/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23268393]

everybody point and laugh

[Anonymous No.23268399]

>>23268393
He was right about pretty much everything

[Anonymous No.23268401]

>>23268393
at least he tried. what have you done anon?

[Anonymous No.23268405]

>>23268399
the only thing he was right about was that the end of history would be a sad and bleak time to be alive in

>>23268401
tried? what did he try? he's a literal shill that was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to write this

[Anonymous No.23268708]

The question that has occupied my mind for many years now is, why does modernity appear to be declining even though the world has objectively improved and become better for most people? The person who has come the closest to answering this is Nietzsche, but I'm not entirely satisfied with his genealogy of nihilism. Fukuyama's thesis led me to an updated version of this question; how is it that society is objectively becoming more liberal and democratic yet simultaneously the power of liberalism is in clear decline?

For this question, I have not yet found any answer, and I barely find anyone trying to contend with it at all. Most people are either retarded doomers who think the apocalypse is gonna happen and scoff at Fukuyama even though given the sheer boredom and inactivity in this point of history his thesis remains compelling, or they're complete shills for liberal globalism and actually think more gay sex and trannies in will make the world a utopia. I can't resolve this contradiction and it almost makes me question the entire foundation of every existing society because of that. America is clearly not as powerful as it once was, but the youth are becoming more muttified and liberalized than ever regardless.

[Anonymous No.23268715]

>>23268708
It's called Bowling alone Thesis.
Give a read.

[Anonymous No.23268840]

>>23268399
he was wrong about literally everything lmfao its a god-tier challenge to be more wrong than fukyomama was on the subject of post-USSR globalist utopianism

[Anonymous No.23268846]

>>23268708
>And, indeed, this is the odd thing that is continually happening: there are continually turning up in life moral and rational persons, sages and lovers of humanity who make it their object to live all their lives as morally and rationally as possible, to be, so to speak, a light to their neighbours simply in order to show them that it is possible to live morally and rationally in this world. And yet we all know that those very people sooner or later have been false to themselves, playing some queer trick, often a most unseemly one. Now I ask you: what can be expected of man since he is a being endowed with strange qualities? Shower upon him every earthly blessing, drown him in a sea of happiness, so that nothing but bubbles of bliss can be seen on the surface; give him economic prosperity, such that he should have nothing else to do but sleep, eat cakes and busy himself with the continuation of his species, and even then out of sheer ingratitude, sheer spite, man would play you some nasty trick. He would even risk his cakes and would deliberately desire the most fatal rubbish, the most uneconomical absurdity, simply to introduce into all this positive good sense his fatal fantastic element. It is just his fantastic dreams, his vulgar folly that he will desire to retain, simply in order to prove to himself--as though that were so necessary-- that men still are men and not the keys of a piano, which the laws of nature threaten to control so completely that soon one will be able to desire nothing but by the calendar. And that is not all: even if man really were nothing but a piano-key, even if this were proved to him by natural science and mathematics, even then he would not become reasonable, but would purposely do something perverse out of simple ingratitude, simply to gain his point. And if he does not find means he will contrive destruction and chaos, will contrive sufferings of all sorts, only to gain his point!

[Anonymous No.23268861]

>>23268846 >>23268708

[Anonymous No.23268866]

>>23268861 >>23268846 >>23268708

[Anonymous No.23268877]

>>23268866

[Anonymous No.23268909]

>>23268861
Old room had no air conditioning, plumbing, sprinklers, or electric lights.
The renovated room has all those things, but they had to install ceiling tiles to hide the ducts, pipes, and wires. Installing them in the old ceiling would've destroyed it. The fact that it still exists at all means someone wanted to preserve it. Modernity wins points for this one.

[Anonymous No.23268944]

>>23268393
fukuyama's thesis very much aligns with spengler. yet, everyone in this board shits on him while basedjakking over spengler. we have reached the stage of cultural ossification and liberal democracy is the final form. it can continue to go on like this forever, as it did in china, or it can be conquered by an external or internal proletariat. but fukuyama is misunderstood and is mostly correct.

[Anonymous No.23268986]

>>23268944
>fukuyama's thesis very much aligns with spengler
it absolutely does not you dumb nigger

[Anonymous No.23269048]

>>23268393
So is someone willing to actually tell me what he was wrong about? I haven't seen any ideology actually threaten to overthrow liberalism since this book was released.

[Anonymous No.23269053]

>>23268708
Humanists are materialists so you have to seek a materialist answer. Humanists base their society on commerce and bureaucracy and they refuse any kind of non-material life.

Humanists took power by genociding everybody, but they maintained power by luck: ie the scientific revolution. without this stuff, they would have had zero support from the plebs and zero material support to popularize firearms to fight, and cushy homes and cars to appeal the peasants.
Even the communists allegedly loving science bastardized it and it turns out science doesnt give a shit about politics so if you do shit science the price will be paid sooner or later. As usual it's the population which pays the biggest price and not the bureaucrats nor the merchants.
See the debacle about biology in communist russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko?useskin=vector

This is why with the stagnation of physics, they are shitting their pants because they struggle to feed people with easy material life.
They have two attempts to keep republics going on
-put all the cattle inside ''the internet economy'', giving them digital dollars and let the cattle scroll their phone screens all today long in their pods
-bet big on biology+IT to somehow create a new scientific revolution based on consciousness and IT hacks

There really isn't a republic without populism and feeding people with chinese crap to make the peasants believe they have purchasing power after 1. capitalists pay them very little wages 2. public servants tax heavily their wages.

I think the biology bet will be a huge dud and the ''living in pod consummating porn and weed all day by giving digital dollars to e-whores and e-drug dealers'' is way way more realistic.
There will be 2 societies: rich people living in the real world, and poor people living in the internet and not polluting the earth.

[Anonymous No.23269054]

>>23269048
>I haven't seen any ideology actually threaten to overthrow liberalism since this book was released.
what about fascism?

[Anonymous No.23269055]

>>23269048
He was right about this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_man
See the Title.

[Anonymous No.23269058]

>>23269054
Fascism is the humannist version of monarchy: being obsessed with being told what to do by a few generic bureaucrats turned into control freaks in order to secure their positions, since fascism being part of atheism and its circlekering over bureaucratic trifles, they have no external supernatural justification for being here, contrary to kings who claimed God put them in charge.
any solution to atheism will not be found with an new -ism from the plethora of -isms the atheists created due to their freedom of opinion and freedom of speech.

[Anonymous No.23269081]

>>23269058
define humanism

[Anonymous No.23269152]

>>23269048
china says hi!

[Anonymous No.23269161]

>>23269048
lol, america lost to Islamic theocrats in afghanistan, russia is currently annexing land in europe, and china will surpass america economically and militarily one day


so much for muh rule based order. amercian hegomony lasted for 30 years or so and now thats ending and we enter a multipolar world, its going to be violent and chaotic, like the pre 1940 world

[Anonymous No.23269185]

>>23268708
The reason why you find your question impossible is because you already have an implicit bias that technology automatically leads to progress. Or that the world is indeed in a decline for everyone. The global south for instance is booming, they have access to the internet, growing economies, better healthcare, stable governments, etc. The north on the other hand is grappling with the hubris of endless progress, the shortcuts, half measures and back stabbings that got you to the top and catching up with you.

[Anonymous No.23269190]

>>23268866
Most of that sharp decline happened in China and "poverty" is an arbitrarily moving line to begin with so it can't count as an objective metric of anything meaningful.
A better metric would be technological progress, which is the real thing lowering "poverty", but that hurts the credibility of the current liberal democracy order and promotes technocracy instead.

[Anonymous No.23269202]

he was right
>but le russia!
nothingburger
>but le china!
nothingburger
>but le drumpf!
nothingburger

[Anonymous No.23269204]

fuckyomama made his thesis in response to the fall of *soviet* socialism, which is hardly an indictment of socialism itself, just that russia is a backwards shithole in the first place. the success of china has consequently created the 1# threat to liberalism. liberalism, especially with neoliberalism enablement & rise of the current plutocracy and the states near helplessness to reign in it, will cause the current western status-quo (at least in the USA) to collapse into neo-fascism or potentially socialism in the future. even if liberalism is capable of putting forward a new-new-deal to unfuck the current macro-economic imbalances, on the near horizon is transhumanism as well, which fuckyomama has already written will not only completely undue liberalism, but will completely change everything, probably for the worse.

[Anonymous No.23269213]

>>23269204
his book on transhumanism is a hidden redpill

[Anonymous No.23269214]

>>23269152
>>23269161
Oh right, so its mainly just speculation that China will - at some point in the future - become bigger than America.
Fukuyama specifically addresses the possibility of national and religious-based conflicts. None of these are ideological challenges to Liberalism that actually have any potential to overthrow its dominance. Islam hasn't got a realistic chance of being taken up by Western atheist countries and Russia's conflict is not even a battle of ideology.
I won't rule out that one day China might be able to recreate the rule-based order one day, but let's wait until that actually happens before we start laughing at Fukuyama

[Anonymous No.23269218]

>>23269214
>Islam hasn't got a realistic chance of being taken up by Western atheist countries
It doesn't need to, the immigrants will replace the anti natalist atheists

[Anonymous No.23269224]

>>23269218
The anti-natalist atheists and their systems will still govern society regardless. Even when Muslims get elected in the West they’re all just secular libshits. Fear-mongering about Islamic takeover has always been the most pathetic, low IQ argument against liberalism.

[Anonymous No.23269233]

>>23269224
No they are not, muslims don't advocate for trannyisms and lgbt, they take the liberal policies that don't threaten them and advocate against the rest. Look at what's happening in europe with muslims celebrating the death of israelis, if you call their rights to do this liberal then you are taking it too far, and i am not fear mongering, i couldn't care less if they were to replace everyone.

[Anonymous No.23269243]

>>23268986
what did you hope to achieve by posting that infographic, you gorilla monkey ass nigger?

the symbols of high culture have degenerated into material decadence, ie market liberalism. there is no more vitality in the institutions, no new ideas, art becomes formulaic, there is nothing. the only difference is fukuyama mistakenly thinks this is some teleological endpoint, whereas spengler is a genius who understands it all as a cycle. still, spengler acknowledged that a civilization can lumber on for an incredibly long period of time in an ossified state.

[Anonymous No.23269285]

>>23269243
what did you hope to achieve by posting gothicc coombait? i posted the above infograph to point out that spengler's view of the civilizational lifecycle is significantly more developed & nuanced & historically cognizant than fukuyamas
>there is no more vitality in the institutions, no new ideas, art becomes formulaic, there is nothing. the only difference is fukuyama mistakenly thinks this is some teleological endpoint
this is all true but it was not the case when he wrote the text in the late 80s/early 90s during the fall of the USSR. fukuyamas thesis is entirely incompatible with spengler; if we imagined their contrasting societal models in religious, spengler is arguing for something like reincarnation or cyclical birth & destruction, while fukuyama's dumb ass thought that all of recorded human history amounted to nothing but a single linear progression towards western liberal democracy, like how christians view mortal life as a single linear progression towards an eternal afterlife

[Anonymous No.23269307]

How accurate is his depiction of Hegel's historicism? I read the original End of History paper for an essay I once wrote, but I didn't have the time then to read Hegel to check for myself.

[Anonymous No.23269315]

>>23268708
“Modernity” was an attitude invented during the Enlightenment and first implemented in revolutionary France. It is the idea that the world and the people there in are blank canvases or lumps of clay that can be reforged into a better world and perfected over time. This attitude is of course ridiculous and rejects the obvious fact that things have inherent natures which create inherent needs. This attitude was defeated when France was defeated but was let in the back door in the victorious powers and implemented over the course of the 21st century. Modernity was always going to fail you. The British council flats are the endpoint of modernism and you should read Theodore Dalrymple to see why.

[Anonymous No.23269320]

>>23269224
>The anti-natalist atheists and their systems will still govern society regardless.
i am 100% serious when i ask this
have you been living under a rock for the past 20 years, anon?

[Anonymous No.23269322]

>>23269315
>The British council flats are the endpoint of modernism and you should read Theodore Dalrymple to see why.
b b b based recommendation

[Anonymous No.23269329]

atheists are sex addicts and now
-they get sex cancer
-they stopped breeding
by 2100 those miscreants will be wiped out and there will be only Chinese and islamists remaining. Which side are you on knowing bipolar worlds do not work ?

the only thing i like from the chinese bureaucrats is that they dont give a shit about commerce, this means they dont give a shit about usury

If you want to kill democracy, you only have 2 options: support china or support islamists. I think china is the least evil.

[Anonymous No.23269351]

>>23269329
what a way to contradict yourself, chinese are atheists lmao, they are not even pagan

[Anonymous No.23269363]

>>23269204
>success of china
you mean the piggybacking off capitalism for a few decades until its inevitable and immediate collapse?

[Anonymous No.23269379]

>>23269363
2 more weeks

[Anonymous No.23269384]

>>23268393
>may be the freedom we defectively, moronically 'recognized' was the bodies of the unborn and those never yet to come we stacked along the way

>>23268708
>why does modernity appear to be declining even though the world has objectively improved and become better for most people?

Objective Freedom requires the State (as it facilitates and administers Law). The State's foundation lies in Religion & Family as the vessels of the development of man's recognition of his true nature-- freedom. Godless Atheist Para-Communist Shitliberal Pinkoism is immanent to aforementioned's partisans from the 'Left' totalizing metaphysical anarchy. In otherwords: increasingly pure, unadulturated Narcissism. Baby Boomers embody this black magic alkahest like no other benighted generation of demonic soul migrant cicadas before them. You are not and cannot be free without an eye on the ulttimate end of all this-- life's a mystery, or life's a chore. Defective Finite in-itself (and AGAINST itself) consciousness isn't content to make its bed and lie in it, but to make you go first for averring otherwise. Self-flagellations of the re-paganized digitally & concretely deterriorialized barbarians will continue until until the end of the world "the death of death" IF they are simply allowed to march non-Last Men off the cliff at gun point (or Earth-Crab Barrel clawing).

[Anonymous No.23269395]

>>23269053
>They have two attempts to keep republics going on
And they refuse to countenance the a third (political agency is just as intensively apportioned as actual free will-- persons of bad moral character and/or under a certain IQ threshold would be content for basic apodictic protections as equals under the law WITHOUT ONE MAN ONE VOTE in a functional representative republic) Restoring functionality would require oligarchic heads to roll and the law observed to the letter & spirit. So this trainwreck will have to keep watching itself into the bottomless gorge barring sensible limited political suffrage with at least weighted, scaled voting.

[Anonymous No.23269399]

>>23269053
lmao how is the scientific revolution luck? Humans have been accelerating towards it since we started sharpening rocks to cut meat, you humanities retards need a little dose of science.

[Anonymous No.23269411]

>>23269384
Maybe you should not be free. Maybe you should be subordinated

[Anonymous No.23269418]

>>23269329
>atheists
Overloaded term. You are trying to fit Marquis de Sade and Dawkins together.

>they stopped breeding
Back in the past, children were truly yours, nowadays they are the State's. There are a lot of obligations and almost zero profit in having them.

People who continue to produce children are either:
1. two-digit-IQ imbeciles
2. ambitious billionaires.

Which one are you, Elon?

>atheists
but the funny thing is: the ideal religious type, throughout history, was a monastic anchorite. The very type of person that definitely won't procreate.

christians, in particular, kept organizing things like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoptsy

You are not in position to dare to blurb something about breeding.

[Anonymous No.23269885]

>>23268708
The world has "objectively improved" only insofar as "security of the person" has improved. In most of the developed world, someone doing the bare minimum is fairly safe, secure and taken care of. The data bears this out, violence is down, poverty is down, joblessness is down, education is up, healthcare is better, technology is better, etc.
I think the observation you are making in "appears to be in decline" is capturing the "Soul Factor", if you will. Human to human contact is down, as the internet captured everything. At least in America, common "meeting houses" have vanished as real estate prices ballooned and retail died.
When I was a 16 year old boy, we couldn't wait until Friday rolled around, school let out and we descended on the local mall to get up to all sorts of teenage hijinks: chasing girls, smoking by the dumpster, having a bite at the food court, general mall rat stuff.
I hear stories from the youth and I weep for them... what do they have. Discord? The malls have closed. There are so few places for people to just "exist together" anymore (especially teenagers).
Of course - it doesn't have to be a mall (just my personal anecdote), but it extrapolate it to any of the old "meeting houses": church, the bowling alley (>>23268715), getting a milkshake at the diner like Happy Days, etc.
We have been given the most convenient lives in history, but in pursuit of that, we lost the plot.
I'm curious if Europeans feel this too. I'm an American living in Europe and it feels like Europe still has some of this "soul" left. On Friday evenings I go to the city center and there are people all around just existing together. I hadn't felt that in America for a long time.

[Anonymous No.23269897]

>>23269885
>I'm curious if Europeans feel this too.
they do. Parents keep saying that 40 years ago they could let the kids alone in the suburbs and countryside. Now they say they can't.

[Anonymous No.23269952]

>>23268708
>why does modernity appear to be declining


It doesn't.

[Anonymous No.23269992]

>>23269897
Maybe I'm in an outlier area insofar as Europe goes; posh Amsterdam suburbs.

[Anonymous No.23270014]

>>23268708
Technology subverts the importance of man. Man thrives through meaning and meaning emerges from struggle, challenges, curiosity, knowledge. Technology severely diminishes these things so man's existence is left bereft of meaning. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.23270096]

>>23269320
Who do you think governs the West, seriously? Islamic theocrats? The West is the throne of liberalism and always will be

[Anonymous No.23270155]

>>23269233
>muslims don't advocate for trannyisms and lgbt
Sadiq Khan does

[Anonymous No.23270164]

>>23269161
>lol, america lost to Islamic theocrats in afghanistan, russia is currently annexing land in europe, and china will surpass america economically and militarily one day
But you see if we redefine all three groups as true liberalism he is still right

[Anonymous No.23270170]

>>23270096
>Islamic theocrats
In the UK? It's trending that way. Right you have a mixture of Hindus and Pakistanis dominating their government, as things destabilize their more extreme are going to have more influence
You are already starting to see Ireland destabilize because of this

[Anonymous No.23270182]

>>23268708
>even though the world has objectively improved and become better for most people?
Is it so impossible to realize official US statistics might be lying about the actual condition of the economy? The USSR lied about theirs for the 20 years before they collapsed.

[Anonymous No.23270259]

>>23269885
There’s a degree of decline that’s absolutely undeniable. American hegemony is waning and it has been humiliated in Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine and now Gaza. Creative and cultural decline is obvious to everyone -- mass media is unoriginal, repetitive and vastly inferior to previous generations. Younger children today simply don't live as well as their parents raised in the second half of the 20th century did. Marriage, fertility, economic opportunity, male-female relations, etc are just blatantly on the downturn. The fabric of society is so corrupted that countries like South Korea are at a terminal risk.

At the same time, it's hard to say that this decline is absolute. Most people still embrace liberal values and modern teleological views about progress. Developed countries are still the safest and most secure in human history. There's no true competition to the liberal West. America has declined in power but culturally it's more dominant than ever -- everyone speaks English, consumes American media and if they don't emigrate to America then they imitate it like Saudi Arabia. This is the contradiction I'm trying to work out. No matter how much liberalism has negatively impacted society, everyone's solution is still to just have more liberalism. We simply need more freedom and more progress and more rights and then everything will be fixed. It makes me think that our decline is relative but no existential.

Nothing seriously threatens the way of life we have right now and no one dares to try anything else. Just look at the aforementioned Saudi Arabia, an Islamic theocracy that gained all the power they could've wanted and instead of building some Islamic futurist society they just built pointless sci-fi cities that will be abandoned and a hundred million KFCs next to their holy sites. That is a sign of profound creative collapse in the world.

[Anonymous No.23270274]

>>23268708
>how is it that society is objectively becoming more liberal and democratic yet simultaneously the power of liberalism is in clear decline?

Define “decline”, where is it declining and how is it declining? Where is it becoming more liberal?

[Anonymous No.23270282]

>>23270274
Read my post above.

[Anonymous No.23270284]

>>23270259
>Humiliated in Afghanistan
>Occupy it for decades and have the opposing fighters cowering in caves
>leave because there’s no need to be there anymore
>DUDE AMERICA WAS HECKING DEFEATED BY A RAG TAG GROUP OF FREEDOM FIGHTERS

Pure propaganda and nonsense. You’re buying narratives without a thought.

[Anonymous No.23270295]

>>23270284
>ukraine
>russias multi year 2 week operation no end in sight and thousands dead
>ZOMG ITS OVA FOR DA MERICA

[Anonymous No.23270303]

>>23270282
>dude everything is on the decline because…it just is!! Everyone knows it!
Bad post

[Anonymous No.23270307]

>>23270284
>>23270295
>>23270303
take it to r/neoliberalism please

[Anonymous No.23270336]

>>23270259
>American hegemony is waning
>everyone speaks English, consumes American media and if they don't emigrate to America then they imitate it
>Nothing seriously threatens the way of life we have right now and no one dares to try anything else

So why exactly do you think American hegemony is waning? Because after twenty years of military occupation, they finally gave up on nation building halfway around the world?

>No matter how much liberalism has negatively impacted society, everyone's solution is still to just have more liberalism

Maybe because people actually like having rights and freedoms. Maybe liberalism has been a net benefit. Maybe many of the problems you mention are problems of technological society more broadly, and not specific to liberalism.

[Anonymous No.23271125]

>>23270336
It's so much of a net benefit that it promises nuclear destruction, anti-natalism and environmental dystopia

[Anonymous No.23271132]

>>23271125
Are you saying nukes are a liberal invention? If anything the only nations that have been dickwaving their nuclear arsenals in recent history are decidedly not liberal.

[Anonymous No.23271154]

>>23271132
Liberalism is unique in its destruction of the earth and its capacity for self-renunciation to achieve its goals to the point of pure nihilism

[Anonymous No.23271177]

>>23271132
mate the USA has been the major leader in causing nuclear arms races, everyone has responded in kind to US threats ranging from nuking Hanoi to belts of Colbalt to contemporary first strike and pro-ABM policies. and considering all the liberal jews who wanted to nuke berlin with the first bombs, yes, it was a liberal invention

[Anonymous No.23271214]

What do they teach American kids about "liberalism"? They seem to find it confusing that you get different types (classical, neo, social etc).

Considering america is the great liberal democratic experiment and torchbearer I've always found their lack of ability to understand and define liberalism in its various guises beguiling.

[Anonymous No.23271264]

90% of the hate this book gets is from people who haven't actually read it. His description of the liberalism that won (much as Kojeve's) is not particularly flattering, but he simply argues that in a society formed by peoples' thymotic urges, reciprocal equal recognition (in the Hegelian sense) is the only viable steady state of human society, and only liberalism has been able to achieve that so far. He is giving us (radicals, both on the right and left) a better understanding of why we've failed. And possibly, implicitly, a blueprint for the way out

[Anonymous No.23271445]

>>23271264
Exactly this. Fukuyama is a great resource and scholar no matter how low-IQ and retarded his worldview is, because at least he sufficiently explains why this worldview was invented and why it triumphs. He gets too much hate on principle of people disagreeing with this book. You should hate him because he's a vampiric ghoul but not because he writes informative books

[Anonymous No.23271817]

>>23268393
There is no end of history. It exists in a cycke of strong and weak men. The strong create good times. The weak create bad times, which we live in

[Anonymous No.23271884]

>>23268708
Huxley answered this like 80 years ago in Brave New World Revisited
It's the consolidation of power through technology. The erosion of democracy is because of overpopulation - it's success.

[Anonymous No.23271947]

>>23270182
>Is it so impossible to realize official US statistics might be lying about the actual condition of the economy?
reminder that during covid, the US government (might have been the federal reserve?) changed their official definition of the term "recession" about a week before their quarterly economic report was released and because of that, they just barely avoided being in a recession, purely because of that technicality
you can bet all your dollars they are doing similar things with other aspects of the economy

[Anonymous No.23271961]

>>23270259
>This is the contradiction I'm trying to work out. No matter how much liberalism has negatively impacted society, everyone's solution is still to just have more liberalism.
would YOU leave the easy life and take the road less travelled?

[Anonymous No.23271969]

>>23271947
Every jobs report for the past two years broke expectations by a large amount but them have been revised downward significantly the following month when it's not reported on

[Anonymous No.23271975]

>>23268840
Care to give examples? Ragtag islamic terrorism is hardly an existential threat against liberal democratic hegemony.

[Anonymous No.23271989]

>>23271975
china

[Anonymous No.23272137]

>>23268399
My favorite part is when he acknowledged that Nazi Germany proved his entire theory wrong but said he would ignore it because lol

[Anonymous No.23272139]

>>23269185
>The global south is booming
You what? Every time I, as an American, complain about something online, a Brazilian will appear as if from the ether and start typing a novella about how everything there is far worse and getting worse every day.

>Stable governments
What planet do you live in? Did you know that Peru is part of the global south? South America in general is a mess. In Africa, there's a third Congo War brewing, Ethiopia is being run by a whirling dervish who rattles his sabre at a new neighbor every month, Niger just went through a coup causing tension in the Sahel, a civil war started not long ago in Sudan, and South Africa looks like it's about to collapse. Also, all of Asia forgot how to put a penis into a vagina.

The whole world looks like it's on the brink of a titanic shitstorm.

[Anonymous No.23272141]

>>23268401
>what have you done anon?
I've gone two days without gooning

[Anonymous No.23272152]

>>23268708
>the world has objectively improved and become better for most people
It hasn't
>Fukuyama's thesis led me to an updated version of this question; how is it that society is objectively becoming more liberal and democratic yet simultaneously the power of liberalism is in clear decline?
To answer within Fukashimas own framework, atomized individualism destroys Thumos while a rooted cultural and ethnic identity exalts Thumos.

[Anonymous No.23272158]

>>23268944
Fukuyama literally says that he disagrees with Spengler and spends a significant portion of the book defending linear history from Spengler

[Anonymous No.23272161]

>>23269058
Now this is boomer posting

[Anonymous No.23272169]

>>23272137
this is a funny point people don't mention, he readily acknowledges that it's perfectly possible to have a successful technological state without liberalism, but liberalism is the only system that should be considered because it's the most popular

[Anonymous No.23272202]

>>23271817
Damn if only Fukuyama saw that meme before he wrote his book

[Anonymous No.23272238]

>>23272161
it's just the definition of fascism

[Anonymous No.23272258]

>>23271975
>Ragtag islamic terrorism is hardly an existential threat against liberal democratic hegemony.
What a massive pile of cope lmao
>Y-yeah our 40 year occupation failed, b-but we'll get em next time!

[Anonymous No.23272274]

>>23272258
Oh no, what will liberal democracy do without bumfuck Afghanistan?

[Anonymous No.23272333]

>>23272274
Well it has harmed our opium production

[Anonymous No.23272339]

>>23272333
Oh well. There’s always another 3rd population ripe for America to turn into trannies

[Anonymous No.23272427]

>>23272139
That doesn't mean what i said is untrue retard. War can be happening in a few countries while the rest prosper, just because you listed 10 countries that have it bad doesn't mean the rest 100 have not been improving for the past 30 yrs.

[Anonymous No.23272457]

>the CIA sabotages every single international attempt to counter liberalism
>hmmm why can't any system counter liberalism??

[Anonymous No.23272462]

>>23272274
>Oh no, what will liberal democracy do with a critically demoralized population that refuses to enlist to defend liberal democracy?

[Anonymous No.23272491]

>>23272457
Yeah, why are they so vulnerable?

[Anonymous No.23272498]

>>23272491
vulnerable to the same thing everything else is vulnerable to, you mean?

[Anonymous No.23272524]

>>23269048
Liberalism failed in the west lol, except I guess you are some mutt who equates leftism to liberalism

[Anonymous No.23272530]

>>23272457
>my system can only work in a world where no other hostile power exists
great system

[Anonymous No.23272539]

>>23269161
And then immediately Afghanistan has settled into managerial capitalism and has been rapidly pursuing normalization, China has been more liberal than the US for decades now, and all Russia has done is regress to a more primitive form of capitalism.

[Anonymous No.23272554]

>>23272539
delusional

[Anonymous No.23272555]

>>23269161
>america lost to Islamic theocrats in afghanistan
i mean they may have not successfully colonized it but i don't think you can really say they "lost" in the sense of being militarily defeated, which is the point you're trying to make
it's not like the people of afghanistan are going to invade and annex america, lol
>russia is currently annexing land in europe
their own former lands, and russia is and always has been a european power
> and china will surpass america economically and militarily one day
never going to happen because china is is a terrible country geographically
the fact that the chinese would starve by the hundreds of millions just from a food blockade because 80% of their food is imported does not bode well for any militaristic future
for china to become a military superpower, it would need to have a degree of autarky
america has a huge advantage in this respect as they're not only well situated but they can be completely self-sufficient both in terms of food and energy
even russia has a bigger chance than china because, in spite of its poor borders, it has good agricultural yield and ton of natural gas and other resources at their disposal
not to mention that russia is going to benefit from global warming whereas china is going to get completely fucked over by it
the people who think china is going to be some massive empire that controls all of asia are completely delusional, at best they'll get the americans out and create some sort of asian version of the EU where they can be germany, but china does not have the geography and resources to dominate the continent

[Anonymous No.23272560]

>>23272524

If you actually read the book you would know what liberalism means in this context. Essentially liberal states in international relations are those who have free markets and democracy. Relative to the fascist and communist states of the 20th century these are liberal, even if among these states there is a lot of variation. There is no distinction made between the Scandinavian social democracies and the US and Japan.

[Anonymous No.23272567]

>>23272560
Even this very specific and convenient definition fails because there hasnt been a free market since 2008 and democracy is a sham

[Anonymous No.23272569]

>>23272567
t. retard

[Anonymous No.23272575]

>>23272569
do you disagree?

[Anonymous No.23272578]

>>23272569
Our heavily regulated oligopoly isnt a "free market" and in Germany they want to ban a party for doing well in polls while in America the fair election of a political outsider lead to the complete abandonment of most pretences of democracy.
You can cry about it all you want but liberalism failed. More than two centuries of theory and its just a piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.23272581]

>>23272274
>Oh no, what will liberal democracy do without bumfuck Afghanistan?
If we can do fine without bumfucks, why were we all up in those bumfucks? We are we still in like a few dozens?

[Anonymous No.23272584]

>>23272575
you're the typical contrarian tard with nothing useful to say
it's kinda like arguing with someone on whether or not subliminal messages are a thing only to get a retard like you coming in to say
>UHHHM AKHSHUALLY, FREE WILL DOESN'T EXIST AT ALL
well that's great, faggot, thanks for this riveting information i'm sure nobody else knew before you brought it up

[Anonymous No.23272590]

>>23272581
keeping them down
nixon fucked over everyone by letting the chinese rise and industrialize
every non-western power should be kept at a subsistence level and forced to buy manufactured goods from us at ridiculous prices, that's the key to a good system (for us)

[Anonymous No.23272592]

>>23272578
t. retard

[Anonymous No.23272594]

>>23272569
hes right though (even though 2008 isn't the right year to date it exactly). neoliberalism re-branded gilded-age oligopoly/monopolistic capitalism as free market fundamentalism and hoodwinked boomers into selling out long term economic security to developing nations and a disgusting emerging globalist plutocracy who seized control of the consolidating national economy (/pol/tards say jews, but whatever). said plutocracy, in tandem with the defense states chokehold around our foreign policy and defense spending, has turned this country into a managed democracy at best, a kakistocractic oligarchy at worse. a lenin-braudel conceptualization of capitalism being anti-market flips the script and outs the current order as a bankrupted liberalism that has disempowered the states rightful place in regulating big business, providing a social safety net, and not being a direct instrument for a class of criminals who evade taxes by the trillions and rape and murder kids on exotic islands.

[Anonymous No.23272595]

>>23272584
>"free market" and "democracy" "work" by not being actually free or democratic, and just serving as an excuse for the powerful to get even more power
>it "works" by making them ever more powerful
>that never happened before

[Anonymous No.23272599]

>>23272590
>every non-western power should be kept at a subsistence level and forced to buy manufactured goods from us at ridiculous prices, that's the key to a good system
Unless they get nukes, of course.

Thank G-d none of them have any nukes.

[Anonymous No.23272605]

>>23272592
So because medieval feudalism was neither communist nor fascist it was actually liberal?
>Fukoshima logic

[Anonymous No.23272614]

Not exactly germane to the discussion but:
>Be America.
>Invade Canada.
>Invade Canada again.
>OK. Lesson learned. No more fucking around with other people in other parts of the world.
>Invade Mexico.
>Invade Cuba and Philippines.
>Korea.
>Vietnam.
>OK. Lesson learned. No more fucking around with other people in other parts of the world.
>Iraq.
>Afghanistan.
>OK. Lesson learned. No more fucking around with other people in other parts of the world.
Anyway, what I want to know is, where is the next great crusade where America can throw a trillion dollars down a hole for dubious results?
I don't think Ukraine nor Gaza are going to be anything more than sideshows. Haiti beckons, but America's not playing fair by charging right in.
So ... where next are they going to be all liberally democratic and stuff?

[Anonymous No.23272622]

>>23272614
Nowhere, the American empire is on the retreat.
You will never see an operation desert storm again

[Anonymous No.23272623]

>>23272605
no it's more about the fact that this was a discussion whether western supremacy has triumphed, called it whatever you will, not a debate about what liberalism means at its core or should represent
the fact that liberalism is "dead" in 2024 doesn't change the fact that the west still owns all these "illiberal" shitholes
i don't give a shit about semantics, i care about power dynamics

[Anonymous No.23272629]

>>23272594
>still stuck in tradcuck conspiracyland
stop watching jay dyer and grand theft world it's rotting your brain

[Anonymous No.23272638]

>>23272623
>i care about power dynamics
Fukuyama's whole point is that there are no dynamics, that it's a static now.

We now know that this claim was utterly bullshit. You are coping with
>"all those dynamics are not really dynamic and don't matter, yeah we got heavily involved in all of those but we did that just like, out of boredom or something they don't mean anything really. Ultimately my massa's GDP > your massa's GDP, therefore my massa is da Big Massa and is forever
Which is kinda turbo-gay.

[Anonymous No.23272639]

>>23272622
I dunno. I think they got enough for one more fail crusade in 'em before the final "shouldn't have been fucking around with other people, etc." lesson.
Just one more.

[Anonymous No.23272649]

>>23272638
>my massa's GDP > your massa's GDP
Which is hardly even true anymore, but let's see how that doesn't matter either.

Countdown to fukuyamatards switching gears to "the spirit of liberalism" being like "still omnipresent".

Then they'll go like "it's gone but we never argued that it can't be gone and it was better so you faggots made the world worse". They literally are the new regressive conservatives and they don't even realize that.

[Anonymous No.23272651]

>>23272629
i literally dont know what either of those two people/things are. all i said is a condensation of social political-economics and deep politics, sorry you are so retarded and unread the only way you have to relate are literal-who podcast fags

[Anonymous No.23272662]

>>23272623
>I care about power dynamics
The competency crisis making complex systems unsustainable? The waste of billions into bogus energy sources and the nig spic cycle? Losing in the Ukraine, Yemen, Israel, Niger and Haiti?
I have heard this "power dynamics" shit come up more and more over the last few years, to me its just the barkings of a cornered dog who wants to get at least one last bite in before being put down, or more accurately for the "liberal west": wither away with a whimper

>>23272639
Nah, the world police era is over.

[Anonymous No.23272677]

>>23272567
>>23272594
another zoomer take. Liberalism was not created post ww2. The truth is that what the plebs calls "corruption" is the normal process of democracy, because democracy is the tool used by the bourgeois to base society on bureaucracy and commerce. so when civil servants and business men ''collude'', in fact they just enjoy the fruit of their revolutions

The narrative that somehow bureaucrats are the enemy of the business men is a lie fed to the peasants so that the peasant would participate in the bourgeois revolutions.

[Anonymous No.23272687]

>>23272677
Nomenklatura

[Anonymous No.23272697]

>>23272662
>Nah, the world police era is over.
Not yet. One more. My prediction? They'll have another '90s style Panama. Then everything will finally fall apart.

[Anonymous No.23272706]

>>23272697
Two more weeks and the Houthi are finished.

[Anonymous No.23272710]

>>23272677
>democracy is neo-patrimonial corruption
liberals states are premised upon a strong and independent bureaucracy + rule of law, the anti-thesis of what you just described. the new deal order established this but it got hollowed out by redbaiting and the eventual retard pederast reaganite revolution. in fact what you described fukuyama directly calls out in his two books on political order & decay as being against the liberal order he upheld in the end of history

[Anonymous No.23272771]

>>23272567
The People's Republic of China thougheverbeit

[Anonymous No.23272812]

>>23272567
And what would you consider the state of democracy and free markets to be at the time when Fukuyama wrote his book?

[Anonymous No.23272814]

>>23272771
The CCP uses non-market tools and interventions even more liberally than the US government tho

[Anonymous No.23272818]

>>23272812
free markets were already being cornered and curbed by oligopolistic corporations let lose by the reagan revolution

[Anonymous No.23272851]

you have to understand that free markets is only the public propaganda to fit their dogma of freedom of entrepreneurship, which atheists define as the real freedom.

But when Merchants are established on a market, they don't want free markets, they want their monopoly and they go to their friendly bureaucrats to castrate the market the merchants want, so that they can enjoy watching their crippled competitors dying slowly.
Protectionism has always been the goal of any democracy. And in democracy you really have to separate
-the public propaganda used by humanists before they took power

-the public propaganda used by humanists after they killed feudalism, which is a new liberalism to be fed to the proletariat

-the private propaganda once they have had free reins and their enemy has been killed for 2 centuries already

[Anonymous No.23273317]

>>23272457
Yeah then Fukuyama also acknowledges that countries like Spain were forced to accept liberalism by America

[Anonymous No.23273318]

>>23272457
>support reactionary B over reactionary A because reactionary B is poor and has brownoids living in it

[Anonymous No.23273334]

>>23268393
Fukuyama never said that conflict would stop in his end of history. Also every country pays lip service to democracy and has embraced some degree of capitalism. Even Russia has to pretend to have elections and shit.

[Anonymous No.23273357]

>>23268708
I think it’s up for debate whether anything has objectively improved. I guess we can say that modernity objectively lifted the bottom bound out of disease and poverty in strictly quantitative rather than quality terms, but we’ve also suppressed everything above a historical middle, and replaced the traditional elite of culture, religion, wisdom, and war with an elite of media and money for the most part. It’s been catastrophic for human dignity, the good life, the sort of quality of life anyone above those historically stuck to the lower-middle bound or lower might have aspired to. We’ve made the world ugly, focused mainly on finance and other materialistic arenas of life. Nobility, virtue, these things have been all but cast aside and feel out of reach for those who aspire to them. As for the economic and quantifiable “progress” that’s been made, it came as a double-edged sword. On one hand, there are fewer people living in extreme poverty in Africa and elsewhere. On the other hand, there are more people living in constant economic precarity and false security via debt in the West than there ever has been in history. People are more mentally ill, depressed, hopeless, suicidal than they’ve ever been. The sense is very much that what modernity has done is make life a whole lot better for a two groups, the top 5% of cosmopolitan entrepreneurs and professionals and a the extremely poor, sick, oppressed. Everyone else is living with more things, but worse lives. Even leisure is not really leisure anymore. Almost nobody has any leisure, but among those who do, they can’t help but spend their leisure consuming or working (out). More people than ever have jobs which are comfortable, but that’s not leisure, and comfort can bring with it it’s special hell.

Frankly, there are arguments to be made that material improvement has occurred in modernity but what seems to me just absolutely unquestionably and obviously true is that modernity has undignified and degraded human life. It often feels like people are nothing more than resources to feed the machine, and we even speak this way openly in our institutions with departments called “Human Resources”. The traditional view of man in Western history is one where man has inherent dignity, but must suffer as a consequence of life. So the aim of life was to achieve freedom and greatness and an obligation of stewardship, and in doing so maximize dignity while accepting the inherent suffering in life. What modernity has aimed for is the opposite. Modernity has sought to totally eliminate suffering, and failed, obviously, because suffering is a necessary part of life, and totally cast aside the pursuit of maximizing dignity in the process. The sort of Classical, Medieval, and Renaissance man that aims at a dignified and unified life is totally absent today. You literally cannot find him. Everyone is injured and traumatized in some way and brutalized by the machine.

[Anonymous No.23273365]

>>23268708
As for why liberalism is in decline there are 2 reasons. For the 1st, we must read the authors of liberal ideology and see clearly that they were frankly delusional utopians. It is self-evident. Their aims could never have been achieved as they were not rooted in principles or recognition of reality. Liberalism is a historical failure in that regard. And for the 2nd, we can detect it in Thomas Jefferson and Tocqueville. Liberalism lost to machine politics. The progressive era rendered liberalism null and void. Today, it stands helpless in view of utopian progressives most of all but also modernist and futurist reactionaries. The insistence on rights, denial of politics and religion, and desperate desire to make peace so as to turn the whole of life into a market with the use of human and civil were an Achilles heel for liberalism. Do I not have a positive right to stamp out racism in a liberal view? Do I not have a right to preserve my own culture and ethnic? Liberalism cannot muster answers to these questions because the method by which it preserves freedom it also hampers it in the name quality. And in the end it nullifies itself and results in a failed project.

[Anonymous No.23273369]

>>23268909
Are you retarded? The point is precisely that modernity plasters over what is eternally good and beautiful for a fleeting moment of comfort for people who do not even need it and perhaps don’t even necessarily want it. An air conditioned life under fluorescent lights is a more hellish existence than a life beneath the grandeur and beauty of a baroque ceiling and natural lighting. We are creatures of nature after all, and the more we try to deny that, the more we suffer, if not physically then mentally, emotionally, spiritually. This is air conditioned hell that Henry Miller called it.

[Anonymous No.23273386]

>>23273357
It’s worse than this actually. Modernity didn’t just bring a displacement of the good life. It brought trauma and destruction the likes of which have never been seen before. Modernity is every bit about global war, nuclear bombs, carpet bombs, drone strikes, funding, recruiting, training, and arming groups like Hamas and ISIS that go off and commit highly destructive acts of terrorism and war, funding the Ukrainian government to conscript their own men, women, and yes, children to die for a politician who has never even been around a rifle, of bottom surgeries for kids, of men dying in oil fields so that an obese person can wear polyester leggings, of all of these horrible and traumatizing things. It’s not merely that modernity makes education shitty, makes art shitty, makes religion gay (literally), makes the army (trans) literally, eliminated heroism, virtue, dignity all of these things. It’s also a fucking car wreck. You’re driving along in your little air conditioned pod sitting on your ass all comfortable and “free” when all of the sudden some retarded psycho in an F-250 nodding off on fentanyl slams into your car killing your wife and three children, a trauma from which you will never recover and no amount of air conditioning will erase. That is modernity in a nut shell.

[Anonymous No.23273423]

>>23268866
>farmers in 1800 with their own land didn't own cheap chinese made flatscreen tvs so they were living in poverty

[Anonymous No.23273457]

>>23273386
Modernity didn't start with the gulf war nor with 9/11 or whatever. Modernity started with the bourgeois revolutions. Their societies haven't changed one bit ever since. It's still a republic relying on the nepotism between bureacrts and business men, and feeding the dogma to the peasants that they should live vicariously through what businessmen and civil servants do and say in public, whereas businessmen and civil servants do in private the opposite of what they claim in public.

[Anonymous No.23273470]

>>23273386
Liberal modernity is literally just nihilism. The entire project is about the self-renunciation of man although it claims to pursue the freedom of man. Fukuyama himself is always unambiguous about saying this, verbatim he acknowledges the entire point of liberalism is to restrict human ambition and dignity because men cannot be trusted to utilize technology for good. Liberalism is a completely negative worldview that purports itself to be the most positive. Hence why we are threatened with existential crises like nuclear war, climate change, AI, population collapse, etc.

The end goal of liberalism is the demise of human civilization and a singularity with technological slavery. Look around you. Nobody in liberal society has any positive vision of the future whatsoever. None at all. They take pride in the fact that this is “the end” in their eyes. They don’t have children, they don’t believe in any transcendent values, mass media is stagnant and regurgitated because no one can think of anything new, people have no real identity for themselves anymore. Men and women hate each other, we consume sex more than we have sex, men are so pathetic they castrate themselves and pretend to be women, we sit around these stupid fucking podcast tables debating about the issues of our day but take absolutely no physical action against the technocrat ghouls who are trying to lay waste to the world. This is not a society that will create goodness, dignity and nobility. And that’s the entire point.

[Anonymous No.23273591]

>>23271214
Political commentators since Tocqueville have observed that Americans generally aren't interested in political theory at all. Since it's a young nation born of the serendipitous confluence of English common law and Enlightenment ideals, Americans have never had the sense that there was a real alternative to their political system, and hence, no real need to understand liberalism in abstract, as opposed to its practice.

[Anonymous No.23273608]

>>23272274
Getting Afghanistan really wasn't going to matter. But losing Afghanistan does matter, since it was supposed to be a showcase of what American tutelage could make out of a backward Islamic country. The failure is psychologically damaging to liberalism.

[Anonymous No.23273660]

>>23268986
Spengler explicitly states in Vol. 1 the Indian prime symbol is Zero and never mentions the prime symbols of the Sumerian and Mexican civilizations

[Anonymous No.23273985]

>>23268393
Perhaps there is a failure of imagination for Fukuyama to predict another form of government besides capitalist liberal democracies as the final form of human freedom, but it feels like many people critical of his thesis never even read the book or truly understand his ideas. Fukuyama doesn't argue all states will inevitably become liberal democracies, or the ideology is bulletproof and will never lose. His probing of the weaknesses of material abundance and loss of meaningful struggle from the end of a geopolitical rival or adversarial ideology leading to the Last Man was quite prophetic.

[Anonymous No.23274339]

>>23272457
The socialist systerm is so weak that glowies can easily bend it over and fuck it in the ass.
I dunno this marxist shit sounds like garbage to me, it sounds like it deserved to fail. Especially consider all of those systems are run filthy hypocrites.

[Anonymous No.23274350]

>>23269190
China is capitalist

[Anonymous No.23274422]

>>23272141
Well bros, I gooned today. Guess fukuyama has one over me now

[Anonymous No.23274583]

>turned 20th century R*ssia into a superpower
Communism would produce the greatest country in history if it was actually tried someplace other than an irredeemable shithole

[Anonymous No.23274647]

>>23271961
That is what makes Fukuyama ultimately correct. Liberalism, despite its flaws, is so stable and creates so much peace relative to other systems that nobody is willing to even attempt creating an alternative. Creating an alternative society requires war, bloodshed, intellectual movement and sacrifice. Nobody today wants those things, hence why Nietzsche might have the last laugh as Fukuyama concedes.

[Anonymous No.23275205]

>>23274350
>NOT REAL COMMUNISM!

[Anonymous No.23275352]

>>23272169
>that it's perfectly possible to have a successful technological state without liberalism
Name 17 examples other than Singapore (although it is economically liberal).

[Anonymous No.23275358]

>>23275352
China
UAE
Saudi Arabia
Qatar
Kuwait
Oman
Nazi Germany

[Anonymous No.23275523]

>>23275352
Nazi Germany

[Anonymous No.23275572]

Niggers out here really acting like the US has been dominating the globe for 1000 fucking years, liberalism has been in power for an eye blink and its probably not even gonna beat china, lets see if nothing continues to ever happen into our old age shal we.

[Anonymous No.23275636]

>>23275205
>CHINA IS COMMUNIST BECAUSE... WELL IT JUST IS, OKAY!

[Anonymous No.23275646]

>>23275636
It's communist because it's a communist state ruled by a communist party

[Anonymous No.23275737]

>>23275646
>north korea is democratic because the d in dprk means democratic

[Anonymous No.23276095]

>>23274647
>Nobody today wants those things, hence why Nietzsche might have the last laugh as Fukuyama concedes.
Nietzsche's goal is exactly liberalism : coping with the nihilism created by the atheists themselves, by creating more delusions and fighting for them like their life depends on it

[Anonymous No.23276196]

>>23275737
Yes?

[Anonymous No.23276200]

>>23268399
Any other wildly wrong shit you wanna spew?

[Anonymous No.23276202]

>>23268401
I've wrapped my dixx around my wrist and pretended it's a Rolex

[Anonymous No.23276205]

>>23268708
Perhaps our collective sense of progress and optimism is tied to something other than the varoibles typically used by the liberal order.

[Anonymous No.23276215]

>>23276205
Variables*

[Anonymous No.23276222]

>>23276095
Nietzsche will have the last laugh in his concept of the last men, not his actual philosophical system which is obsolete

[Anonymous No.23276229]

>hurr durr what about russia and china
even if these countries do manage to get more powerful, its likely they will become more liberal over time anyway. wouldnt surprise me if they became more accepting of LGBT and multiculti stuff over time. And thats the main point a lot of people miss, its not that "America will win forever" it is that liberalism will win out regardless of where the power is.

[Anonymous No.23276236]

>>23275572
China will either liberalize or balkanize from it's ethnic minorities with external intervention.

[Anonymous No.23276241]

>>23276229
Who said so? It's an Anglo paradigm. It might recede with their empires.

[Anonymous No.23276244]

>>23276241
Paradigms follow the ability to apply violence. No military on Earth can compete with the USA and the USA will preemptively strike against any competitors.
We're in the end stage of human history.

[Anonymous No.23276254]

>>23276244
>No military on Earth can compete with the USA
lmao

[Anonymous No.23276257]

>>23276244
also history doesnt have an end you stupid idiot >>23269285

[Anonymous No.23276260]

>>23276244
Oh, you're 12. Now I get it.

[Anonymous No.23276295]

>>23276254
They did with Soviet Union support. Said Soviet Union collapsed and left USA as the sole hyperpower. This is when Fukuyama wrote his thesis.
Look at how Iran's generals keep getting bombed yet they're unable to meaningfully retaliate.

[Anonymous No.23276324]

>>23275358
>China
Not successful
>UAE
>Saudi Arabia
>Qatar
>Kuwait
>Oman
Petrostrates, without oil and gas would be like Yemen
>Nazi Germany
Not successful
So, only 5 out of 17 examples I asked for?

[Anonymous No.23276339]

>>23276257
The USA is the last civilization. No more culture and civilization cycles after.

[Anonymous No.23276497]

>>23268708
The Greeks and Romans , and even the Babylonians improved and contributed a lot to the world and developed technology relevant to their times , and yet their civs declined and they were defeated by the barbarians. Modern civs nowadays are past their peak and barbarian Jews, Muslims , Asians, Africans and (south) Americans contribute to the decline of Western civ.

[Anonymous No.23276527]

>>23276295

[Anonymous No.23276530]

>>23276339
>Rome is the last civilization. No more culture and civilization cycles after.

[Anonymous No.23276534]

>>23268944
In western countries the proletariat turned into a worker’s aristocracy as Lenin puts it, the only hope for change would be from an external proletariat. Change can only come from poorer countries where the workers were not corrupted and encouraged to attain the same level of stupidity as the bourgeoisie. Although, I don’t believe a revolution or a change of system is necessary, but reformation of the current system is.

[Anonymous No.23276538]

>>23274350
>China is capitalist
LOL

[Anonymous No.23276681]

>>23276324
>>China
>Not successful
Cope of the day

[Anonymous No.23276682]

>>23276295
>Look at how Iran's generals keep getting bombed yet they're unable to meaningfully retaliate.
This post might not age well considering that the Iranians are gearing up to bomb Isreal.

[Anonymous No.23276747]

>>23276681
This.

>>23276324
You are either a child , or mentally retarded. Petroleum-producing Arab countries invest a lot of money in startups and initiatives all over the world, meaning they will still generate cashflow even after fossil fuel reserves are exhausted.

[Anonymous No.23276765]

>>23276229
>hasn't read neoleviathan
>doesn't know how bad things really are
>doesn't know civilization is on the precipice of total collapse

[Anonymous No.23276988]

>>23276681
China is literally on the brink of economic and demographic collapse, is this what is now called success?

[Anonymous No.23277004]

>>23276765
>hasn't read neoleviathan
What book is that?

[Anonymous No.23277063]

>>23276988
Stop getting your analysis from youtube

[Anonymous No.23277121]

>>23276988
>China is literally on the brink of economic and demographic collapse
Again?

[Anonymous No.23277230]

>>23276229
>its likely they will become more liberal over time anyway
I've always been convinced Fukuyamaites are going to just abstract the definition of liberalism out of existence in order to maintain their status of being correct

You will see such absurdities, such as calling the Taliban liberal, among other things

[Anonymous No.23277468]

>>23277230
The point is that liberalism will probably always follow money and influence. Liberalism wins out simply because liberal tolerance is better for business. Success and wealth thus requires becoming liberal, more or less, as a political necessity. You can argue about the definition of "liberal" all you want, but successful areas of the future will probably not look fascist or Islamic.

Liberalism out competes other forms because it makes more money, its really that simple.

[Anonymous No.23277513]

>>23277468
Exactly as I expected, liberalism will remain undefined, so when Afghanistan engages in any free market practices with vague eccuminicalism it will be declared as Liberal.
And what a pointless conversation this is with that being true, have fun calling all future government liberal in some way, I'm going to be interesting in what they are actually doing

[Anonymous No.23277514]

>>23277468
It’s seriously such a waste of time to argue about which system is the greatest based on ideological principles. Liberalism wins because it’s wedded to capitalism and capitalism wins. The values of a society are propagandized to keep the proles in support of their governments and lifestyles. The values themselves are salad dressing over the economy.

[Anonymous No.23277540]

>>23276530
USA is Rome

[Anonymous No.23277543]

>>23276324
Nazi Germany was very successful senpai

[Anonymous No.23278116]

Liberalism has been BTFO'd by houthis who are literal mud people that live in caves

[Anonymous No.23278163]

>>23268393
How many times are we going to have these threads

[Anonymous No.23278171]

>>23268393
https://youtu.be/xguam0TKMw8?si=L6ANzulwKNZUJJyE

Proven wrong by Ray Dalio

[Anonymous No.23278245]

>>23270259
>>23274647
Liberalism will only last as long as dollar is the world's reserve currency, once there is hyperinflation that will change.

Also people keep mentioning the issue of low birth rates, how will Liberalism sustain itself when the only people with high birth rates are anti-liberal?

[Anonymous No.23278273]

>>23278163
Until people actually have an idea for society that isn’t just a different variation of “we need more freedom”

[Anonymous No.23278289]

>>23278273
People don't actually want freedom, actual freedom requires responsibility.
They just want to do whatever they want as long as the state takes care of them.

[Anonymous No.23278302]

He was proven wrong by the mouse utopia experiment
If people get everything they want in society with no struggle the civilization will fall into degeneracy and destroy itself

We are in the 4th turning now

https://youtu.be/cTDTVbourzU?si=HoM42wS7lWqPML-W

[Anonymous No.23278311]

>>23268393
The American left pivot away from holding up Nordic social democracy as emulative ideal to justifying black intervenous drug use on the subway as "part of living in the big city" largely tells why Bernie and his basedlennials lost relevance.

[Anonymous No.23278332]

>>23278311
>American left pivot away from holding up Nordic social democracy
That was a very brief moment in American politics. Maybe from 2012 to 2016 at most. Before that it was mostly about supporting unions and the working class against the business class. It got warped into this weird gay thing from 2012 on.

[Anonymous No.23278359]

>>23278332
Ironically enough Fukuyama himself believes the Nordic model is the pinnacle of human civilization and doesn’t like the woke turn that the West took

[Anonymous No.23278365]

>>23278359
Damn Fukyama is a Nordicist? Based.

[Anonymous No.23278371]

>>23278359
Nordic Model only works in a smaller homogenous high-trust society

[Anonymous No.23278382]

>>23273386
>>23273470
It's because they believe toxic masculinity is the source of war and conflict so if all men become weak, unambitious and feminized there will be no more wars?

[Anonymous No.23278388]

>>23278332
I can't tell if you are too young to remember anything before 2012, or just gullible.

[Anonymous No.23278395]

>>23278388
Have sex incel

[Anonymous No.23278416]

>>23278359
>liberal man deplores the consequences of the causes he cherishes
More news at 11

[Anonymous No.23278668]

>>23278245
Certain parts of the world will be kept in a state of instability and poverty. This will create a constant supply of cheap labor and immigrants.
These loser states will also be used to remind us of the superiority of our system.

[Anonymous No.23278686]

>>23278371
With existing birth rates we will achieve this in due time.

[Anonymous No.23278692]

>>23278668
>cheap labor and immigrants
They are still a net negative and not as competent as white people

[Anonymous No.23278701]

>>23276988
two more weeks

[Anonymous No.23278710]

>>23278332
The mythology of idpol as a top-down judo throw to stop occupy is a myth. The reason this stuff spread after occupy was that occupy itself was an extended interaction between parts of the left that previously kept to themselves, similar to Tumblr later on. If anything, Clinton just kind of stifled it temporarily, and backlash to Bush made more normies willing to entertain a somewhat sanitized left. But even in Obama's first campaign there were "he's black so better" undertones.

Anyways, they dispersed ever since Bernie lost horribly, plus the second he accepted the mainstream democrat view on immigration and again when he let himself get upstaged by 2 black sheboons arguing about reparations or Black Lives Mattering or something. You don't come back from either of those things.

[Anonymous No.23278714]

>>23278710
No it won’t. This is true. Leftists used to love going "erm actually America isn't the greatest country on Earth, Sweden/Denmark/Finland outperforms us in...". At some point they realized the demographic implications of the argument they were making so now they just openly praise squalor.

[Anonymous No.23278725]

>>23268708
>how is it that society is objectively becoming more liberal and democratic yet simultaneously the power of liberalism is in clear decline?
It's not becoming more liberal and democratic. It's becoming selectively permissive with clamp downs on democratizing technologies (i.e. the illusion of democratic values is fading).

[Anonymous No.23278735]

>>23268708
>How is it that society is objectively becoming more dissolute yet simultaneously the power of dissolution is in clear decline?
Beats me. Maybe evil destroys itself

[Anonymous No.23278751]

>>23278686
Important vibe shift - utopian dreams of the contemporary left have to be adjudicated for how brown centred they are, which basically kills ambition.

If that means accepting street shitting as normal instead praising of 480 days of paternity leave for blue eyed babies, so be it.

[Anonymous No.23278775]

>>23278371
We already have a model, it’s called the third world model, something the Boomer brain worms can’t seem to accept - Dems gave blacks welfare, forced bussing, affirmative action, and most recently the Defund The Police movement. Patronage works and its retarded to think otherwise.

The Democrats have given blacks an incredible amount of concessions and social power, on the streets, in the schools and universities, and in the workplace. They are not going to vote for the "succeed on merit and follow the law" political philosophy.

[Anonymous No.23278791]

>>23272575
How heavy are those bags?

[Anonymous No.23278828]

>>23268708
How is the world becoming more liberal and democratic?
The elites are completely open about their plans to enslave humanity and they do not even pretend to give a fuck about the will of the people, they want to build a technocracy

[Anonymous No.23279264]

>>23278828
technological slavery literally is liberalism

[Anonymous No.23279420]

Cultures flourish in isolation. We are too hyper-connected to come up with anything truly original or different. We need to self-isolate our entire countries for a few hundred years before the next time we decide to share and explore each other's cultures. Only then can we truly feel excitement and discover new things. Globalist faggots act like the hyper-connected world is a pandora's box that has been opened and we can't go back, but it takes a few well placed nukes to do exactly that.

[Anonymous No.23279434]

>>23279264
How so?

[Anonymous No.23279490]

>>23279420
Ah, so that's why I, an isolated loner, have such an interesting personality

[Anonymous No.23279503]

>>23278289
>""Value" has no meaning other than in relationship to living beings. The value of a thing is always relative to a particular person, is completely personal and different in quantity for each living human — "market value" is a fiction, merely a rough guess at the average of personal values, all of which must be quantitatively different or trade would be impossible. … This very personal relationship, "value", has two factors for a human being: first, what he can do with a thing, its use to him… and second, what he must do to get it, its cost to him. There is an old song which asserts that "the best things in life are free". Not true! Utterly false! This was the tragic fallacy which brought on the decadence and collapse of the democracies of the twentieth century; those noble experiments failed because the people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted… and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears. … I fancy that the poet who wrote that song meant to imply that the best things in life must be purchased other than with money — which is true — just as the literal meaning of his words is false. The best things in life are beyond money; their price is agony and sweat and devotion . . . and the price demanded for the most precious of all things in life is life itself — ultimate cost for perfect value."
Lt. Col. Jean V. Dubois (Ret.), pp. 93-94
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers

[Anonymous No.23279505]

>>23278245
>Also people keep mentioning the issue of low birth rates,how will liberalism sustain itself when the only people with high birth rates are anti-liberal
I wonder what will happen to this in the next century,Conservatism or traditionalism?.

[Anonymous No.23279512]

>>23272274
Get its ass kicked by half of Yemen, become incapable of babysitting its master, and try to solve this problem by importing voters who hate liberal democracy?

[Anonymous No.23279519]

>>23273591
Just a random question, who gave him the right?

[Anonymous No.23279531]

>>23278395
NTA but fuck off tranny

[Anonymous No.23279564]

>>23278710
>The mythology of idpol as a top-down judo throw to stop occupy is a myth.
i hate that narrative so goddamned much
>The reason this stuff spread after occupy was that occupy itself was an extended interaction between parts of the left that previously kept to themselves, similar to Tumblr later on.
anti-white/black victimhood cultural marxist idpol ideology was already fomenting well before OWS was ever even imagined; consider picrel for example, & the fact that, prior to the cuckflix/streamslop revolution, major hollywood films were developed over the length of 4-5 years on average

[Anonymous No.23279596]

>>23278828
>>How is the world becoming more liberal and democratic?
people live more and more vicariously thru the commentaries of the entertainment merchants and of the bureaucrats. That's the heart of democracy, on the side of the plebs. The other heart is the banking industry and it's going pretty well here too.

[Anonymous No.23279601]

>>23278710
It was already a thing. Making it more of a thing would obviously help bankers and corporations keep useful idiots fixated on rainbow dildos instead of a rigged economy. So why would you think bankers and corporations made no effort to help it spread? Were they too moral?

[Anonymous No.23279627]

>>23279434
The entire point of liberalism is to produce a society of retarded cattle who sit at home all day on their phones and order stuff on amazon while the state becomes increasingly untouchable. It’s not even hyperbolic or vulgar to explain it like this, objectively this is the function of liberalism and why Fukuyama supports it

[Anonymous No.23279728]

>>23279627
Again you are changing definitions, that's the current bastardized version of liberalism used by the plutocrats, not the actual one

[Anonymous No.23279748]

>>23279490
If you're on the internet you're not isolated.

[Anonymous No.23279860]

>>23276254
You realize that US completely wiped out vietcong?

[Anonymous No.23279862]

>>23277543
Very successful states last longer than 12 years

[Anonymous No.23279941]

>>23279860
>over 20 fucking years
lmfao

[Anonymous No.23280086]

>>23277063
>Stop getting your analysis from youtube
I don't need to watch YouTube, I read Bloomberg, FT, WSJ, The Economist, and they all have evidence that proves the Chinese economy is in deep shit in the long run. It will never surpass the US economy without the radical neoliberal reforms, and China's demographic problems will never be fixed.

[Anonymous No.23280145]

>>23280086
>China's demographic problems will never be fixed.
At least they are not importing brown people to ruin them permanently

[Anonymous No.23280165]

>>23280145
>immigration is... LE BAD
Grow up and learn some economics, ffs

[Anonymous No.23280169]

>>23280165
>muh number must GO UP

[Anonymous No.23280313]

>>23280165
It is, mass immigration is an 'end of empire' phenomena throughout history.

[Anonymous No.23280340]

>>23280313
Germanic immigration kept the Roman Empire dominant for two more centuries.

[Anonymous No.23280409]

>>23268393
To Hegel, history was progress through opposition. Slavery was opposed by feudalism, feudalism by capitalism was opposed by communism (taking a Marxist i.e. Jewish Hegelian stance), communism was opposed by fascism, fascism by liberalism and stalinism which were at odds for a few decades.
Fukoshima stated that liberalism has won and that there is nothing left to oppose it now. He isnt saying that we are stuck in a judeo tranny child rape dystopia forever, he is saying that Hegel lost and two centuries of political philosophy came to an end.

[Anonymous No.23280442]

>>23268393
Amarican exceptionalism: the book
I miss the naive optimism of the 90s, we thought that after the defeat of the USSR we would enter a new age of peace, prosperity and progress and everything would keep getting better
And look where we are now.

[Anonymous No.23280446]

Some twitter accounts I follow have tweeted things very similar to some posts in this thread... they are lurking

[Anonymous No.23280462]

>>23280442
We thought we would have flying cars and instead we have tranny bathrooms

[Anonymous No.23280481]

>>23280409
This.
Liberal democracies are the final stage. We'll only experience better and better standards of living until utopia.

[Anonymous No.23280504]

>>23280481
Lol
Except we are getting dystopia instead and current system is neither democratic nor liberal
And mouse utopia experiment proves that utopia is unachievable

[Anonymous No.23280514]

>>23280504
see >>23280409
No dystopia. Only utopia, the triumph of analytical philosophy over continental philosophy.

[Anonymous No.23280538]

>>23279728
If only you knew the truth

[Anonymous No.23280551]

>>23280538
And the truth is?

[Anonymous No.23280571]

>>23279627
That's not liberalism that's Judaism

[Anonymous No.23280603]

>>23280313
>It is, mass immigration is an 'end of empire' phenomena throughout history.
It's a good thing there are hardly any empires left anymore, and the republics like the US prosper thanks to mass immigration.

[Anonymous No.23280619]

>>23268401
Bought a handheld retro console

[Anonymous No.23280651]

>>23280603
This. Why can't people accept the USA is the final form of humanity?

[Anonymous No.23280663]

>>23280603
>republics like the US prosper thanks to mass immigration
By keeping the wages low and housing unaffordable lol

[Anonymous No.23280746]

>>23273423
Yes, bigot.

[Anonymous No.23280760]

>>23280663
>wages low and housing unaffordable
Not true for me.

[Anonymous No.23280860]

>>23280760
Cool no one asked

[Anonymous No.23280877]

>>23280860
>needing validation from others to post
What slave mentality is this?

[Anonymous No.23281011]

>>23279862
Well if you actually read Fukuyama's book he said that in technologically developed countries only liberalism would be popular and inevitable. Nazi Germany contradicts this theory fukuyama acknowledges that in the book. Read a book before discussing it you dumb nigger

[Anonymous No.23281050]

>>23281011
Nazi Germany was not a successful technological state. It was reduced to rubble in a few years.

[Anonymous No.23281056]

>>23269048
Liberalism is moral syphilis, and I am stepping over it.

[Anonymous No.23281057]

>>23271989
lol

[Anonymous No.23281059]

>>23281011
lol yes very successful

[Anonymous No.23281071]

>>23281050
>>23281059
>needed an entirety of America and Soviet Union to defeat them
Lol what a fair fight

[Anonymous No.23281075]

>>23281071
They were attacking them because they were too successful :)

[Anonymous No.23281085]

>>23281075
>Soviet Union
>successful
They only relied on large numbers

[Anonymous No.23281103]

>>23281085
:)

[Anonymous No.23281154]

>>23281071
So? Fukuyama's thesis isn't about fairness. Liberalism is the supreme system at violence, technological mastery of violence and the ability to coordinate violence even with opposing ideologies.
There is no alternative or future beyond liberal democratic systems.

[Anonymous No.23281173]

>>23281154
Lol imagine being this short sighted
No one wants to join the US military anymore, who is gonna defend Israel and gay sex in middle east now?

[Anonymous No.23281192]

>>23281154
The west has had liberal democratic systems for barely 100 years and it's already falling apart economically and demographically, what makes you think it will last forever?

[Anonymous No.23281212]

>>23281050
>>23281059
>>>/twitter/

[Anonymous No.23281292]

>>23281173
>What is the draft? What is conscription?

[Anonymous No.23281294]

>>23281292
Yeah I'm sure that is gonna end up really well and people won't keep dodging
If they are really stupid enough to draft now they would cause another civil war

[Anonymous No.23281298]

>>23268393
Has Fukuyama written about Covid and how it made people lose faith in the system?
All pretense of liberty was thrown away and countries like Canada and Australia went full authoritarian

[Anonymous No.23281310]

>>23281298
he spends about 90% of his time consulting foreign governments and shilling for ukraine

[Anonymous No.23281315]

>>23281294
In the event of war with China or Russia you'd be surprised how many volunteers would swarm the recruiting booths.
People enjoy the freedoms and rights offered by liberalism and will die to defend it.

[Anonymous No.23281322]

>>23281315
>freedoms and rights offered by liberalism
Such as not being able to buy a house or start a family? The only people willing to die for ZOG are boomers

[Anonymous No.23281328]

>>23281315
Soldiers don't give a fuck about your ideology, they are mercenaries who will only fight if they get paid and America has no money

[Anonymous No.23281332]

>I love living in a liberal society where notions of free speech and tolerance are deeply held. As well as the tolerance for my freedom of thought about contentious issues I also love our democratic society for giving me real choice in voting for a wide range of viable candidates.

[Anonymous No.23281340]

>>23281315
No.

[Anonymous No.23281367]

>>23281332
Are you from 20 years ago?

[Anonymous No.23281369]

>>23281367
I think he's being sarcastic.

[Anonymous No.23281410]

>>23281332
This is unironically true.
Try living in glorious Shina and see how much better liberalism is.

[Anonymous No.23281427]

>>23281410
The western elites are completely open about turning the west into China with climate social credit system, no anonymity and hate speech laws

[Anonymous No.23281431]

>>23281427
Also don't forget the 2030 agenda

[Anonymous No.23281432]

>>23281410
What precisely do you imagine the difference to be?
Leftists fucked up the West just like the fucked up Russia and just like they fucked up China.

[Anonymous No.23281442]

Are lot of political back and forth but no one has refuted Fukuyama's thesis with direct quotes from the thesis itself.

[Anonymous No.23281447]

>>23281442
Moving the goal posts again

[Anonymous No.23281451]

>>23281442
Liberal democracy was comically easy to subvert, but the people who did the subversion are gay retards who are incapable of maintaining any of the institutions they subverted.
Now we have neither liberalism, nor democracy, and everything is falling apart in real time, which means it's not the end of history.

[Anonymous No.23281659]

>>23268393
He’s right keep coping, all your pathetic objections to liberalism will be addressed by liberalism

[Anonymous No.23281667]

>>23281659
>He’s right keep coping
He has been proven wrong multiple times ITT, how will liberalism address all of the issues mentioned?

[Anonymous No.23281671]

>>23281659
I refuse to believe there are unironic neolib shills on /lit/

[Anonymous No.23281683]

>>23268393
He is the political equivalent of economists who believe in MMT and that America can print endless money without consequence because reasons

[Anonymous No.23281690]

>>23281671
Start believing chud, history is over

[Anonymous No.23281695]

>>23281690
>history is over because it just is OK?

[Anonymous No.23281698]

>>23281683
>America can print endless money without consequence because reasons
They don't believe that and clearly state so.
What they mean is that America can print endless money without significant consequences in their lifetime. And their lifetime is what's important.

[Anonymous No.23281768]

>>23281683
Baby brained understanding of mmt, you are economically illiterate

[Anonymous No.23281815]

>>23281768
>you are economically illiterate
Lol modern kaynesian economics is bullshit
The government just manipulates everything

[Anonymous No.23281820]

>>23281815
>The government just manipulates everything
Was there ever a time they didn't?

[Anonymous No.23282329]

From what I gather about these threads and people who talk about the general topic of liberal capitalism's dominance, everyone always talks in terms of power and history but no one addresses the average person. No one addresses why people embrace liberalism to begin with -- why most people would rather do nothing at all than take action for anything in life. For me what is interesting about this topic is the morality and philosophy behind it, why these values became so triumphant. Just saying over and over "2 more weeks and the West collapses" or "America is still the best" is boring. It's really boring.

[Anonymous No.23282331]

>>23273470
>>23273386
>>23273357

[Anonymous No.23282350]

USA DID NOTHING WRONG

[Anonymous No.23282358]

>>23280086
I don't need to watch YouTube, I read boomer propaganda pieces
kek keep coping

[Anonymous No.23282363]

>>23282329
This is the reason really.
>Hanlon's razor is an adage or rule of thumb that states:[1]

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
It is a philosophical razor that suggests a way of eliminating unlikely explanations for human behavior. It is probably named after Robert J. Hanlon, who submitted the statement to Murphy's Law Book Two (1980).[1] Similar statements have been recorded since at least the 18th century.
>Some of the oldest attributions of the idea date to the 18th century.[12] Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote in the first entry of his influential epistolary novel The Sorrows of Young Werther (1774, first English translation 1779): "[...] Mißverständnisse und Trägheit machen vielleicht mehr Irrungen in der Welt als List und Bosheit. Wenigstens sind die beiden letzteren gewiß seltener." ("misunderstandings and lethargy perhaps produce more wrong in the world than deceit and malice do. At any rate, the latter two are certainly rarer.") [13] Another variation appears in The Wheels of Chance (1896) by H.G. Wells:

There is very little deliberate wickedness in the world. The stupidity of our selfishness gives much the same results indeed, but in the ethical laboratory it shows a different nature.[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

[Anonymous No.23282365]

>>23281768
>leave it to a femoid economist to contrive of a juju based theory of free munny
nobody takes you seriously

[Anonymous No.23282476]

>>23276095
This is one of the dumbest non-readings of Nietzsche I've ever read on this hellsite.

[Anonymous No.23282604]

>>23282329
>No one addresses why people embrace liberalism to begin with -- why most people would rather do nothing at all than take action for anything in life.
People are hedonistic and the atheist enlightenment is the best at providing material means to be an hedonist. And with the freedom of speech by the atheists, hedonists can babble all day about anything and think they are free thinkers trying to realize their savior complex.

[Anonymous No.23282609]

>>23282476
I love how Nietzschean drones can't handle the truth about their shitty guru.

[Anonymous No.23282810]

>>23282363
If you think that the governments do not despise their own people and are just merely incompetent after everything that has happened in the last 4 years then I don't know what to tell you

[Anonymous No.23282815]

>>23282329
People will not do anything as long as they have their bread and circuses, normies seek path of least resistance