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/lit/ - Literature

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22705117 No.22705117 [Reply] [Original]

>The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves
>Spoken by the villain of the story to convince Brutus
>Is proven wrong in the story

Why was Shakespeare such a faggot for fate? I have had it with this guy

>> No.22705190

>>22705117
Fate is an important concept in Tragedy as it drives the hubris -> turn to inevitability (character) function which unleashes catharsis.

We know what will happen, but don't know when and why the tragic hero will accept his fate.

The fault lays in the stars and self, and it is the turning of the self towards the stars that powers the pay off.

>> No.22705203

>>22705117
You're free to orchestrate the details in his world. Just not the end.
>Our wills and fates do so contrary run
>That our devices still are overthrown;
>Our thoughts are ours, their ends none of our own.

>> No.22705278

>>22705203
Yeah, because trying to upset the natural order of "benevolent" authoritarians is le bad and you will lose if you try. That's the message.

>> No.22705308

>>22705278
YWNBAW but you can try.

>> No.22705316

>>22705278
Lol, Marxists are retarded. Have you even read any Shakespeare with such a stupid opinion?

>> No.22705318

>>22705308
The level of brownnosing and revisionism that Shakespeare engaged in is unironically pretty damning, and if you need to accuse me of being aligned with the trans menace as a response, than go ahead.

>> No.22705326
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22705326

>>22705316
You are the marxist here if anything.

>> No.22705332

>>22705318
He was from a family of recusant Catholics. Doubt he wanted to brownnose more than necessary and just enough to keep his head.

>> No.22705707

>>22705278
>Yeah, because trying to upset the natural order of "benevolent" authoritarians is le bad and you will lose if you try.
You said it yourself: it's the natural order.
Nature has a habit of asserting itself.

>> No.22705724
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22705724

>frog poster forever
Want me to post them

>> No.22705728

>>22705318
>The level of brownnosing and revisionism that Shakespeare engaged in is unironically pretty damning
No, he was just doing what he needed to do in order to avoid arrest. Treason was taken pretty seriously in Elizabethan times, and goings-on at theatres were carefully monitored.
Also, if you think he was just a brown-noser, you clearly need to read him more attentively.
>if you need to accuse me of being aligned with the trans menace as a response, than go ahead
Dilate.

>> No.22705757

>>22705728
If Shakespeare were a brownnoser then Shylock would have converted voluntarily.

>> No.22705790

>>22705278
Eh? The Roman republicans were just as authoritative as Caesar, perhaps more so. The difference is just that they represented the interests of the patricians who were sore that Caesar was a populist

>>22705757
Shylock is persecuted clearly before the story, people spit on him and say he is vile and worthless because he lends money at interest, and then his daughter is stolen from him. Lest we forget, Shakespeare himself was a moneylender, that’s what he did with his profits from his plays, so it would be a bit foolish to presume Shakespeare can’t identify himself somewhat with Shylock’s sin which is what leads him to be treated like an animal which in turn makes him so vengeful. Shakespeare never met a Jew, they didn’t exist in England then since they had all been deported in the Middle Ages and wouldn’t be brought back until Cromwell invited them. So the usurers in his time were men like him rather than Jews.

>> No.22705896

>>22705790
If he was any serious kind of moneylender, he would have purchased more. Especially land. And he didn't. He purchased one piece of land - and it turned out to be hide out for Catholic masses. If he lent out money, it was probably informal to poor friends and actors. Whoever pushed the moneylender meme was a Jew. Shakes was a Catholic.

>> No.22705927

>>22705117
>makes a John Green reference
I didn't know Shakespeare was such a hack.

>> No.22705933

>>22705278
Same in Macbeth.