The current, masculine ideal seem to either boil down to a caveman power fantasy or to being an unfeeling provider drone. Are there any authors who has an alternative or at least a more nuanced vision without descending into partisan political subversion? Homoerotic or not.

File: 6 KB, 218x216, 1694529095537575.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 19:50:40 2023 No.22881233 [Reply] [Original]

The current, masculine ideal seem to either boil down to a caveman power fantasy or to being an unfeeling provider drone.
Are there any authors who has an alternative or at least a more nuanced vision without descending into partisan political subversion?
Homoerotic or not.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 19:51:20 2023 No.22881237 >>22881233 Start with the Greeks

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 19:54:04 2023 No.22881250 >>22881233 You should ask HR

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 19:56:27 2023 No.22881261

Tbh people who are concerns about masculine this or masculine that are probably some real insecure people. I really don’t see how it’s different from any other kind of sexuality based identity politics. Basically I think feminists are fucking idiots for claiming kinship with half the population of the world, so I don’t think the “Mano sphere” is any better. Be an individual, not a “man”.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 19:58:36 2023 No.22881273 >>22881261 Cuck

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 19:59:32 2023 No.22881280 >>22881233 Birth chart mars placement analyses ofc

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:01:03 2023 No.22881284

>>22881273
No, the cuck is someone who is consciously comparing themselves with half the population of the world, which is something you are explicitly doing by concerning yourself with “masculinity”. This is literally tribalism on a grand scale, perfect for midwits who cannot form their own personality and identity

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:03:01 2023 No.22881292 >>22881284 Don't even engage with someone who just cusses you out like that

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:03:23 2023 No.22881295 >>22881284 You're just a woman.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:04:32 2023 No.22881299

>>22881261
>Be an individual, not a “man”
I think that the more postmodern ilk of feminists also believe this. And while I don't consider myself a feminist (since women don't constitute a single class of people, and as such don't really have any shared interests, i.e. there are both proletarian and bourgeois women) I agree with many of their views, including the view that individuals shouldn't necessarily conform to the normative expectations of their gender.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:04:43 2023 No.22881300 >>22881284 ywnbaw

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:05:23 2023 No.22881302 >>22881261 >>22881284 This sort of crap is just demoralization to make men feel befuddled and emasculated.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:05:42 2023 No.22881303 >>22881300 >>22881295 Cope and seethe, pretend I am whoever you need me to be. Go back to your Andrew tate or whatever. One day you’ll grow to and see how fucking silly you are

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:09:56 2023 No.22881321 >>22881303 You should feel fucking stupid for pretending masculinity isn't a real thing and espousing some bullshit about how we're all the same or whatever... people like you have zero respect for nature and its biological essentialism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:10:03 2023 No.22881322 >>22881302 >b urself >”I am confused” Why do you need someone who doesn’t know you to tell you how to live?

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:10:53 2023 No.22881326

>>22881299
I'm reminded of the Buddhas analysis of sexuality. Won't posit the entire thing but basically he regards your sex as another thing you kinda end up with based on your past actions.
So one life you'll be a woman, another a man. When you're a man you find that things are affected in one way, when you're a woman, another way. What benefit is there in identifying with this happenstance?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:11:12 2023 No.22881328 >>22881321 Literal straw man, two times in a row. Learn to read

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:11:27 2023 No.22881330 >>22881322 Telling men they don't need to be men isn't something men want to hear.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:12:26 2023 No.22881333 >>22881326 (Not to say, of course, that he posits ignoring the way your sexuality affects you. Simply, why hold on to it?)

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:12:53 2023 No.22881335 >>22881328 But that's what exactly what you're saying, "be an individual" permeates with this sort of feminist, anti-patriarchal way of thinking. You see the vitalism of masculinity as a joke to be prodded at and subverted.

>>	skibidi fazbear Thu Dec 28 20:14:24 2023 No.22881341 >>22881237 This. Unironically. Read Plato.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:17:30 2023 No.22881352

>>22881261
Young men sperging out about masculinity are doing so out of a place of insecurity, that is correct. However, I don't think you can compare the search for the masculine ideal with feminism. Feminism is an ideological movement, while masculinity (like femininity) is a divine concept. People engage in the former to place themselves in a societal context, fight for resources, claim cultural power, in short: engaging in feminism is a grab for societal power. Striving for masculinity/femininity is not primarily concerned with one's standing in society or with one's power in society. It is a very personal and deeply spiritual quest that puts you in touch with the humans before and after you. That's also why feminism is inherently corrupt, but femininity/masculinity could never be corrupt. Of course, the grifters of the world build groups around these concepts and corrupt those, but the archetypes can not be touched by a mortal soul.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:18:20 2023 No.22881353

>>22881335
No, I see identity politics as a joke, and I see this new “crisis of masculinity” as it’s latest iteration. Now, I understand you are all very serious people who are trying to understand the mysteries of the cosmos, but there is no one-size-fits-all Platonic form of “masulinity”. So rather than chase a chimera, or wait for society to literally prescribe you a “gender role”, why not self-actualize? Gender, race, it’s all a complete a total distraction and is used to snare shallow minds.

I am simply baffled because it would never occur to me or my friends in the 90s to fucking debate what it “meant to be a nan”. Honestly the whole idea is laughable to me. You’re a man already, no?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:20:45 2023 No.22881362 >>22881233 The current "ideal" is a massive neurotic projection, so that makes sense, yes. >>22881237 Wow, FPBP

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:21:10 2023 No.22881366 >>22881284 Absolute capitalist bugman brain rot. Your “identity politics” is the need to believe that you are a special snowflake completely atomized and seperated from others.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:21:40 2023 No.22881371 >>22881353 ^^ Preach

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:22:17 2023 No.22881373 >>22881233 >Are there any authors who has an alternative or at least a more nuanced vision? The nuanced alternative you're looking for is feminism.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:22:24 2023 No.22881375

>>22881352
> Striving for masculinity/femininity is not primarily concerned with one's standing in society or with one's power in society. It is a very personal and deeply spiritual quest that puts you in touch with the humans before and after you.
See I don’t quite agree here and I in fact see a tension. Gender/sex ONLY matters in reference to other people. I am only conscious of my cock because I know about all the pussies out there (some are in this very thread). If you were alone it would really never occur to you to think about your gender or sexuality. Sex is biological, yes; the urge to procreate is biological, yes; but “sexuality” as a concept only forms during socialization. It requires points of reference outside oneself.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:24:02 2023 No.22881383

>>22881335
Most "masculine" men already lack vitalism. If you consider striving and overcoming yourself masculine then I agree, that is vitalistic, but most men don't, they are perfectly satisfied conforming to the most stereotypical definition of what is masculine. Like, have you seen the average man? Why would you want to conform to such an idiotic, philistinic and boorish mode of being?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:25:09 2023 No.22881390 >>22881366 Idiot

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:26:37 2023 No.22881397 >>22881383 Which is exactly what the OP was alluding to before you muddied it up with your “just be an individual bro”. I think the insecure one is the person trying to act as if masculinity as a concept can’t be discussed lmao

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:29:18 2023 No.22881408

>>22881353
Of course people in the 90s were not concerned with masculinity because they were living in a still stable world and were high on consumerism. Since the dawn of men people around the world celebrated and meditated on masculinity and femininity. They engaged in rituals and rules and studied these two different characteristics of the human form. You are describing the "self-actualizing" men and I believe you are doing this in good faith, because you believe in the idea of this post-modern notion of the individual. The blank slate that magically writes itself and therefore can be free from the oppressive forces of society, but this ideal actually only produces soulless NPCs without any connection to what it means to be a human. The individual which transcends gender and race faces the oppression of the void and loneliness. It can never be fully human.
Identity politics is a joke, not because of it's basic theory, but because of it's conclusions.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:33:09 2023 No.22881417

>>22881353
>No, I see identity politics as a joke, and I see this new “crisis of masculinity” as it’s latest iteration.
Then get your head out of your ass already and see that these "identity politics" will continue to persist and escalate as long as social atomization occurs from your dogmatic pursuit towards muddying the fine distinctions of genders.
>Now, I understand you are all very serious people who are trying to understand the mysteries of the cosmos, but there is no one-size-fits-all Platonic form of “masulinity”.
Yes there is. You can read any historical text and intuitively understand what made so and so man masculine.
>I am simply baffled because it would never occur to me or my friends in the 90s to fucking debate what it “meant to be a nan”.
The damage was already done by then, but I guess you never bothered to question why your society is so cucked and full of an overwhelmingly female-dominated education complex with women taking up every single worthless bureaucratic position just to have an excuse to boss you around.
>>22881383
Acting like a man is already one stop towards reclaiming your power process deprived from you by the gynocentric techno-industrial complex. I'm not delusional enough to believe these people have "fully" achieved it, only that the death of their generation (because very few zoomers, if any, can be considered masculine) is a very grave foreboding for what's to come.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:33:15 2023 No.22881418 >>22881261 >who cares if youre an emascualted basedcuck, at least you are you!

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:33:35 2023 No.22881420 >>22881408 >The individual which transcends gender and race faces the oppression of the void and loneliness. It can never be fully human. HOLY BASED!

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:36:23 2023 No.22881432

>>22881375
That's a fair point, but humans are never alone and always exist in the context of a society. A truly separated human does not exist, and I would even argue that this would not be a human but a very advanced naked monkey. I like the biblical metaphor where God divides Adam, the first man, into man and woman. Masculinity only makes sense in the light of femininity and vice versa. But these conditions will always be around, without them we would not be humans.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:36:31 2023 No.22881433 File: 37 KB, 600x600, A6C67C8C-C907-40D7-864B-68A325D9B76F.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>22881353 Was Plato before or after the 90s?

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:36:37 2023 No.22881434

>>22881233
When I was in a buddhist monastery some guy taught me a bit of energy meditation and since then I feel much more manly. I can feel my sexual energy as it rises and it's much more clear to me the way lust arises when I look at a woman.
Manly as in: more in tune with the manly parts of my being, to wit, the penis, the testicles, the desire for virility, the narrow sightedness. I can feel it rising out of me in a natural way and then I think: oh wow, that's what the old authors talk about.
Sometimes I feel old writings were more in tune with the base existence of male/woman. Doris lessing is a modern author which also gave me this sense.
The Buddhists say that at a certain level of concentration, one is free of the male or the female form, unbound by it. But for us common people, what is being a gender? I am obviously a man. I am obviously affected by ideas of how a man should act.
As to your question, whenever I read literature about aristocrats I appreciate the roles males fulfill there.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:43:33 2023 No.22881457 >>22881433 How is this exclusive to males?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:43:59 2023 No.22881460 >>22881433 This quote isn't real thoughbeit

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:44:59 2023 No.22881463 Anons, please refrain from using harsh language unnecessarily. We are all trying our best, and everyone is charged up on 4ch anyhow. A good discussion thread is always a moment from turning to a mudsling. And aren't those getting a bit stale?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:52:19 2023 No.22881490 >>22881457 fucking lmao, I'd love to see and hear how Plato would've responded to that question

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 20:53:33 2023 No.22881494 >>22881292 >cusses you out are you a fourth grader? go back to wherever you came from, faggot

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 21:03:02 2023 No.22881532 >>22881457 Who said it was? But it is definitely about masculinity. >>22881460 You are right, the quote seems to be a pretty bad translation from the original.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 21:04:27 2023 No.22881535 >>22881494 Manners, young man!

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 21:10:42 2023 No.22881550 >>22881237 Fpbp and thread

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 21:25:22 2023 No.22881587

>>22881532
>Who said it was? But it is definitely about masculinity.
How could effeminacy be included as part of the masculine essence without diluting it?
That quote is clearly not attempting to define masculinity, just advocating a balance of traits as the ideal.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 21:30:07 2023 No.22881599 >>22881433 >intellectualism is a feminine trait No one's going to take issue with this notion? That's unexpected.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 21:35:50 2023 No.22881626 can we start talking about trannies yet?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 21:41:52 2023 No.22881651 >>22881233 unironically blood meridian

>>	Cult of Passion Thu Dec 28 21:46:54 2023 No.22881659 File: 202 KB, 780x470, 2023-06-14_15.39.18.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>22881626 What is a man?

>>	Cult of Passion Thu Dec 28 21:52:46 2023 No.22881685 File: 19 KB, 400x400, nCHrdjlh_400x400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>22881233 >caveman power fantasy or to being an unfeeling provider drone Why not both? Become a feared opponent in any realm of human endeavor.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:18:15 2023 No.22881774
File: 118 KB, 1000x694, titus2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

For me its Shakespeare, Xenophon, Suetonius. A little bit of Machiavelli, a little bit of Melville. Pechorin is a model for us all.

Anglo masculinity is too tied down with consumerism to provide a useful guide. Be a workhorse, buy a bigger car, buy a bigger house, put food on the table for your fat whore of a wife and bastard spawn. Then you have the usual parade of right wing grifters, preying on the insecurities of horny teenagers to sell them on the military-prison-finance-industrial-complex. Actual fascists are pretty cool though: Marinetti, Mussolini, Mishima, and all the rest. Pessimists like Emil Cioran, Arthur Schopenhauer, etc. have more manly vitality and love-of-life in them than any pill pushing self-promoter on the Joe Rogan podcast.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:20:30 2023 No.22881782 >>22881233 Well, millennials did a wonderful job destroying gender roles and identities so now we have women with penises.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:21:09 2023 No.22881784 >>22881233 God i wish i was a caveman

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:21:35 2023 No.22881787 >>22881233 Working on it presently, you can expect it to be self published and personally shilled on here by late 2024/early 2025.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:26:27 2023 No.22881804 >>22881233 I've been posting about him too often lately, but yet again the answer here is to read DH Lawrence.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:30:10 2023 No.22881822

The most masculine thing is going to war, everything that involves risking your life, fighting wild dangerous beasts, sailing on some boat over the ocean, leading, going to some wild dangerous forest. Hard, dangerous jobs are second in command. Almost everything else is effeminate bullshit.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:35:11 2023 No.22881834

>>22881822
War sucks, nobody should have to go to war. War is only fun if you're in some caveman prehistory where life is a video game and you don't mind dying at 23 in a botched raid because the Woodoo Spirit told you that you will reincarnate with a 2x bigger dick.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:37:26 2023 No.22881841 >>22881834 Of course war sucks, it's still the most masculine thing a man can do, fight against other men over life or death.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:42:01 2023 No.22881849 >>22881841 So does manhood boil down to being a violent nigger? That's pretty bleak.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:44:50 2023 No.22881858 >>22881849 > violent nigger Is honourable knight a term to you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:45:34 2023 No.22881863 >>22881858 semantics

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:49:10 2023 No.22881875 >>22881863 The nigger is violent to steal 50 bucks and a bag of coke from another nigger. Does this compare to a knight Templar fighting for the Christian cause?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:51:30 2023 No.22881888 >>22881875 How does it not?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:51:50 2023 No.22881890 >>22881822 masculinity is about having a good time with your buddies

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 22:53:55 2023 No.22881902 >>22881888 One serves an immediate, narrow-minded material outcome paired with an extremely low esteem for the value of human life. The other serves a higher ideal at the stake of one's own life.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 23:01:25 2023 No.22881934 >>22881902 At least you can do something with 50 bucks. Imagine killing and risking your life for a schizo desert jinn that doesn't even exist. Mental illness.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 23:03:01 2023 No.22881938 >>22881934 Dying is based and red-pilled.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 23:24:51 2023 No.22882008 >>22881587 Thats again not the point. Its still a discussion about the essences of masculinity and feminity, which was supposedly only a recent invention.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 23:52:27 2023 No.22882102 >>22881261 >Embracing femininity makes you stunning and brave >Embracing masculinity makes you insecure kys

>>	Cult of Passion Thu Dec 28 23:55:29 2023 No.22882115 >>22881834 I literally lived through a Call of Duty - Base Defence minigame for several months. The graphics was unreal, the haptic feedback literally broke my bones, smell-o-visiona! The smell of mortars in the morning!

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 00:43:22 2023 No.22882298 File: 1.28 MB, 3374x4933, 1495._Knut_Hamsun_-_no-nb_digifoto_20150126_00002_bldsa_HA0239_(cropped).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>22881890 hell yeah Picrel is a real answer

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 01:46:32 2023 No.22882543 >>22882102 moron

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 02:12:28 2023 No.22882644 >>22881352 >masculinity (like femininity) is a divine concept shut the fuck up.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 02:15:27 2023 No.22882649 >>22881373 feminism isn't nuanced at all. it all boils down the elimination of the male sex entirely, regardless if the intentions are pure at first.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 02:29:29 2023 No.22882683 >>22881261 Be a clan, not an individual.

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 02:31:16 2023 No.22882688

>>22881352
That numale creature probably doesn't even know what he's talking about. He's equating masculinity to some compensation and he probably really thinks that there's only "masculinity" which reddit talks about. While OP made it pretty clear what he's trying to find. But you're also wrong, calling someone insecure for seeking something is an attack. Insecurity is too vague of a term with an implication of impotence and comical weakness. Young men's search for maissculinity is defined by trying to gain independence from the modern society and comeadery with other men (in the broad overview). Calling it an insequrity is placing it into the system of thought where rejecting conformism and attempting to gain a genuine identity is somehow laughable and pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 02:33:44 2023 No.22882694 >>22881352 Masculinism does exist though

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 02:36:46 2023 No.22882702 >>22881233 obligatory response which reads "Plato"

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 02:44:18 2023 No.22882723

>>22881261
This. Anons seething at you showing their asses. Collectives are for the mediocre who need to hang on a group

At the end of the day, to be a man, you must define that for yourself and do it. There is no playbook. There is no guide. A man marches to the beat of his own drum. A man can deal with adversity. A man knows himself. The insect thinking and hive mind of some anons here is disgusting

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 02:52:46 2023 No.22882749 >>22881875 >Does this compare to a knight Templar fighting for the Christian cause? Do people really believe the crusades were anything other than a failed attempt at land grabbing?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 02:57:42 2023 No.22882767 >>22882749 Apparently. I guess it all depends on what side is doing it >our noble warriors vs your criminals >our ___ vs your ___

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 03:01:36 2023 No.22882780 >>22881261 Based, and what could be more masculine than being an individual anyway? Masculinity is self sufficience.

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 05:58:23 2023 No.22883415

>>22881233
This >>22881237 is the right answer. The rest of this thread is mindless back and forth with the three things you mentioned.
>people siding with the "alpha" definition
>people siding with the unfeeling / stagnant definition (i.e. "men are men by being men so there's no point in further explanation")
The former with right wing undertones and the latter with apoliticism. Like clockwork. I think Plato is your best bet, dude was ripped mentally and physically and talks about the pinnacle of self hundreds of years before it became "based".

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 13:55:09 2023 No.22884417
File: 137 KB, 809x750, longhoused faggot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>22881302
>>22881418
>>22882102
>I'm only manly if le cool nigger and woman in my heads thinks I'm masculine!!!
the guy you responded to is absolutely correct, you freaks are so insecure you genuinely need validation to feel masculine

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 13:58:47 2023 No.22884429 >>22881685 buy an ad

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 14:07:17 2023 No.22884453 >>22881685 This guy has such a feminine and stereotypical view on being a man that I'm pretty sure it's just insecurity

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 14:13:47 2023 No.22884471 >>22882749 >failed

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 14:25:48 2023 No.22884501 Vigen Geodakian solved all of this.

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 15:30:53 2023 No.22884659

To be happy you must live in agreement with your nature. The whole and sole perk of being a male is that nobody will care about you. Whereas the sole perk of being a vagina is that all the men will be desperate to talk to you and give you free stuff spontaneously.The male nature is to be forever alone. On the female side, it is not all rosy, women hate to have a flock of ugly orbiters, and they hate it even more when there is physical contact with those. In other words women hate that too much men care about them. So everybody is unhappy, especially the men. Thanks to a twist, women are actually happy because, doing it for free, the chad orbiters will beat up the ugly orbiters for the sake of the women.
So to be happy as a male you must rejoyce in being a loser. This is the only truth in the universe.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 15:51:54 2023 No.22884724 >>22882723 Exactly

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 16:02:59 2023 No.22884747 >>22884659 In the 50s they said 'a man is never alone'. What happened?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 16:07:49 2023 No.22884769 >>22881233 I did not even read your post, I have no idea what this whole thread about, I have no fucking idea who you are, I just wanted to say that I hate you so fucking much.

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 16:12:44 2023 No.22884786

>>22882723
>Be an individual! The concept of masculinity is for hive mind cucks anyway
>By the way here are 4 elements I feel are essential to being a man

Are you a bit retarded? Why is everyone sperging about individualism in this thread? The original post specifically asked for books about the different interpretations of masculinity because of the conformity encouraged by modern definitions.

You aren’t special because you pretend like you are an isolated individual!

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 16:17:16 2023 No.22884800 autism is the ideal M schizophrenia is the ideal F

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 16:24:12 2023 No.22884836
File: 759 KB, 1362x1506, 604295.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Sexy men who straddle the line between masculinity and femininity are everywhere in anime, where are they in literature? And why do Western scrotes always forget women are attracted to that?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 16:25:06 2023 No.22884843 >>22884769 sup janny. Which of my posts did it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 16:27:32 2023 No.22884852 >>22884836 >why do Asians depict more feminine men

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 16:45:59 2023 No.22884900 >>22884836 There's plety of feminine men in literature. Hesse's Demian for example.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 17:22:45 2023 No.22885041 >>22884836 Achilles is like the first Western hero and displayed these traits. Go back to the anime

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 17:29:07 2023 No.22885059

>>22881233
Aubrey-Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian.
More commonly referred to as the Master and Commander series.

Follows two friends. One, a robust naval officer ascending the ranks of the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic Wars. The other, a surgeon and natural philosopher, who also happens to be an ex-Irish revolutionary and loves to duel.

Both men are masculine in the traditional sense - being strong, logical, passionate - but also well attuned to their emotions and the world around them. Almost every night they sit and play music together (one the violin, the other the cello). They dine in polite society with all the trappings and manners of that world, they write in various forms, and they have a wonderful example of male friendship.

Oh, and Jack Aubrey is an incorrigeable womanizer whilst Stephen Maturin is a spy.

Great, great books.

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 17:45:16 2023 No.22885124

>>22884786
Because it’s the only thing that makes any kind of practical sense. Every other attempt to define masculinity will end up as an appeal to authority, ie, to be masculine you have to be like “that guy over there”. Well what makes “that guy over there” masculine in the first place? Hint: he isn’t in a thread like this

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:06:24 2023 No.22885201 >>22881233 >the masculine ideal is homo-coded You're getting there.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:09:07 2023 No.22885212 >>22885124 Lol so masculinity isn’t real, but you also have the only correct definition of it. Sounds like you are just a confused Westoid bug who wants to muddy the waters.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:15:54 2023 No.22885235 >>22881261 You're always going to hit a nerve with this topic, as >>22881273 >>22881300 and >>22881418 demonstrate. It's demoralizing.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:17:21 2023 No.22885248 >>22885212 You are incapable of independent thought

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:21:24 2023 No.22885263 >>22885248 Ask yourself, are you independent by choice, or because you have no friends, family, or community. I almost guarantee its the latter.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:23:34 2023 No.22885268 >>22885235 I love when people say something gay and demonstrably incorrect and then they respond to the criticism by saying they must have “touched a nerve”.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:41:52 2023 No.22885329 >>22885263 Lol. Ultima ratio retardum.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:42:50 2023 No.22885333 >>22881463 >>22881494 I can't tell who's baiting, but if they're serious, I do think 4chan could stand to lose those pointless one word responses to long, thought-out posts. Do we need guys who's best argument is "kys faggot"?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:46:10 2023 No.22885347 >>22881261 Based and true

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:48:03 2023 No.22885354 >>22881237 >love boys, but fuck your wife instead uhhh thanks i guess plato...

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:51:02 2023 No.22885366 >>22885329 Laugh all you want, you know its true. You never even had the chance to “conform” because you couldn’t and were rejected by others because of it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 18:58:59 2023 No.22885388 >>22885366 You don’t know one damn thing about me. But boy have I learned something about you

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 19:05:07 2023 No.22885403 >>22885388 Wow, what an independent thought!

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 19:10:56 2023 No.22885424 File: 507 KB, 2014x2048, 3CDB21C1-0ACA-43C8-93EC-2FDDBC0E5F4F.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Do shit that you want to do. Stop obsessing over whether you are masculine enough or not. Doing so, ironically, makes you a lot less masculine.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 19:26:18 2023 No.22885476 >Phneposter >Wjackposter >Adds nothing that wasn't already said in the first 10 posts Not even worth a pity (You)

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 19:27:22 2023 No.22885481 Virgil, Plutarch, medieval literature in general

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 22:44:31 2023 No.22886165 >>22885268 Yeah plus that argument applies infinitely more to OP who must have surely touched a nerve since these cucks start seething at the mere mention of masculinity as a concept.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 29 23:12:49 2023 No.22886300 >>22886165 Kek fr. Maybe people feel like masculinity is becoming subverted because the mere mention of it leads to screeching autism, pathologizing, and concern trolling

Anonymous Fri Dec 29 23:57:57 2023 No.22886486

>>22881353
>but there is no one-size-fits-all Platonic form of “masulinity”
>Platonic
Funny that you use that word because Plato's chief dialogue is quite literally partly about dissecting the form of the perfect man, which he does
>it would never occur to me or my friends in the 90s
Nevermind, you're a lost boomer. It all makes sense now. Please stick to discussions of things that are in your purview like retro gaming or craft beer or whatever you midwits get up to.
>>22882688
>Calling it an insequrity is placing it into the system of thought where rejecting conformism and attempting to gain a genuine identity is somehow laughable and pathetic
It's Freudian gaslighting 101. Jews do it all the time.

Anonymous Sat Dec 30 00:01:05 2023 No.22886497

>>22884836
those men only tow the line between masc and fem on a very superficial secondary characteristic level
they're not actually feminine in their behaviour, that would be repulsive
in the ancient world calling a woman "manly" was a high compliment
feminine isn't a counterpart to masculinity, it's the active lack of certain virtues
because women don't have to become women the way men have to become men, women already are and always are just by virtue of their bodies, mother nature is eternal

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 30 00:02:30 2023 No.22886502 File: 328 KB, 750x374, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>22886497 this basically, on a symbolic level (or more maybe) that's why we all start out female in the womb

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/lit/ - Literature