/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23270542]

I'm sure it's been talked about to death here many times before but I just really want to talk about the absurdity of the world with people here just to vent because it makes no sense to me. I can understand that this was made for children, I get it, but it's so baffling how little thought was put into it.

How did the entire wizarding world ever become a thing without massive revolts against what it currently is? People are born with magical powers at complete random all the time without realizing it. How is everyone from the magical community okay with putting non-compliant people into the equivalent of Gitmo if they don't listen to the Ministry? Who cares about pure blooded wizards when you can achieve that in like three or four generations of Squibs at complete random?
Why in the world would magic ever be kept secret if it's this widespread that you have massive schools across multiple continents? It's like one in ten people is a wizard. Why would you not try and spread magic genes to people while also helping Muggles understand it? They're already more dangerous than you are in most scenarios and the more technology advances the more true that becomes. Genetically editing everyone in humanity to be wizards and witches should be the end goal for everyone, why even gatekeep it?

Obviously the meme question of guns but come on now. Why would anyone use magic to kill people when they have guns? Hell, why would you not just use magic to supplant using said gun? Why not mute the gunfire with a spell or use various ways on invisibility? You will kill your target faster than they can say the spell to disarm you even if they did realize you were going to shoot them.
How in the world are students taught like half their magic spells and then in the same breath told the Unforgivable Curses are the worst? You can literally turn people into objects and then personally destroy said objects. You can make people forget things over and over to gaslight them. You can defy the laws of gravity and drop people to their deaths. Yeah, they have secondary uses compared to the curses, but come on now. Like 80% of the curriculum can easily kill people and you're teaching it to children who don't listen to you and are massively irresponsible.

How are there not wizard factories churning out potions like we churn out wine or cheese? Particularly Liquid Luck? Once you've got it produced once you can give it to multiple people spread out across multiple months to counteract its side effects and difficulty to concoct.
How did anyone at Hogwarts' creation think it was a good idea to make it what it is? It's a complete mess of a layout that is like learning three universities at once on your first day, not even the headmaster seems to know all the rooms, according to Hogwarts Legacy you have ancient magical rooms and objects most people don't even know are there, and the entire premise behind the houses just promoted infighting rather than camaraderie.

[Anonymous No.23270558]

>>23270542
Look, if you're going to write a long /lit/ rant at least use insults, funny words and lots of caps. Otherwise it's not enjoyable to read.

[Anonymous No.23270584]

Just a couple more.

How are people keeping all the magical animals and plants away from the public Muggle eyes? They have spells for memories and so forth but how have there not been constant Dementor sightings? How have magical beasts not been part of the entire world in general but are instead seemingly located only in a couple countries and only in specific parts of them? How in the world do they have an SCP Foundation level of control over these things?

How can Hogwarts even upkeep Thestrals if almost no one can see them, breed them, or feed them? Lots of people even think they don't exist and the carriages move by themselves so what's the deal here? Do they just luck into everyone who deals with carriages being the MC from HL or Luna? Do they have backup plans when those exceedingly rare people don't appear for a millennia?

Most importantly, how can anyone in the world be okay with willingly going into wizard jobs? Sure, the Ministry jobs might be fine since it's effectively politics and bureaucracy, but half if not more of these people at Hogwarts are going to specialize into one field and mostly be rural farmers selling potions or herbs or live significantly worse lives than just being a 9-to-5 white or especially blue collar Muggle.
In general why would you ever not lead a Muggle life but with magic? Blue collar work is entirely free money through no effort for extremely complex tasks you don't even need to think to fix thanks to Reparo. How is anyone going to know you're fixing a leak with magic to save yourself effort and time? You aren't subject to dying to giant spiders or magical bear-like toads just to supplant your life. It's even worse when it comes to the teachers because that seems like a "for life" job, so only a handful of people will ever be part of Hogwarts for several generations of students.

The entire world just sounds idiotic at its core. Actually being a wizard at Hogwarts or within the magical community is leagues worse than just blending in with Muggles. Muggle technology a majority of the time is better than magic yet wizards shun it for some insane reason. It's insane how idiotic they are and how no one seemingly questions anything about anything. I'm not even going to go into the Time-Turner because we all know conceptually that's just stupid.

[Anonymous No.23270617]

>>23270542
>>23270584
Holy lorelet. Literally every question you asked is addressed at some point in the series.

[Anonymous No.23270656]

>>23270617
>Literally every question you asked is addressed at some point in the series.
Yes, and I bought up those exact counters in my questions. Liquid Luck for example has its side effects. So why not counteract said side effects by spreading it to multiple people to concoct? Liquid Luck itself will offset any dangerous aspects that happen and you won't have the massive side effects from it with prolonged use. It would simply help you to be proficient in crafting it for a while and luck into being a good potion maker, but since you have like 60 people using it that means everyone only needs to drink a single drop twice in a six month period.
Hogwarts is the way it is because it keeps people from attacking it, but at the same time it's a detriment to everyone within it so it's just causing issues for the hell of it.
They had their wars for purebloodedness and all that but why does it even matter? Even purebloods are not entirely pureblooded. Why the hell would it carry the same stigma as miscegenation when it's effectively depriving humanity of a bunch of extremely useful tools. You're teaching absolute morons who refuse to listen spells that could very well kill people through simple arguments, you're already at rock bottom in terms of expectations anyway.

Why even keep poltergeists or people in paintings alive? For what purpose? To let them suffer?

[Anonymous No.23270667]

>>23270656
Sorry, I mean three times for 60 people in a six month period. If you get 180 random wizards drinking a drop to create it that means each wizard only needs to drink a single drop a whole one time every six months. How are entire vats of this stuff not existing? You completely sidestep all of its faults and caveats. You only need enough to support that first initial batch and apparently potion makers make this stuff regularly. Just dedicate a year or two for a starter batch.

[sage No.23270679]

Is this bait?
If not, holy shit dude who fucking cares?

[Anonymous No.23270874]

>>23270542
>Who cares about pure blooded wizards
If I were to rewrite this mess, I'd have pure-blooded ones be into complete self-sufficiency: like, hide your hut with Fidelius Charm, send your elf to steal some food from somewhere, etc. No need for Ministry, no need for goblin banks, etc.

The Ministry, etc., then would have been solely a product of the muggle-borns, who are sullied by capitalistic culture, and unable to truly unlock the creative potential that magic potentially provides, merely replicating the wage-slave system they originated from.

Hence, the blood question then would have been relegated to a mere rule of thumb. "If from muggle world, then probably a basedjack"

[Anonymous No.23270883]

>>23270874
>basedjack
basedjack, text auto-replace?

[Anonymous No.23270889]

basedjack

test

[Anonymous No.23270898]

s o y j a c k

test

[Anonymous No.23270902]

>>23270542
You make good points and of course, the series would be destroyed with those logical arguments, but you forget the fact that the series is so entertaining, well told, with good characters an a very fascinating world that...

SHUT UP AND JUST ENJOY THE BOOKS.

[Anonymous No.23271239]

>>23270542
Shit was writen by bunch of Hollywood hacks, what did'ya expect?

[Anonymous No.23271293]

>>23270883
hello newfriend

[Anonymous No.23271343]

i dont get this, a TALKING BEAR??? how is the world not changed by this??? how did it not get out?

[Anonymous No.23271363]

>>23270542
You're putting way too much thought into this. There probably are answers for most of this stuff anyway -- just check out Pottermore or whatever.

[Anonymous No.23271376]

Americans often don't get Harry Potter because they're used to hyper-autistic fantasy with rules and logic clearly laid out, which usually ends up defeating the purpose of fantasy, which is to deal with the fantastical and unknown. They also don't understand the basic premise of the magicking community, that of a powerful and eccentric elite paralleling English culture, and set in the genre of English school books which I suppose they aren't familiar with.
Harry Potter never needed to autistically describe its rules because it instead plays with themes and tropes that I suppose a lot of Americans aren't familiar with. Ironically a lot of the stuff Rowling started tweeting to explain the world after she'd finished Harry Potter ended up being utter crap and unnecessary.
And on the matter of fantast, whenever authors try to set out some autistic framework in one book they often get bound by it in the next and either stick with having less to work with or have to retcon huge sections like Christopher Paolini, the beauty of Harry Potter is how each book introduces something new and wondrous without any major retconning, because the loose and style and lack of autism allows that kind of organic worldbuilding.

[Anonymous No.23271383]

>>23270542
Anyone who every brings up the "muh guns" argument has only ever watched the movies and are not worth engaging in conversation with.

[Anonymous No.23272722]

>just suspend your disbelief bro

[Anonymous No.23272819]

>>23271343
these books have no flaws though

[Anonymous No.23272921]

>>23270542
it's fiction. also aren't there examples of people shooting wands without saying a spell? basically it ends up being the same as star wars, why use light katanas when you can han solo at someone.

[Anonymous No.23273866]

>>23271376
But JK Rowling did have a huge story bible for how the universe works.

I know this because Rick Worley said so in a YouTube video, and if I cared enough to go fishing for it, I could probably find you his citation as real proof.

Truthfully, I'd rather concede.

[Anonymous No.23273950]

>>23270542
> Why would anyone use magic to kill people when they have guns
You never have to reload a wand and a wand creates more effects than a Judge Dredd Lawgiver.
> why even gatekeep [magic]?
Eugenics has its own long term issues and witch burning probably established the need for the segregation. The bigger question is why are muggle studies so behind the times when squibs are a thing who have to live in muggle society?
> pre-industrial Wizarding
Electricity and magic no mix well

[Anonymous No.23274149]

>>23270542
>How did the entire wizarding world ever become a thing
The scope of a children's story must be limited, otherwise they'll drop it like they dropped Fantastic Beasts - politics and grand strategy are bewildering if not boring, even sharp changes of location like from europe to 'mystical tibet/china' for a 'wizard ascendancy' cause problems - kiddos just don't understand the significance of such events.

Would you fault Vampire the Masquerade for trying to uphold the masquerade? The same rules apply.

[Anonymous No.23274285]

>>23273950
>You never have to reload a wand
Yeah, but if you're going to a fight then they have very little recourse for said gun. They can attempt to Expelliarmus it but they need to hit you with said spell, and why would you ever go to a fight like that upfront if you have a gun? Just cast Disillusionment, use some sort of spell to muffle your gun's sounds, then go sniping these wizards who have no idea where you even are. Invisibility cloaks exist so it stands to reason it would be so much easier to assassinate people. Why the hell are Dark Wizards even trying to use spells rather than guns? It's significantly stupider.
>and witch burning probably established the need for the segregation
That's a fair point, though I would imagine in a more modern setting who really cares? Christian monks seem to have been wizards if the poltergeists in Hogwarts Legacy are anything to go by.
>Electricity and magic no mix well
You're still able to fix things that don't rely on electricity. Plumbing is a very quick example as is pottery. You could even become a world-renowned art restorer who doesn't reveal their secrets on how they fix stuff and make a living doing that. Just charge people by the hour, take a month to fix stuff, and voila.

[Anonymous No.23274327]

>>23274149
This.
As a kid I remember reading books and just being in complete awe at their size and disappearing into them as I read. I can't remember at any point stopping and going "hmmm but wouldnt that dagger that makes you see a glimpse into the future be able to make you a lot of money in a casino or on the stock market??".
I remember the books I read as truly amazing and re-read books more than I read new ones but I think that if I was to go back and read them now they probably wouldn't be so great.
>Ranger's Apprentice
>Underland Chronicles
>Brotherband
>Fablehaven
>Septimus Heap

[Anonymous No.23274347]

>>23274149
Like I said, I get it's a book for kids and that very reason would drag them away from it, but as soon as you start asking questions the world itself falls apart. Even with suspension of disbelief there's only so much you can accept before it starts to get ridiculous and makes the characters not even feel like they could exist in that world because everyone would have to be braindead and making the worst decisions at all times.

The Time-Turner is a great example of that. If you take it at face value it's an interesting concept, but as soon as you think about it for all of five seconds it falls apart.

[Anonymous No.23275312]

>>23274347
>everyone would have to be braindead and making the worst decisions at all times.
Hey anon, I've seen some of the movies and read a little from a couple books, and that's all I'll ever see from this franchise, I don't need to see more because I don't think reading or watching any more of these will change my opinion; I think Harry Potter's groundwork is very strictly for the type of children's fantasy that it is at the begining, is a riff on The Worst Witch but for boys, and as such it's a little more action-oriented and thus it feels as if it has a little bit more lore and world building to offer, but it's just a silly kid's Halloween story in a school setting and the "world" is not meant to make much sense outside of "School is Halloweeny instead of normal." This works for the first or first couple installements, it's nowhere near "good" but I wouldn't say it's necessarilly "bad" either, it sits somewhere in the "okay" range, the problem with Harry Potter is that the people wrote these (JK and her assistants at Scholastic/WB) wanted to turn this The Worst Witch analog for little boys into an Star Wars or Lord of the Rings type of series, and "take it seriously" and "expand the world" and such, but the basis for something like that simply aren't there, I'd even argue the characters weren't even meant to grow up, certainly not from kids to adults, the wizarding community adults are silly and ill-informed about the world around them even though they have neighbors who are normal people, they teach kids magic version of school subjects instead of normal classes but they live surrounded by normal people whom they have to keep the magic secret from, the time turner which you mention is a great example; it's something that in another franchise would be treated with some level of respect, like only some very well trainned wizard would have access or the knowledge to use but in Harry Potter it's some trinket elementary school aged kids have very casual access to, the main bad guy is deathly afraid of dying but in their settings little kids interact very casually with ghosts to the point they befriend ghost kids that haunt in a toilet or talk about some ghost stuck in an attic like it's akin to having termites, you can't take the topic of death seriously in this franchise yet it wants you to take it seriously somehow. These are set-ups that make sense for a series aimed at younger kids, but you can't take that and pass it off for a series for teenagers and adults. Read Chrestomanci, I think that's what Harry Potter was trying to be like. I'd also recomend The Wheel of Time and Discworld, both very diferent series but both have Medieval Magic College type places and the world building and type of magic match the stories they are trying to tell.

[Anonymous No.23275969]

>>23270542
I'm going to take a bold stance: the Harry Potter books were written by an unreliable narrator whitewashing and completely re-writing history in a 1984 Ministry of Truth style. With that in mind
>How is everyone from the magical community okay with putting non-compliant people into the equivalent of Gitmo if they don't listen to the Ministry?
They're all under various hexes and curses. Those BORN into wizardry are the most affected, like the Outer Party, and are given all kinds of poison and potions and curses even when they're still in the womb, and it affects their memory and behavior.
>Why would you not try and spread magic genes to people while also helping Muggles understand it?
The wizards actually rule the world and use world leaders as puppets.
>They're already more dangerous than you are in most scenarios and the more technology advances the more true that becomes.
Which is why they create bread and circus distractions, and fake wars, to keep both muggles and wizards/witches in line.
Voldemort and his followers were in on the scam, same as Harry and Dumbledore. Fake agents, some of them didn't even exist and were manufactured wholsesale to sell the wizarding public into cheering for the MINISTRY. Yay! The bad guy lost! Back to work, back to the status quo. The next Voldemort or Grindelwald will come soon, a traitor from some noble family, and everyone will say we were always at war with Slytherins; what, we've never been at war with Durmstrang! How dare you!
>Why would anyone use magic to kill people when they have guns?
>Why not mute the gunfire with a spell or use various ways on invisibility?
Who says they don't? :^)
>How are there not wizard factories churning out potions like we churn out wine or cheese?
Only the Inner Part of wizards get access to that.
>>23270584
>How are people keeping all the magical animals and plants away from the public Muggle eyes?
Through their Muggle puppets running the UN, WEF, IMF, etc they control Muggle media too, and it's a simple matter of banning any cryptozoological discoveries.
>How can Hogwarts even upkeep Thestrals if almost no one can see them, breed them, or feed them?
The matter of thestrals is a common talking point used to keep people divided and distracted from reality.

[Anonymous No.23276012]

I like Harry Potter
As a kid the things I cared about was how could anybody live with the killing curse being unblockable and an instant death?
Also why hadn't I been given my Hogwarts letter yet?
As an adult the things I cared about when rereading the books was the same as when I was a kid although I guess the world building could be improved
I think Rowling had a good idea with the generational trauma thing, portraying the parents of the kids as having gone through a war
I wish we saw more of that and how it affected them
I wish we knew more about how the Wizarding world was like before Voldemort, what it was like during Voldemort's reign and what it was like after his fall
The existence and usage of the Dementors bothers me

[Anonymous No.23276032]

What if there was a time skip of a few years between half blood prince and the deathly hallows?

[Anonymous No.23276291]

>>23276012
>I wish we knew more about how the Wizarding world was like before Voldemort

[Anonymous No.23276296]

>>23275312
>I'd even argue the characters weren't even meant to grow up
"Harry Potter And The 12th Blasted Year"
...
"Will this ever end?" Harry quipped after he vomited up the snitch for the 27th time."

[Anonymous No.23276426]

>>23270542
In short, one with power and knowledge wants to maintain a balance between being a solitary owner of both and world being interesting for him.
Mages, as long as they have memory wipe and mind control, are OP as fuck. There are already too many rivals with power (that is, more than zero), but eliminating them all would make the world a lot duller. So it is important to maintain this number of rivals dynamic, but within small quantities, within as much control as possible and as less aggression as possible. Not all factors can be controlled, those, which can be, are not always can be controlled directly. So one wants to keep his system simple enough to be able to control and monitor it, complex enough for it to be less controllable and monitorable for his rivals, useful enough for himself and useless enough for everybody else. Everything of this is contradictory, hence compromises.