/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22648019]

>Never worked a day in his life despite speaking for the "working class"
>Let three of his children starve to death because he was too lazy to get off his ass and get a job so he could feed them
>At one time a third of the entire world shared his philosophies, but almost all of the nations that followed them have died out and vowed never to repeat the same mistake
>His ideologies have led to the deaths of tens of millions
Why should I read Marx again?

[Anonymous No.22648062]

>>22648019
Marx was actually very devoted to his family and a hard worker who spent endless hours researching.
t. right-winger

[Anonymous No.22648065]

>>22648062
Then why did he let half of them starve to death?

[Anonymous No.22648093]

>>22648065
What's the source for the claim that they died of malnutrition? Child mortality was very high in those days, especially if you lived in poverty. One died shortly after birth. One died of cancer. One died from a sudden fit of convulsions. Two from suicide. Everyone who knew him described him as a devoted father. Marx also did work for money -- as a journalist.

[Anonymous No.22648115]

>/lit/ - Politically Incorrect

[Anonymous No.22648147]

>>22648019
Marx was a dedicated economic and political theorist. If any of us tried to put the amount of effort required to do what he did into our own pursuits, any of us could achieve an equal level of fame and renown. He simply didnt do it at a traditional university with a professorship and that was likely because his views were so controversial he would have been thrown out.

[Anonymous No.22648383]

>>22648147
>If any of us tried to put the amount of effort required to do what he did into our own pursuits, any of us could achieve an equal level of fame and renown.
t. believes in the labour theory of value

[Anonymous No.22648406]

>>22648147
>If any of us tried to put the amount of effort required to do what he did into our own pursuits, any of us could achieve an equal level of fame and renown
What are you, five years old?

[Anonymous No.22648414]

writing is NOT a real job
regards, the literature board

[Anonymous No.22648416]

>>22648115
huh?

[Anonymous No.22648420]

>>22648147
I find his autistic quest admirable, he basically just studied nonstop for 40+ years. It's a shame he never finished Capital and had like a decade to respond to the early criticisms of it. Volumes 2 and 3 are disappointments relative to volume 1 from what I understand. I know Werner Sombart was critical of volume 3.

But also, who reads this shit enough to be objective about it? Either economists who want to read it as straightforward political economy or Marxists who aren't good enough at political economy to get critical perspective on it.

We'll never have another generation of Sombarts who can read it with objectivity and talent.

[Anonymous No.22648443]

>>22648115
seething

[Anonymous No.22648452]

> you don't have to work in capitalism if you don't want to, le freedom of choice
> but let's judge socialist thinkers by wether they worked or not even though that's not even the point
Double think

[Anonymous No.22648544]

The most annoying thing about Marx is how dronelike and retarded his followers are. Marxists are plague. Why did communism fail? Because of Marxists and fanboy cult worship.

>>22648019
Marx was a foreign correspondant for the New York Daily Tribune (a republican party paper). He wasn't paid well but he wasn't an idler either. He wasn't one of those retarded fetishists who worship the working class either. He was always a journalist who covered stories about land dispossed peasants and urban working conditions. The working class was his beat.

>>22648147
It's pretty incredible that a guy living out of a slum in London could achieve especially today where academics have a virtual stranglehold on non-fiction publishing.

>>22648420
Volume 2 and 3 were never complete and were edited (butchered) by Engels who was trying to build a cult around Marx after his death.

[Anonymous No.22648608]

>>22648383
Goddamn lol

[Anonymous No.22648688]

>>22648093
>Two from suicide
>Everyone who knew him described him as a devoted father.
kek

[Anonymous No.22648698]

>>22648019
>almost all of the nations that followed them have died out
Modern China considers him one of the most profound philosophers of all time and they are currently in the process of replacing the USA as the absolute global superpower, largely as a direct result of lessons learned from Marx

[Anonymous No.22648747]

>>22648698
>Modern China considers him one of the most profound philosophers of all time and they are currently in the process of replacing the USA as the absolute global superpower, largely as a direct result of lessons learned from Marx

[Anonymous No.22648756]

>>22648747
Remember the pandemic when China just decided to close down supply lines and the USA literally could not supply themselves? Yeah, I remember.

[Anonymous No.22648781]

>>22648756
Remember when China took a decade to design a ballpoint pen tip that actually works properly? Yeah, I remember.

[Anonymous No.22648783]

>>22648756
You are delusional

[Anonymous No.22648792]

>>22648062
>who spent endless hours researching.

Especially his maids pussy and how to push their spawn onto engels

[Anonymous No.22648817]

>>22648781
>>22648783
Look up battery production. Look up computer chip production. Look up steel production. China is the economic powerhouse of the world precisely because they used the lessons of Marx to allow capitalists to hang themselves with their greed and their willingness to sacrifice domestic power for profits. Denial of this is just cope from a has-been nation.

[Anonymous No.22648827]

>>22648747
Money, mah boi.

[Anonymous No.22648841]

>>22648827
>Africa and South America
Lol, oh no!

[Anonymous No.22648843]

>>22648817
>used the lessons of Marx

You mean the lessons of Deng, Zemin and Jintao who argued for free market practices

[Anonymous No.22648846]

>>22648843
Marx didn't argue for planned economy

[Anonymous No.22648848]

>>22648827
You are coping hard

[Anonymous No.22648857]

>>22648817
Everything they produce is shit. They just had a complete failure on a nuclear sub and everyone on board died. They make their buildings out of Styrofoam and they make rebar out of chalk. They watch each other burn alive in the streets and don't care. China is a complete shithole of a nation

[Anonymous No.22648863]

>>22648846
>Marx didn't argue for planned economy

So Maoists didn't use the lessons of Marx then?

[Anonymous No.22648886]

>>22648857

[Anonymous No.22648975]

>>22648857
And they sell all that shit to the USA. It's amazing that you think "the country is shitty for people" somehow cancels out the fact of global economic domination. It's a non-sequitur. All economic powerhouses become that way through the exploitation of slave labor. Again, when there is a battle for economic supremacy, will you sit smugly by and say "we have less workers die horribly!" while China cuts off the supply of batteries, computer chips, steel, plastic, and the million other things the USA has complete dependency on China for? Production lines can take YEARS to spin up, the fact is China has the US by the balls. You are confusing standards of living for power. Ironically, the high quality of life in North America is being paid for by the shift of power to China, and you're too ignorant to even see it!

[Anonymous No.22648986]

The only good reason to read Marxist philosophy is to understand the evolution of capitalism through history. It’s not the critique, it’s not the prescription of communist, it’s just understand that and how capitalism results in financialization and what specifically that means politically.

[Anonymous No.22648989]

>>22648863
Marx was not about planned OR free economy.

[Anonymous No.22648995]

>>22648986
>and what specifically that means politically
And what does that mean politically?

[Anonymous No.22649033]

Everyone here is just jealous that the dude actually wrote and got real books out

[Anonymous No.22649035]

>>22648019
No one who has like 10,000 pages of published works is lazy

[Anonymous No.22649045]

>>22648986
Marx built mostly on Adam Smith, who had many "Marxist" critiques of capitalism a hundred years earlier.

[Anonymous No.22649056]

>>22649035
>>22649033
fake

[Anonymous No.22649116]

>>22648975
lol if you say so
tl;dr

[Anonymous No.22649127]

>>22648698
Modern China isn't communist

[Anonymous No.22649134]

>>22648019
I like Marx but my God his followers are retards. As Marx himself said "If one thing is certain, it is that I am not a Marxist."

[Anonymous No.22649166]

>>22649127
Marx is literally mandatory reading for government officials in China today. The party calls itself communist. You are just repeating the most cliched lines in all of political history, "that's not real communism".

[Anonymous No.22649201]

>>22649166
But it isn't real communism, real communism would make billionaires and private property impossible. China today, despite all the hammer and sickles pasted everywhere, has about a thousand billionaires and permits private property. They loophole around this by having the businesses be "state corporations" and the businesses-men be politicians. Just because the party calls itself communist doesn't mean its true, its more of a plutocracy in reality.

[Anonymous No.22649223]

>>22649201
I take it from your decision not to address the prominence of Marx in Chinese leadership's thinking as an admission that China has in fact taken the lessons of Marx to achieve it's current position of rising power on the global stage? Whether it's "true communism", you cannot deny that it's leaders operate on explicitly Marx-informed principles.

[Anonymous No.22649234]

>>22648698
>largely as a direct result of lessons learned from Marx
Nope

[Anonymous No.22649241]

>>22649234
The CCP is literally and explicitly founded on Marxism. They open proclaim it. Denial is the ugliest form of cope.

[Anonymous No.22649242]

Why are people talking about loathsome little chinks?

[Anonymous No.22649246]

>>22649234
The CCP is literally and explicitly founded on Marxism. They openly proclaim it. Denial is the ugliest form of cope.

[Anonymous No.22649253]

>>22649242
Because China is in the process of supplanting the USA as the economic powerhouse of the world. And by "in the process", I mean they already control what really matters, supply lines.

[Anonymous No.22649269]

>>22649223
This post rests on the supposition that the Chinese government always tells the truth. If a leftist is retarded enough to actually believe this then they will never be convinced of anything that contradicts their religious conviction that Marx is right. To argue any further is completely futile.

[Anonymous No.22649284]

>>22649246
Not real communism, doesn't count, source: my sentimentality

[Anonymous No.22649296]

>>22649246
>They openly proclaim it.
we're talking about the CCP. they're not exactly super trustworthy. They can say whatever they want, but that doesn't make it true.

[Anonymous No.22649298]

China rules you faggots. They are beating the west on all these metrics: life expectancy, property ownership, obesity, drug addiction, health care costs, imprisoned citizens, deaths of despair, luxury car ownership etc etc. Cannot believe the USA outsourced their manufacturing sector to a rival nation 5x the population and thought it would work out fine. Retards. China is ascendent because they have a state that prevents a predatory oligarchy from seizing the institutions. Communism wins.

[Anonymous No.22649318]

>>22648843
>>22648863
Least gullible Ameritard. Lenin and Deng are thanking you from beyond the grave.

[Anonymous No.22649325]

>>22649298
>China under state run economy with no private property: agrarian shithole
>China after privatizing most of its economy, establishing strong property rights, and allowing free enterprise with few government restrictions besides the occasional purge: industrial superpower complete with luxury cars and gucci stores
>This proves that Marx was right
Have you actually read Marx, or even like a wikipedia article on socialism? Is your understanding of communism "authoritarian government that likes hammers and sickles"?

[Anonymous No.22649327]

>>22648688
one is a coincidence, but two is a pattern.

[Anonymous No.22649350]

>>22649325
>establishing strong property rights
In China?

[Anonymous No.22649425]

>>22649325
The overwhelming majority of China is still a shithole, anon. Stealing technology from the West was the easy part. Managing the fact they're sitting on a timebomb of having the biggest underclass in the world is the tricky part. Using tactics like domestically banning Winnie the Pooh and crying internationally about hurt feelings, while very entertaining for us Westerners, isn't going to cut it.

[Anonymous No.22649479]

>>22648989
So what lessons did they apply?

[Anonymous No.22649493]

>>22649318
>abandoning all marxist leninist economic principle le 4d chess I swears

lol k

[Anonymous No.22649497]

>>22649493
>I've never heard of the NEP
LMAO. Keep browsing Wikipedia articles, dimwit.

[Anonymous No.22649502]

>>22649350
>>22649425
>>22649479
>>22649493
>>22649497
YSK that products which have 666 in the barcode number are made much better than the other products. Theyre healthier, and they taste much better. The packaging also contains depictions of religious symbolism. I suggest you go verify this fact for yourself, if you want to be caught up to speed on the state of our hellish existence.

[Anonymous No.22649508]

>>22648019
>Let three of his children starve to death because he was too lazy to get off his ass and get a job so he could feed them
Beyond-based.

[Anonymous No.22649519]

china shills are a nice change of pace from the islamism shills, still not gonna revive /lit/ with shills tho.

[Anonymous No.22649556]

>>22649298
>China is ascendent because they have a state that prevents a predatory oligarchy from seizing the institutions

This may very well be the most uninformed sentence in the whole thread.
And mind you, this thread is filled with really fucking retarded faggots and class A nigger content.

Homo, do you even have a single idea how the CCP works?
Do you even know about the Tsinghua clique? Or the Shanghai clique? Or any relevant red prince?
Do you know why Xi Jinping had Hu Shintao - the previous state president - escorted from the premises?
What the fuck do you think these guys are doing all day?

Claiming that China - of all places - doesn't have predatory oligarchy seizing institutions is so utterly ignorant I must assume you are either fucking retarded or have never EVER read or heard about a single thing that's happening in Chinese politics.

You must be absolute blind, braindead, stupid or all of these things to make such an extremely retarded comment.

Fuck you for making me read this!
You absolute mong!

[Anonymous No.22649570]

>>22648019
>Let three of his children starve to death because he was too lazy to get off his ass and get a job so he could feed them
Beyond-based

[Anonymous No.22649590]

>>22649497
>NEP

lol
nice introductory cope
here's a hint for future discussions on the topic: 1965 Khrushchev reforms
These were the ones that made Mao shit himself, cause he feared his legacy would be wiped out in the same way.
Which was then the case.
Cause he was a retarded fag.

[Anonymous No.22649764]

>>22649590
>1965 Khrushchev reforms
Deng's reforms were nothing like those ones, smooth brain. Khrushchev did not allow private property.
>These were the ones that made Mao shit himself
You retard. Mao was concerned with Khrushchev publicly denouncing Stalin post-death because he saw himself as a Stalin-like figure. He didn't give a shit about central planning nuances.
Now, the NEP was Deng's direct inspiration, and the NEP was implemented by a famous Marxist leader/terrorist/bodybuilder who went by the name of [insert homework answer here].

[Anonymous No.22649947]

>>22649269
>>22649296
They aren't just saying it though, they are literally using the flaw in the ideology of pure greed and maximization of profits in order to entice capitalists into a system where China actually holds the true power since they can use authority to simply halt trade and supply lines when it suits them and the nations where the capitalists operate won't be able to supply them. Also, it's strikes me as absolutely hilarious that when a nation claims to be communist, and fails, the communists claim it wasn't real communism, but when a nation claims to be communist, and rapidly becomes the dominant world superpower, capitalist types claim it's not real communism. Almost like people are just ideologically committed to certain modes of governing either being right and successful or wrong and disastrous regardless of the direct and plain evidence before them. But /lit/ would never be that midwit, right?

[Anonymous No.22650014]

>>22649947
>Almost like people are just ideologically committed to certain modes of governing either being right and successful or wrong and disastrous regardless of the direct and plain evidence before them.
Meh In terms of actual economic organization, it's blatantly obvious that the standard communist model of a government ran economy (which China has almost entirely abandoned even if they retain some Marxian imagery and political ideas) is just worse than capitalism. One could argue that a mixed model where the state maintains broad control over commerce is the best of both worlds—but that's been the model in the capitalist West for decades anyway.

>Planned economy ====> stagnation
e.g. USSR, pre-Deng China
>Market system ====> economic prosperity
e.g. South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan; post-Deng China

I think that the fundamental issue lies with Marx being so completely and utterly wrong that the communism he predicted is simply never going to come about. Even the communist revolutions which did happen happened in places and times completely different from what Marx predicted, so of course the actual communist countries aren't going to match the ideologically pure utopian nonsense expected by communists. In that sense it wasn't "real" communism, but only because Marx's vision for what "real" communism is proved to be utterly divorced from reality.

[Anonymous No.22650072]

>>22650014
I think the China phenomenon goes to show the lie of free market capitalists. Consider this, the Chinese government can literally seize your company, your property, all your data and documents, everything, on no pretext whatsoever. They have a total authoritarian government, yet every international company in the world clamors to kiss the pinky ring of the CCP in order to get market access. In short, governments can exert ridiculous levels of control and capital can still operate profitably and comfortably enough for it to be worth while. Consider Nestle, who fight tooth and claw in North America to have freedom to run their business with as little government control as possible since that is, of course, automatically the best and only reasonable way to run a market! But in China, they are perfectly happy to capitulate to basically whatever the CCP's conditions are just to have access to those billion+ customers. This, perhaps, falls more in line with a Keynesian philosophy, a recognition that the government can interfere in markets to ludicrous degrees, either for the power of the party or (hypothetically) for the good of the people and business can and will carry on as normal. Either way, it goes to show that Marx was right, capitalists leverage power structures for their own benefit when they could quite clearly afford to have a more even balance of power with the workers, they just tend to accumulate enough power to not have to do that and instead exploit workers and customers alike to depress wages and inflate profit margins on sales.

[Anonymous No.22650251]

>>22648452
Not having to mandatorily work under a capitalist structure doesn’t make you immune to judgement for not working. Fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.22650270]

>>22648827
China is number 1 in trade.

U.S. is number 1 in military and economy.

Argument to be made for both.

Also, you're conveniently leaving out that the overwhelming majority of countries both past and present that have practiced Marxism have failed. The overwhelming majority of countries both past and present that have practiced capitalism have succeeded.

Also a significant amount of Neo-Marxists assert that China is not a marxist nation.

[Anonymous No.22650298]

>>22648698
Learn by example it is then. Of what NOT to do to succeed. It's a very fitting example by these standards.

[Anonymous No.22650305]

>>22649033
so did L. Ron Hubbard. Fight me.

[Anonymous No.22650456]

>>22648019
>Never worked a day in his life
I really don't get why people would go on repeating such a stupid and blatant lie.

[Anonymous No.22650458]

>>22650456
he was a lazy tard who demanded more money from his rents for doing bullshit jobs at best
a proto twittter fag

[Anonymous No.22650467]

>>22650298
The USA should learn from China that free market extremism leads to a situation where authoritarian countries can manipulate global market conditions to devalue their own currencies and consolidate manufacturing to their own country, thus exploiting the insatiable greed of profit seeking capitalists and shift all economic power (you know, actual manufacturing) out of their own home countries and into a country which is literally politically hostile to them. But I forgot "Marx bad" so you can't comprehend this political gamesmanship which is taking your lunch right out from under your own country.

[Anonymous No.22650468]

>>22648019
The amount of research and writing he did would have been extremely laborious, much harder than the "work" most people do nowadays. And I say that as someone whose views differ from Marx's immensely.

[Anonymous No.22650471]

>>22650467
kek marx has very little to do with modern china
lmao even
the USA made china with WTO's favored nation bullshit, but you may be chinese so dont be offended, ok?

[Anonymous No.22650473]

>ITT all these leftypol troons seething because their god was a trustfund baby bum who never worked a single day in his life.

[Anonymous No.22650482]

>>22648781
There's literally only two companies in the world with know how to design a ball point pen. The fact that China managed to do with without recieving any knowledge is incredible.

Like always, americans prove their retardation

[Anonymous No.22650488]

>>22650471
Why do you think Marx has little to do with modern China? It seems anons on this board have a preconceived notion of what "Marxism" is, and so when the literal leader of China literally verbatim says he has based his worldview on literal verbatim directly says motherfucking MARX, you idiots think he means Marx has nothing to do with China or he's saying Marx is important but it's a lie because... well, because China just lies, okay?! It's such a bizarre thing to be in denial about.

[Anonymous No.22650490]

>>22650473
Meh, at least it's a break from the dozen or so Christcuck threads circle jerking over some ancient dead Jew and his cannibalistic human sacrifice cult.

[Anonymous No.22650496]

>>22650490
>cannibalistic human sacrifice cult.
Communists know all too well about this in their own societies. And they dont need a god telling them to make those sacrifices, unless you count the state as a god. The one positive thing you can take from marxs ideology is that it killed more marxists than any other one.

[Anonymous No.22650498]

>>22650488
fucking kek at this comrade
indeed! so fuckin true! upvoted

[Anonymous No.22650507]

>>22648019
marxism is cringe but marx himself was very based

[Anonymous No.22650517]

>>22650498
It's like an article of faith. You can basically tell you are interacting with an idiot because they say things on the level of "it's what plants crave" when they don't have the faintest clue what they are talking about. The CCP venerates Marx as their hero. Xi Jinping routinely references Marx in his speeches. Marx is mandatory reading for government officials. But the cold war brainwashing propaganda was so powerful it's warped the minds of Americans almost a century later so that "Marx = bad and dumb" with a literal mental block from them even exploring whether they are mistaken on this subject. At a certain point it's just sad.

[Anonymous No.22650534]

>>22650488
People on this board have eaten up the "marx bad" narrative so much so that it has rotten their brains. Simplistic retards like this guy >>22650473 are all you'll ever get from Muttmericans. They'll literally suck the living cum out of the same capitalists who'll soon render them homeless, sexless, foodless etc

[Anonymous No.22650537]

>>22648093
>Marx also did work for money -- as a journalist.
This. OP and the anon you replied to are morons who never read Marx’s writings, nor others’ writings about him. I dont agree with some of his writings, but he also has socialist ideas that can work under capitalism (or in our contemporary socio-democratic petty bourgeois society).

[Anonymous No.22650540]

Communism is when mentally ill freaks want to torture you and your family to death because the "material conditions" force them to. Everything else is just hogwash to keep themselves occupied.

[Anonymous No.22650541]

>>22650517
mic drop moment

[Anonymous No.22650543]

Don't you guys just hate Marx? I mean read some of these quotes:

"The rent of land, therefore, considered as the price paid for the use of the land, is naturally a monopoly price. It is not at all proportioned to what the landlord may have laid out upon the improvement of the land, or to what he can afford to take; but to what the farmer can afford to give."

"The interest of the dealers, however, in any particular branch of trade or manufactures, is always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public. To widen the market and to narrow the competition, is always the interest of the dealers. To widen the market may frequently be agreeable enough to the interest of the public; but to narrow the competition must always be against it, and can serve only to enable the dealers, by raising their profits above what they naturally would be, to levy, for their own benefit, an absurd tax upon the rest of their fellow-citizens. The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce which comes from this order ought always to be listened to with great precaution, and ought never to be adopted till after having been long and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it."

"Consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production; and the interest of the producer ought to be attended to, only so far as it may be necessary for promoting that of the consumer."

"Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people."

"Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all."

Oops, just kidding, these are all from Adam Smith.

[Anonymous No.22650545]

>>22650543
is this meant to show that you're retarded and can't distinguish marx from smith?
wow, they are both old economists talking about goods and wages!!!!!!!!! hory SHEET

[Anonymous No.22650556]

>>22650534
Thats because marx is bad, anything that denies the right of individual or private property is unironically a shit-tier ideology for useless parasites like mentally ill troons and other wastes of society who contribute absolutely nothing. The individual has contributed more than any collective in all of human history why do you think we ended up with so many monarchies all over the world for over 5000 years you mongrel. Its human nature something you wouldnt know about. Neck urself bootlicker.
>>22650540
>Journalism
>Real work
>Hey people of the coal mine workers let me a little trust fundbaby tell me why you are suffering.
Literal retards dont understand that at the time when marxs garbage was written that the technology was very limited unlike today.

[Anonymous No.22650560]

>>22650545
The point is the very same things said by Marx were said a century earlier by a man who is regarded as "The Father of Capitalism". Smith said stuff like this: "It is the industry which is carried on for the benefit of the rich and powerful, that is principally encouraged by our mercantile system. That which is carried on for the benefit of the poor and the indigent, is too often, either neglected, or oppressed".

When connected with Marx, people howl, but when connected with Smith the same exact sentiments pass without much remark. It simply goes to show that people have little labels in their minds connected with names and are basically unable to actually consider the ideas underlying them. This is why China's obvious rise to power must be disconnected from Marx, since Marx leading to power overloads the previous programming and must be denied. It's actually morbidly fascinating to watch in a sense.

[Anonymous No.22650562]

>>22650556
i meant to reply to this >>22650537

[Anonymous No.22650563]

>>22650560
adam smith and marx breathe air guess the horseshoe theory is true

[Anonymous No.22650565]

>>22650556
Individuals with private property are incapable of working out a system of roads without a centralized authority and the concept of public property. So much for your theory of "shit-tier ideology".

[Anonymous No.22650568]

>>22650563
What an insightful comment. You are certainly interacting with the ideas I am referencing and definitely not spouting NPC level non-comments!

[Anonymous No.22650570]

>>22650568
so true!

[Anonymous No.22650571]

>>22650565
Tell that to the ancient roman emperors who ordered the roads built and the roman republic senate. Heres a hint the roads were oreded to be built by indivudals in power.

[Anonymous No.22650807]

>>22650565
>Individuals with private property are incapable of working out a system of roads without a centralized authority
This. Last time I checked most roads, water and sewage pipes etc are funded by a central authority referred to as the state, and not by “private property owners”. These same private property owners are heavily Individuals with private property are incapable of working out a system of roads without a centralized authority on a central public authority. “Corruptions” is the concept that renders all good socialist ideas useless. The debate shouldn’t be on whether or not communism, capitalism, feudalism, socialism are good or not, but on how to mitigate and minimize corruption as much as possible, and even eradicate it altogether.

[Anonymous No.22650813]

>>22650807
>These same private property owners are heavily dependent on a central authority

[Anonymous No.22650953]

>>22650467
tl;dr. Let me give you the gist of your opinion in front of facts. Don't worry, it's a short one: "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE LAMAO".

Please take notes of how to stop failing at your job and report your findings to your supervisor's subredit ya fucking china shill.

[Anonymous No.22651920]

>>22650953
kek, this is why China will win. I'm not "shilling" China, I'm pointing out they are using horrendously devious tactics to artificially manipulate global market conditions to consolidate supply lines in order to secure power over the USA and idiots like you can only hear "China... GOOD?!?!" and seethe. Your corporations are selling your country down the river but you don't care because you've been propagandized into thinking China could never overtake the USA because.... "China bad". Again, /lit/ is the biggest denizen of midwits who are literally incapable of engaging on the ideas and instead hear buzz words like "China" and "Marx" and have knee jerk automatic reactions that shut down any kind of critical thinking that may be smouldering in the remnants of their prefrontal cortex.

[Anonymous No.22652546]

all rightoids do is seethe, not understand political economics, blame jews, and lie

[Anonymous No.22652566]

>>22650571
>Heres a hint the roads were oreded to be built by indivudals in power.
>the roads were ordered to be built by the leaders at the top of the collective hierachy
>this is proof that individualism is better than collectivism and that private property rights is a rightful sacred cow
>these bad of spelling errors
why are /pol/tards like this?

[Anonymous No.22652583]

>>22650534
>They'll literally suck the living cum out of the same capitalists who'll soon render them homeless, sexless, foodless etc
Yup, in one breath they'll curse Marx to the deepest parts of hell and in the next they'll start screaming about MUH JEWS AND GLOBALISTS in the next. They're irrational retards through and through, and I'm not even a marxist.

[Anonymous No.22652608]

>>22652546
>not understand political economics, blame jews
These two are contradictory
>blame jews, and lie
These two are also contradictory

[Anonymous No.22652613]

>>22652608
None of them are, you're just a bad faith /pol/tard. Heaven and earth will sooner fall away than you will be honest and read a book.

[Anonymous No.22652616]

>>22648817
Mark my words, screencap this post. If the world ever ends, it will be because of either India or China

[Anonymous No.22652619]

>>22652613
I read the Marx-Engels Reader recently, and Marx said this in it:
>The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew.
>The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.
>Bourgeois society continuously produces the Jew from its own innards.

In fact he said a lot of racist and antisemitic things.
https://www.philosophersmag.com/opinion/30-karl-marx-s-radical-antisemitism

[Anonymous No.22652654]

>>22652619
Marx's anti-semitism is no substitute for his actual study of economics/politics, let alone the wider school of political economics in general. It is certainly no excuse for the socialism-for-fools jew blaming that goes on this website.

[Anonymous No.22652675]

>>22652654
The two are interrelated. He has the exact same reading on the Jews as Heidegger does for example:
>The question of the role of world Jewry is not a racial question, but the metaphysical question about the kind of humanity that, without any restraints, can take over the uprooting of all beings from being as its world-historical 'task.'

Jews are some of the foremost agents of capitalist deracination and the transformation of the world into an "economic zone." Both leftists and rightists hate them for that reason. Pic related is Bakunin on the Jews, so is this quote:
>This whole Jewish world, comprising a single exploiting sect, a kind of blood sucking people, a kind of organic destructive collective parasite, going beyond not only the frontiers of states, but of political opinion, this world is now, at least for the most part, at the disposal of Marx on the one hand, and of Rothschild on the other... This may seem strange. What can there be in common between socialism and a leading bank? The point is that authoritarian socialism, Marxist communism, demands a strong centralisation of the state. And where there is centralisation of the state, there must necessarily be a central bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, speculating with the Labour of the people, will be found.

[Anonymous No.22652709]

>>22652675
Despite all the words you just spammed, there is not one once of useful utility in what you have said. Anti-semitism is the retards ultimate cop-out against understanding the hundreds of years that it has taken for the world economy to arise. Jews are at best just better than you at the game of capital accumulation. Read some Braudel or Smith instead of constantly jewbaiting, faggot.

[Anonymous No.22652834]

>>22652709
I cited the two most famous and influential leftists of the last several centuries, perhaps of all time, disagreeing with you. You crying like a fag about it means nothing to me. I only care about non-retarded people who might be reading along. That's why I try to cite sources instead of just crying like a homo, like you.

The point stands: Jews are a real problem for both leftists and rightists, and Marx and Bakunin understood this perfectly well. It's simple logic. If you are concerned with identifying class relations and dynamics, and you notice that certain segments of society are more likely to enter into certain classes, or more likely to represent those classes' interests energetically, you simply state that as part of your analysis.

For example, the rising class of wealthy professional immigrants with no fixed homelands, who live in wealthy European capitals and travel constantly for education and internships and so on, but claim to be part of an oppressed minority AND also tend to promote "intersectional," non-"class reductionist" forms of leftism, is obviously relevant when discussing global capitalism's "organic intellectuals" (in Gramsci's sense) and socialist organizing. These people are your natural enemies. That's exactly what Marx, Bakunin, and Heidegger were saying about the Jews too. They are secular, "rootless," highly mobile professionals with large amounts of liquid capital, with generations of experience parasitizing economies and manipulating markets. It's only natural they would be absorbed into capitalism's overall structure and be some of its worst agents. Ultra-religious Orthodox Jews are obviously not really an issue.

Yes yes I know, you don't care, that's fine. I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to anyone reasonable who might be reading.

[Anonymous No.22652838]

>>22652709
Also I have read Braudel and Smith. Smith is a brilliant political economist, but you of all people should know that Braudel (a Jew btw) was criticized by Marxists for basically applying Marxist socio-economic structural analysis to history while removing all the actual Marxist content from it, in effect creating a bourgeois form of Marxist "scientific" historical materialism. You should read Henri Lefebvre's critiques of it.

[Anonymous No.22652840]

>>22648115
Cope

[Anonymous No.22652918]

>>22652616
"because of" in what sense? You could just as easily say it will end because of the USA and the inability for the global superpower to maintain a functional world order without selling out it's principles for cheap plastic trinkets and by doing so transfer power to shitholes like China and India.

[Anonymous No.22654242]

>>22652834
>parasitizing economies
See this is part of your post where you start showing off your retardation, and a particularly leftist variety of retardation at that, with some /pol/ subhumanity mixed in. It's where your entire argument (if you can call it that) breaks down. Please elaborate on how you believe the people you are referring to have "parasitized" economies.
>inb4 banking

[Anonymous No.22654276]

>>22651920
As an UN-ethical chinese AI shill spambot your task has failed. Go back to plebbit hellspawn.

[Anonymous No.22654421]

>>22650556
>a shit-tier ideology for useless parasites like mentally ill troons and other wastes of society who contribute absolutely nothing

>is literally brainwashed and gets all his understanding of complex political topics from memes

>internet buzzwords

You have to be 18 to pist here

[Anonymous No.22654429]

>>22648147
>Marx was a dedicated economic and political theorist.
He was part of a wave of economic thinkers in the 19th century. He was just huckstering another ill thought niche in the genre.

[Anonymous No.22654569]

>>22648827
That's because china's economy is based on shit that can be traded while the usa is based on software and designing the shit that then gets produced in china.
Also all of that chinese trade, including the oil that they import has to pass through a single very narrow strait that the usa can block at any time if they ever want china to collapse economically. China is at the mercy of the usa.
Stick to literature, anon

[Anonymous No.22654576]

>>22648019
Why did an aristocratic woman fell for an ugly bastard like Marx?

[Anonymous No.22655054]

>>22648420
>But also, who reads this shit enough to be objective about it? Either economists who want to read it as straightforward political economy or Marxists who aren't good enough at political economy to get critical perspective on it.

[Anonymous No.22655151]

>>22654242
What do you think happens to a 19th century economy transitioning from feudal agrarianism to industrial capitalism, by urbanizing and building an urban literate professional middle class of specialists, when 500,000 literate urban Jews enter the country and take over entire cities in a single generation? So that 50% of the urban populations in some areas are Jewish, 75% of the college attendees, 80%+ of certain professions like lawyer? And they soon begin to enter the government and the culture industry?

Many countries in eastern Europe had half Jewish bourgeoisies who hated the local population. I am Hungarian, I know. This isn't some theoretical thing or subtle conspiracy theory. I am not talking about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion here. Any normal history book will tell you all this.

Marx and Bakunin and everybody else saw it clearly and simply commented on it as an important factor in the development of capitalism.

[Anonymous No.22655183]

>>22654569
>while the usa is based on software and designing the shit that then gets produced in china
Nah that India and Slavic shitholes.

USA is based on owning the rights to all that shit and that's basically it.

>Also all of that chinese trade, including the oil that they import has to pass through a single very narrow strait that the usa can block at any time if they ever want china to collapse economically. China is at the mercy of the usa.
1. USA can't block it, Egypt can, they nationalized it. We've already had a war about this shit before you were born, US specifically intervened because it turns out that allowing Egyptians, who depend on the canal and it's tariffs, to own the canal and keeping it running smoothly is better than having nobody use the canal that the US can easily close whenever they want.
2. Russians have opened a permanent, all-year sea route through the Arctic this year and are advertising it as an alternative to the Suez. It won't work on it's own, but it totally will work if it turns out that US can close the Suez whenever they want to.

[Anonymous No.22655196]

>>22655183
>>22654569
Most of that shipping doesn't even go through Suez, it's only really used for China shipping to Europe and North Africa. Which is very important, or at least it used to be, but European markets are not growing anymore, in large part due to Europeans refusing to breed. meanwhile Africa, South America, SEA and other similar shitholes do manage to grow, and they are actively becoming more important as markets for Chinese goods.

Unfortunately it seems like the West has fallen. Millions must die.

[Anonymous No.22655232]

>>22655196
>Europeans refusing to breed
What causes this? Falling testosterone rates?