/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22879203]

Thoughts on Ian M. Bank's Culture series? Seems like it deals with some rather unnerving concepts involving
the blurring of the line between the artificial and organic.

[Anonymous No.22879249]

>>22879203
couldn't get past the unsubtle preachy leftism

much prefer Alistair Reynolds, both in terms of writing and in scientific depth

[Anonymous No.22879287]

>I AM BANKS
Pretty tasteless to brag about your royalties on the cover like that

[Anonymous No.22879294]

Some of it's really good (excessive, player of games, use of weapons) and some isnkind of meh. Its usually entertaining but it's much less serious than it seems at first.
The author is a giant leftist but leftism makes sense in a post scarcity world with benevolent machine gods.

[Anonymous No.22879701]

>>22879294
>The author is a giant leftist but leftism makes sense in a post scarcity world with benevolent machine gods.
Sort of. Banks writes a utopian (as a leftist) world, but fails to ever challenge it. The robots never get any ideas beyond the prime directive of maintaining communist paradise for humans, there is no real strife within the society amongst the humans due to the assumption of a constant omnibenevolent AI presence, and perhaps most egregiously The Culture itself is presented as ruthlessly expansionist and yet does not ever get truly challenged by another power of its level - in Consider Phlebas, the Idirans were only able to make initial gains on The Culture due to the fact that they were entirely geared up for war from the outset and there were various cultural factors and so on (like the fact that they hadn't been at war for thousands of years) that restrained TC from crushing them. Once those were out of the way, The Culture's gears totally obliterated their war machine with very few losses. The books often explore the failures of other systems that Banks hates (the infamous and frankly eyeroll worthy torture scenes in POG come to mind), but he can't bear to allow any real criticisms of his Culture that aren't ultimately subsumed or mocked - and even then, limited to the first book in the series.

I do enjoy the series, but you have to read it with a certain amount of suspension of belief as it's a very heavyhanded sort of Gramscian power fantasy.

pic unrelated but it's the kind of thing Banks wanted society to get away from (albeit only to focus on hedonism)

[Anonymous No.22879725]

>>22879203
I've rread it and it's just bad.

[Anonymous No.22879732]

>>22879203
I've only read Consider Phlebas and Player of Games, neither of which I would consider good. A moderately interesting world but the stories didn't do much for me, Player of Games is a good example of 'Good world bad story'.
>>22879249
The books are full of preachy leftism, I wasn't a fan either. I like Alistair Reynolds but he's not perfect.

Also interesting contrast
>In Reynolds world people get life extension and life for hundreds of years
>In Bank's world they get bored after a few hundred and kill themselves

[Anonymous No.22879737]

>>22879249
>>22879732
Where do you start with Reynolds?

[Anonymous No.22879751]

>>22879737
There's a slightly confusing reading order due to the short stories, but start with Revelation Space, if you like it you can look into the other stories, which I believe can be read before the next book. Chasm City is my favourite book, Inhibitor Phase was shit, I dropped it, so I would recommend just ending with Absolution Gap honestly but it's up to you.

His books are quite good but not perfect. Read The Commonwealth Saga instead, probably my favourite scifi series.

[Anonymous No.22879768]

>>22879751
I will likely read the first three books of the main series and Chasm City after the first, going by the publication dates, thank you. I shall also check out Hamilton's work, though on first glance he does seem a touch like a young adult author.

[Anonymous No.22880044]

>>22879203
Magical, sandbox like without lots of internal contradictions, preachy, lefty, cultures tech dominance works as a deus ex machina bit too much, comfy, very entertaining and nice world building. Not for people who's first reaction to getting to heaven is "as if equality and peace ever worked lmao cucks". For some reason unrealistic optimism angers people way more than the pessimistic counterpart. I liked surface detail and look to windward the most.

[Anonymous No.22880087]

>>22880044
>Not for people who's first reaction to getting to heaven is "as if equality and peace ever worked lmao cucks".
You've misread this entirely, most people not on the hard left would not consider Banks' society "Heaven" to begin with.

[Anonymous No.22880108]

>>22879701
>but he can't bear to allow any real criticisms of his Culture that aren't ultimately subsumed or mocked - and even then, limited to the first book in the series.
dunno, the existence of contact is his crititsm is it not?
The fact that he freely admits that interesting stories about the culture can be told on its fringes or by outsiders is his admission of this. Excession being the exception to his is part of why that novels so good.

[Anonymous No.22880152]

>>22879751
> I would recommend just ending with Absolution Gap honestly
Even Absolution Gap itself is a huge drop desu. The guy can really set up some conflicts and plots, but like 95% of them he fucking nosedives into asphalt when he tries to resolve them. Would be better off just leaving literally every thing he set up unresolved desu.

>>22880044
> Not for people who's first reaction to getting to heaven is "as if equality and peace ever worked lmao cucks".
The Culture is almost Lovecraftian horror-tier in just how indescribably, mind-warpingly lame it is as a, well, culture. I am a huge red leftist faggot and I'm still with >>22880087 - it's nauseous that someone might even consider something like the Culture desirable at all, much less some kind of an end goal.

[Anonymous No.22880155]

>>22880108
Contact is able, apparently, to mathematically prove that its existence and actions lessen the suffering in the world (I believe this occurs in the epilogue of the first book), so I would consider that one to fit under "ultimately subsumed" myself.

[Anonymous No.22880157]

>>22880155
>mathematically prove that its existence and actions lessen the suffering in the world
I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[Anonymous No.22880160]

>>22880155
>the world
Obviously I meant it in the colloquial "universally" term, though it's quite a funny usage in context. Apologies.

[Anonymous No.22880161]

>>22880155
You can use mathematical to prove anything when you control the variables. I wouldn't see it as passing the buck so much as the same actions intelligence organizations use in real life to justify their contained existence.

[Anonymous No.22880171]

>>22880157
>>22880161
To Banks' credit, this is not presented nearly as self-satisfied as summarising it like that would imply - the context is that one of the main characters of the book, affiliated with the culture, puts herself into cryosleep with the stipulation that she be woken up by the governing AIs when they can prove that the war that took place during the events of the book was justified relative to the losses. She ultimately is woken up with the proof in question and decides to kill herself (presumably not accepting it, alluding to something deeper existing beyond The Culture's bland mathematically perfect paradise).

[Anonymous No.22880191]

>>22879203
Player of Games and Use of Weapons were entertaining but kind of low-stakes. Can’t imagine getting emotionally invested in either. I’ve heard Excession is the funniest/quirkiest one, should I read that anons?

[Anonymous No.22880218]

>>22880191
>kind of low-stakes
Not sure what you mean here, at least for Player of Games. The point was that for Gurgeh, he was just playing a game and in little danger, while for the other side, the fate of the entire empire rested on the fate of the game (due to the threat made by Contact).