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/lit/ - Literature

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22673757 No.22673757 [Reply] [Original]

Has anyone here finished it? Thoughts on it?

>> No.22673784

>>22673757
>700 pages of nothing that can be reduced to less than 200 pages
The premise is interesting and all, but I just don't see anyone actually reading it with serious intent not going to lie.

>> No.22673806

>>22673757
I've read the whole thing. Quite lovely. I have some minor nitpicks. But overall a fine work of comparative theology. Was rather instrumental in my return to catholicism/christianity (am old millenial cradle cat, not zoomer tradfag, fwiw)

>> No.22673828

>>22673757
Was 100% worth the read

>> No.22674370

>>22673757
Read it and shill it here periodically. Took me a couple years to work through it because I’m in my 40s with kids but for me was totally worth it, was the book I needed when I needed it.
The “anon” who wrote it has a really warm and loving personality, really comes through, but also had a pretty rich knowledge of a range of subjects.
What is your intellectual/experiential background and what is your motivation for reading it? Do you have a regular spiritual practice now?

>> No.22674567

>>22674370
>was the book I needed when I needed it.
>The “anon” who wrote it has a really warm and loving personality, really comes through
This is exactly my experience.
>Took me a couple years to work through it because I’m in my 40s with kids but for me was totally worth it,
And this as well.

>>22673757
Each chapter gets progressively difficult, in my experience, starting from easy to understand and then progressing and ending in Kabbalah territory where I cannot follow the Unknown Friend. I don't mind though, each reading gets progressively deeper and I suppose I will understand what is necessary. So I may not have finished it in that sense, but I will still say it's worth it.

>> No.22674612

>curious about tarot but unsure if it's considered meddling with things I shouldn't meddle with
On the other hand God would only allow me to see what he wants me to see.

>> No.22674621

>>22674612
It uses the tarot as a tool for meditation, not divination, and the book is thoroughly Christian. It deals with a lot of non-Christian topics but follows the end of Mark where Jesus gives assurances that his followers can handle “snakes” without being bitten.

>> No.22674640

>>22673757
Tarot is a card game that's all, who the fuck would believe in that superstitious horseshit?

>> No.22674858
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22674858

>>22673757
I prefer Jodorowsky's book on the tarot

>> No.22674922

>>22674640
Unironically though, I find it funny that the woman who originally made the occult activity of the 'Tarot' and the cards, later in life converted to Catholicism and in doing so condoned her own creation.

>> No.22674931

>>22674858
Jodorowsky is a loony. That movie The Holy Mountain made absolutely no sense.

>> No.22674970

>>22674931
t. hylic

>> No.22674984

>>22674858
He’s an occultist and iirc his book is barely even occult (Wang is a good one for this), it’s more like self help therapy. I dunno, it wasn’t my thing and I felt like MotT gets into much deeper waters while still being grounded and humble.
Gareth Knight wrote a couple tarot books, one uses the four cardinal virtues to classify the trumps, I liked that one.

>> No.22675124

>>22674922

Pamela Colman Smith didn't invent the tarot. The tarot originated in Renaissance Italy as a card game and went through many iterations. We don't know where the imagery of the tarot comes from exactly; the current prevailing theory is that it may come from Medieval mystery plays.

The Tarot de Marseille (the deck written about in Medications on the Tarot) was created in 17th century France and was the first tarot deck to be used for divination. Once the tarot began to be used for divination, it quickly caught the attention of occultists such as Court de Gebelin, Comte de Mellet, Eteilla, and Eliphas Levi. They believed the tarot was a survival of ancient Egyptian mystery cults and contained their ancient teachings. They also began to syncretize it with various other strands of the occult, such as astrology and Kabbalah.

The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, an occult order in Victorian England, were influenced by these occultists and created their own tarot system. For example, they associated each card of the major arcana with a Hebrew letter and a path on the Kabbalistic tree of life, as well as either an element, planet, or zodiac sign. Arthur Edward Waite, a member of the Golden Dawn, commissioned another member, the artist Pamela Colman Smith, to create a new tarot deck based on the teachings of the Golden Dawn and their system of tarot. This deck is now known as the Rider-Waite-Smith tarot and has become the most popular tarot deck in the Anglosphere. Although Smith converted to Catholicism later in life, she and Waite were always Christian, even while they were members of the Golden Dawn. They even incorporated Christian elements and imagery in their deck. One example is the Lovers card. In the Tarot de Marseille, this card depicts a man choosing between two women. The Golden Dawn, in one of their most radical adaptions to the tarot, taught that the card should depict Perseus rescuing Andromeda. Waite and Smith, however, chose to portray an image of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden standing before the angel Raphael. And after the original Golden Dawn lodge splintered, Waite and Smith opened one with a more Christian slant.

There is no evidence that Pamela Colman Smith condemned the occult or tarot, and there is no contradiction between practicing these things and being a Christian. The majority of occultists throughout history have been Christian while simultaneously being involved in the occult, including Arthur Edward Waite and Smith herself. Seeing the occult as an alternative religion is a modern phenomenon started by figures like Aleister Crowley and Gerald Gardner. Also, like I said before, the original imagery of the tarot was likely derived from Medieval mystery plays, which were put on by the Church and depicted biblical stories and themes.

>> No.22675224

>>22675124
>There is no evidence that Pamela Colman Smith condemned the occult or tarot
Is this ChatGPT? Because if you knew anything about Catholicism and the processes of Confirmation, then you, by the Catechism, have to reject Occultism or any of the Divinational arts. Read CCC 2117.
It is clear she went to the process of Confirmation and because of that it should be known that she had to reject her past actions, or else she wouldn't convert to Catholicism. It does not matter aswell that you do not have clear written evidence that they both denied occultism, the Catechism is clear on what it says. Read CCC Part 2 Article 2 on the process of Confirmation.

>> No.22675227

>>22674984

I've read Wang's Qabalistic Tarot and Knight's Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism. I used to use the Rider-Waite-Smith and Thoth decks, but I never got anything out of Qabalistic correspondences. I don't feel like it enhances readings or adds up coherently when you look at the tarot as a whole. I made the transition to the Tarot de Marseille when I read Paul Huson's Mystical Origins of the Tarot, which explained the history of the tarot and interpreted the cards in the context of Renaissance Neoplatonism and Medieval mystery plays. He also talked about the four cardinal virtues. I haven't read the book in a while, but I believed he attributed each of the four suits and four of the major arcana cards to the virtues.

After I got into the Tarot de Marseille, I read Jodorowsky's book because I'm a fan and it's one of the most popular books on the Tarot de Marseille. After that, I read The Marseille Tarot Revealed (formerly called The Open Reading) by Yoav Ben-Dov, who studied the tarot under Jodorowsky for a number of years before splitting off and creating his own system. I mostly use Yoav Ben-Dov's system, which is less new age and self-help than Jodorowsky's, but I really like Jodorowsky's book and would still say it's my favorite. Mostly because I'm fascinated with the beliefs of mystical surrealist artists like Salvador Dali, Leonora Carrington, Remedios Varo, and Jodorowsky himself. I love getting insight into Jodorowsky's mind, even though I disagree with him a lot. I would kill for a similar book written by the others.

>> No.22675268

>>22675224
I wrote that myself. And I'm aware of the official position of the Church - that doesn't mean every Catholic adheres. Most Catholics aren't TradCath LARPers; they're normal people who attend church occasionally, take what they like out of it, and discard the rest. The Church holds that the bread and wine literally become the body and blood of Christ and that you cannot partake in the eucharist if you are in a state of mortal sin. Many, if not most, Catholics believe it's symbolic and do not go to confession before mass. I grew up in a half Irish, half Italian family in Boston before everyone left the Church due to the sex abuse scandals. This was the case with most things for the majority of people. They weren't roleplaying as people from the Middle Ages and reading Aquinas.

>> No.22675269

>>22674640
OP's book takes the symbols of the major arcana as excuses to write a collection of small essays. It has nothing to do with predicting your love life by flipping three cards.

>> No.22675309

>>22675224
>>22675268
And that's just one example. Another example is the tradition of folk saints and saint worship in South America. One of the most devoutly Catholic cultures in the world is full of people worshipping an Aztec death goddess (Santa Muerte), a convicted rapist and murderer (Juan Soldado), and many others like them as Catholic saints. They pray directly to them rather than praying for their intercession, they make offerings to them, and even build temples dedicated to them. All the while considering themselves to be Catholic and these idols to be saints. This isn't even confined to South America. My grandmother used to have a statue of Saint Anthony who she would remove the baby Jesus from until her prayers to Anthony were answered.

>> No.22675324

what are these ridiculous replies? is this a bot?

>> No.22675338

>>22675324
Probably.

>> No.22675341

>>22675268
>that doesn't mean every Catholic adheres.
doesn't matter what the individual "catholics" believe or do-- only the Magisterium of the Church is given the authority to determine what is or is not permissable to be in a right standing with the Church.

>> No.22675345
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22675345

>>22675324
Yeah, someone set up a bot to talk about tarot on a Mongolian basket weaving forum. You fags complain about the declining quality of the board, but react negatively anytime someone effortposts.

>> No.22675361

>>22675309
>All the while considering themselves to be Catholic and these idols to be saints.
doesn't matter what they think. I can myself whatever I want it doesn't make it true. Again, the Magisterium only is given the authority to define what is and is not right belief and practice, who is and who is not a catholic.

>> No.22675378

>>22675341
I'm aware. My point is that just because Pamela Colman Smith converted to Catholicism, it doesn't mean she condemned the occult or tarot.

>> No.22675382

>>22675268
>>22675309
You know you can just say that you do not understand Magisterial Infallibility and the Catholic faith instead of writing whatever the hell you wrote.

>> No.22675388

>>22675324
I would like to say so.

>> No.22675402

>>22675382
I'm aware that individual Catholics are not allowed by the Catholic Church to believe or act contrary to Church teaching. My point is that just because they're not supposed to doesn't mean they don't. Most Catholics are normal people who are casual about Catholicism. They're not terminally online zoomers who are LARPing to fill the void in their life.

>> No.22675428

>>22675402
>Following and being firm in doctrine and dogma is le LARPing
Yes it is true that so many Catholic lays' are lukewarm but with this you have made me see, response you HAVE to be either a bot or genuinely retarded.

>> No.22675485

>>22675378
then she didn't really convert

>> No.22675636

Kinda unrelated, but I've inherited Crowley's Tarot books. Never read any of them. Opinions?

>> No.22675642

>>22675636
Crowley's tarot is interesting, but he changed a lot in order to bring it into alignment with Thelema. It bears little resemblance to any historic tarot. Lon Milo Duquette's Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth tarot is a good intro. The Book of Thoth itself can be dense and difficult to understand, especially if you're not already well versed in the occult and Thelema in particular.

>> No.22675868

>>22675642
What kind of insights could I expect? What is it good for? Understanding the word? Myself? Others?

>> No.22675931

>>22675868
>What is it good for? Understanding the word? Myself? Others?
Not really in my opinion. I think something like the Tarot de Marseille or even the Rider-Waite-Smith tarot would be better suited for that. I think what makes the Book of Thoth worth reading and the Thoth tarot worth using is the fact they incorporate and syncretize almost every branch of Western esotericism, as well as some Eastern esotericism. Aleister Crowley was probably the most knowledgeable occultist of all time and he put everything he knew into his tarot: hermeticism, Gnosticism, astrology, alchemy, qabalah, ceremonial magick, Christian mysticism and esotericism, paganism, Buddhism, etc. You'll come away with a lot of knowledge about the occult and various world religions if nothing else. However, there are certainly fans of Crowley and the Thoth tarot that would say yes, it is good for understanding the world, yourself, and others.

>> No.22676043

>>22675931
Thanks. Now I'm curious. I have some superficial awareness of the systems you mentioned. Guess I'll slowly start with the first of the three books and see how it goes.

>> No.22676378

>>22675485
>>22675428
It's also against Catholic doctrine to be a gay nigger, hope you like the smell of brimstone

>> No.22676705

>>22673757
It's good but verbose. I'm not really the biggest fan of martinism but the lessons are useful.

>> No.22676784

>>22673757
Yes. It's one of my favorite books of all time - I would probably recommend reading mystical Christian texts (Sayings of Life and Light as well as Ascent of Mount Carmel by St. John of the Cross) as a light primer and make sure you know the Gospels well.

>> No.22677090
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22677090

Author does not pass physiognomy check.

I did not finish the book btw the guy loves his sentimentalism and seems the type that weeps every time he passes a mary statue

>> No.22677125

>>22674858
I mean they're not really comparable books. Jodo's book is a primer for doing readings. OP's pic has nothing to do with that.

>> No.22677181

>>22676784
How do you like John of the Cross vs St Teresa? Asked in a different thread once but never got an answer.

>> No.22677510

Is that something I need to go to confession for if I read it?

>> No.22677521

>>22677510
Confession is retarded and promotes a legalistic and pagan view of sin

>> No.22677582

>>22673757
It’s a really gay book that has nothing to do with either the tarot or any esoteric truths but if you’re christian you’ll lap it up like a retard.

>> No.22677593

>>22677582
What would you recommend instead?

>> No.22677610

>>22677593
I forget the title but it’s based on Jungian philosophy.

>> No.22677618

>>22677593
Tarot and the Archetypal Journey: The Jungian Path from Darkness to Light

>> No.22677634

>>22677618
Anything else outside of Tarots, literature you found enlightening?

>> No.22677689

>>22677634
Just like anything esoteric reading can only do so much, if you're genuinely on this path whatever you need will show up at the right time. What I found enlightening at one time I now consider garbage and vice versa but it's all necessary. Just focus on whatever you're doing at the time and when you're ready to let it go don't cling to it, whatever needs to be remembered will be.

>> No.22677741

>>22677689
That sounds vague as shit, anything a bit more concrete you could give me?

>> No.22677753

>>22677741
Kek, if you want concrete, read the bible, it'll hit you over the head, repeatedly.

>> No.22677826

>>22677753
I was born and raised in Asia the bible isnt taught here so i have no emotional attachment or opinion on it. I just appreciate different paths things to look into, some people can give you decent insight new roads, its just my hobby

>> No.22677860

Very nice thread. Thank you for effort posts, anonymous sir.


Ususally don't post / come here much anymore. But fella here has taken words from my mouth. Quite well-spoken history of such things. Good evaluations of major literature.

Yes tarot anon is very wise. Thank you for educating these loons even if they think you are a bot because they are so retarded.

I myself use Qabilistic Tarot by Wang as ref and Jodo's book as general intuitive approach.

Jung is ok. Good but not great. Jungians are blah. With rare exception.

Ya. Mystical origins is good intro if interested in history...

>t. Catholic who reads occult and has practiced divination

>> No.22677866

>forward by Balthasaar
>seen on desk of JPII
Internet catholics will say its fake and gay tho

>> No.22677881

>>22677826
I wouldn't listen to him. No one intelligent and truly spiritual individual thinks Christianity is devoid of esoteric insight (not even Jung) and no historian thinks Tarot in unrelated to Christianity either.

You ought read Bible! I live in West but I find value in Buddhist and Hindu and Daoist texts. Perhaps you will find some value in such comparative study.

Altho, in a sense, I do agree that you should mostly just follow your interests with studying religion.

>> No.22677955

>>22673784
>can't imagine people reading long works of good literature
Maybe you can stop shitposting here if so then perhaps, sir/ma'am?

>> No.22678001

>>22677881
Thank you, i have been meaning to read the bible (i bought KJV some time ago) but couldnt get around to reading it. If you have any general recommendations after studying both eastern and western tradition i'd love to hear it

>> No.22678677

>>22678001
Skip around in the Bible if ya get bored. NT is shorter and more to the point if mostly interested in Christianity. OT has much wisdom too.

If curious about antiquity and east west cross pollination of philosophy, I cannot highly recommend enough The Shape of Ancient Thought.

>> No.22678720

>>22677090
>no long nose
He looks like a Baltic/Slavic mix. Nothing wrong with that.

>> No.22678872
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22678872

>>22677955
it is Xir/Xem for your information.

>> No.22679602

I think that all occultism is LARP until you achieve contact with the astral and start sensing higher dimensions in your soul that are more real than physical reality. That's the starting point.

>> No.22679606

>>22677881
Doesn't tarot come from non-Christian origins? And isn't it originally for peasants?

>> No.22679643

>>22679606
The exact origins of the tarot are unclear. The only thing we know for certain is that it originated in Renaissance Italy as a playing card game. However, there is evidence to suggest that that lot of the original imagery of the major arcana is derived from Medieval mystery plays, which were plays put on by the Church throughout the Middle Ages into the Renaissance that depicted biblical stories and themes.

>> No.22679691

>>22675124
You seem smart can you list some good books to read on any esoteric topic?

>> No.22679717

>>22677510
Yes, confess partaking in the occult if it moves into actually doing any of this crap.

>>22677521
Then you accuse Christ because the entire sacrament was made after he called the apostles to hear and forgive the sins of the people.

>> No.22679728

>>22679602
It’s all demons. Even presuming you’re talking to “higher beings” why would they even waste time talking to you?

>>22677866
>banned from teaching and died two days before becoming a cardinal

Curious

>> No.22679893

>>22679691

I have a ton of recommendations for a ton of different esoteric topics.

I'd recommend starting with the Corpus Hermeticum, Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy, and The Key of Solomon. These, in my opinion, are the absolute most important books to read and form the backbone of Western esotericism.

The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P Hall is great. It's a book on Masonic philosophy and symbolism. Seeing as almost all strands of the modern occult are influenced by Freemasonry, it's a good idea to read it. It's widely regarded as one of the best introductions and overviews to esotericism.

I'd also highly recommend reading the works of Aleister Crowley and Israel Regardie. Their influence is vast and inescapable. The majority of occultists today draw most of their beliefs and practices from The Golden Dawn and Thelema. For Crowley, I'd recommend Liber ABA and Gems from the Equinox. For Regardie, I'd recommend The Golden Dawn and The Tree of Life.

From there, you can just choose books based on your interests.

If you're interested in tarot, I'd recommend:
>Mystical Origins of the Tarot by Paul Huson for a good semi-scholarly overview of the history of tarot, spanning from Renaissance Italy all the way to the modern day
>The Way of Tarot by Alejandro Jodorowsky and The Marseille Tarot Revealed by Yoav Ben-Dov for learning the Tarot de Marseille, which was one of the first tarot decks to be used for divination
>The Qabalistic Tarot by Robert Wang for learning the Golden Dawn and Rider-Waite-Smith system of tarot, which has become by far the most popular form of tarot
>The Book of Thoth by Aleister Crowley and Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by Lon Milo Duquette for learning the Thoth Tarot

If you're interested in Qabalah, I'd recommend:
>The Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune, which was considered to be the best book on the subject until the past few decades (it still holds up for the most part, my only complaint is that she focuses solely on the sephira and doesn't discuss the paths on the tree of life)
>Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism by Gareth Knight for a book similar to the former one, but one that also discusses the paths and other related topics
>The Chicken Qabalah of Rabbi Lamed Ben Clifford by Lon Milo Duquette, which goes more into the philosophy behind Qabalah, rather than describing the sephira and paths like the other two books do

If you're interested in astrology, I'd recommend:
>Astrology: Using the Wisdom of the Stars in Your Everyday Life by Carole Taylor for getting a hang of the basics of astrology (it is by far the best beginner's book out there)
>Hellenistic Astrology by Christopher Brennan and Ancient Astrology in Theory and Practice by Demetra George, which are excellent books that will help you delve deeper into traditional astrology (seriously, these are great - Brennan and Demetra George have done a lot to revive traditional astrology)

>> No.22679897

>>22679691
>>22679893
I could give more recommendations, but I think those are the most important and I didn't want to overwhelm you more than I probably already have.

>> No.22679954

>>22679897
I've done deep research into wikipedia so I know all those...what some obscure stuff you got

>> No.22679960

>>22679893
so have you managed to conjure up money or anything tangible

>> No.22680393
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22680393

>>22679954
Pic related

>> No.22680903
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22680903

>>22673757
Very good but from a strictly christian hermeticism perspective, the real GOAT book about tarots is Mouni Sadhu's one

>> No.22680990

>>22680393
Peladan looks like a very interesting individual.

>> No.22681057

>>22677181
I have not read enough of either. I do know Ascent of Mount Carmel and Interior Castle are the two books to read and that's it.

>> No.22681103

>>22679960
this is where it always ends with people. Fuck money that would lead to some bullshit lesson on materialism, just anything tangible at all

>> No.22681316

>>22679954
Guy who was appreciating tarot guy posts earlier back now.

Dislike those recommendations actually. Hermeticism no doubt is ofc part of key. But so too is Plato and Aristotle and much much more.

Secret Teachings however IMO is more mis/dis-information than information.

Agrippa is great but a bit beginner unfriendly. I feel something like Owen Davies is necessary to properly understand goetia a la solomonics as well. Or Stephen Skinner but he is a bit anal. Or JSK altho he is a bit of an edgelord demonologist fag.

Tarot and astrology recommendations are on point fr tho.

I would recommend the following for basics of modern esoterica / religious studies / phil of religion:

Guenon
Evola
Jung
Eliade
Corbin
Culianu
Yates
Walker
Fanger
Magee
Faivre
Hanegraaf
Asprem
Kripal

This will give you a good grasp of field and problems and the like.

Also for kabbalah, I find Aryeh Kaplan and Gerom Scholem ie actual jews much more enlightening than Fortune and Knight altho a very different approach and practically a different system. Try InnerSpace and Meditation and Kabbalah tho. Very good philosophical works.

>>22680990
Peladan book is good. Maybe check out Kremmerz too.

>>22681057
Dark Night is also v good. Why it gotta be vs anyway?

>>22681103
Chasing siddhis for power will lead to loss of siddhis -- yogic maxim

>> No.22681328

>>22680903
Mouni Sadhu is interesting author. I read his Samadhi book. Was influential on me as a youngin.

Is his tarot book about all the cards or just major arcana?

If you like Mouni Sadhu, I would also recommend Gopi Krishna's Kundalini book. Another genuine if tad dated yet v grounded take on mysticism, in particular the yogic phenomena...

>> No.22681468

>>22681316
>Why it gotta be vs anyway?
Bc phone posting. I usually see them paired, which makes sense. I like St Teresa a lot, in reviews folks say JotC is more technical/rigorous but his books are also longer and pdfs are harder to read on a phone than epubs.

>> No.22681504

>>22681468
Often paired because both are good intros and overviews to study of christian mysticism and considered fairly ortho both dox and prax within catholicism at least. Not to knock either author however. I like both. Prefer a lil more philosophical rigour than either desu however. I like speculative and systematic stuff, stuff like Eriugena and Dionysius the Areopagite, scholasticism some say of it but I find such theory useful alongside more mystical musings. Many say women mystics are more intuitive. Mystics in general I find. I dunno if that makes them less technical or rigorous per se. I myself am an intuitive thinker. Or try at least. They go hand in hand methinks. The practical and theoretical. You might also enjoy Imitations of Christ if enjoying those and then if yr in communion with a church perhaps look into the Spiritual Exercises. That's the big bad boy of catholic mysticism and its stepping stone. With the lay however I find that stuff like Eckhart and Ruusbroec and Cloud of Unknowing are more appealing to more general Christian mystic types (ie non catholics).

>> No.22682048

>>22673757
>western occultism supposedly based on egyptian occultism, predates judaism
>everything about it is jewish and is interpreted through a jewish kabbalistic lens
>all works recommended ITT are from a jewish POV
>only egyptian themes are minor glosses on the Osiris story or maybe YHWH being Seth, Hermes and Thoth seem like post hoc jews LARPing
Is there any book on occultism that's from a pre-jewish lens? Has all of that been lost or co-opted?

>> No.22682191

>>22682048
Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Apparently not. There is nothing wrong with derivative philosophies and most authors ITT are hardly Jewish. Most of it (esotericism/occultism) comes from pre-christian greece and rome. And plenty of kemetic writings are available. Altho few surviving from pre christianity. And you may wish to read some scholarly material to piece it all together.

>> No.22682215

>>22678720
he's estonian I believe

>> No.22682224

>>22682191
I am obviously ignorant or else I'd have no reason to ask others anything. The Greek and Roman stuff seem different from the kabbalistic/alchemical/hermetic/esoteric jewish tradition and I'd be interested in why you think they're the same. Something something logos? The word magick of the jews/bible doesn't seem the same as the concept of logos as order of the Greeks. Or is it something else? Explain yourself if you're not ignorant.
>scholarly material
got any sauce?

>> No.22682254

>>22682224
>>unfounded opinion guy aka bad take haver callin others ignant to troll out info
Sure whatever kang sorry da joo god hurt yr fee fees
>scholarly material
Maybe try Western Esotericism: A Guide for the Perplexed

>> No.22682435

>>22682191
most of them ARE NOT from pre-christian rome or greece. the earliest form of the emerald tablets are arabic (dated what? 500 AD?) and tarot is nowhere before the renaissance.

what we actually know of the ancients is shit like entrail examination which nobody does.

>> No.22682524

>>22682435
Plato and Aristotle and Neoplatonists have all been recommended here. Hinduism was transformed with its encounter with Buddhism just as Greeks and Romans exchanged ideas with Jews and later Christians and so on. And east and west have always synthesized as well.

Anyway, you can also always read pyramid and coffin text and speculate how they flow into hermeticism. Lubicz has cool theories. Uzdavinys too. Pythagoreanism, mystery cults, and more to examine too later in antiquity. Plus plays and the like can be source of knowledge.

There is a book called Magic Witchcraft and Ghosts in Ancient Greece which might appeal. Very scholarly.

I also like Intellectual Adventure of Ancient Man and Shape of Ancient Thought for general gestalt antiquity type thing


>no one does entrails
I think tis common in santeria for one


But yes avoid "neopaganism"

>> No.22682546

>>22682524
my main point is that roughly 95% of occult practices are based on completely made-up historical premises. we don't even know what exactly the historical pythagoras did, all we have are legends and myths made up hundreds of years after the fact. the majority of practices we have from the sumerians/egyptians/greeks are all variations of shamanic practices, not crap like tarot.

>> No.22682569

>>22682546
Dice and runes and cards have been used for divination for countless shamanic practices over countless years.

Tarot is more complex imagery but what is diff rly?

Our symbols have evolved

Archetypes are not dead statues but living gods

OP book is good mystic instruction. May not appeal to those with anti christianity biases tho. But nevertheless a head above the typical occult text


The use of shamanism as a general term is also controversial in any case. Not just cause muh raycism.

But religious diversity -- is there a universal shamanism? How is that better than a universal platonism or hinduism or whatevs?

Do we need the oldest practices?


Or just the ones that make most sense and appeal most to you?

>> No.22682582

>>22682569
You type like a fag n yer shit's all retarded

>> No.22682599

>>22682582
Stop reading radtrad and GD and Thelema BS if you wanna avoid such made upness -- tis the manosphere version of wicca new age bs

All religions are not but one holy mountain

There may be many mountains

Many paths

Many different views from the tops

Tops upon tops

And valleys as well

Why not explore forests too?

Or join in the water

Novelty hardly invalidates esoterica

That said... Roman Catholicism with Platonic/Hermetic tendencies is correct view tho :^)

>> No.22682654

>here we have the ancient practice of excelsior the gnostic magician
>actually I made it up
>look it’s all the same thing even though I blatantly lied about it

>> No.22682665

>>22682654
Why would ancient practices be better?

>Behold, you used a car so your journey is illegitimate. Should have gone on foot. Horses don't count either.

The real problem is all you fucks are reading victorian edgelords tryna create grand unifying theories instead of just accepting that no one except maybe jesus or buddha or your choice of prophet has total truth and all exoteric religions have an esoteric side which is not necessarily the same tho interreligious dialogue can be informative and anyway the esoteric and exoteric coexist and will both continue to and studying both can mutually enrich.


Y'all niggaz be fagetz fr fr ong

>> No.22682686

>>22677510
No, it's a collection of Christian essays using the Tarot cards as symbolic focuses to draw out various points. Hans Urs von Balthasar was a big fan of it.

>> No.22682700

>>22682686
Indeed. Balthasaar is also well worth reading if serious about religion and metaphysics. But mostly for the final boss after him: Ulrich.

>> No.22682721

>>22682700
>not Przywara

>> No.22682729

>>22682721
I have him on my wishlist. Any juicy insights to share?

I am halfway thru Homo Abyssus right now. It is perhaps one of the finest works of metaphysics/ontology I've ever read...

>> No.22682739

>>22673757
BTW OP: Hermitix and Weird Studies have good podcast episodes about this book. Not sure if either does book as whole tho. Just chapters IIRC.

>> No.22683579

>>22675382
nta but fuck off retard. If I were a mod I'd permaban you.

>> No.22683768

>>22673757
It's good. When I read it I had been getting into Crowley's writings but I also had some interest in Christianity (was raised protestant) and especially its similarities to neo-Platonism. By the time I finished this book it had started me well on my way to becoming a regular orthodox Catholic. When I finished it I bought a Tarot de Marseille deck to try to write some of my own meditations on the minor arcana, but I've lost most of my interest in following through with that. The sacred tradition provides many more beautiful and profound objects of meditation.

The author is attached to certain heterodoxies (I recall pre-existence of souls, reincarnation, and universal salvation), but these are easily discarded and I still find the book very spiritually helpful. As others have said, Hans Urs von Balthasar wrote positively of it. However I don't think the photo of it on JPII's desk proves that the Church secretly supports everything it says, lol.

>> No.22684852
File: 1.87 MB, 1200x2292, 220634.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22684852

>>22681328
Thanks anon, gonna download it right now!
Also i finished Samadhi a couple weeks ago and it really opened my eyes with its simplicity after years of esotericism reading and practice.
Mouni Sadhu analyzes the Major Arcana but when talking about The Wheel of Fortune he analyzes all Minor Arcana and talks about them in a very precise and interesting way