/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22582890]

Why can't /lit/ just admit that it mogs LOTR into oblivion? You can't cling to old shit forever

[Anonymous No.22582893]

I'm not reading your bisexual alien rape fantasy book, Bakker, no matter how much "philosophy" you thrown in there.

[Anonymous No.22582901]

>>22582890
What's so great about it? I've been wanting to read some fantasy. Is it of comparable quality as BotNS?

[Anonymous No.22582912]

It's pretty good but the Kellus wanking and rapebait female characters tired me sufficiently to stop at the third book and not continue reading the next serie.

[Anonymous No.22582917]

>>22582901
Retelling of the crusades with a lean into the philosophy of mind

[Anonymous No.22582933]

I expect little else but the best from the man who has solved the problem of meaning.

[Anonymous No.22582956]

the whole point of LOTR is it's hostility to metaphor and "intellectualisation", championing simple "goodness" as embodied by the small man

a better symmetrical contrast for LOTR is between ASOIAF, as it also occupies / jostles for the invented history, anti-metaphor ground

it's difficult to do any fantasy at scale without earnest attempt at invented history, because metaphor and allusion undermine the ability for reader to suspend disbelief, turning it into a kind of tiresome clusterfuck like Prince of Nothing, and those ideas would far more effectively captured in a condensed fairy tale.

[Anonymous No.22584024]

>>22582893
Can a Canuck physically refrain from gay shish

[Anonymous No.22584050]

>>22584024
No, this books is full of rape of all type, gay rape, hetero rape, even a fuckin alien rape too, cuckold, the other Baker book, Neuropath, was full of rape and cuckold too, dude write "fantasy" just let it out his cuck rape fantasy

[Anonymous No.22584080]

>>22584050
That proves it; he could have written only straight stuff but he had to put gay shit in
I in general hate authors who use genre fiction to put out their fetishes; I want to hear about dragons and robos not your cock

[Anonymous No.22584085]

>>22582890
Why is it better? You say it's better than LOTR, but does the statement hold truth for The Hobbit and The Silmarillion?

[Anonymous No.22584096]

>>22584080
>>22584050
>>22582893
Its easy to tell that none of you retards actually read the books cause you fell for the gay sex memes. In reality, there's like 3 instances of gay sex across 7 novels

[Anonymous No.22584110]

>>22584096
>there's like 3 instances of gay sex across 7 novels
There's not one mention in LotR or Narnia, and the only time its mentioned in some theories is as a joke
I don't want to hear about cock in arse when I pick up a fun book; is this really too much for leafs to comprehend

[Anonymous No.22584117]

>>22584096
I read the books, Bakker, and is full of rape and cuck shit, even read Neuropath.

[Anonymous No.22584119]

>>22584110
So dont read it dumb bitch nigga it's almost like the planet doesn't revolve around your puckered anus

[Anonymous No.22584122]

>>22584119
You seem very interested in the status of my anus, fag.
Get ye to /lgbt

[Anonymous No.22584163]

>>22584096
But why are there any gay sex scenes at all? What the fuck, lol

[Anonymous No.22584182]

>>22584163
Because the story is about war. You know what happens a lot during war?

[Anonymous No.22584187]

>>22584163
I don't get the need to include homosexuality in books unless you are trying to get some small press's ESG points up
>>22584182
I have known a great many soldiers and none of them got raped. Tolkien, Dunsany, and C.S Lewis were all military vets and no one wrote about rape

[Anonymous No.22584209]

>>22584050
There was a time when /lit/ would have been singing the praises of a book that was nothing but rape, not offended by it. How sad. We’ve gotten soft, moralizing, and dull.

Also, there’s not much rape in these books.

[Anonymous No.22584217]

BORN TO CANT
CONSULT IS A FUCK
鬼神 Kill Em All 4132 Year-of-the-Tusk
I Am Mandati Man
478,637,782 CULLED SRANC

[Anonymous No.22584232]

>>22584209
Just read old romance novels from before 1950 if you are a rape depiction enthusiast
Anyhow, I don't care that there's rape, I care that it is gay

[Anonymous No.22584236]

>>22584187
Hey sorry to break it to you man but anytime you have 1000s of guys together cordoned off from society with no broads around some of them are gonna succumb to their base animalism and buttfuck each other. Look at jail its the same deal.

[Anonymous No.22584242]

>>22584187
Anecdotal cope. There is lots of evidence and statistics about the amount of rape that occurs during war. Especially when humans were less technologically advanced.

It should be noted that none of the gay characters are good in Bakkers books. They're all shit people and quite literally end up burning in hell.

[Anonymous No.22584244]

>>22584236
>trust me, homosexuality is natural
>>22584242
That's slightly better, but sometimes I can't help but feel that the author is getting off on the scenes of rape like a 2000s yaoi fangirl

[Anonymous No.22584260]

>>22582890
Stop shilling your pulp D&D garbage here, Bakker

[Anonymous No.22584272]

>>22584244
Whether its natural or not really has nothing to do with what i said. Personally I think its gross and odd but to deny reality is foolish.

[Anonymous No.22584274]

The only cases of gay rape I can remember off the top of my head

1. Young Anasurimbor prince gets raped by a crazed bard.
2. Conphas gets raped by drunk Cnaiur
3. Random northerner dude gets raped by Aurang...does it count as 'gay' if its an alien monster and his dick literally kills you?
4. Proyas gets raped by Kellhus, still, it is 'gay' if Kellhus is asexual and to him thats just a power play?

Aside from that it's just Sranc raping random soldiers in the background
Saubon dies in a rapey fashion which was super sad

[Anonymous No.22584275]

>the thread devolved into discussion about homo rape

Fitting for a thread about Bakker's book.

[Anonymous No.22584278]

>>22584272
But why include gay sex in a book? I think its because Bakker is secretly a yaoi woman

[Anonymous No.22584281]

>>22584274
Would the backbone story really be forever changed if it did not include rape

[Anonymous No.22584312]

>>22584281
Yes

[Anonymous No.22584318]

>>22584312
Could not let's say, the author simply have the prince be strangled by the bard and the monster simply eat random northerner

[Anonymous No.22584329]

>>22584318
No.
Read the books to find out why

[Anonymous No.22584339]

>>22584318
So true bestie! And while we're at it, could the characters not have just had a nice talk and made up and hugged each other and lived happily ever after? <3333333333

[Anonymous No.22584353]

>>22584329
>>22584339
You can have evil characters and evil shit and not have gay rape

[Anonymous No.22584362]

>>22584353
No you can't. To give you a little spoiler, rape plays an integral part in the central narrative and the thesis of the entire saga. The alien monster dude isn't just le evil, he comes from what he calls the 'race of lovers', and his goons are tiny doglike creatures that had their brains wired to conflate physical violence with sexual pleasure.

[Anonymous No.22584371]

>>22584318
>why does the author write the way he wants and not the way I want?!
You're a retard who doesn't deserve access to the printed word

[Anonymous No.22584376]

>>22584362
>>22584371
More like this author didn't deserve to be born as a White man instead of a Japanese doujin artist

[Anonymous No.22584388]

>>22582917
Is it any good? Sounds like a premise I could get into as a comfy read but I have been burned before.

[Anonymous No.22584404]

>>22584376
yes because sexual violence famously did not exist prior to the proliferation of pornographic japanese cartoons

[Anonymous No.22584412]

>>22584404
Yeah, but weird elaborate sexual fantasies involving alien probing is very Japanese

[Anonymous No.22584421]

>>22582890
It's great.

But it is a crop that sprouted on the ground that Tolkien plowed decades before.

[Anonymous No.22584466]

BAKKER IS KING

[Anonymous No.22584608]

>>22584388
It's great if you're willing to deal with initial confusion. The first page here
>>22584466
is often memed because Bakker doesn't care to ease you into his world. He'll casually mention terms and names in the passing that will become crucial hundreds of pages or several novels later, so initially you'll be groping in a daze.

[Anonymous No.22584719]

>>22584466
I can't decide if that pic was made as a mockery of the atrocious prose or by a genuine Bakkerfag

[Anonymous No.22584739]

>>22582890
>hurrr so it's about this dude who knows everything and how to manipulate everyone and sees the future durrr
Rivetting stuff.

[Anonymous No.22584751]

>>22584719
Name one bad thing about the prose aside from le scary new words

[Anonymous No.22584833]

>>22584751
Poo in the loo

[Anonymous No.22584924]

>>22584833
Concession accepted.

[Anonymous No.22585122]

>>22584096
>In reality, there's like 3 instances of gay sex across 7 novels
3 instances too much.

[Anonymous No.22585131]

>>22584751
>Look mom I added TWO different accents to the same word! Extra fantasy-y and exotic!
I hate americans so much

[Anonymous No.22586509]

>>22584163
it's grim dark historical fantasy. it's for shock. and important for character development when it happens to characters we've followed. i won't spoil anything. it's not included for 'representation' and isn't purely fetish. although i do think bakker is too keen on using cuckoldry.

[Anonymous No.22586511]

>>22584110
>I don't want to hear about cock in arse
there's no mention of this in such detail

lotr or narnia are quite different so no need to compare beyond what is comparable. but it's enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.22586532]

>>22584274
Cnaiur himself gets raped. I don't think getting mindbroken counts as consensual and he's not homosexual generally, although the issue isn't homosexuality, which they probably don't have a notion of as a 'sexual orientation' or 'identity', but assuming the role of a woman as a man. It's not just the getting mindbroken with words and patricide, but being broken in as a man (penetrated), especially in that position with people treating you differently. Doubly mindbroken. Then stewing in it for most your life. So the homosex is quite important in his case. He got broken in and dominated in all ways, and still loves the man who did it.

[Anonymous No.22586580]

>>22586532
Cnaiur fucks Moenghus. Bakker avoids that rather toothless idea of the dominator being dominated by making Cnaiur hyper masculine in every way bar his sexual attractions. It's the contrast that drives him mad, not some loss of control or pride or whatever. He is the ultimate example of a man in that time period apart from this one factor (his sexuality) that would make him contemptible even to slaves.

[Anonymous No.22587026]

>>22584274
>Young Anasurimbor prince gets raped by a crazed bard.
That attracts and deserves more attention since it's literally the first page.

>The only cases of gay rape I can remember off the top of my head
Conphas fucked over the Scylvendi by setting up a mass gay rape show of his Scylvendi captives by his men in their view, thus goading them into a reckless attack. Which means that one of the key geopolitical developments in the early plot and the setup of our deuteragonist are achieved by military application of mass gay rape as a combat tactic. And that gets Conphas treated as a military genius.

Also Xerius starts fucking his mom and then discovers that she's a skin spy with a dick, and think that counts.

I generally like the Second Apocalypse, but it has weak sides, and Bakker's utter fuckign fixation on rape is one of them.

>>22584312
I was kinda severely disappointed by the Ichoroi as a race fully subsumed by materialistic drive for pleasure/avoidance of suffering, which turns out to be just literally sex. From them and for all their creations, the highest of all pleasures on Earth and between the stars is just sexual pleasure.

If your otherwoldly transcendantal aliens who graft human heads inside their mouths can't come up with better pleasure than orgasm then your aliens are kinda boring.

[Anonymous No.22587032]

>>22584751
Honey of unwashed anuses

[Anonymous No.22587033]

I'M NOT READING YOUR KEK RAPEY FANTASY, BAKKER! NOT MATTER HOW MUCH "PROFUND" IT IS!

[Anonymous No.22587189]

>>22584608
Im pretty ok with that. I have enjoyed other authors that do the same thing like Clark Ashton Smith and Lord Dunsany. If thats the worst of it I will check it out.