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/lit/ - Literature

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23384301 No.23384301 [Reply] [Original]

How does /lit/ feel about Hermeticism? I've been studying it for a few months so far, and I have to be completely honest, the things I've found in it have illuminated pretty much every contradiction and issue I've had with pretty much everything on every level of my life. It's like a holistic philosophical framework that, when applied to literally every aspect of life, makes everything make sense. It also, has made me into a complete and utter schizophrenic who cannot have a normal conversation without saying some shit like "the chariot of Apollo shall crash upon the mountain in a flash of moonlight, only to rise again" or some such pretentious bullshit.

>> No.23384310

>>23384301
Cringe self-help. Read real philosophy not some pop garbage you found in the spirituality section of a book store.

>> No.23384317

>>23384310
Isn't hermeticism like, the origin point of the entire western canon of philosophy? Hermeticism influenced plato after all, which is something VERY obvious by his framework.

>> No.23384319

>>23384310
It’s too academic for new-agers and not academic enough for academia. Perfect for /lit/fags

>> No.23384323

>>23384317
>Hermeticism influenced plato after all
No it didn't. Plato lived around 500 years before the first Hermetic texts were written.

>> No.23384336

>>23384323
The Hermetic texts themselves were written in the 2nd and 3rd centuries CE, but they were part of a broader Hellenistic milieu that included influences from earlier Greek philosophy, Egyptian religion, and other ancient Near Eastern traditions actually. The truth is we have no fucking idea where or when hermeticism actually came from, just by merit of how long ago the ideas were being passed around. the Egyptian god Thoth and the Greek god Hermes, who contributed to the mythos of Hermes Trismegistus, were worshipped long before Plato, and their syncretism in the form of Hermes trismigestus existed before him as well.

>> No.23384343

>>23384323
This

Plato came first. Platonism and neoplatonism however, likely evolved ALONGSIDE hermeticism.

>> No.23384346

It's very interesting from a personal/spiritual standpoint for reasons other anons have mentioned - as far as esoteric traditions go, this one has a great deal of explicit overlap with the basic philosophical topoi, specifically the doctrines of an invisible second world, the mind witnessing spiritual forms, etc.

>> No.23384350

I can't get into it. Seems like a bunch of new age nonsense. What do you find compelling about it?

>> No.23384373

>>23384350
Well, it's kind of a philosophy unto itself really. It teaches you how to understand the machine that makes the universe tick. For example, politics. the masculine aspects present in the political right, and the feminine aspects present in the political left, how they bounce off of each other, how they develop in a dialectical sense, ultimately unifying into a single thing that is both neither of it's two parts and better than both of them.

>> No.23384421

>>23384373
This sort of thing annoys me. Most of the time, using poetic language to describe things like that is at best too vague to be really useful, and at worst is used to deliberately mislead.

>> No.23384425

>>23384421
A pretty feminine response. You voted for Biden and like sticking things in your butt.

>> No.23384426

>>23384421
maybe it's a taste thing. i kinda prefer it, I find that symbolic language can translate more profound ideas. Then again I'm literally insane so take that as you will.

>> No.23384430

>>23384425
Agent of Apollo detected. You shall burn in the flames of your chariot as the moon rises.

>> No.23384451

i think if you're going to do it you need to splash for the full rubber seals and get thick handblown glass and heavy duty lids. you need to boil everything and not touch it with your bare hands during the actual filling process. even then you're gonna get some growth 5-6 months in if you don't store it at a correct temperature with minimal light, let's be honest do you have a stone cellar because if you don't why are we even playing around here, you're going to give your whole family botulism and not the nice kind that makes your face shiny and smooth.

>> No.23384484

>>23384425
kek

>> No.23384498

>>23384373
>the masculine aspects present in the political right
lol
lmao

>> No.23384506

>>23384301

My brother-in-law is really into Hermeticism. Seems like Middle Platonism filtered through a bunch of schizo nonsense desu.

>> No.23384547

>>23384506
That's exactly what it is. It's literally schizophrenic neoplatonism for faggots and insane people and people who like William Blake

>> No.23384567

>>23384421
When the vocabulary you need doesn't exist, a resort to allegory is inevitable. How else can you describe the ineffable?

>> No.23384577

>>23384301
Works well with panentheism, which I'm a fan of.

>> No.23384595
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23384595

>>23384498
>the left literally whitecapes for trannies and fags

>> No.23384620

>>23384301
OP what are your fav hermeticism books, what you're reading currently, what you plan to read, and throughout your venture into esotericism, what enlightened you the most.

>> No.23384622

>>23384301

Why are you guys talking "Hermeticism" when you mean Freemasonry?

>> No.23384630
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23384630

>>23384336
>CE

>> No.23384687

>>23384620
Right now I'm actually reading From Hell by Alan moore (inb4 "hurr sure comics hurr) for it's hermetic ideas, which are really interesting because he takes the entirety of the 19th century england and he uses hermeticism to highlight and analyze the era holistically. The most "enlightening" hermetic book I've ever read though was, hilariously, IT by Stephen King (yea yea fuck you too). That book influenced me a lot when I was younger and gave me an outlook that was very obsessed with the idea of righteous rebellion, being alone on an island with your best friends and standing against the world, but now that I'm older, I've re-read it and understand that the book is more about the things created by the clas between trauma and rebellion, instead of the rebellion itself. Which lead me down different paths and turned me into the man I am today. It was an extremely "alchemical" experience.

>> No.23384741

>>23384567
If you can't explain it in simple terms, you don't understand it. Allegory makes rhetorical sleight of hand too easy. It allows you to decouple your logic from the reality you are trying to describe.

>X is similar to Y
>Y has properties A, B, and C
>Therefore X also has properties A, B, and C
>No, I don't need to actually show how real object X has any of these properties

>> No.23384903

>>23384741
You can't explain it in simple terms, or at all, if the requisite words haven't been invented.
Look at Jung's work. He had to invent a whole lexicon of psychological terms because no suitable vocabulary existed. It's part of the reason why Jung remains incomprehensible to many people, even today.

>> No.23385060

>>23384425
Is this simple shitposting or do you really not feel embarrassed when you post this cringe? I can't tell anymore and I'm all for censoring keywords relating to USA politics, at least on off topic boards.

>> No.23385075

>>23384323
>No it didn't. Plato lived around 500 years before the first Hermetic texts were written

Because they were recorded at that time does not mean they arose at that time. The Homeric epics are far older than we can date because of the oral tradition of knowledge transfer.

>> No.23385085

>>23384903
Then create new, specific, well-defined terms and explain them clearly. Using allegory or abusing existing (or even worse, anthropomorphizing) terms only confuses the issue.

>> No.23385109

>>23385085
That's what Jung tried to do, and as mentioned, it still eludes people today.
Some things can't be described in words with any kind of accuracy. Drug trips, religious experiences, even everyday things like scents, tastes and colours.

>> No.23385165

>>23384301
The separation of the religious from the scientific was a temporary necessity extended by Church dogma. It is a necessary element in the life of the Western Mind and a lens on the mysticism and spirituality of the ancients. One's disposition or 'feels' regarding it are irrelevant. On the negative end, one may as well just read Plotinus and Porphyry, and Ficino's commentaries, it's largely derivative thereof.

>> No.23385174

>>23384343
>Platonism and neoplatonism
Can someone suggest books about these schools of thought?

>> No.23385187

>>23384547
Willaim Blake is peak schizo, though.

>> No.23385201

it's just gnosticism at half-mast. not that interesting

>> No.23385214

>>23385109
Maybe Jung was just a schizo lunatic and his ideas aren't useful.

I don't know anything about drug trips or religious experiences, but there are whole industries dedicated to accurate description of scents, colors, and tastes.

>> No.23385223

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

>> No.23385272

>>23385214
>Maybe Jung was just a schizo lunatic and his ideas aren't useful.
Maybe you haven't read him and are full of shit.
>there are whole industries dedicated to accurate description of scents, colors, and tastes
Yep, you're full of shit.

>> No.23385291

>>23385214
>accurate description of scents, colors, and tastes
How would you describe "redness" to a blind person, anon?

>> No.23385353

>>23385272
If his ideas cannot be explained to mere mortals, then they are not useful.

>sensory input is just impossible to describe!
lel

>>23385291
Red corresponds to a range of wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation, roughly around 700 nm.

>> No.23385375

>>23385353
If he can express his ideas sufficiently for others to grasp them, however tenuously, then they are useful.
A specific EM wavelength tells us nothing about redness. It's a quale that can only be experienced.

>> No.23385381

>>23385353
>"Red corresponds to a range of wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation, roughly around 700 nm."
>Blind Perspon: Ah, I see...

>> No.23385388

>>23385381
*person

>> No.23385406

>>23385375
>If he can express his ideas sufficiently for others to grasp them, however tenuously, then they are useful.

You keep mentioning how he failed to do this.

>A specific EM wavelength tells us nothing about redness.
You asked about redness, not the experience of seeing. Furthermore, I object to the analogy you are trying to draw between 'explaining color to the blind', and explaining philosophical ideas to other people. Are you suggesting that the majority of people lack a necessary sense or mental faculty? If so, what sort of faculty? What does it allow them to know about the world that the rest of us do not?

>>23385381
Now describe infraredness.

>> No.23385438

>>23385406
>You keep mentioning how he failed to do this
No, mentioned how "Jung remains incomprehensible to many people."
>You asked about redness, not the experience of seeing.
That wasn't me, but redness and the experience of seeing are inseparable.
Nothing is objectively red, it's a quality preceived by the human brain.

>> No.23385484

>>23385353
This dude looked up the wavelength of red and really thought “this will show ‘em.”

>> No.23385546

>>23384336
That's like saying that we don't know when christianity started because we fon't know the exact age of the cult of the storm god that later became the jewish elohim

>> No.23385599

>>23384310
People really don't seem to recognize the fact that Hermeticism really is just self-help with occult larp imagery. It can be fine if that's all your looking for but "hermeticism" as a detailed interest is for schizos.