[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 187 KB, 868x960, Corporate greed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2258744 No.2258744 [Reply] [Original]

Pessimism or Optimism. Which is the lesser of two evils?

>> No.2258749

Optimism leads you to violent hedonism, pessimism leads you to violent antinatalism.

Probably optimism.

>> No.2258752

>>2258744
Optimism is great.
Pessimism is generally the way the world works.

>> No.2258756

>>2258744

A cynical pessimism if you're a man or a naive optimism if your're a women.

>> No.2258759

>>2258752

I don't think so anymore. I think that we are living in an ever increasingly modernised and complex world. Pessimism seems to put everything into a nice little area, much like optimism, but it's been labelled "realistic". Optimisim wouldn't get such a bad rap if it wasn't linked to the whole idea of a benevolent perfect God who created a perfect world. We'll evolve out of pessimism just like optimism, however I hope it will be a more pragmatic philosophy.

>> No.2258760

pessimism is giving up. pessimism is for quiters.

>> No.2258763

Voltaire or Leibniz?

>> No.2258769

>>2258763

I had this dilemma while reading Candide.

>> No.2258771

"Optimism is cowardice".

>> No.2258774

>>2258771

Isn't pessimism equally so?

>> No.2258777

>>2258771
of what?

>> No.2258776

>>2258774

Might be. Neither is absolute.

>> No.2258779

>>2258774

yes, but one can get a better grasp of the way the world works through pessimism.

>> No.2258792

>>2258763
I've read candide before, and I liked it, but I didn't quite understand the whole Leibniz/Voltaire situation that was alluded to in the footnotes. What did Leibniz believe? As for Voltaire, I honestly only know that he was a strong believer in religious toleration and deism.

>> No.2258797

I am a pessimist so pessimism is the lesser of two evils.

>> No.2258803

Optimism, pessimists are annoying and depressing. Optimists can be annoying, but at least they aren't depressing, and they aren't quitters.

>> No.2258806

>>2258803
how the fuck are pessismists quitters? you holier than thou optimisitic piece of shit

>> No.2258807

>>2258803
you're annoying you dumb fuck

>> No.2258809
File: 100 KB, 336x554, optimist-or-pessimist-repaired-which-are-you-demotivational-poster-1256758482[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2258809

Pessimism.
Optimists get disappointed a lot, pessimist have pleasant surprises everywhere.

>> No.2258810

>>2258792
Liebniz proposed that this world is the best of all worlds due to God's infinite power, love, and knowledge. Each of these factors create a check-and-balance (this is kind of reductive, but I'm using the analogy in lieu of a very long explanation) of God's qualities. His power created the universe, but his love made it perfect for us, and his knowledge knew that perfections must have balances, i.e. order and entropy.
Voltaire thought this was a thoroughly ridiculous idea, and he ridiculed it thoroughly.

>> No.2258815

>>2258809

I am a realist, cause whoever took that pic is getting laid tonight, regardless of her cup size.

>> No.2258811

Optimism, you feel down in the dumps less of the time.

>> No.2258812

As a pessimist I say that optimism is better.
As an optimist I'd probably say that optimism is better.

>> No.2258818

>>2258809
my boner doesn't care.

>> No.2258824
File: 15 KB, 300x300, 1323799171143.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2258824

I don't get to choose, I'm a pessimist, I can't help it.

I think optimism is better, but I can't reach for it in any way. That's because I'm a pessimist and why I'm a pessimist.

At the same time, being a pessimist is who I am and being true to that is somehow good in my vision.

>> No.2258834

>>2258815
I am a pedant and would like to point out that whoever took that pic may have gotten laid THAT night, but we know nothing about what he's doing tonight.

>> No.2258850
File: 232 KB, 834x1285, diogenes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2258850

It depends wholly on the kind of optimism or pessimism. Pessimism that spoils every bit of joy is horrible, pessimism that discourages you to do dumb shit (talentless people that still feel the need to audition on national television for some kind of talentshow come to mind) can be pretty handy.

Having low expectations of life of life in general can work out pretty well, as you will rarely be disappointed. And if things do not work out, it doesn't hit you as hard since you were expecting it.

Optimism is nice if it keeps you happy and going, but it sucks if it makes you get disappointed a lot or actually hurt yourself (not calculating risks as you should, irresponsible behaviour). Optimists are the kind of people that go to jail because they weren't picky enough about choosing the right getaway driver.

So a sunny disposition is nice, but expecting unpleasant outcomes is practical and helps too.

As for the philosophical version, as in judging the whole of existence as either good or bad, both are pretty ridiculous. But if I had to choose I would rather live in a world I would rather feel existence as worthwhile and generally good.

Of course the most logical is a kind of realism where one realizes the whole of existence can't readily be judged for value by someone who has no experience outside existence. It's actually impossible to aesthetically judge the color blue is it's the only one you've ever seen. The same goes for a evaluation of existence.

>> No.2258854

>>2258744
>Corporate greed.jpg
Corporations aren't actually greedy, unless you mean it metaphorically in which case that's a dull metaphor. Point being, that what corporations do has nothing to do with greed and everything to do with necessity.

>Which is the lesser of two evils?
Don't see why either has to be evil. It's contextual as to which is preferred. I think a lot depends on your age and station. Generally, optimism is more befitting of youth than pessimism. That's about all I can say, because there's a lot of interpretation as to what optimism and pessimism actually are and which is better depends a lot on definition and context.
I think an optimistic American looks a lot different to an optimistic Englishman, and the same for pessimism.


>>2258749
>Optimism leads you to violent hedonism, pessimism leads you to violent antinatalism.

Not necessarily, not at all.

>>2258809
>Optimists get disappointed a lot, pessimist have pleasant surprises everywhere.
I've never found this argument convincing. How are pessimists supposed to have "pleasant surprises" when they are miserable twats that think everything is shit? Aren't optimistic the one that have all the pleasant surprises because they manage to find happiness in mundane things? On the other side, how are optimists supposed to be disappointed if they're optimists? If something doesn't go the way they wanted they'll get over it and continue on as before, because they're fucking optimists.

>> No.2258861

Optimism is another word for faith.

Which I loath.

>> No.2258872

>>2258861
I think optimism is a kind of emotion or disposition, and pessimism it's opposite emotion or disposition.
I don't think it has much to do with faith.
If you accept that optimism is a kind of emotion, and still hold that it's another word for faith, then you have to accept pessimism as an emotion and a word for lack-of-faith, and so, admit that lack-of-faith is an equal and opposite emotion. People who identify themselves as "rational" don't like to admit that their positions have anything do with emotion.

>> No.2258875

>ctrl+f: define optimism
>ctrl+f: define pessimism

Any moment now. Any moment.

>> No.2258881
File: 392 KB, 100x101, 456456.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2258881

Both are the same.

>> No.2258891

Define "moment".

>> No.2258892

>>2258891
Define 'definition'.

>> No.2259062

>>2258759

What about believing in the inherent beauty of the universe around us, and living in constant disbelief that something so wonderful is there for the taking? Is that optimism?

>> No.2260787

>>2258854

Both may not be evil, but they give a very limited general view of the world we live in and holds us back as critical thinkers, like all generalisations.

>> No.2260794

>>2258824
Such is the dead end I encounter.

I don't think this is about choosing. It's like choosing your belief, it's impossible without just not facing the truth or what you understand as the truth.

>> No.2260805

why do you have to be one or the other? i like a nice bit of Optimism to go with my pessimism.