/sffg/ - Science Fiction & Fantasy General

[Anonymous No.22756330]

Wizard edition...

>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs)
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/guIyhAzS
>Archive
>>/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg
>Goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg

Previous >>22744694

[Anonymous No.22756358]

first for my evil cowardly wife

[Anonymous No.22756361]

Did you order the sexy Bast calendar yet, Kingkillerbros?

[Anonymous No.22756376]

>>22756330
>The Murderbot Diaries series
Worth checking out?

[Anonymous No.22756385]

[Anonymous No.22756395]

>>22756385

[Anonymous No.22756401]

What I really like about stories without clear good guys and bad guys is that it makes for very comfy reading for me. It is like watching two assholes fight and you have no skin in the game. All you can do is sit back and watch the train wreck unfold without being worried about the outcome. Few books can properly pull this off.

[Anonymous No.22756430]

Got a little crackpot theory working that Wyman has stashed away some of Brandon's bastards as a contingency in case the main Stark line dies out so that the bloodline can carry on through whichever one is legitimised he fucked around a lot so it wouldn't be out of the real of possibilities there's some hidden away somewhere

[Anonymous No.22756432]

>>22754444
Gonna drop some reviews of my own if you guys don't mind.

> The Hexologists, Josiah Bancroft
Husband and wife crime solving duo (mostly wife, husband is a weepy sot) tackle a case. Tries to be whimsical and fails, tries to have a mystery and mangles it without a satisfying resolution. 4/10.
> Eric Carter series, Stephen Blackmoore
Dresden except a necromancer and featuring more self-flagellation, latinos, and drugs. Set in LA, mostly. 9 books so far. 8/10.
> Starter Villain, John Scalzi
Sucks shit and the ending is the worst of all. Fuck you, Goodreads. 2/10.
> An Inheritance of Magic, Benedict Jacka
London-based UF and first in the series; the rich are magic and a bastard child discovers his rich family really, really hates him. Conclusion is a little lacking but otherwise, better than I remember the later Alex Verus books (same author) being. 7/10.
> Grimoires of London 1-3, DB King
Aircon guy accidentallies himself into becoming prophesied wizard apprentice in London. Kindle shit, which you can tell by the lack of actual titles. Extremely British and heavily banter-laden both in terms of prose and whatnot but somehow tolerable, I thought. 6/10.
> Of Blood and Fire, Ryan Cahill
Began as bargain bin WoT then tried to shift into bargain bin Eragon, which is saying something. 5/10.
> The Malevolent Seven, Sebastien de Castell
Two wizards and a bunch of hangers-on form a seven-man RPG party to take on something threatening the world and find themselves fucking up at every stop along the way. Doesn't wallow in grimness but is unfortunately banter-laden. 6/10.
> In the Shadow of Lighting, Brian McClellan
Read two chapters and found myself unimpressed. Powder Mages or whatever was better. Also, "glassdancer" is a really stupid name for a wizard. Pass.
> Trial of Ashmount, John Palladino
First sentence is "He pissed himself." Pass.
> Voice of War, Zack Argyle
A military guy is sucked into fighting a conspiracy making magic users disappear. Read two chapters and put it down. An impressive bit of unemotive writing in the first chapter where a child is blinded and there's all the emotion of stepping in a wet spot with dry socks. Pass.
>Magic's Mantle
Some Kindle smut shit one of you fuckers recommended. I was told the protagonist would get smarter but he seems to grow more retarded as the first book goes, culminating into idiotic political maneuvering that saw me drop it. 3/10.
>Broken Room, Peter Cline
Technically UF, I guess? CIA-ish retired guy gets suckered into plot to save a child who talks to the dead. Explaining the plot takes up half of the book, interminable chase scenes the other half and finally a boring ending. 5/10.

[Anonymous No.22756451]

>>22756376
Depends on what bothers you and doesn't.

>>22756432
Why would you trust Goodreads in general rather than more specific people that have similar taste? Seems like you may have a discernment problem in general and don't know who to trust. Starter Villain should have been super obvious for a lot of reasons why not to read it.

[Anonymous No.22756465]

>>22756451

just having the word scalzi anywhere on or in the book should be reason enough to avoid anything

[Anonymous No.22756468]

>>22756451
>Why would you trust Goodreads in general rather than more specific people that have similar taste? Seems like you may have a discernment problem in general and don't know who to trust.
This thread mostly discusses fantasy I know about already, and I figured I wanted to find something new to me that hadn't been released back in 2000 or so. This, as you may expect, was something of a mistake.

>Starter Villain should have been super obvious for a lot of reasons why not to read it.
I'll give you that, for sure.

[Anonymous No.22756471]

>>22756432
>Eric Carter series, Stephen Blackmoore
Is this smut? Is there sex/romance?

[Anonymous No.22756487]

>>22756471
>Is this smut? Is there sex/romance?
The protagonist gets technically married in the first book, there's fade-to-black sex in the first book but romance only really happens from the sixth book onward after his metaphysical divorce.

[Anonymous No.22756511]

>>22756487
Seems like relationships play a big part in the story. Probably won't be reading it.

[Anonymous No.22756514]

>>22756376
>girl writer
>sci-fi
Pozzed slop confirmed.

[None !SFFG.n1h7M No.22756515]

>>22756330
Pandora's Star, Commonwealth Saga #1 - Peter. F Hamilton (2004)

Humans landed on Mars for the first time in 2050, which would've been a momentous occasion if weren't entirely overshadowed by the wormhole generators that allowed humanity to quickly and easily colonize planets 100s of light years away. In the present day of 2380, humanity has established itself on over 600 planets in a spherical volume 400 light years wide. All of the alien species humanity has come across have been peaceful. The sentient AI that humanity developed is a friend and ally. Rejuvenation allows the elderly to become young, over and over again. Even death has lost much of its sting, as memories can be backed up and implanted into clones. For many it is a golden age, but the discovery of a star that disappears in less than a second is an omen of the troubling times to come.

Dudley Bose, an astronomer, discovers the disappearing star and believes that it's his chance for fame and fortune. Adam Elvin is a revolutionary socialist trying to reform the Commonwealth, though his actions have become much more mercenary. Paula Myo is a senior investigator obsessed with a case she's been pursuing for nearly 150 years. Nigel Sheldon oversees the organization that controls interplanetary transit. Justine Burnelli is a member of one of the most powerful families and is deeply involved in politics. Wilson Kime landed on Mars and now all these centuries later his expertise is needed again. Oscar Monroe leads an exploratory team finding new planets to colonize. Ozzie Isaac created the wormhole generators and now lives an itinerant lifestyle throughout the Commonwealth. Mark Vernon has had enough of fast-paced urban life and moves his family to a frontier planet that guarantees a slow and cozy lifestyle. Kazimir McFoster is a teenage member of the Guardians of Selfhood who believe that a being called the Starflyer secretly controls humanity. Mellanie Rescorai begins as a teenage trophy girlfriend to an old wealthy man.

That's not all of the viewpoint characters. The narrative continually switches between perspectives, often several times per chapter. For much of the novel it seems like a mosaic of lives as they don't often intersect. Depending on your preferences this may present itself as a slog of seemingly endless filler or a detailed depiction of everyday life in the Commonwealth. For me, it was more the latter. I loved the setting.

Here are some things I found to be notable. There are literally dozens of neologisms that are only used once, as are many characters and specific details. This creates a veneer of very detailed worldbuilding. There are several LGBT and non-white characters. Heterosexual sex happens a few times. I was reminded of Dan Simmon's Endymion with one of the storylines. Hamilton is another author I didn't think I liked, but turns out I do. This is first novel I've read by him, though I'll be reading many more if they're like this.

Rating: 4/5

[Anonymous No.22756524]

>>22756515
This concludes the Winners' books from A Contest of Ratings. I may be playing videogames for most of December. I haven't decided. There may be a book from whatever theme is picked for the Goodreads group and a few others. I don't know, we'll see.

[Anonymous No.22756551]

>>22756515
>There are several LGBT and non-white characters. Heterosexual sex happens a few times.
Goyslop but because it was written in 2004 it is still somewhat tolerable. There is also way too much sex (but it is hetero sex, mostly)

>This is first novel I've read by him, though I'll be reading many more if they're like this
The early 2000s restricted PFH, his early work was somewhat sensible and not too overboard(by 2023 standards). I am sure you will enjoy his Salvation series a lot more than you have enjoyed Pandoras Star.

[Anonymous No.22756557]

First for Bakker

[Anonymous No.22756560]

Took me a while to finish pic related; not because it was poorly written, but because it was a completely different cast of characters and it took a bit more time to get interested in them. And even though it took me longer to finish this book I unironically did the least amount of skimming with this one compared to the previous books in the series. It ended up being a refreshing change of pace from the constant and relentless 'action' and slightly annoying MC in the main series.

[Anonymous No.22756601]

>>22756551
I suppose I'll find out eventually, though not anytime soon. Why do you think I'll enjoy the Salvation series more? I also don't understand why you'd say the 2000s would be more restricted than the current year. From what I've commonly seen it's as you say, he became insensible and went overboard. I don't know that I'd feel the same. I won't know until I read them. As a reminder, "goyslop" is an irrelevant term to me and I enjoy sex being present in what I read, as I've written several times. I'm not that particular as to which sort either. So, I don't know how much of what you've typed is sarcasm, misunderstanding, or sincere.

[Anonymous No.22756613]

>>22756330
>author best known for one series so much so that people overlook his other stuff
For me it's Glen Cook. Everyone just knows he's written the Black Company.

[Anonymous No.22756618]

>>22756376
>martha
no. preemptively dropped.

[Anonymous No.22756626]

>>22756330
Is there anything Harry Potter- like with a comfy school setting? Or any kind of laid-back fantasy without too much action or the feeling of imminent danger. I'm tired of reading about wars and murders and sex. I need something comfy.

[Anonymous No.22756630]

>>22756601
>Why do you think I'll enjoy the Salvation series more?
Because it's goyslop times 1000

>>22756557
>I also don't understand why you'd say the 2000s would be more restricted than the current year
Probably because at that time the mainstream reading audience still consisted of some straight white men instead of 99% homosexuals, feminists, cucks, tranny and eternally offended liberals.

[Anonymous No.22756645]

I just read Limbo by Bernard Wolfe. It was written in 1951 and I'd rate it as better than the canonical great dystopian novels of the 20th century like Nineteen Eighty-Four, Brave New World and Fahrenheit 451. It's about brain surgeon who deserted during WW3 in 1972 and has been living on an uncharted island for the last eighteen years as a lobotomist to the natives. He returns to what remains of the USA to find that people have started voluntarily amputating their limbs and replacing them with high tech prosthetics to prove their commitment to pacifism but the short supply of the metal needed to make the prosthetic limbs is leading to another war. It's a black comedy about a man confronting his own neuroses in a world that has deliberately crippled itself out of fear.

[Anonymous No.22756661]

>>22756630
I don't know if I'm the the one misunderstanding then or if you're just hung up on a single issue to the exclusion of all else. Either way.

[Anonymous No.22756679]

>>22756661
Why do you pretend to be so clueless?

[Anonymous No.22756681]

>>22756679
heh joke's on you; I'm not pretending.

[Anonymous No.22756690]

>>22756515
I DNF'd this earlier this year but I've been meaning to get back to it

[Anonymous No.22756693]

>>22756679
I'm not pretending about anything. We simply must have different perspectives and I've either seen differently or I misunderstood, or those who said what I saw did, or both. It doesn't really matter.

[Anonymous No.22756704]

>>22756557
>R. Scott "Boy-Rape is ESSENTIAL to My Worldbuilding" Bakker

[Anonymous No.22756707]

>>22756690
As can be seen in the archive search, there's plenty who dislike it for entirely valid reasons. The /sffg/ Goodreads group has mostly good ratings for it though. You probably stopped reading for good reason. There's probably a lot you'd enjoy more than getting back to it. Do as you will either way though.

[Anonymous No.22756715]

In SSF terms, what do you think is especially missing in modern literature?
I really miss the tuned down personal level disaster stories like Wyndham.

[Anonymous No.22756728]

>>22756693
You must have a perspective of a clueless man then. You misunderstand simple things and do not see obvious things right in front of you.
Why happened to you, anon, why are you like that?

[Anonymous No.22756733]

>>22756679
>>22756693
>>22756661
>>22756630
When I think about it more, maybe I'm mixing some stuff up with what I've seen about David Weber's later books. That would explain a lot.

[Anonymous No.22756738]

>>22756728
>>22756733
As I noted here it's quite possible I mixed up various authors and series I haven't read yet and only vaguely remember what I heard about them. Mistakes happen.

[Anonymous No.22756741]

>>22756376
They're alright but never outstanding, I got bored reading the first novel and stopped there
Wells is a decent writer overall though, their previous series is fun and pretty unique which is nice for fantasy.

[Anonymous No.22756762]

I finished your book anon. It's better than I expected. I do like Adah and she has her moments. I would like if you used your own Gods instead of the elementals, but it's a good "starter" fantasy. If you made your own Gods you could easily expand the world more. Nonetheless, good story, good setting that isn't just swordand dragons, fun MC, and decent mystery. I don't know if the incest was necessary though.

[Anonymous No.22756766]

>>22756741
>Wells is a decent writer overall though, their previous series is fun
What, did she collaborate with somebody else when writing her previous series?

[Anonymous No.22756772]

>>22756762
Incest is always necessary

[Anonymous No.22756774]

>>22756560
Is this a real book, why is there a marine and a dwarf standing next to each other?

[Anonymous No.22756787]

>>22756766
No

[Anonymous No.22756807]

>>22756772
I guess so, since it's about the God Nature vs manufactured gods and how incest isn't natural this causing problems. I liked the environmental message vs technology

[Anonymous No.22756820]

>>22756762

[Anonymous No.22756823]

>>22756774
He's an Army Ranger, stupid lol

[Anonymous No.22756834]

>>22756358
Based spiderposter

[Anonymous No.22756840]

>>22756762
>the incest
Picked the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.22756847]

>>22756715
I think that the greatest difference between the writers of old and the writers of now is that back then, they'd actually seen some shit. Served in the trenches of a world war or killed a bunch of Vietcong in the jungles, or just grown up desperately poor in a world that has something of the alien or bizarre to us.

Meanwhile, modern authors all seem to stem from a sort of middle-class mediocrity, having suffered nothing and achieved nothing. They're programmers, advertising people, failed artists. They're vastly more boring people, and boring people will by and large produce boring books.

[Anonymous No.22756867]

>>22756823
He looks awfully short to be an army ranger.

[Anonymous No.22756878]

>>22756867
he is black

[Anonymous No.22756951]

>>22756762
>I don't know if the incest was necessary though.
what kind of incest?

[Anonymous No.22756956]

>>22756762
A good AI cover. I'm excited for the future of sci-fi/fantasy cover art that isn't just a shitty font spelling out "of x and y"

[Anonymous No.22756974]

>>22756956
introducing my new book, Of Dragons and Blood, the first in the Court of Vampire Dragons series
it got rave reviews on goodreads

[Anonymous No.22756975]

>>22756956
The more AI art I see the more disappointed I get. I also read few chatbot conversations and it was very disappoingting. I don't know if technology devopment stopped, stagnated or developers hit some kind of wall, encountered a problem they can't solve or they just purposely gimped it.

[Anonymous No.22757034]

>>22756956
Everyone uses x of y with AI art

[Anonymous No.22757063]

BACK TO THE MAIN SERIES!

[Anonymous No.22757077]

>>22756975
It certainly has its issues, but I'm far from disappointed with it.

[Anonymous No.22757078]

I would like some recs on the theme "a guy and his spaceship". There's a bunch of books on a similar theme but generally the guy's got a crew and I'd like to have the true space frontier loner experience if at all possible. Also, decent writing preferred.

Picrel: AI sloppa.

[Anonymous No.22757116]

/SFFG/ Recommendations:

Read Reverend Insanity, Lord of The Mysteries, Neuromancer, Hyperion, The Prince of Nothing

Also read The Wandering Inn, Between Two Fires, Mother of Learning, Cradle, I Shall Seal the Heavens, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Poppy War.

[Anonymous No.22757120]

/SFFG/ Recommendations: LITRPG Edition

Read Azarinth Healer, Primal Hunter, He Who Fights with Monsters, Dungeon Crawler Carl

Also read System Universe, Dissonance, Defiance of the Fall, Iron Prince.

[Anonymous No.22757148]

>>22756661
>just hung up on a single issue
the collapse of civilisation is not a "single issue", anon

[Anonymous No.22757149]

>>22757078
"Tales of Pirx the Pilot" by Stanislav Lem is usually pretty much on his own, I think

[Anonymous No.22757219]

Fuck you I liked it. Thoughts?
What should I read next?

[Anonymous No.22757221]

Who are the most poetic sffg novelists of all time?

[Anonymous No.22757223]

>>22756951
It's weird. It's sort of ambiguous if they fucked or not. Her brother is dead, but she has ghost sex with him (maybe?) yet she 'also mental issues. It leaves it up to the reader's interpretation.

It's not a bad story. It can be elaborated on, but it's also good enough

[Anonymous No.22757229]

>>22757149
Thanks for the rec. Kind of strange setting (physical currency, really?) but I'll give it a shot.

[Anonymous No.22757262]

>>22757219
>Some leftist asshole,
>a closet communist
>anti Freedom
>recommened by the Guardian
Into the trash it goes

[Anonymous No.22757268]

>>22756330
Bakkerchads... I can feel it. The normies are noticing him. He's gonna get a movie/show deal soon. He'll get the GoT treatment - yes it will be shit. It will pale in comparison to the books. But he'll get the money, and more importantly the long overdue recognition.

[Anonymous No.22757270]

>>22757268
Normies can't read your books if they go out of print

[Anonymous No.22757283]

>>22756557
If the name Anasurimbor are so well known among the wider world why is Ishual, their castle of origin, lost or hidden for 2000+ years? Seems like a contrivance to keep the Dunyain hidden from rest of the world - even the Consult.

[Anonymous No.22757292]

>>22757270
normies use e-readers.

[Anonymous No.22757299]

>>22757270
>>22757292
btfoed!

[Anonymous No.22757382]

>>22757283
Its not their castle of origin. It was built in secret and for hundreds/thousands of years the Kûniüric high kings suppressed knowledge of its existence (not hard, its a stone building in the middle of nowhere).

It would be the equivalent of a modern day ruler fleeing to their bunker in the wilderness.

[Anonymous No.22757410]

>>22757078
Infinite by Jeremy Robinson. In more ways than you think. Keep reading.

[Anonymous No.22757487]

>>22757268
B.I.K.

[Anonymous No.22757492]

>>22757283
In the era in which the story is set, nobody except the Mandate and scalpers really bothers with the north. It is so Scranc-infested and weird, people steer clear. It's history has been forgotten by the majority.

[Anonymous No.22757553]

>>22756974
coming to a haremlit genre near you

[Anonymous No.22757562]

>>22757492
>scalpers
literally didn't exist before kellhus rolled in

[Anonymous No.22757567]

>>22757077
>>22756975
not that anon but my disappointment comes from the author not paying someone to make a kick ass old school fantasy illustration. I could give a fuck about artists and their paychecks but I do want to see old school covers make a comeback and I'm not satisfied seeing the AI anime waifu phenotype on every cover now, even if it is a step up from the graphic design intern covers that tradpub uses these days.

[Anonymous No.22757579]

>>22757562
You're correct, my bad.
So basically nobody went up there for fear of death. Only the Mandate even thought about it.
>One cannot raise walls against what is forgotten:^)

[Anonymous No.22757635]

>>22757492
>>22757562
>>22757579
>Centuries past, when the Consult still skirmished openly with the Mandate, Atyersus had maintained a mission in Atrithau. But the mission had gone silent centuries ago, shortly before the Consult itself withdrew into obscurity. Periodically, they’d sent expeditions north to investigate, but they invariably failed, either turned back by the Galeoth, who were exceedingly jealous of the northern caravan route, or vanishing into the vast Istyuli Plains, never to be seen again.
The south doesn't interact much with the north outside of trade. Not only would northerners have no idea about Ishual because its a hidden fortress, but the lands around it are also overrun with sranc. The southern empires - explicitly the main foothold of man after the First Apocalypse - would have even less chance of knowing anything.

[Anonymous No.22757652]

>>22757283
The more pressing question is; what do they eat?

[Anonymous No.22757656]

>>22757635
IIRC, all of the Dûnyain get driven underground at some point because of the Non-Men mages in the consult btfo'ing them because of the naivity of sorcery so it's likely even if somebody found the fortress they would think it just another vast ruin.

[Anonymous No.22757689]

>>22757652
Hunting deer/mountain goats? And foraging in the surrounding forest? Gardens within the walls? I mean if they can find water in a desert they might come up with ingenious farming methods even in the mountainous regions. Also, they train to not require much sustenance? Whatever they do to sustain themselves it would be optimal and efficient.

[Anonymous No.22757695]

>>22757652
If this is a serious question, you must be retarded.

[Anonymous No.22757715]

>>22757695
its MrBtongue meme

[Anonymous No.22757781]

>>22756385
>>22756395
>Good tea.

[Anonymous No.22757789]

>>22757262
>human freedom has never made sense to me

[Anonymous No.22757795]

>>22756741
>their
dropped

[Anonymous No.22757836]

>>22756762
pdf?

[Anonymous No.22757872]

>>22756762
I remember critiquing this anon in /wg/ a year back, glad he finished and is getting a few reads (I also groaned about the incest)

[Anonymous No.22757894]

>read book about mega action giant spaceship armageddon war
>it's boring
>read Lord Periwinkle's School Days at Eton
>it's fascinating

Why is this so common?

[Anonymous No.22758001]

>>22756376
i read the first book, a, thankfully, short novella, and would not recommend to any male whose serious about sff. the story is told through the pov of a robot with reddit-tier motivations: i'm the captain now and just want everyone to fuck off so i can consoom le heckin' cool movies and tv shows.

the only reason this series is even remotely popular is because a woman wrote it.

[Anonymous No.22758036]

Itkovian punishing Rath'fener was pretty fucking cool, idk what to make of the whole jesus accepting capustan's sorrow yet tho lol

[Anonymous No.22758084]

>>22757872
the incest is interesting because it's not treated as a good thing or really fetishized. it certainly feels like it in the beginning, but towards the end it's embedded into the story as a curse and runs parallel to the "environmental" and "what is natural" message. if you commit incest bad shit happens.

[Anonymous No.22758154]

Is it just me or does first person pov always feel childish compared to third-person omniscient?

[Anonymous No.22758202]

>>22757894
people think melodrama is interesting on its own so they don't bother to add any actual drama

[Anonymous No.22758209]

>>22757894
Spaceship armageddon war isn't aspirational to a normal human. Noble civilized people in high society is.

[Anonymous No.22758212]

>>22758154
Doesnt that mean the character is childish? Since its his inner monologue or something

[Anonymous No.22758223]

>>22757894
Because if a spaceship explodes, I don't care, but if Admiral Spunkington needs to abandon his flagship, I do.
Unrelatable stories aren't stories.

[Anonymous No.22758376]

>>22757894
Because you didn't actually like what genre fiction is about most times

[Anonymous No.22758380]

Damn does It feel good to read a Vernor Vinge book. To be sure I'll like a book ahead of time is a comfy feeling.

'A Deepness in the sky' will be my fourth by him and will finish out the 'Zones of Thought' series for me. 40pgs in so far. Anyone have thoughts on the book and maybe some relation to the others in the series?

So far it seems to be more space/hard SF than 'Children of the sky' but not quite like the peaks of 'a fire upon the deep' but I am very early in the book.

[Anonymous No.22758525]

>>22758380
I didn't like it, I think it's terrible (just like Fire upon Deep).

[Anonymous No.22758567]

>>22758380
Have you read Vinge's academic paper called the coming technological singularity: how to survive in the post-human era? It was written in the early 90s I think while he was at san diego state university. Its amazingly prescient

[Anonymous No.22758576]

>>22758567
No but I have watched quite a few interviews with him where he discusses the singularity as well as relating it to his writing.

Last I seen was he claimed it would happen by 2030 as his estimate. (although an estimate is just that.)

I believe in the singularity as a concept although I should read his paper.

[Anonymous No.22758584]

>>22758576
yes its crazy,
"Just so I'm not guilty of a relative-time ambiguity, let me be more specific: I'll be surprised if this event occurs before 2005 or after 2030."

[Anonymous No.22758600]

>>22758584
I don't want to be too off-topic but it seems hard to believe it will happen by 2030, but I didn't think we'd have chatgpt4 2 years ago as an example.

I think 'True Names' by Vernor was also very prescient, it was shocking when I read it. It's a must read, only 100 pages, introduces virtual reality, online anonymity, cyber crime, hackers, doxing etc.
>>22758525
Why didn't you like either of them? The writing, the characters, the story? What type of stuff do you typically read?

[Anonymous No.22758655]

>>22757120
>He Who Fights with Monsters
Fuck yaaa. It's actually so nice to have some god damn chucks thrown in. It just makes it so much more fun to read! I wish there was more shit like this.

Anyone have any recommendation for novels or writers that actually make you laugh?

[Anonymous No.22758716]

finished reading the space trilogy by c.s. lewis. I felt the sci fi stuff was good. alot of talking about god in Perelandra was interesting. and the showdown with the Unman was super cool. But the shift from Ransom to the couple in the third book took some getting used to, esp with all the boring college talk and couple drama stuff. but once the plot got rolling it really got going. i couldnt put it down. Lewis really tapped into something with this story. i like it.

[Anonymous No.22758731]

>>22758600
ok I will read True Names, thanks!

[Anonymous No.22758734]

>>22758567
>sci-fi writer is an actual scientist
Love this.

[Anonymous No.22758794]

Books about mommies?

[Anonymous No.22758919]

>>22757268
i guess that might explain Bakker's radio silence these last 4 or so years. dude fails to advance in his academic career because his research is 1) shoddy, and 2) not at all what anyone else is interested in funding. he's relegated to teaching canadian equivalent of community college classes while fighting a crippling painkiller addiction, all while screeching about drumpf and throwing his faeces all over the internet.

and that's without even mentioning his terrible "strategy" of astroturfing a much larger fanbase than he actually has so he could try getting paid for a 4th aspect-emperor book delivered 3 years late instead of the original contract's terms.

but sure, this dude who has a tiny true fanbase composed of the single least influential identity groups around these days (white males) is going to strike it big with hollywood and have PoN up on the silver screen.

this is only slightly more possible than the fat man finishing winds of winter.

[Anonymous No.22758937]

>>22757268
What leads you to believe that normals are noticing him?

[Anonymous No.22758939]

>>22758919
you say all this like it's normal to know these things

[Anonymous No.22758962]

>>22758939
do you bakkerfags not know everything from your beloved aspect-emperor/male anus scent connoisseur?

[Anonymous No.22758973]

>>22757410
On it, once I'm done with the previous rec. Thank you!

[Anonymous No.22759075]

Is song of ice and fire the best

[Anonymous No.22759090]

>>22759075
the best at being a forever incomplete mess

[Anonymous No.22759096]

What's the /sffg/ verdict on Naomi Novik? Uprooted has an interesting premise.

[Anonymous No.22759105]

>>22759096
most of sffg thinks the Scholomance trilogy is great and I think Temeraire has its fans also

[Anonymous No.22759109]

>>22759105
Both of those seem like YA. Not necessarily a bad thing, just not something I'm interested in reading.

[Anonymous No.22759128]

[Anonymous No.22759153]

>>22759090
>>22759128

[Anonymous No.22759156]

>>22759075
if you don't mind it being unfinished, never finishing, and the last 2 books being sub par then sure

[Anonymous No.22759161]

>>22759109
Scholomance gets better imo even if you don't like the "snarky teen archetype". I stuck with it and the setting was original enough to keep me interested.

[Anonymous No.22759201]

>be in high school
>first discover the devil's lettuce
>baked out of my mind
>read the lord of the rings
To this day no fantasy work has given me that same sense of wonder. Dunsany has come close, though. Was it the THC or just that juvenile sense of imagination?

[Anonymous No.22759237]

>better recommendations for books in the last few days from GPT-sama than years of browsing /sffg/
heh

[Anonymous No.22759240]

>>22759201
Probably drugs played a role but the first few fantasy book hit the hardest because you don't really have a frame of reference. Everything is new. Or maybe it's just a good book howboda.

>>22759237
A lot of the things constantly recommended are light novel trash, so it's no wonder. Which books?

[Anonymous No.22759245]

Any books with cute and breedable goblinas?

[Anonymous No.22759261]

would a wolfe fanboy like bakker?

[Anonymous No.22759269]

>>22759261
Completely different styles, so it's hard to compare the two. I find Bakker's Second Apocalypse most comparable to Herbert's Dune. If your favourite Dune novel is God Emperor, you'll love Bakker.

[Anonymous No.22759279]

Rate my latest book purchases/tell me what I'm in for:
>Kingdom's of Elfin by Sylvia Townsend
>A Guide to Old English (8th ed) by Bruce Mitchell
>The Plague by Albert Camus
>The Stone Dance of the Chameleon trilogy by Ricardo Pinto
>Zimiamvia trilogy + The Worm Ouroboros by E.R. Eddison

[Anonymous No.22759282]

>>22759279
I'm not a big brain like you, I can't really comment.

[Anonymous No.22759286]

>>22759269
I've only read the first two Dune books. But if Bakker is completely different from Wolfe that's good news, I wasn't looking for more of the same.

[Anonymous No.22759287]

>>22759279
>Genres Fantasy Queer LGBT
yikes

[Anonymous No.22759293]

>>22759287
There's a difference between having gay characters and being a "lgbt" book, retard.

[Anonymous No.22759297]

>>22756330
based mega link

[Anonymous No.22759298]

>>22759287
Why are you so afraid of homosexuals that you can't even read about them in a book, anon?

[Anonymous No.22759304]

>>22759293
There's really not. Unless it's nonfiction, a character is only gay because the author wants to indulge in degeneracy.

[Anonymous No.22759309]

Decided to relax this Thanksgiving break and read some science fiction, mostly being a fantasy writer. Gave this a try and it is very good at the start, pretty much Warhammer 40k-like with cool super soldiers in power armor and a setting with demons in space. Then the twist came and I fucking hate it. All that building up of the supernatural threat for nothing. All the ambiguity ruined.

The demons aren't real and are actually some sort of psyop by the space government and the real cosmic threat is space moss

[Anonymous No.22759312]

>>22759309
*reader

[Anonymous No.22759313]

>>22759282
Somebody needs to do a Big-brained fantasy chart.

[Anonymous No.22759316]

Best translation of The Arabian Nights?

[Anonymous No.22759320]

>>22759298
I hate them

[Anonymous No.22759326]

>>22759320
holy projection

[Anonymous No.22759337]

>>22759326
Confirmed faggot, die of aids.

[Anonymous No.22759347]

hate this goblin

[Anonymous No.22759349]

>>22759304
This. It is fucking pathetic. These forced faggotry writers should be locked up together with their fanbase in a camp.

[Anonymous No.22759361]

So it's okay when Bakker writes Kellhus fucking Proyas in the ass but any other book with homosex is instantly dismissed? You retards have such small minds.

[Anonymous No.22759373]

>>22759361
It's not ok, only homos like that shit.

[Anonymous No.22759384]

>>22759361
No, it's not fucking ok and that's why you faggots memed the book for the sake of your faggory.

[Anonymous No.22759409]

>>22756515
This sounds like absolute dogshit ngl

[Anonymous No.22759459]

>>22758380
Too dark for me, much preferred fire.
It really sucks to be Ezr.
Deepness felt like American cold-war propaganda sometimes.
I dropped it (don't read the spoiler) after the main chick was lobotomized, but I'll probably finish it one day soon.

[Anonymous No.22759517]

>>22759361
It's weekend posting, they aren't reading anything

[Anonymous No.22759523]

>>22759361
B(uttf)akker

[Anonymous No.22759575]

What's a good name for a dragon?

[Anonymous No.22759579]

>>22759575
Eragon

[Anonymous No.22759665]

>>22759575
Richard-Scott.

[Anonymous No.22759696]

>>22757221

[Anonymous No.22759698]

>>22759696
Lyonesse is too humourous to be called "Poetic fantasy" imho. Excellent series nonetheless

[Anonymous No.22759700]

>>22759575
Dark Lord God

[Anonymous No.22759708]

>>22759575
N K Jemisin

[Anonymous No.22759726]

>>22759575
Trogdor

[Anonymous No.22759731]

>>22758380
Really liked both Deepness and Fire, it's so rare to read good scifi by an actually educated person. Children was a forgettable disappointment though.

Also read Rainbows End, which was decent enough (the only novel I've seen that uses fine details of public-key cryptography as a plot point, which appeals to my inner STEMfag), but not his best.

Will probably try Marooned in realtime, since someone recommended it in a recent thread.

[Anonymous No.22759778]

Wow this was really bad

[Anonymous No.22759788]

>>22759778
99% of science-fiction is bad, including Asimov and the other two authors of the supposed sci-fi "big 3". Read classic fantasy instead.

[Anonymous No.22759790]

>>22759778
I read a lot of fantasy, but Foundation is what turned be off of science fiction. It was the first sci fi series I tried in high school, hearing positive things about Asimov. I got to the end of the first book and never wanted to touch that boring ass shit again.

[Anonymous No.22759799]

Just finished this shit. Yes, it's just a YA and offers you nothing if you are over 15 years old.
Even the Cuckker books were more enjoyable than this.

[Anonymous No.22759798]

Looking for surreal and weird (dare i say 'gonzo') science-fantasy?

[Anonymous No.22759804]

>>22759799
>The thorns taught him a lesson in blood
This makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.22759820]

>>22757120
>Azarinth Healer
Isn't the MC a roastie?

[Anonymous No.22759821]

>>22759778
>>22759790
I agree. I read Foundation 1 a few months back and it's pretty dated. But it's definitely 1950s Golden Era. I wouldn't let Asimov stop you from reading sci-fi - there is great stuff out there.

[Anonymous No.22759827]

>>22759409
For you, it could well be. There's nothing wrong with that. You're your own person with your own independent thoughts. It shouldn't ever be any other way.

[Anonymous No.22759835]

>>22759575
>What's a good name for a dragon?
Depends on the world building? You can probably make "dragon culture" based on Aztecs or Norse myths but I've always enjoyed the D&D dragon names personally.

[Anonymous No.22759836]

>>22759778
>>22759790
Foundation is basically 1 great short story (book 1, chapter 1) followed by a lot of failing to meet that interesting premise. I remember all of those "2 dudes talk over a desk" scenes putting me to sleep

[Anonymous No.22759842]

>>22759798
hmm maybe some Mieville. He definitely covers the "weird" aspect in sci-fi. I haven't read his Bas Lag stuff but I think that where you'd start. otherwise some PKD but that's just more weird sci-fi and not weird science-fantasy. Ubik is good.

[Anonymous No.22759844]

>>22759279
I recently bought a copy of The Worm Ouroboros, and the print is so fucking small I've been seething for days. Is yours any nicer so I can return mine, and pick that version up instead?

[Anonymous No.22759851]

>>22759778
Also when I read about it people were saying the characters were bad but it had "great ideas" but not really.
And it does the "bad guy is actually the very not suspicious guy wow there is no way it's him" twice.

[Anonymous No.22759852]

>>22759844
It's en route in the post, anon. I'll report back when it arrives.

[Anonymous No.22759854]

>>22759361
>so it's okay when Bakker fucks Proyas in the ass
Imagine taking Bakker posters seriously.

[Anonymous No.22759858]

>>22759854
>imagine taking Bakker posters seriously
I unironically think Bakker's Second Apocalypse series is the best fantasy series of the 21st century, and it's not even close.

[Anonymous No.22759864]

>>22759858
Well, that's one way of coming out

[Anonymous No.22759879]

>>22759575
Depends on whether the book is for children, teens or adults. The younger the goofier the name you can get away with (unless the tone is meant to be comedic then age doesn't matter).

[Anonymous No.22759915]

>>22759858
so true

[Anonymous No.22759931]

>>22759575
Clifford

[Anonymous No.22759952]

>>22757120

[Anonymous No.22759960]

>>22759952
I pirated it and still felt scammed when the author made the roastie best friend fall in love with MC's bully.

[Anonymous No.22759962]

>>22759852
Thanks, anon. btw this is the cover of the one I bought so if you have the same prepare for pain.

[Anonymous No.22759972]

>>22759960
It's tranny fiction. I didn't even bother pirating it.

[Anonymous No.22760007]

>>22759972
>It's tranny fiction.
Is it? I mean, it's popular on reddit's progressive fantasy board so I can't deny it completely...

[Anonymous No.22760047]

>>22759579
Cant use that because it sounds heroic, this old fuck is evil
>>22759726
Sovl
>>22759708
my friend i said dragon not nigger
>>22759835
Setting is based on mediterannean antiquity with a focus on egypt. How does d&d do it?

[Anonymous No.22760054]

>>22759858
This unironically. To get people even comparable you have to dip into authors who published their best work pre 2000, but technically continued writing into the new millennium.

Hes definitely the best living fantasy author that I know of.

[Anonymous No.22760089]

erikson > bakker

[Anonymous No.22760131]

>>22759731
Children of the sky was a bit disappointing because of the lack of space travel and middle transcend technology stuff but I don't know another author who'd ever convince me to read a book mostly composed of hive mind wolf dogs doing politics.

I did like the twist near the end with the capitalist doggo and the little squid things. Love those potted plants.

I read rainbows end just a book ago, I also loved all the STEM references, as a STEM Chad it was amazing, it had that classic Vinge tension building up at the end but overall it was slower than a fire upon the deep in the beginning.

I have his 'Collected stores of Vernor Vinge' next after 'A Deepness in the sky' and then eventually marooned in real-time and the peace war.

What I'm really curious about is his earlier works like Tatja Grimm's World and The Witling, if they are any good. They look a bit pulpy.

>>22759459
Too dark because the sun turns off for 250 years?

[Anonymous No.22760136]

>>22760089
lol, Malaz is WoT tier.
>Malazan is… look, there’s no other way to say this. It’s bad. The plot is kudzu, the world building is haphazard and inconsistent, and there are pretty much two characters; world weary tough guys who carry on despite how awful everything is and smug smart guys who know more than they’re letting on, but rarely share any of it with the reader. The capabilities of characters change wildly for no discernible reason in a manner that makes one feel like they’re reading the novelization of a 6yo playing with action figures.

>I guess the prose is passable, but you’re not going to find profundities like you will in Bakker or Wolfe’s work. And before someone accuses me of not giving it a chance, I read the first 7 books before finally tapping out. Thousands of pages. There’s certainly worse stuff out there, but there’s a lot of stuff that’s much better imo.

[Anonymous No.22760148]

>>22760136
>found profundity in bakker and wolfe's work
>quoting his own posts or some shit
pathetic

[Anonymous No.22760165]

>>22760047
>Setting is based on mediterannean antiquity with a focus on egypt.
Are the dragons supposed to be speaking the same language or are they their own culture? If they are supposed to be part of the not-Egyptian culture and I was too lazy to try to come up with a pseudo-language for them, I would probably have them named after Apophis or some other similar deities, e.g. Priapusphis or just use Greek words and use a range of syllables as common endings for female/male names. If they are kinda like Asian dragons and can be more diverse in appearance you might have some dragons with Horus-like heads and give them names ending on -rus. As I said, it totally depends on the setting you write. You probably want to avoid giving them all descriptive titles as names, though.

>How does d&d do it?
Not sure if there is some pattern that allows you to make your own, just steal some of the hundreds of names that already exist and add a few silent h or so.

[Anonymous No.22760173]

>>22760148
Profound is just a word and it doesn't mean pretentious. Malazan has literally zero subtext, while also being worse written in terms of action and description than Second Apocalypse. There really is no point in comparing the two; Malzan is total slop. Its like Sanderson tried to write black company.

[Anonymous No.22760186]

>>22760173
what did you find profound in wolfe's work anon, what thoughts did he introduce you to that you had not encountered before

[Anonymous No.22760248]

>>22760186
>what thoughts did he introduce you to that you had not encountered before
The word you're looking for there is novel, not profound. That isn't what the word means.

[Anonymous No.22760308]

>>22760248
i interpret profound as insightful. what insights did he impress you with anon. what did you get out of those fantasy books you read

[Anonymous No.22760346]

>>22760308
Profound more often means "felt in a strong way". Nobody said anything about it being insightful or unique.

[Anonymous No.22760357]

>"Ya"
>"Yah"
This is the literary equivalent of witnessing Nikocado Avocado's coinslot

[Anonymous No.22760376]

>>22760346
redefining words in a debate is a loser's gambit, sir

[Anonymous No.22760384]

>>22760357
It's better than "yeah"

[Anonymous No.22760399]

>>22760376
You asked me "what thoughts did he introduce you to that you had not encountered before" because of the word profound. Thats misunderstanding what profound means. Neither definition of the word means something new or unique. It either means "felt strongly" or "with great understand of". It doesn't mean inventing or introducing something new.

You're asking for a response to something not even said.
>Whats so novel/unique about Wolfe, what new ideas did he introduce?
Nobody said that. They said it was written well/with skill.

[Anonymous No.22760407]

>>22760384
Nobody says "Ya" or "Yah" in real life

[Anonymous No.22760416]

>>22760407
I do.

[Anonymous No.22760420]

>>22760357
Now that's a British 10 if I've ever seen one.

[Anonymous No.22760423]

>>22758655
`

[Anonymous No.22760437]

>>22759799
>book 1
>holy based we kill dirty peasants and rape them, go get em Brother Rike!

>book 2
>uhh we sit in this castle and moan about muh oneitis all day boohoo, also revolver

>book 3
>he was actually gay for his brother all this time, no magic involved

[Anonymous No.22760454]

[Anonymous No.22760466]

>>22760454
>long after she has forgotten your name
women don't forget the men they sleep with, it is COPE

[Anonymous No.22760472]

>>22760466
Does that mean your mom still reminisces about me? Please tell her I said hi.

[Anonymous No.22760473]

>>22760454
>If my enemy fucks the woman I love I.. win?
I wouldn't expect anything less given his piglet physiognomy.

[Anonymous No.22760482]

>>22760399
"Felt strongly", so profound is fully subjective then? Gotcha.

[Anonymous No.22760586]

>>22760482
Most words are. Strong, fast, rock vs stone vs boulder vs pebble. It's all relative; for example I'm sure if you compared the prose of erikson and someone highly disabled you could say malazan is very well written.

[Anonymous No.22760593]

So i've been reading lovecraft like a maniac lately and i'm surprised how mysterious and open ended some of his stories are, why don't I see people discussing the endings of his stories more often?
For example, what the hell even happens at the end of The rats in the walls? Yeah, I get the point that that the rats are not real, probably a manifestation of the black magic that has corrupted his bloodline and . But what exactly happened down there in the grotto? Why is it full of corpses and rats, why are there skeletons in prisions wearing rings with the symbol of his house? Is it related to the fact that the family replaced it's own family members or something?
At the end of The color out of Space, i'm just clueless at what it all meant.
And in The whisperer in the Dark: was it Nyarlathotep desguised as Akeley or was it a Mi-Go? Surely the Mi-Go were lying about having humanity's best interests in mind, but if they were lying, what was the true plan?

[Anonymous No.22760594]

>>22760472
I will, dad.

[Anonymous No.22760604]

>>22759575
Nim Quibbly

[Anonymous No.22760607]

>>22759798
BleakWarrior

[Anonymous No.22760636]

>>22760593
H.P. Basedcraft, I don't know why people don't discuss him more, the general /lit/ population just seems to want to discuss him being racist or an incel or whatever other crap.

I haven't read his work since I was a young teenager but it's on my list to be re-explored. So maybe next year I'll have some worthwhile talking points.

Some of his stories seem like perfect English class discussion pieces in the same vein as Poe or Fitz Gerald but he probably isn't covered due to his image.

My suggestion is to try some of his books read my librevox people, I remember them being quite good and I'd lay in a dark room for hours listening to story after story.

[Anonymous No.22760640]

>>22760482
This guy >>22760586 is right. Even your own word in contention, 'profound' is fully subjective, object permeance is quite profound to a baby but as adults I'd hope for most of us it isn't.

[Anonymous No.22760696]

>>22759827
geez could you possibly seethe any harder?

[Anonymous No.22760703]

>>22760607
This. I only read the short story "The Gutter Sees the Light That Never Shines" and it was good.
I am about to read Bleak Warrior soon.

[Anonymous No.22760719]

>>22760636
>Some of his stories seem like perfect English class discussion pieces in the same vein as Poe or Fitz Gerald
Why yes, muh sea life scary, muh slant eyes scary

[Anonymous No.22760733]

>>22760719
>what 16 yo redditors think lovecraft books are based on some YT videos and twitter memes

[Anonymous No.22760750]

>>22760733
>implying I'm 16, use reddit, and watch fish bad stuff on youtube or I use twitter
Try again /pol/lie-sama

[Anonymous No.22760756]

>>22759575
Katla

[Anonymous No.22760765]

>>22760750
Yes that's very implied indeed, just as the fact that (you) have never read any of his books.

[Anonymous No.22760786]

>>22756376
In the hands of a lesser author protagonist SecUnit would've been quipping insufferable pop culture references everywhere.

[Anonymous No.22760791]

>>22760733
I read Call of Cthulhu and you can't stop me from laughing at the big bad getting whacked by a fucking steamboat

[Anonymous No.22760796]

>>22760357
legs built for leg locking

[Anonymous No.22760807]

>>22760765
Are you saying that I won't be able to pull out?

[Anonymous No.22760823]

>>22759858
>>22760054
I dunno man, it just feels like aSoIaF to me. A high effort justification to express the author's various disgusting fetishes. There is no "realism" or narrative theme that necessitates this much boy-rape.

[Anonymous No.22760853]

Brethrens, rejoice, for I have found the fountain of forbidden text. I hereby present you a catalogue of non-gay literature. In this page, secluded in that foul site, you will find scads of "woman" and trannies, keyboard worries typing their wrath in a puddle of tears, while they poop on their diapers the must disgusting screams of sorrow from their spoiled childhood.
Here you have it, brethrens.

r/menwritingwomen

[Anonymous No.22760878]

>>22760853
Truly a most unholy tome of lore, no meant for the human eyes to see and better let forgotten.
The temptation of reading it is indeed strong in me, but I fear, for it is said that only gazing at it is enough to drive any mortal insane!

[Anonymous No.22760885]

>>22760853
>you will find scads of "woman" and trannies, keyboard worries typing their wrath in a puddle of tears, while they poop on their diapers the must disgusting screams of sorrow from their spoiled childhood.
Why would I want to read anything like that?
Why would I want to read about women (written by men or women)?

[Anonymous No.22760910]

>>22760853
lmao

[Anonymous No.22760921]

>>22760791
Funny how Lovecraft always finds the way of ruining his own horrors. In the dreams of the witch house, for example, the story ends with a fucking bare-fisted fight with the fucking witch and the weird rat. That's not scary, that's fucking hilarious and something I would expect from a retarded movie that run out of time and budget.

[Anonymous No.22760928]

No god series WHEN

[Anonymous No.22760951]

>>22760910
The audacity of being a virgin and writing smut is almost inspiring.

[Anonymous No.22760958]

>>22760696
You need to recalibrate the tone in which you read these posts.

[Anonymous No.22760991]

>>22759293
Gay characters add literally nothing to 99% of stories. This is because gay characters add nothing outside of sex/romance scenes or subplots, and those add nothing to 99% of stories, certainly sci fi or fantasy ones. In an actually good story you wouldn't care what the character's sexual preferences are because they're doing something actually interesting.

The only reasons to have gays (or sex scenes) is to pander to fetishes and gain political brownie points.

[Anonymous No.22760997]

>>22759361
It's ok because it's not consensual.

[Anonymous No.22761023]

>>22760823
the amount of boy rape is not unrealistic, not by a long shot, for the kind of society being portrayed. it's just the degree to which it is drawn into the spotlight that is unorthodox. same with unwashed male anus scents. it is difficult to dispute that you would indeed encounter them in a medieval army, what is harder to justify is the author's choice to linger on this subject.

[Anonymous No.22761032]

>>22760885
>Why would I want to read about women (written by men or women)?
Based. Including women also adds nothing to 99% of fantasy/sci fi stories. Like sure, I get it, you like to sex the sexy ladies, now get back to the fucking space ship fight already.

[Anonymous No.22761037]

>>22760910
Why are only those parts underlined? The whole thing reads like a shitpost on /fit/

[Anonymous No.22761088]

>>22760991
Atrocious take. You're taking the phenomenon of poorly-inserted romance subplots that don't serve the narrative and twisting it into some sort of axiom that romance can bring nothing to a narrative whatsoever. It's just not true. Romance can be a useful device for inform character motivation, if done in a way that lends itself to the narrative and/or the narrative's overarching themes.
If one of those themes are, say, establishing societal norms in the world you're building, having a character who goes against these norms, e.g. a homosexual in a homophobic society, showing how society reacts them and how that character in term reacts to this dejection can be compelling.

[Anonymous No.22761107]

>>22761088
>Romance can be a useful device for inform character motivation, if done in a way that lends itself to the narrative and/or the narrative's overarching themes.
Romance is the dumbest most basic bitch motivation people come up with when they can't think of anything better. It's poorly done at the best of times and the only reason you'd go for a statistically improbable throwaway love interest (gay) is to add brownie points to boot.
>story about how gays deal with homophobic societies
Yeah, the 1% of stories where it's the core idea and not an afterhought.

[Anonymous No.22761109]

>>22760885
Pretending to be based and trad by being le he-man woman hater is juvenile, not to mention gay.
Badly written characters in general are a scourge, but I do enjoy it when a writer actually manages to make a female character come alive.

[Anonymous No.22761110]

>>22761023
>what is harder to justify is the author's choice to linger on this subject.
That's my point and why "muh realism" isn't actually a suitable excuse. Everyone shits. If the author mentions off-hand that a character is shitting, especially if that information might somehow be relevant or trying to convey something, so be it. If the author repeatedly refers to characters shitting and even goes on to describe the consistency and stench of each shit, I'm going to start suspecting the author has a shit fetish.
And the absence of any mentioning of shitting at all wouldn't be missed or "unrealistic". Ultimately, I don't really need or desire to know when or how a character is shitting, realistic or not. This is the same logic I'm using when I say "I don't really need to read about boys being raped. In fact, I dare say Bakker didn't even need to open his book with boy-rape." This isn't a statement that I believe boys were never raped in real life.

[Anonymous No.22761128]

>>22761107
The way you're framing it, you seem to think adding romance makes something inherently a "romance story" overall and that becomes the core point of contention for the narrative.
There's a difference between romance stories as a genre and stories that have romance as one of its many facets. You don't seem to like romance as a genre. Neither do I, but that's our opinion to have. Your belief that the inclusion of romance at all inherently dilutes the quality of a story is just patently false. It can be done poorly and it can be done correctly. If you can't accept this, there's no point in discussing it with you further. I'd get more insight asking a Taylor Swift fan what here top 5 Cannibal Corpse albums are.

[Anonymous No.22761138]

>>22761128
>wall of text
Listen man I don't care. I read fantasy and sci fi for the world building, politics, battles, novel and interesting ways in which magic/technology affects social and historical processes. I couldn't give less of a fuck about the sex lives of the characters because the vast majority of the time you can tell a compelling story without ever bringing it up once.

There's just this stupid fucking convention that every story has to have a stupid romance subplot or else critics will pan it for not having a romance subplot.

[Anonymous No.22761143]

>>22761138
>3 lines is a wall of text
I don't think you actually read, zoom-zoom.

[Anonymous No.22761147]

>>22761143
tldr

[Anonymous No.22761151]

>>22761088
>If one of those themes are, say, establishing societal norms in the world you're building, having a character who goes against these norms, e.g. a homosexual in a homophobic society, showing how society reacts them and how that character in term reacts to this dejection can be compelling
This is appropriate for lgbt fiction but not
fiction intended for straight men.

[Anonymous No.22761174]

>>22761151
Perhaps if this were the main character. But as a fan and writer of worldbuilding fantasy with ensemble casts, establishing societal norms and showing the consequences of breaking those norms is pretty basic stuff. This doesn't mean that the only way to do this is with homosexuality or that every ensemble cast MUST include at least one LGBT character, but it is one of the many valid devices of worldbuilding.

[Anonymous No.22761179]

>>22761109
>Pretending to be based and trad by being le he-man woman hater is juvenile, not to mention gay
Is that why you like that subr*ddit so much? Users are juvenile and gay and you like reading about them?

[Anonymous No.22761188]

>>22760991
>Gay characters add literally nothing to 99%
What about Renly from aSoIaF?
Would you say the books are worse because of the gay characters? It's kinda relevant ti the plot.

[Anonymous No.22761192]

>>22761188
From how that anon describes his perception of romance and homosexuality, I think he's reflexively hostile to the subject altogether.

[Anonymous No.22761197]

>>22760991
A character being gay can be relevant plot-wise.

[Anonymous No.22761203]

>>22761188
>What about Renly from aSoIaF?
Literally pointless, yes.

[Anonymous No.22761210]

>>22761174
>establishing societal norms and showing the consequences of breaking those norms is pretty basic stuff.

>This doesn't mean that the only way to do this is with homosexuality or that every ensemble cast MUST include at least one LGBT character,
Exactly. Straight men do not want this lgbt stuff in their fiction. It is that simple, you can establish some societal norms without lgbt. Straight people do want this. Straight people find lgbt to be disgusting.

>but it is one of the many valid devices of worldbuilding.
It is valid for lgbt fiction, not for straight people fiction.

[Anonymous No.22761216]

>>22761197
If you go out of your way to insert that as a plot point, yes. But it's unnecessary to have that to begin with in most cases. If your story is some sort of speculative fiction I want to see you explore the implications of the speculative parts, not muh romance or muh struggles of being an oppressed minority for the millionth time.

Just write a story set in the real world if the main themes of your story are real world issues, why even bother with setting up a fantasy world? Do you faggots not understand conservation of detail?

[Anonymous No.22761217]

>>22761210
*Straight people do NOT want this.

[Anonymous No.22761219]

>>22761192
Clearly he's trying to rationalize his hatred for the topic, i'm just trying to prove him that he's not being rational about it at all and point out that some stories can have gay characters without supporting tje LGBT agenda or anything.
Doesn't Baron Harkonnen also rape boys?
Surely Frank Herbert had a fetish for it too.

[Anonymous No.22761225]

>>22761210
>Straight people find lgbt to be disgusting.
And here you have given yourself away. I'm straight. I don't find LGBT people disgusting. I've written them in my own works from time to time. Seethe and mald about it all you want. You have nothing of value to add to this discussion.

[Anonymous No.22761233]

>>22761192
I am not the faggot whining about gaysex. I don't mind gays in particular, I just think gayness falls under sexuality and sexuality falls squarely under redunant things that don't matter for most speculative fiction because most speculative fiction doesn't do anything interesting with the concept, just copy pastes real world issues. Which makes it superfluous and not worth bringing up.

[Anonymous No.22761234]

>>22761225
>I'm straight.
Sounds like something a faggot would say.

[Anonymous No.22761235]

>>22761225
Then you aren't straight, you are a closet homo

[Anonymous No.22761241]

>>22761219
You cannot prove to an irrational man that he is being irrational. That requires rationality.

[Anonymous No.22761245]

>>22761225
There are at least two anons you stupid faggot. >>22760991 and >>22761216 are me, >>22761174 and >>22761210 are not.

[Anonymous No.22761247]

>>22761216
>But it's unnecessary to have that to begin with in most cases.
You just admitted it can be a valid plot point, why would it be unnecessary more than any other plot point? Clearly you are just against this idea overall.
There were gay nobles IRL, and in some cases that was a big aspect of their personal life and even was politically relevant. Why can't a fantasy setting have them too?
>not muh romance or muh struggles of being an oppressed minority for the millionth time.
Having gay characters does not inherently imply talking about muh opression, I agree, that sucks. But you must also agree in that having gay characters doesn't imply that in itself.

[Anonymous No.22761248]

>>22761245
wow too different people are trying to force /pol/ shit at once, at a weekend, without referencing anything they've actually read
surely this represents a signficant sample

[Anonymous No.22761251]

>>22761245
Also >>22761233 is me

If you want to debate me, don't conflate me with the 90iq mouthbreather.

[Anonymous No.22761254]

>>22761233
>sexuality falls squarely under redunant things that don't matter for most speculative fiction because most speculative fiction doesn't do anything interesting with the concept
You could make this argument about literally anything when it comes to speculative fiction.

[Anonymous No.22761259]

>>22761251
Sorry, I should pay more attention to your posts' ID code.

[Anonymous No.22761260]

>>22761247
>Why can't a fantasy setting have them too?
Because straight reader audience does not want them.

[Anonymous No.22761262]

>>22761210
>not true scotsman fallacy

[Anonymous No.22761266]

>>22761247
I admitted nothing you snivelling little shit. You can make gayness a plot point. But it's going to be a shitty and superfluous plot point if your setting doesn't specifically do something to alter how homosexuality would be perceived and interact with society for whatever reason, to make it an interesting theme to explore. Most stories do nothing of the sort, sexuality is copied straight from the real world and has no interesting implications.

[Anonymous No.22761267]

>>22761245
>>22761251
Ah. Then there's no need to debate you then. You reflexively hate romance as a subject. There's no way I can rationally frame my appeals to bypass your irrational emotions.

[Anonymous No.22761273]

I was looking through a text comparison of Rothfuss's re-worked story. A boy is changed into a girl, name unchanged. A boy is angry that his brother is trying to steal his girlfriend from him is changed to his brother is trying to steal his boyfriend from him. Seems to be a considerable amount of gender/sexuality swaps.
Rike goes from 58 mentions to 153 and it's added that Bast owns the boy.
Overall mostly seems to be adding LGBT material and removing heterosexual males. Make of that as you will.

[Anonymous No.22761275]

>>22761259
If you still can't tell anons apart by their wildly different posting styles and fundamental premises you should lurk more.

[Anonymous No.22761283]

>>22761267
That is not him, that is me. I hate sexuality (straight or gay) as a subject. Sff should have no sexuality of any kind.

[Anonymous No.22761284]

>>22761260
Sounds like (you) are the one who doesn't like it.
Anyway, what will you do when you read history and you find gay nobles having secret romances and being killed because of it? I guess god is a LGBT supporter and a bad writer.

[Anonymous No.22761288]

>>22761284
History is record of events that happenes irl, it is not self insert fantasy or science fiction

[Anonymous No.22761304]

>>22761267
>You reflexively hate
Stop lying. I said nothing of the sort. If romance is not a core theme of the story, or somehow impacted by the core theme of the story in interesting ways, it is dead weight. I don't mind romance being in romance stories, and I don't mind romance being explored in settings where the premise leads to interesting implications for it.

I just think it is entirely pointless when you do nothing interesting with it. The vast majority of fantasy simply transplants real world sexuality and social mores to a fantasy setting and uses them to pad out the page count.

[Anonymous No.22761306]

>>22758794
The official Mom Protagonist SFF List.
I apologize for the lengthy (ie autistic) list. I may update it later.
>Caught in Crystal (1987) by Patricia Wrede
>The Interior Life (1990) by Katherine Blake
>Raven's Duology (2004-2005) by Patricia Briggs
>Wolfblade Trilogy (2004-2005) by Jennifer Fallon
>Bridge of D'Arnath (2004-2005) by Carol Berg
>The World Gates Trilogy (2004-2005) By Holly Lisle, She wrote Minerva Wakes and the Arhel trilogy, those two books also have mom mc
>Dragonsbane (1985) by Barbara Hambly
>Paladin of Souls and Vorkosigan saga by Lois McMaster Bujold
>Sunrunner Saga (1988-1993) by Melanie Rawn. Mommy Sioned best yandere girl
>The Empire Trilogy (1987-1992) by Janny Wurts
>Liveship Traders (1998-200) by Robin Hobb
>Birthgrave (1975-1978) by Tanith Lee
>Heart of Bronze (1997-1998) by Matthew Stover
>Karavans Trilogy (2006-2012) by Jennifer Roberson
>Skinwalkers (2014) by Wendy N. Wagner, about an ex-pirate Axe wielding mom!
>Frostfell (2006) by Mark Sehestedt
>Legacy of Steel (1998) by Mary H. Herbert
>The Traitor Spy Trilogy (2010-2012) by Trudi Canavan
>Sevenwaters Trilogy (1999-2001) by Juliet Marillier
>Blood songs (1987, third book in the Frost trilogy) by Robin Wayne Bailey
>Bloodsong Trilogy (1985-1986) by Asa Drake
>Gypsies (1988) by Robert Charles Wilson
>Child of Time (1991) by Robert Silverberg
>The Wayfarer Redemption (1995-1999) by Sara Douglass, by book three almost every character is pregnant, after book three there's a 20 year time-skip so all the mcs have grown-up children
>The Forgotten Beasts of Eld (1974) by Patricia A. McKillip
>The Keys to Paradise Trilogy (1987-1988) by Robert Vardeman, trio of mcs all of the same importance, veterans of the Trans-War that ravaged the country, one of them is a cat-girl who saves a slave kid and adopts him
>Bitter Angels (2009) by C.L Anderson
>The Great Wheel (1987, book three of the Tredana Trilogy) by Joyce Ballou Gregorian
>Daughter of the Bear King (1987) by Eleanor Arnason
>Night-Threads series by Ru Emerson, portal fantasy about a druggie mom, her sister and her teenage son.
>Frostflower adn Thorn (1980) Phyllis Ann Karr
>Fifth Millenium by S.M. Stirling, Shirley Meier, and Karen Wehrstein
>Spellsong Cycle (1997-2002) by L.E. Modesitt Jr
>The Sword of Lyric by Sharon Hinck, christian portal fantasy about a soccer mom and her son fighting against Not-Satan
>Cradle of Sea and Soill (2020) by Bernie Anes Paz
>Boneshaker (2009) Cherie Priest
>The Gap Cycle by Stephen Donaldson, absolute grimdark kino but like most of Donaldson's work it has a happy ending, the main characters just have to go through hell to get it.
>Dragon Gate by Lindsay Buroker, a six book epic about a Mother-son duo
>Memories of Ice (2001 Book 3 of Malazan Book of the Fallen) by Steven Erikson
>To Sail Beyond the Sunset (1987) by Robert Heinlein
I'm open to any suggestions for SFF books with mom mc
And Kate Elliott's new Mom protagonist book the Keeper's Six.
BakkerWolfeVance is king etc.

[Anonymous No.22761312]

>>22761266
The fact that it can be done badly is a reason to not do it?
Yes, if it's a medieval setting and gay people are seen as normal then it wasn't handled correctly and probably was just virtue signaling. But I hope you realize that this is not a reason to discredit all use of gay characters as propaganda.
My point, overall, is that:
>having gay characters != having a LGBT agenda
In fact, it's realistic to have some, gay people exist.

[Anonymous No.22761326]

>>22761288
Well, i'm a straight white male and I like fiction books which are trying to recreate what could factually happen in history.
So yeah, I don't have any probelm with that because I like realism in my books.

[Anonymous No.22761353]

>>22761312
>In fact, it's realistic to have some, gay people exist
This was answered above by another anon, see >>22761110

>>22761326
You are not straight male, no straight man wants to read fantasy or science fiction containing gay characters or lgbt nonsense. Have you have had gay experiences in your life? Maybe a (too) close relationship with your brother dad, uncle etc? Do you like other men, prefer gay porn over straight porn? If you like gay character you are not straight.

[Anonymous No.22761356]

>>22761304
Then there's nothing really worth discussing from this. "Romance when done poorly is bad" isn't a particularly controversial statement.

[Anonymous No.22761361]

>>22761353
Behold the solipsist and pity him.

[Anonymous No.22761366]

>>22761353
>if you don't have a problem with gay characters in a book, even if they are not forced or part of an agenda, then clearly you are gay
The absolute state.

[Anonymous No.22761367]

I'm running into the wall of retarded chinese protagonists, who are the good ones? Fang Yuan, Klein, Chen Ge, and Lin Ming are the ones I remember liking

[Anonymous No.22761375]

>>22761353
ESL

[Anonymous No.22761398]

>>22761367
I like Bai Qiuran

[Anonymous No.22761399]

>>22761361
You have no reading comprehension. Several times I mentioned the audience of straight men. I was not talking just about myself but straight men in general.

>>22761366
Yes if you have no problem with gays or lgbt in books, fiction, irl then you are member of that lgbt community yourself. In other words you are either straight or a faggot of some kind.

[Anonymous No.22761406]

>>22761375
And brown too!

[Anonymous No.22761410]

>>22761375
>ESL
So faggot lovers are racist now?

[Anonymous No.22761425]

>>22761306
Moms are great and all, but I'm more of a qt aunt enjoyer. Any suggestions?

[Anonymous No.22761433]

>>22761410
They've always hated straight brown men.

[Anonymous No.22761478]

>>22761399
>Several times I mentioned the audience of straight men. I was not talking just about myself but straight men in general.
Exactly why you are a solipsist. You are so self-centered, you feel you speak for all straight men. You have been read correctly.

[Anonymous No.22761513]

>>22761478
I am an average man and not too dissimilar to other men. The thoughts I have regarding homosexuality are very similar or even exactly the same as of other straight men therefore I speak for all straight men regarding the matters of lgbt and especially homosexuality.

[Anonymous No.22761522]

>>22761306
which book gives me the most mommy for my buck (time)?

[Anonymous No.22761533]

>>22761513
Case in point, the solipsist.

[Anonymous No.22761537]

>>22761513
I don't feel like reading back through all the back and forth.
Are you saying that straight men don't mind being around faggots? Because I can tell you that we want to bash their faces in daily when we see men behave like girls.

[Anonymous No.22761556]

I don't like romance that does not appeal to (Me)...

[Anonymous No.22761559]

>>22761537
The second point (bash their faces in).

>>22761533
You are so dumb. If two or more people have same or very similar opinions can one person speak for both of them?

[Anonymous No.22761568]

>>22761537
You're participating in a sci-fi fantasy thread in the literature board on 4chan. You are the kind of girlish dweeb that got his faced bashed in by real men.

[Anonymous No.22761572]

>>22761559
You are trying to speak for an entire demographic, not one or two people.

[Anonymous No.22761574]

>>22761537
>we want to bash their faces in daily when we see men behave like girls.
Why?

[Anonymous No.22761577]

>>22760437
Ok it's truly that bad. I'm glad I stopped at the first.

[Anonymous No.22761579]

This argument is gay as fuck

[Anonymous No.22761583]

>>22761568
I read about men raping nubile women, and having other men's wives crave the MC's cock. Only true alpha men understand this.

>>22761574
We don't like faggots in Jamaica.

[Anonymous No.22761590]

>>22761572
Yes, the entire demographic of straight men. When it comes to homosexuality all straight men have the same views and opinions about it.

[Anonymous No.22761611]

>>22761556
>I don't like romance that does not appeal to (Me)...
Are you trying to be ironic or something? Because this post is too based to be true.

[Anonymous No.22761614]

>>22761398
I'll check it out, thanks

[Anonymous No.22761619]

>>22761583
>We don't like faggots in Jamaica.
Why not?

[Anonymous No.22761640]

>>22761619
Maybe because faggots are faggots

[Anonymous No.22761671]

>>22761640
What of it?

[Anonymous No.22761705]

Anyone know any good book centric youtubers that aren't complete shitlibs (at least not in their videos) or only reviews YA?

[Anonymous No.22761713]

>just finished the Unholy Consult

Did I read 7 books just to get trolled by an appendix?

[Anonymous No.22761781]

>>22761713
I'm over 50% into Darkness. When does it get gud?

[Anonymous No.22761817]

>>22761781
When you get back to Cnaiür

[Anonymous No.22761883]

>>22761713
>he didn't stop after the first book, or at least after the 3rd book... He kept on reading the cuck meme.

[Anonymous No.22761896]

>>22757120
If you want more LitRPG, but not always polished published books, I read stuff on RoyalRoad.
>Legend of Randidly Ghosthound
>Delve
>An Outcast In Another World (Subtitle: Is 'Insanity' A Racial Trait?)
>The Game at Carousel: A Horror Movie LitRPG
>Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies
>Reborn as a Demonic Tree
>There is no Epic Loot here, Only Puns.
>Everybody Loves Large Chests

[Anonymous No.22761927]

>>22761896
>>Legend of Randidly Ghosthound
okay

>>Delve
never read

>>An Outcast In Another World (Subtitle: Is 'Insanity' A Racial Trait?)
shit book with a carpet MC

>>The Game at Carousel: A Horror Movie LitRPG
never read

>>Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies
never read

>>Reborn as a Demonic Tree
will read

>>There is no Epic Loot here, Only Puns.
never read

>>Everybody Loves Large Chests
okay

[Anonymous No.22761981]

>>22761705
Thitherword.

[Anonymous No.22761986]

>>22761705
>inb4 Brittany!

[Anonymous No.22762016]

>>22760607
I've never heard of this. Looks interesting, thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.22762057]

>>22757120
Was about to post about how iron prince is so shit that nobody even complains about the pseudo-cuck plotline but someone actually did today
>>22761927
Tree book is pretty bad

[Anonymous No.22762081]

>>22761306
The War Eternal by Rob J Hayes has a mom protagonist. It takes to the forefront in book 4, but it's there in the background the entire series.

[Anonymous No.22762190]

>>22761896
>>22761927
Yeah, demonic tree IS pretty bad, still read a lot of it for reasons but it has terrible characters. Even Hyperion Evergrowing is a better tree litrpg.
I actually enjoyed binging the 120+ chapters of Elydes over the last couple of days, slowish progression and limited skill slots are a weakness of mine.

[Anonymous No.22762213]

>>22761306
Fuckin based

[Anonymous No.22762231]

>>22761425
belgariad has the archetypal fantasy aunt/ adopted mom.
>>22761522
all of these have motherhood and family as the single driving force of the narrative
Dragonsbane
Wolfblade Trilogy
Bridge of D'Arnath
Skinwalkers
Dragon Gate
Caught in Crystal
The World Gates Trilogy
>>22762081
thanks a lot anon, i don't read too much modern fantasy so your rec is appreciated.

[Anonymous No.22762240]

>>22761583
Nigger

[Anonymous No.22762242]

>>22762190
Yeah I like Elydes, stopped because I don't want to read it week by week but it's good so far.
I think the crucial thing with that is that the protagonist doesn't have some ridiculous cheat so despite there being a lot of 'grinding' scenes it still feels earned.

It's one of the only litrpgs I can think of that's good without just ignoring the litrpg format after a while (Like Calamitous Bob is good but it's basically just epic fantasy with some stats pasted in every now and then)

[Anonymous No.22762250]

>>22762242
Yeah, the only sort of cheat is the convenient super high level teachers he gets. Even the early achievements are things that privileged children are supposed to receive. I've always thought that a reincarnated person just using the advantage of an adult mind in a child body to learn magic earlier was the only unearned advantage I would give my own protagonist if I ever were to write such a story.

[Anonymous No.22762345]

>>22762016
It's been posted here a few times. I wrote about it.

[Anonymous No.22762373]

>>22756330
Finally closing in on finishing the first wheel of time book, I thought it has been entertaining enough until out of nowhere nynaeve and lan are revealed to be crushing on each other. Especially after learning about his backstory, it felt super unrealistic and took me out of the story.
He's been through so much and is like twice her age and maturity so I have a hard time believing he would even be interested.

[Anonymous No.22762423]

>>22761306
Why can't all posters, not just coomers, effortpost like you?

[Anonymous No.22762433]

Any books that involve lots of drug usage? Already read scanner darkly

[Anonymous No.22762444]

>>22762433
The Aspect-Emperor has copious amounts of quirri abuse.

[Anonymous No.22762484]

>>22762433
Barefoot in the Head (1969) honestly you can't spell new wave brtish scifi without drug abuse

[Anonymous No.22762486]

Straight men like incest, so they can't judge the sexual lives of gay men

[Anonymous No.22762557]

>>22762444
Nice trips. I really like the first Bakker series but I stopped before the third book because I got a bit confused I wasn’t reading often enough. I’ll try to finish it at some point then check that out.

>>22762484
I’ll give it a shot thanks

[Anonymous No.22762571]

>>22762486
Sir, this is a sffg thread on the lit board. If you want to talk about your love for sucking cock go do so in your containment board. We don't wanna hear it.

[Anonymous No.22762576]

>>22762444
Trips of Shining Truth.

[Anonymous No.22762593]

>>22762486
incestlovers are the most opressed race, gay men have entire sections in libraries and books shops but we can't have even a small incest section, i don't think that's fair

[Anonymous No.22762678]

Before I start Second Apocalypse does it have any female warriors?

[Anonymous No.22762836]

New
>>22762833
>>22762833
>>22762833