/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22512939]

why did the party want power, again?
>for the sake of power
but why though?
>for its own sake
i can't understand that, sorry.
why would someone - let alone an entire caste of people - want other people to suffer without any other reason?

[Anonymous No.22512954]

>>22512939
1984 is a caricature of power of and authority. However, power will necessarily grow until it reaches its limits, typically by competing power structures

[Anonymous No.22513032]

>>22512939
Guarantees they can do what they want without reprocussions while enjoying maximum comfort and safety together with their families/close ones

[Anonymous No.22513059]

>>22512939
Self-preservation is a powerful thing.

[Anonymous No.22513068]

so they could instal the gay agenda, and divert tax money away from oil subsidies, retirement pensions, and aid to our greatest ally israel?

now where does that sound familiar?

[Anonymous No.22513084]

>>22512939
>i can't understand that, sorry.
That's why you'll never be anything.

[Anonymous No.22513094]

the book goes too far with its cartoonishly evil portrayal of authoriarianism. You are kind of alluding to this. Do people crush and mislead people for political power? Of course. But this was beyond that, it was too unrealistic to be interesting. Leaders, even authoritarians, want to be loved and remembered fondly by the masses. There's a nuance between political domination and seeking genuine affection from the dominated that Orwell didn't really explore at all

[Anonymous No.22513095]

>>22512939
You're just naive. You love power. Do you like being free? Enjoy doing what you like? You understand it, you just cope about it.

[Anonymous No.22513107]

>>22512939
the book tells you exactly what you need to know

[Anonymous No.22513120]

>>22513107
This is a genuine quote.

[Anonymous No.22513251]

>>22513095
i don't enjoy hurting other people
i hate it, in fact

[Anonymous No.22513849]

>>22513084
explain

[Anonymous No.22513918]

>>22512939
The party consisted of about 2-3 million elites who figured out the only feasible way to maintain their status was to essentially convert themselves into becoming ideal party members themselves. That is, any single member of the upper class that failed to meet whatever arbitrary requirements that were expected of the party was immediately killed. That way the party would forever exist as it would incorporate new individuals while expelling undesirables.

This individuals are now forever stuck in this position. They cannot simply "leave", or even preform any act of kindness or humanitarianism as it would be counter-productive to the parties goals (maintaining the system that perpetuates the party). Quite literally, the party cannot be destroyed even by party members, as there is no actual centralised power.

[Anonymous No.22514426]

>>22513849
no

[Anonymous No.22514429]

>>22512954
>1984 is a caricature of power of and authority
Is it? seems tamer than what we have now

[Anonymous No.22514581]

>>22514429
Take your meds

[Anonymous No.22514587]

>>22513251
slave morality

[Anonymous No.22514588]

>>22512939
I've only seen 1984 in theater, but feels like it's hugely overrated and its main claim to fame is retards going "omg it's literally 1984" every time they don't like a policy.

[Anonymous No.22514594]

>>22514588
>seen

[Anonymous No.22514608]

>>22514594
have + past participle you're welcome for the english tip

[Anonymous No.22514617]

>>22514608
Precocious reader, you.

[Anonymous No.22514767]

The party in power needs to keep power because there are no rights or rule of law. Thus, in a vacuum, another party that rules by force is likely to arise. This means that the rulers are themselves enslaved to the system because they cannot lift their boot off the neck of the people without risk of retribution and revolt. Neither do the leaders get recognition, thymos from their people, because slaves are incapable of giving another human being freely given human regard if that person is a master over them.

Saint Augustine explains this in the City of God and Hegel goes into this as well.

[Anonymous No.22514771]

>>22513107
you can follow the ten commandments and still be friends with astronauts. humans are so stupid it gives me AIDS

[Anonymous No.22514772]

>>22512939
You can't understand that people that seek power want to retain power? Have you ever had anything you wanted, received, and didn't just give it up without a fight? Have you ever been robbed at gunpoint?

[Anonymous No.22514782]

>>22514772
>americans think this is a normal question

[Anonymous No.22514903]

>>22514588
What causes this phenomenon where the people who have never read 1984 are the biggest critics of it? Everytime I've heard someone say stuff like this it always comes with a criticism that shows they've never it or an outright statement (like this one) that they've never read it.

[Anonymous No.22514939]

>>22514782
>He lives a coddled nanny state life ensheathed in bubble wrap where he is never forced to defend himself.
>Mommy government always there to fix his boo boos and keep him safe.
Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.22515960]

>>22512939
> why would someone - let alone an entire caste of people - want other people to suffer without any other reason?

This is bait. No way you so perfectly typed that set up out, the “entire caste of people” part just proves it.

[Anonymous No.22515976]

>>22514588
>I've only seen 1984 in theater
fucking /lit/ never changes lmao

[Anonymous No.22516057]

>>22513094
Stalinism and Marxist-Leninism, Maoist China and the Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot’s killing fields in Cambodia, all of North Korea, events in the U.S. like the creation of Guantanamo Bay, the abolishment of civil rights and impartial courts/trials for suspected “terrorists” after 9/11 with the Patriot Act, as well as the omni-surveillance of citizens it allowed, the Abu Graib scandal, Julian Assange’s maximum-security solitary confinement imprisonment … there’s a fair amount of examples of just genuine sadism by people in power, bloodlust/torture/punishment for the sake of it. You are in fact sadly dumb, naive, sheltered and uneducated if you find it just “cartoonishly evil for the sake of being cartoonishly evil.” Stuff as described in the book has happened throughout history and continues to happen today.

[Anonymous No.22516073]

>>22512939
The purpose of the party is to sustain and protect the oligarchs (Inner Party) who run the country, and enjoy the best of everything.
Read the chapter where Winston visits O'Brien's flat. O'Brien enjoys luxuries and privileges that Winston has never seen before.

[Anonymous No.22516248]

>>22514429
This a rather absurd assertion. Whites are getting 'soft killed' off, but we still have a fair amount of personal freedom, social mobility, etc...

[Anonymous No.22516263]

>>22514429
Hysteria isn't a good look.

[Anonymous No.22516476]

>>22513094
>he doesn't know everything that happened in 1984 happened in stalinist Russia

[Anonymous No.22516540]

>>22513094
>There's a nuance between political domination and seeking genuine affection from the dominated that Orwell didn't really explore at all
The last sentence of the book is literally "He
loved Big Brother."
(I actually think the film version handled it better. When John Hurt (as Winston) murmurs "I love you," it's not clear if he means B.B. or Julia.)

[Anonymous No.22516789]

>>22512939
>why would someone - let alone an entire caste of people - want other people to suffer without any other reason?
Rich people have "more" when poor people have less. Then they can pluck talented men and beautiful women out of the lower classes and buy their souls for barely 6 figures a year. It's the same with power, the powerful have more if the ordinary people have less. It's why society will always seem so cruel, why orwell described the future of the human race as a boot stamping down on a face, forever. The people with power, the people in charge, will ALWAYS have an interest in keeping others down.

[Anonymous No.22516824]

>>22513032
Spbp.
Normies are literally incapable of understanding this and that's why the civilization dies of social cancer

[Anonymous No.22516828]

>>22513059
a fellow intellectual

[Anonymous No.22516864]

>>22514587
master morality seems less ethical than slave morality because the latter promotes the wellbeing of everybody instead of the select few
do not tell me that you think human wellbeing is bad. if you do, you are not human.

[Anonymous No.22516882]

>>22512939
Any one alive wants to secure or improve their position, no matter what it is.

[Anonymous No.22517226]

>>22516828
That's what she said

[Anonymous No.22517502]

>>22512939
>why would someone - let alone an entire caste of people - want other people to suffer without any other reason?

Do you know ANYTHING about basic history or politics?

[Anonymous No.22517505]

>>22516248
>we still have
>still

[Anonymous No.22517515]

>>22512939
>Literally can't understand will to power
Utterly cucked.