/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22943871]

Is /lit/ ready for the Fully Automated Luxury Communism Pill?

[Anonymous No.22943875]

is it 2019 again

[Anonymous No.22943877]

Mother of God how can anyone be so delusional?? Utopia is not happening. All we have is capitalist profit motive combined with Moore's Law, it literally cannot go anywhere good.

[Anonymous No.22943881]

>>22943871
Capitalism will never NEVER be defeated and if it is the human species probably won’t exist anymore

[Anonymous No.22943887]

>>22943871
>aaron
you've been fooled

[Anonymous No.22943893]

>>22943877
What do you think about the idea that the input costs of commodities could drop to near zero? Paradigm shifts do tend to be unimaginable to the people living just before them. If information/data become the true source of value and replace labor, it could lead to at least a step towards utopia (although, admittedly, this would require a herculean political effort which seems nigh impossible)

[Anonymous No.22944001]

>>22943875
Bro, have you heard of this hot new "breadtuber" named "contrapoints"??? It's cutting edge stuff!

[Anonymous No.22944933]

>>22943871

Communists want robots and AI to do all the work except they don't want to build the robots or write the AI. They just want to live on a global Indian reservation.

[Anonymous No.22945069]

>>22944933
Very soon AI will be able to direct the robots to build more robots and to improve the AI itself. In any event, it's undeniable that the amount of "building" done by human beings is vastly shrinking in proportion to production due to advances in technology. The thrust is that data itself is usurping the place of labor as the driver of value, and data can be infinitely replicated at nearly zero cost. Traditional models of capitalism utterly fail when adapted to this landscape.

[Anonymous No.22945179]

>>22945069
>models of capitalism
>adapted to this landscape
Why are commies so retarded

[Anonymous No.22946618]

>>22945179
Can you address what I just said? Capitalism works by the application of capital and labor in a productive endeavor which turns a profit. What happens when data is all that Capital needs in order to turn a profit? What happens when labor increasingly becomes superfluous? This is not an abstract question, this is a reality which is rapidly becoming more acute. Retreating into the comfort of "commie retarded" is like sticking your head in the sand. You will be forced to address this in your own life one way or another, it's better to discuss it rationally than stay in denial while it reshapes our entire world.

[Anonymous No.22946637]

Retarded book still should be read for the purposes of mockery

[Anonymous No.22946645]

>>22943871
fuck you commies back to /pol/

[Anonymous No.22946657]

>>22943871
The technology might exist but the people who handle wealth and the reigns of power do so because they want to. Being the only people capable of implementing these changes, they won't. Or some might try, but only using fairness as an excuse for the atrocities they commit like Stalin.
Digital information is a post-scarcity environment but every effort has been made to deny this nature.

[Anonymous No.22946673]

>>22943893
NTA
input cost of commodities will never drop near zero
>If information/data become the true source of value and replace labor
You'd have to explain what you mean by value here. You'll still have to buy your groceries and those will not be made out of information.
>it could lead to at least a step towards utopia
Like the anon above alluded, this is never going to lead to anything good. You can of course make money less valuable, and I also imagine that states like China can run on societal score only. There's always control freaks in position of power in this day and age.
>utopia
I imagine utopia can only exist without politics.

[Anonymous No.22947038]

>>22946637
Care to present that mockery, perhaps in citing examples from the book and making a case for it to be mocked?

[Anonymous No.22947044]

There is no such thing attainable within our lifetimes

>>22946637
yep. I predict on close examination this book will be talking about something more closely resembling green feudalism

[Anonymous No.22947063]

>>22946657
This is the major dilemma of our time. Will the people in power allow the superfluous masses to exist when they serve no utility in a post-labor economy? What will be done with the lower classes? I agree it seems unlikely that those in power will benevolently open the cornucopia and share wealth to people they view as useless, lazy, leeches, sponges, or whatever other term is lingering on from the times of scarcity. What is the path forward then? Revolution? Will porn, drugs, and TV anesthetize people towards low birthrates until the population dwindles away while the elite hoard the gains from the new economy? These questions fascinate me because they seem to speak to an impending doom, but so many people have a kind of ideological shield from even engaging with these ideas or what comes next as technology continues to remove the need for labor (to a point, of course some labor will be required for a very long time, but the ratio of labor to any given production will become vanishingly small)

[Anonymous No.22947072]

>>22946673
>input cost of commodities will never drop near zero
Why not? If a team can create a self sustaining AI which can perform complex tasks and even maintain itself, then the amount of input labor to create that AI will become vanishingly small compared to what the AI will produce. I don't see how you can argue this except to say technically a tiny fraction of labor was required to build the AI or robots, but the ratio of labor will be so small compared to the production that it will be near zero before long.
>You'll still have to buy your groceries and those will not be made out of information.
The input of those groceries will be information. Farming used to be done by huge percentages of the population, now only around 2% of the population work as farmers, yet we have way more food than before. In the future, the labor that goes into farming will almost completely be gone and all farming will be automated. Then you will not be buying groceries that came to you by labor, but they came to you by a system of information which conducts the automation.

[Anonymous No.22947085]

>>22945069

>Very soon AI will be able to direct the robots to build more robots and to improve the AI itself
Post proof you work with AI and aren't just do lazy commie living with your parents in adulthood. whqt you are talking about is the singularity and its not happening "very soon."

[Anonymous No.22947098]

>>22947063
>What is the path forward then? Revolution?
I feel like a terrible French-style revolution is brewing in the US. Not soon, but maybe in a century or two. The groundwork is definitely being laid with absurd post-modern "sacrifice all for face-value diversity" insanity.
>Will porn, drugs, and TV anesthetize people towards low birthrates until the population dwindles away while the elite hoard the gains from the new economy?
Systems strive towards equilibrium and like it or not, the West is full. Food and rent generally keep increasing in price, among other things, and wages haven't kept pace. It's the cost of living throttling population, not diversions. Diversions are just a way to cope with the madness.

Both the overpopulation and face-value diversity (you're brown but your culture is 99% American so who gives a fuck) is foisted by capitalist desires. Face-value diversity across the world is for marketing reasons. Once again, if the USA and China are "brazilified" then all of these countries will be a market for the same Air Jordans. As for population, while people are inclined to settle on a natural equilibrium, the importing of immigrants for cheap labor disrupts the equilibrium with the intention of keeping costs lower and increasing the consumer base, or people taking on debt.
There is a big transfer or wealth coming up as the boomers age but what might make or break society is where the money goes with the younger generation. If it's gobbled up or vanishes, then that's it, there's no middle class at all.
Most mortal men don't think ahead for more than next week anon. If you can think and plan for six years ahead then you're a god compared to most people. "Where did my job go?" "Why is my investment tanking? I thought number go up!" Jews aren't a good example but they know capitalism has a natural rhythm of boom and bust and let each other know about it.

[Anonymous No.22947112]

>>22947085
What are you talking about? Robots already manufacture tons of things. Whether we reach a point where zero labor is required or not, you can't argue the fact that the ratio of labor inputs to production outputs is shrinking rapidly. That's the definition of technological progress which is happening all the time. Again, AI may not be able to take over all tasks, and may require a small amount of highly technical labor input, but we've already seen mass amounts of industry be automated and this is just the start. Engage with what I have said, technology is continuing to reduce the ratio of labor needed to production output. Don't hide behind claims that some event will or won't take place, I am speaking only of the process of labor elimination which is demonstrably happening right now. Hell, this is the main point that Capitalists crow about, the increase of production efficiency!

[Anonymous No.22947132]

>>22947085
What are you talking about? Robots already manufacture tons of things. Whether we reach a point where zero labor is required or not, you can't argue the fact that the amount of labor inputs needed is shrinking rapidly to a given production output. That's the definition of technological progress which is happening all the time. Again, AI may not be able to take over all tasks, and may require a small amount of highly technical labor input, but we've already seen mass amounts of industry be automated and this is just the start. Engage with what I have said, technology is continuing to reduce the ratio of labor needed to production output. Don't hide behind claims that some event will or won't take place, I am speaking only of the process of labor elimination which is demonstrably happening right now. Hell, this is the main point that Capitalists crow about, the increase of production efficiency!

[Anonymous No.22947161]

>>22947098
You make many good points. I believe that the current "diversity madness" have been deliberately fostered by centers of capital (Larry Fink comes to mind) precisely because it poses no threat at all to the profit model while distracting the energy of activists who might otherwise criticize the overall distribution of wealth, something which would certainly be threatening to the current profit models, or rather, to who gains from them.

I think it's an overwhelming likelihood that inheritance will not translate into any meaningful middle class. As you said, most people are horrendous with money, especially a sudden windfall of money (just look at lotto winners). What is needed are middle class occupations, jobs which unthinking people can be slotted into which provide an on-going basis of financial security. I am constantly amazed with how people can waste their money and spend years in a high paying job only to be left on the brink when they lose that income.

I think there is something to be said for "cycles of empires", and the USA is right in the danger period of historical time when an empire crashes and burns. Whether this happens in the next few decades or a century from now is anyone's guess, but it certainly seems to be what is destined.

[Anonymous No.22947173]

>>22947161
>been deliberately fostered by centers of capital
Yes, the old Occupy Wall Street silver bullet, "progressivism".
> I am constantly amazed with how people can waste their money and spend years in a high paying job only to be left on the brink when they lose that income
Some people are financial bacteria colonies and will just take on all the debt that they can manage.
The USA could fracture so easily, and frankly survive so much without the burden of federal regulation.

[Anonymous No.22947179]

>>22943871
Bastani means Ice Cream in Aarons native Persian

[Anonymous No.22947200]

>>22947173
>Yes, the old Occupy Wall Street silver bullet, "progressivism".
This is one of the more underrated of the "conspiracy theories". I think it has overwhelming merit.

[Anonymous No.22947266]

>>22947200
Ah, yes "conspiracy theory" has to be in quotes now. It's so sad, when I point out that certain agencies (recently environmentalists) have a paid incentive to maintain a one-sided debate then it's a "conspiracy theory". The facts are on the table.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvJqmAwDQdk

[Anonymous No.22947285]

>>22943871
>>22947179
>Aaron Bastani was born as Aaron Peters in Bournemouth to a single mother, who died in 2015. She was employed in cleaning, the service industry and social care, and voted for the Conservative Party. His Iranian father Mammad Bastani was made a British refugee during the Iranian Revolution. He took his father's name Bastani in 2014.

Bastani btw.