/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.22800498]

Vedic edition

>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>22770293

>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>Mέγα τὸ ANE
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

Feel free to write your thoughts/stories/etc... in your target language.

>Work in progress FAQ
https://rentry dot co/n8nrko
You are very welcome to suggest additions/changes/etc... especially for other classical languages

[Anonymous No.22800522]

הַרִאשׁוֹן לִלְשׁוֹן הַקֹּדֵשׁ

[Anonymous No.22800568]

tryina lure in those mystery sanskrit learning niggas

[Anonymous No.22800680]

I quit my job as a teacher. This generation is fucked.
What jobs can I get with a MA of classics that does not include kids?

[Anonymous No.22800699]

>>22800680
teaching boomers on the internet

[Anonymous No.22800706]

>>22800699
I don't think the market for Greek and Latin teachers is that high. Any person interested in this day and age is likely introverted and just buys Athenaze or Wheellock's

[Anonymous No.22800733]

Classics anons, are there any books on philosophy written in the same dialect of Greek as the New Testament?

[Anonymous No.22800737]

>>22800680
>This generation is fucked.
what happened?

[Anonymous No.22800837]

>>22800680
Go do a coding bootcamp.

[Anonymous No.22800859]

>>22800737
>school year started
>teach kids Latin and Greek (year 1-3)
>students stopped putting in any effort except a handful. (year 1 students don't do anything at all)
>School uses now iPads as part of some "iTeach" partnership or whatever. No more physical text books, only iPads.
>Kids are just on the iPads playing games (current one is Stumble Guys), texting, YouTube, or watching Twitch.
>I can physically see their fingers move when they are playing a game.
>Can't kick them out, nearly all are doing this. There is also no punishment from the school.
>Handouts are digital as well now.
>80% doesn't hand them in at Google Classroom.
>When lecturing, kids are watching videos on their iPads. (Some even with Air pods hidden)
>Blank faces when I ask a question
>When I put them in groups to work on a text, they either don't talk at all, or just go on their phones/iPads
It's fucked. Not only are the students getting worse each year (most are white), the technology has ruined any chance of getting these kids to work. The school has already committed to the Apple partnership, and gotten rid of the textbooks. So any chance for change is gone.

[Anonymous No.22800865]

>>22800706
that's why i said boomers not aspie zoomers

[Anonymous No.22800871]

>>22800859
>The school has already committed to the Apple partnership
Education is literally a racket at this point.

[Anonymous No.22800879]

>>22800568
It worked. If you know your Greek or Latin (or Hittite, Tocharian, Armenian, etc. if you're really adventurous), you can easily learn some basic sound correspondences and at least have a rough idea of what the Sanskrit root is.

[Anonymous No.22800891]

>>22800859
This is so excessively sad... and I guess quite a few students happen to "lose" their iPads? I mean steal or outright destroy because that's what feral children do.

[Anonymous No.22800901]

>>22800879
I had no idea that Tocharians had an alphabet or that we even had writings from them.

[Anonymous No.22800912]

>>22800891
They are their own. The school bought it for them (mandatory) and the parents got charged a "discounted" fee. Kids being kids they do lose them, the Apple Pens or Magic Keyboard, or break the screens.

[Anonymous No.22800978]

>>22800901
They do not have their own alphabet, but how did you not know we had writings from them? Quite astonishing

[Anonymous No.22801049]

Is Latin worth learning if I'm learning French atm and I have an interest in Medieval history?

[Anonymous No.22801073]

>>22800978
It's quite an obscure language outside of historical linguistics.

[Anonymous No.22801084]

>>22801049
Yes.

[Anonymous No.22801149]

what was the medieval method of learning latin?

[Anonymous No.22801157]

>>22800859
Where is this? Not to dox you but general country or area

[Anonymous No.22801164]

>>22801073
I pretty much only know them as "the ancient white people who ruled China that varg vikernes talks about"

[Anonymous No.22801171]

>>22801149
The Dichsis of Cato was the typical beginner text.

[Anonymous No.22801174]

>>22800498
Is it possible to finish Familia Romana in a month? I have a 30 day winter break so I was thinking I could read one chapter a day twice or three times.

t. knows classical arabic and english

[Anonymous No.22801253]

>>22801157
He mentioned the race of the kids out of nowhere, so obviously America.

[Anonymous No.22801284]

>>22801253
>year 1-3
This has no meaning in America
Blacks and muds are not rare in lots of other places, this isn't 1980. UK, France, Germany, etc. have their share and are constantly getting more.

[Anonymous No.22801319]

>>22801174
If you're young, clever, and motivated, yes. You will not learn everything in one pass and especially not like that, but you can speedrun the book since that seems to be your goal. Keep a journal, re-read every chapter several times until it matches your native reading speed, and do all the exercises + exercise book.

[Anonymous No.22801320]

>>22801174
Yes it is
You will need to spend way more time than reading a chapter 2-3 times each day

[Anonymous No.22801342]

>>22801164
Totally forgot about the racist thing. For a second I was wondering how could anyone know about tocharians and not know we only found out they existed through Turfan/Kuchean manuscripts.

[Anonymous No.22801391]

>>22800522
That's a medieval language.

[Anonymous No.22801403]

>>22801049
>interest in Medieval history?
Latin is the only useful language for this. German is.a distant competitor but very fractured.

[Anonymous No.22801427]

Anyone else here learning or already learned Middle Egyptian? What are your preferred textbooks? I liked how the Selden one was structured over Allen, but Selden's doesn't have answers to the exercises anywhere I've seen so I can't check my work.
Also the academia scene in my city appears to be 100% devoid of egyptology.

[Anonymous No.22801471]

>>22801403
Anyone with any interest in any history, with very few exceptions, should learn French anyway.

[Anonymous No.22801473]

>>22801471
French is not so useful. The interesting period was Frankish.

[Anonymous No.22801474]

>>22801473
French is critical for secondary sources. German too, but less so.

[Anonymous No.22801541]

>>22800859
that is completely awful anon wtf. I've always been suspicious of student tech in the classroom, and it blew my mind to know that my kindergartner cousin already had a laptop provided to her for class.

[Anonymous No.22802478]

>>22801427
I don't know much about Egyptian besides Demotic being easy tier. What's middle Egyptian's difficulty?

[Anonymous No.22802494]

I don't /lit/ - I can barely read 4 pages of any book before quitting and sadly coffee/stimulants don't help with it. That said, how dumb is it to learn classical languages? I'd love to know Latin for many reasons (to speak it with children and just be better than plebians) and Sanskrit to read the original Vedas, if I ever get the willpower

Planning on isolating myself in the woods with no internet for various periods, will probably both learn the languages and fix my fucked brain there

[Anonymous No.22802543]

>>22800498
>https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw
Your mega link is broken?

[Anonymous No.22802555]

>>22802543
replace the 'dot' with an actual dot(remove the spaces too)
the anti-spam system is dumb so links have to be messed with

[Anonymous No.22802561]

>>22801391
בא בא יא בן זונה אני אראה לך שפה של ימי הביניים

You clearly know no Hebrew, if you'd know it you would never claim that it is a medieval invention. The pronounciation changed a lot in medieval times, but grammar and writing are the same

[Anonymous No.22802818]

>>22802494
unironically set an alloted time EVERY DAY for your study. begin at 10 minutes a day if you're brain is that fried. once that habit is beginning to take hold, increase it to 20 minutes a day, etc
Set a time that is the bare minimum you can stick to at least in the beginning. If you can't do 10 minutes a day, kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.22802822]

>>22802818
10 minutes does sound like a good bare minimum and is probably my maximum right now. It's a lot easier to burst study a language for me (four hours on, four days off, four hours on etc) but that's been really ineffective for actual retention

[Anonymous No.22802870]

>>22802822
Sic perge, nisi laborem immobilem esse vis.

[Anonymous No.22802931]

I finished Menaechmi today

[Anonymous No.22802992]

ΜΙΣΩ το τιθημι τε και ιστημι
They mean fucking everything depending on the prefix. So annoying. And all the different entries for their various derivatives are like 4 pages long

[Anonymous No.22802998]

>>22802494
Going Ted K for a year with just my Greek and Latin stuff sounds very cozy. Probably costs a million dollars to get any land thoughbeit.

[Anonymous No.22803012]

>>22802992
papai better start using accents boy we don't take lightly to your accentless kind round these parts

[Anonymous No.22803014]

>>22800733
Epicurus

[Anonymous No.22803020]

>>22803014
I meant Epictetus sorry I know I'm retarded

[Anonymous No.22803466]

>>22802561
Don’t bother, it’s either the schizo from last thread or a copycat troll. Probably the latter, since no one even said anything about the age of the language in this thread, and medieval languages would be on-topic anyway.

Since I’m talking to a Hebrew speaker: what’s the most natural way to signal grammatical gender? For example, in most IE languages, you’d just include the article (“il cavallo”, “das Pferd”), but that doesn’t work in Hebrew. Would appending זה and זאת sound natural in modern Hebrew? (״הסוס הזה״)

[Anonymous No.22803517]

>>22802494
I have adhd hard. if you can't concentrate on reading words and start from zero you might listen to the recording of llpsi by bald man.

[Anonymous No.22803626]

>>22801253
Or knows 4Chan culture, which was mostly created in America.

[Anonymous No.22803734]

>>22801403
Doesn't that depend on medieval history of what place? Like, surely if you're interested in medieval China the language to learn is Classical Chinese.

[Anonymous No.22803740]

>>22803734
In the past it would have been German
These days it's probably Mandarin

[Anonymous No.22803744]

>>22801427
I had started on Coptic at one point, but I never got very far.

[Anonymous No.22803749]

>>22803740
German to read about medieval Chinese history?

[Anonymous No.22803753]

>>22803749
Well ancient and medieval China yes

[Anonymous No.22803758]

>>22803753
I'm surprised there would be that much more in German than in English. In any case if you're interested in primary sources those will be primarily in Classical Chinese, no?

[Anonymous No.22803809]

>>22803758
German autism and cultural insecurity in the 19th century manifested almost as much in philology as it did in philosophy. It's seriously weird how disproportionately they contributed to that stuff.

[Anonymous No.22803839]

thx2sinoanon for the start with the chinese chart >>22746958 from two threads ago
i am increasingly thinking about starting with classical chinese, probably a bad idea but in any case saved

>>22803734
>medieval history of what place
not that anon but to me 'medieval' inherently means europe, when people speak of medieval china or medieval south america it just sounds wrong to me
am i retarded?

[Anonymous No.22803843]

>>22803839
It's not a bad idea, CC was the first classical language I studied.

[Anonymous No.22804263]

>>22803839
Just open Van Norden and Barnes and start doing them. They're super easy books to jump into. See how if feels.

[Anonymous No.22804590]

>>22802870
>laborem immobilem esse
what are you trying to say because this isn't it

[Anonymous No.22804658]

>>22800859

[Anonymous No.22804832]

Is Bald Man actually good.at Latin or is.it just marketing hype? Sincere question.

[Anonymous No.22804902]

>>22804832
Good Latin, but he follows some fringe pronunciation theories, which he propagates to his drone followers.

[Anonymous No.22804938]

His limitations are the limitations of the influencer format. He himself is probably a fine human being and his Latin is indeed very good.

[Anonymous No.22804956]

>>22802478
>Demotic being easy tier
I don't know where you heard that one. Demotic is bastardized hieratic which is cursive hieroglyphic, and all of them are just scripts for Egyptian. I think with Middle Egyptian the easiest route is learning it in hieroglyphic, and that's what's usually done from what I can tell. Once you know hieroglyphic the other two can be derived in sequence from it.
Middle Egyptian isn't that bad but context is very important in any given reading and reaching the competency to understand that context is slow.

[Anonymous No.22805271]

>>22804902
The ones he's really autistic about though aren't that fringe, like trying to distinguish vowel quantity or final m really being a weak nasal. His decision to elide prose on the other hand is far more questionable.

[Anonymous No.22805563]

>>22805271
I was referring to the facts that he denies quality difference between long and short vowels because of some random paper and that he invented his own greek pronunciation and named it after himself.

[Anonymous No.22805772]

It can take me 10 minutes to read a single page and then about 3-5 minutes when re-reading it
I feel like I'm making extremely slow progress but not sure about it
I often find I missed stuff when I re-read and that is nice

[Anonymous No.22805847]

>>22805772
My teacher's recommended method for getting through a hard text is to read the Loeb version and look across at the English after trying to read the Latin/Greek and use that to help your existing knowledge of grammar/vocab work it out. Works a lot faster than a text + dictionary + grammar.

[Anonymous No.22805850]

How do you say Cynthia should die in Hebrew?

[Anonymous No.22805854]

I saw something about a free online course in Attic Greek scheduled for the spring yesterday but now I can’t find the thread or post. Does anybody know what I’m talking about?
I didn’t write down the info because at work but it sounded interesting.

[Anonymous No.22805857]

>>22805854
How do you say Cynthia should die in attic Greek

[Anonymous No.22805928]

>>22805847
I'm not reading anything difficult, I'm just being flooded by tons of vocabulary and sometimes I get lost with a bit of grammar

[Anonymous No.22806134]

>>22805563
oh that's a fair point. I'll admit I've picked up on the no quality difference to help me differentiate length differences but you're right that that probably isn't accurate.

[Anonymous No.22806213]

>>22803758
there's significantly more in German to this day

>>22803740
If you want to read stuff that hasn't been mashed through the CCP propaganda blender go for German
hell, in some areas (i.e. language reconstruction) even mainland academics defer to the Germans

[Anonymous No.22806249]

>>22804902
drop a vocaroo link reading a passage from any of Cicero's orations. i'll wait. if you're going to talk shit, better back it up.

[Anonymous No.22806256]

>>22806249
>this tastes like shit
>oh yeah? let's see you cook it tough guy
not him but you are a faggot and probably ugly

[Anonymous No.22806266]

>>22806249
No.

[Anonymous No.22806280]

>>22804902
>fringe
why fringe? he pretty much presents competing academic systems of classical reconstructed pronunciation, nothing idiosyncrasic

[Anonymous No.22806304]

>>22806280
Nobody cared about that paper until he started to push it. Only his followers will consider it an actual competition to Allen's. I guarantee you yourself learned about it because of him.

[Anonymous No.22806316]

>>22806266
thought so pussy

[Anonymous No.22806636]

what's the method for studying classical languages?

[Anonymous No.22806677]

>>22805854
Catherine Project?

[Anonymous No.22806680]

>>22805772
Read something easier. Go through some readers also.

[Anonymous No.22806688]

>>22806636
Go through any textbook, learn the grammar, most frequent vocabulary, memorize the paradigms -> read a lot
What specifically?

[Anonymous No.22806705]

>>22801157
Western Europe (not UK)

[Anonymous No.22806724]

>>22806636
are you industrious or lazy?

[Anonymous No.22806766]

>>22806688
I'm going through the textbook and doing the exercises but it doesn't feel enough. Should I do extra practice by myself using the exercise material, like trying to make up my own basic phrases and sentences based on the lesson content? Is there a way I can train myself to write and think in the langauge better?

>>22806724
I'm willing to spend all day doing it. I've got nothing else to do.

[Anonymous No.22806908]

>>22806766
Go through a graded reader alongside with it. Writing shouldn't be a priority right now, just reading as much as possible.

[Anonymous No.22807440]

>>22804956
Aren't they usually associated with different stages of the language? And don't hieratic and demotic use fewer logograms and more consonantal signs?

[Anonymous No.22807444]

>>22805563
Isn't it less 'invented' than 'based on a certain stage of Koine, with some room for variation allowed based on different stages'?

[Anonymous No.22807454]

>>22806636
Classical languages are natural human languages. They should be treated differently from any other natural human language only insofar as difficulty of finding native audio content or native speakers to talk to makes the process more complicated.

[Anonymous No.22807478]

>>22807444
He also wiggles out of the naming part by the fact that Lucian was in fact a Roman period author (but the fact that they have the same name is 100% a coincidence trust me guys)

[Anonymous No.22807524]

>>22807444
1. He has recognised his system is also based on aesthetic, non historical criteria.
2. The "room for variation" is enormous and thus obviously the idea is to "catch" the biggest number of people.
>>22807478
Not to mention that if it were truly named after Lucian of Samosata, it would be called "lucianic" pronunciation.

[Anonymous No.22807835]

>>22806766
>but it doesn't feel enough
See >>22807454. Put Anki on your phone and start grinding.

>Should I do extra practice by myself using the exercise material, like trying to make up my own basic phrases and sentences based on the lesson content?
Yes.

>Is there a way I can train myself to write and think in the langauge better?
Write, think, and speak in it more.

[Anonymous No.22807939]

Between Latin and Greek what language has the most interesting selection of documents, poetry, plays, etc? I'm interested in learning one of these languages purely for literature and can't decide what one.

[Anonymous No.22807974]

>>22807939
If you limit yourself to classical times, Greek.
If you don't, Latin.

[Anonymous No.22808085]

>>22807939
What >>22807974 said. I'll also say that an interest in poetry tips the scales towards Greek.

[Anonymous No.22808439]

>>22806766
>I'm willing to spend all day doing it. I've got nothing else to do.
Do this + LLPSI as a graded reader if you have all day + autism. It's structured as an intensive course for university students.

[Anonymous No.22808479]

>>22800498
i think Oedipus serves as Sophocles' criticism of Socrates' burgeoning rationality

[Anonymous No.22808537]

>>22807974
>Half of my favorite Latin authors wrote in Greek
>Half of my favorite German authors wrote in Latin

[Anonymous No.22808582]

>>22808439

>>22801174 here. do you think doing picrel + llpsi will be more efficient. i have until the 16th to sort out the plan.

[Anonymous No.22808951]

>>22807440
Hieratic and Hieroglyphic were pretty much always contemporaries as far as I know. Sign list is a bit simpler for Hieratic and even more so for Demotic, but jumping in at the end is robbing yourself of so much context that would make Demotic a breeze. Egyptian was also relatively stable as languages go because of their massive cultural autism.

[Anonymous No.22809010]

...þó lætr Gerðr í Gǫrðum gollhrings við mér skolla...

[Anonymous No.22809042]

>>22808582
>sort out the plan

>get textbook
>do it
>get reader
>do it

[Anonymous No.22809055]

>>22809010
I like this post but I'm illiterate

[Anonymous No.22809128]

>>22809055
based?

[Anonymous No.22809206]

It occurred to me that imagining how οἵ λύκοι (hoi lykoi) would sound shouted at a fast pace like while running, or said in a relaxed manner like as if kicking back after long day, would probably be a good way to gauge probable reconstructed phonologies for historical stages of Greek. I'm even inclined to feel that something leaning to the modern pronunciation might sound natural as "hoi lukoi" sounds a bit stiff.

For a compromise like Ranieris I'd favor:
preserving a contrast between heta and iota
upsilon pronounced like /y/ leaning toward /i/
a diphthong like oi could lean toward /i/ at the end of a syllable or alone. And more like /y/ elsewhere.
[αυ] = /aβ/ but [ευ] would still be /eu/ or the sort.
The consonants could be mostly the same as modern Greek but retaining a distinction in the cluster of [νδ] as /nd/, maybe rendering gamma as /ɣ/ before upsilon rather than the softer sound it gets in modern Greek.

[Anonymous No.22809230]

>>22809206
Correction
I think might have meant to say the cluster of [ντ] rather than "νδ".

[Anonymous No.22809235]

>>22803466
I think saying הסוס הזה (you can pronounce it אסוס אזה if you want to sound even more natural, as ה is not pronounced by most Israelis in the beginning of the word, and often in the middle.). Also Israeli Hebrew sometimes makes distinction between someone male (מישהו) and someone of female gender (מישהי) this is not formal, but you will hear it everywhere.

[Anonymous No.22809249]

>>22809206
>[αυ]
>[ευ]
>>22809230
>[ντ]

This isn't how narrow transcription works. It would've been 'fine' in broad transcription, but it's absolutely not viable here.

[Anonymous No.22809254]

>>22809249
??? Not sure how much narrower you may need two letters to be.

[Anonymous No.22809278]

>>22809254
...well, for starters, they'd need to be IPA symbols

[Anonymous No.22809330]

>>22809278
It was just for clarity then to contrast with the transcription in the forward slash.

[Anonymous No.22809382]

>>22809330
But what contrast is that? It doesn't seem to me like you're adhering to a phoneme-phone distinction (which is what the slashes and square brackets are for).
You could do "/υ/ = [y]" (upsilon as a phoneme, and its phonetic value), but not [υ], as ⟨υ⟩ is not an IPA symbol. That's all I wanted to point out.

[Anonymous No.22809519]

>>22809235
I assume your first sentence is missing an “is fine” somewhere? But thanks. Really only interested in written Hebrew at the moment, because I’m making an Anki deck and trying to find a format that works both for Classical and Modern.

[Anonymous No.22809522]

>>22808537
>Half of my favorite German authors wrote in Latin
Who?

[Anonymous No.22809652]

is there any point in learning sanskrit? i speak two indo-aryan languages so it should be relatively easy for me but i can't seem to find the motivation to get started with sanskrit simply because apart from the vedas, upanishads, etc, there isnt much sanskrit literature out there.

[Anonymous No.22809838]

>>22809652
Kalidasa, Mahabharata, Ramayana, all that

[Anonymous No.22810038]

>>22808951
one professor I had referred to Demotic as "Demonic" because the handwriting is so sloppy.

[Anonymous No.22810121]

>>22809519
Yeah sorry, I was writing on my phone.
Good luck with your project, if you have any questions I(and other hebranons) am here to help

[Anonymous No.22810145]

Baldman (pbuh) has revealed a new wisdom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQBpwKWnZAo

[Anonymous No.22810153]

adiuvate me sodales
tristis sum
miser, maestus sum
Quotidie ploro
Quotidie lacrimo
Lacrimo et lacrimo, iterum atque iterum lacrimo
Die nocteque lacrimo
Nescio cur sic me habeam, sed nequeo me continere quin lacrimem.
Lacrimae autem meae sunt flavae. Nec ex oculis, sed e mentula manant.
Sunt qui dicant me non lacrimare sed mingere.
Quid vobis videtur? Adiuvate me sodales.

[Anonymous No.22810325]

>>22810145
>02h:34m
ἄγε νυ Λύκιε...

[Anonymous No.22810375]

>>22800498
How do I come to appreciate latin poetry?

[Anonymous No.22810389]

>>22810375
Learn to feel the rhythms and start with easier poets. Catullus is the usual beginner-friendly classical Latin poet.

[Anonymous No.22810587]

any good anki decks for greek?

[Anonymous No.22810716]

What sort of level of Greek is Rouse's Greek Boy? Just looking for something light to read as a lower intermediate with very limited vocab

[Anonymous No.22810730]

>>22810716
Read it and see. If you can sight-read Logos and Athenaze you'll be fine.

[Anonymous No.22810772]

>>22807974
Wasn't there also plenty written in classicizing forms of Greek after antiquity?

[Anonymous No.22810780]

>>22808951
I know they coexisted at the same time, but I was under the impression that Demotic was generally used to write the spoken language while hieroglyphs were used to write Middle Egyptian even after it was no longer the spoken language.

[Anonymous No.22810788]

>>22809206
>maybe rendering gamma as /ɣ/ before upsilon rather than the softer sound it gets in modern Greek
To my understanding the palatalization happened before the fricativization for the velars.

[Anonymous No.22810792]

>>22809652
To my understanding, Sanskrit has absolute tons and tons of literature.

[Anonymous No.22810795]

https://foundinantiquity.com/2023/03/11/latin-autodidacts-youre-working-way-too-hard-how-to-learn-latin-by-yourself-in-2023/
Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.22810798]

>>22810788
There was no standard and we should not pretend there was.

[Anonymous No.22810804]

>>22810798
Yes, but were there any speakers for whom gamma or chi fricativized before they palatalized before front vowels?

[Anonymous No.22810813]

>>22810804
Probably not. Palatalization seems a precondition for fricativization.

[Anonymous No.22810840]

>>22810813
...they did fricativize (to velar fricatives) in other environments where they didn't, and still haven't, palatalized. I feel like we're talking past each other.

[Anonymous No.22810855]

>>22807939
Arabic, hands down.
I mean, just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9RZgFOUa8U

[Anonymous No.22810887]

>>22810840
Just do what sounds good. That's what they did and what they would expect you to do.

[Anonymous No.22810901]

>>22810855
>looks like shit
>sounds like shit
>no interesting material

Hard pass.

[Anonymous No.22810910]

>>22810855
lol

[Anonymous No.22810916]

>>22810153
Et ecce elephantus, qui pro capite elephanti habet caput porci, et pro corpore elephanti habet corpus porci.

[Anonymous No.22810959]

>>22810788
It's like the more that the rendition of /y/ leans toward /i/ that it generates something leaning toward a palatalized sound for the gamma, like /ɣʲ/.

[Anonymous No.22810969]

>arguing palatization when they cannot recognize a single in-text aorist

I lol every time

[Anonymous No.22811005]

>>22810969
Grammar is more boring compared to the karaoke-like significance of phonology.

[Anonymous No.22811017]

>>22809652
It's probably the "oriental" language with the greatest abundance of religious literature and more, the texts of which have influence in other eastern cultures and their languages as well.

[Anonymous No.22811081]

>>22802561
Imperial Aramaic was the language of the classical period. It was adopted by Hebrews. Calling Imperial Aramaic "Hebrew" is like calling Shakespearean English "American".

[Anonymous No.22811122]

>>22810795
Seems basically like sensible advice.
>As a language teacher, I have found that my students’ scores in grammar tests have had little to no correlation to their scores in broader interpretive skills such as translation.
Unsurprising.

[Anonymous No.22811778]

>>22802494
The original 4 Vedas are extremely hard to fully grasp even if you spoke Sanskrit as well as natively.

>>22810792
Yes, Sanskrit has a GIGANTIC literature - likely larger than Arabic and Greek combined.

[Anonymous No.22811898]

To those here who know Ancient Greek and Latin, did you learn both simultaneously or one after the other? Which way do you think is better/ more effective?

[Anonymous No.22811920]

>>22811898
Latin first then Greek for me
unless you are a native Greek speaker, Latin first then Greek, more cognates in the first, smoother experience if it's your first highly infected language

[Anonymous No.22811969]

How useful are parallel texts for language learning?

[Anonymous No.22811972]

>>22811898
I learned Greek first and I've been learning Latin for only 2 months or so now, so I can't comment much, but Greek declensions seem easier since they look more distinct, i.e the future has a sigma, passive aorist theta, perfect kappa, past has an epsilon etc. while all the Latin ones look more samey, however I assume this is just due to having internalized them.
It's also interesting to see cognates such as fero - φέρω (which I only then realized is cognate with "bear")

[Anonymous No.22812228]

>>22810038
The handwriting and stone carvings both. Demotic is just an all-round degenerate language.
>>22810780
Demotic is probably best thought of as a vulgar fork of Egyptian. It's like if people started writing Ebonics in a new alphabet based off the chickenscratch handwriting of a barely-literate middle schooler.

[Anonymous No.22812435]

>>22811081
After babylonian exile some (not all) Jews started speaking Aramaic, it was not pure Imperial, but it was similar to this. If you'd speak Hebrew you'd know, that there are parts of the Bible written in Imperial Aramaic - Daniel 2-11 and some chapters in the book of Ezra. Most of the post-exylic literature was written in Hebrew, as it was still considered to be sacred language. Hebrew was spoken way until 2 century ad, untill the Bar Kochba uprising. We have a whole body of literature written in later dialect called mishnaic Hebrew - it's called Mishna, it's influenced by Aramaic more than Biblical Hebrew, but it is not Aramaic.

[Anonymous No.22812496]

>>22801403
really does depend on area of study, e.g. in England you have the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle written in the vernacular + some other important stuff in Old English. Still need Latin, but certainly not "ONLY" Latin

[Anonymous No.22812566]

>>22812435
There was no Babylonian exile. The entire Bible was first written in Greek. The first Hebrew edition, the Masoretic, was written in the 9th century AD.

[Anonymous No.22812857]

>>22810375
see vowel quantity videos by homo calvus, and you can start scanning.

[Anonymous No.22812861]

>>22810855
Seriously why does arabic always put on this gay echo effect

[Anonymous No.22812912]

>>22801253
he is dutch, no other country teaches kids ancient greek when they're twelve (except greece)

[Anonymous No.22812919]

>>22803839
>'medieval' inherently means europe
I'm a medievalist and would maybe also include north africa/ the middle east, but never china or the americas, so you're fine anon

[Anonymous No.22812923]

>>22804832
His latin is bad and sounds cringe

t. former Vivarium Novum student

[Anonymous No.22813185]

>>22810772
yes, but it gets scarcer and scarcer as the Byzantine empire declines and eventually almost nonexistent (compared to latin anyway).

[Anonymous No.22813578]

>>22811969
Ancients used them in the beginning as a way to get students used to the syntax of the target language compared to their native one as well as an insta dictionary. You can find on archive parallel translations of Aesop and some of Erasmus' dialogues. Use them to get your feet wet and to understand what is going on before going in raw.

[Anonymous No.22814628]

>>22812923
>former Vivarium Novum student
What's it like there?

[Anonymous No.22814642]

>>22814628
You'd think it's full of autists, but I was the biggest autist there. It's a good learning experience though, the teachers are great and the food is pretty good.

[Anonymous No.22815214]

>>22811969
I'd say pretty useful in the phase of core, medium-core vocabulary learning, especially if you get your hands on some bilingual edition with original and translation next to each other so you can peek when necessary or compare how you understood it vs the translation

[Anonymous No.22815284]

>>22814642
Is it good for improving reading as well or just focused on speaking and listening?

[Anonymous No.22815536]

What do you do if you read a phrase or a sentence and you immediately have a very strong hunch about what it means and it turns out that you are right about what it means but you aren't 100% sure about how it means what it means?
Do you move on?

[Anonymous No.22815596]

Roast me

Ὦ παῖ, φεῦγε τὰς Σειρήνας ταύτας καὶ ἁρπυίας. Δεῦρο, κάθιζε ἐν τῇ ψυχρᾷ σκιᾷ τῆς φιλοσοφίας.

Ἀπόσχου, ὦ παῖ, τῶν τραγικῶν τούτων, τῶν μυθώδη πάθη καὶ δεινὰ διηγουμένων. Ἔλθε πρὸς τὴν ἀληθῆ διήγησιν τοῦ ὄντος καὶ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ.

Μὴ βάλλῃς σεαυτὸν, ὦ παῖ, εἰς τὰ ἔργα τοῦ Εὐριπίδου, τὰ πλήρη πάθους καὶ ἀθλιότητος. Ἔρχου πρός με καὶ διδάξω σε τὰ ἀθάνατα μαθήματα τῆς φιλοσοφίας.

Ἀπόθετε, ὦ παῖ, τὸ βιβλίον τοῦτο, τὸ μεστὸν τῶν κλαυθμῶν καὶ τῶν δυστυχημάτων. Ἔρχου καὶ γνώρισε τὴν ἀληθινὴν εὐδαιμονίαν ἐν τῷ φωτὶ τῆς φιλοσοφίας.

Ἐλθέ, ὦ παῖ, ἀπόδρασε ἐκ τῆς σκοτεινῆς σκηνῆς τῆς τραγῳδίας. Ἔρχου εἰς τὸ ἱερὸν ἄλσος τῆς φιλοσοφίας, ἵνα βρῇς τὸ φῶς τῆς ἀληθινῆς γνώσεως.

[Anonymous No.22815600]

>>22815536
Yes. Finish your reading for the day/period, then go back and figure out how. Separate your grammatical studies from reading.

[Anonymous No.22815602]

>>22815596
I will not. Praise be.

[Anonymous No.22815736]

>>22812228
>an all-round degenerate language
Linguistically speaking, there's no such thing.

[Anonymous No.22815741]

>>22813185
Wasn't katharevousa a thing well into the 20th century and still used by a few conservatives even today? How classical is katharevousa anyway?

[Anonymous No.22815750]

>>22812923
>>22814628
>>22814642
It's only for boys right? Is there anything comparable that girls can do? Why is it only for boys anyway?

[Anonymous No.22815819]

>>22815750
>Is there anything comparable that girls can do?
Cook, clean and watch the children

[Anonymous No.22815824]

>>22815819
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.22815848]

>>22815824
>>>/lgbt/

[Anonymous No.22815865]

>>22800699
The closest the average boomer gets to actually being interested in Latin or Greek is when he’s watching porn without jacking off (due to physical capability, not decency) at the library.

Speaking of tards at the library, you anons ever wonder what being homeless and spending all day reading would be like? I’d likely be able to survive off my parents while also doing this, and it might push me away from just rotting.

[Anonymous No.22815889]

>>22815848
Where did I say anything about being lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender?

[Anonymous No.22815980]

>>22800859

[Anonymous No.22816195]

>>22815741
>How classical is katharevousa anyway?
afaik it was a spectrum. Some people (very few) literally wrote in ancient greek and suggested replacing spoken greek with it, while others wrote basically modern greek with some classical features (eg the dative, breathings).

[Anonymous No.22816285]

How does Latin read as a language? Is it flexible & strong like english, or visual & lilting like french, or abstract and precise like german?

[Anonymous No.22816311]

>>22815284
You will read A LOT and are expected to keep up with their tempo
All the classes are in Latin, so there is no choice but to practice listening, speaking is also outside of class, though you have to give a
30-40 min presentation about a writer of your choice at the end of the year.
During the year we read large parts of the works of Caesar, Lucretius, Terentius, Plautus, Cicero, Sallustius, Catullus, Horatius, Vergilius, Erasmus, Petrarca, Ovidius and some excerpts from other authors. You also get Greek 6 hours a week, but the main focus is Latin.

>>22815750
In theory yes, though some girls have been accepted as well. Officially it is because of Italian laws for boarding schools which require that girls and boys need separate buildings. They are in the progress of opening a second location for girls, but who knows how long that will take.

[Anonymous No.22816391]

>>22800498
>be me
>take an ancient greek elective for my degree
>do no work
>learn nothing all semester
>translation assessment due soon
Boy would this be a dumb way to fail.

[Anonymous No.22816947]

>>22816285
...the moon, whose orb
Through optic glass the Tuscan artist views,

Like the above from Milton. First thing that hits you is the direct object and you don't know what is going on with it until the end of the second verse.

[Anonymous No.22817303]

clg's opinion on comprehensible input?
latin beginner a:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXi1m1_th92pfNYD4wUW4SEE8yZF-DQFR&si=529UcKWw8vG7QLm-
latin beginner b:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXi1m1_th92r4BsXPH_EIEA7Jr6z7N1zU&si=Ounzm6n2l4tMwWJQ
latin intermediate a:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXi1m1_th92r-WvyNnySzE2X-6WJX5GO4&si=-pScIGOgbm2XOFp2
latin intermediate b:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXi1m1_th92oIM8zxRoG-dHZYrgbozFeZ&si=xi34p0rAZLoiPRBS

[Anonymous No.22817320]

>>22817303
It's a good way to supplement your reading. However, there's a severe lack of non-beginner content. Your two "beginner" playlists are braindead easy.

[Anonymous No.22817519]

How do I get myself teached in ecclesiastical pronunciation?

[Anonymous No.22817635]

>>22817519
learn English first

[Anonymous No.22818598]

>>22816285
Things monolinguals with one half assed semester of another language say:

[Anonymous No.22818639]

>>22816285
Candidate for worst /clg/ post ever

[Anonymous No.22819277]

Italian-speaking anons, just how different is the pre-Dante and immediately post-Dante kind of Italian from the kind of Italian you would learn from most textbooks? Like Sicilian School or Dolce Stil Novo poetry. Can you get through them with a dictionary at hand or would you need to tackle it as its own thing like people do with Middle and Old English?

[Anonymous No.22819292]

>>22819277
I learned Italian as a foreign language. The Italian of Dante and Machiavelli is still fundamentally the same language as modern Italian, but there are spelling changes and other quirks of grammar that will require some getting used to. Just learn modern Italian well and when you've developed decent reading proficiency in a few years, the jump to older Italian won't be so hard.

[Anonymous No.22819321]

Are the Geoffrey Steadman editions any good?

[Anonymous No.22819342]

Ga'af

[Anonymous No.22819402]

I want to give Linear A a try. I really do. I know several ancient languages and will be learning Old Persian with some friends, one of which is a linguist. I will try to convince them, having been begged to learn OP, to spend some time on Linear A. Imagine if we actually cracked it. I don't have a PhD, but that's got to be grounds for an honorary PhD and a spot in the Elysian Fields or something.

[Anonymous No.22819409]

>>22819402
Its antecedents are already on the Byblos Syllabary. Every few years a news cycle breaks that it has been deciphered then it gets memory holed. No, I don't know why this keeps happening.

The real treasure would be figuring out what the Vinca-Varna glyphs mean.

[Anonymous No.22819414]

What do you guys think about the Herculaneum papyri?

[Anonymous No.22819864]

>>22818598
>>22818639
you could answer the question instead of being a dickhead

[Anonymous No.22820053]

>>22819864
ngmi

[Anonymous No.22820059]

>>22819864
The point is the question as asked can't be answered because it's based on false premises.

[Anonymous No.22820111]

>>22819321
i use them a lot

[Anonymous No.22820129]

>>22820059
>"What does latin read like" is based on false premises
Lol. keep going

[Anonymous No.22820131]

>>22820129
Every language is capable of a wide range of tone and nuance, there's no particular way that everything in a certain language reads.

[Anonymous No.22820411]

what did wiktionary mean by this? does amans even have a long vowel?

[Anonymous No.22820550]

Stealing this idea from textkit: pick one of these passages and without looking up any words, parsings, etc., give your translation to check your on the spot level.
‘τὸ πιστὸν ὑμᾶς, ὦ Λακεδαιμόνιοι, τῆς καθ᾽ ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς πολιτείας καὶ ὁμιλίας ἀπιστοτέρους ἐς τοὺς ἄλλους ἤν τι λέγωμεν καθίστησιν: καὶ ἀπ᾽ αὐτοῦ σωφροσύνην μὲν ἔχετε, ἀμαθίᾳ δὲ πλέονι πρὸς τὰ ἔξω πράγματα χρῆσθε. πολλάκις γὰρ προαγορευόντων ἡμῶν ἃ ἐμέλλομεν ὑπὸ Ἀθηναίων βλάπτεσθαι, οὐ περὶ ὧν ἐδιδάσκομεν ἑκάστοτε τὴν μάθησιν ἐποιεῖσθε, ἀλλὰ τῶν λεγόντων μᾶλλον ὑπενοεῖτε ὡς ἕνεκα τῶν αὑτοῖς ἰδίᾳ διαφόρων λέγουσιν: καὶ δι᾽ αὐτὸ οὐ πρὶν πάσχειν, ἀλλ᾽ ἐπειδὴ ἐν τῷ ἔργῳ ἐσμέν, τοὺς ξυμμάχους τούσδε παρεκαλέσατε, ἐν οἷς προσήκει ἡμᾶς οὐχ ἥκιστα εἰπεῖν, ὅσῳ καὶ μέγιστα ἐγκλήματα ἔχομεν ὑπὸ μὲν Ἀθηναίων ὑβριζόμενοι, ὑπὸ δὲ ὑμῶν ἀμελούμενοι.

ὁ δὲ Ἀλέξανδρος διασωθεὶς ἐκ τοῦ τραύματος καὶ θύσας τοῖς θεοῖς σωτήρια μεγάλας ἑστιάσεις τῶν φίλων ἐποιεῖτο. παρὰ δὲ τὸν πότον ἴδιόν τι συνέβη γενέσθαι καὶ μνήμης ἄξιον. [2] ἐν γὰρ τοῖς ἑταίροις παραληφθείς τις Μακεδών, ὄνομα Κόραγος, ῥώμῃ σώματος διαφέρων καὶ πολλάκις ἐν ταῖς μάχαις ἠνδραγαθηκώς, παροξυνθεὶς ὑπὸ τῆς μέθης προεκαλέσατο μονομαχῆσαι Διώξιππον τὸν Ἀθηναῖον, ἀθλητὴν ἄνδρα καὶ ταῖς ἐπιφανεστάταις νίκαις ἐστεφανωμένον. [3] τῶν δὲ παρακεκλημένων ἐπὶ τὸν πότον, ὡς εἰκός, συνεπιλαβομένων τῆς φιλοτιμίας καὶ τοῦ μὲν Διωξίππου συγκαταθεμένου, τοῦ δὲ βασιλέως ἡμέραν τῆς μάχης τάξαντος, ὡς ὁ τῆς μονομαχίας χρόνος ἧκεν, πολλαὶ μυριάδες ἀνδρῶν συνήχθησαν ἐπὶ τὴν θέαν.

[Anonymous No.22820554]

>>22820550
Ὄρθρου, ὅταν δυσόκνως ἐξεγείρῃ, πρόχειρον ἔστω ὅτι ἐπὶ ἀνθρώπου ἔργον ἐγείρομαι: τί οὖν δυσκολαίνω, εἰ πορεύομαι ἐπὶ τὸ ποιεῖν ὧν ἕνεκεν γέγονα καὶ ὧν χάριν προῆγμαι εἰς τὸν κόσμον; ἢ ἐπὶ τοῦτο κατεσκεύασμαι, ἵνα κατακείμενος ἐν στρωματίοις ἐμαυτὸν θάλπω; ἀλλὰ τοῦτο ἥδιον. πρὸς τὸ ἥδεσθαι οὖν γέγονας, ὅλως δὲ σὺ πρὸς πεῖσιν ἢ πρὸς ἐνέργειαν; οὐ βλέπεις τὰ φυτάρια, τὰ στρουθάρια, τοὺς μύρμηκας, τοὺς ἀράχνας, τὰς μελίσσας τὸ ἴδιον ποιούσας, τὸ καθ̓ αὑτὰς συγκροτούσας κόσμον; ἔπειτα σὺ οὐ θέλεις τὰ ἀνθρωπικὰ ποιεῖν; οὐ τρέχεις ἐπὶ τὸ κατὰ τὴν σὴν φύσιν;

Οἱ δέ γε ἱππεῖς, ὥσπερ καὶ οἱ ψιλοί, πρὸς τὰς παρακολουθούσας χρείας τὴν τάξιν λαμβάνουσιν, καὶ μάλιστα αὐτῶν οἱ ἀκροβολισταί: οὗτοι γὰρ οἱ ἐπιτηδειότατοι πρὸς τὸ κατάρξαι τραυμάτων καὶ ἐκκαλέσασθαι πρὸς μάχην καὶ τὰς τάξεις διαλῦσαι καὶ ἵππον ἀνακρούσασθαι καὶ τόπους ἀμείνους προκαταλαβεῖν καὶ τοὺς προκατειλημμένους ἀναλαβεῖν καὶ τοὺς ὑπόπτους ἐρευνῆσαι καὶ ἐνέδρας παρασκευάσαι καὶ τὸ ὅλον προαγωνίσασθαί τε καὶ συναγωνίσασθαι: πολλὰ γὰρ δἰ ὀξύτητα καὶ μεγάλα κατεργάζονται περὶ τὰς μάχας.

[Anonymous No.22820604]

>>22820550
Alexander, saved from the wound and having sacrificed to the gods (for safety? idk what soteria is doing here) made a massive competition (?) with his friends, and by the river something particular came to happen, worthy of memory. For in the companions some Makedonian was taken, his name Koragos, excelling in strength of body and often manly and good in battle, made drunk by wine (a guess), challenged Dioxippos the Athenian to single combat, an athlete often crowned in the most illustrious victories. Having been called to the river, as is natural, being lovers of honor (?) and Dioxippos agreeing (?), Alexander set down the day of battle, and when the time of the single combat arrived, many myriads of men watched (?) the sight

[Anonymous No.22820628]

What classical languages do you consider to be worth learning in a purely literary perspective, this is, languages which have a significant corpus of philosophical works, fiction, history, maybe some religious texts but taking in account only its literary qualities?
How do you think learning something like Lation or Ancient Greek compares to modern languages with major bodies of literature (French, English, Russian, ...)?

[Anonymous No.22820685]

سلامسیزلار، بوده بر چاگاتاينى اورگانکان كشی بارمو؟
ياخشىمۇسىز، بۇدە بىر چاگاتاي تۈركىنى ئوقۇيغان ئادەم بارمۇ؟

hi, is there anyone who has studied/studies Chagatai (or Ottoman) Turkish here?

[Anonymous No.22820706]

>>22820685
You know, I was interested in chagatai a long time ago.

[Anonymous No.22820710]

>>22820628
Classical Chinese. It has tons and tons of literature in every genre.

[Anonymous No.22820732]

>>22820706
did you get to any good level in it? and how did you get around memorising the spelling of words?

to me memorising the words is probably even harder than with Arabic, because there are distinctions in the orthography not reflected in speech (long/short vowels and loan consonants), and there are distinctions in speech not reflected in the orthography (front/back vowels, o/u)

Turkic words are usually ok because they write out matres lectionis and do not use loan consonants
but Persian/Arabic words break vowel harmony, do not consistently write matres lectionis due to vowel length, and use loan consonants

plus, these Persian/Arabic words are everywhere. Even more than in modern Uyghur, which is very heavily influenced by Persian/Arabic, but at least it has standardised the use of the words to fit with the grammar and orthography

[Anonymous No.22820741]

>>22820732
>did you get to any good level in it?
No, I barely started lol.

[Anonymous No.22821577]

>>22820685
>Ottoman
بن برآز لسان اثمانی بلیورم اما چوق کوتودر
اوكجه عربچه اوگرنمك ايستيورم

[Anonymous No.22821586]

>>22820685
>Ottoman
بن برآز لسان عثمانی بلیورم اما چوق کوتودر
اوكجه عربچه اوگرنمك ايستيورم

[Anonymous No.22821718]

>>22820628
All the obvious choices are variously worth it if you have an interest in poetry or particular classic authors.
None are particularly worth it if you mainly read novels and want to read more novels.

[Anonymous No.22822377]

>>22820550
The confidence in your own city and community, dear Lakedaimonians, makes you quite untrustworthy regarding others when we mention something: because of this you are wise, but regarding foreign matters you operate with great foolishness. Often indeed when we present what we could be suffering under the hands of Athenians, you don't consider the matter in order regarding what we have told you about, but you rather consider what is said as something due to private struggles: hence for this reason not before we are damaged, but when we are already in trouble you invoke your allies, for whom is quite certainly befitting to mention how many issues we have to deal with damaged by the Athenians and ignored by yourselves.

[Anonymous No.22822401]

Is it ok to start with Latin?
Will I be bullied?

[Anonymous No.22822409]

>>22822401
Yes to both

[Anonymous No.22822421]

How long would it take to learn Latin to the point where I could read Caesar only looking up 10 or so words per page?
I want to do LLPSI with a light supplement of grammar and anki

[Anonymous No.22822444]

>>22822421
LLPSI is a little slow to start. If you've done Latin before you may as well do the first seventy pages then skip to the back of the book doing the last five chapters. If you are starting fresh then I would roll through it and skip an odd chapter if you are not challenged enough. The learning curve is when you start dealing with:1) multiple clauses in a line, 2) passives 3)subjunctives.

I wouldn't worry about subjunctives unless you see them though. Passives you will get familiar with the more you see them. The multiple clauses are difficult in Latin because it is so prepositionally light. Honestly, it's a saving grace in Greek that it is prepositionally heavy but coming from a Germanic language where that is the case will make you feel like you are mentally unarmed with those long lines of text with nothing to grab onto.

[Anonymous No.22822457]

>>22822421
I just realized I did not answer the question. If you are starting fresh, I think about a year. That sounds rough but I'm counting anxious lookups because there are lots of forms that look very similar.

And yes, it is okay to keep google translate open to double check things. Some people are against that and I do not know why. Seeing the endings and knowing what they are is important though

[Anonymous No.22822510]

>>22822421
Three months for a Steadman edition if you are extremely industrious, six months otherwise. One year for a steady pace at an unannotated edition with a dictionary by your side if you are industrious, three years otherwise.

[Anonymous No.22823371]

>>22821718
Even novels do exist in many classical languages, though.

[Anonymous No.22823375]

>>22822457
I think the problem with Google Translate is that it's not particularly reliable.

[Anonymous No.22823415]

Do you know of any good primary sources on Roman paganism? I'm looking for practices, moral teachings, theology, to whatever extent they existed. I'm particularly interested in Julian's attempts at reforming the faith.

[Anonymous No.22823906]

>>22820411
with ns the n was probably deleted and nasalized + lengthened the previous vowel. there's a lot of inscriptions where consul is written / abbreviated as cosul / cos for example.

[Anonymous No.22824045]

>>22821586
مەن ئەرەبچە ئوقۇشنى ئارزۇ ئىستىمەمەن ، ئىتلار تىلىدۇر
ھەر ھالدا، مەن تۈركچە ئەمەس، شۇنىڭ بىلەن لىسان-ى-ئوسمانى چۈشەنەلامايمەن.
چاگاتاي تىلى ۋە خەنزۇچە فوكۇسىم (بۇ مىللەت مېنى خەنزۇچەدە ئۆگىنىشنى زورلىدۇ)

[Anonymous No.22824091]

>Nemo magister peiorem discipulum umquam docuit.
>~Vale!~
wtf was Theodore's problem

[Anonymous No.22824103]

>>22823415
De natura deorum may be the best primary source and then there's Ovid's Fasti

[Anonymous No.22824147]

>>22824091
why nemo and not nullus?

[Anonymous No.22824175]

>>22800859
tragic

[Anonymous No.22824200]

>>22824147
nemo can function as an adjective, commonly when modifying anthropic nouns. LLPSI even notes in the margin "nemo magister = nullus magister"

[Anonymous No.22824583]

>>22824200
hehe it says homo

[Anonymous No.22824859]

/clg/ has turned out to be a great fixture of /lit/

Any Arabic bros around? I'd like to begin learning Arabic next summer, and was wondering if anyone had tips for preliminary stuff I could do to get a head start. I figure if I do 30 minutes a day of rote script reading/writing practice I can maybe have it down by then? What about learning 1000 base verbs?

[Anonymous No.22824909]

>>22824091
>wtf was Theodore's problem
Marcus
Marcus was Theodore's problem

[Anonymous No.22824937]

>>22800680
>MA
nothing
pursuing classics means you get a PhD and go into academia, with very few other options

[Anonymous No.22824939]

>>22824583
lol, ok latin homos. explain yourselves

[Anonymous No.22824953]

>>22800859
find a richer school system with higher iq kids I guess
remember that youre goal should be to teach the one kid in the class who's actually bright
maybe you could try teaching from LLPSI or Martinez's LLGPSI to get them straight into reading, would be much less boring to them than grammar-translation
but yeah, thats fucked
I think private tutoring will become a bigger market as smart/upper middle class parents realise they shouldnt send their kids to public school

[Anonymous No.22824961]

>>22806766
>I'm willing to spend all day doing it.
>t. serial hobby burnout

[Anonymous No.22825034]

>>22824953
Good private tutoring is scarce and even the best tutoring is more like having a personal scheduler. Small class sizes in exclusive private schools is the happy medium. This is what is in fact already the entrenched norm among the wealthy. Everyone else is even more fucked than they realize.

[Anonymous No.22825041]

>>22824859
I had an Egyptian roommate once and picked up on spoken Egyptian very fast. Spoken Arabic is extremely easy, roughly on the same level as a Romance language. Not sure this helps.

[Anonymous No.22825168]

Does reading Harry Potter in Latin help you acquire the language

[Anonymous No.22825179]

>>22825168
No it ruins it

[Anonymous No.22825182]

Is there a grammar cheat sheet for greek?

[Anonymous No.22825212]

>>22825182
Yes but if you look at it you will be petrified, like looking into Medusa's eyes

[Anonymous No.22825215]

>>22825182
look at the back of any greek grammar for the paradigms and general points. rip them out or print them

[Anonymous No.22825223]

>>22825182
Search for the Chicago ones

Protip: It's always easier than it looks because 80% of the time you will have context cues, another 10% of the time it's just a "fuck I somehow forget this even though I know it" two second thing, and only the other 10% of the time is it a major conceptual thing you have to review

[Anonymous No.22825285]

>>22825168
Reading anything in Latin helps you aquire the language.

[Anonymous No.22825469]

>>22824939
Nietzsche fans when they talk about his great works such as Ecce Homo and The Gay Science.

[Anonymous No.22825559]

>>22825168
It's actually excellent if you're familiar with the English version. Helps you follow along and learn vocabulary with less effort. Ditto with its Ancient Greek version.

[Anonymous No.22825588]

>>22825168
How well do you know your Bible? You might try the same thing with the Vulgate if you know your Sunday school basics.

[Anonymous No.22825608]

>>22825559
Is there Ancient Chinese Harry Potter?

[Anonymous No.22825623]

>>22825168
conceptually the idea is ok especially if you have read it already and know the story, but I think unlike when you are learning a modern language it's too anachronistic compared to the kind of literature you are going to actual read from the ancients, I would probably avoid it and look for easy readers that deal with topics and words more in line with the ancient world, for Harry Potter there's probably going to be lots of neologisms and sketchy phrasing to make it work that won't help you too much dealing with actual ancient writers
hell, some here will even tell you to jump straight into ancient writers without even using easy readers

[Anonymous No.22825686]

>>22825623
>Rex ducit exercitus
>exercitus pugnant hostes
>miles struxerunt castra
Yawn.

[Anonymous No.22825719]

>>22825608
I looked and found only this. It's well done enough, but hardly a complete translation.
https://www.zhihu.com/question/48292884

[Anonymous No.22825726]

Frankly, the very most valuable thing for the Western study of Literary Sinitic would be an edition of Guwen Guanzhi with the core text intact and the annotations translated into English. I wonder if any such thing exists already.

[Anonymous No.22826222]

At what point in time did knowing Latin or Ancient Greek stop being a valued marker of 'real' literacy?

[Anonymous No.22826261]

>>22826222
When jews infested Western institutions

[Anonymous No.22826273]

>>22826261
They are inherently Europhobic as a majority so this probably played a role.

[Anonymous No.22826428]

>>22826261
this unironically

[Anonymous No.22826842]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8

What do we think of this scene?

[Anonymous No.22827121]

>>22826261
in the first half of the 20th century most vocal supporters of western culture and defenders of the canon were often jewish. same can't be said about frogs and anglos.

[Anonymous No.22827135]

>>22826222
In the US, the Ivies introduced merit-based admissions at the turn of the twentieth century and gradually de-emphasized and finally dropped their Greek and Latin requirements over the next half-century. This has been a part of a broad drift away from the British model that emphasizes heritage and classics and towards a new American model that emphasizes science, engineering, and other immediately applicable disciplines.
In the UK, Latin and Greek survive as a marker of a certain kind of upper-class education, though one that's on the decline due to Americanization. In Continental Europe, they survive as a marker of a certain kind of elite Lyceum education, though one that is slowly falling prey to falling standards and Americanization.

[Anonymous No.22827142]

my Latin/Greek teacher insists on memorising vocab every week and I find it so god damn difficult to memorise words I've never come across in reading.

It feels like such a waste of my time to repetetively go through vocab that I can't remember when I could be spending my limited time reading instead.

[Anonymous No.22827160]

>>22827121
I wonder how many people spouting this have set foot into a real classics classroom lately. Nothing but Indians, East-Asians, and Jews. Those are the only people who still believe in the possibility of rigor in humanities, by and large. The anglos and angloids have all downed the STEM kool-aid and have their children study "something practical," like finance or engineering.

[Anonymous No.22827163]

>>22827142
So find them in reading and make flash-cards. Perseus has a search function; LSJ has references.

[Anonymous No.22827218]

>>22827135
>In the UK, Latin and Greek survive as a marker of a certain kind of upper-class education, though one that's on the decline due to Americanization. In Continental Europe, they survive as a marker of a certain kind of elite Lyceum education, though one that is slowly falling prey to falling standards and Americanization.
I studied a Classics adjacent field in both America and Europe and noticed a pretty profound social difference between US/Canadian classicists/historians in general and Euro/UK ones.
The former were mostly lower-mid middle class backgrounds who were more socially egalitarian/outright leftist while the latter were primarily from very upper class or even outright aristocratic backgrounds, and the middle class people who imitated their political beliefs and cultural affectations. Classics in the Continent and UK is still very much the secular seminary for the third son who's not going to inherit the family estate or business. Their education is also much more focused on philology while American classicists are more purely "ancient historians" who don't find mastering the languages all that important.

[Anonymous No.22827237]

>>22827135
>In the US, the Ivies introduced merit-based admissions at the turn of the twentieth century and gradually de-emphasized and finally dropped their Greek and Latin requirements over the next half-century. This has been a part of a broad drift away from the British model that emphasizes heritage and classics and towards a new American model that emphasizes science, engineering, and other immediately applicable disciplines.
The material reason, though, is that universities ceased to be a secular seminary for rich failsons as society increasingly modernized, and became an outlet for social advancement for the middle classes. Either becoming technicians or holistically educated peers of the elites who were managers, supervisors etc. or civil servants.
The problem is though, that only so much social advancement can really be offered to the plebs which is why they have become adult babysitting centres described in this poor sap's teaching account >>22800859
They now exist solely as a way to extort the middle classes of extra income that they believe is an "investment" in their kids future, which isn't true at all unless they become part of the pyramid scheme or they Asian/Jew-maxx and force their kids to become doctors, lawyers or engineers. From a societal and institutional perspective, there's no real point in offering classics other than to sustain the pyramid scheme that is the Humanities or to siphon off excess wealth from middle class families.

[Anonymous No.22827243]

>>22827218
Americans don't know what philology is. We constitutionally can't, except by spending tons of time where people do know what it is. We have nothing to protect, and our would-be aristocrats are by and large industrialists who struck it rich. "What's that good for?"—the credo of anti-intellectualism everywhere—might as well be our motto.

[Anonymous No.22827251]

>>22827237
>From a societal and institutional perspective, there's no real point in offering classics other than to sustain the pyramid scheme that is the Humanities or to siphon off excess wealth from middle class families.
I agree with everything you've said other than this. I do think there's a point in sustaining some sense of some heritage, though one that's hard to quantify. As I said earlier, the only people who still believe in it are those perennially on the margins. I myself am a nip. Probably the last custodians of the Western classics will be people just like me. Who are the last whites? Asians and Jews.

[Anonymous No.22827394]

>>22827251
Just to be clear, that's not what I personally believe, but what the administrative institutional staff see Classics/Humanities as, as well as its currently existing social function.

[Anonymous No.22827493]

SALVE, ANONAE.
LONGE PROFECTUS SVM HOC DICERE:
MVLTAE FEMINAE CVM MEA DORMIVNT.
GRATIAS TIBI.

[Anonymous No.22827543]

>>22827142
with some adjustments you could ask ChatGPT to basically prepare a spaced repetitions deck with phrases taken from literature which contain the vocab you feed to it
pic related, albeit I don't know why the fuck he completely messed up the second

[Anonymous No.22827569]

>>22827543
I can't imagine trying to learn on that trash. You have to second-guess literally everything.

[Anonymous No.22827584]

>>22827569
Agreed, I gave it the Kryptos cipher and it translated the second message as "never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down". Fucking AI rickrolled me

[Anonymous No.22827641]

>>22827543
>Ager
>phrase "veni vidi vici"

God I can't wait to dominate AI-dependent zoomers and their swiss cheese brains once they graduate and enter the work place.

[Anonymous No.22827646]

>>22827160
I don't think this is true, I've seen plenty of Hispanics and Jews but not East Asians and Indians, who are absolutely more buggish than most Anglos.

[Anonymous No.22827819]

>>22826261
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.22827841]

>>22827237
>The problem is though, that only so much social advancement can really be offered to the plebs
I'm not stupid enough to claim genetics has no impact on intelligence, but I don't think our system is all that good at sorting people into social strata by intelligence. Better than random chance, maybe, but still with a lot of noise. Which means there will be plenty of plebs with the potential for great achievement.

[Anonymous No.22827866]

I am the "bald man" ask me anything

[Anonymous No.22827870]

>>22827866
Sure you are.

[Anonymous No.22827899]

>>22827866
Timestamp

[Anonymous No.22827905]

>>22827866
eho cedo sententiam quoniam calvesco quomodo possim quam perpolitissime caput meum perlucidum concinnare

[Anonymous No.22827955]

>>22827841
>I'm not stupid enough to claim genetics has no impact on intelligence, but I don't think our system is all that good at sorting people into social strata by intelligence. Better than random chance, maybe, but still with a lot of noise. Which means there will be plenty of plebs with the potential for great achievement.
If you think people are sorted into social strata by intelligence, or that the ruling elite earned their status by achievement, I've a bridge to sell you.
I meant that for a time, the university system provided the middle and lower classes an opportunity for social advancement, because modern industrial society required a middle strata of clerks and managers. But there was only so much of a demand, and our current post-industrial society actually has a lessened need for a middle strata. So universities now exist to fulfill the systemic demands for a managerial class while the vast majority of tertiary students are there just so that banks and institutions can syphon off any extra savings the middle classes have earned.

[Anonymous No.22827959]

>>22827866
Why did you fall for the retracted S meme? It's ahistorical and it makes you sound ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.22827992]

>>22827959
NTA but what makes you think it's ahistorical? Modern Greek and a lot of the modern Romance languages have it.

[Anonymous No.22828000]

>>22827955
>If you think people are sorted into social strata by intelligence, or that the ruling elite earned their status by achievement
I think there's probably some non-zero correlation but with a hell of a lot of noise.

[Anonymous No.22828037]

>>22827992
It's an accident when trying to add a syllable immediately after an S. Usually a vowel, mostly attempting to force an e sound after the S.

The Semitic languages explicitly have it. Therefore if the Greeks and Romans were developing an alphabet and they knew about the Canaanite alphabet being used in early Aramaic then they would have added a letter for it. They did not.

In Syriac that retracted S is semkat. They also have sibilant S and "sh" letters. It is explicit.

Going back to Greek and Latin we would expect to hear it far less because of words terminating in -S. Think of all of those -us, -is, -os words. None of them would ever have a reason to retract that S. That's why bald guy sounds bizarre when he's doing extra work to make a sound that naturally only precedes a vowels (almost always -e).

[Anonymous No.22828045]

>>22827992
>>22828037
And I am precluding the alternative theory that some people are genetically predisposed to making certain sounds over others. In that case, it would explain why the places that got raped by Arabs ended up picking up something Arabs even developed a letter for.

[Anonymous No.22828146]

>>22827646
In elite institutions you're largely right. I'd wager that Cal State, UCal, University of Wisconsin, University of Washington, SUNY and CUNY are however all better predictors of the next generation's middle class that will fall for the university scam all over again. Those schools are chock-full of Indian or Hispanic kids, with a few more East-Asians on the West Coast and a few more slavs on the East, double majoring in STEM and humanities subjects, including classics, and clamoring for institutional access. Very few of them will publish, let alone go on to humanities doctorates; very many of them together will play no small part in the survival of their disciplines, just as their Jewish and Italian forebearers once did.

>>22828000
I'm not even sure there's a non-zero correlation. Nice trips though.

[Anonymous No.22828177]

>>22827493
> CVM MEA
Qua cum tua?

[Anonymous No.22828422]

Is there a difference between late roman latin and early roman latin? Will I be able to understand latin texts from the republican period and the late imperial period with what I learn from yung wheelock?

[Anonymous No.22828460]

>>22828422
yes and no, depends on the author as well, but if you learn classical well you'll easily adapt to either Plautus or Eutropius and others

[Anonymous No.22828517]

>>22828422
Not a big deal in Latin until you get into the medieval periods. A bigger problem in Greek since you'd need an entire glossary dedicated to all the foreign words imported since the days of Plato.

[Anonymous No.22828530]

>>22828517
NTA if i learn Ecclesiastical Latin would I still be able to read earlier stuff like Ovid and Ceaser?

[Anonymous No.22828544]

>>22828530
Where would you even learn Ecclesiastical Latin? Almost every textbook is about Classical.

[Anonymous No.22828618]

>>22827142
I have studied several languages (starting with Latin). Speaking from experience you just have to brute force the bulk of vocabulary until you're at a point where when you open a page of text you know 95% of the words on the page. Otherwise, you won't be able to read it at all, and even at 95%, depending on which words you don't know, you may still not understand a sizeable portion of the page
>>22827543
If you MUST do it on the computer, use Anki.
I personally only use physical flashcards because the act of writing out the flashcards is part of studying and I can be more creative with how I use them

Also, make sure you are including on the essential information about the word you find in the dictionary entry and any special cases/grammar points about the word
eg.
for nouns: nominative, genitive gender
for verbs: the 4 principle parts
etc.
When I was first learning Latin I had a deck specifically for verbs and when I did the English to Latin side I would write the 4 principle parts while doing it. If I got even one of the 4 wrong I would rewrite it 5 times over to drive it into my memory.
Memorization sucks but it's just a part of language learning and don't listen to the tards who say otherwise.

[Anonymous No.22828633]

>>22827160
>>22827646
>>22828146
went to a large state school. All my classics classmates were white, but I also did mostly language/literature focus classes and only took 400+ language classes in university so I was generally shielded from the plebians

[Anonymous No.22828658]

>>22828530
Ecclesiastical Latin is mainly a pronunciation scheme and a genre. It is easy to stick mainly to one scheme and switch to the other when necessary.
You should use Classical pronunciation for Ovid, because Ecclesiastical pronunciation ablates the meter.

[Anonymous No.22828670]

>>22828544
I have an textbook on Ecclesiastical I picked up at a thrift store for dirt cheap. It's a standard old seminary textbook grammar with exercises and readings from the Vulgate Bible and Papal bulls.

>>22828658
I'd prefer to stick to Ecclesiastical pronunciation, since its actually being actively used, but in that case I'll go with Classical then.

[Anonymous No.22828675]

>>22810969
>>22811005
phonology is the most tedious and boring part of any language. I will fundamentally never understand phonofags. The only time i find it interesting is when it informs me about etymology of cognates like going Grimm's law for English and German specifically and the Germanic languages more generally.
The list from most interesting to least of language learning is
1. Syntax
2. Inflection/word forms
3. vocabulary
4. etymology of that vocabulary
5. writing system
.
.
.
6. phonology.

[Anonymous No.22828697]

>>22828633
At my class there was a weird crossover between the taiwanese kids and the classics students. Still no clue what was up there.

[Anonymous No.22828700]

>>22828697
lemme guess the classics students are older girls and the taiwanese kid is a shy kid who still looks like a shota?

[Anonymous No.22828721]

>>22828697
we had a one token muslim girl (wearing the scarf thing) and was LUSTING after this phenotypical iberian looking dude. if i remember correctly he was portuguese descent from boston or something

[Anonymous No.22828768]

>>22828721
>we had a one token muslim girl
kek why is this so common

[Anonymous No.22828769]

>>22828700
Other way around, actually. Lots of mid-twenties Taiwanese girls.

[Anonymous No.22828774]

NOVUM
>>22828773
>>22828773
>>22828773

[Anonymous No.22829781]

>>22828037
The sounds s, sˤ, and ʃ all got transcribed with sigma in classical Greek.

[Anonymous No.22829810]

The future is longer the past.

Can somebody help me translate this to Latin, in the sense of a slogan or motto.

[Anonymous No.22829812]

>>22829810
The future is longer than the past.