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/lit/ - Literature

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2279374 No.2279374 [Reply] [Original]

What does /lit/ think about Eastern literature? How does it stand up to Western literature. I'm woefully uninformed about this subject.

I mean, is there an Eastern equivalent to Shakespeare or Cervantes? I'd imagine there's a lot of good stuff out there, but you never really hear about it.

>> No.2279377

It has nothing to do with Western literature, there is no equivalent to Shakespeare or Cervantes, because they value different things, different aesthetics, different development. You really can't compare, the background is just too different.

>> No.2279385

When I say equivalent to Shakespeare/Cervantes, I'm really just asking if there are any authors in the East regarded to the level that those two are in the West. "Essential" authors as it were.

>> No.2279387

>>2279377

Not a truer word has been spoken on /lit/

In basic terms he means to say that you cannot examine eastern literature with the same "lens" that we view western.

>> No.2279396

>>2279377
Could you elaborate on that?

>> No.2279397

>>2279385

I shan't think you can attribute an essential authors but a lot of the major works would be religious texts I should think. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib is an example.

>> No.2279420

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Great_Classical_Novels

These hold up pretty well to anything in the western canon, I think.

>> No.2279431

>>2279396
It's like comparing a modernist to a romantic to a realist. A good romantic writer would make a bad modern writer, wouldn't he?

Same thing applies here, but with an important difference. A modern writer has read all the previous great writers, at least from his country and native language. Joyce would not exist without Homer, obviously.

Eastern literature goes on a completely parallel route, without one being aware of the other, at least not significantly.

If you take a haiku for example, how would it compare to Neruda? Well... you can't! The haiku is supposed to be concise, it is supposed to hold an entire natural universe in those three verses. And the barrier of language is just too strong. We already know how difficult it is to translate from French to English to German to Portuguese... But they at least have a lot in common. The Chinese or the Japanese works on a very different way. Besides, the visual aspect of it, the caligraphy, is part of their literature itself, while here we don't give two shits about the font you chose to write that sonnet.

Different values.

>> No.2279432

The I Ching is not only an incredible and deep system, but a great work of what I suppose one could call poetry. It is ancient, mysterious, and very educational. I ain't even New Age-in'. Read some of the better translations of I Ching divinations. They are impressive, to say the least.

>> No.2279434
File: 1.49 MB, 1576x4776, Chinese Lit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2279434

Word

>> No.2279435

>>2279431 cont.

There are great stuff though, but language is context and it is important to understand this context. Otherwise, reading it won't be as immersive, it probably won't be appreciated.

I haven't got into asian literature as much as I liked to. I think we lose a lot on translations and older texts are even harder to grasp. You have the well known Yukio Mishima, I would also recommend Kenzaburo Oe who has some sensible themes going on. And there are a few classics like Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa that are really accessible. I found Musashi to be very well written and engaging, but it's not in any way outside of this word, it doesn't challenge the form. I don't know shit about Chinese literature. From India I've read the Dharmapada, buddhist verses and that's preety much it. I got a good translation of it, with lots of notes on the meaning of specific words, this is very important. It relates itself to other translations, explaining why they chose to do in a specific way (it's not in English though, but check for a thing like that).

Sorry I can't help you more.

>> No.2279439

>>2279432
Oh, and by the way: have a translator's notes at hand for ANY work of Eastern literature. It makes the experience much deeper and more satisfying.

>> No.2279443

>>2279431
Why can't you compare a romantic to a modernist to a realist? I seem to recall that sort of comparison being the core of English class.

Translation is a hurdle, I'll admit. But I just have a hard time with the notion that there's some fundamental barrier.


(Not OP by the way, but I know nothing about Eastern lit and this thread piqued my interest)

>> No.2279446

>>2279439
This.

And also I compiled some of the "non-Chinese" literature for I feel it is important.

http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Contemporary-Arabic-Literature/lm/333ZJFMARXY8P

http://www.anothersubcontinent.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10153-60-essential-english-language-works
-of-modern-indian-literature/

There is also much more

>> No.2279457

>>2279446
> the Stradlater
> Peter Ryan, Whittier, CA, USA

I thought you were canadian, bro. I feel violated.

>> No.2279460

>>2279457
>>2279446
and what's all this zionist crap doing in your wishlist

seems unchill bro

>> No.2279462

I actually just typed in essential Arabic literature into google. It was the first result

>> No.2279463

>>2279457
Here's hoping he stops posting here, now, a la Brownbore.

>> No.2279465

>>2279463
STRAD'S NOT EVEN THAT BAD. HE ACTUALLY DISCUSSES BOOKS, AND NOT THE SAME SHIT (GATSBY, 1984, BRAVE NEW WORLD, CATCHER, CRIME AND PUNISHMENT ETC) THAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES.

>> No.2279467

>>2279463

Why would I leave? I just try to be helpful.

Polite sage

>> No.2279471

>>2279467
Decency's sake?

>> No.2279480

>>2279443
Bah, you are right. I'm just being over harsh on this issue. I guess you can compare, but to find the differences, not to expect one in another, that's what I mean. I compared in my own post anyway.

Every author is a reflection of his own time and place. That's all.

>> No.2279482

>>2279471

y u no liek strad 4

>> No.2279487

>>2279463
No. I was jsut saying, cause I thought he was Canadian. And I was a little taken aback at the possibility of Stradlater ever having told a lie ever.

>> No.2279497

>>2279487

Well I hope I can allay your fears

Polite sage and sorry for derailing the thread.

here are some links to Eastern religious texts in english:

http://www.sikhs.org/english/eg1.htm#rahiras

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/index.htm

>> No.2279511
File: 1.76 MB, 2700x2450, 100 works of Japanese lit organized.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2279511

I love Eastern literature. I've mostly only read Japanese and Chinese lit so far, but I've thrown in a bit of Korean literature as well.

I personally have more favorite among the Eastern authors I've read than I have favorites from Western literature, but that's probably because I've read so many more books from there.

As for the Shakespeare/Cervantes, Chikamatsu Monzaemon is sometimes referred to as the Japanese Shakespeare, and Murasaki Shikibu is comparable to Cervantes in that she wrote the first modern novel (which is also very highly regarded), The Tale of Genji. Those two are two of the more essential authors in classical Japanese literature.

For Chinese lit I've mostly been reading in the modern period, but as someone else mentioned, the Four Great Classical Novels of Chinese Literature stand up extremely well.

>> No.2279516

>that feel when you cant find an ebook copy of musashi and the only one that will ship to canada is a 80 dollar hardcover

fuck my life

>> No.2279519

>>2279516
YOU SUCK

CAN BE FOUND, I READ IT ON MY KINDLE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR

I BELIEVE FROM #BOOKZ

>> No.2279525

>>2279516
Here it is, along with The Heike Story from the same author:

>http://www.mediafire.com/?d43k7anl21dn6go

>> No.2279528

>>2279525

And:

http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/331349373/

>> No.2279531

>>2279525
HAVE YOU READ HEIKE YET?

I MIGHT READ IT ONCE I GET BACK TO AUSTRALIA

>> No.2279545

>>2279519
whats the server for #bookz

>> No.2279549
File: 18 KB, 200x311, the_Tale_of_the_Heike.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2279549

>>2279531
I've started reading on the not-Yoshikawa-retelling of it written in the thirteenth century, which I'm betting is a bit more dry than Yoshikawa's version. It's a very interesting/engaging story if you can keep up with the characters and locations though.

>> No.2279550

>>2279545
UNDERNET

I'M CONTEMPLATING BETWEEN TAIKO AND HEIKE.

>> No.2279560

>>2279549
SO IT'S LIKE AN EPIC POEM?

>> No.2279567

'Eastern' languages don't always translate well into English... this has been my experience with classical Arabic/Islamic works, at least. Many existing translations of key works (e.g. the Qur'an, The Conference of the Birds, the Futuhat al-Makkiyyah) are woefully inadequate and lend themselves to a flawed understanding of the subject material. I can only imagine that this is also the case with older East Asian and South Asian stuff.

>> No.2279570

>>2279560
Yeah. It isn't in poem format, but it is an epic, and it was compiled through many different oral accounts and so has no one real author, similar to a lot of epic poems.

>> No.2279574

>>2279570
I'LL DEFINITELY CHECK IT OUT SOMETIME OR OTHER

MANY THANKS ANON

BY THE WAY, IS ALL OF ENDO'S BOOKS FOCUSED ON CATHOLICISM? I DIDN'T MIND THE SEA AND POISON, BUT READING SILENCE NOW

>> No.2279588

>>2279574
I think most all of Endo's books do feature it, if at least a little. Scandal features a Catholic novelist, The Samurai has more of Japan's persecution of the Christians, and A Life of Jesus features, well, Jesus. There are a ton of his novels translated into English though, so there may be a few less overtly concerned with it. I haven't really looked too much into him yet.

>> No.2279609

>>2279574
For the most part, they do focus on Catholicism in some manner. I don't think _A Wonderful Fool_ focuses on it, but I have not yet read that. However, I do find his thoughts on Catholicism and religious interconnection to be rather interesting, and for this, I recommend _Deep River_

>> No.2280374

>>2279609
PERHAPS I'LL GET AROUND TO MORE ENDO SOME DAY

SOSEKI'S WHERE IT'S AT