/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23209696]

The only Dune novel that could be classified as /lit/

[Anonymous No.23209699]

he's so immense...

[Anonymous No.23209703]

>>23209696
That’s not Messiah

[Anonymous No.23209737]

>>23209703
that's the second pick but god emperor is legitimately a modern masterpiece

[Anonymous No.23209763]

Orig dune was the best. All else is contrarianism by wikifags and OP doesn't read

[Anonymous No.23210004]

>>23209763
I've read more books than you faggot, better ones too

[Anonymous No.23210028]

>>23210004
i bet you havent even read the very hungry caterpillar, poser

[Anonymous No.23210033]

>>23209696
No way. That would be Messiah.
>>23209703
Based.

[Anonymous No.23210054]

>>23209696
I read through Messiah. I have the next two books in the series. Not sure if I want to return to Arrakis. Messiah was a lot easier to read for me than the first book.

[Anonymous No.23210060]

>>23209703
>>23210033
>>23210054
Messiah is GOATed but only contains a glimpse of the golden path, God-Emperor is pure enlightenment

[Anonymous No.23210070]

>>23210060
The stoneburner sequence is better than anything in God Emperor, though God Emperor is easily my second favorite.

[Anonymous No.23210085]

>>23210070
Really? Damn god emperor must be boring.

[Anonymous No.23210097]

>>23210070
Your mom is a stoneburner.

[Anonymous No.23210100]

>>23210070
Nah but that's a great sequence
>>23210085
You just have bad taste

[Anonymous No.23210107]

>>23210100
idgi, what makes it great? it's just a pillar of light that burns their eyes out

[Anonymous No.23210137]

>>23210107
I'm not the bloke who thinks it's better than God-Emperor, but the whole sequence from the stoneburner itself to blind Paul is pure gigakino

[Anonymous No.23210138]

>>23210137
how tho
it just happens, then he ducks, then he gets up and commands people using his oracular vision

[Anonymous No.23210146]

>>23210138
Idk how to explain it to you bro, for me it's just the penultimate moment of Paul's character and the way it's been built up throughout the novel is just kino. I'd be more specific but it's been years since I read it, I'm well overdue for a reread

[Anonymous No.23210160]

>>23210146
there was buildup to it? i just remember the stone burner being mentioned in an earlier chapter because a kid scytale kills was blinded by one. Then it comes up again when Paul is blinded by it.

Also, messiah is just brooding the whole book until the very end. And it's really annoying brooding too because it's just Paul whining about some future that he for some reason can't explain and the oracle is described so messily. You're just lost the whole way through over every little detail until the very end. Really frustrating read.

[Anonymous No.23210168]

So are we all in agreement that any of the books after god emperor were shit?

[Anonymous No.23210170]

>>23210160
>there was buildup to it?
Been a while since I read it like I said, but doesn't Paul spend the entire book worrying because his foresight stops at a certain point? Specifically where we goes blind so he spends the entire book thinking he's going to lose his powers and/or die, but instead gains pure prescience.
>Also, messiah is just brooding the whole book until the very end
Pure "literally me" kino, you got filtered
>You're just lost the whole way through over every little detail until the very end. Really frustrating read.
Never felt this way reading Messiah, if anything Messiah is the easiest read because it's the one with the least amount of world-building, the majority of it was done in Dune and it doesn't add wild new ideas like Children and God-Emperor do, so I don't understand how one can be confused? All of it is set up in Dune

[Anonymous No.23210175]

>>23210170
>but doesn't Paul spend the entire book worrying because his foresight stops at a certain point? Specifically where we goes blind so he spends the entire book thinking he's going to lose his powers and/or die, but instead gains pure prescience.
no, he's worrying throughout the book because of the "horrifying future" that's coming, and the book describes time like an ocean with events being different waves crashing against him or some shit

[Anonymous No.23210179]

>>23210175
Yeah I can't remember that well I'll give it a reread once I've finished the first but my memory is that part of the reason he's worrying is he loses foresight at one point, or sees a point in the future where he can not see any further, making him worry. Either way it's pure kino

[Anonymous No.23210262]

>>23210168
Like 2/3rds through Heretics. It's still good but definitely lacks that epic Duney feel.

[Anonymous No.23210295]

>>23210146
It's so good. Paul going full picrel is his peak.

[Anonymous No.23210419]

>>23210262
Is Chapterhouse meant to be any good?

[Anonymous No.23210425]

>>23210419
Meant to be? It certainly doesn't seem like it.

[Anonymous No.23210470]

>>23210425
Doesn't it end on a cliffhanger? Don't exactly wanna read it knowing it never ends

[Anonymous No.23210545]

Messiah is personally my favorite

God-Emperor was good but very cryptic at times I did think that a lot of Herberts cryptic prose really works spledidly with the type of character Leto II is

Weird Sandworm Guy That is all of Humanity and is simultaneously inhuman

[Anonymous No.23210565]

I've only read up to Messiah but i don't understand why everyone says it's so horny? He doesn't even fuck his sister?

[Anonymous No.23210587]

>>23210565
People say Messiah is horny? It gets so much hornier.

[Anonymous No.23210590]

What are some books similar to the Dune series? I've already read Book of The New Sun (awesome) and The Darkness That Comes Before (hated it), re-reading Zelazny's Lord Of Light (one of my favorites) pretty soon. Is there anything written in the last 30 years that even comes close to Frank's first 6 Dune books?

[Anonymous No.23210639]

>>23210590
Lawrence of Arabia: The Authorised Biography of T. E. Lawrence

[Anonymous No.23210661]

>>23210639
Lol yeah fair, I have already read that though.

[Anonymous No.23210665]

>>23210590
Maybe try The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, a significant amount of the plot takes place on a habitable yet desolate Mars.

[Anonymous No.23210669]

I liked Messiah more than Dune but am not looking forward to Children because I'm told it's a slog

I will do it so I can read God Emperor though

[Anonymous No.23210676]

>>23210669
Children is the sloggiest but all of the first 4 are good. I wouldn't change Children. The stuff with Alia is excellent.

[Anonymous No.23210914]

>>23210669
I'm the same, Messiah is leagues above the first IMO (not a knock on Dune it's still probably the best sci-fi adventure novel ever written) but yeah number three is a slog especially after the dizzying heights of Messiah. Just push through it knowing that you'll reach those same heights with
God-Emperor and like >>23210676 said the stuff with Aliah is really good. Its necessary reading to get to God-Emperor which is gigakino

[Anonymous No.23210931]

>>23210060
what i didnt like about Messiah and really original dune is the pacing at the end, like the villians are just quickly and swiftly dealt with, losing some of their intimidation quality on second reads. i havent read Emperor, but does it have a similar swift ending like the previous books?

[Anonymous No.23210942]

>>23209703
>>23210033
Messiah bros, where we at?
Also, FUCK the Golden Path, Paul was right to try to find an alternative.

[Anonymous No.23210945]

>>23210168
Even the first is quite mid.

[Anonymous No.23210955]

>>23210676
Honestly, you don't need to read Children to understand God Emperor. It's set 3000 years in the future, and it honestly would probably have worked as a stand alone book like the original, even with it's references to Paul, Duncan and Stilgar. Sure it might be a little confusing, but the first book is immediately word salad and expects you to catch up as well.
Not saying you should skip Children, just think it's interesting how God Emperor is somewhat isolated from the others.

[Anonymous No.23210957]

>>23210945
>mid

[Anonymous No.23211025]

>>23210957
It’s about as good as Harry Potter if we’re being honest. Frank isn’t a particularly good writer. It reads like an anime.

[Anonymous No.23211036]

>>23211025

I bet most people who saw the movies and didn't read the books would be surprised by how goofy a lot of it is, especially the Harkonnens

The new movies definitely give the impression it's a lot closer to Game of Thrones than it really is

[Anonymous No.23211071]

>>23211036
I think Danny mixed up Harkonnens and the filthy Tleilaxu.

[Anonymous No.23212011]

>>23210955
I guess you could but I'm not really sure why you would, the whole book is a protracted exploration of Leto's character and the Golden Path. All the setup is in Children. God Emperor would have no weight without Children because you would never have known Leto pre-worm.

[Anonymous No.23212108]

>>23210942
Preach. The Golden Path is retarded and has no real world application, despite Leto II's manifesto.

[Anonymous No.23212582]

ITT: People who haven't actulaly read God Emperor

>>23210070
Only based comment here, first half of messiah is boring af, but during Stoneburner and post, is /lit/ af.

[Anonymous No.23212774]

>>23211036
The Harkonnen scenes in the book are actually cool as hell and have a lot of soul and the Baron reads like an interesting villain. I cannot tell you how annoying it is to read another line explaining Jessica's head musings though.

[Anonymous No.23212789]

>>23212774
This. Honestly if you split the difference between Lynch and Villeneuve you get something remarkably close to the actual tone of the books.

[Anonymous No.23212792]

>>23212789
meant to reply to>>23211036

[Anonymous No.23214287]

>>23212789
this guy actually reads

[Anonymous No.23214423]

>>23209696
>3500 years in the future, nobody has invented anything new except the no chamber and navigation computer which ix made like yesterday
>Leto needs to conquer humanity and be a tyrant for thousands of years because he just does ok
>well um actually it’s to teach humans a lesson and give them the no gene as part of the golden path. No there’s no other way to save humanity because… there just isn’t ok
>It took Leto 3500 years to breed someone with the no-gene just in time for him to fall in love and die
>Leto falls in love with hwi like 5 minutes after meeting her
It’s just a shitty I Claudius ripoff. There are so many plot contrivances I don’t understand how you take it seriously. Only good parts were the first few chapters and the ending.

[Anonymous No.23214430]

>>23214423
Stfu speedreader

[Anonymous No.23214544]

If I watched the first Dunc movie and hated it is there any chance I would enjoy the books?

[Anonymous No.23214548]

>>23209699
beyond chonk

[Anonymous No.23214569]

I'm 35% of the way through Dune Messiah and it's already better than the first book.

[Anonymous No.23214619]

>>23214569
You're in for pure Dune kino if you're loving it, if you enjoy it definitely read into God-Emperor knowing that Children is a little bit of a slog but necessary set up for the true Dune kino

[Anonymous No.23214888]

>>23210590
I'm reading VALIS by PKD right now and I can definitely draw parallels between it and GEoD.

[Anonymous No.23215065]

>>23214430
Not an argument

[Anonymous No.23215103]

>>23214619
What makes God Emp kino? Im 200 pages in, and it's just a worm rambling to random characters you don't care about?

I know the rambling has SOME value- on a meta level. But it's still just useless -plot- rambling.

And what is the plot of the book? Big bad worm with his Golden Path has to be overthrown, but the worm's plan was -good- all along?

Ok?

[Anonymous No.23215212]

>>23215103
youtubers shilled it to me, therefore it's the greatest thing ever.

[Anonymous No.23215288]

>>23215103
>And what is the plot of the book? Big bad worm with his Golden Path has to be overthrown, but the worm's plan was -good- all along?
Apparently, the visions revealed to him that if the entire human civilization remained under a single ruler, it would stagnate and eventually self-destruct. His solution is to force the humanity to splinter into multiple polities AND teach it a lesson to never trust just one ruler ever again.

[Anonymous No.23215366]

>>23215065
Why would I argue with someone who only skimmed the book?

[Anonymous No.23215402]

>>23214423
>>Leto falls in love with hwi like 5 minutes after meeting her

My favourite part is that you meet Hwi for 1 page, and the next 50 pages is Leto and Idaho circlejerking about how amazing she is.

[Anonymous No.23215837]

>>23214544
Depends on why you hated it. If you hated how slow it was you'll hate the book.

[Anonymous No.23215857]

>>23215366
I haven't. In fact it seems more likely that you're the one skimming these books or reading the wiki summary considering my post brought up several key plot points from the book and your posts are just baselessly accusing people of le speed reading without any constructive criticism.

[Anonymous No.23215872]

>>23215857
All of the "contrivances" you mentioned are explained in the book you claim to have read. Some even have dialogue explicitly describing why they happened that way. You fucking speedreader.

[Anonymous No.23215886]

>>23215872
Is that why you haven't cited or quoted a single sentence from the book that explains any of them? lol fuck off. The most you can say is that hwi was trained to seduce leto but that still doesn't make him falling in love with her any less contrived.

[Anonymous No.23215919]

>>23215886
Why would I do that? I don't care if you understood the book or not, I just want you to stop posting your illiterate opinions.

[Anonymous No.23215950]

>>23215919
>Why would I do that?
Because this is the board for discussing literature
>I don't care if you understood the book or not
Then go back to the dunecord if you're not interested in actually discussing the book and just want a safe little circlejerk where everyone agrees with you.
>I just want you to stop posting your illiterate opinions.
You're certainly not going to change anyone's opinion by randomly accusing them of being illiterate, speedreading, et cetera so you failed.

[Anonymous No.23215964]

>>23215950
Except the things you're complaining about are addressed very clearly in the book. If you were bringing up something more nuanced there would be something to discuss, but as it stands you clearly just didn't pay much attention if your complaints are at the level of "it's too convenient that Leto falls in love with Hwi so quickly." That is a central plot point and the reasons for it are made extremely clear.

[Anonymous No.23215992]

REMEMBER THE TOOTH...
THE TOOTH...

[Anonymous No.23216034]

>>23215964
>Except the things you're complaining about are addressed very clearly in the book.
Right then it should be trivial to bring up a quote where they are addressed, but you haven't. Because they aren't properly addressed and you aren't interested in having a discussion or furthering peoples understanding of the book.
>If you were bringing up something more nuanced there would be something to discuss
Sorry, but a math professor doesn't only help his students with the hardest and most complicated questions. Your whole "I'm right, you're wrong, and I don't have to explain why!" attitude is retarded.

[Anonymous No.23216095]

>galactic empire
>each great house has one planet
I read dunc and messiah but I don't remember how he justifies why they have such small territories and families.
With a galactic sized empire, families should have thousands of royal family members and millions of soldiers, how is it possible that the Atreides get completely annihilated on Arrakis in a small ass city?

[Anonymous No.23216106]

>>23216034
Fine, here's a passage partially explaining his attraction to Hwi. She is not only raised to seduce him, she has been bred specifically to appeal to his tastes and presented to him at precisely the moment when he is beginning to falter along the Golden Path. There are many passages related to how this works and why Leto is vulnerable to it. It's partially luck on the Ixians' part, since his own downfall needed to be built into the Golden Path for it to succeed, so the eventual production of a specimen like Hwi was inevitable. Both he and Ix have been changing over the millenia in exactly the ways that would lead them to this outcome. It's not just "they taught her how to seduce him," it's the fact that Leto's prescience accounts for his own behaviorism. He's so prescient that his tyranny is effectively forced determinism down to practically robbing himself of his own free will.

[Anonymous No.23216123]

>>23216034
You know what, I take back all my snark. Thanks for forcing me to put >>23216106 into words, it's reminding me in detail why I love this book so much.

[Anonymous No.23216201]

>>23216095
Not sure if Frank ever addresses it but I would say it's a deliberate tactic to keep power concentrated. What's the point of a great family whose power is divided amongst millions of members? Even if that existed, most likely a small group with the "purest" blood would still be in control and the rest would only loosely be considered part of the actual family.

[Anonymous No.23216256]

this is why this book sucks ass bro what the fuck is that writing and plot? Body pillow waifu neuters the universes god emperor because trust me bro she just does because of the ixians? come dude GEoD is just fuccboi hype. Heretics redeemers this

[Anonymous No.23216292]

>>23216256
How would you entice an omniscient emperor into destroying himself?

[Anonymous No.23216486]

>>23210590
Depending on what you're looking for, Hyperion (and The Fall Of) might work.

[Anonymous No.23216968]

>>23214888
Checked and peeped it out, seems like kino, love me some Dick

[Anonymous No.23216996]

>>23216256
>Body pillow waifu neuters the universes god emperor
this was extremely ahead of its time
think about it

[Anonymous No.23217053]

>>23209696
2>4>1>5=3>>>>6

please recommend me books, thanks

[Anonymous No.23217357]

>>23210070
the best part of the book was alia crying to duncan while having her visions after OD'ing on spice tho

[Anonymous No.23217361]

>>23216292
by making it so that any other alternative is far far worse

[Anonymous No.23217373]

>"Would you still love me if I were a worm?"

[Anonymous No.23217378]

>>23217373
imagine if you could see the future, and all you see is yourself becoming an immortal worm

[Anonymous No.23217384]

>>23217378
>imagine if you could see the future, and all you see is yourself becoming an immortal worm
Not even any hands to play vidya.

[Anonymous No.23217401]

>>23217361
The alternatives ARE worse, which is why he has already orchestrated things to go this way.

[Anonymous No.23217539]

does he poop? what happened to his butthole?

[Anonymous No.23217575]

I was always under the impression that everything after the first novel was pure trash. Did the opinion change throughout the years or was I tripping? At least that's what I remember from online discussions of the book long before the first DUNC was announced.

[Anonymous No.23217605]

>>23217575
1 is good, 2 and 3 are alright, 4 is very much love or hate, 5 and 6 are universally trash.

[Anonymous No.23217606]

>>23217575
It seems like it's relatively common to think 2 or 4 is the best these days, not sure if that's new though.

[Anonymous No.23217625]

>>23217605
Trash seems strong, I'm enjoying 5 well enough.

[Anonymous No.23217645]

>>23217625
No, I think it's about right though it's been a few years since I've read them.
I recall them being anime-type bullshit with every character being a 200 IQ ninja or something along those lines.

[Anonymous No.23217752]

>>23210295
Paul scaring scaring the pilot is it

[Anonymous No.23218069]

>>23210676
Children is the one I can say you watch the TV series for if you get yourself too bored with it. But if you aren't marathoning the books, I don't see why reading Children of Dune will be that boring.

[Anonymous No.23218945]

I finished Chapterhouse. Any reason to go past it? Did Brian do a good job of continuing the story or should I not even attempt it?

[Anonymous No.23219006]

>>23218945
How was Chapterhouse, hell how was Heretics? I stopped at God Emperor.

[Anonymous No.23219011]

>>23217373
is that rocco siffredi inside the tube?

[Anonymous No.23219130]

>>23209703
That's a very naughty boy.

[Anonymous No.23219202]

>>23219006
>How was Chapterhouse
Extremely fucking horny
>how was Heretics?
Also really horny

I'd say they're worth it just to see the result of Lato's golden path. Lot of crazy shit happening.

[Anonymous No.23219235]

>>23219202
You really gotta read them just because the community has no consensus whatsoever. I'm pretty confident that there's a reasonable subset that ranks the series in each of the 720 possible orders, impossible to tell whether they'll be your favorite or if you'll think they're a stain on the series without reading them. I've even seen people who didn't like Heretics and Chapterhouse was their favorite so there's just no telling.

[Anonymous No.23219283]

Should I get the box set? I already get what the Golden Path is and understand the themes Herbert was driving at just because I'm a lorehound, is it still worth reading?

[Anonymous No.23219384]

>>23209696
Am I able to stop at God Emperor? Does the story finish itself well with this book? I don’t really want to read anything not written by Frank Herbert calling itself his story.

[Anonymous No.23219432]

>>23219384
I'm reading Heretics right now. It's good but doesn't feel necessary at all, since humanity has already been saved by Leto the stakes are a little strange. Seems like we just arbitrarily picked a cast of characters to root for and prescience is basically nonexistent so it might as well be a new sci-fi story entirely. Like I said in >>23219235, though, you should probably just read them. It's not like the fucking Wheel of Time, it's only two more books.

[Anonymous No.23219738]

>>23219384
The bene gesserit pussy magic stuff is too weird and horny for me, and the plot is a convoluted mess. The high note of it was
>Taraza cleared her throat. "No need. Lucilla is one of our finest Imprinters. Each of you, of course, received the identical liberal conditioning to prepare you for this."
> There was something almost insulting in Taraza's casual tone and only the habits of long association put down Odrade's immediate resentment. It was partly that word "liberal," she realized. Atreides ancestors rose up in rebellion at the word. It was as though her accumulated female memories lashed out at the unconscious assumptions and unexamined prejudices behind the concept.
> "Only liberals really think. Only liberals are intellectual. Only liberals understand the needs of their fellows."
> How much viciousness lay concealed in that word! Odrade thought. How much secret ego demanding to feel superior.
> Odrade reminded herself that Taraza, despite the casually insulting tone, had used the term only in its catholic sense: Lucilla's generalized education had been carefully matched to that of Odrade.
Honestly just stop reading at Children of Dune, maybe GEoD if you want to hear a boomers ramblings about politics and gender

[Anonymous No.23220442]

>>23219432
>>23219738
Thank you for the answers, lads. Much respect for both of your closing statements.

[Anonymous No.23221694]

>>23216486
agree with this, Hyperion reads very similarly imo