/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.23158254]

無為 edition

>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>23128161

NOTE: replace ' dot ' with an actual dot to access the links below
>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>Mέγα τὸ ANE
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

Feel free to write your thoughts/stories/etc... in your target language.

>Work in progress FAQ
https://rentry dot co/n8nrko
You are very welcome to suggest additions/changes/etc... especially for other classical languages

[Anonymous No.23158424]

>>23157319
>>23158012
To be hurled into the triune gorge have I begun to yearn.
Wherefore should one wish to behold the twain capitals now?

[Anonymous No.23158752]

why is the accusative of neuter nouns always the same as the nominative in both Greek and Latin?
was it also the case in PIE?

[Anonymous No.23158764]

>>23157319
What's the context?

[Anonymous No.23158845]

>>23158424
The chinese really wrote like britbongs?

[Anonymous No.23158962]

>>23158764
Just Du Fu’s usual schtick about being disgraced and stuck out in the provinces.

[Anonymous No.23159168]

>>23158254
One day I'll finish my translation of the Yang Zhu chapter of the Liezi and post it somewhere. Roger Ames (pbuh) guide me.

[Anonymous No.23159307]

I think Old English should be added to the FAQ. For an English speaker, it's a very "easy" language to get to grips with, the vocabulary isn't too large, the grammar is fairly simple and there are a lot of good online resources or books covering it. Teach Yourself: Old English is a great textbook, and Old English Online is a great free online resource as well.

[Anonymous No.23159357]

>>23158845
No, the raw meaning is closer to:
(I) Start desire throw (into) three gorges
What reason see (again) two capitals?

[Anonymous No.23159472]

Does anyone have any experience with Vivarium Novum?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEGS8wi9Tj8
Also, how can I learn to bind books like that one kid at 7:47?

[Anonymous No.23159632]

>>23159472
They’re racist af. I went there as a black man and one wop called me “nigro” or some shit and asked what business I had learning Latin. I told the teacher and he said “essa justa how he talksa people hea meana no offenzione”. And ofc they don’t even speak Latin, just Italian with more archaic vocabulary which they seem to think is Latin. Imagine if we started throwing in thees and y- prefixes and said we were speaking in Old English.

[Anonymous No.23159655]

>tfw you reach the point where "studying" just means having fun reading a parallel latin/english edition and only checking the english for vocabulary help or when really stumped
>tfw this is 10x faster and more organic than using a reader or website, and 100x more fun than using a textbook

[Anonymous No.23159693]

孟子 is truly yapmaster supreme
if I have to ead another 不忍人之心 I will snap

[Anonymous No.23159730]

>>23158752
pretty sure it is, it's the same today even in Russian and IIRC Sanskrit is the same too

[Anonymous No.23159788]

>>23159307
>Teach Yourself: Old English
negro please
http://oe.langeslag.org/textbooks.php

[Anonymous No.23159794]

>>23159655
based
only good times from here on out

[Anonymous No.23159836]

>>23159307
I think we shouldn't overly stretch the definition of a classical language lest we stray from our original focus.

[Anonymous No.23159986]

>>23159307
>>23159632
I wonder if other "Old" languages have comedic connotations among their modem descendants, or if the English are just goofy bastards. Like Old French, or even (breaking my own criteria here) Latin to Italians, Chinese to Chinese, etc?

[Anonymous No.23159999]

>>23159836
I've had a lot of good conversations about Old English on this general going back to at least when Esperanto tranny was spamming the threads.
>>23159986
Is there comedic connotations with Old English? Or is it like "Ye olde Pub" sort of thing? I think it being a really different language to modern English sort of sets it apart. Old French and modern French have a much clearer connexion between them. Who the fuck knows what happened between Old English and Middle English for it to change so rapidly and dramatically across the entire land.

[Anonymous No.23160010]

>>23159999
checked, but wasted on this tripe
>Who the fuck knows what happened between Old English and Middle English for it to change so rapidly and dramatically across the entire land.
Norman invasion, the Bayeux tapestry will hold your hand all through it.

[Anonymous No.23160013]

>>23159632
>They’re racist af.
based

[Anonymous No.23160021]

>>23160010
>Who the fuck knows what happened between Old English and Middle English for it to change so rapidly and dramatically across the entire land
I do enjoy how you wrote this as if I literally had no idea the Normans invaded. Old English survived after the invasion, about a century or so more but was changing before the invasion. The rapid change into Middle English is interesting because we lost basically all the declensions, gender etc. which French did have.

[Anonymous No.23160022]

>>23159999
I meant middle english, my bad. Was actually going to pose this question hours ago and >>23159632 reminded me

also checked

[Anonymous No.23160068]

>>23160021
>we lost basically all the declensions, gender etc. which French did have.
it was creolised

[Anonymous No.23160279]

>>23159986
Classical Chinese is used very frequently in MC in the form of 成語. Think Molière's stuck up doctors and schoolmasters speaking half-Latin.
之乎者也 can be used to humorous effect, as can 閣下 and other archaic language.

[Anonymous No.23160339]

Vir calvus revera ridiculus est.

[Anonymous No.23160908]

>>23158764
Not that anon but sounds like a reflection on some calamity or devastation being encountered on the way to the capital cities.

The full text reads: 涼風動萬裏,群盜尚縱橫。家遠傳書日,秋來為客情。
愁窺高鳥過,老逐眾人行。始欲投三峽,何由見兩京。

Here's a Chinese link of it with some notes on it.

iccie(dot)tw/p/25332.html

[Anonymous No.23161352]

>>23159986
>Old French
Not really, but written French favoured V2 word order until the Middle French period. You can employ that to archaising effect.
Also, words that were standard in older stages of the language, including Old French, but were displaced by synonyms, can sometimes be used in a humourous way. I am notably thinking of vêpre (evening, soir in MF), and occire (to kill, tuer in MF).

[Anonymous No.23161504]

>>23160908
Read a little Du Fu and you'll love him as a poet.
Read a lot of Du Fu and you'll hate him as a poet and a person.
He is the exact opposite of Li Bai. That poet's work seems simple or even formulaic on the surface, but further examination, especially into his less-read oeuvre, can reveal new facets and new areas of mastery for a whole lifetime of reading. Du Fu meanwhile seems at first like a Chinese voicing of western cavalier tragic heroism, and in his better few poems he is. Read more and you'll discover the only solid foundation to be self pity.

[Anonymous No.23161554]

>>23161504
I like Du Fu a lot, no doubt due to my own personal failings and self-pity being similar to his. Mostly what I appreciate is how sensitive and reactive he is to momentary developments, that's what makes him so effective as the "poet-historian". I understand hating him as a poet given the extensive reuse of phrases and images but that too is kinda reflective of real experience.

[Anonymous No.23161575]

>>23158254
https://nihiladmirabilispress.blogspot.com/

[Anonymous No.23161718]

>>23159307
What is it like to learn Old English?
Are you able to read sentences fluently without thinking about grammar? How difficult is it to get to the point where you're essentially reading fluently but there are still lots of words that you don't know?

[Anonymous No.23161785]

>>23161718
NTA, but I'd imagine learning it would entail the same process and circumstances as any other language. The only way a language is learned is through immersion: the more time you spend reading, listening to, and speaking it, the better you'll be at it regardless of other factors out of your control. It's pointless to ask them about difficulty and fluency when they have a different brain than you. If you want to see what it's like to learn Old English, learn Old English.

[Anonymous No.23161801]

>>23161785
Ok well in my opinion I don't think what I described is possible
I think the people who are learning Old English are stuck permanently translating in their head everything they read
I don't think they ever get comfortable enough with Old English grammar to process it instantaneously
There simply isn't enough text to properly learn Old English

[Anonymous No.23161814]

>>23161801
I'm happy if the anon who is promoting the study of Old English ITT to prove me otherwise though

[Anonymous No.23161816]

>>23161718
You can try reading the Bible in it.

https://studybible.info/WestSaxon990/John%201

[Anonymous No.23161927]

>>23161554
Fair enough. My failings are not dissimilar to his either but coupled with severe self loathing that makes me like him less. Li Bai is altogether more skilled in more forms. His 古風 is so virtuoso it might as well be showing off. Real poet's poetry

[Anonymous No.23162107]

>>23161718
don't expect your english to help you any. It's going to be like learning norse

[Anonymous No.23162529]

>>23160010
There's also the profound Norse influence.

[Anonymous No.23162537]

>>23161718
I just treat it as an archaic variant of modern English and pronounce it as if it were modern English. Aside from having to look up unfamiliar words it's not too hard.

[Anonymous No.23162625]

>>23160021
I don't think French influence is to blame for the levelling of English case endings. I recall reading that contact with Old Norse might have been to blame, and while the written language might have gone on unchanged for the centuries leading to the Norman Conquest, it isn't unheard of for the written register of a language to retain declensions where the spoken form does not, e.g. French in the 13th/14th centuries, Dutch from the 16th century to the 20th, Late Latin from authors such as St. Augustine or Jerome as the vernacular was becoming increasingly analytic.
Common parlance ultimately always wins out; this is why we even have Romance languages. Granted, English is kind of a special case in that it lost all prestige when the Normans invaded then made a resurgence some centuries later, making it a lot harder to trace the evolution of the language in those times.

[Anonymous No.23162767]

I'm going to try to learn Old Norse

[Anonymous No.23162774]

>>23162767
>try
you can't "fail" learning a language

[Anonymous No.23162801]

>>23162767
You son of a bitch. I'm in.

[Anonymous No.23162829]

>>23162774
I consider myself to have failed if I do not make my way through at least a short saga like Hrafnkels saga using a dictionary
>>23162801
Good luck my bróðir

[Anonymous No.23163290]

>>23159307
I could add something to the FAQ, maybe be more specific about the books you have in mind if you have used them e.g Author, title, as well as links

[Anonymous No.23163513]

What's the best textbook to use alongside the italian athenaze? or is it best to use it alone?

[Anonymous No.23163562]

>>23163513
check out the Ranieri-Robert's method

[Anonymous No.23163914]

>>23163513
it's the most comprehensive greek textbook/reader there is i'd recommend using it alone.

[Anonymous No.23163939]

>>23163513
If and only if you have learned a heavily inflected language before, just read it on its own. Read and reread until you approach your desired reading speed with each chapter.
Otherwise, use it together with Mastronarde or an online grammar like AtticGreek.org

[Anonymous No.23163959]

>>23162537
>and pronounce it as if it were modern English
why do you d othsi?

[Anonymous No.23163972]

>>23163959
Because it's intuitive and makes it feel much less foreign? Why do the Chinese pronounce Classical Chinese as if it were modern Mandarin (or Cantonese, or Hokkien, or etc)?

[Anonymous No.23163991]

>>23163972
How do you read poetry, then? Post a vocaroo of you reading the first 10 lines of Beowulf.
https://ebeowulf.uky.edu/ebeo4.0/CD/main.html

[Anonymous No.23164032]

>>23163991
I've actually read the beginning of beowulf before, though my reading probably has a couple mistakes.
https://voca.ro/1gznAci6WZql

[Anonymous No.23164039]

>>23164032
It sounds horrible. I wish you the best.

[Anonymous No.23164045]

>>23164039
Why's it sound any worse than Classical Chinese pronounced in modern Mandarin readings?

[Anonymous No.23164050]

>>23164045
NTA but there is a living, unbroken tradition of voicing Classical Chinese with something close to whatever modern readings the speaker uses. There is no such thing for Old English. Using ME phonetics is jarring.

[Anonymous No.23164051]

>>23164045
I don't know. I can't say, because I don't know Classical Chinese or Mandarin. I just picked up Mandarin a couple days ago, though. I'm on lesson 6 of Assimil Chinese With Ease.

[Anonymous No.23164060]

>>23164050
Think of it as trying to restore what we would have if it weren't for the Norman Conquest.

[Anonymous No.23164100]

I read Beowulf with my Punjabi ESL accent and you can do nothing to stop me. IndianGODS will inherit the English language.

[Anonymous No.23164125]

>>23159693
You 爱不忍释 it.

[Anonymous No.23164385]

Maxime gaudeo quod finem ad Familiam Romanam et Fabulas Syrae (quae coniungitur) facturus sum; tam fessus est atque longa via fuit, sed tamen ibi mox erimus, amici.

[Anonymous No.23164389]

>>23164385
*quae coniunguntur et tam fessus sum

[Anonymous No.23164417]

>>23164045
>>23163972
Classical Chinese is a written language and was arguably never similar to the spoken language
also it was always pronounced according to the rime dictionaries of the time
apples and oranges

[Anonymous No.23164428]

>>23164417
If it was never similar to the spoken language of the time then where do its vocabulary and grammar come from? Are you suggesting it's a conlang? And the phonetic components in characters must be based on some pronunciation.

[Anonymous No.23164491]

>>23164032
You should rather try transposing a Scandinavian or German phonology on the articulation of vowels.

[Anonymous No.23164535]

>>23164491
How would that help?

[Anonymous No.23164550]

>>23164535
Trying it sounds much more harmonious and melodic than with a general American phonology.

[Anonymous No.23164557]

>>23164550
I pronounce it as I would pronounce any other text in my mother tongue, because that's what I regard it as- a highly archaic form of my mother tongue.

[Anonymous No.23164588]

>>23164557
Sounds like you even replaced as many words as you could with their modern cognates. But regardless the pronounciation of your personal native variety of a diversified language is not of relevance to how its ancestral forms should mean to be pronounced.

[Anonymous No.23164637]

>>23164557
is old german an archaic form of english? because old english is closer to that than english

[Anonymous No.23164640]

Is a reduced vocabulary a benefit of classical languages

[Anonymous No.23164676]

>>23164588
It's not a matter of replacement, it's just pronouncing the words as they're pronounced today. They're the same words, despite the different orthographic clothing placed on them.
>>23164637
English has evolved significantly since then, but modern English is still the lineal descendant of Old English; you can trace an unbroken chain of mother-tongue transmission from today's English back to the language that Beowulf was written in.

[Anonymous No.23164681]

>>23164640
it's the opposite.

[Anonymous No.23164692]

>>23164676
>They're the same words, despite the different orthographic clothing placed on them
NTA but by that logic you might as well put the text through google translate because all that changed is the ..clothing.
>lineal descendant of Old English
Let me go tell Indians how to pronounce their language really quick because I speak multiple Indo-European languages.

[Anonymous No.23164697]

>>23164640
No. While there may be strictly fewer lemmata than for a living language, in practice classical languages require more. This is because reading high level texts, which is all there is to do with classical languages, requires more vocabulary than everyday conversation, new media, or reading low level texts.

[Anonymous No.23164710]

>>23164676
It's not how everyone nor the varieties that would be most relevant to the matter would pronounce it.

[Anonymous No.23164719]

>>23164692
>NTA but by that logic you might as well put the text through google translate because all that changed is the ..clothing.
But that's a different language. All this is is a different phonetic realization of what's clearly the same text.
>Let me go tell Indians how to pronounce their language really quick because I speak multiple Indo-European languages.
What's that have to do with it? Hindustani is not descended from French.
>>23164710
What do you mean, the varieties that would be most relevant to the matter?

[Anonymous No.23164736]

>>23164719
>What do you mean, the varieties that would be most relevant to the matter?
Varieties with a closer phonology to what has been collectively estimated by research as most plausible for the reconstruction of its phonology.

[Anonymous No.23164749]

>>23164736
What, like West Country or Scottish?

[Anonymous No.23164763]

>>23164719
South Asian, African, and Carribean accents might ironically be more suitable for the pronounciation of historical forms of English than yours, but with Socttish and Northern English accents probably being the most so.

[Anonymous No.23164772]

>>23164763
So maybe it'll rhyme a little worse. Like I said, I don't hear you complaining about people pronouncing Classical Chinese in Mandarin.

[Anonymous No.23164792]

>>23164772
Maybe you've been living under a rock. But the challenges of determining what the historical phonologies of Chinese were is an even greater challenge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den

[Anonymous No.23164821]

>>23164792
Uhh... not really? Middle Chinese we pretty much have the phonology of laid out in rime books, though the exact phonetic realizations have to be reconstructed. Old Chinese is admittedly trickier, though we know a good bit about it.

[Anonymous No.23164850]

>>23164821
So there is a challenge then. But from what I've seen myself there are significant differences in how different reconstructions are made and nuanced which makes it impossible to make any tangible attempt to render it in speech, especially considering the debates there may be over tonal qualities which is a most critical factor in such languages compared to Old English and other languages which aren't tonal.

[Anonymous No.23164862]

>>23164850
Eh, they basically seem like the same language in different accents, especially once you remove some of the more out-there reconstructions.

[Anonymous No.23164879]

>>23164385
quid autem leges post FR?

[Anonymous No.23164894]

>>23164032
I want to have sex with you now. I can imagine your brown hair tickling my scrotum, your juicy fat white pussy in my face, your hard nips pressing against my abdomen as we passionately 69 on your husband's bed. God I'm hard just thinking about it.

[Anonymous No.23164898]

>>23164894
You have several things wrong, including the color of my hair and whether I am married.

[Anonymous No.23164930]

>>23164898
t. skinny 2gen Asian

[Anonymous No.23164934]

>>23164930
Now where on earth are you getting that from? (Well, the skinny part is right.)

[Anonymous No.23164948]

>>23164934
Your professed knowledge on Asian linguistics for one but with the claim of English being your native language.

[Anonymous No.23164959]

>>23164948
What, so only Asians can learn Asian languages? Nah, I just got into Japanese because I'm a weeb, then Classical Chinese initially via kanbun.

[Anonymous No.23164966]

>>23164959
It could have still served as a significant indicator for double gen(ned)ness though.

[Anonymous No.23164976]

>>23164966
Isn't the typical pattern for second-generation immigrants understanding their parents' language but barely being able to speak it themselves beyond the basics? That's how it is for most of the second-generation immigrants I know. (Actually I guess I technically am a second-generation immigrant, but there's no language issue, because my mum's from Australia. Provided you count what they speak there as English.)

[Anonymous No.23164978]

>>23164976
Beowulf recitation in Australian English pronunciation when

[Anonymous No.23164983]

>>23164978
The rule still applies to dialects- I understand my grandparents fine, but I can't talk like them. (Actually, my mum doesn't sound all that Australian either, since her family came here when she was a kid.)

[Anonymous No.23164992]

>>23164983
I'll settle for Anon's >>23164100 version then.

[Anonymous No.23165000]

>>23164976
A AAMAAF relationship could be possible.

[Anonymous No.23165001]

>>23164976
Maybe in America because you guys are great at assimilating people. All the Russians, Arabs, Africans here are fluent in the second generation and then suddenly turn European-of-background in the third gen

[Anonymous No.23165163]

>>23164879
Audivi de aliis libris aut "supplementis" qui revera ante Romam Aeternam legendi sunt, ergo fortasse primum legam eos: Epitomem Historiae Sacre, Commentarios de Bello Gallico, etc.

[Anonymous No.23165184]

>>23164948
I think Jewish and WASP professors of Asian linguistics outnumber Asian ones.

[Anonymous No.23165221]

>>23164930
Actual skinny 2gen asian here. Skinny 2gen asians are for the most part very unattractive, physically and spiritually.

[Anonymous No.23165233]

>>23165221
Oh I bet you're more attractive than you think.

[Anonymous No.23165241]

>>23165221
Opto te spiritum tuum fortasse mutare possis

[Anonymous No.23165243]

>>23164898
what colour is your hair?

[Anonymous No.23165247]

>>23165243
Sort of dirty blonde, but why do you care?

[Anonymous No.23165352]

>>23165233
I myself am attractive enough to have had a very ugly, unhealthy sex addiction in several places around the world. Most 2gen asians are however sweaty pillow princesses.

[Anonymous No.23165428]

>>23165247
just so that I can imagine you more accurately as I stroke. How tall are you, and how much do you weigh?

[Anonymous No.23165431]

So many ancient languages I'd love to learn. But so little time

[Anonymous No.23165456]

>>23165431
In such cases one should then rank their priorities. Which languages culture and literature appeals more and why? Can the interest in it be satisfied by available translated material? How popular is the subject in one's community and how much oppurtunity is there for expanding knowledge and awareness on it which one could be willing to also contribute to?

[Anonymous No.23165696]

there's actually niggas in here who would rather learn the Bushumba language, which has only 3 inscriptions and was spoken in the Wabushinka kingdom in East Africa 600-800 AD than learn Latin because it's "too normie" or some shit

[Anonymous No.23165811]

>>23165696
It's not the turn of the 20th century anymore. More subjects in academia are open than ever and people can study what they want and largely in what order they want and that's a good thing, even if the system is horrible in other ways. Besides, if they really are uncommitted hipsters, they'll give up soon anyway, so what's it to you?

[Anonymous No.23165813]

>>23165431
wait until you find out about assimil

[Anonymous No.23166220]

>>23164676
you can trace an an unbroken chain from english back to PIE. It doesn't mean shit.

[Anonymous No.23166267]

>>23165352
You're not the one who took a bad photo of yourself with your front facing camera because you have a dumb phone, are you?

[Anonymous No.23166281]

>>23166267
No anon clearly there are many different Classical Chinese-speaking, pathologically attention-seeking females in this general. Couldn't possibly be the same one.

[Anonymous No.23166286]

>>23159999
>Who the fuck knows what happened between Old English and Middle English for it to change so rapidly and dramatically across the entire land.
...it's not difficult to understand. What? English leveled in very expected ways. And no, "foreign invaders", like Vikings or Normans, had nothing to do with it.

[Anonymous No.23166289]

What's the gap between Old English and Old Icelandic

[Anonymous No.23166301]

>>23166289
how do you even answer a question like this?
what's the gap between French and Korean?
idk nigga

[Anonymous No.23166302]

>>23166301
Yeah I was going to clarify my question after I posted it because I realised it was vague but I thought it'd be pedantic and didn't
By gap I mean if you learnt one, what would be the general language learner's experience of learning to read the other

[Anonymous No.23166314]

>>23166302
>what would be the general language learner's experience
highly subjective, obviously

[Anonymous No.23166387]

>>23166267
Link? Sounds amusing.

[Anonymous No.23166593]

>>23166281
>female
You are a man. Just a troon.
And once again you have derailed the thread and made it all about yourself

[Anonymous No.23166663]

>>23166281
>females
*人妖

[Anonymous No.23166682]

>>23166289
isn't old icelandic just old norse? so not much? it was somewhat mutually intelligible to some degree iirc

[Anonymous No.23167136]

>>23166314
anon figured they'd be pedantic and held back, but you sure didn't. faggot.

[Anonymous No.23167556]

Πλάτων ποτέ περιπατῶν ἐτύγχανε τινι ἑταιρῷ αὐτου ὠνούμενῷ καί ἠρώτε τι πράττει. ὁ δἐ εἶπεν "δίδωμι δίκας" Πλάτων δἐ, "τίνος ποτέ;" "γάμου"

[Anonymous No.23167707]

>>23167556
Ignosce mihi, sed quid modo dixisti?

[Anonymous No.23167817]

>>23167707
Plato was once walking around and ran into a friend who was shopping, and Plato asked him what he was doing. The friend responded "I'm paying the toll", and Plato asked "The toll for what?", and the friend said "Marriage"

[Anonymous No.23167826]

(I was trying to write a corny joke that sounded like it could have actually come from an ancient author)

[Anonymous No.23167898]

For people who are good at latin, how would you describe the difficulty and style of various latin authors?
Julius Caeser
Bede
Catullus
Cicero
Cornelius Nepos
Ennius
Erasmus
Horace
Juvenal
Livy
Lucretius
Martial
Ovid
Pliny
Sallust
Seneca
Tacitus
Suetonius
Virgil
Latin Bible
St Augustine
St Jerome

So far I've heard that Caeser and Livy are pretty easy while Tacitus is nigh impenetrable to a beginner

[Anonymous No.23167936]

>>23167898
>EASY TIER
Latin Bible (easiest)
St. Jerome
St. Augustine
Bede
Julius Caesar
Livy

MEDIUM TIER
Sallust
Pliny
Martial
Lucretius
Juvenal
Horace
Cornelius Nepos
Ennius
Catullus
Horace
Suetonius

>HARD TIER (good luck)
Horace
Virgil
Ovid

>IMPOSSIBLE TIER (don't even try)
Cicero

[Anonymous No.23168064]

>>23167936
>Cicero harder than the poets
??? what?

[Anonymous No.23168129]

>>23167936
I thought Livy was hard

[Anonymous No.23168139]

>>23167936
>Livy easier than Nepos

[Anonymous No.23168312]

>>23165428
Since you demanded it... fine, I'm about 178cm and 65kg.
>>23166267
No, that was me.
>>23166593
>>23166663
You are obsessed.

[Anonymous No.23168342]

Are there any infamously difficult sentences or chapters in Classical literature?
I mean a chapter which guys from the renaissance have all complained about
You're reading Cicero and then suddenly a chapter starts which causes you to feel like you don't know any Latin anymore

[Anonymous No.23168691]

>>23158254
the traditional world is dead..
There is no mystery anymore. modern linguistics, philosophy, and globalization, killed the orientalist and classicist. there's nowhere left to explore. modern classicists are all gay and reduce the text to the tangible apparatus.

guenon realized this but he decided that the only option was to shift from the horizontal plane to the vertical. but you need both. where can we find the horizontal plane of existence when we are stuck under this civilizational chaos caused by globalist psyops by satanist cabals.

the catholics arent addressing the issue. how many adler fanboys are sitting in their library, showing off their complete collection of Early Church Fathers and Gibbon, their giddy faces touching loebs... just to do nothing with them? who is going to recover the west?

[Anonymous No.23168718]

>>23168342
can't remember the name but there's that ancient Latin writer who wrote in a deliberately abstruse style and thus I think there's still somewhat obscure passages or at least whose translation isn't wholly certain

[Anonymous No.23168752]

It seems that the tradition for old norse and old english textbooks is to present a very slim grammar and then making you dive asap into the texts
Is this because they’re easier to learn than Latin or is it just a historical tradition?

[Anonymous No.23168872]

>>23168691
>who is going to recover the west?
You, me, people with conviction and energy.

[Anonymous No.23169169]

>>23166267
No, I am a man. I was butting in to vent my disgust for skinny 2gen Asian Americans, a group with which I find little affinity despite belonging to it.

>>23168342
Thucydides in general?

[Anonymous No.23169173]

>>23168691
Just accept that you live in dull times and find honest work somewhere. This feeling of grandeur too will fade over time.

[Anonymous No.23169374]

>>23168342
Pericles' funeral oration

[Anonymous No.23169388]

>>23169374
Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for

[Anonymous No.23169960]

>>23168064
Cicero is a poet. His poetry sucks by most accounts, but he nonetheless wrote poetry. Cicero can be considered to be harder than a lot of poets because his prose is so complicated.
https://www.amazon.com/Poems-Cicero-Classic-Commentaries/dp/1853995290

[Anonymous No.23170219]

>>23167936
You forgot Tacitus in easy tier

[Anonymous No.23170283]

>>23169960
cicero's prose is NOT more complicated than ovid or virgil, get real

[Anonymous No.23170286]

I was told that his speeches were much easier than his essays, is that true?

[Anonymous No.23170408]

>>23159632
who said that to you tho

[Anonymous No.23170573]

Has anyone here got a source for Sanskrit pdfs akin to the mega for Latin & Greek in the OP?
As I understand it, Clay Sanskrit Library is the equivalent of Loeb for those. I can only find a sporadic couple of books of e.g. the Ramayana on Anna's Archive, just as was the case for Greek until I stumbled onto this thread. Any help would be appreciated. I am not money-capable.

[Anonymous No.23170987]

>>23170573
I can't stand romanized Sanskrit. I wish there was a good bilingual English library with any indic script. Doesn't even have to be Devanagari. Latin is just insufficient for Sanskrit phonetics.
On that note, does anyone know a good bilingual Rgveda and Bhagavad Gita?

[Anonymous No.23171030]

>>23170987
I'm fine with romanized Sanskrit insofar as legibility and such is concerned, as I am quite used to it from Pāli, however I would take issue with it because I wouldn't be exercising my Devanāgarī doing so and I could easily end up getting used to the romanization.
On the other hand, simply getting a bilingual edition, or, at this point, any Sanskrit edition whatsoever, would very much outweigh any concerns of that kind I may have.
Come on, there has to be a hidden mega out there somewhere, right? You can't be telling me no one has ever gone through the trouble of scanning their university's Ramayana and uploading it?

[Anonymous No.23171176]

Latin question:
How should I phrase an indirect "could be" statement?
For instance, if I want to say "I think that that sound could be heard in Greece".
I know there's a way to do this, but for the life of me I cannot remember how.

[Anonymous No.23171342]

>>23171030
>>23170987
I found a really lightweight bilingual (9mb maybe only the first two books? It's like 2k pages) edition of the Ramayana being shilled to death by jeets on reddit. It's by Gita Press. Maybe they've got the Gīta (very likely lmao) as well. I think the Rgveda may be a little tricky on that end, though, since modern Hindus aren't as enthusiastic about that. I'll be looking into that at some point in the future, most likely.

[Anonymous No.23171362]

does anyone have an opinion on susan shelmerdines introduction to latin? its what my latin class is using. the exercise book to go along w it sucks (answer keys wrong) but i dont know enough latin to have an opinion about the main textbook.

[Anonymous No.23171506]

>>23171176
Posse

[Anonymous No.23171741]

>>23171176
>"I think that that sound could be heard in Greece"
Puto hoc audiri Graece posse.
That's my best guess. "Hoc" is just a neutral accusative pronoun; "audiri" is the passive infinitive for audio/audire; Graece is in the ablative; posse is just the infinitive for "possum."

[Anonymous No.23171759]

>>23171741
Ah, but you said sound.
>Credo illunc sonum audiri Graece posse.

[Anonymous No.23171812]

>>23171176
God damn it, but you also said "in Greece," requiring the locative.
>Credo illunc sonum audiri Graeciae posse.

[Anonymous No.23171859]

What happened to the general language thread for modern languages

[Anonymous No.23171879]

>>23171859
jannies would move them to the does this happen in your cunt board

[Anonymous No.23171892]

Which Hapax legomenon do you strongly remember?

[Anonymous No.23171959]

>>23171506
>>23171741
>>23171812
Thanks. I thought it might have been posse, but It looked wrong when I typed it out. I guess I was just overthinking it.

[Anonymous No.23172018]

>>23171892
髐然 xiao1 ran2
it means "to have the appearance of bleached bones"
I remember it as it's the first one I encountered

[Anonymous No.23172194]

Can we bring back Claudian letters for Latin?

[Anonymous No.23172207]

>>23172194
Wut r those

[Anonymous No.23172219]

>>23172207
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudian_letters
Claudius tried to introduce new letter for Latin but they never caught on.
an example:
>VENI, VEDI, VICI
would be
>ℲENI, ℲEDI, ℲICI

[Anonymous No.23172252]

>>23172194
For what pvrpose

[Anonymous No.23172264]

>>23172252
It seems that's what most Romans asked as well

[Anonymous No.23172573]

>>23172219
It's just an upside-down F.

[Anonymous No.23172627]

>>23172573
its not the only one, there was also Ↄ
another example using these:
>Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur.
would be rendered:
>Gallia est omnis diⅎisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui iↄorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur.
The Ⅎ was to represent the consonantal "V", though this was before "U" so it is rather redundant now.
The Ↄ was to represent the "bs" and "ps" sounds with a single letter, ipsorum -> iↄorum

[Anonymous No.23172642]

>>23172627
Is that Caesar? Quite a good writer.

[Anonymous No.23172817]

>>23171342
I find it amazing how much Hindus like to deny their kinship with the languages of Europe.

[Anonymous No.23172866]

>>23172817
They make denying the Aryan invasion theory a matter of pride, and the fact online white supremacists are using it to disparage them just rubs salt into the wound.

[Anonymous No.23172875]

>>23172627
>The Ⅎ was to represent the consonantal "V",
It's a flipped digamma
No one is going to use it

[Anonymous No.23172935]

>>23172875
but more digamma = more good.

[Anonymous No.23172942]

>>23170987
>Latin is just insufficient for Sanskrit phonetics.
What phonemic distinction does IAST lack?

[Anonymous No.23172960]

>>23172018
Is it possible it's just a semantic variant of a more common term with a more general sense?

[Anonymous No.23173108]

>>23172942
None. It is technically sufficient in the same way Devanagari or Katakana with enough diacritics might be technically sufficient for Arabic. The issue with printing books in such a system is that they wear over time, and sounds that would be written as स श and ष become indistinguishable due to being written as s with tiny diacritics.

[Anonymous No.23173114]

>>23173108
Hmm, I see. Doesn't that apply to a lot of languages that use diacritics?

[Anonymous No.23173127]

How do I learn declension/conjugation and how do I use anki for this?
I'm thinking that I should put the dictionary forms into anki and not include the whole tables
Does writing out the paradigms help?

[Anonymous No.23173144]

>>23173127
The most important thing is exposure to how they're used in context, though repeating paradigms can help. It depends on what works on you, try experimenting a bit.

[Anonymous No.23173160]

>>23173127
Also something I did when learning French was to have various cards dedicated to a verb conjugated in imperfect subjunctive, subjunctive, past historic and imperfect in my deck
I guess the problem here is that I was using these cards only to learn to recognise the endings but with the paradigms of Latin I might need to create a lot more
>>23173144
Yeah ok
Do you think translation exercises can help or is it better to focus on exposure?

[Anonymous No.23173167]

>>23173160
do both

[Anonymous No.23173176]

>>23173167
Cool
I'm thinking about getting the Loeb Caesar edition and translating the English into Latin and then checking to see how close it is to the original

[Anonymous No.23173178]

>>23173160
The main thing is exposure. If you've understood what the text means, that's the important thing; translating it is mostly useful for checking your comprehension.
>>23173176
I've heard about some cases in the old days where people would translate a passage into their native language themselves, wait a while until they'd forgotten the exact wording of the original, and try to translate it back to Latin.

[Anonymous No.23173183]

>>23173127
for anki, on the front use english or whatever your native lang is and then use the type in answer for the back, example "he tortures" -> excruciat, "let him torture" -> excruciet, "he tortured" -> excruciavit. making the extra effort is worth.
also recommend making audio exercises, via vocaroo or anything else, out of these as well. practice daily otherwise why go to the gym if you only go once a month.

[Anonymous No.23173190]

Why is Latin important

[Anonymous No.23173209]

>>23173190
For you it isn't
Leave this thread, it serves no purpose for you and will only waste your time

[Anonymous No.23173212]

>>23173209
I just think you should have an answer.

[Anonymous No.23173224]

>>23173212
I have an answer for me
There isn't one for you or you wouldn't have asked that question in the first place
Just leave, this general is shitty enough already

[Anonymous No.23173229]

>>23159472
>16-25
I want to die. If I had only fucking known this existed.

[Anonymous No.23173237]

>>23173224
I meant no hostility. Its just a question. What's you're answer.

[Anonymous No.23173238]

>>23173190
Because there are a lot of good texts in it, not all of which are translated (and also a translation is never really the same as reading the original, especially for poetry).

[Anonymous No.23173242]

>>23173237
>What's you're answer
My answer is study English

[Anonymous No.23173246]

>>23173238
Why are old Latin texts important?

[Anonymous No.23173278]

>>23173246
Because some of them are really good and also historically influential.

[Anonymous No.23173316]

>>23173108
I kinda want to own a press and just print new editions of things. Unfortunately we live in the real world.

[Anonymous No.23173387]

>>23173246
You're babbling like a child
>why
>why
>why
ad infinitum. What's your next question, 'why are they good and influential?'

[Anonymous No.23173406]

>>23173316
Can't you get things printed overseas for pretty cheap?

[Anonymous No.23173426]

>>23173406
Not at a level of quality and with any classical language you need quality checks
Look on abebooks at all the print-on-demand crap coming out of India. Yeah, it's cheap, but everything from the binding to the text is crap. You'll end up with a copy of a scan of a pdf printed off center and misaligned on every page. No refunds either, saar won't allow it.

[Anonymous No.23173437]

>>23173426
I'll admit I am still tempted to do an edition of some works I can only get online and just print it even if the print from my pdf is low quality. I'll have to type it out though.

[Anonymous No.23173441]

I cannot read physical books
It just takes too long

[Anonymous No.23173454]

>>23173441
most classical texts are pretty short by the standards of modern books.

[Anonymous No.23173461]

>>23173316
Caan I serve under you?

[Anonymous No.23173468]

Why isnt there any latin literature that predates the Greeks? Sad! There isnt even literature predating Greek influence. SAD!

[Anonymous No.23173505]

>>23173437
Spend an extra shekel or two, no matter how much it pains you to do so. You will be far happier in the long run. Look into local universities as well, some of them have print shops.

[Anonymous No.23173566]

>>23173454
I have done 30 pages but it was too much for me

[Anonymous No.23173616]

>>23159357
Fucking yikes.

[Anonymous No.23173621]

>>23173616
yep. chinese poetry is better in translation. much, much better.

[Anonymous No.23173630]

>>23173621
Only if you're unwilling to take Chinese poetic conventions on their own terms. I've been moved near to tears by some poems.

[Anonymous No.23173749]

>>23173621
It's because you don't know Chinese that you don't have a feel for the language.

[Anonymous No.23173851]

>>23173621
Classical Chinese is full of intentional ambiguity and often makes the reader figure out meanings for themselves. Authors COULD write out full grammatical marking and shit for every sentence, but do you really need to with a clever reader? Usually it's dropped
Also there's a big emphasis on rhythm and everything having parallel lengths and shit
Anyway, the meaning is evident if you know the context, and classical Chinese prizes itself on rhythm and brevity rather than long flowery language

[Anonymous No.23173855]

>>23173468
Well, the Latin alphabet is an adaptation of the Greek alphabet, so I think it would be quite hard to have anything Latin predating the Greeks

[Anonymous No.23173860]

>>23172960
No, not really

[Anonymous No.23174151]

>>23173114
I'm not aware of many that use the especially smudge-prone underdot, or do so on so many different letters.

[Anonymous No.23174287]

>>23173108
>>23174151
vietnamese uses FAR more diacritics than IAST, including multiple diacritics stacked onto one letter, and the "smudge-prone underdot"

[Anonymous No.23174946]

Has anyone here used Assimil’s Latin course? It’s in French, but it seems to be a really good, better than LLPSI.

[Anonymous No.23175249]

>>23174946
Different medium and simply not comparable. However, it is very good.

[Anonymous No.23175375]

>>23172817
Yeah it's crazy, you run into it everywhere. While hunting for sources I came across some guy innocently asking about the most up-to-date etymological dictionary for Sanskrit and got into a long back and forth with some Hindu who was clearly denying the IE connection altogether, although I don't think the OP noticed. It's just like the Greeks getting autistic about phonetics.

[Anonymous No.23175442]

Why study classical languages? Why not spend your time reading a living language, or even better, your main language.?

[Anonymous No.23175450]

>>23175442
Good question. Few here can answer. It isn't something one gets into for rational reasons.

[Anonymous No.23175488]

>>23175450
To me only my native languages have the power to move me. I learned German fluently and it does nothing for me

[Anonymous No.23175518]

>>23175442
Gain a deeper understanding of your native language by staking out the deviations and origins. Particularly fertile for IE languages of course. The patchwork of overlapping influences is great.

>>23175488
I learned English fluently and it does more for me than German, so that may just be the configuration.

[Anonymous No.23175532]

>>23175442
It's fun. Like solving a puzzle.

[Anonymous No.23175825]

[Anonymous No.23175861]

It begins
Any tips? I have read this extract 5 times and the notes 3 times and I can already remember some words

[Anonymous No.23175863]

>>23175442
I'm an English native speaker and can read anything with ease (including le hard books I.e. infinite jest and gravity's rainbow, which I read both of. Anna Karenina I could read but was too bored to finish), I don't need to practice reading.
I equally don't need to practice writing in English

I'm already studying a living language (Chinese) and knowledge of the corresponding classical language (classical Chinese) is very pertinent to reading and writing modern Chinese as well as understanding poetry, Chinese history, etc...

So it's all useful to me

[Anonymous No.23175907]

Does anyone have any good tips for greek vocab?

I don't have a greek keyboard so I use an english-greek keyboard converter website that turns a > α and b > β, etc. and I have to go through extra effort to add any accents
And then I take that word and put it into a greek-english online dictionary and it finds the word maybe 50% of the time.
It takes atleast 30 seconds -1 minute to find out what a single word means.
Alternatively I have a physical greek-english dictionary but this also takes a long time to browse because I can never get used to the order of the greek alphabet. And it isn't very large so it doesn't always have the word I'm looking for.

It's just generally very slow

[Anonymous No.23175925]

>>23175907
how competent are you with computers? for a keyboard, use https://keyman.com/keyboards/greekclassical
for dictionaries, use GoldenDict and add the Verkerk morphologia and the Lidell dictionary to it from https://latin-dict.github.io/list_greek.html
with this set up you can look up any word with a simple hotkey

[Anonymous No.23175932]

>>23175907
This is why it's not feasible to read physical books
You're wasting so much fucking time anon and risking burnout
I know this isn't an ideal solution but I'm too lazy and it's good enough for me
Download the program calibre and use its e-book viewer
You can set the program up so you have the text on the left hand side and a browser window open on the right hand side
When you want to search up a word all you need to do is click on the word or you can drag and select multiple characters
It'll search up the word you select on the internet so you can have the wiktionary entry for that word pop up
You can then copy and paste the word into anki if you're using it

[Anonymous No.23175952]

>>23175907
yeah set up your keyboard somehow, on linux it's easy with setxkbmap, the other anon suggested something for windows
there are online dictionaries that accept translitterated input, LSJ does this albeit being able to type in greek is optimal especially for using very useful tools like logeion/morpho

[Anonymous No.23175971]

>>23175488
As a lover of poetry I do not relate at all. In fact, though I live mostly in English and French these days, those traditions cannot hope to move me like the Chinese, Greek, and Provençal.

[Anonymous No.23175998]

>>23175907
Perseus does all that for you and they have all the major Greek texts.

[Anonymous No.23176368]

you know what I'm going to just type out the metabole and format it. If anyone has any obscure (and on the shorter side) Greek/Latin works with really crummy pdfs and would like them typed up, link to them and I might do it.

[Anonymous No.23176374]

>>23175442
>whynigger is back
Why do anything?

[Anonymous No.23176377]

>>23175932
>This is why it's not feasible to read physical books
kek
fucking loser

[Anonymous No.23176382]

>>23175907
This is how people learned languages in the past.
Physical book, in greek, no translation.
Physical dictionary, greek-english.
You just go one word at a time. Takes notes if you have to.

[Anonymous No.23176387]

>>23175907
>I can never get used to the order of the greek alphabet
How dumb are you? How do you expect to learn Greek if you can't be bothered to learn the alphabet?

[Anonymous No.23176397]

>>23176387
With a regular english dictionary I can instantly flick to the page I need because I'm intimately familiar with how many words start with every letter and even combinations of letters.
But with greek it's not like that, say I have the word περιχονδριάω.
I can find π pretty quickly I know it's roughly halfway through the greek alphabet, but then I have to remember where ε is for the next letter. I find out that there's alot of greek words beginning with περι so that section of the dictionary goes on for a long time before I'm able to get to ι, and then χ and so on, it takes alot of going backwards and forwards to find a word because I'm not intimately familiar with the order of the greek alphabet

[Anonymous No.23176406]

>>23176397
Don't bother with physical dictionaries
They're a waste of time compared to what we have now

[Anonymous No.23176413]

>>23176397
I mean just repeat it a number of times, write it down a lot, it's not that hard: it also largely follows the order of the english alphabet aka Latin alphabet, there's only a few letters that can confuse you at first like the triple zeta, eta, theta after epsilon, the xi cheekily after nu, and then the quartet phi, chi, psi, omega is all at the end

[Anonymous No.23176419]

>>23176397
>greek alphabet is hard
>so I give up
zoom zoom
>>23176406
>don't use physical dictionaries
>glued to screen 24/7
zoom zoom

[Anonymous No.23176427]

>>23176419
The way I like to think of it is that reading physical books is the goal, it's the experience that everyone is working towards but until you get there, you're going to need to have your training wheels on
There's no shame in it but it won't last forever
At a certain point your vocabulary will be sufficiently large such that the dictionary look up time won't be so taxing

[Anonymous No.23177067]

Amici: eram pravissimus cum locutus sim et dixerim Ciceronem difficilius legere quam Vergilium. Aeneis is fucking my shit up and making me want to give up Latin for good. I'd take French any day over this.

[Anonymous No.23177401]

>>23175907
This reminds me of a girl I know who studies French, she has so for many years and is quite fluent
However, when she types French, she uses this programme to let her do the accents and you have to click this little bar on the screen to input them which made her typing about 3 times slower

[Anonymous No.23177516]

Whenever I have to type something with funny characters, I just use my phone. The extra keyboards are easy to get and use.
>NOOOO YOU HAVE TO MAKE THINGS HARDER FOR YOURSELF BECAUSE......YOU JUST DO OKAY????

[Anonymous No.23177674]

>>23177067
Keep at it, it is a difficult transition. Go slow, focus on a small section per day.
Pharr's edition of Virgil I-VI is immensely helpful for those new to Virgil. He lists the most commonly used words in a giant foldout in the back and every word not on the list is glossed under the text. Fantastic resource and highly recommended. it is in the Mega

[Anonymous No.23177761]

>>23177401
She probably is not aware of how easy it is to get a digital keyboard.

[Anonymous No.23178165]

Does anyone know any good worksheets to drill sequence of tenses in the indicative and subjunctive?

[Anonymous No.23178430]

Why are there so few latin translations of the greek classics?
No doubt the Romans made many but they're lost to time.
But why hasn't anyone remade them since that time?
I wanted to read Livius Andronicus's latin translation of the Odyssey only to be disappointed to find that only like 40 lines remain of the entire thing.

I know it takes an immense out of skill to make a decent translation of a work, but classisists have been fawning over the greek and latin classics for hundreds of years at this point you'd think there'd be a well acclaimed latin translation for every greek work and even greek translations of latin works.

[Anonymous No.23178487]

>>23176397
I did a maths degree and ended up learning the grek alphabet by accident so perhaps consider doing the same.

[Anonymous No.23178500]

>>23178430
they exist. a lot have been made during the renaissance and after.

https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%91%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%BD%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%B5%CF%8D%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B1_%CF%80%CE%B5%CF%81%CE%AF_%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85_%CE%B3%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%8D_%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%AD%CE%BC%CE%BF%CF%85
de bello gallico in ancient greek. and then

Andrea Divas (shoutout to Ezra Pound) made translations of Homer and Aristophanes into Latin. Tons of others. Dumpster dive on archive dot org or google books to find them.

[Anonymous No.23178501]

>>23178430
If you're willing to put in the work to study Latin and you really want to read Greek literature then why would you read a translation in a less familiar language and not your own language? If you really cared, just learn Greek. As for the reverse most people in the west who have studied Greek also know Latin so it'd be a completely useless exercise except as a bit of fun. At one time when Latin was much more everyday things got translated, (the works of the Greek church fathers and some laws are good examples) but that's no longer the case.

[Anonymous No.23178507]

>>23178501
I stand corrected I guess enough people did have the passion to do it. I guess if there ever was a time after the classical era the Renaissance would be it.

[Anonymous No.23178907]

Modern Greeks can't format their fucking ancient texts right. I'm trying to read Aesop's fables on a modern Greek site and they consistently spell οὗτοι as οὖτοι (no it is not supposed to be οὔτοι) and make tons and tons of other minor errors too like ἀθρωπος instead of ἀνθρωπος. No wonder Germans and Brits dominate classics publishing.
Any Greek after 1453 can't into classics. All know is whine about the British museum, be Albanian, wewuz, and not repay debts.

[Anonymous No.23178916]

>>23178501
Theoretically, because Latin and Greek are inflected languages, Latin would be able to more closely replicate Greek. There are many differences between the two, but Latin and Greek are more similar to each other than each would be to a modern language.

[Anonymous No.23178927]

>>23178907
This is because
Greeks 350 BC = 80% Nordic
Greeks 1453 BC = 40% Nordic
"Greeks" now = 15% Nordic

[Anonymous No.23178930]

>>23158254
Jąkam się i brnę. Jąkam się i brnę. Jąkam się i brnę. Jąkam się i brnę. Jąkam się i brnę. Jąkam się i brnę. Każdego dnia.

[Anonymous No.23179108]

Zoomers CAN NOT FUCKING LEARN LATIN. This is out out of hand! I have been teaching Latin for 20 years and even the good students are awful relative to even some of the worst in the past.
>1 year in and most still can't parse every tense of sum
>Complain that I don't give enough "input" - which I certainly do btw - so I posted an anonymous survey on what kind of input they want and it's all "we should watch Minecraft Latin" responses
>Just found out 90% of them completely rely on Perseus/online cheats by giving the first paper pop quiz. It was just a very basic passage of Nepos that they had to parse and translate and only 2 students passed out of 20.
>Only compositions they are willing to do is "I HEART BEING A ZOOMER FAG" crap like translating Better Call Saul into Latin.
And no I'm not teaching "grammar translation" method. I've been using tons of input, speaking in Latin, teaching grammar intuitively, etc.
They're 95% white btw so it's not 90 iq banlieue kids.

[Anonymous No.23179148]

>>23178927
Corroborated by no evidence at all. Greeks of today are very similar to ancient ones.

[Anonymous No.23179160]

>>23179108
how does one even teach Latin over the years? what I mean is, if I can take a latin textbook and say, spend a year with it(stretching it) and then start simply hacking at actual texts, how does the average lesson over the span of a school curriculum lasting years look like? is the professor expected to e.g spend two weeks on the first declension or something?

[Anonymous No.23179176]

Hot take: Latin is difficult no matter the method.
Using "easy" methods like llpsi encourage a lax easy going mindset which is directly responsible for people making no progress.
Students should be made to feel that they are engaging in a difficult pursuit and that a serious hardworking mindset is required to progress.

[Anonymous No.23179204]

>>23179108
bring back flogging

[Anonymous No.23179226]

>>23179108
Well, yeah? You can't force someone to learn a language. Go over to /lang/ on /int/ and ask them how it's done. Do that. Cram conjugation/declension tables and INPOOOOOOT stuff that you like. If they don't like Cicero fanning his own balls, then they shouldn't be in Latin. If you want people to learn Latin because you think that Latin is just so fucking cool then you need to produce media for them to inpoooooooooot that they'll actually consume.

[Anonymous No.23179232]

>>23179148
>Greeks of today are very similar to ancient ones.
Byzantine Greeks suffered ethnic replacement by Slavs in much of Greece, mass Armenian and Syrian migration during the early Byzantine period, then mass Albanian migration later. This is a cope.

[Anonymous No.23179241]

>>23179226
I know for a fact zoomer males think the Roman Empire is awesome. They would love Virgil, Caesar or Livy if they learned enough Latin to read them. There would be plenty of input then. It's strictly a problem of them being lazy. And no you don't need Minecraft videos and Dragonball Z to learn a language.
But the modern language learning community is mostly hylics who use meme terms like "inpoooot" and "CONSUME" as if language learning is like eating mcdonalds so w.e

[Anonymous No.23179259]

Input is a cope.

[Anonymous No.23179290]

>>23179241
I don't think that's true
Just getting them to read Virgil, Caesar or Livy in English translation would be an arduous task

[Anonymous No.23179337]

>>23179290
When Turnus had assembled all his pow'rs,
His standard planted on Laurentum's tow'rs;
When now the sprightly trumpet, from afar,
Had giv'n the signal of approaching war,
Had rous'd the neighing steeds to scour the fields,
While the fierce riders clatter'd on their shields;
Trembling with rage, the Latian youth prepare
To join th' allies, and headlong rush to war.

vs

Yo, when Turnus got his squad all tight,
Planted his flag on Laurentum's height,
The trumpet be boomin, war's vibe be near,
Got dem horses wild, kickin' in gear,
Riders rollin', shields be clinkin' loud,
Latian youth amped up, ready and proud,
With dey niggas, they dashin' to the fight,
Heads high, ain't backing down, that's right.

get GPT to translate the 16th-19th century translations into ebonics.

[Anonymous No.23179343]

>>23179337
You are a poser

[Anonymous No.23179360]

>>23179343
make sure you get a sick lofi beat to rap over

[Anonymous No.23179362]

>>23179343
simulantes delendi sunt

[Anonymous No.23179364]

>>23179360
suno ai

[Anonymous No.23179451]

>>23179232
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867421003706

[Anonymous No.23179495]

>>23179241
You can think the Roman empire is awesome, but still find Virgil, Caesar, and Livy to be tedious.

[Anonymous No.23179539]

>>23179108
What level are you teaching? I teach middle school level and most of them grasp the story with the intro level stories and novellas that I use.

[Anonymous No.23179683]

Goddamn it I was so fucking confused by two different sources using a different genitive dative order

[Anonymous No.23179816]

>>23179108
>And no I'm not teaching "grammar translation" method. I've been using tons of input, speaking in Latin, teaching grammar intuitively, etc.
>Zoomers CAN NOT FUCKING LEARN LATIN
Maybe these two are related
Your method isn't working, why not try another

[Anonymous No.23179819]

>>23179176
based

[Anonymous No.23179864]

>>23179108
damn sounds like some of the students in college. We had some really awful people in my class.

[Anonymous No.23179916]

>>23179176
LLPSI isn't easy though. Try reading the later chapters of Familia Romana or any of Fabulae Syrae and tell me that shit's easy.

[Anonymous No.23179917]

>>23179148
>Greeks of today are very similar to ancient ones.

[Anonymous No.23179950]

>>23179916
If you've enough Latin to read actual literature, then all of FR and FS feels so formulaic in comparison that it's a breeze reading through it.
Can't speak for RA because I haven't bothered with it.

[Anonymous No.23179999]

>>23179950
Why would anyone who can read actual literature bother with LLPSI?
If you can fluently read Cicero without needing to translate or parse the text, LLPSI is not for you

[Anonymous No.23180157]

>>23179950
The difficulty is that new vocabulary is added too quickly in each chapter without enough repetition of previous vocabulary for a student using ONLY LLPSI to acquire most of the vocabulary. You need additional reading to reinforce the rarer words and structures.

[Anonymous No.23180228]

>>23174151
Well, Irish traditionally uses an overdot for lenited consonants, though in Latin type it's usually written as a digraph with H instead.
>>23174287
Vietnamese does at least have the advantage that a fluent speaker can recover a few smudged diacritics here and there by context (in fact, they can usually make out text with no diacritics at all), but then again I'm sure the same applies to any natural language, Sanskrit included.

[Anonymous No.23180232]

>>23175488
My native language is usually better at moving me, but I have definitely enjoyed writings that moved me in a second language, and do not move me nearly as well in translation. It is possible.

[Anonymous No.23180235]

>>23176397
Have you tried just reciting the order of the Greek alphabet repeatedly? That's how you most likely learned the order of the Latin alphabet initially, and at least personally I still find myself occasionally doing it to figure out alphabetization.

[Anonymous No.23180238]

>>23176427
>reading physical books is the goal, it's the experience that everyone is working towards
Kinda devil's advocate but why? My mum does most of her reading these days on an e-reader even in her native language and she seems content with it.

[Anonymous No.23180242]

>>23178907
>they consistently spell οὗτοι as οὖτοι
I cannot see the difference between these on my screen unless I zoom waaaaay in.

[Anonymous No.23180251]

>>23178927
>>23179148
>>23179232
>>23179451
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.23180264]

>>23179290
Yeah because the English translations of Latin trexts are in the same gramatical structure, since they're supposed to be used as a reference, not as something to actually read. Latinophone zoomers would have an easier time.

[Anonymous No.23180265]

>>23179360
You kid, but honestly performing ancient poetry as rap, either the original or a verse translation, would be a cool concept. Homer has one major thing in common with rappers, namely a fundamental orality. And after all, the Chinese set their ancient poems as pop songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP7YQ9WyznQ

[Anonymous No.23180270]

>>23180265
Not ancient but still in a classical language
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dboyYcJPiWM

[Anonymous No.23180271]

>>23179176
It's hard insofar as learning any language is hard, but it's also not particularly inherently special as a language, and indeed purely in terms of linguistic traits it's probably easier for English-speakers than any non-European language.

[Anonymous No.23180284]

>>23180270
The Chinese one I posted isn't exactly "ancient" by the western definition, I guess I meant "ancient" in the sense of 古, i.e. prior ages/old. Also here's a more modern Latin (macaronic) rap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2TZew7J_80

[Anonymous No.23180460]

>>23179451
Back in the day people would insistingly deny to me that Aegean and Tyrsenian peoples could have any affinity to people of the southern Caucasus.

https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/660839/#q672202

[Anonymous No.23180469]

>>23180265
>>23180270
>>23180284
>it's rap...but in LATIN
>ebin, simply ebin, updoot
I despise faggots like you

[Anonymous No.23180480]

>>23180469
>latin rap is le BAD even doe it's historically accurate because the romans were the equivalents of niggers

[Anonymous No.23180490]

>>23180480
>romans were the equivalents of niggers
show me the african Coliseum
>posts nigger bop instead

[Anonymous No.23180494]

Are there any diglot books with basic prose that help accelerate learning? I really really really like the Reading Greek adapted prose textbook, but it's not a diglot so it's taking me too much time having to hunt down single words in dictionaries.

[Anonymous No.23180503]

>>23180490
>show me the african Coliseum
The whole of American is the nigger's Colosseum, look outside

[Anonymous No.23181040]

What the fuck is the point of Sanskrit? Homer mogs rigveda and Ramayana is an anime

[Anonymous No.23181104]

>>23180265
>>23180270
>>23180469
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WleJUy8lDPU
ayo check it 1 2 3 we finna rap the parts of the dialectic
get yo ipad ready cuz dis finna be hectic

[Anonymous No.23181328]

>>23181040
An extant devotional tradition as opposed to one that's inexistant.

[Anonymous No.23181347]

>>23181104
>Anglo-Judaeans drawing borders
Wouldn't be the first time witnessing how these kinds of decisions play out.

[Anonymous No.23181356]

>>23175442
Why are you asking people to study a living language when you are on a literature board?

[Anonymous No.23181414]

>>23181040
I mean after a certain point what's the point of anything when Homer and Vergil are just so good.

[Anonymous No.23181438]

>>23181328
applies to Arabic and Classical Chinese (too an extent) as well

[Anonymous No.23181442]

some good news for CC learners:
the second edition of An Introduction to Literary Chinese by Michael Fuller is coming out soon, featuring a new chapter on Buddhist texts and the addition of review questions to all of the third section
it also fixes many minor errors, and one major error where 焉 was misdefined as 於安

I got to take a look at an early copy today, pretty cool

[Anonymous No.23181492]

τὸ νέον
>>23181488
>>23181488
>>23181488

[Anonymous No.23181493]

>>23180494
https://seumasjeltzz.github.io/LinguaeGraecaePerSeIllustrata/
use the resources I listed here >>23175925