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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

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23209213 No.23209213 [Reply] [Original]

Wolfe, and why he's mediocre

>Uninteresting stories with vague reasons to have anyone be invested in them
Check
>The stories are retread previous stories, but again, without good reasons to be invested in them
Check
>Doesn't understand what makes a good story in the first place
Check
>Very boring monologues, infodumps, and allusions. They do not inspire anyone truly familiar with literature as a field.
Check
>Barely functional prose, even when he's trying to be poetic
Check
>Doesn't understand people
Check
>Poorly written female characters
Check
>His detractors are intelligent and well-spoken in their critiques against him
Check
>His fans are too stupid to convincingly defend him
Check

>> No.23209228
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23209228

Man you just really wanna argue about why dont like Wolfe huh

>> No.23209233
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23209233

The Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe, monsieur?

Every character you meet in the story turns up again, hundreds of miles away, to reveal that they are someone else and have been secretly controlling the action of the plot. It feels like the entire world is populated by about fifteen people who follow the narrator around wherever he goes. If the next two books continue along the same lines, then the big reveal will be that the world is entirely populated by no more than three superpowered shapeshifters.

Everyone in the book has secret identities, secret connections to grand conspiracies, and important plot elements that they conveniently hide until the last minute, only doling out clues here and there. There are no normal people in this world, only double agents and kings in disguise. Every analysis I've read of this book mentions that even the narrator is unreliable.

This can be an effective technique, but in combination with a world of infinite, unpredictable intrigue, Wolfe's story begins to evoke something between a soap opera and a convoluted mystery novel, relying on impossible and contradictory scenarios to mislead the audience. Apparently, this is the thing his fans most appreciate about him—I find it to be an insulting and artificial game.

There is simply not enough structure to the story to make the narrator's unreliability meaningful. In order for unreliable narration to be effective, there must be some clear and evident counter-story that undermines it. Without that, it is not possible to determine meaning, because there's nowhere to start: everything is equally shaky.

At that point, it's just a trick—adding complexity to the surface of the story without actually producing any new meaning. I know most sci-fi and fantasy authors seem to love complexity for its own sake, but it's a cardinal sin of storytelling: don't add something into your story unless it needs to be there. Covering the story with a lot of vagaries and noise may impress some, but won't stand up to careful reading.

>> No.23209236

>>23209213
Why would you waste time on this? To provoke others into wasting time on yourself?

>> No.23209248

>>23209233
>Every character you meet in the story turns up again, hundreds of miles away, to reveal that they are someone else and have been secretly controlling the action of the plot.
Okay, a Wolfe fan who might have real talent.

Show examples of this, and how it is narratively justified and consummated, if you would please.

If this is just a copypasta it only goes to show that Wolfe's fandom is pathetic.

>> No.23209256

>>23209236
Yes. There has been one anti-Wolfe poster here for years. He literally gets off on shitposting about Wolfe. That’s his whole reason for existence. And he will never be remembered, die in obscurity, probably by auto-erotic asphyxiation whilst jacking it to loli hentai.

>> No.23209260

>>23209248
??

>> No.23209286

>>23209248
>/lit/ poster
>can't read
every time

>> No.23209289

>>23209286
>>23209260
I got the idea now.

>> No.23209307

>>23209256
Same could be said of Wolfe desu, nobody of importance is even aware of his existence. Only fantasy obsessed nerds with no other interests in their life would even consider reading the slop he churns out.

>> No.23209589

>>23209233
I read this book and I didn't get that at all

>> No.23209598

>>23209256
>>23209307
People hate Wolfe because his fans overrate him which leads to people to reading and wasting their time on him. And they're annoying because they can't explain what's so great about him, because there isn't. There have been plenty of anons who've attacked Wolfe.

>> No.23209623

>>23209598
I think Wolfe is perectly rated. What do you think it's unfair about the treatment he receives?