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/lit/ - Literature


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22852805 No.22852805 [Reply] [Original]

Post some of your favorite history books.

>> No.22852810
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22852810

>>22852805

>> No.22852818
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22852818

>>22852805

>> No.22852821

>>22852805
Where to start with /history/? Not really interested in a specific time period, but something interesting that will keep me hooked, like a starting a point. Like Greek, Roman, Medieval times, Chinese, American, French, Spanish, etc.

>> No.22852845

>>22852821
The First Crusade by Thomas Asbridge
Napoleon A Life/The Great by Andrew Roberts
Frederick the Great: King of Prussia by Tim Blanning
Peter the Great by Robert K. Massie
Caesar by Adrian Goldsworthy
Robin Lane Fox by Robin Lane Fox
SPQR by Mary Beard
Iron and Blood by Peter H. Wilson
The Holy Roman Empire by Peter H. Wilson
A History of Venice by John Julius Norwich
The Normans in Sicily by John Julius Norwich
Russia's War by Richard Overy

>> No.22852849

>>22852845
Fuck I meant Alexander the Great by Robin Lane Fox

>> No.22852850

>>22852821
Start with the Greeks

>> No.22853074
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22853074

>>22852805
>Gordon Wood
Based, every book I've tried of his pertaining to American history has been interesting. This book is basically an intellectual history of the evolution of the ideas that were debated and thrown into the blender of the Constitutional Convention.

>> No.22853137
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>> No.22853141
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>>22852810
I know this is a joke but in my opinion fiction is more reflective of historical time periods than history books. Fiction shows what a society values and yearns for and works towards. History is written with an agenda..

>> No.22853344
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22853344

>>22852805
Primary source translations allowed?

>> No.22853368

>>22853141
This. Primary sources and fiction/art are good for getting a feel of the values, manners, and opinions of people from a certain time period, while historical chronicles/academic history is only good for getting exact facts (like names and dates) down. Academic historians are usually not that good at writing, and can sometimes be more of a chore to read than traffic accidents reporters.

>> No.22853380

Any rec on imperial china/japan? Or medieval europe. In english or french.

>> No.22853385

>>22853380
The Harvard series on Imperial China seems decent having read the first book in the series

>> No.22853879

>>22853368
>>22853141
history books are easy to pick up and talk about shit that actually really happened and are therefore more interesting and engaging than use le magic wand to put le ring in le volcano

>> No.22854399

The war of the world by Niall Ferguson is a good one.

>> No.22854475
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22854475

>> No.22854583
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22854583

any recs on books about native americans that doesn't suck their ass too much?

>> No.22854905

>>22854583
Comanches: The History of a People by T.R. Fehrenbach.

>> No.22854907

>>22854583
The Earth is Weeping by Peter Cozzens

>> No.22854971

>>22852805
>Of Plymouth Plantation (Bradford)
>Thomas Jefferson: An Intimate History (Brodie)
>A General History of the Pyrates (Defoe)
>The Fate of Empires (Glubb)
>The Days of the French Revolution (Hibbert)
>Passage Through Armageddon (Lincoln)
>The Early History of Rome (Livy)
>Theodore Roosevelt Trilogy (Morris)
>The Black Death (Nohl)
>Ivan the Terrible (Payne and Romanoff)
>Franco: A Personal and Political Biography (Payne and Palacios)
>The Twelve Caesars (Suetonius)
>Bitter Glory (Watt)
>Always with Honor (Wrangel)
>Medieval Russia's Epics, Chronicles, and Tales (Zenkovsky)

>> No.22854990
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22854990

>he hasn't read the original history book
Never gonna make it

>> No.22855084

>>22852818
Is it about meat waves?

>> No.22856427

>>22852805
where do i find these editions?

>> No.22856736

>>22853380
>Imperial China
Imperial Twilight
Autumn in the Heavenly Kingdom
Both by Stephen Platt, about the First Opium War and Taiping Rebellion respectively
>Japan
The Chrysanthemum and the Sword - Ruth Benedict
Not really history, more on anthropology, kind of oudated but foundational to modern Japanese cultural studies.
MITI and The Japanese Miracle - Chalmers Johnson
Economic history that talks about how Japan forged an institutional consensus that created high growth
>medieval europe
The Inheritance of Rome: Illuminating the Dark Ages 400-1000 - Chris Wickham
Survey of the early medieval period that challenges a lot of popular conceptions of the period, including the idea that Rome really "fell", as the title suggests.

>> No.22856740
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22856740

>> No.22856745

>>22852845
Pop-his tier

>> No.22856747

>>22852821
If you want a general survey of World History, The Penguin History of the World by J.M. Roberts is a good one-volume starting point.

>> No.22856756

>>22856745
Yep
I love popular history

>> No.22856790
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22856790

>>22854583

>> No.22857372
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22857372

All you need 2bh.

>> No.22857380

>>22856747
nta but I've been looking for a single volume entry level overview like this for a while, so thank you

>> No.22857381

>>22857380
There is also Europe by Norman Davies

>> No.22857394
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22857394

>> No.22857400

>>22854990
Herodotus sucked compared to all the other Greek historians.

>> No.22857732
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>> No.22857740
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22857740

This book made me get an interest in African history and politics, particularly Cold War.
Cold War Africa is really interesting.

>> No.22857805

>>22857400
Filtered
>"b-but he gets so much wrong"
>H-daddy proven right about the big tower in Babylon
>the Egyptian bull cult
>construction method for the pyramids
>gold digging ant is just a mistranslation of marmot
Best Greek historian by far, covered alot, got alot right. Better than thucydides. Better than xenophon.

>> No.22857817

>>22856740
Damn my homie hoppe has a history book?

>> No.22857846

>>22853879
Just like my Wikipedia!

>> No.22857853

>>22857817
Yeah, and he cooks. Don't forget to read it for free :)
https://mises.org/library/short-history-man-progress-and-decline

>> No.22857857

>>22857805
>better than Xenophon
Yeah, I'll give you that.
>better than Thucydides
Nah. Might just be a matter of personal taste, but Thucydides writes with far more pathos. Reading between the lines, you can see a man who is a scorned lover of his native Athens.

>> No.22857891
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>>22857805
I don't care about le getting things wrong he's just not as interesting as other writers. Thucydides writes on a topic which is far more interesting and focused, it's far more human and better written. Xenophon may not be an excellent writer but he did get the human part of it down and again, he has a focus. Herodotus is at his best when he has something to focus on, be it Egypt, Scythians or the Persian War, he's at his worst in the hole of digressions he makes for himself.

>> No.22857904

>>22857372
>Europeans colonized the world because of incidental factors that they had no control over
perfect so Euros and those of Euro descent can be absolved of any guilt related to the above events, yes?

>> No.22857906

>>22857372
This one book makes historians of multiple different disciplines seethe frothing at the mouth because of how much a disaster it is and how popular it is

>> No.22858123

>>22857857
>>22857891
Herodotus does indeed go off on tangents. But his work is different because, he covers many more years and places than other historians.

He is unique vs the others. His work seems more like a common man's history than an academics. For that I prefer him

>> No.22858351
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22858351

Any other authors like Marshall McLuhan

>> No.22859047
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22859047

>>22852805
I'm having a blast reading Dan Jones's crusaders
Any book recommendations about the history of the ancient world? I want to get into Sumerian history but I haven't found an adequate author.

>> No.22859104

>>22852805
This is a kino set. Anyone who sets out to read all four of these will be better for it. Howe and Wood especially are great.

>> No.22859299

>>22858351
what the fuck is this supposed to convey?

technology is le bad because you won't imagine what the author's feeling?

>> No.22859316

>>22857400
nah you did

>> No.22859345
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22859345

>> No.22859361

>>22859104
where can I buy it in that particular edition with the matching dust jackets?

>> No.22859407

>>22859345
Excellent read

>> No.22859472

>>22859299
the person is more amazed by the performance of his hifi set, than the brilliance of the composer and his music

>> No.22859508

>>22859047
Age of Agade for the Akkadians.

>> No.22859653

>>22859508
Many thanks

>> No.22859660
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22859660

>> No.22859785
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>>22852805
>>22859104
reading picrel currently. it really is a good series

>> No.22859798

>>22853141
Sorry little bro you don't know what you're talking about lol
Read a few cultural history books and you'll get a much better grasp of the times than reading something like Dickens or the Aeneid

>> No.22859822

Does anyone have any recs on Pope Urban II?

>> No.22860059
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>>22854399
>Niall Ferguson
Good writer.

>> No.22860081

>>22853137
Antony Beevor's history of D-Day is much better.

>> No.22860088

>>22854583
Gwynne's "Empire of the Summer Moon"

>> No.22860132

>>22852818
Glantz btfo:
https://www.academia.edu/11377782/Soviet_Operational_Art_Narratives_on_Manchuria_1945

>> No.22860159
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22860159

this guy

>> No.22860307
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>> No.22860368
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>> No.22860394
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>>22852805

>> No.22860412
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>> No.22860444
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>>22852805

>> No.22860502

>>22853344
Hey, I was just posting about this! I haven't actually started reading it in earnest yet but I'm very excited for it, I've read a couple of the Sumerian poems elsewhere already but more recently I've been reading a similar anthology of Akkadian lit.
What do you think of it? Good as poetry or merely of historical interest? I thought the Lugalbanda epics were pretty interesting and more stylistically colorful than I was expecting, but there's a very weird quality to the way things are told or phrased, you can certainly feel the immense distance.

>> No.22860630

>>22860502
Literally just finished it tonight, and I thought it was fantastic. It’s an excellent resource for both great poetry and for Sumerian history, albeit in a more cultural/religious/societal sense.
The verse itself is fucking gorgeous, especially in the Epics, Myths, Hymns and Laments, but in a very unique way; like you mentioned, you can tell that these works are extremely old and speak about a distant world that doesn’t make much immediate sense to us, and Jacobsen does an excellent job noting and explaining the most difficult of these sections. If you can work past that kind of momentary confusion (and the myriad of God/Goddess names/titles), you’re in for something engaging and immensely fascinating. Best of all is how human so much of it can be, and how similar our thoughts, priorities, fears and desires mirror those who lived and died over 4,000 years ago. Just mind-blowing stuff, and I loved every second of it.
Quick fun fact too: Sumerian Civilization, and by extension these very poems, are so unfathomably old that in several places it describes and highlights examples of now extinct Megafauna which at that time still roamed Southern Mesopotamia. Most common among these are the Aurochs, massive wild bovines and the progenitors of modern cattle that would become regionally extinct there over 3,000 years ago, not long at all after these poems were written. Also mentioned are the rarer Bison, who were closely associated with Death and the high mountains; these were almost certainly relict populations of Steppe Bison, who were once more widely distributed across West and Central Asia, and were nearing the end of their rapid decline since the end of the last Ice Age. In the poems they’re almost always seen as distant, dark, ghostly and intimidating creatures, an unintentional but still incredible parallel to what the Bison species itself was experiencing at the time. By the time Sumer itself was no more, those very West Asian Steppe Bison would be long extinct.

>> No.22860844

>>22852821
start at the beginning, that is, start with the sumerians and egyptians

>> No.22860858

>>22857372
its so fucking bad, im not even a chud, the hypothesis completely misses the monumental impact that european society and power dynamics as a whole had and why it made europe different and caused it to succeed where something like china didn't

>> No.22860873

>>22853137
Man, why can't they just make a uniform design? I don't get why some publishers do this. They even changed the font they used for the author's name. And that's a detail compared to the height variations of those horizontal straps of color.

inb4
>autism
Yeah, I know. Still annoying

>> No.22860883

>>22860858
you got lucky, that's literally it. any other race with the geographic advantage yuros had would have fared the same or better.

>> No.22861032
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>>22852805
Illiterate zoomer here :(
Can anyone recommend me some books on WWI and WWII? I dont know where to start. Thank you :)

>> No.22861094

>>22861032
When in doubt, start with the Greeks.

>> No.22861134
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22861134

>>22852805
Reading this atm

>> No.22861137

>>22852805
Any good historiography books?

>> No.22861139

any germans in this thread that can recommend good history books written in german? i don't want to read everything in english

>> No.22861160

>>22861032
Pandora's Box: a History of the First World War - Jörn Leonhard
The Second World War - Anthony Beevor

>> No.22861202
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>>22852805
These are very entertaining tbqh

>> No.22861280

>>22861139
Theodor Mommsen

>> No.22861291
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22861291

>>22861094
Well, I'm currently interested in both world wars.
>>22861160
Are both authors neutral enough? It would be better if the author didn't favour any side.

>> No.22861298

>>22861032
https://explorer.opensyllabus.org/results-list/titles?size=50&findWorks=the%20first%20world%20war

>> No.22861533
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22861533

>>22861032
My collection. Mostly WW1.
Tooze is a fag - everything else is pretty based.

>> No.22861615

>>22852821
Depends on your background. When it comes to history, the things that people find most interesting are things they feel a part of. You can start with something as simple and narrow as the history of your hometown.

>> No.22861631

Does anyone know a good text about the life and culture of aboriginal australians before European contact? Maybe in the cultural anthropology style of knud rasmussen or franz boas

>> No.22861694
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>> No.22861768

>>22854583
The Comanche Empire by Peka Hämäläinen.

>> No.22861891

>>22861533
Which Lenin book is better?

>> No.22861942

>>22861891
Sebestyen and then Gellately.
Of course these are not recommended for Commies.

>> No.22861966
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>> No.22862148
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>> No.22862172

>>22860630
That sounds wonderful anon, makes me more excited to get into it; and it’s really nice to see someone else enthusiastic about these things. Is there other similar stuff that you’d recommend?
About the megafauna, wow, that’s insane. I had wondered what they meant about “stags” because it definitely doesn’t seem like an area where any kind of deer would live today - but I just assumed it was some general term used for a word they couldn’t translate precisely.

>> No.22862194 [DELETED] 

>>22857857
Pathos is for faggots. Thucydides was a bitch.

>> No.22862276
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>>22861966
This one's also good by him

>> No.22862447

>>22860858
You didn’t read the book

>> No.22862641

>>22860883
Europeans have the smallest amount of land of all the races but you'll still blame it on land LMAO
You do know Asia and Africa have rivers, seas, coastline and arable land too right?

>> No.22862670

>>22862641
The crazy thing is that Africa and Asia also had thousands of years head start on agriculture compared to most of Europe. At the time of the Roman Republic's height 90% of Europe was densely forested and filled with bogs and marshland, meanwhile parts of Africa and Asia and been under continuous cultivation for over 1500 years. Places like Egypt, Mesopotamia, and even Northern Africa were so insanely productive for agriculture they were treated as the breadbaskets of the Roman Empire. Agricultural output in Europe was so pathetic that Egypt alone outproduced every single European province combined.

>> No.22862681

>>22862670
A great point. Same for Ancient Mesopotamia which had an agricultural output as good as modern day Canada with all of its technology and new techniques.

>> No.22862700

>>22862681
Then you also have trade. Asia is the origin of nearly every kind of luxury that was coveted in Europe. Spices, silk, rare gems, ivory, exotic dyes, etc. Africa also had many of these things, or could get them far easier than Europe could. All major trade routes to Europe passed through Mesopotamia or Egypt, thus they were able to make insane profits reselling it to the luxury-poor Europeans.

For the vast majority of human history, Asian societies were the wealthiest on earth. The balance only started to tip toward Europe with Rome, but even Rome was fairly poor until it captured the insanely wealthy eastern provinces like Egypt and Anatolia.

>> No.22862827

>>22862700
Yeah if the resources were switched they would complain that Europeans had all the resources

>> No.22862884

>>22861942
i don't fucking understand why Gellately is not one of the bestselling historians of our age, someone akin to ferguson, tooze, evans, hastings, etc.
His book on hitler, stalin and hitler is a masterpiece. I do not want to believe that is has to do with the fact that he has convincingly established that Lenin was as much a monster as Hitler and Stalin. I read his book when the paperback version was released and have recommended it more than 50 times. it is my go-to choice when someone wants to klnow more about those three cunts or communism/nazism.

>> No.22862924

Anons how do i even distinguish good historical books from bad ones?

>> No.22862945

>>22862924
Typically if it's obviously written with an agenda or by some shmuck that has a bunch of NY Times fags on the back cover praising it for something like "looking at history through a queer lens"
Especially if the author writes celebrity biographies or other modern books and branched into history for a single book,.
Doubly so lookout for these books if they were written in the last 10-15 years.
Case in point: the Da Vinci biography that Amazon won't stop trying to recommend you.

>> No.22862978

>>22862884
>he has convincingly established that Lenin was as much a monster as Hitler and Stalin.
Hitler was as far removed from a monster as humanly possible. The holocaust is a complete fiction and Hitler did NOT cause WW2. Jewish financiers did.

>> No.22862979
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22862979

i am a particular fan of this collection. i bought each one for 3 quid.

>> No.22863047

>>22862979
Looks really good

>> No.22863302 [SPOILER] 
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22863302

>>22861137
I recommend Hayden White. This is a good place to start.

>> No.22863377

>>22862979
no way you've read all of this

>> No.22863535

>>22852805
Recommend to me books that will clue me in to the methods/historiography/epistemology of history so that I can be at least a little capable of distinguishing if what I'm reading is bullshit or sound. I want to start reading history books but I want a base before doing so.

>> No.22863597
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>>22863377
i haven't. i've only read 4. currently reading The Age of Reform.

::

regarding Guns, Germ and Steel, forget this and go for the following options instead:

>> No.22863692

>>22862945
aye, i know this shit is anything but scientific, but a habit I have is reading the names of those who praise the book... or those who aren't mentioned.

another thing is where and to whom the author presents the book. for instance, recently I was about to purchase a book, the third of a series of (i think) four, when I saw that the author had launched the book at an event presented by... jacobin. lol. the sad thing is I have the first two.

>> No.22863722

>>22862978
Kys and go back to pol. Lit is a Libertarian board

>> No.22863771

>>22862641
>>22862670
>>22862681
>>22862700
>>22862827
You're lying, go back to r3ddit.

>> No.22863879

>>22863771
>redditor telling other people to go back

>> No.22864256

>>22852850
what book though? sticky says mythology by hamilton but it's not great and is literally talking about mythology instead of history

>> No.22864262

>>22862924
Pick an era or subject that piques your interest and cycle between reading primary and secondary sources, then it'll be easier to spot the hacks.

>> No.22864295

>>22863535
>books i agree
based
>books i disagree
cringe

simple as

>> No.22864469

>>22863302
Thanks. Who else?

>> No.22864610

Anyone got any recs for books on the war of the roses?

>> No.22864627
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22864627

>>22852805
How good are these?

Natures Mutiny - Philip Blom
Global Crisis - Geoffrey Parker

I want to know because I’m doing a deep dive on 17th century European history and historiography and want to know if I’m gonna be wasting my money or not.

>> No.22865330
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22865330

>Ford was a luddite because he opposed credit
>Planned obsolescence is good
>Uber will liberate humans from car ownership
The last half of this book sucked. Hated not liking it because I enjoyed other books by the same author.

>> No.22865415

>>22865330
I've noticed any 20th century company history always has some faggy neocon author that loves getting reamed by corporations and is all around shit at writing

>> No.22865450

>>22857400
yawn...

>> No.22865458
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22865458

>>22865415
The prose throughout the book was consistent which made his fellating of General Motors and Tesla weirder.

>> No.22865696
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22865696

Why is /his/ so bad? It's filled with sub-iq tourists.

>> No.22865746

>>22865696
/his/ is one of the most normalfaggot boards

>> No.22865885

where to start with the romans?

>> No.22866017

>>22865885
Livy, Polybius, Appian, Cassius Dio

>> No.22866059

>>22862924
>>22862945
Any book obsessed with “reinterpreting” older texts should give you pause. They aren’t necessarily all bad, and there are some historians still producing great stuff, but the current zeitgeist is to abandon all traditional interpretations for ones that favor “marginalized” voices.

This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but the problem is those marginalized people were often absent from the historical record and thus require a ton of extrapolation and theorizing in the name of ‘recovering’ those voices. This leads to some pretty extreme cases of anachronistic interpretation and viewing all of history through a modern political lens.

In general though, a good way to approach all history books is to read the introduction and conclusion carefully to figure out what the historian is trying to argue. Then you can test their evidence against that thesis. Modern history books are going to use a lot less primary sources, unfortunately, so I agree you should familiarize yourself with those as much as possible as you read.

>> No.22866083

>>22866059
I dont have an issue with Marxist historiography, I just dont take marx at face value is the thing.

>> No.22866092

>>22865330
I'm interested in automotive history since my grandfather was a mechanic but maybe you can help me steer clear of the bs

>> No.22866326

>>22863535
John Gadiss’ The Landscape of History is a great introduction into what you’re looking for.

>> No.22866330

>>22866083
Very few works today are true Marxist histories. Much more focused on race, gender, sexuality, etc. that many people call progressive or ‘woke.’
Most Marxist historians are straight white males which automatically disqualifies their opinion in academia unless they’re top level. Kek

>> No.22866355

>>22866330
matriarchy in action. only the top men matter.

>> No.22866798
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22866798

>> No.22866849

>>22860630
thanks for your enthusiasm, anon, you sold it so well I went to get a pdf right away

>> No.22866898

>>22860883
China had the advantage in all areas, resources, land, wealth, unified state, technology, population ect. Not Europe

>> No.22867487

>>22865885
Polybius is the easiest primary source and does the work as well as any modern work could, very clear and well done. Any biography of any Late Republican figure would do if you care for a primer on the Late Republic.

>> No.22867557

>>22866092
Do not have actual automotive recommendations because I am a wrenchlet. Does /o/ have a reading list?

>> No.22867715

>>22857372
>Diamond was born on September 10, 1937, in Boston, Massachusetts. Both of his parents were Ashkenazi Jewish.
Every single time.

>> No.22867828

>>22867715
Oy vey so subversive!

>> No.22867908
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22867908

>>22852805

>> No.22867929

>>22854583
look into volman his shit rocks

>> No.22867931

>>22857400
your bait sucks dick, kike

>> No.22867934

>>22859299
unironically a based position to take

>> No.22867942

>>22852821
regarding roman history, theres two routes to take, either roman historians, of historians of the romans, first camp start with livy then maybe tacitus, the latter camp gibbon and mommsen are the gold standard in writing well, they are dated but there are few historians who's writings delight one as gibbon

>> No.22868227

>>22862172
Glad I could help anon, Mesopotamian poetry, Sumerian especially, is some of the most humanizing and captivating stuff I’ve ever read, just hits you on a fundamental level that I find lacking in so much later literature. Perhaps that’s just because I get held up on how old it is, or how unique the verse sounds, but the effects linger nonetheless.
As far as additional recommendations are concerned, I’d definitely vouch for “Before the Muses” if you want more from Mesopotamia; it’s a 1000+ page behemoth that translates a multitude of works from the Akkadian language, which was predominantly used by the Near East’s other ancient powerhouses (those being Assyria, Babylon and of course Akkad itself). Don’t let it’s length deter you: from the hymns of Enheduanna, the Enuma Elish, Hammurabi law codes, Eastern Mediterranean diplomatic exchanges and Assyrian conquest stelae, it’s got it all, and it’s one hell of a ride. Outside of Mesopotamia, I’d recommend these primary source translations as well:
>Old Kingdom Egypt Pyramid Texts
>Teaching of Ptahhotep
>Tale of Sinuhe/Middle Kingdom Egyptian Literature
>State Archives of Assyria
>Landmark Hellenika/Anabasis
>The Library (Diodorus of Sicily)
>Records of the Grand Historian
>The Popol Vuh (New Prose Translation)
This honestly just scratches the surface, left out a lot of the more well known Greek/Roman stuff but that doesn’t make it any less indispensable. As far as primary sources are concerned, there’s just such an immense goldmine across the entire ancient world, and I hope you’ll enjoy soaking it in as much as I have.
>>22866849
That’s great to hear anon, I hope you enjoy it! Keep an eye out for the Lugal-E epic, Inanna’s Decent, Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta and the Lament for Ur; all of them are my personal favorites, but honestly I didn’t read a single poem in the entire collection I didn’t enjoy

>> No.22868432

>>22868227
Upon looking back at the pieces I've read, I think I do see more of what you're seeing - there are weird choices that are confusing or discordant, but there's a great abundance of beauty and sublimity, and the overarching narrative clearly means *something* important, even if that importance is obscure, and some of the main ideas do come through.
>Before the Muses
That's the one I'm reading now since I decided to check it out before Harps, I am reading other stuff as well and I haven't really got into the meat of it yet but there's a lot of interesting stuff there already. It's good to have your recommendation anyway though since it's obviously a big commitment to follow through on.
I've been into Greek and Chinese stuff for a little while now but I only recently even realized there were genuinely significant bodies of literature from Bronze Age cultures so I'm really enjoying discovering that whole world. Also just started reading A. Leo Oppenheim's Ancient Mesopotamia, which while obviously not a primary source gives insight on their literary world and seems to be written by an extremely passionate and authoritative scholar.
That's a great list anon, thank you. I am particularly interested in the Pyramid/Coffin Texts, and the Popol Vuh is one I'd forgotten about entirely but also seems like it could be fascinating, I know very little about new world cultures.

>> No.22868494

>>22864627
Nobody?

>> No.22868503

>>22868494
wanted to know this as well. maybe there some reading book references in some open coursewares.

>> No.22868767

>>22868503
>>22868494
Nobody gives a shit retarted nigger kys

>> No.22869009
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22869009

Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime

>> No.22869018
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22869018

>> No.22869502
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22869502

>> No.22869518

>>22860883
>geographic advantage
>WINTER
>meanwhile in perpetual summer Africa
BAHAHAHAHAHA
stfu fagbot

>> No.22869661

>>22865696
It's entirely because of the "& Humanities" part. People use that as an excuse to shitpost and spam bait threads to fling mud at each other. They need to create a religion board and ban any threads not explicitly related to history

>> No.22869861
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22869861

>> No.22870059

>>22869661
Religion IS history m’nigga

>> No.22870068

>>22868767
I’m much too self absorbed to do that, you on the other hand post endless threads about hating life and muh cope. You’ll be roping before I do.

>> No.22870543

>>22860307
Doug/ass?

>> No.22870720
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22870720

>>22852805

>> No.22871039

>>22870059
No Anon, posting pictures of the Virgin Mary being raped and calling everyone a kike is not history

>> No.22871085

>>22870059
There is a difference in making a thread about religion in history and making a thread saying 'WHY ARE X DENOMINATION/ RELIGION SO RETARDED???'

>> No.22871380

>>22871039
>>22871085
Jews rape kids

>> No.22871427
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22871427

>> No.22871453

>>22863722
He's right. Jewish financiers utilizing Anglo political force initiated WW1 and WW2. Edward Gray and the Milner Group were especially responsible for WW1. Go read Lord Milner's Second War by John P. Cafferky, and then start on Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley.

>> No.22871462

>>22871453
Wasn't Milner just some guy who inherited Cecil Rhodes fortune, schemed to united South Africa and later shilled for creating the modern commonwealth of nations? Was he somehow behind Germany and Russia's actions in 1914? Or is this just talking about the ultimate outcome with the Balfour declaration (the Palestine one)?

>> No.22871544

>>22871453
go back to /pol/ and kys retard

>> No.22871595

>>22871544
Triggered jew

>> No.22871601

>>22865885
I would only add Tacitus to what all the other anons have said. His pithy sentences are refreshing after reading Cicero desu

>> No.22871657
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22871657

>>22852821

>> No.22871843

>>22857400
It's hard to be so very wrong, and yet you managed it.

>> No.22872211

>>22871427
Despite the fact that this series is so influential and well-known it's way too difficult and expensive to get your hands on, especially here in Europe.

>> No.22872215

>>22871601
Tacitus wrote a lot of fiction and anti-Roman propaganda
He was essentially a libtard xenophile of his day

>> No.22872281

>>22867931
>YOU'RE A JEW IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY BORING ASS TANGENTS

>> No.22872728
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22872728

>>22854907
Excellent recommendation, anon. This is my favorite book on the American Indian Wars.
>>22860088
Another excellent read. Comanches are always a good starting place because they were metal as hell.

I just finished Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides. It follows the life of Kit Carson, but goes into a ton of detail about the Navajos and some about the Utes and Mescalaro Apache. Very enjoyable read.

>> No.22872745

>>22867929
Any specific starting point with Vollman? 19th century American Indian wars are my favorite thing to sperg on.

>> No.22872773

>>22861966
This looks neat

>> No.22872905

What history books did we get for Christmas?

>> No.22872997
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22872997

>>22864256
Xenophon's Anabasis or The Persian Expedition

>> No.22873019
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22873019

>>22852805

>> No.22873176

>>22872728
I was found that book while looking up a mastodon song, is it good? I really like american history

>> No.22873719
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22873719

The Last Battle

>> No.22874038

>>22873176
I really enjoyed it. The book touches on a ton of significant historical events from the Mexican War to the first battle of Adobe Walls (the bugler always kills me) just because of Carson's innate ability to stumble into major historical events and shape them because of his raw skill and talent. Dude was an actual legend. The book covers a lot about the Navajo under Narbona which I feel like other Native American books kind of gloss over in favor of the Apache and Comanche in the area just because they were nuts.

>> No.22874458

>>22852821
Cold War history is nice because it has a clear arc from beginning to end, with plenty of coverage, both contemporary and retrospective.
A good introduction is "The Cold War: A World History" by Odd Arne Westad.

>> No.22874545

>>22872215
>anti-Roman propaganda
Somewhat fair, though it's worth noting that Tacitus was shaped politically in his youth by the pretty authoritarian Flavian dynasty. This was around the point when people began clueing on that the emperor wasn't just princeps senatus but essentially monarchical.
>libtard
No, if anything he was against the hedonism and decadence of the governing classes of the late Principate, and wanted a return to a time when the Senate was an honorable institution.
>xenophile
Agricola and Germania do humanize the barbarians, but one never gets the impression that Tacitus was sympathetic with anyone but the Roman side (though Agricola was probably a fluff piece).

>> No.22874566

>>22871453
It’s a real shame people look at us as the goodest goys ever

>> No.22874567

I'm really enjoying Killer Angels, historical fictional about the Battle of Gettysburg

>> No.22874573

>>22874545
>pretty authoritarian Flavian dynasty
Delusional
>the emperor wasn't just princeps senatus but essentially monarchical.
Delusional

>> No.22874575

>>22871039
No one does that, retard

>>22871085
True but almost all civilizations were built on the canvas of religion. Profane law and culture are intertwined with it.

>> No.22874712
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22874712

>>22852805
>The Glorious Cause
>Battle Cry of Freedom
Are these books worth reading? I've seen them recommended here a few times, but I don't enjoy reading overly dry history.

>> No.22874773
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22874773

>>22852805
I'm about halfway through pic related. It's an entertaining, very gossipy look at the court of the tsars, full of fascinating facts. For example the first tsars wore a Mongol hat as a crown lol, and Russian women used to blacken their teeth for beauty purposes. Smoking was illegal at one point even though vodka use was rampant. Russia is a strange place and always has been. Reformers have been trying to westernize the country since at least Peter the Great (and mostly failing). Its history as part of Tartary really handicapped it. Also Montefiore raises the footnote to a high artform here.

>> No.22875068

>>22874773
I also have this book, and it is pretty great, kind of reminds me a bit of Suetonius' Twelve Caesars, in a good way. I do sometimes wonder if Montefiore plays up certain things a bit in a way to make it more compelling, but everything I've read so far in other literature shows the Romanovs really did have lives as dramatic as narrated

>> No.22875654
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22875654

>> No.22875674
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22875674

got this for Christmas, a subject I'm highly curious about

>> No.22876068

>>22874712
Battle Cry of Freedom is 100% worth reading.
The Glorious Cause is not, Middlekauff's grasp of the British during the Revolutionary war is hilariously inadequate, and a lot of his sources were bad and outdated even by the time he wrote it in the late 70s - it's borderline American propaganda.

>> No.22876149
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22876149

>>22852805
this book is awesome. it's just story after story about crazy preachers telling everyone that their god or everyone is God and that's why they shouldn't have to work. it really hammers home just why heretics had to be killed in horrific ways - they just kept telling everyone to stop working and "God would provide". it happened dozens of times

>> No.22876639
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22876639

Been enjoying this one quite a lot. The early modern period is pretty underrated and I have an appetite for more material on The Great Divergence and the time period generally.

>> No.22876653

>>22854971
Based and actually literary history. Missing Gibbon's Rome and a handful of the like though.

>> No.22877672

do not let this thread die, the recs are too good

>> No.22877825

just let this thread die, too many antisemitism

>> No.22878363

>>22869502
Good one, anon. Do you know of any more along these (medieval) lines?

>> No.22878472

The more books about history you read the less seriously you start to take history books. It didn't become propagandistic, it was always propaganda.

>> No.22878846

>>22878472
Then you don't belong here. Feel free to migrate to:
>>>/pol/
>>>/x/
>>>/lgbt/

>> No.22878856

>>22878472
To me, that's not the bad part. The bad part is that people think it's somehow better to read a fictionalized account of what "happened" than something completely made-up.

>> No.22879740

>>22871427
I never knew Gibbon was a fatass. Disgusting

>> No.22879745
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22879745

>>22852805

>> No.22879747

>>22879745
I’ve got that on my reading list. Please please tel me that’s a bilingual edition or something’s

>> No.22879749
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22879749

>>22879747
Yeah

>> No.22879823

any books about the early christian ministry/the apostolic age. i want a big ass exhaustive tome about the lives and deaths of all the apostles

>> No.22879902

>>22878472
>>22878856
Cringe

>> No.22879955

>>22878472
name 10 last history books you read

>> No.22879958

>>22878472
kys

>> No.22880167

>>22871427
Gibbon...easy on the crumpets

>> No.22880176

>>22872211
The Everyman boxsets are fairly easy to get in Bongland, just order them directly off Amazon UK

>> No.22880187

>>22879745
Thinking of picking up the Brewitt-Taylor translation, that five volume set looks pretty sweet though.

>> No.22880200

What have you learned this year?

>> No.22880206

>>22880187
Brewitt-Taylor is bad, get Moss Roberts. You can get a set for him too.

>> No.22880233

>>22880167
He subsisted entirely on cheese and wine.

>> No.22880303

>>22879749
Holy fuuuuuck. Chinese is so condensed. Fucking gorgeous.

>> No.22880879

>>22861134
Actually just got this. Haven’t started it. What do you think? I had a hard time finding much of anything good on the conflict.

>> No.22881021

>>22861032
>>22861533
For WW1 I have
>Eric Dorn Brose- A History of the Great War
>Margaret Macmillan - War that ended Peace
>David Reynolds - The Long Shadow

>> No.22881049
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22881049

>>22852805

>> No.22881071

this may be a dumb question but any good books about what samurai or ninja were actually like?

>> No.22881080

>>22881049
>the only good answer in the thread
Sad

>> No.22881086

>>22857372
this is widely regarded as an embarrassment and a fraud. I don't even think the author still agrees with his own theories elucidated in it.

>> No.22881800
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22881800

can I just read these and be done with pre modernity for life?

>> No.22881909

>>22881800
wtf why is it all about France?

>> No.22882471
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22882471

>>22879823
>i want a big ass exhaustive tome about the lives and deaths of all the apostles
Foxe's Book of Martyrs

>> No.22882483

>>22880879
Oh there's plenty. Check out Hugh-Trevor Ropers stuff if you can, and if you're not opposed to historical climatology, Geoffrey Parker and Philip Blom

>> No.22882495

>>22882483
Btw its pretty damn good, not fond of the jarring prose though

>> No.22882586

>>22881909
Because the Durants started the project as a history of the French Revolution and felt they needed to explain things from before the Revolution to set the stage, and this created a long line of "But before that...". They ended up deciding to just do a general history instead, but the overall work does have a clear francophilic touch.

>> No.22882607

>>22856745
ok lets see your list fag

>> No.22882610
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22882610

>>22878363
>Do you know of any more along these (medieval) lines?
Sadly, I do not. The closest Medieval themed book would be this one on Chivalry by Léon Gautier.

>> No.22882689

>>22861139
Rainer Zitelmann

>> No.22882715

>>22879740
Anorexic French hands typed this post

>> No.22883157
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22883157

Not the best but a really fun one I read recently

>> No.22883944

>>22852805
Books on the late Bronze Age collapse? I know Eric Cline has one.

>> No.22884042

>>22881800
If you want a bland and poor overview sure. Just get a primer for an era you're interested in instead of Durant, he isn't really good at all when it comes to antiquity.

>> No.22884502

Well for whatever reason I've leaned extremely hard into the American Civil War this year and for 2024 I'm interested in going both forward in time and back in time. Can you all recommend books / movies / documentaries on: The American Revolution, The Indian Wars, and on the American Westward Expansion?

>> No.22885966

Any recommendations for good books on Swedish history?

>> No.22886738
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22886738

>>22885966

>> No.22886908

>>22852818
Glantz is okay, but those arrows are pointing the wrong way for manchuria son.

>> No.22886927

>>22881800
That's badly written fiction, mate.

>> No.22886986

>>22875654
Kino

>> No.22887228

>>22876068
Do you have some examples of the inadequacies of The Glorious Cause? I thought it was a wonderful read and it didn't come across as propaganda to me, but I wouldn't know anything about its sources.

>> No.22887240

>>22852805
Anyone read Maurice Collis, Huizinga, or Prescott? Any opinions would be appreciated

>> No.22887274

>>22887228
Given that I've just read a review that compares Tuchman favourably to Middlekauf… http://rgr-cyt.org/2017/11/review-of-the-glorious-cause/

I mean I can't be bothered chasing up that bloke's assertions, but slab of text histories that are worshipful of their subject and aren't advancing an argument about source, determinancy, identity, exegesis, causation, or possible acts tend to be weak as piss hagiographies, and just secondary school textbooks with more names and words.

>> No.22887353

>>22853137
Forgot Sun and Steel

>> No.22887366

>>22854990
Best translation/edition?

>> No.22887572

Kotkin's books about Stalin and Soviet Union seem great but I take it with a grain of salt due to him being on the mind numbingly base NAFO line during Ukraine war, which clearly shows he has a paid agenda.

Beevor on the other hand devoted his entire career to falsify Eastern Front.

>> No.22887630

>>22887572
Overy's _Russia's War_ was a decent summary to act as a textbook for a 2nd year course at the time of its publication.

>> No.22887879

>>22861280
thanks
>>22882689
lol, lmao even

>> No.22887897

>>22887366
The Landmark and thank me later

>> No.22888350

>>22887572
>which clearly shows he has a paid agenda.
Elaborate

>> No.22888373

>>22888350
Sorosz scholar

>> No.22889080
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22889080

>>22887572
>which clearly shows he has a paid agenda.
Russia is shit, so it is pretty natural for smart people to support Ukraine.

>> No.22889424

>>22881086
He doesn't even have a history degree

>> No.22889458

>>22884502
Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in by David Hackett Fischer. More of a socio-political survey than a proper history. Starting to get overpraised, but def good.

American Republics: A Continental History of the United States, 1783-1850 by Alan Taylor. A decent, sweeping survey. Polemical at times. Best not read in isolation, but useful.

Autumn of the Black Snake by William Hogeland. The story of the nigh-forgotten Northwest Indian War, including St. Clair's defeat which was the worst American military defeat in its history. Less polemic than American Republics, even if Hogeland takes a much more skeptical view of the Founding Fathers than Taylor. I got the vibe that Hogeland is more a socialist where Taylor is a shitlib, so that makes sense. Hogeland wouldn't see one set of money-grubbing landowners as especially heinous, unlike Taylor who hews more to performative liberalism.

The Politicos, 1865-1896 by Matthew Josephson. A pure Marxist history of Gilded Age party politics, with no interest in anything but class and capital. Takes the driest period of American expansion and politics and makes it very readable. Provides vital economic context for the tail end of Westward Expansion, also digs into the Spoils System.

WASPS: The Splendors and Miseries of an American Aristocracy Hardcover by Michael Knox Beran. The book is anchored in the WASP implosion of the 1960s, but it covers a period all the way back to the American Revolution. A fair exploration of the "dark matter" animating (northern) U.S. history and politics. I don't think Beran at all intended it, but I walked away from this book redpilled, thinking "Nixon was right about the Eastern Establishment."

>> No.22889480

>>22889458
The first one I own

>> No.22889496

>>22887572
How is Pipes, Figes and McMeeken?

>> No.22889534

>>22866798
>>22867908
>>22869009
>>22869861
>>22874773
>>22882610
thanks anons, I added these to the order list

>> No.22889631

>>22889496
Figes is a falsifier. Pipes is a historian but on the far right of the spectrum. You should try S Fitzpatrick on party structure, V Andrle on proletarian responses during the industrialisation.

Go read Nove/ Millar, and Wheatcroft and Tauger too.

>> No.22890292

>>22887274
>but slab of text histories that are worshipful of their subject and aren't advancing an argument about source, determinancy, identity, exegesis, causation, or possible acts tend to be weak as piss hagiographies, and just secondary school textbooks with more names and words.
Cringe take

>> No.22890348

>>22889458
nice thanks a lot

>> No.22890386

>>22890348
>>22889458
another question - what book(s) will get me from the Early Beginnings of American up to and including the Revolutionary War?

>> No.22890469
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22890469

>>22887366
>>22887897
Greek

>> No.22890483

>>22890292
>Cringe take
I see you like nationalist fantasy novels. I recommend you just ejaculate inside War & Peace a couple of times.

>> No.22890497

>>22890386
>what book(s) will get me from the Early Beginnings of American up to and including the Revolutionary War
S Federici (2004) Caliban and the Witch
CLR James (1938) Black Jacobins: Toussaint L'Ouverture and the San Domingo Revolution

To bridge the gap try PH Wood 1974 Black Majority: Negroes in Colonial South Carolina from 1670 through the Stono Rebellion.

>> No.22890597

>>22853380
Cambridge History of China is great, although very long.
Imperial China: 900-1800 (Fredrick W. Mote)
1587: A Year of No Significance
Early Chinese Civilization: Reflections On How It Became Chinese (essay)
The Pattern of the Chinese Past
The Retreat of the Elephants: An Environmental History of China
The Confucian-Legalist State: A New Theory of Chinese History

>> No.22890613
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22890613

>>22890497

>> No.22890649

>>22852805

>> No.22890828

>>22890483
>nooooo you have to advance a heckin valid queer thesis you can't just record history in a book!!!!

>> No.22891252
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22891252

>> No.22891340

>>22890386
To better under the American Revolution, some coverage of the English Civil War is useful because it -- especially Cromwell -- loomed in the imaginations of the Founding Fathers as how everything might spin out of control. It informed a lot of their decisions, like Washington deciding not to support a coup attempt.

"The World Turned Upside Down: Radical Ideas During the English Revolution" is a decent enough overview of the political side of things.

>> No.22891359

>>22887240
Huizinga is good on the middle ages, albeit with a highly aesthetic approach, similar to John Ruskin, or Winckelmann on art.

Its a good idea to balance him out with someone drier, and more focused, like Christopher Dyer.

>> No.22891514

>>22891252
Shit. This dude just has a stick up his ass over runciman being popular

>> No.22891544

>>22889631
Andrle I couldn’t find, but I did find Fitzpatrick

>> No.22891551

>>22891340
I am actually reading that, nice mention

>> No.22891771

>>22852805
Any recommendations for Anglo-Saxon history? Trying to explore it and flesh out my interests for post-grad work.

>> No.22891829
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22891829

>>22891771

>> No.22891846

>>22891829
:(

>> No.22892379

>>22891771
"The Anglo-Saxons: A History of the Beginnings of England: 400 – 1066" by Marc Morris (you can try it as an audiobook).

"Oxford History of England: Volume II: Anglo-Saxon England, c550–1087" by Frank Stenton

>> No.22892512

>>22891544
Andrew Gordon Vladimir Andrle, Workers in Stalin's Russia

>> No.22892517

>>22890828
>you can't just record history
I see you've understood that all exegesis implies eisegetic understandings.

>> No.22892521

>>22891514
Explain
What positions does he take and where do you think he over-corrects Runciman?

>> No.22893121
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22893121

The Oregon Trail

>> No.22893127

Any good books in English on the history of Brazil.
Looking for both a general over view, and, more specifically, anything to do with the dictatorship years.

>> No.22893246

>>22892512
Nope

>> No.22893249

>>22891829
Jewish demoralization psyop

>> No.22893394

>>22863597
Rise of the west is such a good read

>> No.22894070
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22894070

>>22889458
>WASPS: The Splendors and Miseries of an American Aristocracy
Thank you for this recommendation. I'm really interested in the WASP ethnicity and looking for more books that explore it.

Does anyone else have any recommendations on WASPs and WASP culture in the United States from a positive pro-WASP perspective? I've read Way of the WASP by Brookhiser. I've heard of The Protestant Establishment by Baltzell and I do intend to read it eventually but he unfortunately spends a part of the book discussing how WASPs need to integrate Jews and be more like Jews.

Any recs?

>> No.22894442

>>22894070
>Does anyone else have any recommendations on WASPs and WASP culture in the United States
Albion's Seed

>> No.22894477
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22894477

>>22852805
Thomas Morton's New English Canaan from 1637. Early American, colonial history.
https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/54162/pg54162-images.html

>> No.22894502
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22894502

Can you guys recommend me the best French pop history

>> No.22894568

>>22894502
John Julius Norwich

>> No.22894574

>>22894568
He was writing in English though

>> No.22894581
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22894581

>>22887366
Aubrey de Sélincourt's is still my personal favorite.

>> No.22894593

>>22860088
Lol I listened to the audiobook of this because of Shane Gillis. It was really good.

>> No.22894641

>>22852805
Hey OP are these actually interesting to read? I do love me some American Revolution.

>> No.22894647

>>22852845
>Robin Lane Fox by Robin Lane Fox
Based narcissistic historian

>> No.22894963

>>22894641
Yes they are worth reading. In my opinion The Glorious Cause and Battle Cry of Freedom aren't the absolute best overviews ever written about the the American Revolution and Civil War, respectively, but they are well written and interesting. I could do some research and post recommendations if you want.

>> No.22895003

>>22894963
>I could do some research and post recommendations if you want.
I appreciate that but don't worry about it bro. I'm already backed up with my backlog but I'll add the OP books to the list.

>> No.22895147
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22895147

>>22861032
>WWII
These.

>> No.22895192

Any Chinese history suggestions?
Already read
>China's Cosmopolitan Empire - The Tang Dynasty
>The Search for Modern China
>China Between Empires
>The Early Chinese Empires
>The Sinister Way
Open to basically anything pre-communism.

>> No.22895264

>>22895192
just read the cambridge histories

>> No.22895292
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22895292

>>22884502
>The Indian Wars
Read some Robert Utley.

>> No.22895634

>>22878472
Nigger

>> No.22895752
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22895752

I got this in a charity shop 2 years ago, it's really good

>> No.22895998

>>22878472
That’s because the books you read in school were inherently Jewish.