Philosophy of education

[Anonymous No.23104168]

Looking for recs, seeking reading material on the philosophy of education.

Interested in reading about the methodology and curriculum of alternative education approaches, including both the epistemology and philosophy behind them. I'm open to looking into anything that is an improvement upon what is currently widely implemented in the United States. Read Steiner's stuff on Anthroposophy and Waldorf education and was very intrigued; interested in similar concepts which may be reasonably compatible with the following values:

>Antireductionism
>Training for high openness
>Near complete expungement of standardized testing, having much higher standards for understanding/comprehension on assessments, emphasis on open-response and authentic assessment
>The primary beneficiary being the individual being educated, as opposed the society which has this individual as its member
>Ability grouping/age desegregation; promoting the interests of students pursuing accelerated courses of study by putting less importance on universal limitations
>Eclecticism, experimentation, interdisciplinarity, intellectual curiosity. Training for polymaths and bringing back childhood excellence
>Experiential and active learning, integration of the design process (especially in STEM)
>The creation of well-rounded individuals: "balanced development of cognitive, affective/artistic, and practical skills"
>Highly individuated teaching methods, allowing instructors more creative liberty in how they deliver their teachings

I stand to be corrected in the case that I find any superior approaches to the ones I listed. I really just need something better than the default, I'm grasping for straws here. Fuck public schools. Give me literally anything else.
As an aside, in the hypothetical scenario in which the USA privatized education, I'm unsure what the solution would be to the creation of another vested interest group: the private owners of the schools, who just as well could work against the academic outcomes of their students if it means lobbying hard for their interests.

>t. an American who fucking despises the inefficient and stifling common core curricula, and wants to completely privatize education.

[Anonymous No.23104235]

Based and dadpilled thread. I hope you get some good recommendations, I also want to read more about methods of education.

[Anonymous No.23104313]

Take a look at what created the philosophers, orators, emperors, conquerors, literary geniuses, and in general the great men of the past.
Just a few points:
>Sound mind in a sound body, physical education is non negotiable.
>Bathe him in good epic poetry, fables and lyric poems since birth.
>Make him part of a chorus, too much to explain, just read the book.
>Grammar, logic and rhetoric should be the pillars of his education, with the proper books serving as a base, i.e. Latin Grammar, Organon, Quintilian, Cicero; and not the meme modern books often shilled in charts.
>A proper moral education, don't focus on the modern twist of "education is for getting a job", education is to create greatness in the student. Starting from the most basic thing: Children learn from imitating the others around them, primarily their parents. Be a great person and you have the first step. The selection of the poems and literary works talked above are also important to instill the proper values by literary examples since young. More deep work can be done later with Cicero's On Duty and Aristotle's Ethics.

[Anonymous No.23104433]

>>23104313
>>23104235
As a femanon there is nothing hotter than this. Men wanting to raise a baby and give it the best education. I wish you all the best

[Anonymous No.23104446]

>>23104433
I don't care what you think, woman.

[Anonymous No.23104471]

>>23104168
Not exactly what you’re looking for, but maybe closer than expected: Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto. It’s halfway between a memoir and a history lesson. Just a very talented educator talking about what works and why the current system is completely broken.

[Anonymous No.23104482]

>>23104446
Good just saying it’s hot

[Anonymous No.23104486]

>>23104168
Renewing the Mind: A Reader in the Philosophy of Catholic Education and St Augustine both by Ryan Topping.
The Great Tradition: Classic Readings on What It Means to Be an Educated Human Being edited by Richard Gamble.

[Anonymous No.23104507]

Emile perverti

[Anonymous No.23104518]

>>23104168
just read emile

[Anonymous No.23104579]

>>23104313
>Take a look at what created the philosophers, orators, emperors, conquerors, literary geniuses, and in general the great men of the past.
This article advocates that part of it is that we stopped having kids tutored and started sending them to school instead, it's an interesting read
https://www.theintrinsicperspective.com/p/why-we-stopped-making-einsteins

[Anonymous No.23104586]

Does anyone know of a good history of the Great Books tradition?

[Anonymous No.23104755]

Material like this >>23104313 is something I was looking for and appreciate as well. A lot of my disdain with the school system has to do with the fact that many of its problems seemed to have been manufactured entirely in the past century or two, almost beyond the point of reasonably salvaging, and that there's been a sharp decline in competence among the common man. Even the normies have started to notice, you see them post these doomer-like videos about how gen alpha is a lost generation with no attention span. These antiquated ethics are something worth conserving and reviving: the issue is trying to *recreate* the conditions that created "philosophers, orators, emperors, conquerors, literary geniuses" from 1000 B.C to A.D. 500 in 2024. https://archived.moe/lit/thread/21815799/#21815806 "All you have to do is get rid of the actively deleterious factors like degenerate media and smartphones and you could have 19th century levels of intelligence and achievement..."
To really get the desired effect you need a strict adherence to the philosophy, internally and also outside of school. It's partially political, because what I wrote in OP is mostly just me thinking idealistically. The idealism need to be grounded a bit, and polished into something that pragmatically can actually be executed. All the
>deleterious factors
Are in reality, much harder to neutralize, unless you want to live a very ascetic and dissenting lifestyle (which is of course possible, but difficult and impractical in some ways) That being said, for these ideas to actually be of use there needs to be a means to realize them. I agree that "education is for getting a job" is a poisonous approach but I still want my progeny to be able to survive and prosper. I could homeschool him entirely based off of these old teachings, but the reality is his education wouldn't be accredited. If he wanted to get into a college, he'd probably have to do something like take the SAT & ACT anyways, which completely undermines the "expungement of standardized testing" ideal. Then there is the issue that if chooses to not go to college; with zero accredited education, it'd be difficult for him to find work, which he needs to buy his freedom. Hence the OP meme "these are your TWO alternative schooling options." There's not much else. As soon as he leaves the world I've created for him, he'll find himself practically incompatible with the outside. The old philosophy is useful but needs to be paired with new solutions to make it work, to find out exactly where these ideas can be executed. That's where (in unison) something contemporary like >>23104471 works to fill these gaps. Much of the trad stuff is incompatible in many ways with modern limitations, so curating such a distinct lifestyle (which is actually possible) takes a bit of ethical and practical transliteration; configuration and adapting.

[Anonymous No.23104761]

>>23104755
If we were to truly and thoroughly avoid all these "deleterious factors" that prevent young people from prospering, self-actualizing, and achieving excellence, the only option is to become an "inwardly-free individual who lives quietly and dispassionately within but not of society and the world." True freedom cannot be found in the political systems and institutions we have. I don't know exactly where that niche is in real life, but it's easier to find one than make one. That's what this thread is about. The sticking point is independent schools account for... literally 1% of the school-age population. The other options are a semi-public school like a charter, or something parochial. The lack of options is very limiting, but I've yet to find any more solid alternatives that are any less like shoving a square peg into a round hole.

And as an aside, optimally, I don't want my son to *have* to be an anarch. I want these values to be fully realized. The ideal situation is not for my son to prosper only after being forced to remove himself from society, but to be able to exist in a society that is actually prosperous. Mass-scale privatization in the U.S. is something I want to genuinely see. Unfortunately, this seems very hard to fully realize due to a lot of legal, political, and fiscal inhibitions, so an anarch he must become. It's more realistic to create a bubble than to reverse 200 years of education deform.

[Anonymous No.23104851]

>which set of autistic 19th-century education systems that were created by people who believed in crystal healing, bizarre pseudoplatonic cosmologies, and atlantis should i indoctrinate my child with?
The simple fact is this: children will perform better when they are engaged with by people who are trying to educate them. Modern public school is for keeping Negro and Nafri children contained so that they don't go out and commit crime, not about education.

Whichever set of dedicated weirdos that you end up giving your children to will produce a better quality of education because they give a shit about stuffing your kid's full of Montessori's weird Catholic fetish theology or Steiner's stuff about the descent of the soul, and they need your kid to be smart in order to get that stuff.

Your child is, or will be, an independent person and not just an ideological accessory. You cannot control them, you can only point them in the right direction so that they grow such that their potential is maximized. Short of physically disfiguring them or refusing to teach them language there is very little that cannot be corrected given enough time and dedication.

[Anonymous No.23105574]

>>23104471
In this same vein, I highly recommend anything by John Taylor Gatto, or John Holt. Also, Free to Learn by Peter Gray (even though there's one chapter of the book that is absolute shit, you'll know the one). Gatto especially will help show you that school cannot be fixed. If you wish to give your children a good education, you should not just leave public school, but distance yourself from all the trappings of compulsory education. The biggest thing you have to understand is that anything you force your child to do will be ultimately forgotten - or, even worse, rebelled against directly. Let's say you want your son to read the classics. The best way is to read them yourself, somewhere he can see you do it. The worst way is to make him read them.

Most of us would despise being forced to read some shit against our will, regardless of how "good" the person making us read it says it is. Children are human beings, believe it or not. They react the same way anyone does when you take their will away. We do this to our children because we believe we have to, that they would be helpless without an "education." Reading Gatto, Holt and Gray will help show that 1: what children get today as "education" is worse than worthless, and the vast majority of it is forgotten, and 2: that men who grew up before compulsory education, or grow up outside of schooling, are typically more capable, not less.

[Anonymous No.23105675]

>>23104313
Much of the old educational material is severely out of date, redundant (i.e. scholastic nonsense), and now useless (i.e. learning Latin when it is no longer a universal language).

[Anonymous No.23105702]

>1: what children get today as "education" is worse than worthless, and the vast majority of it is forgotten
The discipline to memorize is also a crucial part of learning, especially in the beginning. Ask any self-diagnosed genius (who just happens to be lazy, that's all, otherwise he'll like uh totally make it man like totally) and he'll still be salty he had to learn differential equations and US history when none of that really matters in "real life" (flipping burgers). Really there's nothing stopping you from pursuing your own interests once you actually start being able to. Nothing stopping you from raising your own kids instead of having the state/private school do it entirely for you.

>2: that men who grew up before compulsory education, or grow up outside of schooling, are typically more capable, not less.
At sweeping streets definitely, that's why Juan excels at it. Just because we remember a couple of gifted/well-natured individuals who made do without education for various reasons doesn't mean that's in any way a rule. How does this not sound like the ramblings of a bitter child with authority issues? How can you even take seriously someone who claims compulsory education is a bad thing, have you ever even seen a child? Would you also let him decide what he wants to eat (it won't be just candy, definitely) because being yours he'll be way smarter than the rest?

[Anonymous No.23105712]

>>23104579
To your link, I'd respond that the title of genius is no longer given out to artists because no medium of art is seen as high culture anymore, and so there is a ceiling that bars anyone from reaching that title. The title "genius" is only given to those proficient in a medium without such a ceiling. For instance, mathematics and physics are still seen as a high culture to an extent, so in those fields you still find people with full seriousness lauded as genius (e.g. Ed Witten, Perelman).

[Anonymous No.23105720]

>>23104755
>you see them post these doomer-like videos about how gen alpha is a lost generation with no attention span
In every culture you have the older generations complaining about the younger generations

[Anonymous No.23105726]

>>23104761
Retarded and cringe

>>23104851
Based and living in reality

[Anonymous No.23105737]

Irving Babbitt’s Literature and the American College

[Anonymous No.23106012]

>>23104761
Have you looked up Zach Lahn his school in Wichita? Ignore the website. He has a 2 hour interview on youtube.

> inb4 lobster man
Suck my dick.

[Anonymous No.23106221]

>>23104168
Emile by Rousseau
Fichte's works on education (he worked as a children's tutor)

[Anonymous No.23106225]

>>23104168
Northrop Frye, The Educated Imagination.

[Anonymous No.23106230]

>>23105675
>He thinks learning Latin is only about communicating like any other current language.
ngmi

[Anonymous No.23106237]

>>23106221
Anti-Emile

[Anonymous No.23106239]

>>23104168
The Theory of Education in the United States by Albert Jay Nock.
>https://cdn.mises.org/The%20Theory%20of%20Education%20in%20the%20United%20States%20The%20Page-Barbour%20Lectures%20for%201931%20at%20the%20University%20of%20Virginia_2.pdf

[Anonymous No.23106257]

>>23104482
than jerk off for /b

[Anonymous No.23106304]

>>23104518
>>23106237
>>23104507
Hmm, so which one is it

[Anonymous No.23106457]

>>23106304
Just look at how Rousseau treated his own sons and think if you want his opinion on education.

[Anonymous No.23106496]

>>23104168
>and wants to completely privatize education.

Unless you radically change US culture and magically unretard generations steeped in consumerism and immediate gratification this will never work. The vast majority will never spend significantly more than their vouchers, so it remains public school lite. If you don't do vouchers you will have a large wholly illiterate, feral child problem, and Idiocracy as they become adults who require welfare. At the very least, you'd have to get rid of democracy so they can't vote.

[Anonymous No.23106499]

>>23106496
>At the very least, you'd have to get rid of democracy so they can't vote.
:)

[Anonymous No.23106627]

pedagogy of the oppressed (freire)
experience and education (dewey)

[Anonymous No.23106634]

>>23106627
>pedagogy of the oppressed (freire)
Stay the fuck away from this monstrosity.
It was one of the reasons Brazil is the shithole that it is today.
It's basically the communist manifesto turned into a pseudo-intellectual pedagogy.

[Anonymous No.23106639]

>>23104168
You might want to check this chart out. I went to Montessori as a kid, btw. I'm 41 now.

[Anonymous No.23106667]

>>23106304
rousseau of course. why would you read a refutation of emile before the real thing?

[Anonymous No.23107001]

The Commonplace is a pretty good podcast on this. It's aimed at moms, since this is who tends to care about this sort of thing, but it brings together a versatile range of classical sources and Charlotte Mason styles. Like most classical education still around, it's Christian. You can see the Thomistic and Aristotlean influence quite readily, which IMO is a plus. "Education is for actualizing human potential, the fulfillment of our telos in the search for the Good, the Beautiful, and the True," that sort of thing. Plato shows up too though.

The dominance of rules or utilitarian ethics and their dominance in education, and the total neglect of the virtues, has been a disaster. Based on current thinking in psychology and economics, we'd be forced to conclude A Brave New World is a utopia and what we should be building towards lol. Consoomption, orgy porgy, and production! Gotta love your grindset mindset!

I'm going to make my son read Boethius when he is ready.

[Anonymous No.23107030]

>>23104313
The commitment to old texts isn't really what is needed.

I would still absolutely agree that Aristotle's ethics should be taught, more than once (middle and high school), and perhaps Cicero as well. The Organon? It's dry, it's outdated, logic is an area where massive breakthroughs have occured since then. I would much rather my kid be given For All X or something like that, and then something like the Routledge Contemporary Introduction to Philosophical Logic if they show aptitude (Springer has good texts for math).

I do 100% agree that mathematical foundations, the philosophically interesting elements of it, and logic should be introduced far earlier. My math education was all grinding out computational with rules that were never justified ("it is what gets the right answer,") for no purpose aside from "you need it to pass the test."

I would have kids read books in math class on math. Stuff like the undecidablity problem and birth of computation are fascinating and can help create a passion for the subject. Yes, you have to drill, and practical applications can help make it more interesting, but the most interesting math stuff you get very little of until upper level college classes. I wasn't asked to write a proof until grad school and I had no idea what the fuck a proof even was (pathetic).

Plus, if I was going to make a mandatory old list it would have Plato, Saint Augustine, and Porphery's Isagoge.

The balance of practical and theoretic is tough. Teaching a programing language like Prolog gets at theoretical stuff more, but Python or SQL is definitely more useful.

[Anonymous No.23107032]

>>23106634
seconding this. It is also required reading for american teachers in college.

[Anonymous No.23107034]

I “taught” at a Montessori school for a year before I quit. I was hired to teach children reading skills but I mostly ended up helping kids when their computers crashed playing Minecraft. The other teachers were white neoliberal purple-haired women. I once overheard one of them, a “science” teacher, telling a group of kids that genetics is “a little true but mostly white man stuff,” whatever that was supposed to mean.
Some of the kids were of middle school age and functionally illiterate. I wasn’t allowed to teach them if they weren’t interested.
Most depressing year of my life.

[Anonymous No.23107053]

>>23107034
There is a reason elites all send their kids to classical programs. It's the petite bourgeoisie who get suckered into that shit. Not that all Montessori is like that, some are quite good.

Unfortunately, the rest of their lives, the Haitian nanny servants who care for them, the ubiquitous and heavy drug use and the fact that rich people get high end pharma sort of on demand, and the substantial creep of POMO even into classical programs, means they often do not end up virtuous. Or if they are virtuous, they still have very narrow minded interests and generally use their power to protect their class, rather than to make society more unified and better.

Plus, some rich kids are just dumb even if they have smart parents. I was a terribly paid adjunct at a top school and had kids who went to elite private high schools who still wrote like shit.

[Anonymous No.23107057]

>>23107053
>the Haitian nanny servants who care for them
Are they a bad influence?

[Anonymous No.23107108]

this is what I plan to do with my kid

>send him to public school for the basics and socialization
>demand only that he gets bare minimun grades to pass, high grades are useless
>excelent diet since day one, barely no sugar
>make him work out
>teach him boxing
>teach him meditation
>take him fishing
>make him read marcus aurelius, then aristotle, then nietzsche, then spengler, then bronze age mindset
>if he hasn't lost his virginity by 13 pay for a whore
>encourage him to make money on his own, make him read rich dad poor dad
>by 16 teach him to shoot
>by 18 take him to the woods and offer him to take shrooms under my fatherly care, this will complete the cycle and he will be ready for all life has to offer

[Anonymous No.23107113]

>>23107108
> then bronze age mindset
So you’re going to turn him into a jewish zionist homosexual?

[Anonymous No.23107119]

Could someone give me the rundown on private school? I went to ghetto-tier public schools and am wondering if it's viable/worth it to try to send my kids to private schools, I'm expecting to just make a decent government salary so I won't be rolling in cash.

[Anonymous No.23107121]

Hold childhood in reverence, and do not be in any hurry to judge it for good or ill. Leave exceptional cases to show themselves, let their qualities be tested and confirmed, before special methods are adopted. Give nature time to work before you take over her business, lest you interfere with her dealings. You assert that you know the value of time and are afraid to waste it. You fail to perceive that it is a greater waste of time to use it ill than to do nothing, and that a child ill taught is further from virtue than a child who has learnt nothing at all. You are afraid to see him spending his early years doing nothing. What! is it nothing to be happy, nothing to run and jump all day? He will never be so busy again all his life long. Plato, in his Republic, which is considered so stern, teaches the children only through festivals, games, songs, and amusements. It seems as if he had accomplished his purpose when he had taught them to be happy; and Seneca, speaking of the Roman lads in olden days, says, "They were always on their feet, they were never taught anything which kept them sitting." Were they any the worse for it in manhood? Do not be afraid, therefore, of this so-called idleness. What would you think of a man who refused to sleep lest he should waste part of his life? You would say, "He is mad; he is not enjoying his life, he is robbing himself of part of it; to avoid sleep he is hastening his death." Remember that these two cases are alike, and that childhood is the sleep of reason.

The apparent ease with which children learn is their ruin. You fail to see that this very facility proves that they are not learning. Their shining, polished brain reflects, as in a mirror, the things you show them, but nothing sinks in. The child remembers the words and the ideas are reflected back; his hearers understand them, but to him they are meaningless.

Although memory and reason are wholly different faculties, the one does not really develop apart from the other. Before the age of reason the child receives images, not ideas; and there is this difference between them: images are merely the pictures of external objects, while ideas are notions about those objects determined by their relations.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Emile or on Education

[Anonymous No.23107130]

>>23107119
If you care about the education of your kids home-school them at home yourself.

[Anonymous No.23107139]

>>23107119
Private school is just filled with rich kids with the same problems as public school kids; namely, retardation, lack of ambition, undisciplined and disrespectful, etc. The only difference is that if the kid acts up in private school, the parents so not receive the monies lost.

[Anonymous No.23107143]

>>23107108
Embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.23107144]

>>23107108
> then bronze age mindset
I like BAP but come on, it is not some advanced work you need to study up for in advance, it is a whacky digest of the previously mentioned philosophers designed to be palatable to zoomers.

[Anonymous No.23107147]

>>23105702
>Ask any self-diagnosed genius (who just happens to be lazy, that's all, otherwise he'll like uh totally make it man like totally) and he'll still be salty he had to learn differential equations and US history when none of that really matters in "real life" (flipping burgers).
I understand that you think being reductive is important for this feminine rhetoric, but I was diagnosed with 160 IQ, several times, and it's not laziness that's the problem nor do I give a shit about whatever you're calling "making it". I've spent the last 20 years of my life learning various subjects and collecting various materials (both books and application), exclusively because it's enjoyable and what I'm interested in, but society doesn't reward this type of behavior. They want someone who can pull a lever and get themselves in debt. That's the full extent of your civic duty. You shouldn't even have kids because they want to import them instead. So, why would I want to participate in something like that? If you want to see a drastic change in how they treated a "genius", just look at everything before and after NCLB. Talk to the people who lived through this divide, then people before and after.

[Anonymous No.23107148]

>>23107139
>The only difference is that if the kid acts up in private school, the parents so not receive the monies lost.
What?

[Anonymous No.23107150]

>>23105720
And everytime they've been right, because they can see the before and after. The amount of high school teachers complaining about children not being able to read anywhere remotely close to "on grade level." is disturbing.

[Anonymous No.23107152]

>>23107130
Yes, yes, very cute.

[Anonymous No.23107154]

>>23107148
Shut up, retard. It was a mistake while phoneposting and contextually anyone with two braincells could discern “do” was meant to be there instead of “so.” Public school education right there.

[Anonymous No.23107160]

>>23107154
It's still a nonsensical sentence, phoneposter.

[Anonymous No.23107162]

>>23104586
There’s no history. It’s a marketing scheme.

[Anonymous No.23107165]

>>23105702
Reddit, the post.
Unschooled men might have not known a single thing, but they got everything done. With everything, I mean tending gardens, herding animals, making knifes, building roofs, making carriages.
Meanwhile your average college graduate of knowadays knows nothing, can't nothing, and derives a sense of arrogant superiority from it.
If college education was ever worth anything, it was when on top of knowing how to do literally everything, you also added a college education to that. Just a college education makes you a worthless bugman unironically.
I hate and despise you.

[Anonymous No.23107166]

>>23104755
Anon, the common man 200 years ago couldn't spell his own name. The common man was lucky if he could attend a one room schoolhouse for a few years instead of doing child labor.

>the conditions that created "philosophers, orators, emperors, conquerors, literary geniuses" from 1000 B.C to A.D. 500 in 2024.

Money. In almost every civilization until now plebs have had no access to proper education. The geniuses you are thinking of were all elites. I guess you could ask why the standards for elite education are declining but school for plebs has never been good.

[Anonymous No.23107170]

>>23107152
I intend to do this unironically, with nothing but Jean-Jacques Rousseau's book about education in my hands, the farm, and a handful of second-hand schoolbooks I will read aloud to my happy boys and girls every evening.

[Anonymous No.23107171]

>>23107119
It depends on the situation. I went to a private school until my mom divorced my dad and she couldn’t afford it anymore. I had to go to public school after that. The private school was very good and everyone that graduated from it got into great colleges. The public school was terrible, had tons of drugs and crime, we learned almost nothing, and almost nobody went to college let alone a great college. Meanwhile, my cousin also left the same prep school because he got kicked out and ended up in public school, but he public school he went to was very good. It was in a nice area, had good teachers, good programs, and he ended up going to a really good college. I did too, but it was obvious he got a much better high school education than I did.

So it just depends on how good or bad the public school options are. The actual model of education is the same either way.

When I’m a father, I think I will want my kids to go to a public school, but a good one, and I will probably supplement my kids’ learning with private tutoring for a classical education. I don’t think private school has any real advantage over private tutoring. Most of the benefit is just keeping them out of a bad public school, which isn’t a concern if the public school is good.

[Anonymous No.23107177]

>>23107166
> instead of doing child labor
Most 'child labour' that time was given to the children by their own parents. What parent desires the illness of his own offspring? It was about teaching them a job. Nowadays you have to pay expensively for it.
Kys, brainwashed bugman.

[Anonymous No.23107178]

>>23107119
>>23107171
For what it’s worth, I knew people who did this. The kids who went to good public schools from K through college and got private tutoring with other kids on the side are the most impressive people I know.

[Anonymous No.23107180]

>>23107144
yeah that is why I will make him read it, I don't expect him to understand the big brain philosophers

[Anonymous No.23107191]

No books till the age of twelve.
I insist on this last supposition.

[Anonymous No.23107197]

>>23107180
So you want him to just run his eyes over the words of the first three philosophers, not understand them, and then finally read BAP's silly, selective interpretation of them?

[Anonymous No.23107211]

>>23107108
>BAP
Instead of /pol/pop you should you go with something more geared towards what you're after, such as RAIDO's first entry of A Handbook of Traditional Living (Theory & Practice), and if he's interested further, go with the 2nd entry (Style & Ascesis)
>rich dad poor dad
Out of dad boomer tactics. You're better off teaching him something else.
>learning to shoot at 16
I learned to shoot at 5 or 6. At least give him a bb gun/airgun or something.

[Anonymous No.23107219]

>>23104446
watch that attitude

[Anonymous No.23107226]

Emile appears to just be what eventually became the modern education system. What is the actual takeaway here? I don't want to waste my time reading 750 pages that "practical skills is better."

[Anonymous No.23107256]

>>23107177
It wasn't about teaching anything, it was about letting the family survive. There was no birth control so women churned out tons of babies and keeping them alive meant making the other kids do farmwork, sending them to factories or making them sweep chimneys for income.

[Anonymous No.23107269]

>>23104168
the waldorf school comes out of anthroposophy, a borderline-cult of esoteric scholars who try to draw through lines across all of human spirituality. basically the precursors of the hippie/new-age movement. the schooling itself is sound, but there's always a lurking satanic theme.

[Anonymous No.23107285]

>>23107256
The first-born would usually inherit the farm. The girls were married off to other men. The rest of the boys worked at the farm till about the age of 20 and then either, apprenticeship finished, went to live in some city working their newly learned job, or, as farmers, built themselves a carriage-house and set for greener pastures.
A true and literal utopia.
Ironic that you are showing me imagery of capitalism, the system that you support. But hey, if you didn't have a college diploma you wouldn't afford fashion made by child labour in Bangladesh.
Unironically blast yourself.

[Anonymous No.23107305]

>>23107147

>spending 20 years of your life learning stuff

>not using that knowledge for profit

Have you only studied the intricacies of underwater Bangladeshi fingerpuppetry or something? If you had good math, coding or finance skills you could make a killing in crypto or the tech world and you could use that money to ensure your kids would grow up in the ruling class. Hell, even if you actually only have knowledge in the humanities, you could easily start a line of products based on some culture or other like pic related. Or you could use your knowledge to build relationships with powerful people in ivy league universities.

[Anonymous No.23107317]

>>23107030
>t's dry,
Good. Learn to deal with dry and methodical texts. What some anons miss is that the difficulty is not a bug, it's a feature of the Classical Education.
>it's outdated, logic is an area where massive breakthroughs have occured since then.
I still think that the organon is the proper introduction before you get the modern texts on informal and formal logic, in the context of a classical education, it wasn't made obsolete, they only build more things on top of it. Socratic Logic br Kreeft for informal and your favorite introduction textbook for formal logic.
>I would much rather my kid be given For All X or something like that
The logic in the context of the trivium is the informal logic. Don't get me wrong, formal logic has it's uses, but it's not the focus of this bloc of education, that it's focused on creating citizens that can hold their own with rhetoric and dialectics in public.

[Anonymous No.23107333]

>>23107285
The world you describe is capitalist, retard. Do you think everyone did their jobs for free back then?

Anyways, why are you posting here instead of becoming Amish or moving to a small village in Uganda where the cool trad lifestyle still exists?

[Anonymous No.23107344]

>>23107147
>but I was diagnosed with 160 IQ, several times
>diagnosed
Is that really the word?

[Anonymous No.23107417]

>>23104755
>the issue is trying to *recreate* the conditions that created "philosophers, orators, emperors, conquerors, literary geniuses" from 1000 B.C to A.D. 500 in 2024
>"All you have to do is get rid of the actively deleterious factors like degenerate media and smartphones and you could have 19th century levels of intelligence and achievement..."
As a kid, I often wondered why the later Roman Empire failed to produce great people like the Golden Age Romans. Most great men of this period were Greeks, and Boethius wasn't the "last great Roman" so much as the first great Scholastic. Classical Rome essentially peaked very hard in a small window of time, followed by shocking levels of decline.

The same is true of German philosophy, of the Aufklärung which rode high on the hopes they would build meaningfully off the Kantian philosophy, and when the public realizes this would never happen, everyone's hopes sunk into mud and pessimism faded into nationalism which eroded the remaining goodness in the German spirit.

By studying history, you will understand that the greatest men were produced by a fundamentally irrational and even childish sort of optimism. It was a totally unfounded, axiomatic belief in virtue or progress that gave the great men their fires. When these beliefs floundered, men gave up their hopes, and the talent of those generations was squandered.

To accomplish anything great, you need to artificially recreate that environment in your mind. This is what Nietzsche tried to convey to us -- that conditions which produce genius are arbitrary. Being born in a specific time and place makes it easier, but if you have what it takes, you can rise to the top anywhere, at any time. Hence amor fati.

[Anonymous No.23107612]

>>23107333
No, they did it in exchange for goods, rarely money.

[Anonymous No.23107625]

>>23107305
>not using that knowledge for profit
We have an income of nearly $130K/yr, combined. Where did you get the idea that I'm not making money? It's just the sheer amount that I pay in taxes, combined with severe bad luck and helping my family members out, that I'm not exactly what I'd call "successful." Frankly, I'm just a miserable cybersecurity analyist while I work through grad school for mathematics, and I'll probably just quit my job after we finally buy a little chunk of land and have a year or two's worth in savings.
>If you had good math
I do. I did a mathematics undergrad, and as I mentioned, I'm working through grad school. But this is just for fun, I'm not doing it for profit. I just enjoy the material and it keeps me out of jury duty.
>coding
programming* and I do. I reverse engineered MMORPGs in the from when I was a teenager until I was in my mid-20's. It's just tcpdump and C++, but it was something I enjoyed at the time.
>finance skills
I made some decent money thanks to Reddit's predictably overzealous behavior.
>>23107344
That's the word I selected based on what they wrote. You didn't get it?

[Anonymous No.23107661]

>>23107625
>That's the word I selected based on what they wrote. You didn't get it?
Obviously I'm asking if "diagnosed" is the official term you'd use in that context. 160 IQ isn't an illness, I think you'd just say something like "measured." You aren't "diagnosed" with your height, or any other positive or neutral characteristic.

[Anonymous No.23107790]

>>23105720
it's a straight decline since the garden of eden

[Anonymous No.23107857]

>>23106639
What are your thoughts on montessori, now that the full effects have had the time to unfold?

[Anonymous No.23107878]

>>23106230
At the time when Latin was taught, it was the universal language of Europe. Whole universities only spoke in Latin. That was the main reason why Latin was taught, yeah. Of course you can argue the rigorous grammar of Latin educates the mind, and maybe pick up some etymology, but all of that can also be done with living languages. In summary, teaching Latin cones across as aping the old disconnected from it’s main intention.

[Anonymous No.23107883]

>>23107150
>falling for fear propaganda
I bet you think global warming will kill us all by 2030 too

[Anonymous No.23107891]

>>23107790
Intellectually? No, even eating the fruit in the garden of eden was an increase in intelligence. But this is what humanities-tards actually think. They think the people who thought the earth was flat and didn’t know about gravity were smarter than people who have discovered general relativity.

[Anonymous No.23107899]

>>23104168
I find programmed-instruction material very comfy. Programmed instruction was huge decades ago, but it dropped out of favor for some reason. Some modern books still use the approach, and I invariably complete those books, unlike books with huge exercise sets dumped at the end of chapters, which become tedious.

https://open.byu.edu/lidtfoundations/programmed_instruction

[Anonymous No.23107972]

>>23107891
Chill out schizo

[Anonymous No.23108063]

>>23107878
Uneducated people didn't know Latin. You learned Latin because the books were written in Latin. That's why elites learned Latin even after the medieval age to today. The books are what matters.

[Anonymous No.23108097]

>>23107891
Quintessential redditor bugman post. Why are you even on a literature board if you think the entirety of intellect can be reduced to exclusively natural sciences?

[Anonymous No.23108197]

>>23107661
To be short, I'm being sardonic, anon.
>>23107883
Well, my mother is a teacher and I'm an adjacent professor, but alright.

[Anonymous No.23108293]

Tie-breaking round for /lit/'s favorite children's books. Vote for your favorites here :

https://forms.gle/QuSzQ6KgfGSex9uq7

Related thread : >>23108191

[Anonymous No.23108432]

>>23107147
>I was diagnosed with 160 IQ, several times
"Femanon here"-tier way to start, not sure what the relevance of that is. Am I suppose to judge based on that and not how you actually think, is anyone suddenly indebted to you now?

>exclusively because it's enjoyable and what I'm interested in, but society doesn't reward this type of behavior
You're bitter society doesn't reward you for just having interests? How's this any different than leftoids complaining capitalism has failed because their passion for open mic free-verse poetry and feminist dance therapy goes unremunerated by the state?

>They want someone who can pull a lever and get themselves in debt.
Sure, why not? What's wrong in actually being useful or at least making someone money if you're a low impulse control idiot who needs the latest product to consume and can't be pruned anymore?

>You shouldn't even have kids because they want to import them instead.
Of course, it's easier for those pesky capitalists to hoard in brown babies whose parents don't even know what to buy them than sell baby products (among the most profitable markets by the way) to whites who would actually buy them and engage in all sorts of expensive indulgences.

>So, why would I want to participate in something like that?
Who says you should? You already know we're too many since natural selection stopped being a thing, so why even ask that? What's with this incel-tier self-centeredness and the idea that anyone owes you anything and you feel the need to angrily justify your bitch attitude? Is it some sort of subtle begging for affection, do you want to hear you actually matter and how unfair life treats you?

[Anonymous No.23108445]

>>23107165
>tending gardens, herding animals, making knifes, building roofs, making carriages.
And you can do that do, and so can Juan. All you need is not to be a complete idiot (like Subsaharian levels, although they still do like 4 our of 6) and have a master to learn that one thing from. Move to a farm, you'll quickly learn whatever you need to survive in that environment.

>Meanwhile your average college graduate of knowadays knows nothing, can't nothing, and derives a sense of arrogant superiority from it.
So stupid people being stupid and having no need for being college because they're stupid and could just herd goats is the fault of the college but a student receiving basic education and then going on and becoming an aeronautical engineer isn't also thanks to the very same college?

>If college education was ever worth anything, it was when on top of knowing how to do literally everything, you also added a college education to that.
And what's stopping you from learning how to do "literally everything"? Are you bitter the state doesn't babysit you even more? Is the useless knowledge you were forced to digest somehow now hindering you from learning what those men of ye olde learned through trial and error?

>Just a college education makes you a worthless bugman unironically.
But so does being just street-smart and illiterate or whatever. You're only seeing this one-side of the fantasy where the poor good-hearted man who can't even read managed to make it from the bottom because of his talent and so on, but that's far from the general case. Most poor people are dumb. And most training is good training, even if you don't see the point of it just yet.

>I hate and despise you.
Why not start with that next time and we'll both know where you're coming from and the sort of arguments you'd make?

[Anonymous No.23108501]

>>23108097
Nice strawman. When did I say it could? You are the one completely ignoring major fields that have been dramatically advanced to preserve your half-assed, uneducated, unsupported opinion (even by your own religion). Are you sure you want to keep going with this line of argument?
>>23107972
What is the schizo part of the post? Adam and Eve consumed the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil according to Christians, so it can't be that. Is it schizo that people believed the earth was flat and didn't know about gravity at some point? That's recorded history. Your doomer opinions just don't hold up.

[Anonymous No.23108518]

>>23108063
>Uneducated people didn't know Latin
No shit sherlock, never implied the opposite.
>You learned Latin because the books were written in Latin. That's why elites learned Latin even after the medieval age to today.
Books are no longer written in Latin, the universal language of research is basically english nowadays. During the enlightenment Latin was the universal language of Europe and whole universities spoke exclusively in Latin. That's why you have Schopenhauer saying people that don't know Latin are retarded.

[Anonymous No.23108541]

>>23108445
I already know his way of thinking, he unironically fully believes in the street smart vs book smart dichotomy, while also believing theory is useless and doesn't hold up in practice.

[Anonymous No.23108574]

>>23105675
Latin is used in the natural sciences (ie. taxonomic nomenclature), medicine, is still the official language of the Roman Catholic Church, and is, of course, still immensely valuable if you wish to read or study the classics, the Western philosophical tradition following the Greeks, a vast collection of literary and artistic works, foundational texts in the sciences and mathematics, historical works, ancient texts and manuscripts generally, in their original language, rather than having to rely on a translation, which may or may not be a "good" or accurate, translation - which should strive to conserve the literary/stylistic aspect of the text, in addition, to the more direct meaning of the words, with some lines or phrases possibly getting lost in translation or other compromises may be made by translators seeking to reach that balance and keep faithful to the intention of the original work/author as best as they can). Without reading the texts in their original language, you are taking the translator/translation at face value and dealing with an inherently imperfect, inferior means of understanding the author or work. You are only getting an approximation, a vague or general impression of the text, rather than the text as it would be fully understood in the original language. Academics still study Latin, it's not as esoteric or uncommon as you (or other pseuds/normalfags/brainlets smoothbrains) think.

[Anonymous No.23108580]

>>23104168
No substitute for just time spent with your kid, honestly. Someone wise (and kind, and stable) in the house to guide them through their childhood. Education is important, obviously, but it all flows from the parent.

In re philosophy of education, check out maimonides. Absolutely brilliant, jaw dropping stuff on virtue ethics, education, and cultivating curiosity and nobody reads him in the west. Good luck man.

[Anonymous No.23108592]

>>23108574
You're clearly well read on your translation theory, which is great, but most of it doesn't apply to dead languages/cultures.

[Anonymous No.23108726]

>>23104433
Do you want to be my wife?

[Anonymous No.23108931]

>>23107269
There's a fairly coherent connection between the anthropologists and the gnostics and neoplatonists, so I can understand some of your feelings. What do you mean when you say satanic? What are you thinking about specifically?
>t. Raised in a Steiner school

[Anonymous No.23108946]

>>23104433
those guys would make you feel the ick IRL

[Anonymous No.23108958]

>>23108574
So basically Latin is not useful unless you are a theologian, classicist or a historian of one of the humanities specializing in antiquity.

[Anonymous No.23108990]

>>23104433
Rest your feet on my face for 3 hours and then get the fuck out roastoid

[Anonymous No.23108995]

>>23108931
Any tips on getting involved in Anthroposophy? Can I just go hang out with them and learn about Ahriman?

[Anonymous No.23109256]

Love it all. Imma read all of this stuff. <3

[Anonymous No.23109324]

>>23108931
individualism, polytheism, de-emphasis of community and charity

[Anonymous No.23109468]

>>23108501
>in a thread lamenting the state of modern education
>uses "uneducated" as an insult
The absolute irony.

[Anonymous No.23109488]

>>23104433
You know the rules