/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23408402]

How can Christians recover from this?

[Anonymous No.23408435]

>>23408402
What is this?

[Anonymous No.23408449]

>>23408402
what's there to "recover" from? it's one of my favorite books of the Bible.

[Anonymous No.23408453]

>>23408449
You are a cuck.

[Anonymous No.23408471]

>>23408402
OP how can YOU recover? What rebuttal could you possibly have to the God who set the stars in the sky, who commands the whirlwind, who created Leviathan and Behemoth? How can you, a mere mortal, hope to have a response to so much raw power?

[Anonymous No.23408478]

>>23408471
>God is le real

[Anonymous No.23408481]

>>23408471
God hasn't anything to do with the silly things wrote in this fairy tale fantasy book

[Anonymous No.23408488]

>>23408453
and you are a homosexual, but you can still repent of your wicked homosexual ways.

[Anonymous No.23408496]

>job was the richest best person ever and everyone loved him
>then God decided to be an asshole for no reason
>and then made job have the shittiest life possible
>and all the wise men told job that he was shit and that he must have done something wrong
>and then the child says the only intelligent thing to job
>job asks god what he did wrong
>god waxes indignant and then folds wordlessly
>then job is twice as rich as before
Job is literally a comedy and is written intentionally to be a comedy and Christians thinking that it's a serious literal account or a test of faith thing (99.9% of them) are brain dead dumb. They have no frame of reference for anything historical because 'muh jesus' is an intellectual and spiritual black hole.

[Anonymous No.23408505]

>>23408471
OP absolutely btfo

[Anonymous No.23408528]

>>23408496
filtered. the best part of the Book of Job is simply that we are not entitled to answers, because we are mere mortals. No fedora can reconcile the reminder of their own mortality. Aftet all, who are we to God? that's right, nobodies, which is why the fact he still loves us is all the more an undeserved mercy. the arrogant seething and coping this generates is evident

[Anonymous No.23408538]

suggesting job is a comedy is probably "heresy" but most stories in the Bible are like this where most believers completely misinterpret it.
I think Christianity is a scam and people just show up to Church to meet people.

>>23408528
>HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME I AM GOD YOU ARE NOTHING LESS YOU COWERING WORM
>but what did I do wrong?
>here have your stuff back don't mention this again

It's probably heresy to suggest that God has a personality because he's omniomni and thus the whole universe to the exponential googolplex max and all time backwards double infinity
dumbest religion

[Anonymous No.23408563]

>>23408435
God going on for 70-odd verses proclaiming his world-creating power to a miserable victim who just lost his home, estate, wife and daughters whose body is filled with sores and is scratching them with aloe.

[Anonymous No.23408576]

>>23408538
>HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME I AM GOD YOU ARE NOTHING LESS YOU COWERING WORM
Yes
>but what did I do wrong?
see there it is there, you are projecting a false understanding of something by definition you cannot fully understand. this is arrogance. you are like a child thinking of terms between do right/do wrong, of material benefit vs no material benefit, of this life instead of the next
>here have your stuff back don't mention this again
that's not the reasoning behind how that happened at all, it is because of God's love and Job's faith through it all that God blessed him back anyway even though he did not have to. you are not entitled to any of it

the less one sees God as a does-this-benefit-me-materially genie the more one sees the truth. of course, if one evaluates the book of Job from a strictly material point of view, it won't make sense, because religion doesn't make sense if you are a strict hard materialist. that's the whole idea.

what is truly dumb, is to have too much faith in a fleeting material reality where someday you will die and lose everything (see Book of Ecclesiastes) rather than preparing for the permanent afterlife while you have time

[Anonymous No.23408585]

>>23408402
This is why I find Gnostic worldviews and process theology so fascinating. I find the idea of "what the Accuser twists into ugliness, Christ repairs it to be twice as glorious as it was before it was tainted" reasonably convincing, putting faith as the first and highest principle. However, there's also the notion of God's relationship with humanity being dialectical, God creates beings in His image and likeness that are capable of "wrestling" with Him. While God can certainly wrestle back, we live up to our mandate by being capable of teaching God more about Himself and His Creation. In the context of Christianity, the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ exist as recapitulations on Eve and Adam. Eve's desire for knowledge of good and evil brought painful and chaotic birth; Mary was born into a world with goods and evils but she was the perfect mother without lust, greed, or internal struggle. Adam brought thorns upon humanity's feet through his selfish weakness; Christ wore a crown of thorns as an act of self-sacrificial fortitude. The Law that God gave to Moses was steps beyond the laws of the idolatrous Egyptians and Canaanites but it was still cruel and rigid. The Law that Christ embodied wasn't an abolition or even simply a continuation but an evolution, one based on alive, internal virtues rather than dead, external obedience. I could go on and on.

[Anonymous No.23408593]

>>23408576
this is the religion where they literally buy off sin with sacrifices

[Anonymous No.23408595]

>>23408528
Then what's the point of worshipping God or even attempting to live by his dictates if we can't understand them and aren't entitled to any explanation? Why bother even having a religion at all if God is so distant and ineffable? Just live however you think best and forget all this god nonsense since we can never understand or get it right anyway.

[Anonymous No.23408600]

>>23408576
Cuckold grindset

[Anonymous No.23408634]

>>23408595
>Why bother even having a religion at all if God is so distant and ineffable?
Christianity in its current form only effaces man and nothing else, though the Christian will deny it vehemently.
>God created the world
>for man
>God sacrificed his son
>for man
>God created the angels
>for man
>God created heaven
>for man
>getting eternal paradise only requires you to believe in a few simple facts
>because being a man is so great
Christianity will tell you that the drunk guy throwing rice and beans in the park will sit before the throne of God judging angels if only he believes. They say that only God is great but God also works through whatever person is claiming that and therefore the person is great by proxy. And whoever opposes them is of the devil etc. It absolutely baffles me. God states his principle virtues and guidelines that must be attained for glory.
>no cowards
>no unbelievers
>no liars
>no "pharmakeios"
>no idol worshipers
>must overcome
These basically the last words in the Bible, straight from God who insists that his own words are reliable and true (which may imply a right to question any other parts of the account, surely more heresy). But throw all this shit out, just believe bro.

[Anonymous No.23408662]

>>23408402
Pay more attention to the dialogue between Job and his friends. Also, look up typology. The point is that Job was self-righteous the whole time thinking that mere obedience made him good in the sight of God and prophetically alludes to the necessity of a mediator between God and man

[Anonymous No.23408684]

>>23408634
Why should I believe that the Christians are right about anything if God is so completely unknowable? It doesn't make sense to believe anything.

[Anonymous No.23408687]

>>23408402
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.

[Anonymous No.23408696]

>>23408684
Usually it's only angels that deal with people but such knowledge is lost even though it's in clear print.
>"do not overburden the angels with prayer"
>this means I should pray about what that mean bitch said to me at work lol
Just approach the Bible with the self-interpretation mindset and remember a few things
>sober sane leaders bothered to write the stuff out
>everyone involved swore up and down that it was all true
>"wisdom and poetry" is more poetry than wisdom

[Anonymous No.23408707]

>>23408402
>book of job
>MC is a literal jabroni

[Anonymous No.23408721]

>>23408453
>>23408478
>>23408481
Why do atheists only ever make these little bad faith crotch-goblin statements?

[Anonymous No.23408733]

>>23408721
Atheists aren't interested in debate, they are interested in political soundbites they can replay for marketing engagement.

[Anonymous No.23408769]

Who are you? What are you? Forget ye not, God hath made you, hath given form to thy being, by curdling thy soul milk into thy flesh cheese. You don't get to talk back to your maker. That's it, Mister, you're grounded!

[Anonymous No.23408782]

>>23408769
>>23408687
>>23408471
Mind-broken Christcucks repeating their slogans.

[Anonymous No.23408818]

>>23408782
>repeating their slogans
says the guy who can't go a day without saying "christcuck foreskin iron chariots desert jew god magic sky daddy who hates fags and sorcerors"

[Anonymous No.23408826]

>>23408782
>no u

[Anonymous No.23408828]

>>23408402
>How can fedoras recover from faces of r/atheism?
They can't.

[Anonymous No.23408832]

>>23408818
See how you didn't repeat a slogan after I pointed it out? That means I control your mind.

[Anonymous No.23408837]

>>23408471
you still killed my family to prove something to a demon you control. If you had faith in me you'd not need to test it

[Anonymous No.23408842]

>>23408828
This you?

[Anonymous No.23408850]

>>23408832
>"Christcuck" atheist is an anime faggot
kek

[Anonymous No.23408853]

>>23408837
He is omniscient. He doesn't need to test anything.

[Anonymous No.23408860]

>>23408528
>No see christianity is only pretending to make sense

[Anonymous No.23408864]

>>23408721
Because there is no point in applying rationality to an irrational topic. No matter what the 'god moves in mysterious ways, it's not for you to understand' line will eventually come out (see earlier in this thread). Usually after it's pointed out something doesn't make sense or is self-contradicting. May as well try to convince someone there's an invisible dragon breathing heatless, lightless flame in your bed room.

[Anonymous No.23408869]

>and they laughed at Jesus's followers because they lacked evidence and held untenable positions
let me do a big think and brainstorm all the possible realities
1:
>all the miracle shit is made up and the fedora atheists are correct in their mockery
two-
>all the miracle shit was strictly limited to God himself/Jesus, angels, the twelve apostles, earlier patriarchs, and rival sorcerers in Exodus and others
C)
>All the miracle shit is 100% possible with Jesus calling people to learn it and Christians have embarrassingly enough either lost all knowledge of it, or it must be kept hidden by unilateral convention, or both
place your bets

[Anonymous No.23408875]

>>23408864
It's only "irrational" insofar as you're unwilling to engage with it in good faith. And if it were irrational, you wouldn't be seething about it so hard and would just ignore it.

>>23408869
Miracles from God aren't your personal DnD magic system.

[Anonymous No.23408885]

>>23408842
This you?

[Anonymous No.23408886]

>>23408875
sell your cloak and buy a sword

[Anonymous No.23408892]

>>23408828
>faces of r/atheism

[Anonymous No.23408902]

>>23408892
Why are atheists always so obsessed with "muh space"?

[Anonymous No.23408903]

>>23408875
Thank you for proving my point immediately. Good faith requires both parties are willing to change their minds.

[Anonymous No.23408907]

Are there people who grow up in atheist/secular cultures/families and become christian?
I find it crazy how people still have serious, non-ironic arguments in 2024 about god's existence since I grew up without any of that influence
To me it was always just like santa claus, a thing people pretended to believe to make others feel better

[Anonymous No.23408921]

>>23408907
Humans are efficient creatures. They usually just pick up the ideas from their parents but do even less investigation into the matters. The people that change religions are often motivated by spite towards their parents or upbringing. I have to hand it to secular people, they have much stricter intellectual standards. Christian fundamentalists champion ideas from the 1960s that were recycled from the 1760s and discredited in the 1860s. If they read anything other than the Bible or "save my marriage" books then they would know this.

[Anonymous No.23408930]

>>23408902
Probably because Neil DeGrasse Tyson became popular around the same time as attempting to signal intelligence by tipping a fedora.

[Anonymous No.23408935]

>>23408907
The fact that you believe Santa Claus wasn't real indicates you are a 110 IQ midwit who thinks he's a genius.

[Anonymous No.23408969]

>>23408903
Nta but in what world, you retard? Good faith simply means you'll hear out the other's points and weigh them genuinely. I'd be interested in hearing somebody who doesn't believe in oxygen his reasons why out of curiosity (aka good faith), it doesn't mean that I'm going into it "willing to change my mind"

[Anonymous No.23408971]

>>23408733
Ok let's debate
Why do you believe in God?
>reason via some metaphysical argument for uncaused cause, most perfect being, etc.
I guarantee you that whatever argument of this sort you have justifies at most a sentence of the Nicene creed, and that only by semantics about what "God" means. Where do you get all the rest from?
>reason, via the empirical truth of miracles
Suppose any of these things actually happened. What exactly leads you to presume that this is proof of Christianity, and not an as-yet-unexplained natural occurrence? I doubt that if you saw something unexplained that didn't have christian undertones you would use the experience to revise your theology. The answer, of course, is faith; but that's hardly empirical truth.
>faith
Why have faith in this and not something else? Please be aware that if you justify this with reference to any Christian concepts it's circular

[Anonymous No.23408984]

>>23408930
>>23408892
>>23408828
Just by the mere fact most atheists look like this is enough for me to believe in God. Who the fuck would want to be associated with THAT? lmao

Pic related in that this type of attitude is only remotely possible because of edgy fedora-tipping

[Anonymous No.23408988]

>>23408984
Refer to: >>23408842

[Anonymous No.23408996]

>>23408971
>I guarantee you that whatever argument of this sort you have justifies at most a sentence of the Nicene creed
That would still be enough to stop your atheism. I've noticed that atheists keep trying to distance the arguments of Aquinas (who they've never read), Anselm and Leibniz (who they've never heard of) from more defined theology when none of these were ever used to prove a specific theology in the first place.

Leibniz is enough to convince me that there's a noncontingent origin to the universe. Plato convinces me of the immaterial existence of the soul. I accept Christianity because it's what I was raised in and what my culture is. I can't "logically defend" what I like about my culture, but I can find the negative arguments raised against it unconvincing.

[Anonymous No.23408997]

>>23408984
Do you really want someone to cherrypick fat and ugly christians?
I dont think its hard considering there are lots of pics of Americans online

[Anonymous No.23409004]

>>23408988
I'd bet my house that that wife became a whore because of secularism not Christianity. Likewise for the dude being an absolute fucking loser. This isn't the gotcha you think it is, ledditor.

Tell me again: what made the disgusting, polyamorous, degenerate, furry retards possible?

[Anonymous No.23409009]

>>23409004
>Th—... This is not Christianity. This must be secularism!
She saved three lives according to your creed. Show some respect.

[Anonymous No.23409020]

I'm sure every sane person would look at the universe both at a cosmic scale and at a molecular level and see nothing but a masterful framework. It's natural to assume that this is a created universe and that's a big reason for most people being religious in some form or another. When people are surrounded by artifice and not nature this likely causes more to suspect less divinity. If a person gazes a television every night instead of the stars, why would he ever ponder a god?
The disconnect between the creator of the entire universe and the entity that only guided a few shepherds in the Eastern Mediterranean around is something I would second guess. That's likely a huge argument that agnostics would champion if they found such religious debates remotely palatable.

[Anonymous No.23409021]

>>23408997
Not necessarily fat neckbeards (although it's they're funny ones to point at) but I've almost never met an atheist who I look at and think that I'd be proud to be in their shoes. They're usually coomer consoomers who are proud of it.

The other thing (and the most important thing, at that) is that there is no refutation to the pic I posted. The only reason feminist roastie whores can parade around screeching about their pronouns and how having abortions is empowering is because of "just stop being judgemental, maaaan", which has its roots in secularism. The side you're representing is 100% doomed to implode

[Anonymous No.23409026]

>>23408997
>Do you really want someone to cherrypick fat and ugly christians?
Those pictures were taken, edited to have the quotes, and posted by fedora tippers themselves. The point is that aggressive fedora tipping is cringe and the people who make "How can Christians recover from this?" threads are of the same ilk. You're more than likely to see them making pretty much the same arguments as the quotes (again, because fedoras themselves made these images).

[Anonymous No.23409028]

>>23408971
1. Why does something exist and not nothing? Inertially speaking, this should not be so; nothing should continue to be nothing without external impetus. At best, a singularity should continue to remain a singularity without external impetus, and since the totality of existence being contained within the singularity, this ipso facto renders an outside impetus as transcendent, literally outside the universe. Logically I must assume a prime mover, an entity outside time and space that cannot be contained or defined by either, and which is capable of "conscious" decision to actuate events (such as the transition from nonexistence to existence), for lack of a better word, God.

2. Having assumed this, I must then answer the question "why does thought and consciousness exist instead of pure instinct and reflex?" Since thinking beings exist, I can only deduce that God's motivation in creating them must indicate that he places value upon them. For lack of a better word, let's call this sense of value "love".

3. Since God possesses love, and this love must have existed prior to the creation of the universe in order to have actuated it in the first place, this means that he must have been able to express love before anything else existed besides himself. Since love necessitates the placing of another person's estimation above your own, and since God is indivisible (assuming Aristotelian logic) this means God must be multipersonal; there must be a "father" to love a "son". And since only God exists, yet love also exists, this means love is ipso facto synonymous with God.

4. Since love exists, and is synonymous with God, this means that Christianity - the only religion which states as its articles of faith that NOTHING YOU CAN DO IN LIFE WILL EVER MERIT GOD'S LOVE, but that God offers it freely anyway, BEFORE you start acting "good" - is correct. Love is not "do such and such for me that I like and at the end I might approve of you" - which is the foundation of every other religion, love is "I approve of you, and because of this you yourself want to do such and such for me that I like."

[Anonymous No.23409033]

>>23409009
>She saved three lives according to your creed. Show some respect.
This never fails to make me laugh. When you have nothing else to fall back on, the leddit atheist will say that what HE determines to be chrstianity is the way it is
>acthually being a cheating whore who got tagteamed by Tyrone and Daquain is Christian according to her. Checkmate christcuck!
Just take the L, my dude. You have no defense for your side other than blowing each other with how smart you are about how you don't believe in magic sky daddy

[Anonymous No.23409041]

>>23409033
>the leddit atheist will say that what HE determines to be chrstianity is the way it is
Many such cases. Sad!

[Anonymous No.23409045]

>>23409033
Ready to show some respect now?

[Anonymous No.23409047]

>>23408402
>>>/his/

[Anonymous No.23409051]

>>23409033
FYI, this guy >>23409041used to be obese and used to post pictures of himself still being a fat fuck, lol. Fedoras really love doxxing themselves for some reason. I think it's the lack of self-awareness and want for attention/recognition.

[Anonymous No.23409053]

>>23409041
>a literal "no u" response
Yeah keep digging that hole deeper for yourself, fedora.

[Anonymous No.23409057]

>>23408585
Best post in this thread now, here's a (you)

[Anonymous No.23409060]

>>23409051
>more David

[Anonymous No.23409061]

>>23409028
God is all-powerful and all-knowing and loves me no matter what? This all appeals deeply to me, I'm intrigued.

[Anonymous No.23409062]

>>23409033
They adopted the embryos lol.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/04/21/my-wife-and-i-are-white-evangelicals-heres-why-we-chose-to-give-birth-to-black-triplets/

[Anonymous No.23409065]

>>23409045
KEK

[Anonymous No.23409070]

>>23409053
>>23409051
You guys realize that post was anti-fedora right? I was agreeing with you. Did you guys even look at the picture I posted?

[Anonymous No.23409073]

>>23409045
>>23409062
If the kids grow up Christian, then so what? If you raise secular kids, then your bloodline will probably end after 3 generations.

[Anonymous No.23409076]

>>23409073
These kids are not of their bloodline.

[Anonymous No.23409080]

>>23409070
I confused you for this guy >>23408842 because you replied in chain. I don't usually bother reading his posts and he recycles the same images.

[Anonymous No.23409086]

>>23409045
That doesn't really change much, tho. She might not have been a cheating whore like I thought but there's nothing that God said that explicitly stated that you should race mix. The only time racemixing began to be encouraged was... drumroll... when cultural marxism got a hold of the collective consciousness, aka an ideology that has secularism as its foundation. Which was literally made as an attempt to unseat religious foundations (though, it specifically targeted Christianity in the west)
>inb4 some claim about how we only cherrypick Bible verses
Show me where it says racemixing is encouraged. I'll wait but you'll probably only call me a christcuck again without any other rebuttal

[Anonymous No.23409087]

Does anyone have questions for "the heretic"?
I've read maybe 80% of the uncovered Old Testament apocrypha and many culturally adjacent texts. I should start it on some of the New Testament.

[Anonymous No.23409089]

>>23409061
>and loves me no matter what
Yes. This is true. This does not mean that you can do whatever acts of hedonism and debauchery you like and be saved automatically just because God loves you in spite of your flaws. God gives humans a choice: they can accept his love, or reject it. Oddly enough, many people would rather reject it. Certainly I'm guilty of this. But God will not (to anyone's knowledge, and for this subject Job is a very pertinent topic of discussion) FORCE anybody to love him. They can commit all types of sin and still repent, or they can be uptight, upright, forthright boy scouts and damn themselves.
God says "I love you". In response an individual can say "I love you too." If they mean it, they will do it. Or they can take the easier answer and say "I don't."
There are those who say to God, "Thy will be done." And there are those to whom God says, "THY will be done."

[Anonymous No.23409091]

>>23408853
Clearly he did if he did all this to Job. If he wanted to he could have made a pocket universe or some sort of simulation for the demon.
Not very Jewish then if we think like this

[Anonymous No.23409093]

>>23409070
Sorry anon, you just responded very quickly. I thought you were the other dude and it just blew my mind that they would actually use that as an argument.

[Anonymous No.23409096]

>>23409073
LOL.
Screenshotted.

[Anonymous No.23409098]

>>23409080
Obviously it would have been simpler and more transparent if I had posted this, but it's kind of irrelevant to the topic at hand whereas the former anti-leftist reaction image is universally apropos.

[Anonymous No.23409099]

>>23409062

See >>23409086

[Anonymous No.23409100]

>>23409089
How come people get to repent and be alright but if angels gripe about any policy they're then considered demons?
I like the angels and demons. They seem alright. How come Christianity is so intent on sidelining them?

[Anonymous No.23409101]

>>23409091
>I want SciFi tropes in my ancient literature
Lol

[Anonymous No.23409108]

>>23409073

[Anonymous No.23409110]

>>23409073
yikes

[Anonymous No.23409112]

>>23409086
Race mixing started in south America the moment catholic Spaniards set foot there.
>racemixing is encouraged
No one claims this. Christianity is simply not fundamentally racist as some larpers here pretend it to be.

[Anonymous No.23409113]

>>23409073
>>23409033
Lmao
The mind of a Christcuck in full view.

[Anonymous No.23409116]

You know who I want to listen to? The guy that shuns knowledge because it might interrupt his faith.

[Anonymous No.23409125]

>>23409100
Origen and Gregory of Nyssa both posit that universal reconciliation (i.e. "Can the Devil be saved?") is a hypothetically valid eschatological position, but is controversial owing to the fact that angels are "eternal" beings outside of time and thus their actions, while taken with full free will, are ontologically "once-and-for-all" once made. Since God is infinitely powerful, it is not unreasonable to imagine that he could in fact accomplish the repentance and salvation of the fallen angels, and it would be blasphemous to imply that God's power to do so could be curtailed or circumscribed, but since God is also infinitely just, it becomes theologically difficult - and equally potentially blasphemous - to insinuate that the devil and his followers could get away "scot free" by the abuse of God's mercy and the presumptive eternal nature of their trespass.

Consequently, to avoid any sort of theological controversy, the official statement of orthodox Christian creeds is to state that, at best, the Salvation of the Eternally Damned is something to be hoped and prayed for, but not to be counted on.

[Anonymous No.23409127]

>>23409073
My sides.

[Anonymous No.23409128]

>>23409096
>>23409108
>>23409110
>>23409113
>volunteering to stop babies from getting murdered is bad because they're brown
Some random evangelical woman having empathy doesn't change the fact that atheists are statistically the ones who want to destroy white society btw

[Anonymous No.23409130]

>>23408971
Can you please reply to my post here >>23409028 ?
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.23409134]

>>23409125
But where in the Bible did God or any angels accomplish time travel? It doesn't say anything about that. It looks like it all follows a strict linear order, even with the afterlife and such.
It looks to me that God also has a strict policy of free will for humans and evidently that applies to eternal angels too. Maybe things aren't so complicated.

[Anonymous No.23409152]

You know how every few thousand years someone just doesn't die? Like Enoch and Elijah? Do you think that still happens? Or did Jesus close the door on that? There's angels that appear like humans in the Old Testament. Do you think the two concepts are related?

[Anonymous No.23409160]

>>23409134
>But where in the Bible did God or any angels accomplish time travel?
Define "time travel". When you're an eternal being, you fundamentally exist at all points in time simultaneously, without meaningful distinction between them. In the sense that can you observe and visit all points in time at any "time" and "simultaneously" (in the sense that chronological adjectives have any relevance or meaning outside the realm of time itself), then obviously the angels (fallen and loyal) have virtually total time travel abilities, though lesser than God's of course since they cannot visit the "time" when only God existed before he created them. In point of fact, Jesus (that is to say, The Son) engages in "time travel" at multiple points in the Biblical narrative, appearing in the Old Testament at least twice (in the Burning Bush and to Abraham before the destruction of Sodom), and probably more (some traditions consider the "Angel of the Lord" that wrestled Isaac to be the Son).

[Anonymous No.23409161]

Maybe Enoch and Elijah dodged the "first death." Maybe that's what overcoming or conquering means. I think modern Christians believe too much and think too little.

[Anonymous No.23409164]

>>23409113
He went quiet now.

[Anonymous No.23409170]

>>23409160
Do you have any verses to support these claims that aren't song lyrics? And what's the point of Jesus being born if he didn't need to be? if he was already a human-angel?

[Anonymous No.23409185]

Hold on let me check with Buddha
>being born as a human is very are and it should be prized as an opportunity to be virtuous and ascend to a higher plane
Seems legit

[Anonymous No.23409196]

>>23409170
God the Son wasn't a human being before Christ was born. He became Christ, he took on mortality so that there could be a sacrifice of infinite value to atone for the sins of all men past, present, and future in perpetuity, and to shame all other "gods". Christ's "humiliation" on the cross is indeed his ultimate conquest, because he did what no other "god" deigned to do: to subject himself to the same ignominies man himself must face.
God became man, shouldering the weight of suffering so that on the final day none could say, "Who are you to judge the world? What do you know of injustice, of torture, of sickness, of poverty? How dare you call yourself a righteous God! What do you know of death?" Because he does know. Odin cannot say this, nor can Osiris, or Morrigan, or Apollo, or Mithras, or Ishtar.

[Anonymous No.23409202]

>>23409170
>Do you have any verses to support these claims that aren't song lyrics?
This seems like an extremely disingenuous criterion to use against a religion whose most significant theological statements are contained in a book of literal songs.

[Anonymous No.23409230]

>>23409202
Yeah True God has his thing where he doesn't lie. He likes that in His followers, but they find it too inconvenient.

>>23409202
Maybe they shouldn't have based their entire believes and worldviews on the poetry section

[Anonymous No.23409237]

>>23409196
But the story of Job tells us God doesnt need to answer for anything and he wouldnt give a shit about humans complaining

[Anonymous No.23409264]

>>23409230
meant
>>23409202
for
>>23409196

[Anonymous No.23409269]

>>23409237
>God doesnt need to answer for anything
Nothing that the other anon wrote implies that he does. That's why it's called "grace" not "IOU."

[Anonymous No.23409361]

>>23409073
lmao

[Anonymous No.23409372]

>>23409196
>god killed himself as a flex
lol

[Anonymous No.23409375]

>>23408402
It's the foundational text that the Bible is built around. Likely Sumerian or Atlantean.

[Anonymous No.23409494]

>>23408402
>Job is the hinge that the Christian story turns on
>it is the last time in the old testament that The LORD talks directly to man
>it is vital to listen to his words, therefore
>he basically threatens Job because he is The LORD
>it's the first time He has to reckon with the pain and suffering of His creation and maybe for the first time "feels" mercy as opposed to just practising it
>The LORD changes over the course of the Bible and in Job the seed is planted within him to become truly human, to experience our suffering as one of us
>Job never sins, he is a righteous man and calling The LORD to the mat to explain His actions and never backing down from his righteousness is th only reason The LORD has to respect his position
>Job essentially finishes saying "Your mind is incomprehensible and I am idiot for thinking that You can be reasoned with" thus allowing his continued righteousness in His eyes

https://youtu.be/4c57DM2Kmdc

[Anonymous No.23409501]

>>23409494
If you think like in your picture you don't really believe in God.
And the moment you get Job'd all that shit about God being good for moral behavior and good outcomes is going out of the window.
It's just LARP at this point. Might as well do an epic atheist prayer.

[Anonymous No.23409513]

>>23409028
>literally outside the universe
>Logically I must assume a prime mover
>Which is capable of "conscious" decision to actuate events
Granting that something exterior to the universe created the universe, nothing else can be said on the matter. Theists like to claim it is pure actuality or something similar but there is no reason to suppose this is the case and the thomistic potentiality-action duality is incoherent. And a prime mover needn't be conscious. What you are doing is smuggling in your belief that will/consciousness is a time/space-transcendent metaphysical phenomenon that is identified with pure activity.

[Anonymous No.23409517]

>>23408402
As an indestructible tower of manly courage, thou didst repulse the attacks of Belial and remain unmoved in temptations. Wherefore the Church sings of thee, O wise Job, as a model of endurance and an example of virtue; and she is made radiant by thine exploits.

>"Job is considered the model of patient endurance of every suffering that God sends upon us, and a type of the suffering of the Lord Jesus."
— Prologue of Ohrid

The Book of Job is divided into five parts which consist of the prologue and epilogue written in prose form, and three middle parts expressed in the beauty of language that can be found only in poetry. The dramatic appeal of the life of Job goes beyond the principle of the triumph of good over evil, extending to a philosophy by which the religion of Jesus Christ's followers is enhanced, the simple philosophy which puts real meaning into the commonly quoted phrase 'Keep the faith.' In his many long hours of trial Job had no need to be reminded to keep the faith, but in keeping it he solidified it for all mankind, particularly for those masses of humanity who have had more than their share of suffering. He helps the more fortunate in counting out of their blessings.

[Anonymous No.23409525]

>>23409517
>He suffered like a cuckold
Yeah, we got that already. The question now is how Christcucks can recover from this.

[Anonymous No.23409531]

>>23409525
All humans suffer. To be human is to suffer. Absolutely no one disagrees with his.

[Anonymous No.23409534]

>>23409531
Like a cuckold.

[Anonymous No.23409538]

>>23408453
oh so its a bait thread

[Anonymous No.23409553]

>>23409517
You claim Job is a parable where we are supposed to view the carelessness of God as a framing device and just take away that we should be faithful in hard times. This sort of apologism only work on believers.

[Anonymous No.23409569]

>>23408528
>This character is inconsistent and seems to have no motivation for his actions whatsoever
>NOOOO IT'S LIKE THAT ON PURPOSE
If this was any other book, its fans would be a laughing stock.

[Anonymous No.23409584]

>>23408563
Based God

[Anonymous No.23409638]

>>23409569
Filtered by the sovereignty of God

[Anonymous No.23409650]

>>23409501
It all really happened. It's all real.
The leap of faith is not so big once the meme has played out in your life

All of it.

[Anonymous No.23409651]

>>23408902
It's an idol

[Anonymous No.23409660]

>>23408907
>Are there people who grow up in atheist/secular cultures/families and become christian?
Yeah tons of people, including myself. Remember that Christianity is unique among most religions as its main goal is to convert and evangelize rather than stay an insular ethnic religion.

[Anonymous No.23409673]

>>23409553
The point is that we all are made to surrender to God, either in our destruction or in our obedience. We have the choice.
And Job was already a man both renowned for his unparalleled piety and his great earthly power.

It's like if a perfect and noble king had everything taken away from him but he still refused to surrender his virtue.

[Anonymous No.23409675]

>>23408971
>Why have faith in this and not something else? Please be aware that if you justify this with reference to any Christian concepts it's circular
First of all that's what faith is. A non arbitrary commitment. To say you can pick and choose what to put faith in is a complete misunderstanding of what faith is.
And no, referencing something Christian in an exposition of faith is not circular as it isn't positing an argument but rather a premise. It is propositional.
Your division into these three categories is totally arbitrary. Christianity has always been a mix between faith and reason. There are certain subjective, experiential things, some rational and deductive arguments, and then of the course the added will to believe and passion of belief that all coalesce into the act of faith.
I'm not catholic but John Paul II wrote a great little encyclical titled "Faith and Reason" which is worth reading.

[Anonymous No.23409688]

>>23409073
They mock you because they hate life and existence. It really is a demonic attitude.

[Anonymous No.23409725]

>>23409688
You can talk when you meet your quota of raising 3 negro babies.

[SAGE No.23409734]

STOP REPLYING TO THESE LOW QUALITY, TROLLING THREADS. JUST REPORT AND MOVE ON.

[Anonymous No.23409755]

>>23409501
Outcome independence leads to better outcomes. If you want to win at poker you have to stop trying to win.
Also:
>if you don't follow the rules I just made up you're automatically part of my club of brainwashed commie

[Anonymous No.23409767]

>>23408971
>Why have faith in this and not something else?
Any modern religion of value more or less has the same faith. Where they disagree is portrayal, interpretation, and message (all of which are valid points of disagreement, just as how there are debates in moral philosophy despite them sharing the same faith in metaphysical realism).

e.g. I am Christian rather than Muslim, not because I have faith that my God is the correct one while theirs isn't but because the Christian message of life is more appealing than Islam's tendency towards legalism.

[Anonymous No.23409782]

>>23408402
>How can Christians recover from this?

The answer is in the text itself, the keystone to its meaning:

>I know that my redeemer lives
Job 19:25

[Anonymous No.23409790]

>>23409673
That is the point because you deem it the point. You ignore god being goaded by satan to fuck with Job, and you ignore God specifically targeting Job with misfortune and you conclude that God is unknowable but ultimately good. For those who are not motivated to disregard the unsavoury parts the takeaway from the story is that God is an asshole.

[Anonymous No.23409800]

>>23409534
Kek this has to be bait. Nobody can be this fucking stupid

[Anonymous No.23409815]

>>23408402
The Book of Job is based. The point is that you can't be virtuous only during good times, but also have to be dedicated to virtue during bad times as well. It's an exceptionally straightforward book of the Bible, and I'm surprised people have trouble understanding its message.

[Anonymous No.23409830]

>>23409113
>>23409164
>l-look at the heckin christcucks guys
>no argument
Every single fucking time topkek

>>23409128
That's what kills me, too. They never acknowledge the fact that atheism/marxism/liberalism (whatever you wanna call, it's all the same horseshit) did 1000 times more to buttfuck society into the cesspool it is today than christianity or really any religion ever could, even if it tried. In fact, I'd rather have Hinduism or Islam than the garbage r/atheists call society today.

Notice how they never address that point, either. It wasn't christianity that brought browns to rape your women and have you tolerate it with a smile on your face. Self-hating atheist whiteoids deserve everything they're getting, imo.

[Anonymous No.23409840]

>>23409830
Now, are you going to verbalize your apology or am I going to have to get my cock out?

[Anonymous No.23409846]

>>23409790
You think it's a story about that time God and his pal Satan were hanging out in a courtroom but got bored? This is objectively a form of illiteracy not a difference in how to interpret the text.

[Anonymous No.23409852]

>>23409112
>Race mixing started in south America the moment catholic Spaniards set foot there.
Spanish dudes who hadn't had sex in months decide to take indian pussy? Color me surprised.

>No one claims this. Christianity is simply not fundamentally racist as some larpers here pretend it to be.
And that's relevant because...? Reality is fundamentally "racist". Any attempt to whitewash what race is was brought to the masses by retard leftists and no one else.

[Anonymous No.23409853]

>>23408402
Imagine if there was an evil God that wanted to harm his followers
but also wanted their prayers. This God decided to create a theodicy that would enable this. I fail to see how a theodicy could be more perfect than the theodicy of Job for this purpose.

[Anonymous No.23409855]

>>23409101
>I accept a being outside of space and time would destroy someone's life for a point to prove to a demon in my literature
Is your cat's name niggerman?

[Anonymous No.23409854]

>>23409840
This entire picture is a meme, though. It pretends that global knowledge disappeared after the dark ages, when most of our knowledge of the Greeks and Romans (and of the pagans) was preserved by Christian monks. The Renaissance was directly tied to fleeing Byzantine scholars.

Also, "modern science" did not begin in 1800 AD. Most modern disciplines only came into existence or took their current forms after 1900.

[Anonymous No.23409857]

>>23409846
In debates of faith, he sought to prevail,
But his arguments faltered, to no avail.
In frustration, his demeanor turned sour,
Resorting to insults in his darkest hour.

[Anonymous No.23409863]

>>23409854
Keyword: preserved. Nothing new and significant was discovered or invented.

[Anonymous No.23409866]

>>23409840
>>23409857
You can't be stupid enough to think you're debating or engaging with anything.

[Anonymous No.23409869]

>>23409840
>posts pretty color graph with literally no references other than a dead website
Lol. Lmao even.

Yes yes I get it, atheism is le heckin saviour of human intellect! There's no way around it that atheism will truly bring back the white race and stop the incoming flood of mexicans and pakis! You sure are doing a lot by telling people that morals are le personal and that they should do whatever they want as long as it "doesn't hurt anyone". Here's your updoot.

[Anonymous No.23409870]

>>23409863
>Nothing new and significant was discovered or invented
Gunpowder, paper, algebra, metallurgy, the stirrup and crop rotation were all developed during the "Christian Dark Ages."

Now shift the goalposts again

[Anonymous No.23409871]

>>23409815
I totally accept that, but the ending isn't that misery doesn't have reason it's that you can't question misery when there is direct cause.

[Anonymous No.23409872]

>>23409863
What the fuck are you talking about retard? Even the foundations of the scientific method were being developed by Christian and Muslim theologians. Natural theology, the idea that you get closer to God by observing the rules of nature started trending around 1000AD.

[Anonymous No.23409879]

>>23409866
I wish the Finnish and Koreans could just have gotten along.

[Anonymous No.23409880]

>>23409871
>it's that you can't question misery when there is direct cause.
The personal adversity the spoiled commie child frames as a great metaphysical evil is just a part of the complex and beautiful fabric of creation. The monsters are part of that fabric and commie faggots don't matter.

[Anonymous No.23409884]

>>23409870
>>23409872
These people are responsible for the recent historical revisionism of the Dark Ages. No one takes their academic representatives seriously.

[Anonymous No.23409887]

>>23409846
I think it has more significance that a framing device that can be discarded. There is similar story with the same moral about the most unlucky man in the world but Job specifically has God ruining his life for a petty reason. When viewed holistically the point of the story is that God is responsible for everything terrible that happens to you and you deserve it and should still be grateful to god.

[Anonymous No.23409890]

>>23409840
>or am I going to have to get my cock out?
Who would've thought atheists were raging faggots?

[Anonymous No.23409895]

>>23409890
Only the one getting his buck broken is a homosexual. You'd know this if you started with the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.23409901]

>>23409734
You're right, my mistake for taking this obviously stupid nonsense seriously.

[Anonymous No.23409908]

>>23409854
>>23409869
>>23409890
Theist Status: Broken

[Anonymous No.23409912]

>>23409884
What are you talking about retard? You can't even make your stale trolling slightly interesting?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX_r9R98DiY
>>23409887
>I think it has more significance that a framing device that can be discarded.
Because you're illiterate. The significance of the "court" and placing the story in no specific land are both completely clear. If you give even the slightest bit of charity, like 1% of what faggots like you give buddhists texts the meaning should be very obvious.
>Job specifically has God ruining his life for a petty reason
This is not how the story was ever read or related to others, meaning this version only exists in the minds of commie propagandists like you. Some of the men who put this story in the collection of books known as the Bible even talk about the story. When they do it never bears any resemblance to your deranged shit.

[Anonymous No.23409920]

>>23409912
>That YouTube video

[Anonymous No.23409932]

>>23409840
Damn...

[Anonymous No.23409935]

>>23409840
Christcucks ETERNALLY BTFOd

[Anonymous No.23409943]

>>23409912
The meaning is very clear to me: God is responsible for everything and we must hope that what he does is with our best interest at heart, regardless of how it appears. There is no consensus in the talmud or midrash on Job; ignoring the framing is your take, not a canonical one.

[Anonymous No.23409946]

If God is omniscient why would he need to test anyone? That’s a pretty major plothole

[Anonymous No.23409948]

Duke Dennis rizzing up a griddy grimace shake

[Anonymous No.23409952]

>>23409908
>Homosexuality IS atheism
Lol

[Anonymous No.23409956]

>>23409952

[Anonymous No.23409963]

>>23409956
>they look happy
I don't get it. Oh wait, it's supposed me make me mad because you're projecting that everyone is as lonely and pathetic as you are!

[Anonymous No.23409967]

>>23409963

[Anonymous No.23409971]

>>23409943
>ignoring the framing is your take
Ignoring the actual framing and replacing it with childish resentment is your braindead take. The framing explicitly establishes the setting as the court of God, where the rules are decided. The theme that it's an exploration of the rules of reality is maintained through every part.

[Anonymous No.23409977]

>>23409971
You will never convince anyone.

[Anonymous No.23409979]

Gnosticism is the only correct answer.

[Anonymous No.23409983]

>>23409967
>people experiencing happiness on their wedding day is supposed to make others seethe
You have some serious mental problems, bro.

[Anonymous No.23409984]

>>23409983

[Anonymous No.23409986]

>>23409977
>convince
You're such a predictable fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.23409987]

>>23409984
>fedora tipper thinks he can trigger people with the happiness of others
Keep telling on yourself, bro.

[Anonymous No.23409988]

>>23409967
Kafkatrap.

The most Christian countries are the most conscious of their ethnos. And many times the Christian faith itself has preserved peoples, such as the Assyrians, Copts, and Greeks.

[Anonymous No.23409993]

>>23409988
Without Darwin your skin would be brown.

[Anonymous No.23410004]

>>23409993
How would that have worked?

[Anonymous No.23410032]

>>23409920
>the physical medieval artefacts in that 70s documentary by a respected historian don't exist
>saying they do exist is historical revisionism based on 21st century retard burger culture wars

[Anonymous No.23410100]

>>23410004
He's trying to troll, retard. Notice how he ignored me as soon as you took the bait?

[Anonymous No.23410152]

>>23410100
He tells himself he's a "troll" but that's a form of cope. His brain produces these posts, it reflects who he is, a communist subversive trying to undermine all rational thought and all forms of productive communication.

[Anonymous No.23410231]

>>23408402
>how do christians recover from the realization that despite however clever and smart they may be as human beings, they, with their mortal mind, cannot begin to comprehend the almighty majesty and wisdom of the Creator.

Gird up thy loins, OP.

[Anonymous No.23410328]

>>23409971
>Childish resentment
Job is a disturbing book, theres a reason why a lot of rabbis and even posters in this thread try to cast Job as being flawed. The point is that Job is the very best of humanity, and that is nothing to God. I don't resent Job but I appreciate the horror of the story.

[Anonymous No.23410422]

Thread died when the owning of Christcucks become more than the entrance of new Christcucks.

[Anonymous No.23410449]

>>23410328
>God is responsible for everything and we must hope that what he does is with our best interest at heart, regardless of how it appears.
Yes.
>The point is that Job is the very best of humanity, and that is nothing to God.
>Job specifically has God ruining his life for a petty reason
Childish ego nonsense that contradicts the point above and the idea of God being loving, merciful and offering grace. Saying God did something for petty reasons is applying your petty resentments from daily life to a context beyond space and time.

[Anonymous No.23410482]

>>23410422
You will never convert a single Christian to atheism in your entire life.

[Anonymous No.23410495]

>hebrew philosopher writes a story about the cold indifference of the universe using god and satan as yin/yang descriptors of the polarity of man's experience thereof
>is misunderstood for 3000 years because midwits take it literally and think he was alluding to an actual God

the whole point of the story is, there is no god who cares for you, its just the cold black emptiness of space

[Anonymous No.23410538]

>>23410495
>hebrew
Pre-hebrew.
>polarity
Only one pole, the satan just offers the challenge of the thought experiment.
>space
The "heavens" originally from astrology developed into an idea of a timeless realm that contains the seed of creation and experience itself or "qualia". Saying humans are created in the "image of God" is saying we're not p-zombies.

[Anonymous No.23410710]

>>23408996
>Plato convinces me of the immaterial existence of the soul
How?

[Anonymous No.23411049]

>>23409884
>Moving from shifting the goalposts to outright denial
So this is the famed logical prowess of the atheist

[Anonymous No.23411528]

>>23408471
>might makes right
Why even bother with religion?

[Anonymous No.23411579]

>>23410449
It being a petty reason is not just framing. Or "allegorical to evoke a court" or whatever you said. If God was justified in his actions in the sense we would expect a man to be, then there would be the exact same problem that there would be by having Job be guilty. The point is that God does what he wants and we ascribe love and goodwill to it regardless of how horrific it seems. Trust the plan!

[Anonymous No.23412142]

>>23411528
Because it defines whose might. Duh.

[Anonymous No.23412706]

>>23411579
Absolute satanic inversion.

[Anonymous No.23412714]

>>23412142
Yeah except god exercises power at random so following him or not makes no difference.

[Anonymous No.23412925]

>>23412706
You just have to have faith. The problem of evil is imo the best argument against a triple-O god and Job makes for a shoddy theodicy. The NT makes a better case but the OT suffers for it.

[Anonymous No.23412931]

>>23408721
>(((atheists)))

[Anonymous No.23412984]

>>23409501
I almost died last year from an autoimmune response my body had to a foreign mass in my body. It was beyond dark and scary to be faced with death and to not know whether I'd be alive or whether I'd ever be the same again, physically and mentally. All my dreams, all my loves, all my hard work, everything was thrown out the window in the span of a few days and I spent the next month and a week in hospitals, having seizures and not being able to tell which day was which or where I was. I became closer to God than ever before, even when everything in my mind was telling me that it was all hopeless and that there was an abyss on the other side.

You see? I can also pull opinions and anecdotes to "prove you wrong". I can just say your LARPing about your atheism because you're coping with the fact that there might be an all-powerful being and you feel misunderstood :(

None of my shit about God being good for moral behavior went out the window despite me being in one of the bleakest moments in my life. If anything it brought me closer to my faith. There are just some things you will not understand until you've experienced them yourself or open your mind to them. I was an edgy fedora tipper as well, for about 6 years and swore I would never believe in God again. And yet here I am defending theism. Return to God, anon. I promise He'll welcome you with open arms.

[Anonymous No.23412995]

>>23408721
Women can't engage in hypotheticals. Which is no surprise, since atheists are some of the most low T men I've ever met, across the board.

[Anonymous No.23413018]

>>23408402

>For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

>For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?

How will Christians recover from this?

Wasn't the whole point of the resurrection and the creation of the new heaven and earth that the only abode for mankind is the Earth?

[Anonymous No.23413054]

>>23412925
"The problem of evil" is the satanic mindset. It doesn't oppose God since nothing can do that, it makes the adversary your ruler / lord / god.
That everything doesn't submit to your will isn't a "problem". The giant sea monster that might eat you isn't a "problem". It's integral to what makes creation beautiful and good.

[Anonymous No.23413063]

>>23408528
You'd think a perfectly just and good god would be more transparent.

[Anonymous No.23413073]

>>23413063
silly atheist you should know that only Jews and everyone who serves them will be saved

[Anonymous No.23413083]

>>23413073
I'm not an atheist. I just think god is a faggot and I'd prefer to serve the Anti-Christ.

[Anonymous No.23413084]

>>23408595
Why do parents not resort to logical and inductive reasoning to teach their children? Why do they not just let the children live however they think best and forget all the nonsense of whatever sophistry they are forced to abide?

[Anonymous No.23413093]

>>23413084
>God is actually a person just like my absent father!
nigger tier

[Anonymous No.23413099]

>>23413063
>If I'm not omniscient that means God is le bad
Always the same braindead shit.

[Anonymous No.23413108]

>>23413099
A little more knowledge about god =/= omniscience
but nice try with the word games retard. the Jews taught you very well

[Anonymous No.23413122]

>>23413093
not the point at all made there, nigger tier iq

[Anonymous No.23413135]

>>23413122
you're making an analogy between God and a parent. good parents are patient enough to demonstrate logical reasoning before using other coercive methods on their children. God is much more powerful than a parent and yet, he acts like a bad absent parent by not doing what a good parent does. Hence, either your analogy is shit or you're saying god is like a nigger parent. thus, why I said your argument was nigger tier. simple as m80

[Anonymous No.23413138]

>>23413054
I was not raised in the faith, the problem of evil is something that occurs naturally to anyone looking from outwards in at a religion. There is a reason why virtually every religion grapples with it in some way, and in some religions the problem of evil is at the centre of its beliefs. Saying its satanic to question these things is retarded and is exactly why we have people identifying as Satanists in the first place.

[Anonymous No.23413140]

>>23413083
Good good *rubs hands*

[Anonymous No.23413150]

>>23413140
>prots are the largest donators outside of jews to israel/israeli interest groups
right...

[Anonymous No.23413152]

>>23413135
No, I was making an analogy of a child's intellectual capacity to apprehend inductive reasoning, practical cause effect relation, social and ethical behavior, etc. and our intellectual capacity to apprehend the nature of reality.

[Anonymous No.23413160]

>>23413152
A child develops intellectually faster if they're challenged by their parent by being exposed to logical reasoning earlier. Hence, good parents always start with logical reasoning when teaching before being coercive. FFS this is not hard.

[Anonymous No.23413167]

>>23413160
There is no hope of development to the decisions you have to make in order to correct the actual child's mischiefs, damages. No parent can act logically with the child's beating another child, they will not stop by means of argument, you fucking retard. Leave this fucking board and experience life for once, because I don't believe you are as dense as not to get this.

[Anonymous No.23413183]

>>23413167
>No parent can act logically with the child's beating another child
this is a learned behavior from parents fighting
again, you're relying on parents being nigger tier to make your analogy work

[Anonymous No.23413186]

>>23413108
>Good = transparent and obedient to me
>>23413138
If you say x must follow from y then all that's needed to prove you wrong is being able to imagine a reasonable example where that wouldn't be the case.
Every variation on the "problem of evil" can be resolved if you imagine the possibility that you were omnipotent and chose to know what it's like to be limited flesh. That doesn't mean what really happened is that simple but it demonstrates the logic is braindead. This is part of the good news the imagery of Christ on the cross used to convey before people became burger robots.
Identifying with the flesh, the local ego trying to place its judgement above the universal is the story of satanic rebellion. Resentment towards God can justify anything and the goal of trying to align with the ideal is lost.

[Anonymous No.23413190]

>>23413150
Yes very very good, oi vey the the day you were born!

[Anonymous No.23413197]

>>23413183
Yes, the child will understand concepts like right and wrong and your argument will sound cogent while the child is beating another one, demanding something she really wants. Children are not driven by sensation in detriment of reason. Not at all. You are not a dumb nigger. I don't even need to keep trying here.

[Anonymous No.23413198]

>>23408902
I'm a human-supremacist and believe the world is ours to conquer, down to the last reaches of space

[Anonymous No.23413206]

>>23413197
that's not what I said, but you can continue strawmanning if it makes you feel better.

[Anonymous No.23413213]

>>23412714
God is almighty and acts according to his will which is also characterized by good and love. humans can't ever comprehend pure will by definition because they're limited to their potential, they know how they can achieve good and love by following Jesus who is God himself read the book

[Anonymous No.23413217]

>>23413206
You think that is strawmanning because you kept moving from the initial point of my first post >>23413084 to something completely different, implying the whole process of education from child age to adult age. Besides that, even this education and logic are forceful in that they constrain our desires, make us suffer in other particular ways, so that we need to adapt as much as we must need to obey.

[Anonymous No.23413287]

>>23413186
Are you trying to say that because it is impossible to disprove the claim that "the current existence is the best possible state of affairs god could give us" the problem of evil isn't valid? I am not making an argument against God, I am saying that the reasonable interpretation of the Job story is that God is responsible for everything that happens and we must hope that he is good. This interpretation is perfectly compatible with the hope that this is truly the best possible world. Personally, I think it is absurd and that the problem of evil should be enough to convince anyone who isn't too far gone in the faith.

[Anonymous No.23413288]

>>23413083
>I'd prefer to serve the Anti-Christ.
You don't even know what you're saying when you're saying that. It makes me pity you, desu. The new world order, the patents for neuralink, the messianic prophecies that ((they)) are trying to fulfill in real time... Whether or not you believe in God, it's pretty clear that the writing is on the wall of the direction the elites want to take the world towards.

This is the "free-thinker", btw, that will probably eat the slop that the zog-approved masses peddle when shit starts to hit the fan on the world stage. Let that sink in to anyone on the fence of whether they are atheists or theists.

[Anonymous No.23413308]

>>23413138
>and is exactly why we have people identifying as Satanists in the first place.
completely untrue. Satanists become satanists because they are coomers at heart. Satanist doesn't mean you literally worship satan necessarily, just that you worship yourself. Religion does more to try and mitigate the evil of men than "OMG we need more troons in our media slop franchises!!" that satanists unironically stand behind. Why do you think the fags, feminists, satanists all stand behind the same flag?

[Anonymous No.23413309]

>>23408528
>God is an infinitely complex and unfathomable entity
>And I have personal knowledge that he cares about us and loves us
Mind-blowing how theists operate

[Anonymous No.23413314]

>>23413309
Only God can know himself and we all have sparks of God in us that is why we can know him

[Anonymous No.23413323]

>>23413308
>>23413308
Satanism (the movement we are discussing, not the occult larpers) is a contrarian movement of bible-belt atheists. Acting like questioning the nature of evil is satanic is precisely what motivates them to act under the Satanist umbrella. And social-justice types are stupid but at least they do a good job fighting for the separation of church and state. I will take Hunter Schaeffer and the tranny in the barbie movie over the slide into a theocracy

[Anonymous No.23413334]

>>23413309
Your words are the product of neurons throwing vapid electrical currents through your fingers for you to type. Your thoughts come from the material, therefore your opinion is invalid on whether God gives us personal knowledge or not. Anything you say is literally useless so why are you even talking about this?

[Anonymous No.23413343]

>>23413323
>Acting like questioning the nature of evil is satanic is precisely what motivates them to act under the Satanist umbrella
I'm the other anon, I never said questioning the nature of evil is satanic. My point was that even if you're larping or a bible-belt atheist (aka larping lite) you're still operating under a "satanist" mindset, i.e. my cooming is the most important thing in the world.

>And social-justice types are stupid but at least they do a good job fighting for the separation of church and state. I will take Hunter Schaeffer and the tranny in the barbie movie over the slide into a theocracy
Kek that tells you everything you need to know about the people we're dealing with. You literally just proved my point

[Anonymous No.23413354]

>>23413334
>material world is le bad!
Your Gnostic origins run deep brother.
Also the quads gods have abandoned you.

[Anonymous No.23413357]

>>23413314
I will grant for the sake of the argument that the overlap between us and god is "the good" or "love", in place of anything else. Lets say it is the love of a parent to a child; I don't experience that at all from God. I could phone my Mom and ask "Mom do you love me" and across any distance I would get an answer that would fill my heart. I ask "God do you love me" and I don't feel anything. You could claim Im just not receptive to him, but isn't Gods love infinitely greater or something? You could claim Gods love is conditional in us believing in him, but my parents love is unconditional. I just don't feel anything when I try to interact with God, so it is absurd to believe that this Infinite Love is so much lesser than what two very finite people have unconditionally given me.

[Anonymous No.23413369]

>>23413309
God is not limited by greed or emotion of any kind he's beyond that by definition, if he shows love to humans it's as pure as it gets, and he'd shown love the Bible is why we have morality like we know now, "natural law" translates to the will of God because actual nature favours biological determinism than idealistic natural order, therefore God is literally any foundation of ethics that we can outline. God also gives us the best reality possible according to his plan, wrong is worse than right and God is all-powerful so it follows that God is all-good and also all-love because he can't be wrong

[Anonymous No.23413380]

>>23413369
The Bible is not the origin of right living, the New Testament echoes the truths of the Gita.

[Anonymous No.23413384]

>>23413354
I didn't say it's bad, retard. I'm mocking your own world view. Well, I'm assuming it is that world view, since atheists don't seem to engage past anything that's slightly not material.

Also love how you didn't even deny it kek your words mean nothing and any argument you make is invalid. Why do your thoughts and arguments hold any weight against anything if they're coming from your brain cells, which are just the brain's natural action? How are you not deceiving yourself into thinking you're smarter than you are?

[Anonymous No.23413387]

>>23408435
I know what it's not: it's not /lit/

[Anonymous No.23413392]

>>23408402
Still inferior to, "The Book of Jeb!"

[Anonymous No.23413394]

>>23413334
Tiresome argument. Define validity, define utility. You approach everything with christian metaphysics and thus cant comprehend any other approaches.
>>23413343
Were you arguing about the interpretation of Job or just chiming in on the satanist stuff? There have been plenty of hedonic movements prior to Satanism and I dont think that satanists are necessarily hedonic. The Satanists can best be understood in terms of there origin, as bible-belt atheists, and their actions, which are largely political. In other words, contrarians fighting against annoying christians

[Anonymous No.23413396]

>>23413287
>God is responsible for everything that happens and we must hope that he is good
Is not the same as saying.
>God does what he wants and we ascribe love and goodwill to it regardless of how horrific it seems.
Deluding ourselves isn't good. We should explore ideas like the possibility we're in a prison etc. When I do I keep feeling gratitude towards this supposed jailor, this appeal to a feeling is an appeal to biological conditioning that's as valid as yours. I can navigate this place and it's full of insane beauty including in the tragedies. At the end of Job God says Job was right to question and interrogate God even though Job can never understand what he's questioning.
>Are you trying to say
"Evil" is just adversity. You're complaining about not being God. That's not some logical dilemma, it's you refusing to question your own biological conditioning.

[Anonymous No.23413397]

>>23413384
So if I had a soul suddenly everything I believe or spoke would be valid? That's zrazy!

[Anonymous No.23413402]

>>23413369
This is a Brawndo Has Electrolytes situation.
>We know God is all good because he made a good world
>Well actually theres a lot of horrible stuff, so we must have faith that the world is good
>Our faith is warranted because we know that God is good
Beyond the stupid argument, the Mosaic code is insane and very rightly not the basis for any moral or legal system, and the 5/10 commandments with actual moral significance are some of the most common moral principles in amy community. OT morality was not exceptional.

[Anonymous No.23413405]

>>23413394
>I dont think that satanists are necessarily hedonic.
Sure they aren't. It's just a coincidence that femcels, faggots and BLM troopers all parade the same flag. I don't disagree they're political but you only need to see what they're pushing politically to see what it is about.

[Anonymous No.23413414]

>>23413288
lil bro doesn't understand that accelerationism is unstoppable

[Anonymous No.23413416]

>>23413402
>theres a lot of horrible stuff
Name one.
>cancer babies
Are based warriors of Christ and blessed by the Valkyries for dying in battle.

[Anonymous No.23413418]

>>23413394
>Tiresome argument.
And you saying I approach everything with christian metaphysics isn't? You don't have a rebuttal because you know it's true. The logical conclusion is that nothing you say has any validity whatsoever.

>>23413397
No, it wouldn't make everything you say valid. What are you even trying to say?

[Anonymous No.23413421]

>>23413396
They are the same, you are just myopic. Personally I also appreciate the world and am happy to live in it but there are also people in unfathomable suffering. God interceded for Elisha when children made fun of his hairline, as wonerful as this world is it is absurd to imagine it as the creation of a triple-o deity

[Anonymous No.23413424]

>>23413414
Well, won't disagree with you on that. I was just pointing out that sucking the big pharma neuralink cock is a much more disgraceful way to go than to at least reject it. Saying you're willing to serve the Antichrist means you're willing to take it up the ass by whoever decides to microchip us

[Anonymous No.23413425]

>>23413416
>Name one
Thalidomide babies with cancer and also they are retarded

[Anonymous No.23413426]

>>23413421
This post implies you don't understand the difference between sincerely thinking and lying to yourself.

[Anonymous No.23413427]

>>23413418
The real question is what are you trying to say? You are only stating rhetorical questions you aren't actually saying anything. Why wouldn't I be able to trust my brain cells? Why wouldn't I be able to trust my senses? How do you know that you actually exist? How do you know this isn't one collective dream? Bold of you to assume I was an atheist and bold of you to assume I would ever call you a Christian.

[Anonymous No.23413437]

>>23413357
God doesn't talk to you just like everyone else, you love your mom and dad just like everyone else. You guys need to get over yourselves because I have no idea why you are sharing this or what anyone in this thread is saying. It's like people here are missing parts of their brains and replacing it with ideas and concepts. Think about yourself first. Experience and originality come from thinking rhetorically. You're more important than all these historical ideas and concepts. You're more important than love

[Anonymous No.23413443]

>>23413426
Well Im an atheist but I would imagine the whole point of belief is to simultaneously hold something as true while acknowledging you lack the grounds to affirm your belief.

[Anonymous No.23413444]

>>23413427
I was writing a whole reply and then I realized you're probably not even the anon I was addressing in the first place because the other dude literally said I only used Christian metaphysics. Again, I'm not sure what your angle is

[Anonymous No.23413446]

>>23413425
You love stories about thalidomide babies with cancer who are also retarded. All our stories and games are about that. The post is an aesthetic appeal but you're lying to yourself about what aesthetics you actually seek out. Life is a tragedy. That's why we love it, why you love complaining and why you chose it when you were a platonic form in eden.

[Anonymous No.23413449]

>>23413444
Trips wasted on nothing!

[Anonymous No.23413454]

>>23413443
>you lack the grounds to affirm your belief
Is different from holding a belief that doesn't match what you think you know. Ascribing love to something that all your senses and rationality are telling you seems horrific is different from seeing what seemed horrific before from a different perspective.

[Anonymous No.23413460]

>>23413449
Seethe and dilate, tranny

[Anonymous No.23413477]

they just choose to believe whatever they happen to like the idea of

[Anonymous No.23413487]

>>23413460

[Anonymous No.23413489]

>>23413460
well thats not very chrisitan

[Anonymous No.23413490]

>>23413437
God doesn't love you like a parent does but Gods love should be recognizable as love. Otherwise you must simply trust that it is love, the whole point of the discussion. The anon I responded to said you are able to recognize Gods love because a bit of it is in you, so I looked at the purest form of love I know and failed to see something similar that is coming from God. Either God loves us in a recognizable way, somehow bypassing me, or he loves us in his Mysterious Ways, which goes back to believing God is good for the sake of believing God isngood

[Anonymous No.23413499]

>>23413454
Well I was under the assumption that when I said
>God is responsible for everything that happens and we must hope that he is good
that there are things in our world that are truly horrific and so
>God does what he wants and we ascribe love and goodwill to it regardless of how horrific it seems.
is equivalent to the first statement. The problem of evil isnt that you personally are being wronged by God, it is there are things in this world that are so horrific that a triple-o god wouldnt permit it.

[Anonymous No.23413525]

>>23413490
I literally felt a crazy non-sexual pleasure earlier, like an angel was touching the tip of my spine. I was writhing around in ecstasy on my bed and fell asleep for a while. I just remembered that but I've never felt something that intense before. But I've had week long fits of ecstasy before thinking about Mary. I wrote this out because I 'felt' God standing over me. My whole point is that you have to think yourself first. A big part of Christianity is developing a whole central idea of character and 'choosing'. Being loved is nothing compared to loving such as being given is nothing compared to giving. Like Nathan under the fig tree, God's the only one that saw him there. That's what Nathan loved, being under the fig tree. That was Nathan's character. 'what good can come from Galilee?' 'You don't know me'. You have to develop that type of whole central idea of character first. I recommend Sex and Character by Otto Weininger

[Anonymous No.23413546]

>>23413525
Without going down the rabbithole of the validity of religious experience, its insane that you claim the love between parent and child as modally different than Gods love, and then claim that the ecstatic experience you had laying down in bed is Gods love. Doesn't that seem perverse?

[Anonymous No.23413581]

>>23413546
Idk I don't think giving someone non-sexual pleasure is that modally different than people in a family hugging each other or whatever. I think giving someone real non-sexual pleasure is more of a testament to love than just saying 'I love you'. I think love between family can also be especially selfish and ties in more with what I'm saying, the parents will most likely love you the more you represent them or how handsome and strong you are. The son is the pride of the family. The love that you're talking about is more like Superman with his old and weakening parents or something. That's the most parents can love a child but there's something sad and wrong there. Real Christian family life is probably best expressed by Ibsen, Peer Gynt. Weininger also talks about something similar
>It would be easy to understand why the family (in its biological not its legal sense) plays a larger role amongst the Jews than amongst any other people; the English, who in certain ways are akin to the Jews, coming next. The family, in this biological sense, is feminine and maternal in its origin, and has no relation to the State or to society. The fusion, the continuity of the members of the family, reaches its highest point amongst the Jews. In the Indo Germanic races, especially in the case of the more gifted, but also in quite ordinary individuals, there is never complete harmony between father and son ; consciously, or unconsciously, there is always in the mind of the son a certain feeling of impatience against the man who, unasked, brought him into the world, gave him a name, and determined his limitations in this earthly life. It is only amongst the Jews that the son feels deeply rooted in the family and is fully at one with the father. It scarcely ever happens amongst Christians that father and son are really friends. Amongst Christians even the daughters stand a little further apart from the family circle than happens with Jewesses, and more frequently take up some calling which isolates them and gives them independent interests.

[Anonymous No.23413641]

>>23413581
You sound more materialistic than the atheists. You equivocate love with pleasure (nonsexual). I will assume you don't mean drugs, which are much more akin to ecstatic states than love, but to reduce love to pleasure is to look at it in the most materialistic way, of the dopamine from skinship, the desire that underpins ours actions, the social affirmation of being valued. Theists feel like they can do this because to them love is something supernatural and so they can remove everything else and keep this purer form of love. But as we have discussed, this pure love is nothing, it doesn't exist; in distilling the thing the theist has destroyed it. Love is ultimately reducable to some primitive pleasure and social principles but that is insufficient to create the phenomenon of love, which is inextricable from the shared past and present of two individual people. God's love is love in kind if not in degree and therefore should be recognizable as such, not as vulgar pleasure.

[Anonymous No.23413687]

>>23413641
I've always loved in The Idiot when Myshkin says the same thing to Ippolit "but I've always been a materialist". What you mean is philosophical aspiration and how it orders a healthy and centered mind. It probably is pretty important for religion to try to maintain that just for general health of people but Christianity clashes against that type of safeguarding in particular. You can't put up these safeguards for other people and make them drink the chalice. That's why philosophically I'm a Kantian. Philosophy is grounded in man and woman, man is the something, woman is the nothing. It's all materialistic and love grows out of that self-love or want of love, or being in love with yourself. The type of metaphysical love you're talking about has always been 'won' through sentiment, taste, choosing something first.

[Anonymous No.23413706]

>>23413687
>>23413641
>>23413581
>>23413546
>>23413525
>>23413499
>>23413490
>>23413489
>>23413487

G-d's not real. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.23413720]

>>23413706
>None the less, it would be wrong to state that the Jew is an enemy of Christ, that he represents the anti-Christ; it is only that he feels no relation with Him. It is strong-minded Aryans, malefactors, who hate Jesus. The Jew does not get beyond being bewildered and disturbed by Him, as something that passes his wit to understand.

[Anonymous No.23413780]

Cognitive dissonance is actually very easy for most people

[Anonymous No.23413874]

>>23408402
Recover from what? The story is one of the most important in the bible.


>I was good why was I punished
You weren't. Bad things happen to good people and not as a result of some hidden sin of theirs, but because suffering is our lot.

>But that sucks
Yes, but it's also true. Unequivocally, provably true. This is one of the most important lessons in the bible. Christianity and Judaism, this entire gestalt tradition, are very open about the fact that the world is hostile and cruel and that the only way to account for this AT ALL is that God genuinely does not consider human suffering to be particularly onerous or improper. It would be easy to lie, to simply not tell the story, or to gloss over it by having him bring back Job's family intact or have it all just be a vision but that isn't what happened. You are left with the immense, stark horror of someone losing everything through no fault of his own, and regaining it through no virtue of his own except blind faith.

What is this story trying to tell you, Anon? What are you missing that everyone else isn't, and if your answer is "they're retarded sheep" congratulations, you're a fucking Hylic.

[Anonymous No.23413875]

I believe God is real but I don't believe he's perfect.

[Anonymous No.23413893]

>>23413706
It wouldn't really matter of he weren't, since the natural world appears to be indistinguishable from God's behavior anyway.

Really the accusation here is that the Christians and for that matter the Jews are WAY smarter than they actually are, which is kind of funny when in actuality the character of Christian theology should make it IMMENSELY evident that no Church that has ever existed is organized and cunning enough to affect any sort of mass deception. Moreover it should be very stark and obvious that Christianity is inextricably European in its character, for the simple fact that Western Theology is indistinguishable from the rest of Western philosophy.

I commented not long ago--and will say again--that every discussion about atheism and Christianity and truth or lack thereof takes on the character of 15th century clerical spats, and that the critics of Christianity, Dawkins et all, should be considered members of the clergy because they fulfill such a timeless role in the religion that is absent in all others.

[sage No.23413989]

>>23409375
Lol. He fell for the Luciferian revisionisms. Normies have no chance against them.

[Anonymous No.23413995]

>>23409901
>enables his own position to be interpreted as the "obviously stupid nonsense"
Kek. Low IQs...

[Anonymous No.23414174]

>>23413084

Indeed. Why?

[Anonymous No.23414186]

>>23408528

You could likewise attempt to converse with a monkey and take the monkey's lack of answers as indicative of the monkey's superiority.

[Anonymous No.23414194]

>>23414186
neither is God a monkey, Mr. Scopes

[Anonymous No.23414206]

>>23414194

Has he answered you that he is or he is not a monkey?

[Anonymous No.23414361]

>>23413489
>le you should be the Christian I say you should be
Refer to >>23413460 once again

[Anonymous No.23415247]

Not /lit/, now piss off.