Platonic Sources of Genesis

[Anonymous No.22636315]

The Garden of Eden was a re-telling of Plato's Atlantis myth from Timaeus-Critias. The Nephilim came from the marriage of Posiden and the mortal Cleito in Critias. The destruction of Atlantis by Zeus in Critias for moral reasons became the Noahide flood which added a moral gloss to existant flood myths. Russell Gmirkin explains all:
https://youtu.be/SZvzyaCocss?t=3797

[Anonymous No.22636317]

The Hebrew Pentateuch was written in 273BC in Alexandria using the resources of the library of Alexandria at the same time as the Greek Septuagint was produced by the same group. It was a deliberate effort to follows Plato's instructions in the Republic and Laws to create a state myth to organise and control the Jewish polity, and transformed the Jews from disparate Canaanite polytheists, into Platonic monotheists with a concrete and distinct identity.
>Manetho & Exodus, Berossus & Genesis: Hellenistic History of The Hebrew Bible - Russell Gmirkin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDGBxoCG6BA
>How Old Is The Hebrew Bible - Russell Gmirkin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQqv9oQCww
>How old is the Hebrew Bible? - Part 2 Russell Gmirkin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bd8MU4G6bU

[Anonymous No.22636324]

The character of Pre-Hellenistic Judaism is known through the Elephantine papyri (~450-400BC), a collection of texts from a Jewish outpost in upper Egypt that build their own polythestic temple to Yahweh and other Canaanite gods, consulted the temple in Jerusalem on correct practices, and held a proto-Passover fast. But "unacquainted with authoritative Mosaic writings or written laws":
>The Elephantine papyri of ca. 450-400 bce give provide strong contemporary evidence for the character of Judaism as practiced late into the Persian Era. These archives of letters (and ostraca) from the Jewish military colony of Elephantine, an Egyptian southern border fortress located just below the First Cataract of the Nile, attest to a thriving Judaism in Egypt with their own temple but no Aaronic priesthood, a Judaism without scriptures, a Judaism which accommodated polytheism, a Judaism with no knowledge of Abraham, Moses, or any other figure known from the Pentateuch or Hebrew Bible (as shown by the absence of these famous figures from the many Jewish names found in the archives). The Jews of Elephantine celebrated a purely agricultural Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread (TAD A4.1) with no associated traditions regarding Moses or Exodus.

>They possessed a seven day week, but no sabbath of rest, as shown by one ostraca that enjoined an employee to offload a boat full of vegetables on the sabbath on pain of death (TAD D7.16.1-5). These Jews deferred to the authority of Jewish priests from Jerusalem, with whom they consulted on religious matters, but biblical writings never come into play: only what Wellhausen called Oral Torah, authoritative priestly rulings that did not involve written legal codes. The Samarian papyri of Wadi Daliyeh, dating from ca. 375 to 335 bce, at the dawn of the Hellenistic Era, give a similar, though more limited picture: famous names from the Pentateuch are similarly absent.

>Contrast with the heavy representation of Pentateuchal names in the second century inscriptions from Mount Gerizim or the book of 1 Maccabees, during later times when the biblical text was mined for children’s names. It seems apparent that Judaism prior to the Hellenistic Era, what I would describe as pre-biblical Judaism, was unacquainted with authoritative Mosaic writings or written laws.

https://vridar.org/tag/gmirkin-plato-and-creation-of-hebrew-bible/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephantine_papyri_and_ostraca

[Anonymous No.22636329]

>>22636315
>>22636317
that's the most ridiculous and insane idea i've ever heard

[Anonymous No.22636331]

>>22636315
I'm not going to watch your videos, Russell.

[Anonymous No.22636332]

The Hellenistic dating of the Pentateuch is demonstrated by it's reliance on Hellenistic works
>literary dependence of Gen 1-11 on Berossus’s Babyloniaca (278 BCE)
>literary dependence of the Exodus story on Manetho’s Aegyptiaca (ca. 285-280 BCE)
Both of which were availiable to the Septuagint authors at the library off Alexandria in 273BC.

Moses began as a fictional Egyptian boast in Manetho, that he was an Egyptian colonist amongst other Egyptian colonist who went out from Egypt and founded the civilisations of the world. Jewish writer repurposed the story to create their own national myth for an envisaged Platonic theocratic state. Akin to Romans claiming descent from fleeing Trojans borrowed from Homer.

Berossus’s Babyloniaca provided a collaction and summary of Near Eastern creation myths that could be repurposed and synthesised alongside Timaeus & Critias to produce a new mythic history of the world.

>"Gmirkin Model" and Septuagint Priority (3m57s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awg52anmTb8
https://vridar.org/2012/12/27/the-books-of-moses-unknown-300-years-before-christ/
https://vridar.org/2012/12/30/why-the-books-of-moses-should-be-dated-270-bce-clue-rabbits/

[Anonymous No.22636340]

>>22636324
I’ve always found this the most interesting thing. Judaism was very different than what we think

[Anonymous No.22636370]

>>22636331
Jimmy James Russell and Tom Rowsell are the best

Youre just getting your jimmies rustled eh

[Anonymous No.22636379]

>>22636315
Another anti chrisitian meme theory based on a stupid idea and extrapolated as far as possible because controversy creates cash.

[Anonymous No.22636383]

>>22636379
Rebuttal: Not Found

[Anonymous No.22636422]

>>22636315
Genesis has a strong influence from Babylonian and Caanan mythology, which shouldn’t be surprising. The waters above and below mirror the story of Tiamat (and actually explain it better than the whacky cosmology from the Bible; the two waters are salt and sweet water). The dragon theme is also inspired by this. The Bible mentions several caananite gods and Elohim is likely influenced by Baal and other localized gods (the whole idea of going up on a mountain to hear god comes from the idea gods live in such places).
Specific myths like the flood and Noah building an ark is reproduced in detail on clay tablets predating the Bible. Down to details about instructions on the size of the boat, animals by two, sending out a bird as the waters recede.

While there is certainly an influence from hellenism it’s stronger in the NT as the people writing it down were primarily influenced by greek culture. This in turn explains some critical errors as their edition of the OT texts had translation errors in greek (notably young woman turned into virgin, so that whole mess is just a misunderstanding and attempt to make Jesus fit an imaginary prophecy).
The Jewish myths being influenced by or even deriving wholesale from their contemporaries shouldn’t be surprising. It’s only because we’re fed the idea that they did something entirely new and independent people resist it. Of course if you want to believe it was directly inspired by God and is The Truth there’s some problems accepting they got handmedown mythology and errors.

[Anonymous No.22636481]

>>22636315
You can find the same ideas of Original Sin in Book II of The Republic, with the transition from the city of sows to the city of relishes.

[Anonymous No.22636530]

>>22636379
>bitching
>and moaning
Cry more faggot

Thats like whining that Jordan Peterson talks about the Bible without being a Christian himself

[Anonymous No.22636541]

>>22636315
Didn’t God make humans before plants in the Timaeus?

[Anonymous No.22636553]

>>22636379
How is it anti-christian? Isn't the whole point of the christian doctrine that it is all myths as they truly happened, the culmination of which is Jesus "the myth made flesh" Christ?

[Anonymous No.22637455]

>>22636317
this seems rather idiotic if you use the common sense knowledge that Greece and Rome were still pagans with many gods, Zeus being one of many. but I’ll watch your little video

[Anonymous No.22637485]

>>22637455
>hurr plato is greek so his beliefs = rest of greece's
I hate the confidently retarded.

[Anonymous No.22637498]

>>22636315
>>22636317
>>22636324
>>22636332
How do the Jews go from accepting an apparently completely invented cosmology, mythos, and legal code just presented by Jews from Alexandria, and freak out over Hellenistic culture in Judea in about a century? The source hypotheses suggesting emphasizing and building around Josiah's "discovery" of Deuteronomy after the Persians let the Jews return makes better sense, since it's a period perfect for the establishment of a new tradition collated from the beliefs of both Judahites and descendents of the collapse of Israel by Assyria, informed by collapse of Judah by Babylon. With this Greek hypothesis, there's no account for why everyone back in Judah would be primed to go, "yeah, this sounds like our history".

[Anonymous No.22637524]

>>22636315
I don't know how it's only a handful of scholars dealing with this subject when every time I read the Greeks I see more that the Bible rabbis lifted directly from them. I was just reading from a volume called Plato's Selected Myths and in Gorgias Socartes is talking about something akin to hell:
>The concluding myth - though Socrates prefers to call it a true Logos (that is, argument) - reinforces the thesis that justice is the sure route to happiness. Divinely appointed judges have ever sent men, on their death, either to the Isles of the Blessed or to punishment in Tartarus. But in Cronus' time the judges made errors, misled by outward appearances.(...)To remedy this, Zeus, decreed that men should be judged naked, by naked judges; in other words, the soul is tested(...)

>Grim punishment awaits the wicked, to benefit the curable, but, for the incurable, as a warning to others.(...)The story of eternal damnation for the unjust may indeed seem, as Socartes concedes, like an old wives' tale designed to terrify children.

And then I'm reading the fragments of Porphyry and he's talking about how Christians are the worst kind of sophists because their old wives' tales are designed to trick only the most gullible and children. I don't understand how the pieces can fall into place so easily with even a cursory reading of the Greeks and the Bible, while modern scholars seem oblivious.
This is the kind of thing I'd think humanities scholars would be all over, cause atheists love to bash on Christians but their arguments have never incorporated this research. It deflates Christianity and shows it as the propagandistic technology it is.
I'm not sure how much I can emphasize how massive this is. The cultural paradigm in which we live is essentially the shadow drama in Plato's cave. I feel impossibly let down by the individuals of the academic establishment.

[Anonymous No.22637545]

>>22637524
Nothing like a hell of punishments is in the Hebrew bible. New Testament period writings and just before are a different story.

[Anonymous No.22637554]

>>22636422
>Specific myths like the flood and Noah building an ark is reproduced in detail on clay tablets predating the Bible. Down to details about instructions on the size of the boat, animals by two, sending out a bird as the waters recede.
Well, first of all that could be brushed off with saying that other peoples also knew of the flood as it was a big event. The Bible doesn't claim that it is the only and earliest source of this specific story.

Second of all, I think you made that up or it's otherwise utter bullcrap.

[Anonymous No.22637688]

>>22637554
He's referring to tablet XI of the Epic of Gilgamesh which contains a flood narrative very close to the Noah story. I don't see anything about numbers of animals, but there are specifications over how the ship is built, its size, the fact that animals are brought on, that the flood is a punishment of the gods for certain wrongdoings of men, that the figure saved by the gods stands out from men, and that he sends a dove and raven to check if the waters have receded. This is far from just made up.