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/lit/ - Literature

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23306919 No.23306919 [Reply] [Original]

""Orthodox"" Christianity. What's that all about?

>> No.23306927

>>23306919
It’s an ancient form of Christianity aligned with the Eastern Roman Empire that split with Western Christianity for mostly political reasons. Becoming popular recently because the alternative, Roman Catholicism, shot itself in the foot with Vatican II and embracing liberalism.

>> No.23306932

>>23306919
Narcissistic larpers who think they’re too good for Catholicism. Basically the Christian equivalent of hipsters.

>> No.23306942

I've always wondered why Christians follow a Pope in the first place. I mean no disrespect but how can a man dictate or change the rules of God? Seems crazy to me

>> No.23306958

>>23306942
Catholics believe the Pope is the leader of the Churcch and has the power to infallibly settle doctrinal disputes due to a special gift given to him by God. They don’t believe he changes gods rules

>> No.23306990

>>23306919
Split from the Roman Catholic Church in 1054 during the "Great Schism". The only Church that has any business claiming succession with the ancient Church. Roman Catholicism has added too many innovations and Protestantism is the equivalent of a bad fan fiction

>> No.23306995

>>23306942
>how can a man dictate or change the rules of God?
not how it works

>> No.23307070

>>23306919
Become one with God through Mystagogy during Diving Liturgy and Hesychastic prayer if you are a monastic.

Don't check it out if you're not serious and don't argue with people online if you join. Just pray and repent.

>> No.23307117

>>23307070
i have no fucking idea what you said

>> No.23307128

>>23307117
I ain't google, pal.

>> No.23307129

Eastern Christianity is an ethnic social club, not a religion.

>> No.23307223

>>23307129
y?

>> No.23307239

>>23307129
It only appears that way in the West where it did not exist for centuries until certain immigrant groups had to bring it with them as there was no pre-existing structure present. No one in Romania calls themself "Romanian Orthodox" for instance. There is only the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The same "criticism" could be leveled at Catholic Americans, and it has been. You used to hear "Irish Catholic" and "Polish Catholic". The fears of Catholicism in Protestant America was partly anti-irish and anti-Italian prejudice.

Much like how that has changed for Catholicism it is now changing for Orthodoxy.

>> No.23307251

>>23306919
NIGGER NIGGE NIGGER NIGGER

>> No.23307253

>>23307070
>don't argue with people online if you join
Why do so few of them heed this advice? Do they not get that they're just feeding their religion into a godless algorithm.

>> No.23307291

>>23307253
It's Jay Dyer's fault. As a cradle Orthodox, I can't stand that guy's cult. I'm not a liberal, I'm a strict traditionalist, but he opened the floodgates of narcissist young men who think they can "debate Theology". Its absolute madness and the clergy have begun cracking down on it and reminded new young people that our faith is not an ideology.

I assure you that those people are very few in number irl and they only stick to each other's company at church.

>> No.23307328

>>23307239
Not really lol they have national churches who are independent of each other kind of like the anglicans. Tried to look up orthodox churches near me to perhaps give it a shot but all the services are either in romanian or greek

>> No.23307334

>>23307291
Had never heard of that guy. Regardless of content his thumbnails are embarrassing. It was really disappointing to see someone like Pageau defend "orthobros." I'm glad the church is doing something about them because I'm really sick of the memes. Do you find your faith impacts friendships with prots or secularists?

>> No.23307340

>>23307291
>>23307334
What's the problem in people arguing about theology online unless they're making bad points or something

>> No.23307351
File: 238 KB, 1690x885, popeorthobro.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23307351

>>23306932
>think they're too good for Catholicism
Kek the Pope recently converted to Orthodoxy. It's over for tradcaths.

>> No.23307369

>>23307340
It has a leveling effect on discourse in general and profanes religion in particular. Same impact television had on evangelicals.

>> No.23307381

>>23307369
Honestly to me it seems like this isnt just an online thing and that the whole history of Christianity is just people bickering over doctrines. It's hard for an outsider even to convert to Christianity because there are so many sects claiming to have the true message of Jesus

>> No.23307385

>>23307334
>Do you find your faith impacts friendships with prots or secularists?
Yes to secularists (they sniff out religion in people and hate it). Sometimes, to Protestants.

Most of the time it's great with Protestants but the irony is that the very reason we are able to get along (their belief that all Christians are in the same church because it's just all who believe) is why there have been some unsolvable differences. We like Christians in general too, but they can't understand why we have a rule against prayer together with them for example.
That's been the big divide in my experience, actually. No debating or theological arguments or anything, just their frustration and confusion that we only pray with other Eastern Orthodox. I understand their perspective but it doesn't change how we do things.

>> No.23307400

>>23306919
the derivation that finds the truth of all synthetic principles is that same as an operational derivation, they just don't have to revise anything and don't lose any rightness

>> No.23307412

>>23306919
Orthodox Christianity is like Bitcoin. Decentralised group of "miners" (bishops) with distributed authority keeping up the tradition.

Catholicism is like traditional finance, a centralised authority which keeps the faith through its own decrees.

>> No.23307414

>>23306958
>infallibly settle doctrinal disputes due to a special gift given to him by God

so, changing the rules

>> No.23307416

>>23307381
I agree with that to an extent but I think it's just inherent to the medium itself. Telegraphy, like McLuhan said, is tribalizing in ways print culture wasn't.
>>23307385
Yeah, as I understand Prots are just naively ecumenical whilst Orthodox have a more sectarian bent that demands conversion.

>> No.23307417

>>23307351
>last used in 2006
Dunno if this is really as big of a change as you think it is.

>> No.23307418

>>23306919
>/lit/ - Literature

>> No.23307420

>>23307414
No.

>> No.23307444

>>23307381
Not just that but there are straight up fringe heretical groups with online presences who try to sneak into normal Christian conversation like Hebrew Roots Movement (judaizers) and even gnostics and non-Christian cults that still use the Bible and refer to Jesus, so it's hard for someone completely outside to even ascertain what small "o" orthodox Christianity even believes. It all looks like the lowest common denominator of nonsense to them because of that especially.

Part of the danger of the online world is you might listen to some random person who you could tell not to irl. I know that's common sense but still, people are being led astray and so it must be said.

>> No.23307448

You guys think the Great Schism will ever be healed?

>> No.23307450

>>23307328
At least you didn't say Russian.

>> No.23307456

>>23307448
Not in good faith, no. Deep politics.

>> No.23307460

>>23307417
>ummm im more of a 2006 traditionalist myself...
kek tradcaths on their last legs its ogre

>> No.23307484

>>23307456
Why do you think so?

>> No.23307517
File: 19 KB, 331x500, ybarra, the papacy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23307517

>>23307381
>It's hard for an outsider even to convert to Christianity because there are so many sects claiming to have the true message of Jesus

Indeed. And Christ speaks directly to this issue in John 17:20-23, where he prays for unity in the Church, **so that the world will accept His divinity**:

>My prayer is not for them (the Apostles) alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
>that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
>May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me,
>that they may be one as we are one—I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity.
>Then the world will know that you sent me. – John 17:20-23

And *this* is why Christ instituted what theologians call The Petrine Ministry, i.e., the Papacy. The Papacy is the source of unity. And indeed throughout history it has achieved a remarkable, worldwide unity. But the world is broken and fallen, and as a result that unity is not perfect.

>Protestant Objection: The Holy Spirit is the source of unity.

Hypothetically, one might think so. It seems to make sense.

But as a practical matter, once the Reformation occurred, and Protestant Christians removed themselves from the authority of the Papacy, what happened?

They immediately began dividing from each other because they could not agree on the meaning of scripture. They could not agree, for example, on whether infants should be baptized, or the meaning of the words "This is My body." Among many other issues.

Now, Protestants say that in interpreting the Bible, they pray and are led by the Holy Spirit. And I don't dispute that. But the proof is in the pudding -- in the history of Protestant division. The Holy Spirit does *not* lead Protestants to unity. The Holy Spirit does *not* lead them to a uniform and unified understanding of Scripture.

I believe the Petrine Ministry was created by Christ because He understood human nature. Unity is not found absent a real, rather than a merely abstract (such as the Bible) source of unity, and that source He established with the Petrine Ministry, the papacy: "Upon this Rock I will build My Church, and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

>And what of the Orthodox?
Of course, the Orthodox reject the Catholic understanding of the Petrine Ministry.

Now this is a story with a very long and complex history. And there are two sides to the story; and for every argument there is a counter-argument. With that said, I do think the Catholic Church has the better of the argument. For instance, a recently published book, pic related, is a Catholic apologetic directed primarily towards Orthodox claims. Of necessity, it gets deep into the weeds. If you're interested in getting into the weeds, here's one such article:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/that-time-the-eastern-churches-accepted-papal-infallibility

>> No.23307613

>>>/x/

>> No.23307831

>>23306942
He was the local patriarch of the church in Rome like the Orthodox still have today across regions. He had to be more politically active than other patriarchs to stay alive and around 1000AD he was mostly subjugated by Normans. Harald the fair-haired, first king of Norway fought the Normans there on the side of the pope as a mercenary for the Byzantine empire.
20-40 years after dealing with the Normans the formal schism between the pope and the orthodox happened and 50 years after that the pope called for the crusades. This consolidated his political power in Europe and reduced Byzantine influence.
In 1312 he takes absolute power by destroying the powerful orders of Norman dominated knights that came from the crusades.
It lasts for 200 years until the north gets annoyed with the butter tax and do a reformation not long after the pope declares his family basically owns half the world, his cousins own the other half.

>> No.23308358

>>23307418
People here are smarter than /x/.

>> No.23308363

>>23307517
>Actually REAL christianity has never been tried, MY version of it is the only true version and totally works as you can see by my holy book that was written to agree with this belief
That's really convenient anon good for you.

>> No.23308399

So, as a mostly non-religious person, how do you actually pierce this seemingly endless bickering about nonsensical word salad, and understand which of these things you should actually follow? No one ever explains this to you.
I still don't even understand what Jesus is supposed to have done on the cosmic scale, really.
>well you need to follow my version of it, because chronox sepulchure monad gongnanomous
Oh yeah, that's really helpful. Dickhead.

>> No.23308421

>>23308399
Start by emailing your local Catholic or Orthodox priest with your questions, it is literally their job to answer things like this. Be upfront about the fact that you're not a believer and just want to know what their positions are and why they believe what they do, to avoid confusion. From there, start with the Greeks.

>> No.23308537

>>23308399
Generally people do it the same way they piece together scientific claims. The most prominent and well respected local authority tells them what to think.
Like in science actually thinking independently involves heavy scholarly work and intense discipline or motivation.