Conversations with Goethe

[Anonymous No.23071910]

Has anyone here read Conversations with Goethe? If so, what are your thoughts and is it worth reading the whole thing? I picked it up last summer and got about a hundred pages in before dropping it because while the content was good, there was a lot of talk about 19th century German literature that I was simply not equipped for. I am thinking about picking it back up after listening to essentialsalts’ recent episode on the Nietzsche Podcast.

Also, what are your guys thoughts on the Nietzsche Podcast? Is he insightful in your opinion or are his takes bad?

[Anonymous No.23071917]

The manifestation of the idea as beauty is just as transitory as the manifestation of the exalted, the spirited, the merry, the comical. This is the reason why it is so difficult to discuss.

A principle must necessarily exist for beauty, which is manifest in the appearance of beauty.

Take the example of a rose.
The vegetative principle is manifest in its most elevated appearance in the bloom; the rose is as though the 'peak' of appearance.

Even the rind of the fruit can be beautiful.
The fruit can never be beautiful, because the vegetative principle resides within merely as principle.

The principle that emerges - with utmost freedom and in satisfaction of its own requirements - in appearance brings forth objective beauty, which indeed must surely find worthy subjects who will apprehend it.

The beauty of youth is derived from the above.
Old age: the gradual withdrawalfrom appearance.
That extent to which the aging can be regarded as beautiful.
Eternal youth of the Greek gods.

[Anonymous No.23071945]

>>23071910
Not surprising a Nietzsche podcast would turn you on to this given that Nietzsche himself considered it the best German book. I've read it, along with The Italian Journey, German Refugees, and Poetry and Truth. All present Goethe in a conversational mood although Eckermann's book necessarily from a distant, almost ghostly third-person. Especially enjoyed his opinions on English literature (Scott, Byron) and his recountings of Weimar times with Schiller as well as his travels in general. In this connection Walter Scott's Journal over the last ten years of his life is worth checking out as well-- an all but entirely forgotten masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.23073379]

November 24, 1824. . . . . This led us to speak of Roman and Grecian history. Goethe said, "The Roman history does not suit our present turn of mind. We take a more general interest in humanity, and cannot sympathize with the triumphs of Caesar. Neither are we much edified by the history of Greece. ... the division of the states, and their eternal wars with one another, where Greek fights against Greek, are insufferable. Besides, the history of our own time is so full of important events, the battles of Leipsic
>[where Napoleon was defeated 1813]
and Waterloo
>[where Napoleon was defeated 1815]
so grand, that Marathon [Athens vs Persians] and other such days are entirely eclipsed. Neither are our great men inferior to theirs. Wellington, Blucher
>[the two commanders that defeated Napoleon at Waterloo in 1815]
and the French Marshals vie with any of the heroes of antiquity."
>[French Marshals: a rank Napoleon gave his generals that had distinguished themselves on the battlefields]

[Anonymous No.23073793]

>>23073379
Goethe was based.

[Anonymous No.23073805]

>>23071910
I've read the entries critcising romanticism. All tabletalk books with interesting figures are worth reading, one of the best forgotten genres.

[Anonymous No.23073829]

>>23071910
>there was a lot of talk about 19th century German literature that I was simply not equipped for
You should really read more Weimar classicalism and German romanticism, and its antecedents, before diving into a book on literary criticism.

[Anonymous No.23073882]

>>23073829
Recommendations? I am familiar with the philisophy of the time (Kant, Fichte, Hegel, Schopenhauer, etc.) but not the literature.

[Anonymous No.23073959]

>>23073882
Goethe, Schiller, Novalis, Ludwig Tieck, E. T. A. Hoffmann etc. Madame de Stael was influential in popularising it to a wider audience. Start with the first two. Carlyle translated Tieck, some of Hoffman's stuff has been freshly translated by major publishers recently.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/38779/38779-h/38779-h.htm

[Anonymous No.23074092]

>>23071910
I really wondered why this nigga is highly regarded by intellectuals, especially Germans.
Can any anon who actually read works of him or about him and grasped something of his perspective help me out ?
Do I need to read Faust first?

[Anonymous No.23074114]

>>23074092
No, you should read Faust last. First learn to be literate and not communicate like a retard. Second read Young Werther, then William Meister's Apprenticeship, then Elective Affinities, then Goethe's non-fiction and poetry.

[Anonymous No.23074744]

>>23073379
He's completely right but it makes me despair of our own time. He's right that the heroes of the 18th and 19th Centuries, the Napoleonic Era, are every bit the equal of the heroes and exploits of Greece and Rome.

But sitting in America in 2024, I realize there seems to be no one of that like among the broader West today. Will we ever flame that brightly again? The Napoleonic Era is like a mythic era, where men who were like gods walked the Earth. It was a rebirth, almost, of an age of heroes.

So I'm filled with despair, but also hope. Because if the flame of heroism and greatness can rekindle in the "Modern" period of history once, maybe it can rekindle yet again.

[Anonymous No.23075755]

>>23074744
Andrew Jackson was same time as as Napoleon (Battle of New Orleans during War of 1812 was a masterpiece)
Grant, Lee, Stonewall etc were not long after Napoleon

100 years later it was WW2 with Patton, Eisenhower, McArthur etc

Hopefully so crazy conflict like those during our lives

[Anonymous No.23076114]

>>23075755
Even in ww2 there was still at least a little room to be a human being, anon. Your post initiated a level of reflection I did not anticipate. Your 'Hopefully' made me smile at first, but now I'm rather sad.
I wonder if 'so' was a typo for what should have been no

[Anonymous No.23076170]

>>23073379
He wanted to make a point here about living during a monumental time himself, but every person who would bother reading Goethe, or reading Goethe's Conversations, would be a highly educated German who was well aware of basic Greek and Roman history like Marathon and Caesar. Don't read this quote and assume you can skip learning about the Ancients, Goethe loved them and for the past 2000 years they were studied by every single intellectual you're reading (about) today.

[Anonymous No.23077358]

>>23076114
Yes was supposed to be no, not "so"

You need great wars and great battles to produce such great military leaders, and hopefully we don't have to see any great wars or battles

[Anonymous No.23077554]

>>23074114
rude, but thanks