Can you give me some antipsychiatry and antipsychology book recommendations?

[Anonymous No.22987838]

Either focusing on the history of the field, or on philosophical arguments against it. Books like Szasz's.

[Anonymous No.22987852]

>>22987838
How about instead of propaganda try reading into the literature on psychosurgery

[Anonymous No.22987853]

David Healy has a lot of interesting stuff and keeps an active blog.

[Anonymous No.22987854]

>>22987838
>Can you give me some antipsychiatry and antipsychology book recommendations?
stella maris. look up the history of Rosemary Kennedy

[Anonymous No.22987873]

>>22987838
>>22987854
Veronika Decides to Die (Portuguese: Veronika Decide Morrer)[2] is a novel by Paulo Coelho.[3] It tells the story of Veronika, a 24-year-old Slovenian who appears to have everything in life going for her, but who decides to kill herself. This book is partly based on Coelho's experience in various mental institutions (see the biography Confessions of a Pilgrim by Juan Arias), and deals with the subject of madness. The gist of the message is that "collective madness is called sanity".
Awful book but still thematically related.

[Anonymous No.22987877]

Semi related The Happiness Industry - William Davies touches upon this topic

[Anonymous No.22987903]

>>22987854
>>22987873
A whimsical novel but still worth checking is
THE PSYCHIATRIST by Joaquim Maria Machado de Assis, 1882

Among the best-known narrative of Papéis avulsos is "The Psychiatrist" ("O Alienista"), in which the author satirizes positivism, the philosophy of Auguste Comte prevalent in nineteenth-century western Europe, and therefore in urban centers in Brazil, that science held the solution to every human problem. Possibly suggested by the theme of Jonathan Swift's "A Serious and Useful Scheme to Make a Hospital for Incurables," Machado's satire, like many modern ironic treatments of ontology and epistemology, goes much farther than Swift or other precursors to obliterate the boundary between reason and madness. The theme was a favorite with Poe as well as with realists such as Maupassant and naturalists such as Chekov, to mention only a few writers and thinkers of the nineteenth century who influenced Machado. Those preoccupied with the impressionistic interpretation of ethical matters are numerous. As Anatole France pointed out in a speech at the Sorbonne in 1909, Machado deserved to be classified among them as both precursor and contemporary.

[Anonymous No.22987907]

>>22987852
How about you swallow my whole nut?

[Anonymous No.22987930]

>>22987907
ok than just slurp up activist slop, anyways googling and "Psychosurgery: New Techniques for Brain Disorders" & "Psychiatric Neurotherapeutics: Contemporary Surgical and Device-Based Treatments" would be someplace to check out the contemporary field maybe?

[Anonymous No.22987935]

>>22987930
People who harm animals should be drawn and quartered. The Third Reich banned vivisection on day one.

[Anonymous No.22987945]

>>22987935
>People who harm animals should be drawn and quartered. The Third Reich banned vivisection on day one.
remember Mengele

[Anonymous No.22987946]

>>22987935
Most tax payers would be fine preforming experiments on prisoners even so you can move further up the scale. Most people whining about animal welfare literally eat them so whatever. You're not going to give the growing population of Africa their necessary caloric intake without factory farming on a much larger and worse scale than anything existing now.

[Anonymous No.22988104]

More specifically, you can visit their website dedicated to exposing psychiatry and psychology. https://www.cchr.org/

[Anonymous No.22988168]

My time has come. Below are books, articles, and the like I've spent years collecting. They are largely antipsychiatry, with some neutral, and some in favor, to provide a general history of the support, opposition, and opposition to the opposition of psychiatry.

>Pop Psych
Brain on Fire - Susannah Cahalan
The Great Pretender - Susannah Cahalan
My Lobotomy - Howard Dully
Mad in America - Allen Frances
Saving Normal - Allen Frances
The Psychopath Test - Jon Ronson
A History of Psychiatry - Edward Shorter
Anatomy of an Epidemic - Robert Whitaker

>Psych Psych
DSM-V
On Being Sane in Insane Places - David Rosenhan
On Psuedoscience in Science - Robert Spitzer
The Myth of Mental Illness - Thomas Szasz
Hippocrates Cried - Michael Alan Taylor
The Slow Death of the Concept of Schizophrenia and the Painful Birth of the Psychosis Spectrum - Jim Van Os

>Fiction
The Brain is Wider than the Sky - Emily Dickinson
Howl - Allen Ginsberg
Steppenwolf - Hermann Hesse
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - Ken Kesey
The Hysteria of Benedict Arnold - myself :)

>Misc
Rilke's quote on refusing psychanalysis: "If my devils are to leave me, I am afraid my angels will take flight as well."
Rosemary Kennedy case
Nellie Bly case
The Selling of ADHD - NYT interview of Keith Connors

[Anonymous No.22988170]

>>22988168
Oh snap and the BPS response to the DSM-V I forgot that one

[Anonymous No.22988192]

>>22988168
Thank you. Saved

[Anonymous No.22988277]

>>22987838
What's funny is I think transitioning will be looked back at like how barbaric lobotomies were.

[Anonymous No.22988286]

>>22988277
Still on a daily basis I re-realize that we're currently living in a decade in which "transitioning" is a real thing, and it's like re-realizing that in 2017 it became a common, normal fad among young people to eat every single piece of dog shit you find

I can just barely theoretically contain the notion in my mind but fundamentally I re-say "What??" every time

[Anonymous No.22988311]

>>22988286
It's like, "oh shit dude, you're sad? Have you thought of taking estrogen and chopping your dick off?" Forget bottom surgery, estrogen is super carcinogenic and is mostly used in women and men during cell replication but if you read Ray Peat it's not really a sex hormone, women just undergo cell replication more often.

[Anonymous No.22988327]

>>22987852
>how about instead of propaganda try and read up on propaganda?
...huh?

[Anonymous No.22988330]

>>22988168
Nice list. I have a friend who has not been yet completely diagnosed. It was thought he had ADHD, then changed to DID, and afer a suicide attempt is currently on a ketamin derivate, apparently given to Schizos. Which one of these books do you think may help me understand whatever he may have?

[Anonymous No.22988339]

>>22987838
Here's a good article with some references:

https://www.takimag.com/article/freud-the-fraud/

[Anonymous No.22988342]

[Anonymous No.22988349]

>>22988342
Angry feminist moms who raise sons with no dad around create weird serial killers and rapists. It's funny how the thing feminists hate, they create if they go to far with their man hate.

[Anonymous No.22988587]

>>22988277
I feel the same way. It's one of those things like when you read a history book and see all the dumbass things people did for health that were normalized, like ingesting arsenic and spraying yourself with DDT, and think "Woah, how were people so stupid?!" This is one of those things, where 50-100 years from now people will look back on the epidemic of young men and women cutting off their genitals and taking hormone-altering drugs and say "Holy fuck how were people this stupid?!"

[Anonymous No.22988641]

>>22988277
>>22988587
autistic rant:
It is crazy and I forget about it all the time. I recently found out that my (shitty 3rd world country) government PAYS for 100% of all trans surgeries and hormones. I'm not watching the news all the time but I try to be fairly in the know, but it somehow got passed like 5 years ago with barely any coverage. Everyone I've told this, besides people who are friends with a trans person, had no clue this was a thing and that their taxes are going to *that*, lmao.

[Anonymous No.22988642]

>>22988342
haha, i like the creative shitposts that float around on /lit/, they're very entertaining.

you guys might be interested to read Berkeley. if you're creative you can derive a refutation of the brain from his metaphysics.

mostly i think mental health, mental illness doctrines are beneath contempt but thanks for sharing some recs anons, i might check some of them out later.

[Anonymous No.22988644]

>>22987838
RD Laing is probably the most influential anti-psychiatrist, although his work is quite outdated now.

[Anonymous No.22989268]

>>22988642
Unfortunately, the fact that people use "mommy" and "daddy" during sex proves this bastard

[Anonymous No.22989373]

>>22989268
I like Sigmund Freud because one of his students cured Rachmaninov of his stage fright / performance anxiety with Freud's therapy methods. I do think people took his writings too seriously pm the 50s. There were parents afraid to hug their kids because of him, but I think the nurturing kids receive in early life makes them better at dealing with stress later in life.

[Anonymous No.22989384]

Let me ask my psychiatrist wife what anti-psychiatry books she is reading when she gets home today. She’s exclusively psychotherapy and psychoanalysis after reading D&G among other theorists. The bigger problem within the psychiatry field is the rise of autonomous retarded midlevels such as NPs and PAs (in psych) that are able to prescribe medications without physician supervision (their unions have lobbied for this and it’s happening in other states). So now you have psych PAs working for Amazon’s Tele-Health/Psych program who give some 18-year old kid HRT meds in under five minutes without actually speaking to a psychiatrist.

[Anonymous No.22989402]

>>22989384
I have trouble trusting a psychiatrist prescribing SSRIs like candy. I know so many people who've started SSRIs, gotten super fat, and then built a resistance to the SSRIs and been just as suicidal as when they started but now they're fat and practically disabled.

[Anonymous No.22989405]

>>22989384
Your wife sounds pretty based.

[Anonymous No.22989435]

>>22989384
Has she read The Myth of Mental Illness?

[Anonymous No.22989437]

>>22989405
She is pretty cool. She knows way more about Anti-Psych than me since my only exposure to it was D&G in college years ago. Our really only intellectual overlap is theology. She doesn’t read much fiction like me. I don’t read much nonfiction (philosophy and theology) as her.
>>22989402
Yeah, she doesn’t like some of her classmates from med school who went psych to just do the pharmacology side. There’s some infighting in the APA about shifting priorities toward psychotherapy and psychoanalysis and minimizing focus on SSRIs and other meds. The ones against those who accuse my wife and other colleagues of dogmatism are those whose psych practices are practically paid for through pharmacy consultants so those psychiatrists can prescribe SSRIs to moms and their children. If actual MD psychiatrists eventually move away from pharmacology, we will see an even bigger influx of nurses and physician assistants who will fill that medication dispenser role. I am with you too, I hate meds and their strength too. When I needed to talk to someone back in the day for something that happened, some psych who only listened to me for 10 minutes just gave me meds and fucked me up for 2 years before I quit cold turkey and have never looked back.

[Anonymous No.22989439]

The problem is that anti-psychiatrists don't really have any real way of actually fixing anything they are critiquing.

[Anonymous No.22989464]

>it's another anon doesn't want to take his meds episode

[Anonymous No.22989470]

>>22988168
>DSM-V
>antipsychiatry
huh

[Anonymous No.22989576]

>>22989439
The fix is worse than the cure whether it's surgery or meds. Neither fixes the underlying problems they just mask it temporarily.

[Anonymous No.22989579]

>>22989576
I obviously meant the fix is worse than the disease

[Anonymous No.22989597]

>>22987838
R.D Laing, Thomas Szasz, Michel Foucault

[Anonymous No.22989635]

>>22989437
Based theologicians. And I can you are a healthy couple by these comments. All the best, to you and her

[Anonymous No.22989650]

>>22989464
many such cases

[Anonymous No.22989656]

>>22987838
Many 4chan users are neurodivergent but have internalized the ableist prejudices of the wider society rendering them vulnerable to radicalization by incels, transphobes, russian bots and white supremacists. it would be far more radical to adopt an intersectional equity based perspective that places evidence based treatment and the lived experience of mental health consumers first and foremost in its intersections with gender race sex worker status, internalized stigma against the use of hard drugs. Besides it plays into the arguments of reactionaries to imply queer peoples identities are based on trauma and not on objective scientific and psychiatric authority

[Anonymous No.22989659]

>>22987873
Sounds like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

[Anonymous No.22989662]

>>22987946
You're wrong, and you're wrong, and you're wrong

[Anonymous No.22989672]

Alright so I've made my way to the bottom of the thread now and most of you are a bunch of fucking retards, what do you think you're even doing here on the literature board?

[Anonymous No.22989692]

A Philosophy of Madness: The Experience of Psychotic Thinking by Christiaan Wouter Kusters

[Anonymous No.22989817]

>Can you give me some antipsychiatry and antipsychology book recommendations?

[Anonymous No.22989831]

>>22989579
>I obviously meant the fix is worse than the disease
I don't agree. The meds are not fun to deal with, but at least now I won't ruin my life (again) thinking I am Jesus during a psychotic manic episode and getting arrested and forced into a psych ward.

[Anonymous No.22989930]

>>22989831
If you're that bad you should either be sedated or released in the woods to live as a shaman. Putting you on trazadone and sending you off to live in a basement is putting you community at risk. At the very least you need intensive psychotherapy (and not the low effort shitty kind that 95% of doctors and LCSWs do).

[Anonymous No.22990352]

>>22989439
>The problem is that anti-psychiatrists don't really have any real way of actually fixing anything they are critiquing
You're not going to get a consensus on any "problem". All the hippy shit was that crazies are just unique beautifies and who are we to judge and the right wing libertarian line is all asocial behavior isn't problematic but that which is is actually just criminal and should be punished as such in normal prisons. The anti-psychiatry movement was always primarily political activists pushing an agenda and not actually interested in developing a "better" science of psychosis, etc but doing away with the general idea of it (the more left) or that you might not be responsible in some sense for what you do (the more right)

[Anonymous No.22990571]

>>22989659
>One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Yes. I saw the movie adaptation, but never read the novel. That said, it looks better executed than Coelho's counterpart. And I also think he lost an opportunity to connect it with something earlier.
To his credit, he lived through electroshock teraphy, as a patient. So he has first hand experience on the subject.
And he wasn't even mad, afterall, as far as I recall.
Simply eccentrical to his time; a typical hippie.
So they zapped his brain with a charge to give him a sound mind.
And he went on to be a best-seller.
Mad stuff, ain't?

The problem is that some things are irreparable.
The things some people are pushing today are irreparable.

[Anonymous No.22990609]

>>22987838
Szasz is best

[Anonymous No.22991674]

>>22987873
>Paulo coelho
Back to tumblr macaco

[Anonymous No.22991997]

>>22988330
None of these books—the idea is to hear him out without the goal of diagnosing him.

>>22988349
Every day I understand a little more why serial killers are raised by single moms in minecraft.

>>22989470
>DSM-V
>antipsychiatry
Yes.
It provides context for the past decade of psychiatry and where it’s headed. And, if you oppose psychiatry it seems a nail in the coffin.

[Anonymous No.22992097]

>>22990352
>You're not going to get a consensus on any "problem".
Giving potent psychoactive drugs to normal (non-delusional, non-insane, without any lapses in what comes to perception of reality) people based on arbitrary definitions of what constitutes a "mental illness" which all come down to, essentially, "i think these thoughts and emotions right here are not 'normal' and you are simply not right in the head". And of course coercing those people to accept these drugs without ever telling them (maybe without even knowing) what these substances actually do or what their potentially undesirable or even life-ruining side-effects are (often going out of one's way to hide them from suspecting patients).

I'm not talking only about pic related. Things like giving risperidone (a literal schizo drug) to children with behavioral problems are also among the vast amount of problems (an euphemism. "Evils" is a more accurate word) associated with modern psychiatry.

[Anonymous No.22992143]

[Anonymous No.22992652]

>>22988330
>ketamin derivate, apparently given to Schizos
Ketamine is not for schizos, it must be MDD

[Anonymous No.22992740]

>>22992652
NTA, but Ketamine really helped my depression and hopelessness (only lasted like a week or two though). And I was doing black market ket because its not approved for depression in my country yet. I can see how doing a small bit every week or two could be beneficial, but I'm too worried about fucking up my bladder to try something like that.

[Anonymous No.22993092]

I don't get anti-psychiatry, what are we supposed to do with the mentally ill then? Nothing?

[Anonymous No.22993661]

>>22993092
Yes? The few that are actually criminal can be locked up but it's a very small proportion of of those categorized as mentally ill. The rest are irrelevant. They may do something weird in public every now and then.
"Doing something" is an euphemism for throwing 10% of children on amphetamines. Perhaps there is something like a good psychiatry but you'd need to burn the current one to the ground and start from scratch after everyone has stopped taking seriously the previous theories.

[Anonymous No.22993730]

>>22993092
>>22993661
That's my experience too. Most crazy people are inoffensive (most of the time).

[Anonymous No.22993762]

>>22993661
You can heal or help people with existing theories that aim to address and acknowledge the source of the patients issues. But, there's at least two major issues preventing people from getting the help they want. First, a lot of doctors are trained to treat patients by desensitizing them to specific negative experiences without addressing the underlying reasons for the feelings. An example of this is making a patient with social anxiety go to the grocery store twice a week to desensitize them without taking the time needed to find the source of the problem and then letting the patient figure out how the source of their anxiety and acknowledge the complex web of events and emotions. All of it needs to be confronted for healing. The second issue is that these kinds of processes take time and the vast majority of doctors would rather see as many patients as possible or otherwise do as little as possible to get paid instead of developing relationships with patients. This is one of the reasons prescriptions are so tempting to hand out; in theory they do all the work of the doctor without the doctor having to do anything. After the patient is introduced to the prescription medication, all subsequent visits become 15 to 30 minute check-ins where the doctor spends most of his time addressing the patients medication needs. Of course, the elephant in the room is the medical/insurance industrial complex that has destroyed the doctor patient relationship and made it impossible to practice medicine. Instead the have to go through the hospital system and insurance provider checklist before providing care.

But, at the end of the day, most doctors just suck at their jobs like in every other trade. Although it does seem to be getting worse.

[Anonymous No.22993994]

>>22992097
This is correct. I was put on SSRIs for OCD and panic attacks as a teenager after a 10 minute appointment with a pediatrician, took it because I was in a lot of discomfort and foolishly trusted that my parents wouldn't let me take something that could hurt me. Didn't even mention the black box warning or any potential side effects to me besides "dizziness", "dry mouth", etc. Ended up becoming psychotic after my dose was ramped up to the maximum over the course of a year. I became extremely self-destructive and my personality, even sexuality, blatantly changed. Nobody around me was smart enough to realize the colossal dose of psych meds could be having any sort of negative effect on me, and I was of course unable to stop it myself. Currently down to a sub-clinical dose, tapering a fraction of a milligram at a time and dealing with both major withdrawal symptoms and PTSD from being chemically coerced into having gay sex (I know this sounds like a joke but unfortunately I'm being serious), completely disabled living in my parents' basement playing online chess and reading all day.

Anyway, I'm really sorry for the blog post; it just truly depresses me reading stuff like the anon's post you replied to and the similar posts in this thread and realizing that's really how the situation is seen from the outside.

[Anonymous No.22994116]

>>22993730
Loonies have lower crime rates than the general population. People are just afraid of nonconformist attitudes. A bit like women treating virgin awkward guys as rapists when I'd bet they have sex crime rates ten times lower than the consensual sex having men.
The frequent representation of the (IRL rare) criminally insane in media probably doesn't help either, but it makes for cheap dilemmas and psychobabble for hack writers.