Books to help with Gender Dysphoria

[Anonymous No.23168415]

Do you fuckers have any book recs on how to deal with being completely fucked in the head?
I've tried very hard to pull this out of my mind but an existential desire to present myself with the social identity of a woman, assume the patterns of thought and behaviour commonly associated with women, doesn't want to leave my fucking head and is driving me insane.
IWNBAW but all this does is make me want to curl up and cry
I don't want to be a troon or a part of the alphabet tribe, I just want peace of mind
>What does this have to do with literature?
Not much, this is just the board I've spent most time on and whose opinions and outlooks I find least retarded

[Anonymous No.23168432]

>>23168415
SWtG and never look back anon.

[Anonymous No.23168435]

Perhaps stoicism? Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, lots of topics related to the theme of not becoming attached to something, and the smallness of human issues compared to the whole world...

[Anonymous No.23168439]

>>23168415
can't you just be a man and accept that you like girly things?

[Anonymous No.23168449]

>an existential desire to present myself with the social identity of a woman, assume the patterns of thought and behaviour commonly associated with women
perhaps this desire stems from jealousy. do you like the accoutrements of being a woman, i.e. makeup and clothing and that sort of pageantry, or do you envy their social standing, where they are universally accepted without really have to do much more other than exist, and all that makeup and pageantry is done only to draw attention to themselves.
were you sexually molested as a child? were you circumcised?
like you said, YWNBAW, so the only answer lies within. I'd recommend changing your diet, reducing sugar, gluten and dairy intake because those are inflammatory, limit your screentime and pornography consumption, get more sunlight in general, and engage in more physical activity.
you are what you are, and you'd best come to grips with the nature of your existence as a human and as an animal

[Anonymous No.23168455]

>>23168415
It might just be a sad part of you that's always there, to a greater or lesser degree. Maybe you really would be happier if born 200 years in the future when transitioning was No Big Deal and didn't carry any of this political baggage. Living today, probably the best thing you can do is to try not to actively repress it, but to instead occupy your life with other things and other interests. If I had to bet, I'd say these desires probably feel overwhelming because there aren't other things in your life right now that touch you at the same 'soul level', for lack of a better term. But you can find those things if you're patient and follow your interests and manage to chill out somewhat about those distressing thoughts. I speak as someone who was very deep in a similar mental situation.

[Anonymous No.23168465]

>>23168415
just take estrogen already. repressing will only make you more miserable

[Anonymous No.23168471]

>>23168415
gender is a linguistic problem not a biological one, anon. Its gonna be ok

[Anonymous No.23168511]

>>23168415
this + Joseph Nicolosi/Van den Aardweg if you also suffer from homosexuality

[Anonymous No.23168518]

>>23168432
What does that mean?
>ngmi
Ik ik
>>23168435
Honestly, I blame this shit almost as much as my fucked up brain for my situation
If I wasn't playing life in third person, maybe it would be easier to accept myself for what I am
>>23168449
>jealousy
I would enjoy getting a bit more affection easily but I also get angry when people complement me
I already overdress, know far too much about perfumes and skincare
Honestly, the idea of just passively getting attention like women usually do scares me. Sometimes, I've tried listing off things I like doing that I wouldn't be able to do if people saw me as a woman but for reasons I do not understand, my brain seems to think the trade off a good one
I masturbate like once every three weeks and I don't really watch porn, I can only really get off on erotica that has a semi decent plot
Unless you count fruit sugar, I eat sweets very rarely and I work out
>>23168455
Wow, you're a mind reader
I came to a new country this year and the last few months were largely dysphoria free because my brain was so busy with new data and people. Now that this has dried up, the dysphoria seems to want to draw blood for all the months it let me off the hook
>>23168471
What do you mean?

[Anonymous No.23168563]

>>23168415
you are transgender
republicans will only make your life hell
God put the soul of a woman inside the body of a man
why did He do this? no idea but you need to make the body conform to the soul and not the other way around, because the soul is the person
a therapist will help you more than any book but you could try reading Gender Euphoria by Laura Kate Dale

[Anonymous No.23168570]

>>23168518
I meant it in the opposite sense. You can make it. You know and I know. I have faith in you anon.

[Anonymous No.23168578]

>>23168563
Gender dysphoria/transgenderism is a corruption of one‘s true nature since it‘s the result of childhood trauma

[Anonymous No.23168582]

>when my state is conservative but everyone is fine with trannies apparently
nobody has said mean shit to me yet lol

[Anonymous No.23168583]

>>23168563
Stop gaslighting vulnerable people into mutilating their bodies and violating their dignity

[Anonymous No.23168600]

>>23168582
which state is that?

[Anonymous No.23168608]

>>23168415

[Anonymous No.23168616]

>>23168600
not telling you

anyway OP you should read some general self-help books. Being trans and ugly is surely hell but I'm pretty cute and I'm feeling good about myself
have a gem

[Anonymous No.23168618]

>>23168570
Oh I'm sorry, I meant, what does "SWtG" and the ngmi was the hypothetical response to me not knowing what it means
But please, I'm completely retarded, what do you mean that you have faith I'll make it?

[Anonymous No.23168624]

>>23168616
I am not an american, just curious about where it's that like, I thought all conservative states are pretty much the same on this topic

[Anonymous No.23168628]

>>23168608
Not OP, but an unironically big issue for me in moving past my secret ultrafamme fantasy side is that crossdressing erotica is the only creative format in which I've able to productively work.

[Anonymous No.23168635]

Paglia's Sexual Personae and Elémire Zolla's L'Androgino.
These two are the ones that helped me the most.

[Anonymous No.23168636]

>>23168624
I'm kind of close to a big lefty city so it might be osmosis but I'm pretty far out in the country-side.
I think there's just simple rules to follow. Be attractive or young-looking and don't confuse or scare any children. Dress appropriately, you know?

[Anonymous No.23168652]

What do you think the behaviors and patterns of thoughts commonly associated with women are? What is it that you want to do that you can't do if you admit you are a male? Picture related, a biological woman.

[Anonymous No.23168666]

Maybe reading the biography of someone transracial will help you. Sometimes god puts the soul of black people in white bodies for some reason, it's very weird. But it is the same phenomena as transgenderism.

[Anonymous No.23168687]

Or you could read about people who desperately want to be dragons. Sometimes god puts dragon souls in human bodies.

[Anonymous No.23168694]

>>23168563
I’m not trying to say this as a dogmatic conservative (I differ from the dogmas of conservative on many issues) or “anti-trans chud” but isn’t it just as possible that transgenderism reveals a body-obsession? As well as, strangely, an implicit belief in gender essentialism, as much as theorists may try to dance around this (viz., that a person “really is a male deep on the inside because they feel that way, or really a female deep on the inside because they feel that way”).

I don’t want transgender people to unnecessarily suffer, and I really don’t have any personal animus against them. I just think the whole thing is a big head-scratcher and I’m reduced to being a big bumbling oaf before it, because “both sides” seem to have good points about it (opposing points: it could be a social contagion and have deleterious effects on young children if they’re pushed into transgenderism because it’s “trendy” [as examples are given of in Abigail Shrier’s “Irreversible Damage”], setting a precedent of compelled speech for using people’s preferred pronouns seems dangerous and like a genuine slippery slope, biologically-born-men still retain a biological advantage over women even after transitioning and them being in women’s sports seems unfair, cases of women being made to feel very uncomfortable from biological-men-with-penises being allowed into their dressing-rooms/spas/gym locker rooms at school etc, and that those who regret transitioning are a small but still existing minority who should be taken just as seriously as we also take the incredibly small minority already of trans people, etc.).

The precedent of compelled speech in this matter, that’s also being particularly justified by “how vulnerable and sensitive trans people are”, particularly highlighting their mental issues and risk of suicide, also seems like a dangerous societal precedent that’s essentially “crybullying” taken to the max — the precedent that there are certain ideas or victimized groups who can’t be questioned or criticized, and if you do you can be publicly crucified with loss of job, education, reputation, etc., because you’re “literally pushing them to suicide” (or “support trans genocide”).

This probably sounds like I’m being overly provocative for no reason and like I’m the same “anti-trans chud” I said I wasn’t trying to be, but, keep in mind, such an automatic reaction and dismissal is precisely why some people begin to fear/despise this “movement” if you can call it that (which so much as says, “You’re either with us or against us”.)

[Anonymous No.23168700]

>>23168518
>What do you mean?
you can't actually define a man/woman to me. People most of the time resort to naming characteristics often associated with the sex. This however, always leads to contradictions
>a woman is a person with a vagina
people you would say look and act like women, but are born with Vaginal Agenesis by this definition cannot be women
>a woman is a person with XX chromosomes
people born with XXY and XYY cannot be either gender, then
>a woman is someone who acts and looks like a woman!
how does a woman and and look like?

[Anonymous No.23168701]

>>23168687
women are exactly like mythical monsters, perfect analogy

[Anonymous No.23168705]

>>23168618
Start with the Greeks. Plato, Aristotle, pre-socratics. It is faith, I can reduce the process to logic I guess but it won't have the same symbolic conveyance. In the past for similar threads I have actually reduced the process to logic and it ended up being a fiasco. I have made the process one in which there are 2 responses to simplify the process of conveyance and avoid similar fiascos. I have faith you will make it anon!

[Anonymous No.23168707]

>>23168415
>IWNBAW
True

[Anonymous No.23168721]

>>23168705
>names useless metaphysicians
we dont take kindly to your kind in these parts, partner

[Anonymous No.23168724]

>>23168705
What do Greeks have to do with transgenderism

[Anonymous No.23168732]

>>23168721
>>23168724
When you Troon out be sure to spend the money to look like a porn star. They charge a bit more but it's always worth it.

[Anonymous No.23168741]

>>23168732
aristotelian TOPPED by facts and logic

[Anonymous No.23168744]

>>23168415
Two questions:
First, could you please elaborate on what this feeling you have is?
Second, why don't you get in touch with your "feminine" side?
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with men liking girly things (it's not like it is written in biology that women must like dresses, pink, etc. and vice versa, it's only culture).
I really don't understand why trans-people think that you need to change your gender to enjoy gender stereotypes, or that by embracing gender stereotypes, you somehow change your gender.
e.g. A male dressing up in a dress to "become" a woman is essentially denying the womanhood of a woman who doesn't enjoy dresses. Wearing a dress is not an essential part of being a woman, but a superficial aspect of culture.

Finally, have you ever considered that you may have an underlying mental illness that is presenting itself as dysphoria?
Maybe talk to a therapist. If you are uncomfortable with a therapist, maybe try OTC supplements? (St. John's Wort seems to help me with anxiety/depressive feelings)

[Anonymous No.23168748]

>>23168652
>What do you think the behaviors and patterns of thoughts commonly associated with women are?
It's culture dependent, I honestly don't really know besides the obvious stuff
>What is it that you want to do that you can't do if you admit you are a male?
Nothing, that's the worst part
I can't think of anything in women I'd want that I don't already have as a man, if anything the additional leg work of being a woman sounds like a pain in the ass
Nevertheless, I can't let an hour slip by without my brain pontificating on how wonderful it'd be if I were a woman
By this, I think my brain understands assuming the social spot of a woman both in its private and social dimensions
I don't really believe in a "real self" doctrine so my brain has replaced the usual way dysphoria is explained through real me bs with the whole social spot stuff
>>23168705
Reading Plato while thinking about how wonderful it would be if I were female was part of my August 2023
Books are my biggest passion and I love the Greeks but my brain is kind of used to books, so they don't really provide the stimulus that "distracts" me from the dysphoria

[Anonymous No.23168753]

>>23168741
Never cheap out on a dominatrix.

[Anonymous No.23168759]

>>23168700
Wow anon you make a great point. This is why transwomen should be fine pissing in urinals with people who look like this, they might just be women.

[Anonymous No.23168763]

>>23168759
couldn't give less of a shit where they piss. Not because im super progressive or anything. I just cant find it in myself to care. Still havent proven me wrong

[Anonymous No.23168766]

>>23168694
>how vulnerable and sensitive
This is a far bigger and more general moral hazard. It's not just a message to the external group to make accommodation, it's a self fulfilling prophecy as it instructs people suicide is part of being vulnerable or sensitive or how to gain accomodation. It's broader than trans, because there's far more people proving the extent of other conditions through suicidal displays because that is how they believe they will be treated seriously.

It cannot be emphasized enough though there is a series of products and services which are deeply vested in medicalisation and commodifying trans because it expands their market.

[Anonymous No.23168768]

>>23168439
I think OP may have the opposite issue, like many troons. Because of some illness, they want to be feminine and female, and so they do feminine things and try to be female. It's not like, "I am fond of pink, baking, and bubble baths. I must be a woman." No, it's the other way around.

[Anonymous No.23168783]

>>23168415
>assume the patterns of thought and behaviour commonly associated with women,
kek this will be good

[Anonymous No.23168785]

>>23168768
NTA, but then how do they come that conclusion of being a woman?
Do they just have some stereotype of men and women are supposed to act or think and think that because they can't relate to their peers that they must be the opposite gender?
Or is it something else entirely?

[Anonymous No.23168786]

>>23168763
You are not wrong, you are right. I'm just saying it's retarded for them to call themselves feminine or female when they are functionally no different from people who call themselves masculine or male. We should just abolish gender labels altogether and sort people by birth genitals. People born with weird intersex genitals can piss in diapers forever or something.

[Anonymous No.23168798]

>>23168783
They make them on a factory line, you know

[Anonymous No.23168800]

>>23168785
It's a mix of autism, coomer brainrot and the realization that male gender roles are unpleasant for nerdy autistics. They want to be put on pedestals like nerdy women.

[Anonymous No.23168830]

>>23168800
>They want to be put on pedestals like nerdy women.
It's not even real nerdy women who get put on pedestals. It's women like costhots and e-whores who pretend to like nerdy hobbies for attention that do.

[Anonymous No.23168832]

>>23168518
>I already overdress, know far too much about perfumes and skincare
>perfumes
so you know perfumes were used to cover unwashed bodies and fool men into thinking the woman is younger than her scent reveals her to be
>skincare
avoid putting on makeup because it leeches nutrients from the skin and avoid getting too much sun. basically just use moisturizers if you need them

[Anonymous No.23168836]

>>23168744
>could you please elaborate on what this feeling you have is?
Imagine a voice inside your head shouting
"Be a woman" over and over and over again
The difference is that this doesn't present itself as a voice talking to me, it's me telling this myself constantly
The explanation in >>23168768 is more or less on point
>do feminine things
I do a lot of "feminine" things but I've never connected them to this feeling:
For example, ever since I was a little boy, I've always peed sitting unless my only choice was a urinal. I've never felt ashamed of this or thought it especially feminine
As has been pointed out to me, I have a lot of girly gestures and standing animations
I love pink, I have two pink shirts I wear all the time
Most of my irl friends are women and I've struggled with guy friend groups, I've never succeeding in being one of the bros
My libido sounds like a woman's apparently?!
I can go on and on but the thing, I've always taken these as natural parts of me being me, I've never connected them to wanting to be a woman
As for >>23168785 I have no fucking idea, it's just lodged in my brain

[Anonymous No.23168858]

>>23168798
Yeah they just pop out of the box with two pink shirts and German bathroom etiquette like the original Barbie

[Anonymous No.23168866]

>>23168744
>Wearing a dress is not an essential part of being a woman
true, but the problem with a man dressing up in a dress is that women's clothing is specifically designed for women's bodies. a man, with broad shoulders and narrow hips, looks utterly uncanny when wearing that kind of clothing. so while dresses aren't an essential part of being a woman at all, they are designed with the female frame in mind

[Anonymous No.23168870]

>>23168836
>For example, ever since I was a little boy, I've always peed sitting unless my only choice was a urinal
you avoided my earlier question. are you circumcised?

[Anonymous No.23168875]

>>23168432
my man

[Anonymous No.23168880]

>>23168415
Trying to repress it will never end well. Do you want to end up as John, 50?

[Anonymous No.23168882]

>>23168866
Women's suits, pants and T-shirts are also designed for their bodies, dresses are not unique in this regard. Same way kilts and other traditional dress-like clothing is designed for male bodies.

[Anonymous No.23168888]

>>23168866
>>23168882
This is just a construction and padding issue. It's extra work, but it's work women do everyday to fit different body type fads.

[Anonymous No.23168895]

>>23168882
right. so if a man wears some long dress muzzie garb designed for men, he doesn't look uncanny. but when he goes down to TJ Maxx and buys a teeny bopper mini skirt and tube top he looks like an utter clown

[Anonymous No.23168896]

>>23168866
On the other hand, in Scotland a kilt is men's clothing, despite being quite similar to what we'd call a skirt here.

[Anonymous No.23168897]

Do you think OP will ever pass? Because I have a feeling that he will be the biggest fucking HON that ever walked the earth.

[Anonymous No.23168901]

>>23168896
>similar
not really. women's skirts are designed to accentuate the feminine form by emphasizing the hips. kilts aren't designed like that

[Anonymous No.23168902]

>>23168895
>long dress muzzie garb
They called kaftans and women wear them more often than men in the west

[Anonymous No.23168906]

>>23168897
No tranny ever passes. At the very most, someone will be confused about your sex for a minute or two before correctly guessing you're male. They just entertain your delusion after that.

[Anonymous No.23168907]

>>23168901
Depends on the skirt, no? I've looked at men in kilts "oh, a man in a skirt... oh wait it's a kilt".

[Anonymous No.23168910]

>>23168902
there are numerous design differences between a man's kaftan and a woman's
just like there are numerous design differences between a man's set of jeans and a woman's

[Anonymous No.23168914]

>>23168906
That might be just the survivorship bias (lol) though, you notice only those that don't pass so then it makes you think none of them do.

[Anonymous No.23168915]

>>23168906
By definition, if you've met a trans person and they passed, you wouldn't know. (Though it is generally easier for FtMs to pass than MtFs, both because of cultural reasons and because the physical effects of testosterone are more drastic. The few who were lucky enough to start transitioning before having to suffer through their natal puberty also tend to pass significantly better.)

[Anonymous No.23168916]

I suffer from transphobia.

[Anonymous No.23168919]

>>23168907
>Depends on the skirt, no?
no. women's clothing is designed to accentuate the feminine form.
>I've looked at men in kilts "oh, a man in a skirt... oh wait it's a kilt"
give me even one example in picture form. a kilt is pretty obviously a kilt

[Anonymous No.23168921]

>>23168919
I don't have any pictures on hand and in any case YMMV, that's just been my experience.

[Anonymous No.23168926]

>>23168415
I dealt with this a decade ago.
The only way I stopped myself before committing was:
>stopped taking my antidepressants
>talked to people in groups who admitted transitioning makes you even more suicidal at your lowpoints
>realize I have to find inner purpose, resilience and patience
>realize there is no silver bullet to have a better life
>accept who you were born as and look to your best family role model

I later took up reading as part of how I built character. Be desperate for nothing. Relax OP.

[Anonymous No.23168927]

>>23168915
>having to suffer through their natal puberty
>suffer
You people are insane

[Anonymous No.23168929]

>>23168910
You picked a bad garment because women culturally appropriated the fuck out of them like they did kimonos, anon. You're ignoring how long jeans weren't gendered as well. I know the point you're trying to make but you don't know enough about clothes to make it.

[Anonymous No.23168934]

>>23168927
If you have gender dysphoria, your natal puberty will cause suffering. Obviously if you don't have gender dysphoria it won't.

[Anonymous No.23168935]

>>23168929
the point I'm making is that men look like clowns when they try to wear clothing designed to accentuate the feminine form. no more, no less. I never professed to understand the ins and outs of the clothing industry or its history

[Anonymous No.23168948]

>>23168836
>Imagine a voice inside your head shouting
>"Be a woman" over and over and over again
I suppose I could understand: I often find myself saying "kill yourself", usually because of some past embarrassment or bad memory.
But it's not like I actually want to; it's just a reaction conditioned by shame (when I was younger, I would imagine myself getting killed brutally as a form of hypothetical "justice" for my wrongdoings).
>I have no fucking idea, it's just lodged in my brain
I doubt that's all there is to it. You probably need to do some self reflection or talk to someone. Otherwise, maybe you just need get the idea that you are a man lodged back into your brain?

>I've always peed sitting unless my only choice was a urinal
I don't see why anyone would think this is feminine. Seems pretty much like just a personal preference.
As for the rest of your points, none of those things seems to mean much to me.
Like, I have pink shirts, doesn't make me less of a man. And is associating with girls a girl thing?
My point is that things you consider "feminine" are just stereotypes; they are only considered feminine because a lot of women do those things.
(If you think your libido is unusual, just talk to a physician, maybe you have low T)
Granted, you said that you don't connect this feeling you have with these things, but maybe this perspective on femininity still affects this feeling?
What does it mean to be a woman to you? Does it mean following some set of ideals, whether they be societal or moral, or is it more physical?

[Anonymous No.23168950]

>>23168465
No, fuck off. Transitioning is fucking harmful & I'm tired of people saying otherwise.

[Anonymous No.23168956]

>>23168948
>I often find myself saying "kill yourself", usually because of some past embarrassment or bad memory
Holy shit, I'm not the only one? I'm rarely even suicidal, but I'll think of an awful cringy memory and I keep subvocalizing "kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself" for 5-6 seconds till I can change the topic in my head

[Anonymous No.23168959]

>>23168866
True, but is the uncanny appearance due to it being intrinsically weird to look at (on a biological level), or is it due to social conditioning (i.e. you have grown up around women wearing dresses and men not, so to see one on a man looks odd to you)?
Also, all clothing is design with a frame in mind. Would a dress designed for a man look better?

[Anonymous No.23168960]

>>23168934
You people who advocate for child transition are monsters. I don't particularly care what grown adults choose to do with their bodies but you want to make these choices for kids who aren't even old enough to understand the long term consequences. Puberty blockers make them infertile before they are old enough to decide whether they want kids of their own and also kill off sexual function. And puberty isn't just about body development it's about brain development too. Kids on blockers end up not getting proper brain development and no it is not reversible. You are actual human butchers

[Anonymous No.23168964]

>>23168956
OMG, that's exactly what happens! I'll find myself whispering "kill yourself" for a few seconds before I realize what I'm saying and stop and look around to make sure nobody heard me.

[Anonymous No.23168980]

>>23168935
But you can create the illusion of a form is a key part of women's clothing history. They didn't invent panniers and hoop skirts because that's the natural way a female looks. Women pad and bind and refit their clothes to look unlike their natural form all the time. All you're saying is anon probably can't wear off the rack, but no woman in the history of fashion has ever tried to look like the garment came off the rack. Women don't have complex body type styling charts because they all can wear the same clothes anyway. The problem for passing is much closer to
>how does every woman know apple in a kaftan is an insult and why do they have a PhD in waistlines and silhouettes?

[Anonymous No.23168986]

>>23168959
>Would a dress designed for a man look better?
yes, unequivocally. we have present day examples from the middle east, india, and the orient
as far as being weird on a biological level vs social conditioning, I'm going to have to lean over to biology. men's clothing accentuates shoulders horizontally and the penis vertically. women's clothing accentuates bust and hips, and is generally more horizontal. a great example is the pinstripe suit. look up on google right now men's vs women's pinstripe suits. men's suits are designed to make the man seem taller. the women's don't create that impression. they simply don't have the same body shape as men.

[Anonymous No.23168995]

>>23168980
>Women pad and bind and refit their clothes to look unlike their natural form all the time
maybe women are more naturally Platonists than we ever gave them credit for. women's bodies come in different shapes, which each individual woman may not be happy with. age and health also plays a pivotal role. all that primping and padding is done to make them seem more feminine.

[Anonymous No.23168997]

>>23168980
Yeah, but most women know what kind of body they have and what kind of clothes she'll look great, okay, or horrible in, just from life experience and how they are treated when they wear outfit A vs. outfit B. Trannies can't ever learn this because they don't grow up as females and women don't treat them like how they treat other women. If a woman is wearing something awful, she'll find out very soon when her girlfriends give her a certain look. Trannies will never get this signal from women to teach them what's good to wear and what's not.

[Anonymous No.23168999]

>>23168700
To me a woman is someone with XX chromosomes, but can change depending on the scope. Attempting to define a woman scientifically would undoubtedly clash with social norms, as one is not reliant on the other, and for good reasons.
>first point
A woman in health treatment and socially mostly, but with nonfunctional reproductive organ, as a potential reproductive mate, she is a nonwoman, simple as. No problem with whoever chose her to be their partner, as many people dont have a need for reproduction anyways.
>second point
Not a woman nor a man. But because we failed to create a category for them socially, the next best thing then is for them to choose themselves into either gender for better social integration. In this case, what is true doesn't affect any of us, so we let it be. An exception, not the rules. They are literally living because our society advanced enough to allow them to exist with their innate impaired functions.
>third point
If it does not concern me enough to look into them further (aka figuring out which WC should they go to, or sports), sure why the fuck not, let them be woman. Again, doesnt affect us, just let it be.

I think my opinion is pretty clear from the 3 examples, but here's the gist: the base for my definition is in chromosomes, but depends on what scope you are asking me, i'll give you a different answer based on what is reasonable.
A male claiming he is woman should not be considered a woman in woman sport, and he should not be given woman-specific treatment for the betterment of his health, but if he asks me nicely, sure, I can consider him a woman when communicating with him.

[Anonymous No.23169017]

>>23168995
They'll even get dangerous experimental surgery to fit a trend, and then undo it in another dangerous procedure to fit the new trend. These are people who have a face painting regimen to not feel naked and disgraced.
>>23168997
It's not through feedback from wearing the outfit. Women study it. They do have charts. Multiple. It's not that men can't learn it too, or trans can't either, but it's studying fashion and media that gets women there. Very few women who give opinions to other women, whether good or bad, on their clothing are ever being honest. They're not just trying to trans, they are very much lying to Suzie in accounting they love her skirt and want to know where it's from.

[Anonymous No.23169021]

>>23169017
>not just trying to trans
*Lying* to

[Anonymous No.23169046]

Either way, turning yourself into a convincing woman is about as likely and turning yourself into a convincing bird OP. Just accept this and learn to cope with your natural body. People get dealt shit hands they can't change in terms of genetics all the time, no point ruining your life over something you can't change. Surround yourself with positive influences and do introspection to find out what your real problem is (there is always something beyond the surface level "I want to be a woman").

[Anonymous No.23169069]

>>23168415
desu I find Jung's extension on the idea of male/female dichotomy living nonetheless within every representation of the opposite to be a good way of accepting your inner troon as the shadow of the coomer. The shadow grows bigger the more you shine your spotlight on it, so the first step would be to definitely stop thinking about it. Or confront it and embrace it.
I used to think being a woman would be pretty nice. I wore my sister's panties once. I still think about wearing high heels and hitting the dance floor somewhere or feeling safe in my femininity but I understand it's the ebb to the waves of life: of banging women, masturbating, fantasies and desires of making harem cults or fucking off to the wild and living from the earth. To the tiring game of maleness and all its ego-feeding and intellectual postures and aggressive normalcy and sociopath truth and the seeing women in their baffling ineptitude and natural idiocy and feeling some sort of appreciation for it that transcends the erotic. I don't think that's your case but reading the thread you don't seem to understand what your case even is. So I'd start there.
Addendum: I think every man feels this way sometimes, and most repress it which leads to lashing out against it because most men are not comfortable with their manhood to begin with. Hence the recoiling and disgust at the topic. This might be one of the few cases of reactive, behavioralist entropy I find somewhat helpful though.

[Anonymous No.23169077]

>>23168960
Just puberty blockers on their own are bad, I agree. That's why trans kids should get actual proper HRT to begin with.

[Anonymous No.23169080]

>>23168766
Sad but true, thank you for the engagement, always a little disappointed when I effort-post and get ignored, but when I’m lucky some thoughtful poster responds eventually.

And even all that aside, I agree with these obvious issues being pointed out, but don’t really know what’s right for transgender individuals like OP. I try to wish everyone well so long as they’re not directly fucking me or others over in egregious ways, but there’s also the real risk of this movement being used as a political cudgel and sledgehammer to make far-reaching, wide-ranging changes in society, media, education, sports, and politics that are far from being necessarily necessarily for the best.

[Anonymous No.23169084]

>>23168999
>To me a woman is someone with XX chromosomes
So if someone has XY chromosomes but because of an unusual condition develops with a female phenotype, that person is a man (or a woman in the vice versa case)? Even if they don't even know they have that condition and have been living perceived as a woman (or man) all their life?

[Anonymous No.23169098]

>>23169080
>transgender individuals like OP
even putting aside the physical impossibility of transitioning - the best we can do is roughly frankenstein tier, at best - I see nothing in the OP that actually suggests the OP is trans.

[Anonymous No.23169109]

>>23169098
>I've tried very hard to pull this out of my mind but an existential desire to present myself with the social identity of a woman, assume the patterns of thought and behaviour commonly associated with women, doesn't want to leave my fucking head and is driving me insane.
>IWNBAW but all this does is make me want to curl up and cry
By what definition is this not transgender?

[Anonymous No.23169129]

don't talk shit about op I claim him as my ugly tranny waifu

[Anonymous No.23169132]

>>23169109
because he's harping about the outward social identity and power that women enjoy. it's jealousy, nothing more. my dog can run faster than me. I wish I could run as fast as my dog, but I definitely don't want to be a dog. simply put he's jealous of some of the perks, and none of the actual reality

[Anonymous No.23169141]

>>23169132
'Existential desire' sounds more like desiring something for its own sake.

[Anonymous No.23169159]

>>23169141
he desires the ideal, not the truth
fortunately he also seems to understand it is fundamentally beyond his reach

[Anonymous No.23169162]

>>23169109
NTA, but this sounds more like gender dysphoria than transgenderism. If he attempts to transition, then he would be trans.

[Anonymous No.23169171]

>>23169162
and the OP still hasn't answered whether or not he's circumcised, so I'm inclined to believe he has been. given the potential body dysmorphia that that can cause I'd say it's impossible to diagnose him as gender dysphoric.

[Anonymous No.23169179]

>>23169171
Circumcision can cause body dysmorphia?

[Anonymous No.23169207]

why is this thread still up? fuck off you fucking freaks this isn't literature

[Anonymous No.23169217]

>>23169179
of course. it's a radical surgery that removes roughly 50% of penile tissue on average, and in the worst case so called botches can cause horrific scarring, lifelong pain or death by blood loss.

[Anonymous No.23169230]

>>23169217
I haven't heard of this, do you have evidence?

[Anonymous No.23169236]

>>23169217
>50% of penile tissue on average
>50%
anon I ... I'm sorry if this was your case but it's not supposed to be like that

[Anonymous No.23169241]

>>23169230
sure
https://med.stanford.edu/newborns/professional-education/circumcision/complications.html

[Anonymous No.23169246]

>>23169241
I mean for the part about it causing body dysmorphia- I can't find any mention of it here.

[Anonymous No.23169248]

>>23169236
it's true. circumcision removes the middle of the penis and stiches the bottom part to the top. because the foreskin is double layer, inner mucousa and outer skin, a great deal of tissue is removed routinely

[Anonymous No.23169251]

>>23168415
do you like big dicks?

[Anonymous No.23169262]

>>23169246
Isn't that evident simply on it's face? There are articles out there about amputees feeling dysmorphic. Losing such a large amount of sexual sensory input would certainly cause dysmorphia in some victims.

[Anonymous No.23169266]

>>23169262
You can't just sit in your armchair and derive facts about the external world from first principles, you have to actually go out and look.

[Anonymous No.23169267]

>>23169262
And for the record I'm opposed to infant circumcision too unless it's medically necessary for some reason (which it rarely is)

[Anonymous No.23169274]

>>23169266
do you need to cut off you hand first in order to learn you won't be able to pick stuff up with it anymore?

[Books are for retards No.23169276]

>>23168415
“Money’s Hidden Magic,”
find the pdf, faggots!

[Anonymous No.23169277]

>>23169274
That's not the same thing and you know it. Body dysmorphia is a psychological result, not a physical one. I'm not saying it's implausible that circumcision may lead to it, I'm saying that you need actual evidence for such a claim.

[Anonymous No.23169293]

>>23169277
>Body dysmorphia is a psychological result, not a physical one
not really. very often there is a physical cause.
>According to the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE), ‘Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD) is characterised by a preoccupation with an imagined defect in appearance, or in the case of a slight physical anomaly, the person’s
concern is markedly excessive.’1 BDD is characterised by time-consuming behaviours such as mirror gazing, comparing particular features to those of others, excessive camouflaging tactics to hide the defect, skin picking and reassurance seeking.
https://www.jprasurg.com/article/S1748-6815(10)00170-1/pdf

[Anonymous No.23169306]

>>23169293
Yes, there's often a physical cause. But dysmorphia itself is a psychological phenomenon, and you have not provided any actual evidence that circumcision causes it (though I'm not saying it's completely implausible that it might).

[Anonymous No.23169314]

>>23169306
bullshit
circumcision leaves a very visible scar and some are done significantly more slapdash than others. you've seen from the stanford complications page there are multiple, multiple things that can go wrong with the surgery and lead to detrimental patient outcomes and general dissatisfaction

[Anonymous No.23169315]

>>23169293
>Physical anomalies cause body dysmorphia
So why the focus on circumcision in particular?
Do you have any proof that it causes dysmorphia at a higher rate than other anomalies?

[Anonymous No.23169318]

>>23169315
>So why the focus on circumcision in particular?
in the case of trangenderism it seems a likely culprit

[Anonymous No.23169322]

>>23169318
>seems a likely culprit
Soooo... no.

[Anonymous No.23169323]

>>23169314
Again you have provided no empirical evidence, only "seems like it must logically be".

[Anonymous No.23169330]

>>23169323
I don't need a peer reviewed study to tell me hacking up an infant's genitals can lead to psychological problems down the road.

[Anonymous No.23169332]

>>23169330
You cannot arrive at true beliefs about reality by sitting in your armchair and thinking without going out and looking. Period.

[Anonymous No.23169337]

>>23169332
I think you unravel the mystery of this existence by killing yourself.

[Anonymous No.23169340]

>>23169337
How very mature of you. I accept your concession.

[Anonymous No.23169346]

>>23169330
It's not a question of "can it?", but a question of "has it?" and the rate of which it happens.
There are many other possible causes of psychological issues, so understanding which ones actually cause a person problems is integral to coming up with practical solutions.

[Anonymous No.23169363]

>>23168415
>I don't want to be a troon or a part of the alphabet tribe, I just want peace of mind
Uh, a self-hating and self-denying troon. Don't go that way.

Do you have autogynephilia? Do you watch extensive amounts of porn? Congratulations, you're probably a sexual degenerate and should throw your computer out immediately, stop watching porn and quit the internet cold turkey before it's too late. Get a hobby and a life, maybe join some kind of an IRL community to keep you busy, the thoughts should disappear.

If you actually had thoughts of becoming a woman since childhood, were feminine, the thought of being a woman doesn't sexually arouse you and you're 100% sure that it isn't a fetish, you probably have an actual case of gender dysphoria and I'd think about transitioning if I was on your place, albeit only if I was pretty sure that I would be passable, because who the fuck would want to look like one of those MtF abominations. Look, you only have a single life, if you want to look like a woman, go for it. Just don't mutilate yourself by cutting off your wiener, so that it's reversible. Or just go full femboy mode. Or become a fag.

[Anonymous No.23169366]

>>23168415
no bad parts

the attention revolution

break through pain by shinzen young

Happiness beyond thought by Gary Weber

[Anonymous No.23169483]

>>23169084
Yes. Just like if some hairy kid was raised by a schizo who raised them like a sasquatch and told them they were a sasquatch all their life it wouldn't make them a sasquatch.

[Anonymous No.23169489]

>>23169483
Even if they can get pregnant?

[Anonymous No.23169498]

>>23168415
you need to think your situation all the way through to the best possible conclusion. Gender changes are superficial and will not do anything for your mental health. Build good habits and look into self-therapy using neuroscience as a framework, you can learn tons of this on youtube. Start with a healthy mind and the rest will follow anon, we love you!

[Anonymous No.23169506]

>>23168836
Why would you take what the voice in your head says seriously? Mine shouts nonsense insults all day like an autistic kid with tourette's. It doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous No.23169515]

>>23169489
XY individuals with a female phenotype cannot get pregnant. They do not have wombs or ovaries. The way they usually find out they are male is in their early teens when menarche fails to start and they get checked out at the doc only to find out they have undescended testes and no female internal reproductive organs. Either way, this syndrome is irrelevant to the trans phenomenon because it's not these people trooning out. 99.9% of troons are fully functional males with XY chromosomes, functioning dick and balls and nothing out of place.

[Anonymous No.23169527]

>>23169489
Yes. The hairy kid could do sasquatch stuff too, it wouldn't make him a sasquatch. Picture related, it's Zana of Abkhazia the retarded hairy woman who was treated like a sasquatch all her life.

[Anonymous No.23169528]

>>23169515
In the case of CAIS, no, but there have been reports of fertility in the case of women with predominantly 46,XY karyotype.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/

[Anonymous No.23169535]

>fag man has dysphoria because he wants to be a girls sleepover makeup ethereal itty bitty riot grrrl doe fox bunny sylvia plath sisterhood with other women in the bathroom of a bar goth girl
Stunning in brave
>i have dysphoria because im not a 7 foot tall mr olympia heavyweight boxing champion with a 20 inch penis
Repressed homosexual fascist who should be locked away

[Anonymous No.23169540]

>>23169515
>Either way, this syndrome is irrelevant to the trans phenomenon because it's not these people trooning out.
The point isn't directly about trans people, but about how chromosomes are not actually a sufficient definition of gender in any common-sense way.
>>23169535
Gender dysphoria is a known medical condition. Bodybuilder dysphoria isn't.

[Anonymous No.23169583]

>>23169540
>The point isn't directly about trans people, but about how chromosomes are not actually a sufficient definition of gender in any common-sense way.
NTA, but if you are defining gender, it doesn't really matter what the definition is as long as it is accepted.
Historically, it meant the same thing as sex up until the 20th century, a biological category. Chromosomes are a very practical way of assigning a category (it's not like mathematics, where definitions can be made precisely without consideration for the physical world).
Contemporarily, it means a cultural category (the societal role a person falls into based on attributes that are shared between the majority of members of the same sex, or that are traditionally expressed by members of that sex).
Just thought I should offer this clarification since you two keep on talking about gender like it means sex.

[Anonymous No.23169595]

>>23169583
>Historically, it meant the same thing as sex up until the 20th century, a biological category.
But sex also has edge cases, like CAIS.

[Anonymous No.23169597]

>>23168415

[Anonymous No.23169668]

>>23169595
Yeah, you will always have edge cases that defy the norms.
The point is that you don't let those outliers define the categories, but use categories that can account for the vast majority of the data.
The more precisely you define the categories, the more categories you will be left with.
It would be like taking eye color, where many colors could be called "blue" or you could start defining even more precise categories (like "light blue", "baby blue", "cornflower", etc.).
You may get a more inclusive system, but it will likely never be perfect (since humanity is still evolving, there will eventually be new kinds of outliers).
And it begins to lose its practicality since one needs to use more precise systems of measurement and keep track of more categories.

[Anonymous No.23170065]

>>23168950
you will regret this, John 50

[Anonymous No.23170070]

>>23168415

[Anonymous No.23170155]

>>23168415
You need God. No book will help you. Even the Bible means nothing without the connection.
You are not a woman. You will never be a woman. That's the plain truth. Therefore if you feel that desire, it's some lack of God's presence you have in your soul.

[Anonymous No.23170162]

>>23168465
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.23170165]

>>23168563
Kill yourself

[Anonymous No.23170177]

Human mind is funny. The harder you seek to deny and reject something, the more you end up obsessing over it. But accept an impulse as it is, explore it with an open mind, and it eventually ceases to be interesting.

[Anonymous No.23170185]

>>23170177
Yeah, except that trans mutilation of the body is irreparable you fucking jackass.

[Anonymous No.23170187]

>>23168415
>Do you fuckers have any book recs on how to deal with being completely fucked in the head?
Just stop, you fucking freak. Just wear fucking pants if you have a Y chromosome and a skirt if you don't. Just stop being human fucking garbage thinking your sExUaLiTy is an identity. Literally go outdoors. Learn to work with your hands. Do something difficult that requires responsibility instead of just obsessing over yourself and how precious snowflake unique you are and how badly you need to eXpReSs tHe rEaL you by dressing up like a fucking fruitcake and desperately begging for attention any way you can get it.

You are an infantile narcissist, and it's time you realized the world isn't about you.

[Anonymous No.23170188]

>>23170187
No, you're an infantile narcissist and this isn't the way to help someone who's asking for help.

[Anonymous No.23170193]

>>23170188
>*trannie destroys own life and lives of all those close to him*
>umm no HEH akshually i'm not the narcissist, it's anyone telling me i'm a disgusting selfish ingrate

You're an infantile narcissist and the world isn't about you.

[Anonymous No.23170194]

>>23170070
>>23170155
I have been smashing my head on the ground during prayer hoping for an answer and guidance but He is silent
He usually responds pretty quickly and directly to what I ask of Him
On this one issue though, no matter how much I scream or cry, there is just silence
>>23170177
What do you mean explore it?
I was kinda hoping it'd grow boring after 11 years of occupying way too much space in my head but here I am

[Anonymous No.23170201]

>>23170193
I'm not the OP and I'm not trans, you sadistic whiny pussy.

[Anonymous No.23170205]

>>23170194
Anon he's silent because you don't believe.
Be honest. How much porn do you watch
How much do you think about sex

[Anonymous No.23170214]

>>23170201
Then why reply, insecure retard? Narcissists of a feather, thinking everything is about him.
>how dare you criticize me at all despite the fact I'm obviously displaying serious mental problems and cannot function properly in society
>I just wanted praise and hugs for being so brave to tell everyone how I'm suffering! me me me!

>>23170188
>someone who's asking for help.
You literally can't get help until you admit you have a problem, and your problem is narcissism. Your problem isn't "oh man I just REALLY need to wear a dress and get FUCKED in the ass by HARD COCKS and lock my leeeetle tiny dick in a CAGE, oh man I NEED that so much cuz adulting is HARD". Your problem is you're a weak, self-absorbed hedonist who refuses to realize the world isn't about him and his petty identitycult needs.

[Anonymous No.23170218]

>>23170205
>he's silent because you don't believe
Then why does He speak to me on literally every other issue and I can reliable follow the path set out before me
>how much porn do you watch
Last time I saw a picture was in early-mid January
I think I got off on text a couple of times on February
>how much do you think about sex
I get aroused very easily since I don't come much, I guess relatively often
But I don't see what theological point you're trying to make
How does my sin prevent His grace? I didn't know I was so powerful

[Anonymous No.23170227]

>>23170214
I'm not the OP and you keep talking to me as if I am bc you're on a narcissism trip you complete waste of time and space
>>23170218
Your lust is what causes these thoughts. It's autogynophilia. Abandon lust first.

[Anonymous No.23170228]

>>23170218
>How does my sin prevent His grace? I didn't know I was so powerful
Not one ounce of this post sounds genuine. Who do you think you're fooling? You don't communicate with a shred of humility in your body, and you're expecting God to give you answers? You just sound like a bitter, resentful, overly entitled unbeliever demanding someone else pay for your inability to sort your life out. Go on, insert more dripping snark and accusations for the mess you made of your life, see if that garners you sympathy and helps you to change.

Narcissist.

[Anonymous No.23170234]

>>23170228
>There's no hope and you're a failure
Sadistic weakling who knows nothing of God or His grace

[Anonymous No.23170246]

>>23170227
>how dare you call me a thing, I'm going to call you that thing!
Petty, hollow, completely lack of self awareness. I'm not the one trying to rewrite physical reality, anon. I'm not the one demanding everyone pay attention to me and coddle me and cry giant crocodile tears for how hard it is for me that I can't wear a dress or put my cock in a cage and show it to children without being laughed at. I'm not a hedonist trying to turn literally every single aspect of his life into being about sex and sexual identity and demanding that no other aspect of character matter in comparison. I'm not the one *treating the Literature board as my personal self help desk and begging for attention because of my ohh so difficult sex confusion, and then transferring my anger at God onto other anons*.

>>23170234
>There's no hope and you're a failure
Not what I said at all, but EXACTLY what a bitter, resentful, self-absorbed narcissist would deflect with to try and absolve himself of the need for humility.
>if I just type His Grace then I can get away with anything, right? I don't actually need to put any psychological effort into changing, I don't need to take responsibility for myself, I can just whine that God is a meanie who did this to me, cuz uhh I'm entitled to His Grace right?? gotcha
N a r c i s s i s t.

[Anonymous No.23170260]

>>23170228
I agree with you that I'm bitter, resentful and arrogant but I don't know what to do

[Anonymous No.23170476]

>>23168415
The liturgy of st john chrysostom

[Anonymous No.23170505]

>>23168415
Give into it but refuse to identify publicly or to yourself as anything other than a man. Either the aspects of it that are not true to your real self will become tiring and fade away, and you will just become one of those straight guys that wear nail polish, OR you will stay that way and become incredibly based, and use the contradiction and actual oppression you face from trans dogmatics to become a better person. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.23170525]

>>23170194
I'm not >>23170177 but literally just actually try committing to it and you will where the parts of your mind that keep bringing this up are mistaken. Literally just doing shit that you think of is the best way to get it out of the way. 99% of gender dysphoria is caused by too much internet use btw so I would suggest 1. Dress yourself up like a woman and with humility go somewhere where people know you 2. When this goes badly find a support group for internet addiction

[Anonymous No.23170673]

>>23168563
> refers to republicans like some universal
narrow-minded
> because the soul is the person
A person is their mind and body
> therapist
appeal to authority because too stupid to extrapolate upon your thoughts yourself
> promoting self-mutilation
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.23170741]

>>23168415
People with nothing to do will make up problems. People actually love living in their own hell. Why don't you get a job instead or go walk in nature? Why don't you spend some time talking with your estranged mother or father? This is the only chance you have at life and you're wasting it on tranny pathology.

[Anonymous No.23171354]

>>23170673
>kill yourself tranny
>republicans will just make your life miserable
Where was the lie?
>a person is their mind and body
Does the body determine the mind? Congratulations, you're an atheist and don't believe in Cartesian dualism.
>therapist
Do you really think listening to 4chan chuds telling OP to kill herself is the best possible thing for her mental health? Do you realize that literally every single anti-gay Republican is dicking ass in private? That's right, you're favorite Republican "based" politician is thrusting is massive throbbing dick in prime boy pussy and eating cum and fucking ass and sucking cock.
>self-mutilation
Is it self-mutilation to cure blindness or deafness? After all, God made them blind/deaf. Why would you ever change the body if humanity = biology at birth? Did Jesus mutilate people by making the blind see?

[Anonymous No.23171370]

>>23171354
Is it self mutilation for an anorexic to starve themselves? Is it self mutilation for someone with a fat fetish to eat so much they get diabetes? Is this person mutilated? You tell me.

[Anonymous No.23171407]

>>23171354
Having blindness or deafness is a defect and curing it only improves quality of life. Being born a functional male is not a defect that needs medical intervention.

[Anonymous No.23171417]

In all seriousness, though, I am very disappointed in how no sane book about helping people with gender dysphoria seems to exist. The political left feeds trannies lies that feel good and the political right offers no solution at all.

Wannabe authors, take note. You could have the monopoly on this type of literature.

[Anonymous No.23171559]

>>23171417
there's no money in helping them and a lot of money in feeding their delusions
they get offended when you try to help

[Anonymous No.23171725]

>>23168415
>>23168415
Rock Stars and artists have always adopted androgyny for the sake of artistic/personal exploration, and in the end they revert to their normal sex identity (Bowie is a Great example). That said, you'll find what you're looking for easier in music then you will in literature, but if you want some topics/books to look into here are my recommendations:
>The role of the Hermaphrodite in Alchemy.
>Historical examples of crossdressing and it's role in theatre and art.
>Carl Jung's Psychology and Alchemy, and the role of the Anima and the Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine.
Chemical/surgical castration/alteration is never the answer, but I'll be damned if some men don't look good in crop tops.
Experiment and find your own balance, don't let either the LGBT tards or the hardcore traditionalists keep you down.

[Anonymous No.23172051]

>>23171417
The right helps trans people all the time. Get out of your bubble. A perso. just has to realize "gender" is made up and that there are only two sexes.

[Anonymous No.23172188]

>>23168700
>Humans are bipedal
>"ACTUALLY SOME PEOPLE ARE BORN WITH ONLY ONE LEG, THEREFORE HUMANS ARE NOT BIPEDAL"
Genetic errors, birth defects, etc, do not define a rule.

[Anonymous No.23172266]

>>23168415
You dont need a book. You just need to change your gender fluid.

[Anonymous No.23172271]

>>23168471
Your mom is a linguistic problem too.
She has ESL.