/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22744934]

>read critical theory
>"capitalism/modernity/rationality is bad because it leads to fascism/communism"
>ok what's your solution to capitalism/modernity/rationality
>"idk that's on you nigga we just pointed out what you need to be CRITICAL of :)"
wtf were these niggas doing

[Anonymous No.22744939]

>>22744934
>guys I'm here to uncover the power structures with help of Ford Foundation funding

[notfrompoljustcurious No.22745526]

>>22744934
tell me about the ethnicity of the frankfurt school

[Anonymous No.22745529]

>>22744934
God is the only Solution

[Anonymous No.22745531]

>>22744934
I appraise all writers by physiognomy before I even read a page of their works.

[notfrompoljustcurious No.22745534]

>>22745529
He really is.

[Anonymous No.22745535]

i dont read anything by jews
i only read credible works grounded in reality

[Anonymous No.22745536]

>>22745534
I'm pretty sure he is, totalitarianism is a night mare that must be stopped by force

[Anonymous No.22745541]

>>22745529
Amen, heathens will burn.

[Anonymous No.22745555]

>>22744934
I fucking hate how you can tell within a second of reading someone's writing whether or not they have communicated through Twitter. You have Twitter brain, OP.

[Anonymous No.22745566]

Funny how the right wingers mind is incapable of critiquing something they're generally in favor of

[Anonymous No.22745650]

These people are desperate to be seen as "important" and to participate in "important" matters

[Anonymous No.22745704]

>>22745529
Benjamin came to the same conclusion

[Anonymous No.22745843]

>>22745704
What would a communist jew know about the christian god?

[Anonymous No.22745955]

>>22744934
Well you started with the Critical theory before Marx who explains why they don't get into that. The point of Marxism isn't to craft some perfect political structure that is better or worse than anything else but rather it recognizes that whatever government we have now came into existence to maximize the amount of "good" goes towards the Bourgeois class because they're the ones currently in power. Eventually, however we see that historically this disintegrates into the lower class seizing power and creating a system that benefits them (which is what the Bourgeoisie did to the nobility). So, far be it for Marx or anyone else to try to explain to the people what system they should eventually create, but rather to simply explain the idea that this will inevitably happen.

[Anonymous No.22746585]

>>22745843
Actually a lot

[Anonymous No.22746684]

>>22745536
Doesn't sound very Christian.

[Anonymous No.22746714]

>>22744934
Marx and Engels wrote and grew up in an era of considerable political upheaval in Europe. Revolutionary and political movements sprung up all over the mainland continent espousing ideologies like liberalism, socialism, anarchism, communism, monarchism, nationalism, separatism, and everything in between. Increasing literacy made revolutionary ideologies far more digestible for former peasants while early industrialization seemed to put them in worse conditions than they had ever lived in in the past. Marx and Engels saw this as inherently unstable, and Marx developed a pretty impressive theory of history by turning Hegel on his head. According to his theory, the capitalist means and relations of production that was fast becoming ubiquitous suffered from internal contradictions which made the overthrow of the relations of production and seizure of the means of production by the workers a historical inevitability.

Fast forward through the rest of the 1800s and two world wars in the 1900s. After much regional and then global upheaval, the capitalist mode of production is alive and well in the major global superpower of the United States, as well as in its sphere of influence. Capitalism here looks as stable as it ever has. Where political systems fell apart they turned into polities like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, which were not at all what Marx had predicted. The group of Marxists that would become the Frankfurt School attempted to figure out what went wrong in Marx's thought. Whereas Marx thought it a historical certainty that the existence and nature of capitalism alone was enough to ensure its own destruction at the hands of the workers, the Frankfurt School explored ways that elements of capitalism, which Marx had ignored ("superstructure" is his term, distinct from the economic "base"), contribute to its propagation and stability.

These elements are everything that are NOT specifically the mode of production. So they wrote about culture, politics, social relations, etc, and how these influence and dominate the worker into a state wherein he is not revolutionary. That's the Frankfurt School.

[Anonymous No.22746724]

>>22745566
>generally in favor of
Fascism, the nuclear family, the patriarchy, tradition and God are good things. All of which Adorno oppose.

[Anonymous No.22746730]

>>22745650
That's a critic

[Anonymous No.22746733]

>>22744934
adorno was a communist dipshit

[Anonymous No.22746815]

>>22746733
What makes you say that?

[Anonymous No.22746856]

>>22744934
>ok what's your solution to capitalism/modernity/rationality
Nobody has offered a viable solution yet for the past 300 years or so.

[Anonymous No.22746903]

>>22744934
The solution is people who are completly foreign to the nightmare of capitalism in which we're all entrapped in by all its institutions and the power it is maintaining through lexicon of dread. Those people take control and reverse the tables.
Who are they? Afghanistan. and Islam has experience in leading all earth. jews never did, and christians are cucked. mongols turned muslims once they burned Kordoba so yeah, islam is the way to go.

[Anonymous No.22746910]

>>22746903
So how do we enable to Taliban Invasion of the United States?

[Anonymous No.22746918]

I cannot relate to readers like OP at all. I would never reject or discount my impressions of and ideas about the world (such as they are) just because they don't immediately suggest a programme for action. I would just think, 'Nice, glad I thought of that, and that my sense for life is now slightly deepened and expanded.' So if I come across someone who I think has very interesting and illuminating ways of capturing the complexity of the world, why would I reject him for a similar reason?

[Anonymous No.22746920]

>>22746918
it's a cope

[Anonymous No.22746952]

>>22746920
Surely what's cope is adapting yourself to existing conditions and justifying them as the only proper subject of philosophy. That's one of the main thrusts of Adorno's work: the critique of adaptation and of saying, 'This society around us is all there is so we should learn to reverence it and treat it as rational and just.' The kind of reflection I was talking about belongs to the bit of people's minds that they try to preserve from being snuffed out in subordination to the work grind and unimaginative trash culture. It's the bit of yourself that feels a connection to history and art and the striving they both express. Focusing on those thoughts seems like cope because of how unmovable and all-encompassing the social world that denies them is; they just seem like daydreams unrelated to learning Python and getting a mortgage. But the grimness of that inversion of importance is exactly Adorno's whole point.

[Anonymous No.22746970]

>>22746920
Surely what's cope is adapting yourself to existing conditions and justifying them as the only proper subject of philosophy. That's one of the main thrusts of Adorno's work: the critique of adaptation and of saying, 'This society around us is all there is so we should learn to reverence it and treat it as rational and just.' The kind of reflection I was talking about belongs to the bit of people's minds that they try to preserve from being snuffed out in subordination to the work grind and unimaginative trash culture. It's the bit of yourself that feels a connection to history and art and the striving they both express. Focusing on those thoughts seems like cope because of how unmovable and all-encompassing the social world that denies them is; they just seem like daydreams unrelated to learning Python and getting a mortgage. But the grimness of that inversion of importance is exactly Adorno's whole point. If you think deepening your conscious experience of life is cope, what then are you bothering to remain conscious for?

[Anonymous No.22747038]

>>22746714
It's almost like the superstructure is more important than the base. We humans ultimately can inly see the world through conceptual lenses and everything we do has some ethical reasoning behind it. Ideology could theoretically convince everyone in a country to eat nothing but grains, greens, chicken, and milk and be satisfied with it. A population like that is bound to be a significant economical advantage

[Anonymous No.22747051]

>>22746970
>It's the bit of yourself that feels a connection to history and art and the striving they both express.
What connection? Striving toward what? If you say "better society" then you might as well not answer due to the subjective nature of that statement

[Anonymous No.22747100]

>>22746903
Muslims don't have a program. If they outlined a way to build a modern, technological Islamic society then it could definitely be an answer to modernity but they still have not figured that out. Gulf States are the best example but they're secularizing which defeats the whole point of an Islamic state.

[Anonymous No.22747341]

>>22747038
>It's almost like the superstructure is more important than the base
Seems like it

[Anonymous No.22747352]

>>22746903
>Who are they? Afghanistan.
Sure thing, buddy. At the present moment there is no way out of liberalism, and the solution you've proposed only deals with it in a very superficial manner.

[Anonymous No.22747531]

>>22747352
damn the taliban became liberal because they're too used to being dirt farmers to want to spend all day in a shitty office?

[Anonymous No.22747545]

>>22747352
>Now, the men find themselves shackled with the bureaucracy of running a country as they work civilian jobs and security positions, spend too much time in traffic and on Twitter, and yearn for the tranquility of village life.
That doesn't sound very liberal to me

[Anonymous No.22747565]

>>22747545
>That doesn't sound very liberal to me
That's literally the modern liberal condition in its most condensed form.
>>22747531
They do spend all day in the shitty office because they live in an economically liberal society.
I shouldn't be surprised. People who think that Islam offers any sort of alternative to liberalism besides getting rid of the fags and trannies are too superficial to to seriously think about social issues.

[Anonymous No.22747589]

>>22747565
>>22747545
What exactly is liberal about Afghanistan?

[Anonymous No.22747856]

>>22744934
>wtf were these niggas doing
Hegelian dialectics. Critical theory and similar systems are all about trying to negate what exists, to provide an antithesis for the thesis of our culture, as to reach a superior synthesis.
Of course reality doesn't work quite like this, but religious people aren't logical.

[Anonymous No.22748427]

>>22744934
he looks like an intellectual

[Anonymous No.22748448]

>>22744939
>>22745526
These two don't mix well.

[Anonymous No.22748454]

>>22748448
Because Henry Ford was an antisemite? His foundation wasn't and Adorno got Rockefeller and US gov funding, not Ford funding.

[Anonymous No.22748458]

>>22747589
They have a private sector and they participate in the global economy.

[Anonymous No.22748472]

There is no solution. His point is showing you just how bad things are.

[Anonymous No.22748507]

>>22746903
kys tranny
(you are literally a tranny)

[Anonymous No.22748547]

>>22747038
>. We humans ultimately can inly see the world through conceptual lenses and everything we do has some ethical reasoning behind it.
Lol, lmao even. This is such a deluded and debased view, if only you know how much day to day living is not connected to any larger than life concept for every human.

[Anonymous No.22748591]

>>22748458
Neither of those things are unique to liberalism

[Anonymous No.22748597]

>>22748591
A liberalized economy is necessary to do both of those things in today's world.

[Anonymous No.22748605]

>>22748597
A liberalized economy is necessary to have a private sector? The only thing necessary for the existence of a private sector is private property.

[Anonymous No.22748613]

>>22744934
>our current ways of organization people effectively are fucking terrible
>oh yeah? well how would you do it better
>who said it can be done in a way that isn't soul crushing and horrible to the majority of people
>heh, guess that means we're stuck with corrupt pseudo monarchies of east or corrupt wanna be venice oligarchs of west
i would rather jerk off to a sock while smoking weed in some hippy commune to participate in either if i had the option without getting batoned and imprisoned for having low social credit score or getting batoned and imprisoned for not meeting society's standards and paying some cunts

the people who ask "what's better than the current shit" should start asking "should large amounts of people be subjugating in a functional way to begin with" instead of "how can we do it better?"

[Anonymous No.22748618]

>>22748605
For private entities to participate in the global economy today, it absolutely does. The type of private sector you're thinking of has been dying since industrialization and has been dead since the rise of modern globalization.

[Anonymous No.22748624]

>>22748613
This is an English board

[Anonymous No.22748627]

>>22748624
chaebol

[Anonymous No.22748639]

>>22748618
I don't think it's accurate to characterize the economy of a nation in which the overwhelming majority are medieval age dirt farmers living in tribal villages as "liberal," even if they have a major city or two that gets some international import and export.

[Anonymous No.22748644]

>>22745529
Based. We're completely lost without Him

[Anonymous No.22748668]

>>22748639
The private sector will inevitably have more influence than any of those medieval peasants could hope to have, and participate in the global economy, even to the limited extent Afghanistan has it, is very much necessary for it to continue existing as a nation-state.

[Anonymous No.22748704]

>>22745843
He and Erich Fromm were cabalaists, so they at least can consider religion.

[Anonymous No.22748710]

I blame Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.22748726]

>>22744934
>>22745529
>>22746903
>>22747352
>>22747565
The solution is either an Islamic economic system as layed out by Sadr in his Iqtisaduna
Or for the return of the Mahdi aided by the messiah

[Anonymous No.22748812]

>>22744934
>Two parent households? Fascism
>Man loving a woman? Fascism
>Children learning math at school? Fascism
>Classical Music? Fascism
>Organizational hierarchies? Fascism
>Privately owned media? Fascism
>Enlightenment? Fascism
>Christianity? Fascism
>Social conventions? Fascism
>Table manners? Fascism
Only Germans could be stupid enough to fall for this 'caust'd kike drivel

[Anonymous No.22748848]

>>22748812
>Classical Music? Fascism
what? do you know anything about adorno

[Anonymous No.22748926]

>>22745529

[Anonymous No.22749011]

>>22747856
>to provide an antithesis for the thesis of our culture, as to reach a superior synthesis
Reminder that Hegel never actually used these terms, this is a tripartite simplification of his thought. This is the one point that Zizek is surprisingly coherent on with his “coffee without cream” joke- the negative (antithesis) is not a pure negation, subtraction, etc. but actually a constitutive part of the whole. It’s not that the thesis is negated by the antithesis and thereby becomes something new/superior: The negative in this sense is a positively charged void that ADDS something to the process rather than taking it away.