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23063141 No.23063141 [Reply] [Original]

>130 pages in
>so far, all Ishmael prattling on about irrelevant nonsense
>Ishmael sperging out in entertaining fashion
>his thinly veiled homo lust for Queequeg
So when does it get good? The dull parts are really outweighing the Chadqueg sections

>> No.23063154

>>23063141
Stick with vidya instead.

>> No.23063160

>>23063141
>The best novel written in the English language is mostly "prattling on about irrelevant nonsense"
Literature isn't for you

>> No.23063207

>>23063141
Maybe vidya is more your speed?

>> No.23063215

>>23063160
Only Americans wish it was the best English novel

>> No.23063264

>>23063215
Name a better one

>> No.23063808

>>23063141
>Your brain on pop culture.

>> No.23063824
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23063824

>>23063141
>mfw it's a blubber chapter

>> No.23063854

>>23063264
Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow, Infinite Jest

>> No.23063880

it's immensely interesting to read, considering the archaic quality of whale hunting, and the only time my adhd ass was close to groaning was exactly one of the latest chapters dedicated to the process before the final, Shakespearean, 100 pages. Doesn't overstay its welcome, I'd say.

>> No.23063912

>>23063854
>names two more american novels
what did he mean by this

>> No.23064180

>>23063160
You saw that it was a "classic," and let that completely blind your vision to any of its flaws. You didn't even give a good counter point or different perspective, you just said "wtf, it's the best written novel of all time because.... it is!" You're the exact same archetype of person as a /v/tard who venerates old video games to the umpteenth degree because they're "classics" and tries to spin anything negative about it into a positive.

>> No.23064354

The nonsense is irrelevant only if you're retarded, it's very relevant.

>> No.23064377

>>23063141
Since you got filtered so hard maybe you'd like a book about baleen whales better

>> No.23064632

>>23064354
>>23064377
>0 counterpoints
You guys don't actually even like reading, do you? You just read "classics" so you can feel more cultured and use that as justification to feel superior to other people.

>> No.23064638

>>23064632
I don‘t need to justify my superiority to other people.

>> No.23064662

>>23064632
>baby's first venture out of the YA section
You don't deserve The Whale. Go ahead, give up.

>> No.23064671

>>23064638
Which is why you made a post trying to convince a person on an anonymous image board of your superiority.

>> No.23064688

>>23064662
>still no counters, just impotent rage that someone isn't brainless accepting a work as great because it's a "classic"
I was never going to give up but this confirms, at least, that /lit/ just reads books to jerk themselves off rather than actually enjoying it as a hobby. This place might as well be called "/v/ for books."

>> No.23064707

>>23064671
I would never.

>> No.23064729

>>23064688
You're getting so much hate and backlash because your OP is basically admitting to having the attention span of a gnat.
>Chadqueg
It's not our fault you come off as an idiot so don't be surprised when you get treated as such. No one is going to give you a good faith analysis backing up why we like Moby Dick. There's plenty of secondary literature that can do that for you. What do you want? Constantly stimulating "chadqueg" scenes? It's not a comic book, buddy. Yeah, it is a classic. The onus isn't on us to prove that. It's on you to disprove its value if that's what your asserting which you haven't done at all beyond saying it bored you which again is more of a reflection of your atrophied attention span than anything else. There's nothing to argue because you haven't made any valid criticisms other than "its not good". Wow brilliant critique.

>> No.23064841

>>23063215
It's not even the best American novel of that decade (1850-1860), which was the decade right after Poe's last works (1849)
Melville himself idolized Hawthorne, whose four major romances were written that decade too: The Scarlet Letter (1850), The House of the Seven Gables (1851), The Blithedale Romance (1852) and The Marble Faun (1860)
You also had Uncle Tom's Cabin (1852) by Harriet Beecher Stowe

Going to American schools my whole life (including an American Lit class in college), of those, the one they had us read was The Scarlet Letter.

That same decade 1850-1860 you also had
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's epic poem The Song of Hiawatha (1855)
And the greatest work of that decade, Walt Whitman's epic Leaves of Grass (1855)

>> No.23064913

>>23064841
Leaves of Grass is a poem and none of those novels you mentioned are better than Moby Dick.

>> No.23065034
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23065034

>>23064913

>> No.23065191

>>23064180
Ironic, your post doesn't actually point out any of the flaws, it boils down to "no, it's actually bad even though people think it's good". I enjoyed the book, I think it's treatment of core themes of the human soul are spectacular, it has massive impact while you're reading it, it has such a striking style that you will remember whole scenes vividly years later, it manages a deadly serious tone with moments of levity. It is the definitive English language novel and if you don't think so then you are just being a contrarian and can't actually think for yourself.

>> No.23065194

>>23063854
>Infinite Jest is better than Moby Dick
bait used to be believable

>> No.23065315

>>23063141
>>23065191
>It is the definitive English language novel


Moby Dick is one of those books that isn't even taught in literature courses because it sucks. The "Great American Novel" label was attached to it at some dark point in American letters where middlebrow tastes dominated. Labels stick and that's all there is to it.

If OP is doing anything more than skimming to get to the end, he's not doing it right.

>> No.23065339

>>23064729
>it's actually good to be bloated and filled with irrelevant information and draw out what could be said in two pages to fifteen
I already gave my points. YOU have not. YOU just say it's a classic and use the fact that its tedium is a barrier to entry as something inherently valuable. The truth of the matter is, again, you don't like reading, you're a pseudo intellectual who likes feeling smart for reading books. That's why you can't explain why you like it. You're a simpleton who thinks he's smarter than he is because he reads books to stroke his own ego.
>"chadqueg"
And also a pretentious, snobbish old retard who thinks he's above the website he's on.

>>23065191
>Ironic, your post doesn't actually point out any of the flaws, it boils down to "no, it's actually bad even though people think it's good".
The OP did. Which you have yet to respond to and where the points resided. For someone on a reading board, you sure are bad at it.
> I think it's treatment of core themes of the human soul are spectacular, it has massive impact while you're reading it, it has such a striking style that you will remember whole scenes vividly years later, it manages a deadly serious tone with moments of levity
In between all the moments Ishmael spends talking about whale blubber and repeating "MEN ARE DRAWN TO THE SEA" over and over and over and over.
>It is the definitive English language novel and if you don't think so then you are just being a contrarian and can't actually think for yourself.
>if you don't agree with my opinion blindly, you're a sheep
Imbecile. Anybody who isn't as much of a pseud as you holds the exact same opinion. YOU are the contrarian here. Not once did I say the book was bad, illiterate retard, I said the book has a lot of meandering in the form of Ishmael focusing on incredibly minor details between its entertaining scenes thus far and said if you couldn't explain the value of those scenes without appealing to the fact that it's a classic, that you are a pseud who enjoys reading books to feel superior. The fact that you drew up a fake and baseless position in your mind to get angry at only makes me question both your reading comprehension and taste even more.

>> No.23065348

how am I supposed to be immersed in this book in an age where warships and GPS exists? sailing into the unknown is not what it once used to be. technological advancements obsolete some art unfortunately.

>> No.23065568

>>23063141
>so far, all Ishmael prattling on about irrelevant nonsense
Filtered.

>> No.23065571

>>23065348
>technological advancements obsolete some art unfortunately.
Greater than life adventures and searches of the souls will never become obsolete or rendered outdated by any technological advancement. It's why people still read The Iliad and Odyssey.

>> No.23065936

>>23065571
>It's why people still read The Iliad and Odyssey.

Yes, indeed they do, but they don't read Moby Dick.

>> No.23065963

>>23063141
There's a bit where Ishmael fucking destroys some retard who wrote a book of illustrated whale images. It's pretty cool when you learn that's a real guy who wrote the actual book.

There's also a nice story about the Town-Ho which is neat. I like the bit with the sermon explaining Jonah being a sinner and how he prayed not for salvation, but for the strength to save himself or whatever.

>> No.23065974

>>23063141
gets good around the sermon to the sharks.

>> No.23066050

>>23063141
>Ishmael sperging out in entertaining fashion
How is it entertaining?

And for the Moby Dick lovers: What's so great about it?

>> No.23066324

>>23063854
Maybe, WRONG, WRONG

>> No.23066329

>>23065936
Yes they do

>> No.23067987
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23067987

>>23065315
>>23065936
>>23066329
This is per this English professor here at Purdue that has written numerous articles on Melville
>https://www.cla.purdue.edu/directory/profiles/robert-lamb.html

>> No.23068099

>>23063160
Funny you think he is wrong to say that because In Search of Lost Time is just that, prattling on about irrelevant nonsense, for the French. It has homo plapiens as well.

>> No.23068114

Half of Moby Dick is just a guy (the uninteresting author) rambling about his "ideas."

Imagine if the first hour of Indiana Jones was just George Lucas looking at the camera and lecturing you on the symbolism of the holy grail and how man should treat man therefore.

NOT INTERESTED.

>> No.23068126

>>23068114
>when my hypochondria gets the better of me and I think about making an ass of myself in the street killing myself, I go sailing instead. A few years before the mast sets me straight.
It's not the book you think it is.

>> No.23068129

>>23064841
>You also had Uncle Tom's Cabin (1852) by Harriet Beecher Stowe
not a good book

>> No.23068138

>>23063264
War and Peace. Even does the whole pointless rambling that circles back to making a salient point once in a full moon better.

>> No.23068336

>>23063160
Poor man's Blood meridian isn't the best book in English, you cuck.

>> No.23068380

>>23063141
Anything related to the sea/fishing/old men is boring to begin with. I’m sure it’s good, but I agree most people here are performative faggots who convince themselves to like classics because they’ve been told to and think it’s obligatory in order to be a good writer themselves. If it’s boring, just admit it. Stop pretending. Also, I’m sure some people TRULY enjoy it, but they’re in the minority. No one wants read pages of tedium about the history of whales. Stop lieing to yourselves.

>> No.23068402

>>23068380
>filtered by Cetology
It's short shitpost where he cracks a bunch of jokes. I've realized that those who profess an aversion to classic literature are utterly desiccated and humorless, unable to see a joke through the sheer fabric of prosody.

>> No.23068452
File: 219 KB, 587x429, shallow.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23068452

>>23068402
Put down the thesaurus, faggot.

>> No.23068458

>>23068452
>>>/v/

>> No.23068708

>>23068380
It's because of people like you that many dread starting Moby Dick, thinking it dreadfully boring, only to find out how packed with humor and wit it is, and what a sublime novel it actually is. By chapter 7, The Chapel, I fell in love and knew I was in for something great.

>>23067987
Okay, he mentions there are various reasons for it, and one should take into account the number of people assessed in his own statistic and how limited it is, so it's not actually a good enough proof that people don't read Moby Dick. It's a novel that has proven to be integral to American literary culture, often referenced in a wide variety of different works, and has never truly been forgotten with time. That it is not popular, it never was and likely never will be, but it will often find its way into the arms of new readers, and if you look at how much papers have been written recently regarding it, it's hard to say that people don't read it these days.

>> No.23069018

>>23068114
If it were in the prose in Moby Dick it would have been based. You understand the point of view character is a school teacher turned sailor, right? He's supposed to be an exterior view with an academic background to share a unique view in a trade usually reserved for sell intellectually endowed men.

>> No.23069021

>>23068138
We're talking English language novels. I agree W&P is better which is why I specified in an earlier post.

>> No.23069034

>>23068380
I will only concede that the literal encyclopedia entry on whales was dull, but even so it emphasizes the fact that the author/POV character is a former teacher and interested in academia and preserving knowledge so it has it's place in the overall story.

>> No.23069063

>>23069034
He starts categorizing whales by paper size, it was funny. Borgesian so I only laughed at the end, but funny.

>> No.23069110

>>23069034
>>23068380

You know it's going to be bad when he opens the novel with a lexis-nexis dump of completely random, uncurated citations, wherever the the word whale appeared in text.

>> No.23069126

Did anyone else fap to the scene when Ishmael and Queequeg meet, quickly go to bed together and then wake up with Queequeg's arm lying affectionately around Ishmael, as if the latter were “his wife” ?

>> No.23069533

>>23068708
>>23069034
I've never read it. I'm just talking shit. I'm sure it's fine--I just don't enjoy the spastic circlejerk over classics.

>> No.23069538
File: 146 KB, 1024x1024, mobybbc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23069538

>>23063141
Moby BBC

>> No.23069563

>>23069533
>"Moby-Dick was published to mixed reviews, was a commercial failure, and was out of print at the time of the author's death in 1891."
They had it right the first time.

>> No.23069660

>>23069063
>>23069110
>>23069533
The sperging about the false depictions of "The Leviathan" in both Hindoo and Christian historical depictions tickled my fancy to be honest. I'd go so far as to say it's based.

>> No.23069665

>he doesn't like the daily life aboard the Pequod and Ishmael's musings about the universe

I'm sorry OP but you got filtered. Go read a fantasy book, something with more action in it.

>> No.23070232

>>23069665
need an IQ of 50 or below to like the daily life aboard the Pequod and Ishmael's musings

>> No.23070254

>>23063141
Halfway through the ship has a literal race-war and Queeqnig is never mentioned again.

>> No.23070903

>>23063141
>So when does it get good?

Well you don't get Moby Dick until the end. Like after 130 chapters of whaling trivia. Then you get a few chapters of Dick and it's over.

>> No.23070916

>>23063141
>So when does it get good?
Page 1.

>> No.23070921

>>23063141
If by reading the first few paragraphs you can't tell that this is a special novel you're hopelessly retarded and should probably stick to reading self help books.

>> No.23070952

>>23065339
please just go back

>> No.23070970

>>23063141
Opening classics and reading them and saying to yourself GAY GAY GAY GAY PENIS. College retard.

>> No.23071196

Just another case of burgers having no /lit/ idols from their own country so they shill garbage books. My shithole of a country does the same thing, trying to pass it's bottom tier literature as masterpieces to kids in school. Nobody falls for it, though.

>> No.23071412

Ishmael is carried away with enthusiasm for the “sweet and unctuous” sperm. He squeezes all morning long, sentimentally describing his physical contact with the other sailors, whose hands he unintentionally gropes in the vat of sperm

>> No.23071429
File: 361 KB, 720x517, Screenshot_20240214-053241~2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23071429

>>23071412
That's Chapter 94: A Squeeze of the Hand

The next chapter, Chapter 95: The Cassock, Ishmael describes the whale's penis

>> No.23071461

>>23064729
>The onus isn't on us to prove that.
NTA and I largely agree Moby Dick is good but by most respectable standards of debate, you don't need to prove a negative statement unless evidence or logical argument has been presented to the contrary.

>> No.23071462

>>23071412
Ishmael's rhapsody about the pleasures of kneading the sperm with his fellow sailors is particularly striking, both for its obvious homoeroticism and for the remarkable conclusion that he draws from it. Ishmael realizes that the pleasures of squeezing sperm with the other sailors are as perfect as any happiness in life.

>> No.23071554

>>23069533
>I just don't enjoy the spastic circlejerk over classics.
That's fair, as long as it isn't you being juvenile in your kneejerk reaction that's prone to oppose the classics. As long as there's something more to that, and you've thought it through, it's fair play.

>> No.23071574

>>23063141
Moby Dick is hilarious

>> No.23071656
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23071656

>> No.23071671

>>23064841
Yes yes the transcendentalist period exisr.

>> No.23071695

>>23064841
If you love Melville, also try out his buddy and fellow Dark Romanticist Nathaniel Hawthorne. His four major novels are all amazing---elegant, brooding masterpieces of atmosphere, a dreamy and haunting lyricism, keen insights into the fitful murk that is human nature.

>> No.23071809

>>23071461
>unless evidence or logical argument has been presented to the contrary
Moby Dick widely being considered one of the best American novels if not the best is plenty of evidence. There's no debate here anyway. OP is playing the role of Spartacus or would-be revolutionary. You come at the king like that, you're gonna get fucking slapped, not a friendly debate. Type in "great American novels" on google and I guarantee you Moby Dick will be on at least half of those lists. Very few people (who aren't shitposting) would say "it sucks" and those who do are yeah probably largely illiterate, young, or stupid. You can not like it but to say it's bad is a risky move. It's a very hot take. That's like saying you don't like porterhouse or a really good vintage Bordeaux. That might be true for you but you're really just outing yourself as a philistine. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that but don't be surprised when people turn their nose up at you or laugh. Is there an element of snobbishness here? Sure. If you consider being well-read snobbish. Anyway, there's a reason that there is general consensus about the book's quality. People aren't just blindly swallowing poison because it makes them seem cultured as the OP suggests. What a ridiculous thing to suggest. That sort of critique can and frequently does apply to a lot of pop culture but I wouldn't consider Moby Dick pop culture. If anything it's almost fringe lit that somehow found its way to fame. Confessing that, I get why some people don't like Moby Dick because it's unorthodox in its delivery but Melville's other stuff is great too. Bartleby, Billy Budd, Benito Cereno. All shorter novels that follow a more traditional structure but I truly believe you would be lying if you said you didn't enjoy them or at least find them interesting. It's been 175 years since The Whale was written. Its place in the canon is secure. We who enjoy it and love the book are in the power position and hold hegemony here. You wanna overthrow the government? Okay but don't expect the government to justify itself to you. Go ahead, scream into the void. No one's listening. You're literally inside Moby Dick's stomach kek.

>> No.23071837

>>23071809
Good post all around.

>> No.23071841

Moby Dick is a lot like a spec ops selection course. It can be grueling and many are weeded out by the cetology chapters. Those who make it to the end are rewarded and join the ranks.

You want action? You want Queequeg? Put in the work, faggot.

>> No.23071848

>>23071841
It's not just that, all those meandering, seemingly irrelevant and "filler" parts of Ishamel's narration are one of the most interesting aspects of the novel and its very heart. But most people, as anon above you pointed out, get filtered by the novel's untypical structure. Everyone has had this picture of Moby Dick implanted in them by cultural osmosis and its various references and quotations of the novel, most notably Ahab, so they think they're gonna get on a simple adventure about one lunatic's hunt for vengeance and are then surprised there's so much more to this story and that it isn't as simple and conventional as you might initially assume reading the synopsis and hearing about it from other people.

>> No.23071869

I'm 200~ pages in and I can't put it down, the chapter about the whiteness of the whale is probably the highlight for me so far. But I need to finish it first before I can collect my thoughts on it

>> No.23071908

>>23071848
>all those meandering, seemingly irrelevant and "filler" parts of Ishamel's narration are one of the most interesting aspects of the novel and its very heart
This is true of all good literature. Plotfags need to self-immolate with their funkopops

>> No.23071934
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23071934

>>23063141

>> No.23072038

It's not good and pseuds who say it is are retarded mobkeys

>> No.23072595

>>23063141

Moby Dick has never been mentioned by famous writers or serious critics as a great novel.

>> No.23072616

>>23072595
>disregard me, I suck cocks
I mean, yeah you do. I don't know why you'd announce that on the internet, unless this is a fetish thing I'm playing into by replying.

>> No.23072625

>>23071656
Except it is.
It literally starts with Ishmael going: "if I don't find something to do, I'm going to go apeshit".

>> No.23072982

>>23072595
It is one of Clive Barker-s favorite novels.

>> No.23073025

>>23070903
>few chapters of Dick and it's over
>>23070254
>Halfway through the ship has a literal race-war
Man, the more I read this thread, the more based this book sounds. I have so far been reading this as kind of a side-quest, as I am studying and reading mainly Brothers Karamazov now, but I'll consider reading this more regurarly.

>> No.23073049

maybe you're more for the dolphins love

>> No.23073054

gotta be bait

>> No.23073066

>>23063141
>173 year old novel still manages to filter brainlets

>> No.23073068

>>23063141
>First of all, I don't care what dem homofag """scientists""" may tell you, but a whale is a fish.
*proceeds to elaborate 40 pages of the author's taxonomic understanding of different whales, based upon this premise, making you doubt absolutely everything that follows from the unreliable narrator's cetology*
kek. If you can't enjoy a longform shitpost when you see one, then I can't help you, anon.
I laughed endlessly reading this "dry" chapter.

>> No.23073088

>>23071412
>>23071429
You guys are just pretending to be retarded, right?
He's not talking about semen, he's talking about spermaceti, which is the sweet smelling oil that they harvest from the Whale's head.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermaceti

How can you seriously have read the book or even know anything about the book and not understand this?

>> No.23073126

>>23063141
reading the book itself, like the journey they take, is a long and sometimes uneventful one. but when it does heat up, boy does it heat up.

>> No.23073169

>>23073126
Takes hundred something pages to get to Ahab, and he does not disappoint.

>> No.23073276

>>23073126
>>23073169
This

>> No.23074144

>>23073088

He's not talking about semen, dummy. He's talking about sperm and how the men go under deck at night and bond by squeezing it together. The aroma of fresh sperm is amazing and Ishmael is enraptured by all the sperm flowing through their hands. The text is very clear about this.

>> No.23075344

>>23069021
Could have sworn I didn't learn russian to read it. Maybe what you meant to say is Herman Melville is the best efl author? If a translation into english can beat it then calling it the best english novel is very misleading. It gets mogged by translated Euro shit.

>> No.23075353
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23075353

>>23063141
When you get to the chapter about Ishmael up on the mast discoursing about life's great adventure that pulls one forever toward the horizon.

>> No.23075547

>>23075344
>If a translation into english can beat it then calling it the best english novel is very misleading. It gets mogged by translated Euro shit.
Written in the English language, stop being a pedantic ass.

>> No.23075689

>>23075344
Dumbass post

>> No.23076631
File: 136 KB, 710x740, zen motorcycle headed to Smithsonian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23076631

>>23063141
>So when does it get good?
It's never going to get good if you don't appreciate it already. Think of like an old-timey version of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
>it's about a cross country motorcycle trip that is mostly a mix of descriptions of the stuff he sees and of the maintenance he does on his motorcycle then all these discourses on philosophy
Moby Dick is the same thing just much lighter on the philosophy.... but the imaginative ramblings of Ishmael are still interesting to a good bit of people

>> No.23077246

/// We could hear the puppy yipping playfully in its kennel /// Prolonged use of alcohol also leads to cross-tolerance to other drugs, for example the barbiturates, so that the effectiveness of these compounds is reduced /// I came home laden with cardboard boxes /// However, as anyone who has experienced the bad egg smell will know, the unpleasant, putrid odour can make people feel sick, to the extent, sometimes, that they become sick /// I am not endeavouring to be difficult or in any way obstreperous /// Access to the manufacturing process is on a strictly need-to-know basis /// Ability and hard work cinched her success /// The cybercriminals are wily, and every time one internet portal closes, another opens /// But still he did not remain indifferent to a sincere feeling of love and respect and always distinguished it from idle and fulsome tittle-tattle /// All that bile, all the exaggeration, all the stuff that was not grounded in fact just kind of bubbled up, started surfacing /// Calvert was a pudgy older guy who wore thick horn-rimmed glasses and personified the lovable nebbish /// On a typical visit, we arrive with our group late morning, and spend 15 minutes in the parking lot on a sarong-tying lesson /// The grander the occasion, the larger the width of the hoop petticoat /// The vessel was repaired and scheduled to set sail again later in the month /// When the facts seemed cut and dried, why would the authorities be hesitant to release information? /// Pulling oil from the tar sands is costly, even more so when you tack transportation costs on top /// Many of the stories of these soon-to-be merchant princes are prosaic, but a few are as wild and woolly as the Gold Rush itself /// This impression is entirely consistent with the air of improvisation and sprezzatura which characterizes his whole performance /// The calyx encloses the ripe fruit, acting as a protective structure /// A judge can revoke those rights for an indeterminate amount of time, but the respondent always has the right to petition to have them restored /// The House Freedom Caucus is voicing its displeasure with how a slew of end-of-year legislative priorities are being handled /// Despite facing an array of difficult questions, the speaker showed remarkable aplomb and answered each one with confidence /// Mary Ann had made an effort at jazzing up the chilly modern interiors /// Results were obtained for arsenic, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, copper, lead, nickel, and zinc /// I am not keen about pylons, but that is neither here nor there //// I love shuffling through the fallen leaves /// An attempt has been made to ring-fence pensions from creditors if a company goes bankrupt /// At midday, with sporadic rain, many residents and visitors interviewed were somewhat blase about the danger ///

>> No.23077254

>>23063264
unironically lolita

>> No.23078123

>>23064841
>e four major romances were written that decade too:
>best american book
>one with women in it
Its moby dick for that reason. the greatest novel to summarize america isnt romance or women. its men of a brotherhood fighting nature to conquer it.