just finished reading this, any good books related that you can recommend? I'm a History major anyways You can also suggest any good History related books :)

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Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:09:43 2012 No.2311128 [Reply] [Original]

just finished reading this, any good books related that you can recommend?

I'm a History major anyways

You can also suggest any good History related books :)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:15:42 2012 No.2311155 Guns, Germs, And Steel is a horrible book that doesn't come close to justifying its claims. If you are going to read unscientific drivel you might as well read more Diamond books.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:16:41 2012 No.2311160
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If you like Anth/Soc books, try Good to Eat by Marvin Harris. It's similar to G,G, & S, in that he discusses how geography and climate. But he focuses on how they affect the cultural beliefs about food.

jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 01:16:42 2012 No.2311158

http://www.amazon.com/Late-Victorian-Holocausts-Famines-Making/dp/1859843824

http://www.amazon.com/Mediterranean-World-Age-Philip-II/dp/0520203305/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

Late Victorian Holocausts by Mike Davis and The Mediterranean by Fernand Braudel should be required reading for you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:22:42 2012 No.2311191 File: 28 KB, 400x400, 1325969746410.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2311155 Go take a fucking anthropology class and come back when you know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:33:41 2012 No.2311245 personally the book came off more redundant than a tourettes person swearing

jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 01:38:41 2012 No.2311268

>>2311245

Welcome to the world of academic writing. Part of it is bad writing, but it also has to do with the fact that most people will only read a portion of the book and so academic authors need to constantly repeat themselves so as to make sure that somebody reading just one or two chapters will still be exposed to certain ideas that the author wants to get across.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:41:42 2012 No.2311280 >>2311268 Guns, Germs, and Steel was about the furthest thing away from academic writing I have ever read. It was meant for a general audience. Your point about redundancy across chapters is well-made, however.

>>	Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Mon Jan 9 01:41:42 2012 No.2311281 File: 34 KB, 398x600, 1848 - Rapport.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2311128 Resident history-bug here. <-Read.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:43:41 2012 No.2311288 >History major >Just finished entry level shit No disrespect to Diamond, his book is good enough, but it is seriously freshman year in high school tier.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:46:42 2012 No.2311295 >>2311281 was just searching for a history of the French Revolution within a wider context. Thank you very much.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:47:42 2012 No.2311299

Speaking of history books, I've been looking forever for a book I used to know the title of but never bought. It's a modern novel about Victorian-era science, but it also touches on writers from the time like Shelly whose work revealed views of science at the time. The title has either the word 'beautiful' or 'magnificent' or 'marvelous' in it, and the cover has a tree with a starry sky. Any ideas?

>>	jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 01:47:42 2012 No.2311302 >>2311280 He's still an academic with academic writing habits though. I was just trying to explain the repetitiveness, I wasn't making a statement about the difficulty level of the book.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:48:42 2012 No.2311305 >>2311295 uh i mean, there was a revolution in france in 1848, but The French Revolution usually refers to the one beginning 1789

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:51:41 2012 No.2311316 >>2311305 Thanks for clearing it up. Any suggestions for a history of the 1789 French Revolution?

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:52:42 2012 No.2311320
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Last Letters: Prisons & Prisoners of the French Revolution by Olivier Blanc

About 1/3 is about the various prisons and conditions of prisoners during the revolution, the rest is a collection of (mostly) previously unpublished "last letters" written by people who were executed during the revolution. The letters, with very few exceptions, were all intercepted by prison officials and never delivered.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:54:41 2012 No.2311327

>>2311316
Dif anon, but, what kind of book are you looking for? A basic general overview or just something interesting about the revolution?

A Concise History of the French Revolution by Sylvia Neely is a nice overview that is actually an overview of the events leading to the Revolution, within the revolution, and up until I believe Napoleon takes power. It was a breath of fresh air, really. In my experience most "a brief history," "a concise history," "a history of___" books go off on random tangents instead of giving a nice general look.

Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Mon Jan 9 01:54:42 2012 No.2311324
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>>2311295
Yeah, there was also another one in 1871. And I think a couple of others. It irks me so to hear some of the anti-French in my country complain about them surrendering all the time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:56:41 2012 No.2311329 >>2311280 Diamond is an ornithologist making observations about how civilizations can be so different technologically. It was considered a decent by my anth profs.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 01:58:42 2012 No.2311332

>>2311324
They had a lot of revolutions, yeah.

Also, to say that shit about French military history, you pretty much have to be ignorant of... uhh... all of French military history, except the year 1940. It's amazingly ignorant, not to mention petty, since the only reason people do it is because France was (rightly) against us on the whole Iraq thing. Man, it's some dumb shit.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:00:42 2012 No.2311337
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>>2311327
I was looking for a basic general overview. My independent study of history has been too focused on America and East Asia. I'm missing out on European history, largely. I'm in complete agreement with you about the wildly inconsistent quality of general overviews.

Probably my favourite overview along that line would be The Search for Modern China by Jonathan D. Spence. I read it like a novel, it was so engrossing and well-organized.

Could you also recommend an overview of modern Britain/Ireland/Scotland (the last 500 years)?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:07:41 2012 No.2311344 >>2311337 I would go with Neely's book, although it's a bit dry in the beginning.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:08:41 2012 No.2311346 File: 18 KB, 265x400, Decline_of_the_West_1922.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] It's like Guns, Germs and Steel, but it's good.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:10:41 2012 No.2311351

>>2311332
oh wait 1870 also counts in the "unambiguous and shameful French defeat category". to be fair, it's for roughly similar reasons to 1940: they were facing a technically and tactically superior German army that outmaneuvered them hideously. although in 1940 they also had the excuse of the massive blood cost of World War I.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:12:41 2012 No.2311352 File: 219 KB, 1200x945, SPAD_VII_Guynemer_Le_Bourget_01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The Guns of August. If you find the first world war interesting then this is your book.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:23:41 2012 No.2311368 ctrl-f "victor davis hanson" no results fuck you lit. fuck you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:25:41 2012 No.2311370 >>2311352 Lazy British apologia.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:26:41 2012 No.2311373 >>2311368 victor davis hanson is still fucking terrible, though

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:30:41 2012 No.2311382 I'd love a book that's an overview of the Bourbon Restoration in France... I wish this period wasn't always overlooked in favor of the July Monarchy & post-1848.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:30:41 2012 No.2311383 >>2311370 The book makes most of the leaders of every faction in the war out to be fairly misguided, it hardly picks on the English in particular.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:32:41 2012 No.2311386 >>2311383 >Doesn't know the meaning of "apologia".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:36:41 2012 No.2311400 >>2311386 I sure as fuck do. Please explain why you think the term applies, as I can't think of a reason. The book makes the French and Russians out to be just as big of fools. It doesn't spare the Germans either.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:42:42 2012 No.2311408

>>2311386

That book makes the British out to have completely overreacted in the extent of their retreat, and it also emphasizes the way in which it compromised the French army which it was supposed to be supporting. Be honest, have you actually read the book?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:43:42 2012 No.2311409 File: 352 KB, 488x688, wtfswan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2311400 Wow, just wow. >Hint: You /don't/ know what the word means.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:51:43 2012 No.2311423

>>2311408

Well, since you deleted your post of crowning idiocy, but still don't /quite/ seem to understand what the word means, I'll be real slow for you.

Yes, I've read the book. I've read it three times. At eleven, at sixteen and at twenty–five.

It doesn't have to say the British were right in all things (it certainly demonstrates how they militarily made a mess of things), but it does give a thorough /political/ defense of British actions in WWI, down to uncritically parroting wartime propaganda and frequent stereotyped portrayals of the German/Prussian officer corps.

Tuchman's apologetic purpose is evident throughout the book. It's to justify the British intervention in the continental struggle and to blame the Germans. While she feints to the typical "folly of Europe" narrative, she never quite explains whose folly it was: Perhaps the only great power (until the US) who entered without clear interests at stake?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:55:43 2012 No.2311429 >>2311423 Do you not believe the Germans were to blame?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 02:58:42 2012 No.2311437 >>2311429 You know your argument has fallen apart when you have to reduce it to a matter of absolutes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:00:43 2012 No.2311440 C.V. Wedgwood's "The Thirty Years War" Peter H. Wilson's recent book is more "complete", but Wedgwood's is brilliantly written.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:00:43 2012 No.2311441 >>2311437 My opinion hasn't fallen apart at all, I don't feel that she wrongly justified anything on the part of the British. You have never made an argument to invalidate this opinion, you have simply stated an opposing view. You are a cock.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:02:42 2012 No.2311447

>>2311429

No, I don't. The Russians were to blame for readying for war over internal Austrian problems. Then the French were to blame for being willing to go to war with Germany and Austria over this. Then the Germans for attacking neutral Belgium due to their master–plan against the French. Then the English for ignoring all good sense (use naval superiority to ensure trade and fatten yourself on the conflict) and entering into the war.

That isn't in order of seriousness in my eyes, just chronology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:03:43 2012 No.2311450 >>2311423 >but it does give a thorough /political/ defense of British actions in WWI And?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:05:42 2012 No.2311454 >>2311447 The French had good reason for an alliance with Russia(which bound them to war with Germany) because of the war of 1870.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:07:42 2012 No.2311458

>>2311441

That wasn't me.

Pay attention to her language: she compares the Germans to swarms of ants; she constantly takes shots at the Kaiser, but hardly any at British and French politicians or generals (except those who wished for peace); how melodramatic the prose gets.

Tuchman's book was a British apologia because the only way you could justify "liberal internationalism" with WWI was to focus on the British. Harsh experience had long since dampened American enthusiasm for Wilson's war for democracy, so the lesson needed to be pushed back. Why do you think JFK loved it so much?

This isn't even mentioning how she repeats British war propaganda (often unsourced) as to German conduct in Belgium and France during the opening months.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:09:43 2012 No.2311461

>>2311454

And that explains why they needed to go to war for pan–Slavism, why?

A stupid ally is worse than none at all.

>>2311450

My point was that it was a British apologia. So that it is a political defense of British action is the whole point, chieftain.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:17:42 2012 No.2311471

>>2311458

>This isn't even mentioning how she repeats British war propaganda (often unsourced) as to German conduct in Belgium and France during the opening months.

Are you saying the Germans did not execute civilians and burn entire towns to the ground? Are her claims that it was part of German anti-insurgent strategy in response to guerrilla tactics they encountered in the war of 1870 false?

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:20:42 2012 No.2311477

Guns germs and steel is anti white garbage. Diamond tries to nullify the accomplishments of the white race based on the argument that blacks and other races were never near the necessary resources in order to make the necessary strides the white race had done.

It is completely ludicrous. It is absolutely baffling to think that such leftist mud loving shit is hailed to be credible in the scientific and literary world. It absolutely defecates on the white race as a whole as it attempts to strip away the great strides of military prowess and technological advancement with snide remarks of how geographical advantages are the reason why we are the way we are through and through.

It never mentions why blacks never had a written language so they could do book keeping or record history. Of course not. Geography is to blame for that fuck whitey.

It never mentions that Africa is chock full of every fucking natural resource needed to sustain any type of fucking civilization.

If anything. The book should prove that blacks are just under evolved monkeys prancing around Africa killing each other and raping each other instead of setting up a sustainable infer structure.

But no. He wrote a book about how whites are pathetic to think that they have earned anything in the current world because all the exponential progress they have made during their stint on this planet and instead the credit all goes to geography. If he wrote a book that praised the white race and revealed the truth about blacks and other aboriginal fucking apes he would be demonized as a racist and a bigot for not romanticizing our monkey friends that we drag along in our halted journey of progress.

Fuck Diamond and fuck those who buy into his message of antiwhite bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:23:42 2012 No.2311483 >>2311461 >And that explains why they needed to go to war for pan–Slavism, why? Germany attacked France first, so this argument is false.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:24:42 2012 No.2311485

>>2311471

>Some claims are false ≠ All claims are false

I can't even believe I'm still arguing with the dude who didn't know what "apologia" means and then wrote an angry post when I pointed it out starting with a claim that he did so know what it meant… which then immediately demonstrated that he believed the word to mean the /opposite/ of what it means.

Toodles, I'm off to breakfast.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:27:42 2012 No.2311489 if you're interested in social history: Crabgrass Frontier Bowling Alone political history: The Great Triumvirate

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:29:42 2012 No.2311493

>>2311485

Wow. That black hole of a response totally convinced me that you are right! No, actually I did the opposite. You are a fucking moron. Maybe on your tenth reading of the book you will be able to give an accurate portrayal of it.

>she makes the germans seems liek they did bad in belgium!!
>well, didn't they?
>yeah...but...butt.....ywwwwaaahhhhhhhgh I'm dumb!!!!

>>	listserv !!Wqo2DQRkhKC Mon Jan 9 03:35:43 2012 No.2311507 Hey, OP. If you liked Diamond, you should read Niall Ferguson's new book: Civilisation.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:37:42 2012 No.2311514

Guy who was defending The Guns of August, here: I concede that she does dehumanize the Germans to an extent, but a historical account without any kind of perspective added to it by the author is a lame dick timeline, which no one wants to read, and which has no point. I think her attitude towards the Germans was justified

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:37:42 2012 No.2311515 >>2311507 If you like to be patronised by an old Thatcherite.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:43:42 2012 No.2311525 >>2311477 LOL, Away back to stormfront you retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:48:42 2012 No.2311534 >>2311525 Nice argument pleb.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:48:42 2012 No.2311535 >>2311477 who let you out of /new/?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:49:43 2012 No.2311537 >>2311477 Ron Paul 2012.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:51:42 2012 No.2311538 File: 6 KB, 184x184, 1305033238865.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] any good books about the history of China?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:51:42 2012 No.2311539 File: 235 KB, 436x449, no spin zone.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2311537

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:51:42 2012 No.2311541 >>2311537 RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION! END THE FED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone here should join the ReLOVEution!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:52:42 2012 No.2311544 >>2311535 Is my point of view wrong? If so please enlighten me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:52:42 2012 No.2311545 >>2311538 Jonathan D. Spence's The Search for Modern China

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:55:43 2012 No.2311550 britfag here, WTF is a "ReLOVEution"? Can any of you explain?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:55:43 2012 No.2311551 >>2311539 >Wars: Yes, No, Yes >no spin zone lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 03:59:43 2012 No.2311557 OP here, book about French revolution is good too, any good overview? checked the A Concise History of the French Revolution by Neely Sylvia tho, not intrested

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 04:09:42 2012 No.2311578 File: 17 KB, 205x205, 1321988174210.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Anyone know of some good books on the history of Japan?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 04:31:43 2012 No.2311608 >>2311477 >>2311477 another stormfront loser with no life accomplishments or prospects choosing to valiantly "defend" the white race from his computer while actual hardworking people of all races advance humanity

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 05:12:42 2012 No.2311671 File: 72 KB, 210x230, 1325955235400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2311477 >Implying Europeans ever invented a writing script by themselves

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 05:42:45 2012 No.2311725

>>2311608
While he does sound like a pleb who can't articulate his point very well, he's quite correct.

Jared Diamond is, like all of contemporary academia, which is saturated with these people, just another lying jew fuck (note: I am not speaking off all jews) who disdains the notion of races being anything other than superficial, though he has espoused his own jewish superiority based on the very concepts he condems.

I wonder if any of the people who have read this garbage have actually looked at some of the things this man says about jews.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 05:57:42 2012 No.2311739 >>2311608 You attack me on a personal basis instead of attacking my argument. You have already forfeited this contest.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 07:11:44 2012 No.2311827 >>2311739 Haha look at this moron. Imma gonna wave my logical fallacy wand towards you, Harry. Adhocium, alohomora!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 07:19:44 2012 No.2311831 >>2311671 Also, why does everyone forget that Egypt is in africa?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 07:20:44 2012 No.2311832 File: 32 KB, 427x507, laughing_blue_man.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >stormfront getting piledrived

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 07:25:45 2012 No.2311837 >>2311128 Read thread. Stormfront argumenting. No one dares to respond and resorts to insults instead. Real classy /lit/, you sure are true intellectuals.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 07:47:44 2012 No.2311855

>>2311837
As it should be. The minute you start taking these retards seriously enough to give them an argument you've already lost. If they don't understand why a racialist world-view is wrong already then you're not going to convince them on 4chan. No platform for wankers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 07:51:45 2012 No.2311858 >>2311855 That is the most retard argument I have ever heard. Please refrain from posting any further.

>>	listserv !!Wqo2DQRkhKC Mon Jan 9 08:00:45 2012 No.2311862 >>2311515 Ferguson's fucking brilliant.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 08:24:45 2012 No.2311886

>>2311858
It's not an argument, it's an explaination. Any evidence used to argue against this sort of bigot is disregarded by said bigot on the basis that it supports a world view which suggests that Europeans are anything other than the genetically pure kings of everything, and the rightful inheritors of the world.

It's an absolute waste of time and effort.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 08:35:45 2012 No.2311897 File: 225 KB, 258x312, laughter9.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Stormfrogs

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 08:45:45 2012 No.2311907

>>2311855
>WE ARE ALL DA SAME. DIS BOOK SAID SO AND IT'S 100% PROOF U JUST RACIS

No.

>>2311886
>THIS WAY OF THINKING IS WRONG BECAUSE IT'S NOT MY WAY OF THINKING. I'M NOT GOING TO EXPLAIN WHY BCUZ UR A BIGOT AND U SUCK XDXDXDXDXDDDD

At least try and argue with him instead of petty ad hominem attacks.

>It's an absolute waste of time and effort.
AND YET YOU REPLY WITH YOUR BUTTHURT POSTS, ONE AFTER THE OTHER.

You're fucking pathetic. Get off /lit/ and never come back.

inb4 I am that guy. I'm not.

>>	jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 08:53:46 2012 No.2311913 >>2311907 Fuck off, the anon is right. Bigots don't deserve serious responses. This thread went to shit fast.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 09:13:47 2012 No.2311926 >>2311913 >Bigots don't deserve serious responses. >Bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own Looks like you two retards are the bigots. Stop shitting up this board with your bullshit.

>>	jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 09:22:47 2012 No.2311931 >>2311926 Yea, too bad we can't all be white supremacists. Then this place would be a million times better.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 09:30:51 2012 No.2311937 >>2311931 No, this place would be better if you and your ilk would fuck off and stop shit-posting.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 09:43:45 2012 No.2311951

Instead of insulting that one guy with different opinions, maybe you should try to understand and reason with him; not portray yourselves as fucking mongrels. Now he wins by default.

Don't worry White Supremacist Guy, some here see the points you make, even if you use aggravating and pointlessly hostile rhetoric (please stop though).

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 09:47:45 2012 No.2311957 File: 1.15 MB, 1280x960, rsz_img_1405.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Here is my history book shelf. Above is the complete decline and fall + The Civil War by shelby foote

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 10:12:45 2012 No.2312005 File: 9 KB, 250x250, laughter24.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2311951 >understand and reason with a white supremacist >otherwise he wins

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 10:30:46 2012 No.2312029 Boasian anthropology is a cult.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 10:51:46 2012 No.2312049 If Diamond's theory of geographic determinism were correct, wouldn't of Sub-Saharan Africa been more technologically advanced than MesoAmerica?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 11:03:45 2012 No.2312061 File: 87 KB, 400x400, tumblr_lr9ur4aPdW1qhgszko1_400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >What are some good books similar to Guns Germs and Steel >82 responses >No mention of Ecological Imperialism Y'all niggas is weak. Pic related.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 11:08:45 2012 No.2312074 >>2311477 >white race girlslaughing.jpeg

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 11:08:46 2012 No.2312073
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>>2312049

>> Implying ancient aliens didnt help MesoAmerica along

What, you KNOW how they made those pyramids? Fingerprints of the Gods General

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 11:52:48 2012 No.2312146 >>2312049 It was more advanced in some ways, but it varied hugely across the region. Metal weaponry, for instance, is a major development that was absent in meso-Americas.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 12:36:49 2012 No.2312194

>>2311557
The Days of the French Revolution by Christopher Hibbert is okay. Goes off on a lot of tangents. Also Marxist IIRC.

Citizens by Simon Schama is... eh. Schama. Very long and ... Schama.

The Oxford History of the French Revolution by William Doyle is good, also goes on tangents, can't remember off the top of my head what theory he takes.

A Critical Dictionary of the French Revolution by Francois Furet is also good, though long and expensive, and I'm not sure if the format is good for "overviews."

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 12:38:51 2012 No.2312198 >>2312194 Doyle's a Revisionist, and argues that the loss of life, and brutality of the Revolution outweighed its positive aspects, for French citizens at least.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 12:48:48 2012 No.2312207 >>2312194 Hey, I like Schama! Or at least, the mini-series he did on the history of Britain.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 12:58:48 2012 No.2312223

>>2312207
I like this writing style but I just feel like he's far too soft on Old Regime France and subsequently tries to paint the revolution as something that ruined those "awesome sweet nice nobles who were totally liberal!" while turning the revolutionary side into monsters.

Yes, Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette were not particularly horrible, really the least assholish of the monarchs on the French throne in the past 100 years, and Louis XVI did attempt to push through reforms that would benefit the general people in France. But as a whole, old regime France was fucked up,*most* nobility were not liberal and would defy the king just to keep their rights and privileges that kept most of them rich, well fed, and "above" the rest of the population... I just feel like he really tried to paint the old nobility as kind benefactors who really wanted to revolutionize government, despite evidence to the contrary, while downplaying how revolutionary the... revolutionaries were. If that makes sense?

Sort of like Antonia Fraser. Love her writing, it's gotten a few of my friends who don't normally read non-fiction into history, but god sometimes her conclusions are so horribly biased it makes me want to scream.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 13:03:49 2012 No.2312234 File: 26 KB, 300x300, Francis-Fukuyama-Origins-of-Political-Order.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >You can also suggest any good History related books pic related, fucking great.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 13:08:48 2012 No.2312243

>>2312194
Might I add to your list Stanley Loomis' "Paris in the Terror". Although it is a bit more of a character study, I feel that it presents an extremely balanced picture of the great personalities of both the Jacobins and the Girondins.

He also paints an excellent picture of Charlotte Corday, journeying with her from childhood to the assassination of Marat and her execution.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 13:13:49 2012 No.2312251 >>2311477 Dear butthurt racist, the Egyptians were black. Also, there were highly civilized cultures in Central Africa before Rome was built. Why do I even bother answering? I so hope you're a troll.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 13:19:49 2012 No.2312262 I'm just here to diss Jared Diamond... We're doing that, right?

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 13:46:49 2012 No.2312313

>>2312262
Well, if you believe races do not exist, or that the genetic makeup of a people is entirely unrelated to the economy and society they make, please listen to the following video:
Steven Pinker on Jews, Genes and Intelligence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GexZF5VIMU
I'm neither Jewish (Jared Diamond is) nor a white supremacist. I just think people have a right (I do) and even a duty to be informed about issues so important to our society and its discourse. Where people are so righteous about their ignorance, their contradiction of what the evidence and the exercise of intelligence converges upon.
Some of the arguments ought to be recherché examples of underdetermination in philosophy of science, not actual science.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 13:47:48 2012 No.2312319 >>2312313 What an embarrassing rhetorical abortion I just had in this thread. At least it's anonymous

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:05:48 2012 No.2312357

Apparently I'm a racist and a bigot because I don't show a leftist view on this subject.

I've asked you to combat my argument with your viewpoint in hopes that you would have the knowledge and finesse to sway me.

Instead I received a hailstorm of petty catch worded insults.

It appears that the indoctrination of mix racing has really settled in deep within this generation.

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate the black chappies or the turban wearing knee benders or the slant eyed worker bees or the machete wielding drug running beaners. I just believe that we are all different and because some races can achieve the higher reaches of civilization close to utopia. We are not all fucking equal and being the product of your environment is just a shitty excuse to persuade the leftists dolts from seeing that the race is either too weak or too stupid to make their environment a product of their wishes.

I hate the zionists who have made it their mission to divide and conquer the goy. All of you lefts and rights out there have been deceived. Instead of coming together we are pushed into a two party system into order to split the masses. They watch us and laugh as we scream at our brothers instead of coming as one and ripping the rotting corrupted foundation of our infrastructure a sunder.

There will never be a revolution in this country until there is white unity and you cunts are holding us back with continuing the schism.

jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 14:11:48 2012 No.2312372

>>2312357

You can think w/e you want. But expecting anyone to take you seriously is asking too much. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and correcting all your retarded assumptions and misconceptions would take way more time than is worth investing in you.

Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:12:48 2012 No.2312375
File: 19 KB, 250x354, gregory cochran.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2312313

The paper Pinker is discussing:

http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/Documents/ashkiq.webpub.pdf
>This paper elaborates the hypothesis that the unique demography and sociology of Ashkenazim in medieval Europe selected for intelligence. Ashkenazi literacy, economic specialization, and closure to inward gene flow led to a social environment in which there was high fitness payoff to intelligence, specifically verbal and mathematical intelligence but not spatial ability. As with any regime of strong directional selection on a quantitative trait, genetic variants that were otherwise fitness reducing rose in frequency. In particular we propose that the well-known clusters of Ashkenazi genetic diseases, the sphingolipid cluster and the DNA repair cluster in particular, increase intelligence in heterozygotes. Other Ashkenazi disorders are known to increase intelligence. Although these disorders have been attributed to a bottleneck in Ashkenazi history and consequent genetic drift, there is no evidence of any bottleneck. Gene frequencies at a large number of autosomal loci show that if there was a bottleneck then subsequent gene flow from Europeans must have been very large, obliterating the effects of any bottleneck. The clustering of the disorders in only a few pathways and the presence at elevated frequency of more than one deleterious allele at many of them could not have been produced by drift. Instead these are signatures of strong and recent natural selection.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:17:48 2012 No.2312385

>>2312372
Pathetic fucking retort.

I'm open for discussion but instead of receiving actual words I get shit thrown at me as if you all are agitated primates without the capabilities to form words to combat me so you fall back on primal instincts.

Stop throwing shit and speak.

jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 14:20:48 2012 No.2312388

>>2312385

I'll speak with you on this topic after you've actually read the book and know wtf you're talking about. You should read collapse and late victorian holocausts while you're at it. That way you get a better understanding of why you're an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:23:48 2012 No.2312393 File: 54 KB, 200x167, putin-face.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2312251 >the Egyptians were black

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:23:48 2012 No.2312394 Zebras are too hard to tame thats why blacks never did! >implying the difference between horses and zebra isn't a social construct

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:25:48 2012 No.2312399

>>2312372
Jackpot you have not met any of his arguments yet. Stormfags tend to have pretty solid evidence to their claims due to the constant shitstorms they meet from people like you, if you really want to destroy those arguments, you need evidence to back it up.

Problems is , there aint none.
What is so hard to understand?
We are not born equal.
That said, it does not mean we shouldn't have equal rights.
You can racemix all you want.
But i'd prefer my wife to be white or asian perhaps jewish due to the genetic advantages my children will receive.

That being white skin.
Blue eyes.
Blonde hair.
Intellect.

What is wrong with choosing the best for my children?
Its called fucking evolution.
Why do you think black men have such a hard on for white women.
E V O L U T I O N

>>	jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 14:25:48 2012 No.2312400 >>2312394 >implying whites didn't try to domesticate zebras and also fail

>>	jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 14:27:49 2012 No.2312405 >>2312399 Too bad that none of this so called evidence is actually valid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:27:49 2012 No.2312407 >>2312405 >multiple citations needed

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:28:48 2012 No.2312411 >>2312400 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra#Domestication Not really. They were removed from selection because there were better alternatives.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:28:49 2012 No.2312409 >>2312400 >citation needed

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:30:48 2012 No.2312414 >>2312251 >the Egyptians were black Haha oh wow!

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:30:48 2012 No.2312415

I'm down with all races. I've lived in an environment which causes you to deal with other races (New York) every single day of your life. It's chill. There are good times and there are bad times. The problem isn't really race, males or females. There are just very few people that are worth the effort in general.

>>2312357

>There will never be a revolution in this country...

It already had one. This point of view is also one many anarchists/Marxists hold who still think there is a point to being determined about this. We don't know who our enemies are and we don't know what is right for anybody.Even if the masses stop bickering amongst each other and can overthrow everybody. No one knows a thing for sure, and no one really can.

Do i think all races are created equal? No. It's like saying all dogs are created equal. We don't say German Shepard's are Chihuahuas. It would be offensive to German Shepard's.

Do i think all Humans are created equal? Yes. Human nature doesn't change and studying history makes you realize that no matter how much evolution we have had over the last 4000 years and no matter how many culture clashes, ideologies, philosophies and countries have been given birth/rebirth. The human race keeps going in flux's along a spectrum instead of a continuous line forward or backwards.

Relax and think.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:32:48 2012 No.2312418 The biggest fascists of today are the anti-bigotry leftist hordes

jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 14:33:48 2012 No.2312421

>>2312407

Yea, you can start by citing the studies that supposedly "prove" white superiority in the first place. Too bad you can't show anything that isn't outdated, long discredited, and based in faulty logic/bad science. The belief that whites are somehow superior is largely based on the fact that Europe ruled the world for hundreds of years. Then people like Diamond came along and show how nature, geography, and pure luck are what actually led to European superiority, and racists like you then turn around and say he's wrong because whites are superior. It's circular logic, and that's why you're all idiots that aren't worth my time. Because you simply ignore anything that disproves your ideas and continue to push ideas that have long ago been disproven.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:35:49 2012 No.2312428 >>2312421 >multiple citations needed again

>>	jackpot !!CaSBHxbw8pz Mon Jan 9 14:36:48 2012 No.2312432 >>2312428 Yea, i'm still waiting for you to provide yours. Get on it.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:36:49 2012 No.2312430

Work with a black man from Ethiopia.
Turns out he have a master in economics and a master in "peoples health"
He works graveyard shift, then works morning shift and someties evening shift and then goes back to graveyard again.
>mfw when he works in elderly care because he can't get a job in his fields due to being black
Even though i believe in racial differences that feels fucking bad man.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:38:48 2012 No.2312436 >>2312251 > the Egyptians were black They are not negroid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:39:48 2012 No.2312440 >>2312432 Open your eyes and look around for proof of european superiority. Maybe it was pure luck but that's reality.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:40:48 2012 No.2312444 >>2312421 Several leading evolution biologist diagrees with him

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 14:46:48 2012 No.2312467

The Man Who Would Be King: The First American in Afghanistan is pretty good. Reads a lot like a novel. Good for anyone interested in the coat throat and bizarre world of Victorian colonialism and there's also some information about the history of Afghanistan in there.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:14:50 2012 No.2312532
File: 34 KB, 327x475, zinn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Since all you history buffs are here in one thread, could any of you recommend a decent primer on world history? I am a complete failure when it comes to history and need a good starting point.
Pic somewhat related. It's what I'm reading now.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:17:49 2012 No.2312539

>>2312414
>>2312436

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia#Nubia_and_Ancient_Egypt

Sorry bros, Nubian kings intermarried with the pharoahs all the times.

This of course doesnt change the fact that you will almost certainly be robbed or raped if you walk through any black neighborhood anywhere, but pure racialists are fools.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:18:49 2012 No.2312542 >>2312532 Howard Zinn's history is meant to be read as a supplement to your standard old school historical surveys that focused more on the dominant male actors.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:21:49 2012 No.2312548

>>2312532

Hey, >>2311957 here. Forget primers.

1. Herodotus, Thucydides, Plutarch, Livy
2. Ceaser, GIBBON Decline and Fall. Thats western history till 1450s
3. Paul Kennedy: The Rise and Fall of Great Powers is a good read about the modern era and nation state dynamics.

of course, these all ignore social and anthropological history, as well as the history of islam china and japan. With history, you have to read it all or read none of it.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:24:52 2012 No.2312552

>>2312539
Nubians ruling Egypt for some time doesn't make the Egyptians as a people black.
The idea that ancient Egyptians were black is one of the most ridiculous claims of Afrocentrism and it would have been though of as ridiculous, in the same way the idea that they were Nordic is, if not for political correctness.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:27:50 2012 No.2312564 >>2312552 That may be, but the people here are responding to diamond with "They arent capable of it, they are monkeys" which is garbage, but then noone is saying the Inca were untermenschen.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:29:49 2012 No.2312567 >>2312552 >Afrocentrism >Egypt However you dice it, Egypt is in Africa, ergo it's populated by Africans.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:32:49 2012 No.2312575 >>2312444 Such as?

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:34:52 2012 No.2312581

>>2312564
Whether they're calling blacks "monkeys" or not, Diamond being full of shit is correct.
As others have mentioned, he attributes Africa's backwardness to lack of resources etc. when that's simple not true. Quite the opposite in fact. He then goes on to claim that European success is purely environmental (while believing that Jews are inherently smarter than other people), ignoring the fact that when humans arrived in it, it was a gigantic frozen forest.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:35:51 2012 No.2312583 >>2312564 No one ever said that. Are you high? And if that would be the case does it justify your revisionism?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:37:50 2012 No.2312588 >>2312567 Afrocentrism is an ideology that claims, amongst other things, that the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Beethoven were black

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:37:50 2012 No.2312590 >>2312581 Resources =/= metals. Resources = foodstuffs capable of being stored for long periods of time

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:38:50 2012 No.2312592 >>2312588 beethoven was a dog dumbass

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:39:50 2012 No.2312596 >>2312590 >implying Africa doesn't have some of the most fertile land in the world

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:39:50 2012 No.2312598 >>2312590 Africa is full of fertile soil and edible plants and fruits, unlike ancient Europe which, as I said earlier, was a gigantic frozen forest when humans settled there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:43:50 2012 No.2312606 >>2312598 >>2312596 >foodstuffs capable of being stored for long periods of time >long periods of time If it was so amazing, white guys would have fucked Africa over like they did America.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:50:50 2012 No.2312615 >>2312606 This just has got to be trolling.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:51:50 2012 No.2312617

>>2312596
>>2312598
Fruits aren't known for preserving well. And fertile land is wasted if you don't have the right crops (in this case, stuff that can be stored for long periods like rice and wheat).
Africa does have yams, but I don't know how well they store/their calorie/effort ratio.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:51:50 2012 No.2312618 >>2312606 Are you really that stupid? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat >Wheat is a cereal grain, originally from the Levant region of the Near East and Ethiopian Highlands >originally from Ethiopian Highlands

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:56:50 2012 No.2312627 >>2312618 You apparently skipped the part where it's originally found in Turkey, Iraq, and Syria. The part about the Ethiopian Highlands is needlessly confusing and just denotes the areas encompassed by the Levant.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 15:58:50 2012 No.2312632 /lit/ - slapfights over wheat

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 16:02:50 2012 No.2312648

I wasnt surprised to see this bekom a rase diskusion. Thats nise. It is interesting. Altho the low level diskusion on 4chan makes it les interesting.

Iv been thinking about reeding Diamond's book. Lots of self-proklaimed "anti-racists" refer very much to that book so i am kinda kurius.

I am also kurius as to wat the IQ of afrikans ar if given proper SES. Lynn gives the figur of 80 in a book. I think it may be hier. Afrikans in the US skor about 85, but jeen tests reveel that their jeens ar miksed with wite jeens (i seem to rekall it is about 25% wite heritaj). And that number (85) is not adjusted for SES.

Besieds, it is difikult to rule out many of the 'scientific racists' out based simply on wite supremasy. Thees authors jeneraly agree that Eest Asians and Jews hav the best jeens for IQ/g. Not that such ad hominems wud show that they wer rong anyway. It kud hav been the kase that wites had the best jeens for IQ/g, but it just so hapens that they dont.

Anonymous Mon Jan 9 16:03:50 2012 No.2312649

>>2312618
I'm not saying there wasn't wheat. I'm saying they'd have difficulty storing it over most of Africa. Wheat's a bitch to store outside temperate zones. Also, Ethiopia was a large, rich kingdom until fairly recently, so you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 16:09:50 2012 No.2312669 File: 106 KB, 996x549, Levant-Ethiopia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2312627 What? Ethiopia is nowhere near Levant

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 9 16:11:51 2012 No.2312675 >>2312669 I stand corrected.

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/lit/ - Literature