Most who criticize Martin haven’t actually read asoiaf

[Anonymous No.23165505]

For those who haven’t read the books they have latched on to the memes about Martin criticizing tolkien. And those who have read them but still say he’s a moral nihilist strike me as part of this new juvenile reactionary right wing that will attack anything that paints historical Europe in anything of less than a utopian dream world. And where erything has to be where there are clear good guys and bad guys.
Martin clearly has a moral view that is objective. Ned stark was one. People criticize Martin for making his good character stupid and that they always lose, but they miss the point of the series. Martin made a world where being good does not necessarily lead to reward or success. It is a very harsh world where the bad guys can take advantage of good and noble characters, just like in the real world, unless you think the people who run the world are good and noble. Martins world is where to be good requires sacrifice. That there is conflict to be good or not. Becuase if it is a world where good always wins and you are always rewarded for being good, why would anyone be bad?
That is one thing that differentiates itself well from Tolkien’s world. In middle earth the good guys are backed up by the Valar and illuvatar. The Valar intervene to stop morgoth in the war of wrath to save the elves and men. And Illuvatar even intervenes. Why in middle earth would any rational person decide to join the side of melkor and Sauron when illuvatar is a known entity in the world? Middle earth is a world where it is known that good will be rewarded and evil will be punished. So an evil but rational person in middle earth will be good. Because if he cares about his own interest he will choose good because he wants to avoid punishment. Only an evil but stupid person in middl earth will be evil because he can’t see that him acting so will ultimately lead to punishment.

[Anonymous No.23165510]

In contrast, Martins world is one where an evil and smart person will choose to be evil. As there is no known punishment for being evil, and being evil can lead to rewards as such a person will be willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want. They will not self limit their actions to obtain their desires. And Euron Greyjoy is one such person who is evil and believes gods and morality are fake. He chooses to be evil because he sees nothing that will punish him and he sees that being evil is strategically smart to get what he wants. For him, being good would just limit his ability to get what he wants in life. Ironically it would be the natsoc nietzsche supporter who believes morality is an illusion and that all that matter is the will to power that would be most against Martins ideology of self sacrifice being good.

[Anonymous No.23165546]

>>23165505
didn't read but I will say

Fat pink masts jutting into myrish swamps until her cunt became the world while nuncle broke his fast on black bread, mulled wine, and bacon burned black while around him the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit and in the privy the princess cursed the Maiden as she shat but the more arbor gold she guzzled the more she shat until she was shitting brown water and nuncle smiled for did she not know words were wind and dark wings bring dark words and winter is coming an a lannister always pays her debts and this is nothing but a mummer's farce for she could be fucking moonboy for all he knows

[Anonymous No.23165554]

Not gonna read this shit if its never going to be finished

[Anonymous No.23165577]

I love ASOIAF but STOP WITH ALL THE FUCKING MARTIN'S THREADS
THERE WILL BE NO BOOK 6, IT'S OVER, FUCK OFF

Though maybe we get fire and blood 2, that's neat.

[Anonymous No.23165672]

>>23165577
checked?
go away with your gets
(5 and 7 are holly, maybe reflects how evil gurm is)
we are trying to manifest it
maybe if we wish strong enough, our will will influence his to pick up the pen
since the threads started this week, i ve been on a wild ride of asoiaf theory videos and edging to trannies while trying to nofap
i have to get back to finishing the gospel of john

[Anonymous No.23165691]

I don't think it's excatly hard to figure out the people whining about GRRM haven't actually read anything he made or listened to anything he said because without fail it's just some headcanon

[Anonymous No.23165774]

>>23165505
They're fun fantasy books which almost no one would care about if it hadn't been for HBO. Also, thinking "I've read the books" is a flex when it comes to genre fiction made popular by a tv series is fucking hilarious. Please keep doing it.

[Anonymous No.23165782]

>>23165672
It's been 12 years, 7 months and 27 days since ADOD was released. There's a chance TWOW will be released but you're dreaming if you think we'll ever see ADOS.

[Anonymous No.23165792]

>>23165774
>They're fun fantasy books which almost no one would care about if it hadn't been for HBO.
The average person wouldn’t but they were already influential before hbo. Dragon age origins was influenced by asoiaf which hadn’t been made into the show yet

[Anonymous No.23165796]

>>23165782
He could be working on them at the same time

[Anonymous No.23165840]

>>23165505
The problem is that Martin's world isn't impartial or random, it just prefers that villains win. It goes the way of Greek tragedy in that it wants to explore horrible outcomes and it is transparent in that preference. It's nihilistic because of how heavily slanted it is in favor of disappointment, as if that's the more logical thing to expect in the world. That's what makes it nihlistic.

That said, I like ASOIAF, but I think stories are better when they celebrate the qualities we appreciate in people. At least in fantasy.

Also, Ned Stark shouldn't have lost. It was a stupid outcome, he played the game just fine, it was just a shock that depends on a sense of the world being random and cruel (which it actually isn't most of the time, in truth)

[Anonymous No.23165888]

>>23165840
>which it actually isn't most of the time, in truth)
Are most of the people who win in politics now or the past good or evil more than liekly?

[Anonymous No.23165920]

>>23165840
I disagree about Ned. The juxtaposition between his death and his execution of the deserter at the start of the series is probably the most competently executed(lol) bit of dramatic irony and thematically complete character arc the GRRM has manged.

[Anonymous No.23166024]

>>23165796
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

[Anonymous No.23166060]

>>23165505
I don't need to read him. I'm high IQ. I analyzed him abstractly reasoning from the series, and every excerpt or objection given me as evidence by anyone who has read him confirms what is already evident about him from the show. He is a pitiful man.

[Anonymous No.23166224]

>>23165840
The villians lose too. Tywin ruined his own family and got shot, Viserys got executed via molten gold, the Freys are getting turned into pies, Craster got killed, etc.

[Anonymous No.23166241]

>>23165505
>>23165510
OP you should know that there's one autist who constantly makes Martin shitpost threads on /lit/ and /tv/.
That said, Martin is genuinely a writer with a far better portrayal of good and evil, politics, love, struggle etc than Tolkien. Tolkien coasts on the poetic qualities of the Germanic tradition without bringing to the fore its worldview. He lazily puts people either in the good or bad category and has basically zero characterisation in his books (with the exception of Hurin).
Martin not only deconstructs the hero, he reconstructs it. He shows what's deeper and realer than naivete, he shows struggle and growth, failure and success, he shows the necessity of skill and shrewdness, etc. and that's why a mere stagnant cultural conservatism like that of most tolkien fanboys will never appreciate Martin.

[Anonymous No.23166486]

>>23165505
it doesn't matter if good triumphs in the end or not, to me.
what I despise about Martin is his obsession with misery porn, sex, rape, violence and all what comes inbetween.
his writing is so crass, soulless, degenerated. It sits at the bottom with the dregs of human darkness, baseness and nihilism. if I could, I would ban these shitty books and have them burned in bonfires.

[Anonymous No.23166563]

>>23166486
You don't know what nihilism means.

[Anonymous No.23166634]

>>23165774
>Also, thinking "I've read the books" is a flex when it comes to genre fiction made popular by a tv series is fucking hilarious
It's not about flexing, is that you probably shouldn't dicuss books you haven't read on the literature board

[Anonymous No.23166676]

>>23165782
With the amount of character arcs that are going to finish in winds it wouldnt suprise me if it would take him much less time to finish ADOS.
I cant bear to think that this will probably be the last book with my king Stannis.

[Anonymous No.23166677]

>>23166224
WTF they did a summer islands meetup?

[Anonymous No.23167273]

>>23166634
Zoomers wouldn’t understand this concept as they don’t read. They’ll watch 10 minute YouTube videos where it explains the plot or ask chat gpt for a summary

[Anonymous No.23167479]

>>23166224
>Viserys got executed via molten gold
But he was the good guy

It really sucked for the show that they casted the best actors for characters that would die and the quality of acting went down hand in hand with the quality for the writing.

They lost Joffrey, Ned, Tywin, Viserys

[Anonymous No.23167711]

>>23165505
You're missing the point. At the end of the fifth book, after everything that's happened to the North, so many of the people are willing to fight and die to honor Ned's legacy, just because of how good of a man he was. Meanwhile, the prototypical "smart" character with no morality, Tywin, has been killed, and his life's work is crumbling to nothing due to the fact that people only sided with the Lannisters because they feared Tywin. Ned's influence hangs over the whole series and the fact that the final book that will never EVER be released, A Dream of Spring, is named after Ned's idea to repopulate parts of the upper north should have clued you into that.

[Anonymous No.23168089]

>>23167711
checked and this
being mischievous and backstabbing can be very helpful for a short or even a long time, but the more politically corrupt a society is the more likely it is that it will decline
rome fell because of corruption and the "ge*man" barbarians conquered them due to being more honorable, or maybe not honorable but more in tune with the laws of nature
>bu - but we had a contract, that you won t cross the danube
>not cross the danube? mein bruder what would you have done if you were cornered by the huns?
>reee, but muh golderinooos, i ll make sure that the history books will forever damn the goths
there is a reason why we teach children to be good
being evil for an extended period of time will must likely ruin a family(lose mandate of heaven)

[Anonymous No.23169404]

>>23167479
Tywin and Joffrey were in all the good seasons. Sean Bean was the star for all the promotional material so made sense he wouldn't last.

[Anonymous No.23169408]

>>23167711
Exactly, but the TV show got popular for being dark and gritty and that's all the retarded Martin haters are familiar with. Third-hand content.

[Anonymous No.23169433]

>>23167479
To be fair to them, character like sansa and arya were casted when very young so they couldn't predict their growth as actors properly
Emilia clarke was kinda bad but tyrion, littlefinger, varys, euron, cersei, jaime all tried to do the best they could with the absolutely dogshit material they were given
I especially pity Euron's actor which I remember read the books only to then be forced to play... whatever the fuck that character was.

[Anonymous No.23169453]

>>23166224
What a lucky man