/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22974492]

>humanity created an utopian society which actually works
>people are bio-engineered to be fulfill their societal roles and be happy while doing it
>there's a drug like alcohol but with zero side effects
>if they deem you as unfit for the society from a political standpoint, the only punishment you recieve is getting sent to an island with other like-minded individuals living there where you can also live a happy life
>muh shakespeare muh poetry!
>a guy who was raised in an indian reservation didn't like it there because he was bullied and he wanted to see the civilized world, but he didn't like the new world either so he hanged himself because he wasn't genetically predisposed for living in both of the worlds
How is this book anti-utopian?

[Anonymous No.22974555]

>"It was the sort of idea that might easily decondition the more unsettled minds among the higher castes - make them lose their faith in happiness as the Sovereign Good and take to believing, instead, that the goal was somewhere beyond, somewhere outside the present human sphere; that the purpose of life was not the maintenance of well-being, but some intensification and refining of consciousness, some enlargement of knowledge. Which was, the Controller reflected, quite possibly true. But not, in the present circumstance, admissible. He picked up the pen again, and under the words 'Not to be Published" drew a second line, thicker than the first." Chapter 12

[Anonymous No.22974652]

>>22974492
The books pov makes you think this (because once you get to the actual protagonist he's retarded)
The retarded MCs only argument boiled down to, "what about god?" And "I want to suffer". His shitty philosophy led him to a quick end of madness and death just as you'd expect.
There are elements of the society which could and wmshoukd have been attacked (seriously they electric-torture babies to make them hade books and being outside) but John the Idiot was a terrible pov and voice to serve as a foil to them.

[Anonymous No.22974688]

>>22974492
read this >>22974555
until it makes sense


basically they were trying to create a utopia by getting rid of anything that causes war. Like John lennon and all the nihilist marxists say: if there's no religion then there's no conflict in the middle east. If women sleep with all men, then there's no fights over women (like helen of troy). If everyone is a functional heroin addict, then they'll all be unambitious, docile, and compliant. If children are introduced to sex early then they'll be sexual libertines. It's kind of how people actually believe that if children are introduced to tranny story time, then they'll become trannies or faggots, and so if more than 50% of people are faggots, then there wont be any more homophobia. They literally belive this. Just like they believe if everyone is mix-raced, then there won't be racism in america.

Well, I have something called a conscience. I can't articulate it very well. I can't explain it using syllogisms, but I know that introducing kids to sex is wrong. i know that even if you live a long life, if you do it addicted to drugs, that's a bad thing. I know that religion is a force for good. I see it everyday. I don't believe in god, but I compare my religious friends with my atheist friends and there's a clear difference. And I have a gut feeling in my stomach that urges me to be jealous. I don't want to share my wife with anyone. It makes my stomach churn just thinking about it. This is our humanity. It's innate in our human being. If you're autistic you won't get it. but it's there

[Anonymous No.22974750]

>>22974652
The reason John was a terrible voice to serve as a foil is because Huxley looks at people like you and me (bourgeoisie) as surrogates for John. In Huxley's imagination men like him are Mustapha Mond, they're well bred, well educated, and they can see through the spooks that you and I base all of our decisions on. Everyone else may as well be epsilons. Men like him believe that they have the divine right to rule over us as he sees fit wilding their trinity of reason, science, and right think.

[Anonymous No.22974790]

>>22974750
Source?

[Anonymous No.22974834]

>>22974750
Interesting interpretation but everything I've read from Huxley on the topic disagrees with that interpretation.
He ultimately regretted there not being a middle path between the two extremes of savagery and civilization shown in the book, something he attempted to rectify in his later book The Island.
Your perspective does lend some interesting color to the above though, the inevitable course of the middle class caught between the rich "do gooders" and the poor savages is dangling on a rope, insane...

[Anonymous No.22974872]

>>22974688
you're not conscience you're just a conservitard.

Feeling innate urges to violently lash out at those that go against your customs is not the antithesis of wanting to globalize the world and infantilize humanity, that's just a false dichotomy you've drawn in your mind to empower yourself.

[Anonymous No.22974891]

>>22974834
I think the book paints technocracy as the only reasonable choice in the future. It's not that Mond only looks down upon the lower classes, he also has tremendous distain for Bernard Marx (Helmholtz to a lesser extent) who's an alpha plus. He seems to hate Marx primarily because Marx presumes himself to be a near equal to Mond, a world controller. By the end of the book, the only person that seems reasonable is Mond (John is dead, Lenina is either killed or defiled in the final orgy porgy, Bernard and Helmholtz are exiled to islands where they're content in pursuing their own misguided self-interest).

[Anonymous No.22974917]

>>22974891
This book was written at the peak of eugenics and at the outset of cybernetics. People in Huxley's milieu thought that the were going to create a better man. Our elites today still think the same thing. Too bad they're lesser men than their parents and grandparents.

[Anonymous No.22974967]

>>22974872
>Like John lennon and all the nihilist marxists say:
>a false dichotomy you've drawn in your mind to empower yourself.

[Anonymous No.22974978]

>>22974492
Stop reposting this shit thread, you braindead fuck.

[Anonymous No.22975538]

>>22974891
I mean Bernard is a contemptible character, a hypocritical and grandiose coward who annoys everyone who meets him except early Lenina.
Mond comes across as reasonable (being one of the only people in your civilization with knowledge of rhetoric be like...) until one remembers the baby torture scene in chapter 2.

[Anonymous No.22975645]

>>22975538
Bernard is literally me if I was a manlet

[Anonymous No.22976036]

>>22974688
>It makes my stomach churn just thinking about it. This is our humanity. It's innate in our human being. If you're autistic you won't get it. but it's there.
Why didn't you even bring up the fact that human beings are intentionally crippled and deformed from conception to be used as slave labor? Really odd that people who love to criticize the society in Brave New World never bring up the one seriously fucked up and unforgivable aspect of the One World State. It's an instant "gotcha" but for some reason it didn't seem to trip your handy-dandy gut instinct morality sensor. Why do you think that is?

[Anonymous No.22976051]

>>22974492
The point of the book is that life isn't about being a fucking satisfied cow but about experiencing growth. And the Brave New World kills the things that enable that process from occurring in any meaningful way.

[Anonymous No.22976109]

>>22976051
Really? Bernard and Helmholtz both grow during the story, but they grow in the most common anti-social way people grow in our civilization. They grow to to serve their own self interest, like Bernard, or their own self pity, like Helmholtz. John grows to become even more neurotic than he starts and is overcome by his antisocial coomer mania. Huxley thinks that mankind's ability to grow doesn't come from man himself, but from civilization or should otherwise be tamed by it. Even if Huxley was skeptical of civilization he's willing to make a devils bargain with it.

[Anonymous No.22976129]

>>22976109
Ok

[Anonymous No.22976667]

>>22976036
In April, 2023 the usa cdc put the covid vax on the childhood vax schedule - 2 doses starting at 6 months old. April 2023, knowing the potential immediate side effects, not knowing the long term risks, knowing it's not very safe or effective and doesn't stop infection or transmission and young children are at a much lower risk from covid that probably a million other risks the might be exposed to. Look at a graph of prevalence of autism, adhd, depression, anxiety, asthma, severe food allergies, childhood arthritis, etc. Whatever is happening is right now in usa effectly creating plenty of invalids.

[Anonymous No.22976725]

>>22976036
you have woman logic

[Anonymous No.22977149]

>>22974872
This guy let's his girlfriend fuck other men

[Anonymous No.22977213]

>>22977149
>This guy watches cuck porn for the storyline
FTFY. No way he has a gf.

[Anonymous No.22977339]

>>22976725
I think we should try and make as many healthy, natural and well developed children has we can and count the retarded as blessings from God.

[Anonymous No.22978884]

>>22976667
Dumb people down with vaccines, microplastics and hormones then feed them bugs and lab grown meat. Sounds like we're half way to brave new world.

[Anonymous No.22978982]

>>22974688
>people actually believe that if children are introduced to tranny story time, then they'll become trannies or faggots
The only people who actually think this are against it

[Anonymous No.22979006]

>>22977339
And your half of why the novels closest thing to a sensible character kills themselves rather than exist in your world.

[Anonymous No.22979019]

>>22979006
Why don't you learn English, retard?

[Anonymous No.22980581]

>>22978982
get your head out of your ass