Tolkien hated the ancient Greeks

[Anonymous No.23106501]

In a letter to his son Christopher, he stated:

>It is part of the nasty Hellenism in which we (certainly I) was brought up, in which that highly dubious character Socrates became more than a saint. The Ancient Greeks were for all their talents, a very nasty people of degraded habits and revolting attitude to women, and profoundly disliked by those among them whom we are supposed to take as representative—such as Plato.

There are numerous parallels in his work to the classics. I find it odd he hated the Greeks so much given how inspired he was by them.

[Anonymous No.23106503]

>>23106501
Kinda based.

[Anonymous No.23106507]

>>23106501
He started with Chauvet

[Anonymous No.23106510]

>>23106501
Neat.

[Anonymous No.23106516]

>>23106501
The Greeks represented everything Tolkien despised: hedonism, excess, debauchery, political turmoil, etc.

[Anonymous No.23106531]

>>23106501
He just hated meds in general

[Anonymous No.23106532]

>>23106501
>There are numerous parallels in his work to the classics. I find it odd he hated the Greeks so much given how inspired he was by them.

Little to none. Tolkien was mainly influenced by Finnish myths and Finnic national epics like the Kalevala.

We have actual quotes of Tolkien himself where he explicility states that The Kalevala inspired him. No other world myths come even close, not even the Bible.

>[The Kalevala was] “the original germ of the Silmarillion” (Tolkien Letters, 87)

>Tolkien wrote that The Story of Kullervo was ‘the germ of my attempt to write legends of my own’, and was ‘a major matter in the legends of the First Age’; his Kullervo was the ancestor of Túrin Turambar, tragic incestuous hero of The Silmarillion. In addition to being a powerful story in its own right, The Story of Kullervo – published here for the first time with the author’s drafts, notes and lecture-essays on its source-work, The Kalevala, is a foundation stone in the structure of Tolkien’s invented world.

Ironic how even the very aether of that world "Ilmen" of Arda derives from the Finnish word for Ilma (Air) https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Ilmen

It's a tribute to the Finnish word Ilma
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ilma
>From Proto-Finnic *ilma (“air, sky, weather”),

And also a tribute to Ilmarinen, the Smith of Air. Even "Eru Iluvatar" (the main God of Tolkien's mythical world shares the -Tar with Finnish gods)


>Tolkien wrote that The Story of Kullervo was ‘the germ of my attempt to write legends of my own’, and was ‘a major matter in the legends of the First Age’; his Kullervo was the ancestor of Túrin Turambar, tragic incestuous hero of The Silmarillion. In addition to being a powerful story in its own right, The Story of Kullervo – published here for the first time with the author’s drafts, notes and lecture-essays on its source-work, The Kalevala, is a foundation stone in the structure of Tolkien’s invented world.

Verlyn Flieger, who wrote that above quotation, is the Professor in the Department of English at the University of Maryland.

Academia agrees: Finnish myths formed the very backbone of Tolkien's mythological world and landscape: not Greek myths. Not the Bible. Not the Eddas. Only the Finnish myths. en the languages invented by Tolkien were not original, Quenya is literally a dialect of Finnish language.

[Anonymous No.23106640]

>>23106501
Did Plato really dislike le Greeks?

[Anonymous No.23106678]

>>23106532
Whether intended or not, strong parallels to the classics are present across his work.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_and_the_classical_world

Inb4
>le wikipedia!

All the sources and references are there

[Anonymous No.23106689]

>>23106531
A good position to have

[Anonymous No.23106781]

>>23106501
>revolting attitude to women
What is he talking about ?
I understand for anything against gays though.
And after Plato, since people admired him, this culture might have changed because of him so I don't see why he cannot be taking as a "representative" (or one of the best fruit).
Just classic christian critic against an overbearing classical culture

[Anonymous No.23106787]

>>23106640
The Republic constantly chastises Greek culture and while I think Plato was beyond proud of being Greek, he nonetheless expected nothing but perfection from his people.

[Anonymous No.23106788]

>>23106640
In Greece there is people who consider plato a kind of "anti-greek" philosopher, as he went against the common ideas of his time (basically ideas from actually greek society) to formulate his own created ideas.
So you could indeed say that Plato's thinking was a kind of opposite of ancient greece.

[Anonymous No.23106795]

Meanwhile he sucked off Jews...Lewis, Chesterton and Tolkien were kind of mental midgets.

[Anonymous No.23106801]

>>23106787
Exactly.
It's like plato was glad to be born greek but not proud.
He was a perfectionist that expected more from his people, and developed his own unique ideas because of that.
So plato was greek, technically, yes, but he was also not greek in some ways, like his thinking differed from common greek ideas.

[Anonymous No.23106802]

>>23106531
nah he loved the Spanish and liked Italy

[Anonymous No.23106839]

>>23106802
He never gave specific opinions on specific nations. Unless you can provide sources

[Anonymous No.23106847]

>>23106501
Hellenism upbringing

No wonder he became a good writer

[Anonymous No.23106850]

>>23106839
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_influences_on_Tolkien

>Many years later, he wrote: "It was like discovering a complete wine-cellar filled with bottles of an amazing wine of a kind and flavour never tasted before. It quite intoxicated me.

He was definitely a Fennomaniac obsessed with Finland.

[Anonymous No.23106862]

>hates Greeks
>hates shakespeare
>probably too conservative for Milton
Wtf was his problem

[Anonymous No.23106870]

common anglo L

[Anonymous No.23106878]

>>23106531
>hated meds
>was a Catholic
ok

[Anonymous No.23106880]

>>23106795
Where did he suck off jews?

[Anonymous No.23106889]

>>23106880
https://www.quora.com/Was-J-R-R-Tolkien-really-anti-Semitic
https://www.jstor.org/stable/45320162

[Anonymous No.23106891]

>>23106501
>muh womuh

[Anonymous No.23106894]

>>23106878
God is an objective fact to him. Your post is like saying you can't believe in gravity and hate the English

[Anonymous No.23106972]

>>23106501
That's an intelligent take, actually. The Greeks have many flaws, but they're impressive regardless. Do you have a collection of his letters or something? That would be an interesting read.

[Anonymous No.23106983]

>>23106781
>What is he talking about ?
Their problematic mysogyny.

[Anonymous No.23106998]

>>23106983
What is problematic in their misogyny ?

[Anonymous No.23107012]

>>23106998
Women being prohibited from leaving the house, voting, and attending most festivals. Not to mention issues that we still have today like rape and abuse in marriages, and dowry.

[Anonymous No.23107013]

>>23106532
Kek! This is COPE of a high order. Everyone knows Tolkien was inspired by Scandis, but to say that neither the Bible nor Plato come close is a retard's endeavor. Cope takes on so many forms on this site--and it is usually aryan larpists doing it.

[Anonymous No.23107016]

>>23106788
>he went against the common ideas of his time (basically ideas from actually greek society) to formulate his own created ideas
Isn't that what Socrates did too, though?

[Anonymous No.23107019]

>>23107012
>Women being prohibited from leaving the house, voting, and attending most festivals
That's just good policy. Tolkien sounds like a cuck.

[Anonymous No.23107024]

>>23107016
Yes.
Socrates also did that.
What im referring, is that the pre-socratics are considered the actual Greek cultural thought in Greece while post Socrates is something new, specialy with plato, like i said he went against the common ideas of the time, he and Socrates are pretty related too, as plato uses him in his dialogs, so indeed Socrates also did that.
Do you understand now?
I hope i explained it well enough.

[Anonymous No.23107031]

>>23107013
>Everyone knows
Certain phrases immediately expose you as a redditor. Go back.

[Anonymous No.23107061]

>>23107031
>le Redditor is everywhere!
No. Sorry. Try another cope. Maybe adding a THIRD LAYER will do the trick.

[Anonymous No.23107145]

>>23106531
I don't think so. He liked the Spanish language, was Catholic, liked the Latin mass.

[Anonymous No.23107149]

>>23106894
Catholicism is Med culture.

[Anonymous No.23107236]

>>23107012
>prohibited from leaving the house
Appearently it was a custom, and a question of reputation. Why would you specifically blame men for this ? What makes you always think it's them who enforced this, not also women between themselves, out of fashion, custom, values, jealousy,...
Just like another examples, the british people telling indian wife get burned with their deceased husband (and are thus oppressed), when in fact it was a practice most people (and men) warned against (in the text we have about it), and that it was volontarily and spontaneously, out of love and a concept of self-sacrifice, that women did that. It's just like if 100 years from now people started saying women in our societies were forced by men to dress sexually, and with unnatural and unpractical clothes, having a misogynistic "outlook" (something very nebulous of course). I tried using an imaginary example, but in fact it does exist. Women blame men for "unpractical" outfits they make them wear, after blaming them for stopping them from wearing them. In 100 years women will blame men for forcing the idea of hook ups and contraception, thus using the female body without giving a baby and without committment. They might blame men for abortion, or for shaming housewifes. Don't you see men force their wife to work now ? Unlike in ancient greece, women now are forced to not stay inside.
Feminism is axiomatic circular reasonning, everything - A or non-A - returns back to blaming men, however it is, whatever the logic/values/culture/... But at least feminist and machist agree on this point : Women have been and are still slaves and irresponsible, the men holds all the responsibility, they even are the ones people have to nagg into making women responsible and free (thus still they are responsible of all the women's choices).
I could take all your point and argue to the opposite of what you said, that they show men were forced to leave the house to do various things, forced to vote/fight and have heavy responsabilities in the city, had to go to most religious festivals (wouldn't a feminist also find religion, and this patriarcal religion, borring ?). That men had to deserve a dowry, thus having to work more before, or after, just to make up for that, while the women had a bonus given to them as an additional value helping them to get married and get a good mariage. Rape is just a crime.
Like with sociology and statistics (most of "academic" feminism), it all depends on the ideology and interpretation : the facts you study, the causes you see for them,... feminism is just an ideology of women victimhood, and with intersectionality, of any type of victimhood in contrast to the de-christianised yet subconciously protesto-catholic western degenerate culture. Thus feminism is just an ideology of a certain subversion to a certain culture. According to it, the weak, and the lesser one has to be the victim.
I'm wasting time arguing with a women, or a feminist, sorry.

[Anonymous No.23107308]

>>23107236
Feminism is at the social level, like an unhappy women blaming and manipulating her husband in the domestic sphere. Feminism isn't even an ideology but a subversion of a certain culture. Like for women in regard to men, it's always a relative being, a parasitic entity. Thus it has no being, just like a shadow tormenting the culture it sets into, blaming any possible order, simply coming from the spirit of subvertion.
It is like physically blaming the man standing in front of the sun for standing and stepping on his shadow, however he might position himself. Whatever the order may be, the shadow will always be bellow and in the back of men who look towards the light and stand with their head above, according to the natural order needed to live. The identification of that idea of feminist parasitism with the traditional symbol of shadows like in Plato's cave is evident. But people will blame him for saying the shadow, and the forms, are not equal to the pure light outside of the cave. In fact in this story indeed people kill the messager who returns back (exactly as it happened for Christ)

[Anonymous No.23107315]

>>23106501
>in which we was brought up
>revolting attitude to women

[Anonymous No.23107326]

>>23106802
>>23107145
Med cope

[Anonymous No.23107331]

>>23107326
Tolkien himself said it in his letters, Sven.

[Anonymous No.23107334]

>>23106501
WTF I love Tolkien now

[Anonymous No.23107483]

>>23106795
Jewish degeneracy wasn't as evident back then. I'm sure if he were alive today, his opinion on Jews would be different

[Anonymous No.23107505]

>>23106795
Grow up.

[Anonymous No.23107528]

>>23107505
>defend jews
>they pervert your life's work by filling it with niggers
well-earned

[Anonymous No.23107551]

>>23107505
Not convincing me otherwise with that.

[Anonymous No.23107560]

>>23107528
>>23107551
Retard

[Anonymous No.23107569]

>>23107560
Cry more fake tears

[Anonymous No.23107572]

>>23106501
Fake and gay quote

I know you're better than this /lit/

[Anonymous No.23107578]

>>23107551
Jews are truly the most evil creatures ever. I saw this photo of a little girl hung up in some destroyed building, completely unrecognizable. Vile, Satanic beings they are.

[Anonymous No.23107594]

>>23107560
>no rebuttal
I accept your full and unconditional surrender.

[Anonymous No.23107676]

>>23107024
I don't think the Pre-Socratics were more representative, they tended to reject Homer and Hesiod. If anything, I'd think the tragic and comic playwrights and orators give us a firmer sense of the overall opinions of at least the Athenian enfranchised classes, since they had to appeal t normative opinions to win contests and court cases; the lyric poets tend to represent the aristocrats and olgarchs; and you can get a more across-the-board view of beliefs in Herodotus, Thucydides, and Xenophon.

[Anonymous No.23107714]

>>23107676
Ok.
Fair enough.
Still, my point here is that we shouldn't just think of Plato or Socrates as "purely greek" when they did go in fact, against the current cult of their time.
But i agree now thinking about it, pre-socratics are also not that representative of that.
So i agree with you herodotus Thucydides, and Xenophon are more representative of that.
Still, my point was that nobody should think of Plato or Socrates as just 100% greek when they don't really represent the culture of their time (that's why i said they were something new) and should be seen as new infusion of ideas in greek society with some ideas taken from it.
That's a better way to think about them.

[Anonymous No.23107740]

>>23107714
I agree with you completely there, Socrates and Plato rejected a lot of the overarching values of Athens in particular, and the Greeks in general.

[Anonymous No.23107754]

>>23107740
I was saying that because tolkien in op's image refered as plato as 100% hellenic, so he fell into that same trap.
Just so you understand why i said all of this.
That's what started it.

[Anonymous No.23107771]

>>23107754
Yep, we're in agreement on that.

[Anonymous No.23107844]

>>23106532
classic finnish post desu
on a serious note, elvish language was highly influenced by latin which is acknowledged by tolkien. there is influence from finnish but one that is overstated as it is more exotic to the immensely important latin which would be an influence on almost any fictional magical language. when it comes to bible, he took a lot, one example is sauron being a fallen demi god like lucifer.

[Anonymous No.23108203]

>>23106850
The man taught himself Finnish in the middle of his exams for Cambridge, Fennomaniac is an understatement.

[Anonymous No.23108211]

>>23106501
Lmao what a fag

[Anonymous No.23108217]

>>23106501
based. gayreeks were a slog.

[Anonymous No.23108236]

>>23106501
>how inspired he was by them
how was he so inspired by them exactly?

[Anonymous No.23108263]

>>23106678
thats literally just a bunch of vague tropes that are virtually perennial in nature and o not in any way indicate that he was inspired at all by the greeks

[Elliot's Husband No.23108372]

>>23106532
Children of Húrin especially shows how much he was influenced by Kalavela.

[Anonymous No.23108376]

>>23108236
The ring from LOTR is the ring of Gyges from the republic - ring which makes you invisible and inevitably turns you to the path of evil

[Anonymous No.23108381]

Tie-breaking round for /lit/'s favorite children's books. Vote here :

https://forms.gle/QuSzQ6KgfGSex9uq7

Related thread: >>23108191

[Anonymous No.23108425]

>>23106532
>Only the Finnish myths
>Only
This is plain and simple completely incorrect and frankly the claim of a stupid person.

[Anonymous No.23108433]

>>23107505
>round jews up and remove them from all positions of cultural and financial influence in your society
>become a superpower on the verge of conquering the entire planet almost overnight
>not even the first time this has happened in history, in fact there are several examples.
>them jewbois dindu nuffin they was just scapegoats!

[Anonymous No.23108455]

>>23107505
>make big deal about Germany would destroy British culture, language, and people
>win against Germany
>fuck over own country harder than the Germans could ever hope to achieve
Embarassing.

[Anonymous No.23108463]

>>23106501
You can find this view of the Greeks from reading the Greeks though, they admit it themselves and it wasn't a secret

[Anonymous No.23108519]

>>23106501
>The Ancient Greeks were for all their talents, a very nasty people of degraded habits
Says the nigga who's oldest son molested altar boys.

[Anonymous No.23108524]

>>23108519
source?

[Anonymous No.23108586]

>>23108524
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tolkien_(priest)
Sorry if this ruins Tolkien for you, anon. I'm a Tolkien fan and a Catholic myself, but I'm also an ethnic med and loather of this kind of hypocritical smugness only the Anglos seem to be capable of.

[Anonymous No.23108623]

>>23108586
:(

[Anonymous No.23109002]

>>23108586
how is it hypocrisy? that doesnt make any sense.

[Anonymous No.23109056]

what is greek in LOTR? numenor is all I can think of
most of it is based on the poetic edda (bray edition, which would have been familiar to tolkien) beowulf, anglo saxon mythology and medieval christian catholic culture. he used the former as foundational setting stuff and world-building material and the latter to direct the plot and character drama. in the books the gondorians are aesthetically described more like medieval britain than their 'greek' look in the movies

[Anonymous No.23109092]

>>23106795
It's how ironic how tolkien praised for jews for high culture and nobility while simultaneously fearing globalization and the idea of cultures and tongues smelting into one grotesque mess. If only he knew the jews would be driving the latter.

[Anonymous No.23109737]

>>23109056
>most of it is based on the poetic edda (bray edition, which would have been familiar to tolkien) beowulf, anglo saxon mythology and medieval christian catholic culture.

Not really. Tolkien himself denied these influences, however, the Finnish myths and Kalevala was his "main influence" as quoted by him numerous times. See these posts:

>>23106532
>>23106850


And this wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_influences_on_Tolkien

It's kinda sad/intentional that you don't mention the Finns or Kalevala when Tolkien himself in his own letters and in person admitted that the Finns and their myths were the chiefest influence of all for him, even more than Bible. Yet you just repeat beowulf, eddas that have little to no reference in regards to Tolkien, unlike Kalevala (which he literally studied and translated in his youth)

[Anonymous No.23109778]

>>23106795
>t. mental midget

[Anonymous No.23109789]

>>23109056
>>23109737
I think both of you are forgetting a little something.

[Anonymous No.23109794]

>>23108586
Yikes! Disgraceful.

[Anonymous No.23109835]

>>23109789
Why we don't have actual quotes of Tolkien saying "Nibelung inspired me"?

We have actual quotes of Tolkien from his letters which say:
>>[The Kalevala was] “the original germ of the Silmarillion” (Tolkien Letters, 87)

Yet you just try to say "I know better than Professor Tolkien" and go undermine the influence of Kalevala that was the main inspiration for Tolkien to write his own myths? The very first book Tolkien wrote was the Story of Kullervo from Kalevala, a mere translation into English

[Anonymous No.23109842]

Why Tolkien did not translate any other world myths into English? Only the Kalevala of the Finns was something that Tolkien translated into English, he did not seem to put much importance on other myths like the Eddas or even see it as a worthwhile endeavor to translate them. Why is that?

Pic related, the very first book Tolkien ever wrote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kullervo

[Anonymous No.23109850]

>>23109835
I'm not undermining Kalevala's influence, Samu. I'm amplifying Nibelung's. Does he really need to say it explicitly? LMAO his most famous book is about a magic ring. Hellooo

[Anonymous No.23109856]

>>23109842
>Why Tolkien did not translate any other world myths into English?
He translated Beowulf, Gawain and the Green Knight, Pearl and Sir Orfeo, portions of the Bible.

[Anonymous No.23109859]

>>23109850
Silmarillion, more than anything, is 90% Finnish influence and basically the retelling of the heroic deeds of the Kalevala heroes in high fantasy setting

Like there was three Silmarils, the Kalevala's Sampo has/had three qualities. Both are stolen/claimed by the forces of North. Melkor in Silmarillion, Louhi in Kalevala.

Both are stolen back by Enchantment. Luthién sings Melkor and whole Angband to sleep with her song and Beren steals the Silmarils back: In Kalevala Väinämöinen sings the song of enchantment and the whole forces of North fall sleep and the heroes steal the Sampo back

Both the Silmarils are lost/scattered around the world and thrown into sea, just like the North awakes and pursue ensues (just like in Silmarillion), Sampo is scattered to the sea/around the world, so in the end nobody possesses them

The magical Sampo (as the Silmarils were forged by great craftsman Fëanor, so was the Sampo forged by great craftsman and blacksmith Ilmarinen of which the word "Ilmen" of Arda derives from)

Silmarillion, more than anything, is 90% Finnish influence and basically the retelling of the heroic deeds of the Kalevala heroes in high fantasy setting

Bachelor’s Seminar and Thesis
English Philology

Researching J.R.R. Tolkien:
How Kalevala influenced his legendarium
http://jultika.oulu.fi/files/nbnfioulu-201804201498.pdf

https://jyx.jyu.fi/bitstream/handle/123456789/41456/URN-NBN-fi-jyu-201305151681.pdf;sequ
J.R.R. Tolkien’s Land of Heroes–
Fëanor, a tragic hero of Middle-Earth in
comparison to Seppo Ilmarinen from the Kalevala

University of Jyväskylä
Department of Languages
English

What J.R.R. Tolkien Really Did with the Sampo?
Jonathan B. Himes
https://dc.swosu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1342&context=mythlore

+numerous other academic studies.

Respect the Finns. Don't read the Eddas or other "Northern European" folk tales, they have little to no relevance to Tolkien's world. Kalevala does have relevance as Tolkien's whole Arda is based on them. Even the main God "Eru Iluvatar" shares the -Tar suffix with Finnish Gods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmatar

Even the Gods of Tolkien are literally Finnish gods. Not concerned with the Eddas or Indo-European Gods or even the Abrahamic gods, but sharing their common names with the Finnish Gods such as Ilmatar.

[Anonymous No.23109862]

>>23109856
Very small influence. We could say Tolkien's world is 95% Finnish influence and rest of the 5% come from other European folk tales and Bible. But very little relevance when compared to the chief Finnish influence, almost irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.23109866]

>>23109859
>Even the Gods of Tolkien are literally Finnish gods. Not concerned with the Eddas or Indo-European Gods or even the Abrahamic gods, but sharing their common names with the Finnish Gods such as Ilmatar.
Eru Ilúvatar is the Christian God.

[Anonymous No.23109867]

>>23109862
>Very small influence.
You're moving the goalposts. The original topic was translations.
>We could say Tolkien's world is 95% Finnish influence and rest of the 5% come from other European folk tales and Bible. But very little relevance when compared to the chief Finnish influence, almost irrelevant.
I agree. He ripped of Finnish myths with impunity. And worse, he domesticated them for young Anglo audience.

[Anonymous No.23109869]

>>23109866
Not really. The very aether of Arda is the word "Ilmen" and it derives from the Finnish word for Ilma (Air) https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Ilmen

Eru Iluvatar is clearly reference to Finnish creator goddess Ilmatar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmatar

Little no reference to Abrahamic god, but to the creator-like Sophia Ilmatar of which the word Ilmen of Arda derives from.

[Anonymous No.23109874]

>>23109869
Tolkien literally said it's the equivalent of the Christian God.

[Anonymous No.23109875]

>>23109867
>And worse, he domesticated them for young Anglo audience.

Tolkien infantilized world myths and added infantile elements such as goblins, dwarves, hobbits, bobbits and whatnot. He could not accept or understand pagan religion and folklore as it is. He disregarded actual myth and timeless wisdom in exchange for infantile elements (dwarves, goblins, tam bambadillo etc.).

In the European pagan system any natural object possessed not only its material characteristics, but was a manifestation of a more or less tangible idea on which it depended. The Pool was a pool, true; but also there was a nymph or water elemental whose home it was. In her turn, the pool's inhabitant was dependent on a superior kind of nymph, who was much less closely attached to any given pool, but more to pools in general.

Tolkien infantilized all of this and made them seem like some merry little creatures having teatime and biscuits and whose sole existence was dependent on being merry little woodland critters.

And thus the whole work of Tolkien is filled with miscalculations and Christian superstitious dogmatism when trying to "unlock" and "understand" folklore of ancient Europe. Then you end up with Tolkien self-inserting characteristics to elementals and inhabitants of the earth element (gnomes), who in the folklore were laborious and patient, and they become the hideous infantile dwarves of Tolkien, who are now chiefly concerned with grossness and avarice.

>Ui! Let me sing the song of my race! And then we have jolly tea and biscuits with my Bobbity-Hobbity Fellows! Bim Bom Jolly Tom! Dildo Bambadello!

[Anonymous No.23109877]

>>23109874
Why did he add the -Tar suffix then if it was Christian God? It is Eru IluvaTAR

Only Finnish gods have -TAR suffix. Clearly not abrah

[Anonymous No.23109953]

>>23106501
He dislikes some aspects and likes other aspects. How is that hard to understand? Are you mentally retarded?

[Anonymous No.23109982]

>>23106501
He's describing the influence on the Greeks of filthy Meds. It's only natural that a barbarian feels superior. Yes the Greeks were the civilization par excellence, but they weren't and aren't the only people capable of thinking. You see the brilliant mind of the Celt and Germ just as soon as they were induced to start writing things down.

[Anonymous No.23109987]

>>23106501
>such as Plato [a boxer]

"Nation of shopkeeps." indeed.

[Anonymous No.23109990]

>>23109982
I remember he said something like how he would've rather been a Germanic tribesman than a Roman citizen because of the freedom.

[Anonymous No.23110082]

/// He liked to fulminate over moral depravity and the decline of traditional family life /// A stone mason was employed to engrave the following epitaph on a tradesman's wife: "A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband" /// The sudden onset of rain caught everyone by surprise, and people scrambled for cover /// Yes, certainly the happy ending necessarily doesn't mean that, you know, everybody goes prancing in the sunlight and dancing /// Law, in his view, to be law at all must at a minimum comport with certain norms: regularity, publicity, clarity, stability /// Alex was the cryptonym for Colonel Oleg Vladimirovich Penkovsky of the GRU, a man who had provided the British and American intelligence services with information beyond price /// The senator has gotten into hot water with constituents over his callous remarks /// They slunk away a few minutes later, looking significantly less cocky /// With poetry, as with going to sea, we should push from the shore and reach a certain elevation before we unfurl all our sails /// The Iowa caucuses get a lot of attention during the presidential primary season ///After he was misquoted in the interview, he knew he would have to run the gauntlet of his colleagues' anger /// We want you to give us the lowdown on your teammates /// Your glum mood can rub off on those around you /// The report states that vandalism is a pestilence that must be stamped out /// I spent the night scrunched (up) in the back of the car /// The killer acted without fear of retribution /// The café is a fun, casual spot, great for a pop-in after work with friends ///

[Anonymous No.23110121]

>>23106501
the only people who care about tolkien are weirdos obsessed with pop culture and catholics trying to appeal to said weirdos

[Anonymous No.23110142]

>>23107012
I don't think he's referring to stuff like voting. He's just considering it with a Christian lens, in which a wife should be loved and not seen as a malevolent vessel for only carrying children. The Greeks fetishized men, male on male love, brotherly love, great male leaders, and looked down upon women not even simply as their household servants but as a wicked sex who burdened men. And they of course defiled the sacred natural sexual bond between man and woman.

[Anonymous No.23110147]

>>23110142
True. Didn't that faggot Aristotle say that women were just ugly and malformed men or something? Most homosexual thing I've ever read. Basically begging for cock.

[Anonymous No.23110151]

>>23110142
Early Christian writers were mean to women as well.

[Anonymous No.23110157]

>>23110151
And what's your point

[Anonymous No.23110169]

>>23110147
He was right though. Women are shorter, weaker, have lower bone density etc.

[Anonymous No.23110176]

>>23110169
They're not ugly or malformed, though. They've a different nature from men. Judging women as if they were men is something only a homosexual would do.

[Anonymous No.23110184]

>>23110147
>>23110176
I believe the apparent great amount of homosexuality in ancient Greece really stems from the great amount of misogyny, not the other way around. But yes, they're related.

[Anonymous No.23110186]

>>23110176
Weakness is ugly, we only refuse to accept this because we don't live in a warrior culture. I'd say that refusing to judge women as if they were men is something only an autogynephile would do.

[Anonymous No.23110192]

>>23110176
The point is to judge women as though you were observing an animal of a different species, unclouded by sensuality.

[Anonymous No.23110195]

>>23110186
Ah, you're some kind of retarded BAPist. Never mind. Not wasting my time with that homosexual cult.

[Anonymous No.23110199]

>>23110195
It's okay, good luck with your transition sis

[Anonymous No.23110200]

>>23110192
So asexuality.

[Anonymous No.23110204]

>>23110199
I knew it. Go back.

[Anonymous No.23110211]

>>23110200
No, it's just an aesthetic judgement that has nothing to do with sexuality. When you say tigers are beautiful that's not zoophilia.

[Anonymous No.23110286]

>>23108586
How does that change what he said about Greeks? Curious how morality works in your mind.

[Anonymous No.23110290]

>>23110211
But you're not a tiger, though. You're a human judging another human. Biases are transparent and it's different from a transpecies judgment.

[Anonymous No.23110295]

>>23110290
If you can't ignore your sex drive for a minute you might just be a beast.

[Anonymous No.23110343]

>>23106795
>>23106889
So because he wasn't antisemitic, he "sucked off jews". Makes sense, yeah, got it.

[Anonymous No.23110349]

>>23106787
>>23106788
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.23110403]

>>23108455
Tolkien spoke out against globalization and praised the nobility of the jewish people. Ironically it was the latter driving the former.

[Anonymous No.23110429]

Didn't he study classics but drop out? Is it just cope

[Anonymous No.23110440]

>>23109850
A magic ring making you invisible comes straight up from Plato. The theme is popular enough to be found in later stories through Europe like Yvain le Chevalier au Lion. However I have to agree that the Nibelungen was a major influence. The other Anon is asking for a quote? Tolkien wrote an entire book about it, the legend of Sigurd and Gudrun. I would say that it qualifies.

[Anonymous No.23110474]

>>23106501
If you read Plato, you would hate Socrates too.

[Anonymous No.23110547]

>>23107019
LMAO, I love how a happily married Catholic with three children is being called a cuck by...an angry, obese atheistic incel on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.23110557]

>>23110547
catholics support a pedophilic cult because they're sexually repressed. not exactly the kind of people who can make fun of fat incels

[Anonymous No.23110572]

>>23106501
This is one of the takes by Tolkein I absolutely respect, which is a first. Fuck the gayreeks

[Anonymous No.23110783]

>>23106532
The Finns invented the Greek word for Being and thus invented philosophy. "Ta onta" literally comes from the "forging of the Sampo" which is: Sammon taonta. It also makes sense from the perspective of the metallurgical connection to bronze-smithing.

[Anonymous No.23110912]

>>23109835
You are either retarded or ignorant. Germanic, namely Anglosaxon, texts were clearly his forte and the most influential.

[Anonymous No.23112084]

>>23106501
Hellenism and the Ancient Greeks are different things, stick to young adult fiction

[Anonymous No.23112099]

>>23110783
Greek philosophy comes from that crappy b movie they showed on mst3k?

[Anonymous No.23112158]

>>23106531
I thought for a minute you are implying he was a schizo refusing to take his meds and this was the result of that, then I got it

[Anonymous No.23112180]

>>23106507
Based

[Anonymous No.23112195]

>>23107031
The mentality of an ESL who's only exposure to English has been online. Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.23112200]

>>23110403
>>23108455
Should've listened to Pound.

[Anonymous No.23112205]

>>23106501
I've never read this letter before but this perfectly embodies Tolkien: an abnormally insightful comment watered down with his personal eccentricity and a drop of libtardism. He did think Greek was a lovely language, by the way.

[Anonymous No.23112305]

>>23112195
The older I get the more I hate ESLs

[Anonymous No.23112469]

>>23106862
He hated Shakespeare? I knew he didn't like the prophecies of Macbeth, but I never knew he hated Shakespeare.

[Anonymous No.23112558]

>>23106862
He was a contrarian. This board should like him more.

[Anonymous No.23113383]

>>23110142
>He's just considering it with a Christian lens, in which a wife should be loved and not seen as a malevolent vessel for only carrying children.
Christians are quite literally responsible for destroying the proper kind of love and admiration of women that Europeans had.

Aphrodite was also worshipped as a war god by the Spartans btw

[Anonymous No.23113386]

>>23110195
BDS

[Anonymous No.23113395]

>>23113383
Funny that some anons here accuse Christians of larping when you have people like this. Nothing is more of a larp than pagans.

[Anonymous No.23113400]

>>23113383
What's funny is that Italian women are killing Italy because they refuse to pop out kids. So that passage makes him look like an imbecilic simp.

[Anonymous No.23113402]

>>23113395
not an argument, christnigger

[Anonymous No.23113414]

>>23113402
I was already aware I responded to someone unintelligent.

[Anonymous No.23113422]

>>23113414
>christcuck continues to make ad hominems instead of addressing the matter at hand
>>23113400
that's fair

[Anonymous No.23113887]

>>23107236
>n 100 years women will blame men for forcing the idea of hook ups and contraception, thus using the female body without giving a baby and without committment.
Lel I have seen radfems do exactly this.