The Woman-Pill

[Anonymous No.23005331]

Was Ibn Arabi right in Fusus al-Hikam? Do women most perfectly reflect God? I now understand clearly Muhammad’s love for women. Do other books speak about this?

>For this reason, the Prophet loved women, because of the perfect witness of God in them, for the Real is never witnessed without materials, because in His Essence, He does not need the creatures. If witness of God’s Essence is impossible, and witness of Him occurs only through material, then the witness of the Real in women is the greatest and the most perfect witness. The strongest union is sexual intercourse, which resembles God’s turning to the one whom He created in His image in order to make him his vicegerent, so that He might see Himself in him.

[Anonymous No.23005374]

>>23005331
In Shia hadiths, there are entire chapters from the imams and the prophet about liking women and the detestability of not liking them.

There is a famous story of one of the greatest companions of the prophet (I think Uthman ibn Madh'un, who Imam Ali named his son after) who would spend all night praying to God instead of touching his wife. His wife went to the prophet complaining, and the prophet reprimanded the companion and told him if he truly wants to follow his Sunnah (the way of the prophet) he should satisfy his women.

Also in Shia hadiths a man with no healthy jealousy towards his wife (a cuck) will never smell paradise lol.

[Anonymous No.23005377]

>>23005331
The Simp Doctrine

[Anonymous No.23005383]

>>23005374
Wow, it sounds like I’ve been unfairly ignoring the Shia.

[Anonymous No.23005508]

>>23005331
The Bible is the same way, in that women are actually exalted symbolically / mystically

[Anonymous No.23005524]

>>23005331
>>23005374
was Mohammed loving God when he raped a 11 year old? get a hold of yourselves

[Anonymous No.23005536]

>>23005524
Both Jewsus and Muhammad can eat shit in hell.
>>23005374
Women are property, I don't agree.
>>23005331
Fuck all of Abrahamism, and fuck you.

I don't give a shit about Abrahamism beyond using it to manipulate others into sectarian conflict in order to expand power. At the end of the day, only power matters in this plane of existence, and I'll use power to mercilessly slaughter all of my enemies, including all of you.

Sick and tired of you "people", Jew-worshiping and moon-worshiping trash and cucks to Jews or arabs. All of you disgust me.

[Anonymous No.23005603]

>>23005331
God came down as a man.

[Anonymous No.23005625]

>>23005536
women were property under all forms of abrahamism too. only as property can women be truly respected, otherwise they take the path of least resistance and whore out (especially with the pill) which naturally removes the incentive for men to participate in society.

but the bigger problem is that thanks to the 20th century we live in an era in with no hope so even if all that shit was fixed, we don't seem to have a future as a species. in a way buddhistanon, you have already won. the soul of man has been snuffed out and the mind of man reconstructed. It's Over.

[Anonymous No.23005644]

>>23005536
Oh my, I bow to you, mr. psycopathical powerful manipulator! You're the chosen one who will liberate the marvel roblox server from those pesky abrahamics!

[Anonymous No.23005873]

>>23005524
If you did a few seconds of thinking instead of spouting out nonesense you would have seen that one of the people you are replying to is a Shia who do not believe that.

They don't believe Muhammad married Aisha when she was a kid, and even say the supposed story of her marriage according to Sunnis is an unislamic marriage. And instead believe it was lies attributed to the prophet by the early governments who wanted to build up Aisha and attack the family of the prophet (Ahl Al-Bayt).

[Anonymous No.23005895]

It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allah ibn ‘Abbas said: “I was shown Hell and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it. And I saw that the majority of its people are women.” They said, “Why, O Messenger of Allah?” He said, “Because of their ingratitude (kufr).” It was said, “Are they ungrateful to Allah?” He said, “They are ungrateful to their companions (husbands) and ungrateful for good treatment. If you are kind to one of them for a lifetime then she sees one (undesirable) thing in you, she will say, ‘I have never had anything good from you.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 1052)

[Anonymous No.23005945]

>>23005331
>Was Ibn Arabi right in Fusus al-Hikam?
NO, he was a simp. Sexual pleasures is a distraction from the presence of God. It's true that you can try to engage in sex in a spiritual manner but this is inferior to pure insight/contemplation as anything that directs one's attention to outwards objects is directing attention away from God, to say sex is the highest form of unity is a perversion or misunderstanding of spirituality.

[Anonymous No.23005958]

>>23005331
Boy do I miss the Islam free days of this website. Don't you people have an Arabian world site you can use? No, he was not right, and everywhere man thinks in this way, civilization will not be born.

[Anonymous No.23006015]

>>23005873
lol sure

[Anonymous No.23006029]

If Cyrus/Kourosh could see a bit into the future, he would have had Jews massacred, and that way there would be no Christcuckery, Pisslam, or J*daism.

[Anonymous No.23006051]

>>23005958
I assume none of us are arabs.

[Anonymous No.23006054]

>>23006051
Arabs and Jews are the same, and all of West Eurasia is spiritually Arabic or Jewish.

[Anonymous No.23006067]

Mohammad was a pedophile who had ten wives. maybe he thought lolis represented god or something because it seems that he got a new one as quickly as they get old.

[Anonymous No.23006106]

>>23006067
Almost all of his wives are older and widows?

[Anonymous No.23006737]

>>23005524
Look into Joshua Little's critical analysis of the Aisha age narrative and more broadly the reliability of hadiths, especially those regarding her marital age.
Long story short: she was probably older, like mid teens which is normal. As odd as it sounds, the claims that she was 9 was probably Sunni propoganda.

But even if you don't buy any of that and stick with her truly being 9 when the marriage was consummated, the fact remains that she had an entire lifetime of being a prolific figure in the community, is the source of countless hadiths and information about the Prophet. If she felt wronged by the affair or like he was unkind to her in any way, that would shine through in her narrations SOMEWHERE. tl;dr: if she was raped, she liked it

[Anonymous No.23006740]

>>23006067
All of his wives except Aisha were older widows.
If you want to be a hater at least skim wikipedia before you shitpost about a topic.

[Anonymous No.23007735]

>>23005331
Ibn Arabi's Fusus really is an amazing book and an ingenious defense of the Islamic faith. Nietzsche would have converted to Islam after reading this.

[Anonymous No.23007743]

>>23005945
This is the exact kind of world denying nihilism that Ibn Arabi refutes time and time again.

[Anonymous No.23007786]

>>23007743
That’s not an argument you filthy dumb coomer, and saying that a higher form of spiritual communion or unity exists beyond sex isn’t world-denying either. Reducing spirituality to coomer-business is the real nihilism.

[Anonymous No.23008239]

>>23007735
It’s very dense and filters me a bit, but the sections that I read on Jesus were very impressive for me as a Christian

[Anonymous No.23008247]

>>23005331
But I thought Islam hated women

[Anonymous No.23008256]

>>23006067
>because it seems that he got a new one as quickly as they get old.
The same Muhammad who bore all of his children except one to Khadijah? Cucks like you can’t cope with the fact that Muhammad had a loving marriage with Aisha, died in her arms, and that she was a politically active and influential Muslim woman who never wavered in supporting her late husband

[Anonymous No.23008283]

>>23008247
Muhammad’s wives were pretty active in a worldly sense in politics, trade, and community life. Since Muhammad outlawed female infanticide, and allowed women. There were many female sufis who were very influence as well, like Rabia—women had more rights in divorce and with their dowers than the Christian world as well. It wasn’t a feminist paradise, but Islam being woman-hating is a meme

[Anonymous No.23008626]

Is there a word for being a weeb for everything Islamic while not being a Muslim yourself?
>tfw love Muhammad
>tfw love the Sira
>tfw love Sufis
>tfw love hijabis
>tfw love Abbasid era
>tfw have even memorized short surahs

[Anonymous No.23008647]

>>23005331
If that were all true, sex slavery would not be permissible.

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20802/intercourse-with-a-slave-woman-is-not-regarded-as-zina-adultery
>Allaah has permitted intimacy with a slave woman if the man owns her.

[Anonymous No.23008676]

>>23008647
>islamQA

[Anonymous No.23008686]

>>23008647
In the Quran it emphasizes fairer treatment of slave and Muhammad (pbuh) pushed to even free them. Unless no joke he was a woman’s advocate

[Anonymous No.23008935]

>>23008626
Based hijabi enjoyer

[Anonymous No.23008950]

>>23008626
When you reach the point of memorizing the Quran you might as well convert

[Anonymous No.23009003]

>>23008626
>hijabis
Why does no one talk about this? I’m obsessed with women in hijabs to the point it might even be a sexual fetish that I hope to one day explore with someone and I think it’s beautiful for its modesty and looks good. Wish it was common in the west

[Anonymous No.23009059]

>>23005331
Muhammad was just a coomer. I like sexy girls too, but equating them with god is cringe.

[Anonymous No.23009088]

>>23008256
except that one time he got cucked by her with sawfan.

[Anonymous No.23009126]

>>23008247
if a woman cheats on her husband she gets stoned to death, a man does the same he gets away with a beating and exile. a man can marry multiple women when a woman can't. witness of two women is considered to be equal to the testimony of one man. men are promised women, practically sex slaves in heaven. as for women no such prize is mentioned.

also: "As for women of whom you fear rebellion, convince them, and leave them apart in beds, and beat them. Then, if they obey you, do not seek a way against them. Surely, Allah is the Highest, the Greatest." you are allowed to beat them.

there is a lot of rhetoric that goes around to justify all the bullshit, like the translations differ and it doesn't say 'beat' in the ayah etc., it's usual method of religious people to misrepresent their desert religion but that is not the truth. just look at any islamic country and how they treat women there. does it look like they are enjoying their time under sharia?

[Anonymous No.23009214]

>>23005331
Islam is poison

[Anonymous No.23009351]

>>23005377
spbp

[Anonymous No.23009538]

>>23009003
Post hijabi sloots

[Anonymous No.23009565]

>>23005331
>>23005374
Based???

[Anonymous No.23009593]

>>23008935
>>23009003
>>23009538
>tfw no modest hijabi zawja

[Anonymous No.23009606]

I support women because feminism is the only good thing happening from 200 years of democracy.
Feminism is good because it destroy the grotesque male narrative that men are the stronger sex. The truth is that women sit at the top of the sex market. Women are sex capitalists. It's women who organize the competition . It's men who compete for women and not women who compete for men. So they are right to be very strict about the rules. And since they are the queens, and 99% of men just live to provide for them, they have the luxury of rebuking any male quest they want and imposing on men various duties.
The even bigger picture is that Men never really managed to tame the female sexual cravings. Women cannot be contained in coats of conventions, the female sexual libido is too strong and too violent for this. A women is pure sexual energy. When she discovers this, when she peels off the phony social layers, she merges with her true whorish self and she will never ever be the same.
This is why all societies are flawed inherently. And it doesn't help that all men are eager to please women sexually and non-sexually. democracy is even worse.

[Anonymous No.23009770]

>>23005331
This is true. I am completely redpilled on the nature of women and their behaviors, but looking at the design of a beautiful woman is a form of contemplating God’s design and glimpsing eternal beauty

[Anonymous No.23009779]

>>23008626
based orientalist?

[Anonymous No.23009808]

>>23005331
Its a common theme in Islamic literature. e.g. Ibn Arabi compares the experience of self-annihilation/enlightenment (fana) to orgasming inside a woman. In Ghazzali's books and again in poetry God is often depicted as a woman or understood through analogies to a female beloved as well as a male bishounen type.

A common Sufi practice before modern times was gazing at beautiful women or beautiful male youths as a means of contemplating the divine (dhikr) through which people could experience God.

>>23005945
>sex is le bad
Whatever christcuck kys

[Anonymous No.23009976]

>>23005331
This is true. I am completely redpilled on the nature of women and their behaviors, but looking at the design of a beautiful woman is a form of contemplating God’s design and glimpsing eternal beauty

[Anonymous No.23010003]

>>23005945
Mainstream Christianity is crypto-gnostic even though they blather about the incarnation redeeming matter, yet they still hate sex, hate women and hate the idea that they can reflect God and that houris await the righteous in heaven because sex is fundamentally good

[Anonymous No.23010014]

It's interesting how God is depicted as being male when a woman makes more sense in the idea of giving birth to humans and caring for them.

[Anonymous No.23010024]

>>23010014
it definitely makes sense for a woman to be god considering how true nature of reality is evil and there is no justice. only the worst and most violent has gets to be the favorite of it.

[Anonymous No.23010047]

>>23010014
Abdal Hakim Murad (Tim Winter) talks about God’s relation to gender in Islam in this talk, and how in Islam God is sometimes described in quite feminine attributes. For example, God is described as al-Rahman, the merciful / compassionate, and how this is linked with the same word as ‘rahim’, meaning ‘womb’
https://youtu.be/KTTDqBOHPEU

>Umar ibn al-Khattab reported: Some prisoners of war were brought to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and a nursing woman was among them. Whenever she found a child among the prisoners, she would take it to her chest and nurse it. The Prophet said to us, “Do you think this woman would throw her child into the fire?” We said, “No, not if she was able to stop it.” The Prophet said, “Allah is more merciful to His servants than this mother is to her child.”

[Anonymous No.23010333]

>>23009593
>>23009538
NEED A HIJABI WIFE SO BAD

[Anonymous No.23010580]

>>23009808
I didn’t say sex was bad and nor am I Christian you dumb coomer, my post triggered 3 different people but nobody actually engaged with the point that I made because you’re seething.

[Anonymous No.23010632]

I have also thought something similar, that women, not the physical one that we(or atleast I) daily interact with, but the "concept" of a woman is something that is "pure" and "good". I'd like to delve further into this and get some better reason for my beliefs than "I just feel like it haha" but I'm afraid It'll take me a few years to get there. Interestingly enough my interest in and positive opinion of the concept of women has only emerged after spending a few years without masturbation, porn nor sexual relation. It is good to be able to see women from a perspective that is completely devoid of lust.
Do (You) perhaps have any recommended literature that follows along the lines of what I've been thinking? I'd like to read more on the subject, infact even if it differs from my opinion, but I don't know how to search for such a book.

[Anonymous No.23010645]

>>23005536
>Women are property
So are you. You are property of your parents.

[Anonymous No.23011148]

>>23005374
Shias are so based goddamn

[Anonymous No.23011189]

>>23010333
It’s halal to have up to four

[Anonymous No.23011192]

>>23011148
What about Ismailis? Having a living imam is based by definition, but I feel like they take the batin stuff too far

[Anonymous No.23011309]

>>23005331
sounds like the guy liked to fuck

[Anonymous No.23011358]

>>23010047
This guy is interesting. If he wanted to, he could become a very popular intellectual even to people who are not Muslim. I came across a video of him talking about Star Wars and it was actually insightful. He was also on a philosophy podcast

[Anonymous No.23011424]

>>23011358
I’ve really enjoyed listening to him. I’ve listened to countless hours of him, desu. His series on the Sira (9 lectures) through Cambridge Muslim College was dense with good info. It cost money but I enjoyed it.

I’d be really curious to hear him talk on Star Wars

[Anonymous No.23011441]

>>23011358
>>23011424
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11351280/Scorning-the-Prophet-goes-beyond-free-speech-its-an-act-of-violence.html

[Anonymous No.23011455]

>>23011441
>Mocking Rasul Allah (pbuh) is an act of violence

[Anonymous No.23011483]

>>23011424
>Star Wars
https://youtu.be/3kDbqABvEN0

[Anonymous No.23011495]

>>23011441
Well, what do you expect? All Muslims believe that

[Anonymous No.23011525]

>>23010333
That’s it I’m converting and moving to Malaysia

[Anonymous No.23012156]

>>23005331
>Abr*hamists invented gynocentrism
At last I truly see.

[Anonymous No.23012164]

>>23009126
Who cares? Are you a woman? No? Then stfu feminized faggot.

[Anonymous No.23012720]

>>23011192
Shia have always been cringe across the board. Classical Sunnism w/ Tasawwuf is the pinnacle of Islam

[Anonymous No.23013421]

>>23005331
So true.

[Anonymous No.23013431]

>>23005895
He really was sooky husband kek. If you didn't want to deal with woman issues why'd you marry eleven of them mate.

[Anonymous No.23013434]

>>23005945
Diotima has made you a eunuch. Shame shame shame. Try playing the man.

[Anonymous No.23013446]

>>23005958
Excuse me this is the based French perverts picking the fun parts from the Sufi-menu and discarding all the dreary Islamic dross. Nothing at all to do with Arabs or Islam.

[Anonymous No.23013464]

>>23009003
They were made to wear hijabs because Aisha keep eyeing off the men who came to visit Muhammad at his house. The "four witnesses" to adultery/rape rule was also made up because Aisha eloped into the desert with some strange men, which would have required she be stoned, but less than four people witnessed it so Muhammad invented a new rule for her to evade the charge on an evidentiary technicality.

[Anonymous No.23013471]

>>23009808
Mostly wine serving boys:
https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/homosexuality-iii

[Anonymous No.23013484]

>>23013471
Stems from Greek cultural influence.

[ENTJ No.23013490]

>>23013464
Fucking lol pic or it didn’t happen the post

[Anonymous No.23013506]

>>23013484
Probably a steppe tradition universal to the Indo-Evropeans, and passed on to the Arab and Turk nomads living similar raid-and-rape lifestyles.

[Anonymous No.23013892]

>>23013421
What did he mean by this unironically?

[Anonymous No.23014029]

>>23005536
still in high school?

[Anonymous No.23014036]

>>23013892
The pride of the peacock is the glory of God.
The lust of the goat is the bounty of God.
The wrath of the lion is the wisdom of God.
The nakedness of woman is the work of God.

[Anonymous No.23014044]

>>23005945
As the catterpiller chooses the fairest leaves to lay her eggs on, so the priest lays his curse on the fairest joys.

[Anonymous No.23014082]

>>23013421
>>23014036
William Blake seems pretty based.
>>23014044
Deep

[Anonymous No.23014148]

>>23005331
>Do women most perfectly reflect God?
Insofar as they are a reflection of Al-Haqq

[γρηγορεύω !!J89a5VVZH9B No.23014234]

>>23011189

[γρηγορεύω !!J89a5VVZH9B No.23014244]

>>23010632
The "pure" and "good" woman is a projection of man's higher self onto base matter. Weininger writes about this in the "Erotics and Aesthetics" chapter of the Second Part of GESCHLECHT UND CHARAKTER/SEX AND CHARACTER (1903).

[Anonymous No.23014266]

>>23005331
>Muhammad’s love for women.
She was nine.

[Anonymous No.23014268]

>>23014234
Inshallah

[Anonymous No.23014271]

>>23014266
Don’t look up the history of the AoC in America lol

[Anonymous No.23014386]

>>23005331
There is no God. Women are more like the moon in the sense that they are a mere surface that reflects the light of the sun, men being like the sun. But for this reason, men love women, and hating women is indeed unbecoming and pathetic of a man; it indicates that he lacks the ability to generate his own light for which women can bask in reflecting.

[Anonymous No.23014454]

>>23014386
Based

[Anonymous No.23014608]

>>23014044
Sauce?

[Anonymous No.23014626]

>>23014386
>There is no God
Stopped reading there

[Anonymous No.23014721]

O Allah! If I worship You for fear of Hell, burn me in Hell, and if I worship You in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise. But if I worship You for Your Own sake, grudge me not Your everlasting Beauty.

[Anonymous No.23014952]

How far off from this particular Ibn Arabi strain of thought is the Allawi-an (Mostaganem not Iran) sufi sect letting women oftentimes lead prayers instead of men?

[Anonymous No.23015166]

>>23014386
>Women are more like the moon in the sense that they are a mere surface that reflects the light of the sun, men being like the sun
And what do men reflect?

[Anonymous No.23015255]

>>23015166
God's will lowkey

[Anonymous No.23015979]

>>23005331
Read the Divine Comedy

[Anonymous No.23016013]

don't read Murakami

[Anonymous No.23016015]

>>23007735
I'm an Arab but I find it easier to read it in English due to how archaic the language is.
Any araboos here that have attempted to read in it's original language? Is there an audiobook to help me out?

[Anonymous No.23016442]

>>23005331
No, how can the passive reflect the active? Women reflect the universe and men reflect God's creative activity. True, humans cannot exist without women in the same way that art cannot exist with an underlying material substrate, but the beauty in Mona Lisa is not in the paint used by da Vinci, the magnanimity in Rumi's Masnavi is not in the letters used or in the paper that it is written on, the reason those things are great is because of the type and presence of the active agent in manipulating the underlying passive material substrate.

[Anonymous No.23017647]

>>23014626
You could try

[Anonymous No.23017714]

>>23016015
I am an Arab too and I also find it easier when translated to English, but I obviously prefer reading it in Arabic because arabic is such a beautiful language yk? It is worth it to get over the difficulty so you can experience the sublime. Same with Nahj Al-Balagha and Al-Sahiffa Al-Sajjadiyya.

[Anonymous No.23017732]

>>23014721
>When asked why she performed a thousand ritual prostrations both during the day and at night, she is said to have answered, "I desire no reward for it; I do it so that the Messenger of God, may God bless him and give him peace, will delight in it on the day of Resurrection and say to the prophets, 'Take note of what a woman of my community has accomplished.'

The quote from Rabia also reminds me of this saying from Imam Ali a.s in Nahj Al-Balagha

>A group of people worshipped Allah out of desire for reward; this is the worship of traders.
>Another group worshipped out of fear, this is the worship of slaves.
>Yet another group worshipped Allah out of gratefulness. This is the worship of free men.

[Anonymous No.23017836]

>>23014386
>>23016442
These takes are just puffed up arrogence. Women are more social, yes. But both men and women are agents and intersubjective beings that form and are formed by society and others. If you want a bro-tier example, how many of your male friends completely change in chracter and behaviour once they settle down with a woman? How many men completely change once they have kids and become fathers? Are they mere passive lunar fields of their sun-like wives and children, moulded by the active and radiant female and child agents? They are in part, we all are formed in our intersubjective relations, but we also form ourselves and others by our own agency in those relations, and as we relate to ourselves, and so do women. To say otherwise is hubris and dumb pride.

[Anonymous No.23017950]

>>23017732
Reading things like this makes it very difficult to say that all Muslims go to hell as a Christian. I’ve noticed from reading the Sufis, whether Rabia, al-Ghazali or Bistami, or Junayd, etc that they say many of the same things that Christian mystics and spiritual writers do, up to the highest levels of love and devotion for God, to the point where it is almost absurd for me to deny that they love God and know God.

[Anonymous No.23017969]

>>23017836
I do see your point and agree that the reductive sun-moon distinctions doesn't show the whole picture and that interpersonal dynamics are more complicated.
But the example you gave would be consistent with the masculine-feminine dynamics posited; if a man were to "settle down" with a woman in the way that we commonly understand it, he would indeed be forsaking his creative and masculine energy and taking on a more feminine passive role. This is because settling down has the connotations of being tamed by femininity. However, if a man were to enter relations with a woman with the intention to lead her and the family, he would be true to his masculine active qualities. The distinctions are subtle as in both cases, as you said, the man changes after marriage/kids, however in one case the change is passive and the other is active. This doesn't refute your point above the intersubjectivity of things, but offers that there is still some internal consistency in the original view posted.

[Anonymous No.23018002]

>>23017969
Your engaging in circular reasoning and incorrectly using an essential quality, sex/gender, as a name for a behavioral quality of activity/self-actualisation/leadership, which as you admit are behaviours independent of sex that both sexes do. You're also not getting how recognition works in intersubjectivity, and that it will always involve both being active and being acted upon. There's no discrete binary of active/passive, all relations will involve both forming and being formed, being both active force and passive plastic. It's hubris and dumb ignorance to say, "I am completely self-determined and I deny you women any agency." The very concept of intersubjectivity demands the agency of the other to be capable of recognising you, you can't be intersubjective with a brick wall. And you are always been formed by others in your relations, to deny so is to delude yourself and be ignorant of how you come into being.

[Anonymous No.23018093]

>>23017836
I'm the second guy you responded to, first, either the labels "man" or "masculine" and "woman" or "feminine" have an objective meaning or they do not. If they do not, then Ibn Arabi's simping is also incoherent, there would be nothing in women as such to praise because there is no "woman" as such. On the other hand, if there is objective meaning, then surely the only objective definition of "masculinity" is to be the active agent and "femininity" is to be the passive agent. This is obvious and can be explained if necessary.

Thus, it is fair to say that women (in the ideal sense) reflect the passive agent and man, the active agent. True, individual women and individual men may display more or less masculine or feminine traits, but that doesn't mean there is no such thing as man or woman in the ideal sense. This is just Evola's view in the Metaphysics of Sex

[Anonymous No.23018143]

>>23018093
Masculine and feminine are qualities of being a man and being a woman respectively. To be active is a quality of both. The prideful delusion is to assign activity uniquely to man and masculine, and passivity uniquely to woman and feminine.

[Anonymous No.23018236]

>>23018002
>There's no discrete binary of active/passive, all relations will involve both forming and being formed, being both active force and passive plastic
Its very prideful and hubris filled of you to assume that you are saying anything new here, when most of the participants of the thread have implicitly acknowledged this potential problem and moved on.

[Anonymous No.23018254]

>>23018143
Masculine and feminine are not merely essential qualities as they pertain to this discussion you autist, please understand the intended meaning of words before you sperg out about intersubjectivity.
Metaphysics is truly beyond the reach of the peasant mind.

[Anonymous No.23018589]

>>23005331
It’s not even worth talking about how Islam views women. They’re gonna be secularized sooner or later anyways no matter how hard they resist. Your women won’t wear hijab, they will outpace all men and Islam will go the way of Christianity. Wearing a moon and star necklace over their exposed breasts and call themselves proud believers like Christians do with the cross. This is your future.

[Anonymous No.23018680]

>>23018589
>thinking liberalism will exist in a century
LMAO

[Anonymous No.23018768]

>>23018680
>thinking it won’t
Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arabia say hi. They don’t want Islam anymore. They’re also the most historically important Muslim countries on the planet.

[Anonymous No.23018771]

>>23005331
>woman-pill
please just say you're straight before i kill myself with a 'suicide-pill'

[Anonymous No.23019035]

>>23005945
Nigga god commanded us to have lots of children and gave us certain ways to do it

[Anonymous No.23019042]

>>23005374
Part of me truly and deeply loves and adores everything about women.
The other part of me is the exact opposite, and I want to engage in wanton violence against them.
I don't know, I guess I'm kind of fucked up.

[Anonymous No.23019440]

>>23019042
This is normal in our environment where women misbehave and are turned into pseudo-men by radical feminists

[Anonymous No.23019649]

>>23018589
Muslims have a secret weapon
Shitskin IQ

[Anonymous No.23019656]

>>23018589
I am arab. The women are way more religious than the men lmao

Also the necklance thing is so weird. One of my exes would suck me off without even removing her cross. Wtf have some respect for your religion.

[Anonymous No.23019661]

>>23019656
She was white as you can probably guess

[Anonymous No.23020085]

>>23019649
IQ is the biggest white cope on the planet. I say this as a white man. There is such a thing as being TOO smart. Whites nowadays are the most destructive, self-harming and society-ruining group on the planet. The enlightenment, French Revolution, feminism, gay rights, transgenderism, Jewish emancipation, deism, liberalism, Protestantism. All of it comes from White countries.

I’m not claiming all White people are evil or even that most of them. It’s that we’re dupes, while the ‘low IQ’ brown man will continue to beat their wives, have tons of children, hate faggots and be religious. Who is truly smarter?

[Anonymous No.23020125]

>>23019649
Which country? Some of them have decent *average* IQs.
Btw, whites are special due to large standard deviation, which leads to either extremely smart or dumb people (rarely in-between).

[Anonymous No.23020135]

>>23013434
>if you think there is a higher state of spiritual understanding attainable through knowledge/gnosis over anything sex-related then you are a eunuch
imagine being this dumb

[Anonymous No.23020142]

>>23020085
Uhh... Based?

[Anonymous No.23020188]

>>23019661
>>23019656
Based muslim arab chad

[Anonymous No.23020305]

>>23005536
fag alert

[Anonymous No.23020325]

>>23020188
Take the Ibn Qutaybah pill

[Anonymous No.23020366]

>>23020325
Arabs are cool but I'm good lmao

[Anonymous No.23020385]

>>23019661
>>23019656
Kek

[Anonymous No.23020400]

it's genetically coded simping. i love women as a concept. i hate individual women. muse on it

[Anonymous No.23020527]

>>23008256
Muhammad saww did not have a loving marriage with Aisha, but he had patience with her due to his high moral character. He did not die in her arms, he died in the house of Fatima a.s. Her political activity was fighting Ahl Al-Bayt such as by literally waging war against Imam Ali a.s, or by forging fake hadiths lowering the status of the prophet by saying he unislamically married her when she was six, or that he was bewitched, or that he used to touch her when she had menses.
God bless Umm Salama, a truly pious wife who abided by the Quran and never wavered in her support for Ahl Al-Bayt. Who stood by Fatima on fadak, sent two of her sons to fight with Ali, supported Imam Al-Hasan, and was trusted by Imam Husain so much that she held the items of imamate when he went to Karbala' and gave them to Imam Zain Al-Abideen. Truly Imam Al-Hasan and Ammar ibn Yassir were correct when they said in "Sahih" Bukhari 7100
>Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her (`Aisha).

You can either ignore the thaqalayn and follow Aisha, Hafsa, and Umm Habiba, may God forgive them, or you can hold fast to the thaqalayn and follow the blessed wives such as Khadija, Umm Salama, Maymuna, and Zaynab.

[Anonymous No.23021397]

>>23020400
You’ve stopped enjoying shadows on the wall and have come to contemplate the eternal forns. This is what anime is a gateway too

[Anonymous No.23021419]

>>23020527
Based and true

[Anonymous No.23021536]

Arab-Teutonic simpness the world.

[Anonymous No.23021545]

St. Anthony thought that Islam developed from the cult of Aphrodite IIRC. That religion always had these tendencies.

[Anonymous No.23021577]

>>23014036
This is basically proof that the intellectual rift between paganism and abrahamism is meaningless semantics. At its esoteric core, the religious impulse is completely unified.

[Anonymous No.23021579]

>>23021577
I don't think William Blake is a good representative of Christian doctrine tbf.

[Anonymous No.23021865]

>>23014952
Ibn Arabi said women can lead the prayer.

[Anonymous No.23021874]

>>23021577
There are two permutations of monotheism. All monotheism devalues the importance of the world (even if saying this life is of utmost meaning and importance), but what we can see between Christianity and Islam is two responses to the world. The traditional Christian response is modeled after Jesus. This world is not important. Be prepared to forego family, relations with women—basically asceticism and monasticism. This was the spiritual life par excellence in traditional Christianity. Even today, Catholics will call priests and monks followers of ‘religious life’, as opposed to laity in the world. On top of this, the world is corrupted and fallen in some way, even more reason to turn away. It is under the power of the devil, and we are radically depraved by sin.

Islam is another approach to monotheism. We are not radically depraved, even if we have become heedless and have strayed from our fitrah / true nature. Islam views the world as more fundamentally good, the Qur’an is full of meditations on the signs of God in nature, etc. There is a hadith which was narrated in which Muhammad said that those who do not marry are not of his Ummah. Muhammad was also famously a lover of women, sweets, and food. But also had an ascetic and otherworldly unattachment to the world. There is another hadith in which he slept regularly on a rough mat, and when asked about it, he said this world is like a tree a traveler stops under, only to move on in the morning. Muhammad is the balanced disattachment mixed with enjoyment of God’s pleasures and gifts in creation rather than self-denial. We can see this in the Christian tradition to a lesser extent from the OT material.

Christianity more represents the ‘sick man’ spiritual that William James talks about, while Muhammad preached a more healthy-minded spirituality, to use his words (and I, as he, use these words without any value-laden sense)

[Anonymous No.23021932]

>>23021545
Where can one read about it?

[Anonymous No.23021967]

>>23021932
He’s talking about John of Damascus, who thought ‘Allahu Akbar’ referred to Aphrodite because ‘akbar’ sounded like some name of Aphrodite to him. It’s a grug brain critique of Islam
http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

[Anonymous No.23022031]

>>23021967
>because ‘akbar’ sounded like some name of Aphrodite to him
kek
I really enjoy this kind of retardation. During the War on Terror, there were some local imams who boycotted Pepsi because they believed the name stood for "Pay Every Penny to Save Israel". I mean, Pepsi Co probably does support Israel but I doubt its part of their founding ethos.
Good to know John of Damascus was a similar flavour of smooth brain.

[Anonymous No.23022107]

>>23021874
>Islam had a more healthy attitude to sexuality
right up until the mandatory genital mutilation that forever dampens sexual pleasure

[Anonymous No.23022155]

>>23021967
I think it's because the Kaaba was originally a temple of "Aphrodite" (meaning Arabian sex goddesses seen via interpretatio graeca).

[Anonymous No.23022260]

>>23022155
Not even true, the main idol of the Kaaba was Hubal. There were lots of other idols, and even pictures of Abraham and Jesus + Mary there

[Anonymous No.23022272]

>>23022031
>but I doubt its part of their founding ethos.
That's the founding ethos of every company and corporation in America, since the founding ethos of America is pay ever penny to save Israel.
Don't look up the masonic and/or Jewish background of the founding fathers.

[Anonymous No.23022273]

>>23022260
Cope. Even the hadith mention women rubbing their vaginas on the stone.

[Anonymous No.23022274]

>>23022107
Still a more healthy view than sleeping around with strangers, spreading STDs, having anal sex and displaying filth all over the screens and in music.

[Anonymous No.23022303]

>>23022273
No cope, obviously the Kaaba was full of degeneracy before Islam triumphed there. Naked women used to circumambulate it. There’s no major Aphrodite link though. John of Damascus is coping

[Anonymous No.23022324]

>>23022303
Herodotus said the same.

>According to the 5th century BCE Greek historian Herodotus, Orotalt (Ancient Greek: Ὀροτάλτ) was a god of pre-Islamic Arabia whom he identified with the Greek god Dionysus:
>They believe in no other gods except Dionysus and the Heavenly Aphrodite; and they say that they wear their hair as Dionysus does his, cutting it round the head and shaving the temples. They call Dionysus, Orotalt; and Aphrodite, Alilat.[1]

[Anonymous No.23022365]

>>23021874
This is pretty much Ibn Arabi's argument (though there's more to it) that he makes in the Fusus chapter on Muhammad. He cites a hadith saying Muhammad said he loved women, perfume, and prayer, and goes on to say this is why Muhammad is the greatest prophet with the most comprehensive understanding of God's names etc.

It's also interesting that Ibn Arabi affirms a trinitarian nature to existence/universe, echoing the Pythagoreans that 3 is the first solitary/odd number, but that God is ultimately above this trinity.

[Anonymous No.23022371]

>>23022274
True but it's not like those are the only two options, far from it

[Anonymous No.23022376]

>>23022324
I’m not denying that the Arabs worship some sort of deity akin to Aphrodite. I’m saying that John of Damascus is a retard for thinking ‘Allahu akbar’ has something to do with Aphrodite. It’s on the level of ‘the pope has a fish hat’ conspiracies

[Anonymous No.23022379]

Also, Ibn Arabi makes a big deal about the word for "essence" in Arabic being feminine.

[Anonymous No.23022388]

How do I not get filtered by Ibn Arabi? I’ve read the Qur’an, but he’s still pretty difficult

[Anonymous No.23022547]

>>23022376
It's not even what he said. He was talking about the idol in the Kaaba.

[Anonymous No.23023564]

>>23022388
Ignore commentary about him. He's really not that difficult. His writing style will click and you'll see that he writes in an intuitive way that skips over a lot of filler you find in western philosophy.

A lot of commentary in English about Ibn Arabi is really bad. Lots of skim reading hippy shit and brainlet Guenonianisms.

[Anonymous No.23023749]

>>23023564
Sufism in general for some reason is a magnet for hippies and weirdos, I don’t know why. Reading actual accounts of people like Abu Yazid al-Bistami, for example, shows he was strict about shariah and ritual purity in prayer—quite different from what a lot of Western presentations show. I’ve even heard that some Rumi translations try to downplay his Islamic character. Ridiculous stuff

[Anonymous No.23024417]

>>23019656
>The women are way more religious than the men lmao
I don't know why people don't understand this

[Anonymous No.23026189]

>>23005945
coperoni

[Anonymous No.23026679]

>>23026189
they hated him, for he spoke the truth

[Anonymous No.23026874]

>>23026679
Simping is based and I’m tired of pretending it’s not. God designed me to make cute girls happy and to do things for them

[Anonymous No.23026961]

>>23005331
>tldr : I obtain any spiritual experimental knowledge in islam so I'm a coomer like my "prophet".
Quite a revealing statement. Of course I would be a simp coomer like him if we didn't hope to get closer to God in this life and the next.
But the fact is chirstians can experience God, more than women, and things far better. And coomer are too distracted to even notice that.

[Anonymous No.23026980]

>>23005524
Yes.

[Anonymous No.23027006]

>>23026961
>tldr : I cannot obtain any spiritual experimental knowledge in islam so I'm a coomer like my "prophet".*

[Anonymous No.23027023]

>>23005377
This.
ibn arabi saying Christ is imperfect being Mohammed was a coomer is very revealing. It's just a materialist religion, the best thing they think about is sex. He even admit God cannot be seen without the gross matter... on par with the kamasutra who equals the joys of cooming and awakening (if not identifies, I don't remember; anyway that makes no sense).

[Anonymous No.23027034]

Islam would be cool if it weren’t for all the muslims

[Anonymous No.23027052]

>>23026961
I think it's more that Christianity can end up in world denial and the idea that not procreating is somehow better. With Islam, and what Ibn Arabi is saying, is that the monastery is already in the society. The family man is no less qualified, and actually more qualified, to profound spirituality and closeness to God than the celibate.

Ibn Arabi is also critical of extreme fasting and mortification. He thinks those people who are closest to God, who have passed through all the spiritual stations to attain the station of no station don't need fasting (ramadan excluded of course) or mortification. Outwardly they are completely sober and able to go in and out of any spiritual station with ease without being dominated by it. So they basically seem like normal people and don't stick out with ostentatious "look at me I'm so spiritual" or "look at me I completely negate the world" behaviour.

Ibn Arabi thinks when you have sex you are creating a human, and this is God-like because God is the ultimate creator. Is it bad to have children? Are you supposed to hate kids or hate everything that leads up to having kids?

[Anonymous No.23027075]

>>23027023
Not quite. He actually says Christ isn't fully human because he has no human father. He never criticizes Jesus and actually says he was converted into Sufism by Jesus who revealed himself to him and told him to become a Sufi. It's also probable that the mysterious youth he saw circulating the Kaaba was Jesus again. He has nothing but the greatest respect for Jesus but questions basic tenets of Christianity.

I think your knee-jerk reaction against the idea that someone can find a harmony between spirituality and day to day life which includes sexuality comes from Plotinus' world hatred which is inherited by Augustine. There is nothing like the baby hatred in Islam. Children are born monotheist and only later corrupted by the world. Augustinian original sin and Plotinian body hatred simply don't exist in Islam. It's not a bad thing that the culture hasn't developed a neurosis around it. Your problem stems from Plotinus and the Gayreeks, who aren't even Christian at all.

[Anonymous No.23027176]

>>23027075
>He actually says Christ isn't fully human because he has no human father.
Eh... I also red he says Christ had a stain on his robe, and actually put mohammed above, just because he had wifes, a normal life etc. which is kind of a judgement of people with no women. So one should inverse the accusation by saying ibn arabi is not a spiritual master because he cannot understand one can reach God and know him without the need of his material senses and without the need of a woman + ejaculation.
I'm not augustinian, as I'm an orthodox christian, and never get appealed to this theology of the first sin with inherited culpability. But the world is still corrupt since the fall of Adam, denying the way to rectify the fallen inclinations of our nature is just stupid.
The one who see God everywhere doesn't need women, he contemplates God directly, no need of a matterial symbol, like in OP's quote (which is quite litteraly agnostic of spiritual knowledge). God is infinitely more than women, and his revelations are infinitely more than women.

>>23027052
In comparison to God's infinity, the world litteraly does not exist. Then people with inclination towards Him, and who know we can know him by the power of the soul without an external support naturally tends to act like this world was nothing, why force them to marry ? Why force men to act in a certain way. Christianity have married saints and married priest, I know charismatics of the last century in greece that had children or had sex (at least twenty of them). It is islam who force people to marry. If you realize the unity of the world and God in God, there is no need to go to women. Why would one need to God to women to contemplate God or to see unity of God and the creation ?

[Anonymous No.23027191]

>>23027176
>I’m an orthodox christian
>The one who sees God everyone doesn’t need women, he contemplates God directly, no need of a material symbol
Must I be the one to point out the irony of an Orthodox Christian criticizing Muslims for contemplating God within the material while EOs are the number one picture-kissers within the Christian world, indeed insisting on its necessity on pain of hellfire at Nicaea II?

[Anonymous No.23028135]

>>23027176
>one should inverse the accusation by saying ibn arabi is not a spiritual master because he cannot understand one can reach God and know him without the need of his material senses and without the need of a woman + ejaculation.

Ibn Arabi wouldn't say it's impossible or bad, only that it's a lower stage of spirituality, and the highest stage incorporates this knowledge while remaining in the world. I'm not sure you can really deny this without ending up an anti-natalist of sorts.

>The one who see God everywhere doesn't need women, he contemplates God directly, no need of a matterial symbol, like in OP's quote (which is quite litteraly agnostic of spiritual knowledge). God is infinitely more than women, and his revelations are infinitely more than women.
>In comparison to God's infinity, the world litteraly does not exist
>Why would one need to God to women to contemplate God or to see unity of God and the creation ?

Sure then I guess you don't need the incarnation or an image of the cross (to say nothing of icons) because you don't have need of a material symbol and God is so far removed from materiality even though the second person of the trinity incarnated into a man and was born of a woman? Your logic is still Plotinian, and it ultimately denies the necessity of the incarnation and salvific power of Christ. "Just close your eyes to the world and meditate bro."

Ibn Arabi is saying that life should be lived through to the fullest rather than escaped and denied.

[Anonymous No.23028677]

>>23027191
You can use words to pray, you can use metaphors/symbols, you can contemplate God in life. You can even contemplate God in women, like in the virgin mary, who is the first among the deified human race, but you cannot address it to a body but to the whole personhood spiritualized or to the wood of the icon, you address the spiritual through this support. Which means you don't need to coom in women to see God in them. You can hug one if you really see God in her, kiss her on her hand or cheek and then it's like the icons. But islam is just a man-made religion, it's only about sacrilizing human life, not about attaining the suprem through the love of the world or by renouncing it.
There is only one saint in your list and it's not even clear if he applies it to icons or only pagan idols.

>>23028135
Babies will be made anyway, some are destined to make babies, or God can create some. If all humans were able to only live of prayer and the love of God, the whole world would be spiritualized. But worldly or normal people will breed for others. That's a non-issue.

>>23028135
Living a life of prayer is living a life to the fullest. Let's take an example : can you go everywhere in the world even while riding an arabic etalon during your djihad ? Can you marry all the women of the world, even if you are polygamous ? No. Which means ? there is a limit to your external activity in this life. Some eat more, some travel more, some marry, some don't and have more time for prayer, reading, self-less service,... The spiritual is not dependant on getting married and cooming in some women in order to see God in them. It's about following the right path made by God for you : either married or dedicated to a more direct approach. You have to see Mary in all women (oh no, I remember you will say she isn't perfectly realized spiritually because she was a virgin). There is no solution to the need of consooming. You cannot see God in all women if you have to coom in all of them for that.

tl;dr : ibn arabi was not a perfect saint because he didn't see God in all women, not being able to contemplate all of them with his penis (though he was in polygamy).
One should not be frustrated sexually but it's simply ibn arabi and muslims coomer who cannot envision people who don't need that. It's an arbitrary rule, to spite.on Christ and for men busy in gross matter with their several wifes, like if I said you need to sleep with 50 women and worship God in them to know God. Not even tantrist are so stupid as to say all men need to mary or that coomer are superior spiritually. As if having a wife.enables you to see God mystically in all human race.

Anyway you do you, but the fruits of islam are very limited. Muslim don't believe in miracles, and not even mohammed did any (Christ and christian do).

[Anonymous No.23028975]

>>23028677
>Muslim don't believe in miracles, and not even mohammed did any (Christ and christian do).
What are you on about.

[Anonymous No.23030118]

>>23028975
I'm on about what I just said. They don't have transcendantal God they can meet. So they "see" him in matter. Like the op's quote literraly being ibn arabi admitting he cannot see God without his physical senses.
In the way for action. They cannot even do miracles, believe only prophets (and not mohammed because he didn't do any) can do them.
It just point out to the fact it's a human-made "religion" which contredict all of Christ's teaching and justify it with cheap metaphysics (like "My prophet is more spiritual since he doesn't make a difference between being spiritual and wordly" which is a self-contradicting statement since it would not exist if there were no specificity in being spiritual. The one who claim to make no difference is in fact making a hierarchy even among his prophets (and putting mohammed above of course))

[Anonymous No.23030194]

>>23005331
Whenever some weepy, effeminate geek like Jordan Peterstein starts talking about the "divine feminine" or some other Jungian, New Age babble, I cant help but laugh.

[Anonymous No.23030274]

>>23030118
>not mohammed because he didn't do any
That is not true anon. I didn't even read the rest. Why post on this thread if you do not have basic knowledge?

[Anonymous No.23031157]

>>23022376
This pic is hilarious

[Anonymous No.23031737]

>>23028135
>I'm not sure you can really deny this without ending up an anti-natalist of sorts.
It's quite simple really, if you hold that becoming a recluse or monk allows one to reach a higher state of spiritual insight/refinement but that not everyone should become a monk, then that is a consistent way of holding that sex-related spirituality is inferior to pure gnosis spirituality but without affirming anti-natalism or being world-denying (because not everyone is recommended to abandon worldly life or become a monk but only those with a higher spiritual calling and who are not leaving important stuff behind).

Ultimately, one should critically question one's one assumptions. In Islam, Muhammad is seen as the perfect man, so accordingly there are efforts to endorse everything he did as exemplary. But if you stand outside of this bias and just think critically, there is no logical reason why the highest state of spiritual enlightenment should involve sex or women at all.

[Anonymous No.23031739]

>>23030118
>They cannot even do miracles, believe only prophets (and not mohammed because he didn't do any) can do them.
Wrong and wrong lol

[Anonymous No.23031741]

>>23024417
They are trying to cope with their own women being promiscuous and irreligious

[Anonymous No.23031876]

>>23030274
Well that's what a muslim guide in agia sophia (Constantinople) told me. Which said to me first, that muslims cannot do miracles, and only prophets, and second, that mohammed didn't do any, unlike Christ.
You can go check this :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracles_of_Muhammad
>Historically, Muhammad was unable to perform miracles, and this is openly acknowledged by the Quran.[1][2][3]
>[...]Nevertheless, after Muhammad's death, several devout Muslims who were dissatisfied with their prophet's lack of miracles—partly due to their arguments with Christians—decided to attribute a range of superhuman qualities to him in post-Qur'anic texts such as the Hadith and the Sira.[1][3][7] For some parts, they also relied on ambiguous Qur'anic verses that they then developed into elaborate narratives. Notably, the Quranic verses 53:1-2, which originally forecast a forthcoming event linked to the Day of Judgment based on a sighting of a lunar eclipse, were ultimately transformed by them into a historical miracle, the splitting of the moon.[8][9]
>For centuries, Muslim scholars have recognized the problem of authenticity of hadith. Thus they have developed sophisticated methods (see Hadith studies) of evaluating isnāds (chains of transmission). This was done in order to classify each hadith into "sound" (ṣaḥīḥ) for authentic reports, as opposed to "weak" (ḍaʿīf) for ones that are probably fabricated, in addition to other categories.[7] Since many sīra reports also contain isnād information and some of the sīra compilers (akhbārīs) were themselves practicing jurists and hadīth transmitters (muḥaddiths), it was possible to apply the same methods of hadīth criticism to the sīra reports.[8] However, some sīra reports were written using an imprecise form of isnād, or what modern historians call the "collective isnād" or "combined reports". The use of collective isnād meant that a report may be related on the authority of multiple persons without distinguishing the words of one person from another. This lack of precision led some hadith scholars to take any report that used a collective isnād to be lacking in authenticity.[9]
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbxsHF8Qj60

Whatever you may answer to this second embarrassing subject about mohammed the very human (whatever is more human and material is more spiritual I guess if we follow the logic of ibn arabi and co), OP's quote of ibn arabi " for the Real is never witnessed without materials" was the original subject is an embarassment for a supposed "le based monist mystic.

[Anonymous No.23032009]

>>23031876
>that mohammed didn't do any
Either the guide in istanbul lied to you which is unlikely, or you misheard him anon. The Quran has a literal chapter called the Mi'raj, The Night Ascent.

The Shia even believe that every single miracle given to previous prophets was given to Muhammad on top of the miracles given only to him such as the Isra', Mi'raj, and the Quran.
Such as holding the sun for Joshua in an event called Radd Al-Shams for Imam Ali, or the prophecies of foresight for Noah such as telling Abu Dhar he would die alone or that Zubayr will fight his own nephew Ali or that Fatima will be the first to join him, and the mastery of David and Solomon over the language (the Quran uses the word منطق which means logic) of animals such as the prophet speaking with wolves who would then speak back, or reviving the dead such as Jesus when Muhammad revived the dead sons of Jabir, and countless others.

Like the other anon said
>Why post on this thread if you do not have basic knowledge?

[Anonymous No.23032176]

>>23032009
Well, muslims told me this eh
>The Night Ascent.
Which is a vision. And with no witness, no proof.
Then I see it's still weak, no miracles in the quran, only in latter hadith (of course after their "revelation" gets confronted to others, and then they also make a compilation of miracles). Of course, hadith are dubious and like an arabic phone, are just a transmitted story.
I don't know much about islam, other than the improbable fact that all apostles, evangelist, saint Paul, distorted the message of Christ, and the improbable fact there needed another revelation a few centuries later. I mostly argumented on the nonsense of the OP's quote logic. It's not a thread about islam, but about ibn arabi being a coomer, and using a false logic to undermine Christ and put mohammed above. Just like your supposed vision of mohammed leading the prayer of other prophts is supposed to show his superiority (which is understandably the main concern of islam).
I will not debate about islamic little facts of eruditions, as I didn't study islam. The main point of the original post have been answered, you don't answer to this anymore, and the discussion is leading to something else. Thus I will not feel forced to continue the discussion, as it gives me much sadness considering lost people and divisions, even spiritual divisions. Islam is even harder when you consider they cannot go into perennialism and have to necessaril deny Christ divinity and undermine him (which is something other pre-christian religions don't have to do, since it's not their core message of opposition).
Simply resumed, the logic is false, I cannot go much deeper on other subject of islam, I believed this muslim guide, and it's still a bit shady
>Why post on this thread if you do not have basic knowledge?
This question is asked in bad faith as it's not a thread about islam.

[Anonymous No.23032271]

>>23021874
I mostly agree with this, but I think it is a mistake to say these permutations fully align to Christianity and Islam respectively, though certainly I agree the first permutation had dominated most of Christian history

I can think of both theological impulses and heresies in Christianity that operate more how you describe Islam here, and I can also think of Fundamentalist movements in Islam that operate more how you describe Christianity here.

[Anonymous No.23032597]

>>23028677
>Muslim don't believe in miracles, and not even mohammed did any (Christ and christian do).

Ibn Arabi actually has a thing about this. He thinks reliance on miracles is overrated because it will likely provoke doubt in most people and push them away from the religion.

[Anonymous No.23033019]

>>23032597
Undoubtedly true

[Anonymous No.23034049]

>tfw wanna be a Muslim
>filtered by Arabic
It’s over

[Anonymous No.23034275]

>>23027034
Maybe, but Christianity would still be shit even without all of its Christians.