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22643228 No.22643228 [Reply] [Original]

Read
Suttas: esp atthakavagga
Nagarjuna
Aryadeva
Buddhadasa

Avoid sectarianism. Avoid systemization (abhidhamma) or ritualism (pure land).

Embrace the Dhamma

>> No.22643451

Pure Land is cool though. Fascinating history and Shinran is an incredible figure.

>> No.22643974

>>22643228
Should I get good at focusing on the breath before attempting any kind of vipassana?

>> No.22644008

>>22643228
I have a question about Nagarjuna’s emptiness. From what I understand, it must be knowable somewhat, as doctrine, but interestingly its notion only tells us what it is not (“not without” time, cause, etc.) rather than being what it is. Is it itself included in what it is not?

>> No.22644073

>>22643974
Try transcendental meditation (look up Benson's version or Acem) for 60-90 days and read Eliade's book on Yoga

>> No.22644106

>>22644073
I'm talking about Buddhist meditation

>> No.22644120

>>22644106
Breath meditation is interchangeable with mantra meditation early on in my opinion, the point is to learn to meditate generally. Eliade's yoga book is about meditation in general in Indic traditions, including Buddhism and Tantra. It has some helpful metaphors for understanding initial technique and the purposes of meditation early on. I think it's important that people learn these things before doing vipassana and especially before contemplative meditation. Most westerners do not know how to meditate at all. It takes years for most to do it properly even at a monastery with teachers.

>> No.22644125

>>22644120
I see, thank you. So the idea is to first and foremost be able to master concentration before even attempting insight practices.
What's the difference between vipassana and what you call contemplative meditation?

>> No.22644538

>>22644008
In a way, the emptiness of emptiness is an important concept in madhyamaka, you shouldn't reify emptiness and doing it "a thing"

>> No.22645327

>>22643228
Thanks for the fork bro.

>> No.22646570

>>22643974
How to meditate by yuttadhammo bhikku is all you really need

Mindfulness in plain English by bhante G is decent
With each and every breath by thanissaro is also good but probably once you've started

>> No.22646718

>>22644538
it's impossible not to reify emptiness since it was created to be deified in the first place in order to cram back a true nature into buddhism

>> No.22646720

>>22644120
>>Breath meditation is interchangeable with mantra meditation early on in my opinion,
Mantra do not work in Buddhism. Mantra are only a hindu thing only.

>> No.22646841

>>22646718
If you understand Nagarjuna properly you don't reify.

Sunyata is indescribable and defies logic and language. Not an entity or a tangible. It is the conclusion from negations

>> No.22646987

>>22643228
what's wrong with abhidhamma? seems like you're FILTERED

>> No.22647220

Intellectual reasoning, in Eastern Philosophy in general, is considered an exercise in reaching the limits of the intellect and cutting down doubts - the truth is ineffable (Anirvachaniya) and has a noetic quality to it.

This is accepted by both the Madhyamaka Tradition (Shunyata of Shunyata) and the Advaita Vedanta tradition (see Brahma Sutra on Tarkapratishtha / read Khandanakhandakhadya of Sriharsha where he explicitly says the Shunyavadis actually got it right!)

>> No.22647344

>>22646987
Abhidhamma is not Buddhavacana.

>> No.22647357

Just do lovingkindness bro. Read the path to nibbana by david johnson

>> No.22648403

>>22646720
>what is vajrayana

>> No.22648437

>>22644008
>but interestingly its notion only tells us what it is not (“not without” time, cause, etc.)
Because its empty

>rather than being what it is
It isn't anything, its empty

>> No.22648718

>>22643228
I don'tknow anything about buddhism, anons. how would a vietnamese child be gradually introduced to it by his parents?

In Christianity, there is a beatitude which goes, the meek shall inherit the earth, which is really originally, those who help themselves shall inherit the earth, where helping yourself is implied as a prerequisite to helping others. this in turn references an earlier pagan idiom where zeus smiles on those who do things on their own without needing a charitable hand, and is a bit of an inversion of it as the pagan sense might have aquired a slave-master morality subtext meant to be contravened by gospel, or so i think. how does a buddhist parent gradually induce a realizatio, in his charge, of the pettiness of the world and the necessariness of acting in a specific way? clearly you can't just take a 7-year-old and say, "figure it out on your own lol, yolo," right?

>> No.22648758

>>22648718
Same way those who felt the call used to enter monasteries

>> No.22649562

>>22648758
is there something between the moral training of guided self-control (monastic trafition) and absence of moral training? do they have things like catholic schools where nuns beat you wig clubs (jk but you get what i mean)? i know india has something tlile this, but it is rare and more tied to general brahmin-derivrd mysticism than buddhism or hinduism (i presume they also have hindu religious education in some schools, but that would veer far from what i'm thinking about).

now that i think about it, martial arts is just as valid as moral education in such a school environment, i wonder why nobody does that....

>> No.22649599
File: 401 KB, 1284x844, buddha.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22649599

I haven't looked into this myself, but can someone tell me if there is any truth in pic or is it made up?

>> No.22649696

>>22649599
https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Thirty-two_major_marks_of_a_buddha
https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Eighty_minor_marks_of_a_buddha

>> No.22649766

>>22643228
What’s the consensus on Yogacara?

>> No.22649808

>>22643228
>Avoid sectarianism. Avoid systemization (abhidhamma) or ritualism (pure land).
Why

>> No.22650189

>>22643228
Not my ass studying Tibetan and learning to do heretical buddhist practices

>> No.22650198

>>22643974
Just enter the jhanas bro lmao.
>>22644120
Only the jhanas matter. These can be experienced even as a novice meditator. In fact, the best practice is to practice outside of meditation.

If you are in great pain. Fasting, grieving, etc. then this process becomes easier. Train your mind to sense when it is grasping and then let go.

>> No.22650201

>>22648403
Heresy

>> No.22650346

In the beginning the Buddha said desire is the cause of suffering. This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move

>> No.22650361

>>22650198
Give me some reads on how to enter the jhanas, please

>> No.22650427

>>22643228
didn't the buddha both endorse the use of ritual and praise amitabha?

>> No.22650539

>>22650427
No on the contrary, rituals are sterile to get enlightened, and the buddha never heard the word ''amitabha'' because it was created centuries after his death

>> No.22650548

>>22650539
https://www.reddit.com/r/WrongBuddhism/comments/131nkfm/misconceptions_buddha_was_against_rituals/

>> No.22650585

>>22650548
That's one heck of a shitpost. Where are the references

>> No.22650594

>>22650585
For example, in the Sutta Pitaka, the Buddha encouraged his followers to observe the Uposatha day. Additionally, in all the traditions, there are numerous rituals and ceremonies that are considered beneficial for one's buddhist progress.

Buddha himself taught us about how to contact or seek help from bodhisattvas, which requires and involved many diverse selections of rituals, among which is chanting

>> No.22651102

>>22643228
>avoid sectarianism
>avoid the pure land sect
???

>> No.22651156

>>22650594
that's completely false and chanting is at best tolerated since it's on the verge of singing and the Uposatha day is not a ritual lol

>> No.22651452

>>22650361
>>22647357

>> No.22651623

>meditation
Why would I sit there and do nothing when I can go and do stuff?

>> No.22651646

I'm convinced that all one needs to be a Buddhist is the Dhammapada and everything else is fairy tales and fan fiction.
Dhammapada is the only one that actually has any real applicable meat to it that would guide one in life.

>> No.22652430

Buddha was pretty systematic though. In what sense did he not build a system?

>> No.22652434

>>22651646
Buddha got real deep into the esoteric nonsense, the Dhammapada is like an elevator pitch in many ways.

>> No.22652442

>>22651623
Congrats, you are enlightened! Read the Ashtavakra Gita!

>> No.22652617

>>22643228

I've been pondering this thread of thought of late which looks something like this:

* Any undertaking should be carried out so to achieve a particular good for oneself:

Otherwise why do the task or wish for it to happen if not for the fulfillment of one's own idea of what is good for self.
(Doing something against one's own good is simply stupid, any organism wishes to persist on and have what they wish for.)

When there are no problems agents start to search for conflicts in the existing environment.
(When there are no problems in the existing environment agents start to search for conflicts in the environments that could theoretically exist?)

Agents appear to possess an ability to always see imperfections in things (I think this is what is behind the desire for always wanting an even "better" good for oneself).

It would appear that in order for one to attain happiness one must stop wanting "perfect" and settle for "ok".
(But this has all sort's of [negative] implications)
(This is simply not possible to TRULY achieve: you can give up your wants, but there is no real way to settle your wants once and for all:

"If you can never fulfill the function it, abandon it altogether, cut it away from your entity (self).":

But I am most afraid of uncertainty that comes with relinquishing my wants. If I no longer pursue the goals envisioned by my wants, why should I try in life at all? I would then live in a barrel while knowing fully well that I could manifest my will much more broadly and.. "meaningfully"?
What if I give up the desire to manifest my will as well?)

So here's what I wanted to ask you anons who are familiar with Buddhist teachings:
"What is Buddism's stance on me giving up the desire to manifest my will?"

Shouldn't I manifest my will in order to improve my karma?

>> No.22652737

>>22652617
Buddhism is literally about murdering your will, as it states desire is the very root of suffering. This is why original Buddhism is about becoming an ascetic.

Bringing in stuff from other traditions, with end of the egoic will, comes alignment with your higher principle, your sufficient reason, and it is that which wills in your stead, not you. The are levels to that state: at the highest ones, you can blurt out the Sermon on the Mount, which I know was improvised on the spot.

But yeah, the spiritual quest is about murdering you in the end.

>> No.22652992

>>22652737
What do you mean by
> alignment with your higher principle, your sufficient reason, and it is that which wills in your stead
?

I just don't see how (and MOST IMPORTANTLY "why") I would direct my actions towards a certain goal if I have given up the ability that was responsible for motivating me to achieve that goal?

If, say, I give up my will to attain money, pleasure, status, etc.., what should the "sufficient reason" set before me as my goal? Mere senseless existence like that of a grazing cattle? Work, eat, sleep, repeat?

> "Do good in the meanwhile"
Do you mean a scenario where, after giving up my egotistical will, I set before me, for example, the desire/wish/want to rid all people on earth of hunger. Is this what you mean by "alignment with your higher principle"?
It still is a desire, but now aimed not at me but at the interests of many. Is this what Buddhism is all about then? For each to replace their individual aspirations with the interests of many?

If not, then comes that "MOST IMPORTANTLY" I mentioned above of "why should I continue on living if, after giving up my personal motivations (my desire to manifest my will), my life now appears only as a waste of time? (since I have no purpose [which would make sense] set before me to achieve)"

Since, if Buddhims is about freeing oneself from "self" (which necessarily implies the setting of some new purpose for oneself), then it can be rephrased as being about either dedicating your life to the interests of the world or about leaving the world (since I no longer possess any motivation to continue my existence here).

>> No.22653483

>>22643228
Noh plays are the best thing ever come out of Buddhism

>> No.22653508
File: 294 KB, 1920x1080, 1637816480004.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22653508

>>22652737
>desire is the very root of suffering
it's ignorance, which makes your misconception all the more funny

>> No.22653702

>>22652992

> what should the "sufficient reason" set before me as my goal?

You don't know, because you don't know what your sufficient reason wants. They speak of surrender a lot because of this.

A Buddha does not become a plant: they are driven, and quite hard, by something higher instead.

Spirituality is the quest to be obliterated by the truth. That is not the end, instead it truly begins when that has happened.

>> No.22653708

>>22653508
Nirvana means blown out. It is when desire ends, that suffering ends, though granted, Buddha did teach the whole mess starts through ignorance.

>> No.22654807

Bump