/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23336108]

TFW most fiction is bad because the majority of authors have unsophisticated worldviews and a shallow understanding of human behavior

[Anonymous No.23336120]

>>23336108
you were saying?

[Anonymouṡ No.23336164]

>>23336108

tfw

I hate bad authors because they have an unsophisticated worldview and a shallow understanding of human behaviour

but

I hate good authors because I have an unsophisticated worldview and a shallow understanding of human behaviour

[Anonymous No.23336169]

>>23336108
Most fiction is bad because writers don't know how to write, even if their work isn't based in philosophy it would be fine if they understood the mechanics of storytelling. I mean just look up "how to write" and you'll get the most basic bitch "sounds about right" non-advice akin to sketchy health advice.

[Anonymous No.23336198]

I recently read a reddit thread where they ran a poll on whether people would read a story that had a lot of head hopping and after finishing the thread, most of the replies had the fruity fags complaining that head hopping is bad because they don't get to be a single character for any length of time. The reason why most of them read was to get to be another character. It occured to me then, that this was the most shallow and normie like opinion i had ever had of any reader, and their narcissim had the result of cheapening writing for me, the idea that writers write stories so that these vapid fags can imagine themselves in your characters is extremely demoralizing. Its no different from teachers complaining of reduced attention spans. This new age narcissistic video game trend has to stop if good writing is to come back Reading because your life is so boring that you can't stand anything that doesn't pander to your fantasies instead of reading to acquire knowledge and perspective will be the death of fiction.

[Anonymous No.23336408]

>>23336120
18+ website kiddo

[Anonymous No.23336412]

>>23336108
bare feet

[Anonymous No.23336541]

>>23336198
Fact of the matter is that most readers these days, especially the male ones, grew up on anime and videogames and somewhere along the road decided that reading was a more mature hobby but they carried over their self-insert wish fulfilment tastes that they got from anime and videogames.

[Anonymous No.23336551]

>>23336198
You do want to immerse yourself in the characters though, certainly of a modern psychological realist novel from Flaubert on. I'm not sure that character insertion is the problem, rather that the philstine reader has bad taste and such small mental horizons that only the adventure antics of genre fiction character immersion interests them, rather than say the psychology and life of an Emma Bovary or Anna Karenina.

[Anonymous No.23336556]

My views are sophisticated but i can't write for shit.

Also sophisticated doesn't necessarily mean the same as "interesting"

[Anonymous No.23336600]

>>23336551
Poll people on the functions of a novel and most have no idea what it is. The idea that a character is 'unlikeable' is a deal breaker for them. The interiority of a character profile doesn't even occur as a point of interest. They're not interested in the psychology or how themes are presented and have no critical reading skills.

>>23336541
I've seen a counter trend where, the men who aren't total granolabois at least, end up at the peaks of genre and start seeing through the spectacle to what actually drives good literature, and dip into classics and the continuum of works responding to them. Not a common thing, but common enough.

[Anonymous No.23336991]

>>23336556
>>23336164
Just keep reading and writing
And remember to read more than you write

[Anonymous No.23337009]

Most fiction is bad because it's smut written for femoids.

[Anonymous No.23337033]

Tomo is cute!

[Anonymous No.23337043]

>>23336108
1. pencils are cheap, those authors wouldn't write low effort garbage for decades if they didn't make a living out of it
2. yet people wouldn't buy it if it wasn't marketed (including the advertising)
3. it all boils down to who is getting all those those fat bank loans to do the marketing... and to what end? because if you don't need the money anyway, it's not like you are paying for it out of your own pocket lol

but it's all over now anyway... who needs whiny authors with zero life experience to juggle words when you got A.I.?!

[Anonymous No.23337315]

>>23337009
And femoid-brained men

[Anonymous No.23337336]

>>23336108
you're very cool and super smart for saying this anon :)

[Anonymous No.23337343]

>>23336991
It's impossible to write more than you read, because you read everything you write.

[Anonymous No.23337906]

>>23337336

[Anonymous No.23338702]

>>23336198
That term is for perspective shifting within a scene which is egregious. Having a lot of character POVs that have their own chapters however is also bad and is often padding. Wheel of Time for example should have been limited to the perspectives of Rand, Mat, and Perrin.

[Anonymous No.23338797]

>>23336600
Ensconced in Ulro, true. I am noticing it with the nieces; their mother introduces them to Potter, now self-selecting all Potter-like adventure novels. Still at an age were it is forgivable, but already trapped in the genre fiction prison, becoming habituated to the routine of incarceration, and not learning any skills of flight or escape. Not what literature and reading is for.

[Anonymous No.23338807]

>most fiction is bad
nearly all of what has been thought, said, and written is trifling bullshit. History tends to filter for those who had something to say.

[Anonymous No.23339167]

>>23338702
What does perspective shifting within a scene even mean? When you have 3 people in a room talking to each other, you are describing dialogue transitions and moving the story forward, how the fuck do you not head hop or perspective shift?? An example is the game of thrones scene with catelyn and ned discussing whether he should go south and become hand, that scene has tonnes of shifts btn the two's points of views, then even more when maester luwin enters the discussion. Another one is the piece written by some /lit/ fag about a farmer who hates peaches, i think it was posted yesterday, that one also has the same shifts. I don't understand how you could describe a scene with more than two people without changing perspectives.

[Anonymous No.23339471]

>>23339167
Difficult if it's an epistolary novel with one writer, or a second person perspective novel like pic. But yes, it's an impoverishing regression to the pre-Madame Bovary era to not have an omnipresent narrator who can plunge into the interiority of each character.

[Anonymous No.23340616]

>>23339167
That chapter, Catelyn I GOT is entirely Catelyn's POV, anything about what Ned thinks or feels about what they're talking about is from Catelyn's observations and assumptions.
>His eyes were haunted, his voice thick with doubt.
>He stood staring out in the darkness, watching the moon and the stars perhaps, or perhaps the sentries on the wall.
>Ned looked irritated.
From what I remember GRRM is pretty good about only including stuff about other characters' thoughts that the POV character could reasonably assume.

[Anonymous No.23340669]

>>23340616
I don't like GOT and I can confirm it's hard with perspective for the best.

[Anonymous No.23340872]

>>23336164
I'm sure that the animetard has a very sophisticated worldview and understanding of human behaviour

[Anonymous No.23340884]

>>23336541
Can you elaborate on sophisticated and 'correct' tastes of male readers?

[Anonymous No.23340907]

>>23336108
if only the understood human nature like obscure anime girl posters

[Anonymous No.23341855]

>>23340616
No its not, how can catelyn see that ned is watching the moon. This is clearly an omniscient that doesn't want to reveal everything.

[Anonymous No.23341861]

>>23336108
>TFW most fiction is bad because the majority of authors have unsophisticated worldviews and a shallow understanding of human behavior
name 3 examples of good fiction

[Anonymous No.23341871]

>>23336991
>Just keep reading (good books)

fixed

[Anonymous No.23341877]

>>23340884
nothing made after 1955

[Anonymous No.23341895]

>>23341871
You should read bad books. The bad books you should read is whatever schlock is popular in your community/culture. Basically pop-culture tripe. The reason why is because you need to stay in touch with the everyman, so you don't become a pretentious weirdo from reading exclusively good lit. Another reason why is that it will deepen your appreciation of the good lit you read. Of course good lit should be prioritized, but this will help you develop your own nuanced understanding of good lit, instead of reading lists made by knowitalls that live/lived in a different world from yourself.

[Anonymous No.23341931]

>>23336108
>>23336164
>>23336198
>>23336541
>>23336600
>>23336991
>>23337336
>>23338702
>>23339167
>>23340884


there is no subtlety, there is no mystique. ideas, concepts, voices, thoughts, actions are shoved down your throat. There is no silence, there is no grace. Everything is too LOUD and no one knows how to let the fucking song play out. Visual media is a plague that stunted your imagination, and everyone needs to know EXACTLY what happens at EVERY given moment. Anime certainly didnt help things, with its vapid approach to social interacting, stunting a generation's prefrontal development. But that's not even the worst thing about modern storytelling. No, its actually much simpler than you think.

Do you know one of the biggest fundamentals to storytelling is? Its something Ive found in nearly every modern book after a PAINFUL examination and study of them. DON'T DENY THE READER HIS IMAGINATION. That's the whole fucking POINT of a book. In a proper book, your imagination is practically A PART of the book. TWO PEOPLE who read the same think aren't going to see exactly the same thing and that's the POINT. A story should be engrossing. Your protagonist needs to have motivation. The conflict needs to be clear. EVERYTHING needs to be clear, and NOT a SINGLE event, or character, or dialogue should be wasted. NOT a SINGLE word should go to waste. And most importantly, STOP DENYING THE READER THEIR IMAGINATION. I WANT TO FEEL LIKE IM INSIDE A WORLD STOP FUCKING TELLING ME HOW TO IMAGINE THE FUCKING WORLD IM SUPPOSED TO DO THAT MYSELF

[Anonymous No.23341953]

>>23341931
Your imagination is a subjective quality and its only as good as you are informed or intelligent. Its not something that writers take into account when writing because its not something that can be quantified.

[Anonymous No.23341957]

>>23341953
ooo thats too bad. Your skill as a writer is a subjective quality too, so uh, gotta take that into account and not read your pompous faggot book.
get fucked pseud

[Anonymous No.23341961]

>>23341895
No. Don't waste your life in the mire. Your body is a temple for the Holy Spirit, do not sully it with stupidity.

[Anonymous No.23341966]

>>23341957
lmao,i suppose your mom told you you are special kid, didn'r they, they told you, you have some special imagination that all writers should pander to, come on special kid give me your top 5 books and lets see just how special you are

[Anonymous No.23341988]

>>23341966
now youre calling me the special one. lol ok dude dont get lost inside your fucking asshole now lol. actually clinically braindead stupid

[Anonymous No.23342002]

>>23341988
so you have no books, special imaginative kid, all you can conjure up is juvenile tier insults, you never did grow up special kid, you still think anime and comics are le true literature because they heavily employ le imagination

[Anonymous No.23342013]

>>23342002
you are genuinely deranged and worked yourself into an retard fit because you dont know how to read. consider euthanizing yourself

[Anonymous No.23342015]

>>23341931
That's retarded kek

[Anonymous No.23342019]

>>23342013
deranged, fit, euthanize, anon these are unimpressive for an imaginative teenager, you need to work on your vocabulary zoomer, tiktok is not going to help improve it

[Anonymous No.23342971]

bump

[Anonymous No.23343178]

>>23341931
>>23341953
I would maybe reword the imagination bit as "authors don't respect the intelligence of the reader". Authors are afraid to intentionally write in contradictions, give their characters meaningful flaws, or create sympathetic bad guys. The worst is that authors spell out every single detail of the story instead of leaving some things open to be inferred or debated by their active readers. These things do happen, but mostly unplanned through the authors lack of skill. I wish I could say that I'm only describing YA but I think it's the case for the majority of fiction now. Nothing is created for adults, because the modern adult is a big kid who doesn't read to be a challenged or to confront difficult themes. It's all marvel movies where the good guy wins and the bad guy is literally Hitler and they're fighting for something as mundane as "world domination" or some shit.

[Anonymous No.23343190]

>>23341961
Anon, we should give people's bad books a chance like we'd want them to give the bible a chance. Of course like I said, good material should take precedence. But we cant explect to hold a fair view of other worldviews if we refuse them, just like people who never read the Bible say dumb bullshit like "sky daddy" or "Trinity is 3 gods". We should strive to be the ones who are different, better and fair.

[Anonymous No.23344414]

>>23336169
Not true. The elite strut and sheer strength of upper-class "gatekeeping"
shrouds taste.

[Anonymous No.23344700]

>>23343190
No. You shouldn't waste your time on bad books. Life is short, value yourself as something divine who is made for better things, or become a lowly being in a self-created hell.

[Anonymous No.23344780]

>>23344700
Reading bad books isn't a waste of time, for the reasons I mentioned
You need to read bad books to know they are bad books. Many people feel the same way about the bible, that "it's a bad book, why read it". Give others the same chance you'd want to be given, and understand you are just as likely to be wrong about anything as they are. You will likely learn from them.
I will reiterate, good books should be given precedence.

[Anonymous No.23346359]

>>23336108
>TFW most fiction is bad because the majority of authors have unsophisticated worldviews and a shallow understanding of human behavior
True. Also most write for a paycheck and it shows.

[Anonymous No.23346875]

>>23336164

[Anonymous No.23348279]

>>23344700
correction: study bad books

[Anonymous No.23348761]

>>23348279
Huh

[Anonymous No.23349876]

>>23346359
Is a paycheck even worth it if you're a hobbyist writing generic schlock
Wouldn't it be better to dare to be unique and stand out

[Anonymous No.23351079]

>>23336108
That's why I only read good fiction. Easy.

[Anonymous No.23351123]

>>23349876
You know how non-conformists tend to dress alike and have the same views? For many of these writers,
>daring to be unique and stand out
would still result in generic schlock, but now also unprofitable