[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 28 KB, 220x332, Dune-Frank_Herbert_(1965)_First_edition.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23272585 No.23272585 [Reply] [Original]

What are the best sci-fi/fantasy epics for exploring philosophical themes and asking the reader to think deeply about something, preferably without also spoonfeeding the "correct" answer?

What I've read so far
>Dune saga (probably the closest to what I'm looking for)
>LOTR, Hobbit and Silmarillion
>All the main ASOIAF books
>Dark Tower series
>First Foundation book (enjoyed it, but each chapter seemed a bit of a rehash of the previous one to me)

I'm considering The Wheel of Time but I read the first one as a kid and as I recall it's all pretty straightforward good guy/bad guy fantasy stuff

>> No.23272676

What did Dune make you think deeply about?

>> No.23272743

>>23272676

>Messianism and fanaticism
>Religion and religious fervour
>Whether individuals, even "great" ones really have the ability to shape history or whether they're just being swept along in its wave
>Whether terrorism, tyranny, war and atrocity can be justified
>What it means to be human
>What the future of humanity might look like
>What would it be like to be a giant sandworm

>> No.23273240

>>23272585
Wolfe (The Book of the New Sun, Peace)
Peake (The Gormenghast novels)
Erikson (Malazan novels)

Jordan and Sanderson are pretty much as straightforward as fantasy epic writers go.

>> No.23273340

Remembrance of Earth's past series (also known as the Three-Body Problem and subsequent books)

>> No.23273391

>>23272585
Definitely Wolfe, Book of the New Sun in particular

>> No.23274800

>>23273240
>Peake
I love Gormenghast but it's not philosophical at all, it's all aesthetics.
>Malazan
LMAO

>>23272585
PKD didn't really write "epics", but he's the most profound thinker SFF has produced. Calvino and Lem are similar but write with more distance, often for the better, but Dick really makes you feel the weight of his concerns.

Unironically CS Lewis, Narnia and the Space Trilogy. It's concerned with moral/religious questions instead of the metaphysics and epistemological problems of Dick, and he has a religious agenda that's not subtle, but like Tolkien he was a serious thinker. Narnia is for kids (so is most SFF tbdesu) but it's surprisingly good all the way through, very inventive and plotted in a very satisfying way.

>> No.23274869

>>23272585
Anything by that guy who wrote
>The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe
...uh...
was it Jack Vance or John Ralph Ruelle Tolkien? I can't remember right now for some reason.

>> No.23274884

>>23272585
Definitely the Prince of Nothing by R. Scott Bakker. Author went through a doctorate program for philosophy. It’s pretty dark but very interesting and unique interweaving of fantasy/scifi and philosophy, with a lot of Dune, Tolkien, and world history thrown in.

>> No.23274993

>>23274800
>it's all aesthetics
I felt it was clearly saying something about the British monarchy, then again I'm not British.

>> No.23275084

>>23274800
>it's not philosophical at all, it's all aesthetics.

This is where its philosophy comes from. Steerpike is one of literatures great revolutionary figures. Yet unlike Ahab or Miltons Satan, he has no deep philosophical or emotional motivation for doing what hes doing. We are drawn to him, not by his motivation, but from the sheer intensity and dedication he has for rebellion.
Similarly, Flay is a total arch traditionalist, the kind to make trad cath look like radicals. He is one of the great heroic reactionary characters in literature. Yet, the tradition he defends is totally absurd and is never given any justification. How can we like someone that defends such lunacy? Because of the sheer intensity with which he defends it.

Peake realized that ideas and motivation are only of secondary interest. The real draw to character and figures is personality.

Aesthetics trumps philosophy.

>> No.23275111

>>23274800
A few years ago I wouldn't believe if someone told me C.S. Lewis was capable of schizoposting, but damn, "That Hideous Strength" delivers. What an amazing book. A little cringeworthy with all that talk about marriage and so, but that is negligible.

>> No.23275129
File: 127 KB, 600x960, metal_cross.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23275129

>>23272585
My Christian Sci-Fi, unironically. Amazon is processing it right now, in 72 hour it will be out.

>> No.23275149

>>23272585
For science fiction, check out the following: Star Maker, Childhood's End, Solaris, I, Robot, The Dispossessed, Roadside Picnic

>> No.23275620

>>23274884
Hmm. Sounds interesting. Just looked it up and may give it a try. Thank you.

>> No.23275622

>>23272585
I would say CJ Cherryh's books. A lot of her stories have to do alien diplomacy where the aliens don't just have different cultural values and mores, but their brains are hardwired differently. The Pride of Chanur books are great, and also the Foreigner series.

>> No.23275672
File: 298 KB, 400x400, Augusto.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23275672

I'd thought the pleb answer is ASOIAF but I didn't even think anyone was so pleb as to bring up the Dark Tower.
Helicopter. Now.

>> No.23275679

- "voyage to arcturus"
- Dunsany's Pegana work
- nothing by that overrated bitch leguin

>> No.23276317

>>23272585
I’m reading the Dune series right now and holy guck balls does it get bad at the end. It crazy because the first three books are legitimate masterpieces

>> No.23276422

>>23273240
>Erikson (Malazan novels)
The Malazan novels are about as deep as a puddle. In particular the characters are all extremely one-note.

>> No.23276920

>>23275672
>ASOIAF
>deep
I know you said "pleb answer" but how tf would anyone think it's anywhere near "philosophical"? There's nothing philosophical in depicting "humans bad actually, also fuck and rape a lot" and not even posing any questions about that

>> No.23276938

>>23272676
sand

>> No.23278481

>>23272585
Hyperion.

>> No.23279334

>>23272585
Just got done reading Chapterhouse: Dune, what fucking trash

>> No.23279392

>>23278481
Shame it fell off so bad in next books

>> No.23279410

>>23279334
How does it compare with the rest of the series? I hear that Messiah and God Emperor are the peaks.

>> No.23280297
File: 19 KB, 582x468, FR7N1vlVUAAUg1k.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23280297

>>23276938
>sand

>> No.23280733
File: 28 KB, 493x481, 1668588324081249.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23280733

>>23280297
>>23276938

>> No.23280764

>>23279334
I'm reading it right now and it's the first in the series that is genuinely hard for me to read. Every other book I breezed throguh but this one, I can't.
I hate Bene Gesserit so much it's unreal

>> No.23280766

>>23280764
You managed to breeze through the absolute slog that is Children of Dune? Color me impressed.

>> No.23280771

>>23280766
Yeah I found it weirdly interesting. The anticipation of the 4th book probably also motivated me a little

>> No.23281268

>>23275129
It is out: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D1L9R2JK

>> No.23282055

>>23280764
Reading it right now, too, and so far I think it's better than Heretics. That one was straight trash. It took me a while to get through that one.