/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23223477]

I got a gig teaching Latin at a high ranked university and in the first class I was trying to explain the cases and said nominative signifies the subject and accusative the object. 90% of the class hit me with a fluoride stare and someone asked what those mean. Shit like this has just continued. I said for instance "Caesar wrote DBG" and they asked who Caesar was. Made a reference to Alexander and they had no clue who he was.
It's completely over, zoomers are fucked. These are the smartest zoomers too, it's not some shitty community college. School and parents have completely failed them.

[Anonymous No.23223480]

that didn't happen. you don't even have a job.

[Anonymous No.23223481]

You didn't do the usual
He hit me
Him hit I
Thing?

[Anonymous No.23223505]

>>23223477
I didn’t learn nominative, accusative, genitive, etc until my junior year of college when I was studying Old English. They just don’t teach it anymore because it’s not “necessary” for the retarded kids to know it.
The result of that is that when the smart kids finally move on to stuff like learning linguistics or different languages, their professors have to waste time teaching them shit they should’ve learned in middle school.
Godspeed anon. You can reech deez keedz

[Anonymous No.23223511]

>>23223477
Why are zoomers so retarded?

[Anonymous No.23223544]

>zoomers are... LE STUPID!

[Anonymous No.23223553]

>>23223511
Broooo his hair looks so cool

[Anonymous No.23223557]

>>23223553
fr fr no cap

[Anonymous No.23223560]

>>23223544
Yes

[Anonymous No.23223562]

>>23223477
When did they stop teaching syntax in the USA?
In my country they have been trying to phase it out, but it's thankfully seeing some opposition to it by teacher.
But then the problem becomes that newer teachers also don't know syntax.

That's a tough part of teaching Latin, or Greek or any language with grammatical cases really, when the students have no idea of syntax and sentence structure.

[Anonymous No.23223564]

I don't know what nominative or accusative are either thoughbeit

[Anonymous No.23223565]

sheeeeesh OP is on god cheugy af fr

[Anonymous No.23223591]

it's easier if you are ESL desu

[Anonymous No.23223597]

>>23223505
>>23223564
They didn't even know what subject/object meant

[Anonymous No.23223606]

>>23223562
32 years old here and I never learned it in school. Not in any of my English classes nor in the two years of Spanish I took in high school. Didn't learn about accusative/genitive/etc until I learned German on my own reading textbooks. So, it could make some sense for the students not knowing that since they're a decade younger than I am. Them not knowing Caesar and Alexander is bizarre though.

>>23223597
What the fuck? I didn't get the syntax terminology in school, but this is just basic ass grammar they should've learned in 5th grade.

[Anonymous No.23223616]

I ask questions like this too, I know the answers already but I like to have a round understanding of things

[Anonymous No.23223621]

>>23223597
Then teach them nigga. Blud can't believe he has to do his job lmao.

[Anonymous No.23223628]

>>23223621
Shut up, Jamal.

[Anonymous No.23223633]

>>23223477
Give them an example
Maybe the understand but just aren't familiar with the terminology

[Anonymous No.23223635]

I am "learning" German, which really so far has just been trying my damnedest to memorise the case endings and use them in fluid speech without stopping to go through a mental chart for 20 seconds. If you speak english you don't need cases so none of them should be expected to. If you are teaching cases, you must teach how english works first.

Stop being an elitest who has forgotten the beginner mind.

[Anonymous No.23223651]

>>23223633
>>23223621
>>23223606
When during the pandemic I was bored and decided to teach my little cousins some Latin I made exercises (in Spanish) for them to recognize syntax and the function of words in a sentence.
They'd be stuff like:

The farmer grows corn.
And they'd have to underline the subject, verb and object, pretty simple. I would then add in more complex sentences with more parts.

[Anonymous No.23223805]

>>23223477
Bro is teaching Latin 101 and he's expecting the students to be expert Latin scholars and expert Grammarians. You're the retard here.

[Anonymous No.23223816]

>>23223805
subject/object is taught in like 2nd grade lol

[Anonymous No.23223823]

>>23223805
>expert Grammarians
If a university student can't tell you what the subject and object of a sentence are they really shouldn't be there.
It's the most basics of basics.

[Anonymous No.23223845]

>Ayo teach!
>Who be dis seizure nigga?
>Dat da pizza man?
>I's sure do loves me some crazy bread

[Anonymous No.23223882]

>>23223480
You didn't even post this. You're not here. You never were.

[Anonymous No.23223887]

>>23223477
Sorry you're going through this, anon, but I can't help but feel a little vindicated. I almost transferred to Dartmouth but instead ended up at a small liberal arts college. I'm taking intro Latin this year using Wheelock's and though we're not completely through it yet we're already starting to translate Cicero, Tacitus and the Vulgate. All the cases, conjugations, declensions, etc were all last semester - we're at this point just combing through Gildersleeve's and pulling out all the grammar. I'm not saying this to brag or anything, but rest assured that some of the kids are alright, and that Latin scholarship does have a future. What textbook(s) are you using? Any more horror stories?

[Anonymous No.23224149]

>>23223606
Liar or you forgot you learned it in elementary. Syntax was taught in 3rd/4th grade curriculum, along with context clues and basic literary analysis
>t. younger than you

[Anonymous No.23224159]

>>23223887
That's fucking awesome
Do you want to work as a Latin translator?

[Anonymous No.23224176]

I had to take four years of Latin in high school, I got placed into one Latin course I had to take in uni to fulfill the language requirement.

The uni course was the only time I ever got an A in a Latin class, ever.

[Anonymous No.23224188]

>>23223606
>not knowing Caesar and Alexander is bizarre though.

Not if you pronouce it Kai-czar and Alay-shandre the way OP does.

[Anonymous No.23224337]

>>23224159
It's definitely something I'd consider, and I think there's still a market for it. IIRC a lot of St. Albert the Great's works remain translated, incompletely translated or haven't had fresh translations in centuries, and that's just one guy. I'd love to translate something like the Periphyseon though. All of this, however, is if I get good enough. Law's the failsafe.

[Anonymous No.23224487]

>>23223477
>>23224159

This anon >>23223887 again. I was curious - the biggest problem I have with Latin is simply remembering all of the morphology. It just feels like too much to keep up with. Are there any good methods of learning it/sources to use? Vocabulary is also difficult, but I think that's a little more self-explanatory to learn.

[Anonymous No.23224526]

>>23224487
Latin accidence is not complicated.
5 declensions
4 conjugations
Simple as

[Anonymous No.23225215]

>>23223887
Good to hear anon. I learned with a mix of Wheelock's and LLPSI and I'm using the same to teach.
Not too many horror stories, they're not bad kids it's just they were failed by public school. Generally any time I made a reference to English grammar they had no clue what I was talking about so I had to teach both English grammar and Latin.
>>23224487
Just write the declensions down a billion times and repeat them in your head. Then read tons of easy literature, like the Vulgate. Eventually they'll just become second nature. Even the weird ones that are rarely ever used like 3rd person plural imperative will come. Also try writing stuff in Latin, since it will force you to find the right declension.
As for vocab, I struggled with it too. I hate using Anki which is probably the most effective method, but if you don't mind Anki I'd recommend it. I'd also say listen to as much Latin as possible since we tend to remember words we've heard more easily. Keep a sheet with common vocab you just can't remember and review every day. Read tons and tons of Latin.

[Anonymous No.23225230]

>>23223477
Lmao nice fanfic. Zoomers are by far the most literate generation we've had since the Lost Generation. Half of zoomers are reading obscure theologico-alchemical treatises in their spare time, the other half reads British political economy to falicitate a better understanding of Marx. Millenials were the trough on the literacy curve, zoomers are ascending and will deliver us from the dark ages

[Anonymous No.23225240]

>>23223511
Their whole world is just their phone and their gaming station, usually a PC. Everything they know, think, do is informed by that experience as an animal of Discord, TikTok, Red Dead Redemption 2, etc.

[Anonymous No.23225246]

>>23223805
It is catastrophically bad for even first year students not in a Classics major to have no idea what these are. How could you not know who Julius Caesar was? To say that you’d be uneducated would be an understatement.

[Anonymous No.23225251]

>>23223564
Go back to sharty

[Anonymous No.23225255]

>>23225230
Insane zoomer cope. Most people above 30 think zoomers are functionally retarded, and they’re right. You are not highly literate, and you are certainly not well-read, just because you can just barely parse Discord chats. Simply being able to read and comprehend basic English has always been the absolute bare minimum, and that’s where zoomers are. You only think they’re most literate because you think being literate means more people can read very simple English.

[Anonymous No.23225257]

>>23225230
Lmao nice fanfic.

[Anonymous No.23225282]

>>23223477
this only happens in the us

[Anonymous No.23225323]

I remember watching somewhat recently an old comedy show. The comedian mentioned Clovis, King of the Franks.

And we are not France. Nowadays, I wonder how that would go.

[Anonymous No.23225348]

You have to do diagrams for everything. All zoomers are visual learners. They will also recognize CAESAR if you play a scene from one of his movies. If they try to recall CAESAR on their own without a visual cue they will come up with random gabba shit like "Mr. Cakes" or "Dog Man Kevin," but when they have the face and dress in front of them the recognition is 100

[Anonymous No.23225351]

>>23223477
That is just sad, while I am only 19, I have had 4 years of instruction for Latin.

We were taught as follows:
Nominative - Subject
Genitive - Possessive
Dative - Indirect Object (a.k.a the object not directly being acted upon)
Accusative - Direct Object (a/k/a the object being directly acted upon)
Ablative - Catch all, usually from, with, in, on, or by something.
Vocative - Direct Address
Locative - In the place of something.

Almost all first declension nouns are feminine except for PAIN occupation nouns (Poeta, Pirata, et al.).
Second declension masculine can also be feminine, but only for types of trees.
Third has the I-Stem subset
Fourth declension needs context for conjugation.
Neuter is neuter always, no exceptions.

That was the second chapter we did, the first was on verbs. Did they struggle with verbs, anon?

P.S: May God bear mercy onto these students' souls. (I-Stems, special case datives, accusatives and ablatives, UNUS NAUTA adjectives, irregular comparatives and superlatives, let alone subjects and passives [especially periphrastic usages]).

[Anonymous No.23225355]

>>23225348
So you're saying zoomers are subhuman?

[Anonymous No.23225375]

>>23225230
They’re just playing Fortnite and watching TikToks while taking hormones lol

[Anonymous No.23226178]

>>23225230
skimming derrida while you dilate is not being well read

[Anonymous No.23226281]

>>23223477
Comprehensible input is the most important thing. Explicit understanding of grammar can serve as an aid to it, but it's not the ultimate objective, only a means.

[Anonymous No.23226293]

I wish I could have gone to a Latin school and focus on learning and reading Latin fluently
But now I'm too old in my late 20s. Late 20s can you believe that? My life is over. I'm already dead.

[Anonymous No.23226297]

>>23223544
yeah, zoomers get hamfisted gay nigger propaganda in school and that's it

[Anonymous No.23226307]

>>23223544
they are though

[Anonymous No.23226316]

>>23226293
Whiny bitch.

[Anonymous No.23226341]

>>23226316
Call more people whiners and shame self pity and comiseration im sure it goes well
>looks at your suicide rate compared to countries without this broken machismo bullshit
Oh....oh no....

[Anonymous No.23226583]

>>23226281
This is a cope. OP was not trying to teach them esoteric aspects of Latin grammar, just the bare basics. I agree with CI but you can't teach unmotivated retards Latin no matter how much Roma in Italia est they read.

[Anonymous No.23226630]

>>23226293
niger I started self learning Latin at around 26, Greek at around 29, and I can now enjoy both, you just need a healthy dose of autism/consistency over few years, go for it

[Anonymous No.23226633]

>>23223480
I am in college at high ranked university at it seems possible.

[Anonymous No.23226636]

>>23226583
It's not like there weren't native speakers in the Roman Empire who didn't know anything about grammar. I think it's possible in principle, just not advisable.

[Anonymous No.23226679]

>>23223511
>why does every generation think subsequent generations are retarded

[Anonymous No.23226680]

>>23223511

They are not biologically dumber than millennials it’s just a combination of being born in a retarded time and nihilism. Zoomers were born in a completely cynical time period where the majority of the elite see the humanities as pointless. Previously people had some vague sense that higher order culture like Vergil or Dante was important even if they never read them. People had some general built in historical context to their lives as being descended from a great tradition. Zoomers live in a contextless culture desert of the eternal present. They don’t care about the classics because they are disconnected from any common tradition or heritage. Every zoomer who speaks English grew up online with the same subcultures and media. Millennials are basically the same just a little less extreme version.

[Anonymous No.23226682]

>>23223564
How?

[Anonymous No.23226755]

>>23226630
But thats not what I want.

[Anonymous No.23226767]

>>23223477
I am of zoomer age and Caesar and Alexander were taught even in our lackluster, holocaust-centered history classes. I doubt you, OP.

[Anonymous No.23226782]

>>23226680
I've never understood the obsession with classics. I find this all tedious. Nobody has been able to sufficiently explain why reading is somehow better than anything else you can do. I don't understand this blind spot. Consuming media is always on the bottom of what you can do with your time for me reg a release if its a video game or a book. I think the zoomer way of thinking in that regard is better.
Its better than people reading books thinking they'll be smarter for it or somehow fundamentally improve their core person. I've had enough of that thought.

[Anonymous No.23226801]

>>23226636
Well there were yeah but it's basically impossible to get the amount of input required for that. Teaching grammar is a very useful tool.

[Anonymous No.23226820]

what kind of fluency do you need to be able to teach at least to high school grade kids? I have no formal qualification but I've spent the last few years learning and reading Latin, I was thinking to earn maybe some extra few bucks helping high school kids who maybe need an extra hand

[Anonymous No.23226832]

>>23226820
If you can comfortably read Caesar and Virgil, you should be fine. You'll probably need a classics degree to get an actual job unless you know somebody thoughbeit, but tutoring would be a good way to get those connections. I would say go for it. GL anon.

[Anonymous No.23226886]

>>23223477
it's true that kids aren't taught nominative, accusative, etc. but they definitely are taught subject vs object, the problem is that without a second language it's an unnecessary way to view text. Their familiarity with English and the philosophy of "just read around it for context" renders that level of observation unnecessary sadly.

also I've had kids butch at me for using "confusing words" during the second semester of a Latin course, the kids are very very dumb.

>>23226820
a lot of private schools are very relaxed regarding qualifications, my only warning would be that Latin students aren't super common so a tutoring company or any other organization might be hesitant to sign you on if that's all you can teach. I only got a few each semester and that's mostly because I was the better alternative as a teacher. Looking specifically at a Catholic school may help, not sure, but beware their ecclesiastical pronunciation....

[Anonymous No.23227040]

>>23223477
If that's true, that's pretty scary. I'm an American who took Latin at 15 and none of that happened in our classroom, but we're millennials.

[Anonymous No.23227049]

>>23226680
>millennials are basically the same as z**mers
I do say, I take umbrage at thy assertion!

[Anonymous No.23227092]

>>23223481
Somehow landed a professorship without remembering the most basic pedagogy.

[Anonymous No.23227347]

I'm a professor at an Ivy League... these are some of the finest, most competitive kids in the nation, but the majority of my students have no idea what nominative, accusative, genitive, ablative, etc. are - they also don't know what relative clauses are, nor what a complementizer, nor a false friend, etc. UNLESS they personally have an interest in linguistics or are language nerds and have assimilated this terminology themselves before going to university.

[Anonymous No.23227502]

>>23227347
Brown is not an ivy league university lmao

[Anonymous No.23227523]

Probably more intuitive to teach what prepositions go with each case, that’s how I learned (eg by/with/from for ablative etc)

[Anonymous No.23227526]

>>23227502
It is. Why wouldn’t it be?

[Anonymous No.23227546]

>>23227526
come on now

[Anonymous No.23227757]

>>23223477
meanwhile in Evropa: learn Greek, Latin, German, French, English day 1 of high school, and for 6 years.

[Anonymous No.23228218]

>>23224188
Lmao. That conception of OP didn't come to my mind, but it's perfect.

[Anonymous No.23228422]

>>23226680
Anglo-Zoomers are like the telepathic generation from Childhood's End and the internet is the Devil

[Anonymous No.23228430]

>>23227347
We failed our successor generations. This will come back to bite us in a decade

[Anonymous No.23228750]

>>23223477
>School and parents have completely failed them
Schools are working as intended.

[Anonymous No.23229119]

>>23223845
Made me kek