/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22834651]

I just went to a bookstore and the zoomer running the store was a fellow Carlyle fan and we commiserated about not being able to find early editions of some of his works. The kids are alright and also to my immense surprise Carlyle seems to be in demand again. I'm feeling whitepilled.

[Anonymous No.22834655]

Why would Carlyle be out of fashion?

[Anonymous No.22834657]

>>22834651
>and we commiserated about
>commiserated about
You write like a retarded faggot.

[Anonymous No.22834659]

>>22834655
I dunno, have you heard of him being taught anywhere for example? I haven't.

[Anonymous No.22834664]

>>22834651
you should've whipped a darkie together
oh wait, you'd get knocked clean out with your skinny arms

[Anonymous No.22834667]

>>22834651
Sorry ZoomZoom, they’re taken.

[Anonymous No.22834685]

>>22834651
Cool based. Also a zoomer Carlyle appreciator here.
Is this store somewhere in England? I can't think of Carlyle fans being elsewhere unless they got introduced through Moldbug.

[Anonymous No.22834688]

>>22834685
>Moldbug
Go back

[Anonymous No.22834691]

>>22834685
Nope, it's not in England or even an anglo country, that's the best part.

[Anonymous No.22834711]

>>22834655
Nobody ever heard of him until Moldbug, the internet right’s favorite pseud, started mentioning him a few years back. Now all the alt-right YouTubers like Academic Agent et al. sing his praises and so their legion of pseuds is also interested.

And before anyone attacks me, I think Carlyle was a remarkable writer. I just think this army of pseuds is obnoxious and I dislike it when writers I like become popular because of eCelebs because that means I don’t get to gatekeep them or endorse them to sound smart anymore.

[Anonymous No.22834723]

>>22834657
Is the preposition wrong or is it about his word choice?
t. ESL

[Anonymous No.22834725]

>>22834688
I didn't say I liked Moldbug or that he was good. I haven't even read Moldbug, I'm just aware he's the reason Carlyle is more popular now in US.

[Anonymous No.22834728]

>>22834723
It's a perfectly normal thing to say if you're literate, the guy you're responding to is just a retarded mutt
t. EFL

[Anonymous No.22834735]

>>22834659
>>22834685
>>22834711
Are you all American? That might explain the difference because going through life without hearing about Carlyle or quoting him or repeating things he made up about the French Revolution would be almost impossible here. It'd be like not knowing Burke quotes by osmosis.

[Anonymous No.22834736]

>>22834655
He has been out of style since World War 2 along with Ruskin since the Nazis liked the. This is common knowledge

[Anonymous No.22834740]

>>22834736
Neither Carlyle or Ruskin are out of favour because of WWII. Ruskin especially, because more people definitely care about Turner than the war in any group that hates Nazis.

[Anonymous No.22834743]

>>22834735
Stop pretending people read Carlyle at English universities. We all know they don’t.

[Anonymous No.22834745]

>>22834735
And we all know he’s verboten in Germany as well.

>>22834740
Ruskin wasn’t. Carlyle was.

[Anonymous No.22834747]

>>22834655
All reactionaries are by choice.

[Anonymous No.22834752]

>>22834743
>At university
Okay that's impossible to not do if you're in most of the liberal arts, because you're going to get told postmodernism definitely has a precursor in Carlyle to avoid the Irish did it first problems. You're going to have to come up against him in politics. And most of his work is considered teenager level, which is why so many people know the French Revolution bits.

[Anonymous No.22834759]

>itt moldbug fans find out sekrit club just basic knowledge
>>22834745
lol what for making German puns?

[Anonymous No.22834764]

>>22834655
Besides being a reactionary and exalting dictators, traditionalism, the Puritans, guns, heroes, and being identified as the “first national socialist” by the Nazi Party, he is somewhat difficult to read and didn’t write obscure German philosophy.

[Anonymous No.22834768]

>>22834752
I know for a fact that’s just bullshit. There are students in programmes in the UK that have never heard of the guy.

[Anonymous No.22834771]

>>22834764
He writes very funny books, anon. People don't remember the knitting bit or create postmodernism off his back because leftists hate him. He's a fucking Buddhist entry drug for half of them

[Anonymous No.22834781]

>>22834768
Which course are they failing?

[Anonymous No.22834793]

>>22834781
Failing? None. Passing? English.

[Anonymous No.22834794]

>>22834793
Lol how? Is it limited to before the Victorian age?

[Anonymous No.22834795]

>>22834728
You commiserate “over” — not “about,” you ESL golem.

[Anonymous No.22834798]

>>22834795
Fairly certain, they're both correct even if the latter is somewhat clunky.

[Anonymous No.22834799]

>>22834651
>>22834728
>>22834795
OP is a retard for misusing the verb commiserate because he’s a retarded ESL. The two retards contradicting each other are similarly retarded ESLs because you “commiserate with” — not “about” or “over.”

[Anonymous No.22834807]

>>22834740
Both Ruskin and Carlyle were anti-liberal and anti-capitalist while not fitting anywhere on the modern political spectrum. They were old-fashioned Anglo conservatives who saw that modernity was quite literally destroying the world with its inequalities and environmental pollution. They directly influenced early socialist movements and welfare initiatives in governments. Because of this, they’re seen as reactionary proto-fascists and have been largely ignored since it became known that the Nazis admired them, particularly Carlyle who was aggressively racist. Their obscurity today is blatant academic suppression. Carlyle was one of the dominant intellectual figures of the 19th century and even his opponents anticipated his critiques because he was so formidable. Countries like India would not exist without Ruskin's influence on Gandhi and all welfare policies in modern states are indebted to Carlyle. Even Engels adored him. Yet the literary establishment has the audacity to denounce both of these men and pretend as if they have nothing important to say anymore (Ruskin to a lesser extent, but Carlyle majorly so)

[Anonymous No.22834836]

>>22834794
No, they just don’t care about people like him dude. If you don’t believe me go do some research on the faculty at notable programs and look at the literature they’re reading and writing about. It’s not Carlyle. I don’t know where you got this idea that these people are reading some canon which includes guys like him. They’re not and it doesn’t.

[Anonymous No.22834860]

>>22834807
You needed to work Burke into this for me to believe you even watch British TV with jokes about the Tories in it.
>>22834836
This would make slightly more sense in that not many really deeply care about Dryden or Byron, but an English course not mentioning them is so dubious, i think the presumed obscurity of Carlyle of OP is entirely
>>22834759
>>itt moldbug fans find out sekrit club just basic knowledge

[Anonymous No.22834863]

>>22834735
>>22834752
>>22834781
Wtf is this pretentious larp? I'm English, recently studied English at Oxford which is the one of the two places in England where you might expect this to be true. Yes, I read him for uni because I wanted to but it's absolutely not required, and of course the vast majority of the English students, who were mostly leftist girls not especially interested in the canon or difficult or controversial works from it, would not have read him. Perhaps they are more likely to have encountered his name but that's it. I know he was once considered a good writer to read as a teenager but I think that time is passed, even rarer for anyone to attempt to tackle his long and difficult French Revolution. Actually reading him is of course rare just as anyone reading literature seriously is, why are you larping as though you only know about people within a hyper-elitist bubble?

[Anonymous No.22834892]

>>22834863
So you're going with Carlyle could not have been in QI or mentioned in HIGNFY or indeed, wouldn't wind up in any Victorian to Edwardian era detective setting? It's not a pretense, and the fact you're not going after the anon saying he was persona non gratia after the war is bizarre if you're trying to pick the posts to cool story bro. Reading Carlyle didn't make you special at all, and the French Revolution is beloved because it's a first person action adventure. In case you missed the English market for that genre, I'm sure even the American anons could give you some names

[Anonymous No.22834896]

>>22834655
For the same reason Carl Schmitt is out of fashion. Too dangerous to let too many people read an alternative political vision outside of Lockean libtardism.

[Anonymous No.22834903]

>>22834745
Thomas Carlyle was a Germanophile though, and the Germans liked him too.

[Anonymous No.22834913]

>>22834685
>>22834711
Can you retards not bring up moldybug in every Carlyle thread? I think Jonathan Bowden would at least be just as influential for popularising Carlyle in contemporary right spheres, but anyone with a GENUINE education has always known who Carlyle is and we don't need to ascribe any reference to him to the influence of e-celebs.

[Anonymous No.22834916]

>>22834913
>We don't need to say where we came from
Because it looks bad?

[Anonymous No.22834918]

>>22834896
Schmitt is literally not out of fashion, you fucking retard. Laclau and Mouffe re-territorialized (to use the misused deluezian term hackademics are wont to do) Schmitt in the early 80s and he has been examined, appropriated, and used by leftists since then. Literally cannot read a book about Agamben without the writer talking about Schmitt

[Anonymous No.22834919]

>>22834892
>first person action adventure
It's not even first person. Also LOL at referring to art by genres titles like 'action adventure'.

[Anonymous No.22834922]

>>22834916
Yes, by genuinely mentioning the overweight dyel jew, Moldbug, you reveal that you’re a retarded e-celeb worshipping faggot

[Anonymous No.22834924]

>>22834916
Because I expect most people who know Carlyle discovered him the old fashioned way and not through some internet retard. I'm not even sure if Moldbug's presumed influence on Carlyle's popularity is TRUE.

[Anonymous No.22834928]

>>22834860
You are seething for literally no reason at all and it’s extremely gay to witness

[Anonymous No.22834929]

>>22834892
I have no idea what you are trying to prove with this, you're just extremely out of touch or being pointlessly argumentative online. Just look at the New College reading list for English 2022-23 which is available online if you don't believe me, you will not find Carlyle on there.

[Anonymous No.22834953]

>>22834913
> don’t tell the truth
> be as obscure as possible

[Anonymous No.22834954]

>>22834657
>>22834795
An age when a man cannot speak the plain truth, cannot let loose the burning speech within him, without a pedant leaping out from the shadow, to strike down this word, that particle of speech, that stray syllable, as flawed - is that an age for men? It seems rather another age! That the force of truth, of flowing feeling, may overflow the banks of propriety, should this surprise us? Better rather to attend to the principal force, and judge it not as pedants, but as fellow men, according as it is truth or falsity! Falsity may appear in the properest clothes. Louis XV may be powdered and puffed, may wave at a false realm from the most gilded carriage. The Papal Bull sent in vain to silence brave Luther, who would not be silenced - I do not doubt it was scribed with the utmost nicety, in the most elegant script of Rome. And did Luther judge it by the justness of its prepositions? Nay - by some other quality, I should think! By the manifest falseness no right diction could mask.

[Anonymous No.22834955]

>>22834651
>carlyle
who?

[Anonymous No.22834962]

>>22834954
What is this from lmao
Or is this just ChatGPT
Save me niggerman I'm going insane

[Anonymous No.22834997]

>>22834962
ChatGPT slop

[Anonymous No.22835013]

.>>22834962
It's from the neural network of my brain. ChatGPT sucks at imitating Carlyle.

[Anonymous No.22835026]

>>22835013
>neural network of my brain
Hahaha whatever you say, Samir.

[Anonymous No.22835053]

>>22835026
Sorry dude, I can only engage with you if you post in Carlyle-voice. It's not that hard to imitate the man with the nineteenth century's most recognisable writing tics. I will await your response. Or are you not a Right Valiant Man?

[Anonymous No.22835061]

> Sorry dude, I can only engage with you if you post in Carlyle-voice. It's not that hard to imitate the man with the nineteenth century's most recognisable writing tics. I will await your response. Or are you not a Right Valiant Man
Samir…sar

[Anonymous No.22835411]

>>22834711
>Nobody ever heard of him until Moldbug

Confirmed brain-dead status.

[Anonymous No.22835422]

>>22834711
Lol Carlyle translated Goethe. It's okay to admit you never heard of him until you saw it online, though.

[Anonymous No.22835518]

>>22835422
Goethe was like the opposite of Carlyle though. Goethe was very liberal and hated nationalism.

[Anonymous No.22835552]

>>22835518
>Goethe was very liberal and hated nationalism.
What planet are you on? He was infuriated by Jews being allowed into churches, was deeply concerned with the cultural development of his nation and recognised in Carlyle a powerful moral force. In the 18th century it was easy to be liberal but by the middle of the next century the effects of modernity were becoming increasingly obvious and I can't imagine Goethe not being a reactionary in the face of that.

[Anonymous No.22835650]

>when you try to tell your friend about this new cool obscure band you discovered called Pink Floyd in 2015
Anons should remember the benefit of 4chan is you can walk away from the thread and pretend that wasn't (you) instead of entrenching yourself in it

[Anonymous No.22835747]

>>22834919
>not even first person.
Anon, "we" and "us" are the first person plural pronouns. It's literally a first person account unless you're only reading the opening line. I don't know what person you thought it was written in or why you wanted to correct anon on that point, but I want to you explain yourself.

[Anonymous No.22835814]

>>22834740
>>22835650
>"But the shelves of any second-hand bookseller now testify to a vanished reputation" - Alan Shelston in the introduciton to the Penguin edition of Carlyle's selected writings
What is it about Carlyle that just attracted this absolute autism? Just look at the poster count: only 16 posters, at least one of whom doesn't know who Carlyle is. This is worse gatekeeping and pointless pretentiousness than /mu/:
>OP makes fairly uncontroversial statement that Carlyle is not as well-known as he used to be, not claiming that he is the most obscure author ever or anything
>"NOOOO ackshually he's not obscure at all and never was, I know more about literature and read obscurer books than you"

[Anonymous No.22835863]

>>22835814
Carlyle has been enormously obscured since WW2, but he has also always been KNOWN by true KNOWERS.

[Anonymous No.22835898]

>>22835814
>shelves of any second-hand bookseller
How is that a metric of success?
>at least one of whom
I think the who? post is a well known meme if that's what you're justifying this with

[Anonymous No.22835936]

>>22835898
>How is that a metric of success?
You cannot be this autistic, or you must be just trolling now. Regardless of how you attempt to measure popularity, the primary evidence is only that an academic on the Victorian period considered his reputation to be in decline.
>"In the rehabilitation of the Victorians that has been a major development of recent literary scholarship the case of Carlyle has been left largely in abeyance. Despite the efforts of [scholars ...] he remains, if less reviled, to a large extent unread."

[Anonymous No.22835957]

>>22835936
>you must be just trolling now.
Are you unfamiliar with secondhand bookshops? Having a lot of something or not having it at all is neither here nor there, and the guy writing it was hired to write a new intro, so he must have known there was a new print run. It's not autistic to point out you're making as little sense as an actual nonverbal autist. Again, how is that any metric of success or popularity?

[Anonymous No.22835976]

>>22834918
Some literal whos intentionally misinterpreting Schmitt doesn't mean he is in fashion. I went through a political science undergrad program and we never once read Schmitt because he is a mean Nazi. I know for a fact many other programs ignore Schmitt as well.