/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22870967]

Books explaining the modern man's obsession with atonality and trying to destroy & subvert harmony in music?

[Anonymous No.22870969]

How about books explaining OPs obsession?

[Anonymous No.22870970]

>>22870967
I don't know but I'm listening to medieval music rn

[Anonymous No.22870972]

>>22870967
Schoenberg raped your mind.

[Anonymous No.22870979]

>>22870970
Based. What are you listening to?

[Anonymous No.22870995]

>>22870967
>>22870969
op is actually kindling my interest on atonal music. out of the blue i feel like knowing for real what these guys are all about.

[Anonymous No.22871001]

>>22870995
>atonal music
It's just badly made tonal music. Take a piano and play the keys in a semi-random manner, careful to not repeat keys too often and you've got atonal music, add some random register changes for more effect.

[Anonymous No.22871004]

>>22871001
thank you tranime sister

[Anonymous No.22871006]

who needs a book to tell them music is sensuous experience and it's literally in our programming to grow sick of the same stimulus repeated ad infinitum?
any perceived atonality makes for new sounds which can be used to express more but still even without pretenses it's just different from the same shit you've been listening to all your life
now imagine being a musician with a lifetime worth of education on the topic broken down to the most discrete detail and how much worse it must be
it's like reading cliched lines in a book, only autists like that slop

[Anonymous No.22871008]

>>22870979
Percival's Lament. I'm going through a Spotify playlist called Minnesängers (12th and 13th Centuries).
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_llN3CiSQ1LWYitCNdEiIoUw4VGWitsSNI

[Anonymous No.22871011]

>>22871001
>this accurately describes most contemporary piano music
A scary world we live in.

[Anonymous No.22871019]

>>22871001
>Take a piano and play the keys in a semi-random manner, careful to not repeat keys too often and you've got atonal music
I don't buy it. A noob on the piano doesn't sound like Schoenberg (and he's not even a favourite).

[Anonymous No.22871035]

>>22870967

[Anonymous No.22871037]

>>22871019
A noob on the piano plays keys in default patterns he's comfortable with, touching the white keys because the blacks ones are hard, etc, etc.
If you take care to not repeat keys you've got the perception of "atonality". Now add some orchestration and make it seemingly musical by repeating the figures to give the impression of classical music.

[Anonymous No.22871059]

>>22871037
>touching the white keys because the blacks ones are hard
I swear I never understood this meme.

[Anonymous No.22871077]

>>22870995
The most known of the atonal composers is probably Arvo Part, most don't even realize that he is often atonal.

[Anonymous No.22871095]

>>22871077
This. and Phillip Glass and Hans Zimmer.

[Anonymous No.22871136]

>>22871001
>this is what non /mu/tants actually believe
lmao filtered
go listen to some Babbitt and Webern, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.22871226]

>>22871136
>Babbitt and Webern
Entartete

[Anonymous No.22871752]

OP is obviously a troll, but I'm just here to repeat what I've already said the previous thread. I've studied music, music theory, music history, etc. and I've had close encounters with contemporary composers. They're pretentious fucks and absolute charlatans and 99.9% of contemporary art music fucking sucks. They will do all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify their completely vertical and formless garbage sounding art.

The biggest cope they have is the notion that music and the arts are exactly like science and technology, i.e. that they're progressing linearly and that each next step means a better and more enlightened world. By this logic, music is only getting better with time, and all these people are contributing positively simply by exploring "new sounds" (replace "sounds" with extended techniques, forms of expression, or any other buzzword). No matter the final sonic result from the perspective of beauty or the reception of it (as if anybody normal actually wants to listen to this crap, it's just a circle jerk between other composers, musicologists, and critics), experimenting with sounds can be only be a good thing.

It's funny that I studied all of this and I've only grown to dislike art, artists, concert venues, museums, state-funded programs, etc. At least now I have a degree and I can say with complete confidence what everyone is thinking but are too scared to say because they get immediately shut down by the people who profit from this, i.e. the institutions and composers who suck on government funding and support, and the musicologists and critics who actually get paid to analyze and talk about this crap.

[Anonymous No.22871764]

I have been thinking about the dichotomy of freedom and quality in composers.
The old masters had to appeal to people with their music. This potentially restricted their expression, but enforced a certain level of quality to their work. It was human, not trying to destroy anything.
The new composer has the safety net of academia to help him and can ignore the listener, only to compose works nobody will listen to except for the premiere where it is played for 10 people. Even Samuel Andreyev and the likes are trying to lament this fact.

What do you guys think?

[Anonymous No.22871767]

>>22871752
>OP is obviously a troll
OP is telling truth to power.

[Anonymous No.22871770]

>>22871764
>The old masters had to appeal to people with their music
What makes you think that? Mozart didn't try to appeal to Hieronymus von Colloredo, Beethoven didn't give two shits what other people thought about his music, he had a clear vision, as did Wagner, post-virtuoso Liszt, Mahler, etc. Bach had to write stuff for the church and his royal employers, but even he found time to write stuff he really wanted (WTC, Art of the Fugue). The majority of composers had to write for a living, but that doesn't mean they tried to appeal to people.

[Anonymous No.22871773]

>>22871767
That's what I'm doing >>22871752

[Anonymous No.22871774]

>>22871770
>had to write for a living
That's what I mean. If they wrote garbage like John Cage they would be dying of hunger.

[Anonymous No.22871775]

>>22871773
So two people are fighting the powers that be. Based...

[Anonymous No.22871780]

>>22871774
I guess I just wanted to say that financial support was just a byproduct of their work and they would have written it regardless. Even John Cage would write the exact same crap, he'd just get a job on the side so that he wouldn't die of hunger.

[Anonymous No.22871785]

The absolute state of musicology.

>Tonality as a Social Construct: Tonality, the harmonic system that dominated Western music for several centuries, is more than a mere musical concept. It’s a social construct that teaches transparency, rationality, and deferred gratification. The tonal pieces, made up of leading tones, emphasize the idea of delayed gratification, a concept that has profound implications for how we understand our social being.
>Beethoven’s Resistance: Beethoven’s work, especially his later compositions, can be seen as a critique of the very system that tonality represents. His music often defies expectations, refusing to resolve in the way that listeners might anticipate. This resistance to resolution can be interpreted as a metaphor for the false promises of capitalism, where hard work does not always lead to success, and where the rules of the game are not always as clear-cut as they seem.
>Mahler’s Resurrection Symphony: Mahler’s Resurrection Symphony serves as another poignant example. It represents a desire to believe in something despite it being in tatters, a reflection of the disillusionment with the industrial revolution and capitalism that created a gap in the 19th century. The symphony’s complex structure and emotional depth capture the struggle to reconcile the ideals of progress with the harsh realities of industrialized society.

https://medium.com/@revivingvirtue/reviving-virtue-through-harmony-beethoven-capitalism-and-the-dialectics-of-enlightenment-97ac091e4b42

[Anonymous No.22871791]

>>22871785
https://youtu.be/KjGID6mGEWs?si=bR7ejpqIdSggZVeK

[Anonymous No.22871938]

Yeah... it's totally about capitalism...

Was entstanden ist,
das muss vergehen!
Was vergangen, aufersteh’n!
Hör' auf zu beben!
Bereite dich zu leben!

O Schmerz! Du Alldurchdringer!
Dir bin ich entrungen!
O Tod! Du Allbezwinger!
Nun bist du bezwungen!

What was created
Must perish;
What perished, rise again!
Cease from trembling!
Prepare yourself to live!

O Pain, you piercer of all things,
From you, I have been wrested!
O Death, you conqueror of all things,
Now, are you conquered!

[Anonymous No.22872206]

>>22870967
I don't know man, sometimes I think it's some cruel joke they're playing. I was listening to a contemporary classical composer in my country's national radio saying that they consider anyone that writes tonally these days a relic and that tonality's time is over.

[Anonymous No.22872214]

>>22872206
Ironically, that kind of opinion is ancient at this point. It's something someone 70 years ago would say. It's not groundbreaking or profound, at all.

[Anonymous No.22872217]

>>22871006
Perfect excuse for weak talentless artists that can't express something novel and pretend the system is the problem

[Anonymous No.22872220]

>>22870967
Talmud, (((Schoenberg)))'s favorite book

>>22870995
It's music under abstract theoretical principles and models of math and music theory. It's just jerking off and doesn't even sound good. Shostakovich is bel canto compared to them
Only Xenakis is worth it because he was a mathematician, not a musician

[Anonymous No.22872222]

>>22872214
This lol. Atonality is outdated and stuck in early 20th century

[Anonymous No.22872232]

>>22871780
I highly doubt the truth of this romanticized view of artistic creation. The antagonism between composers and the patronage system was huge in Mozart's - Beethoven's time.

[Anonymous No.22872277]

>>22871791
>Mahler really really wants to believe in that
Can (((they))) really not comprehend a person actually believing in the resurrection?

[Anonymous No.22872280]

Decline of the West by Oswald Spengler

[Anonymous No.22872294]

Anime music gives me more joy than contemporary classical. Is band music like classical but happy and more anime?
Or is it also postmodern and minimalistic nowadays?

[Anonymous No.22872678]

>>22872294
Shut the fuck up, retard.

[Anonymous No.22872681]

>>22872232
I don't think the notion that composers (at least the great ones) mostly did what they wanted to is romantic at all.

[Anonymous No.22872718]

>>22870967
lemme give you the spark notes version:
>the jews
that's why

[Anonymous No.22872739]

>>22872718
It's always funny to me that white people are some kind of perfect, angelic beings that can do no wrong for you people

[Anonymous No.22872781]

E-excuse me? Is metal and jazz okay :(