The first novel ever written

[Anonymous No.22495382]

Is it elite or shit? Being written by a woman is already a red flag

[Anonymous No.22495508]

You're retard for saying that novels written by women are "red flags"

[Anonymous No.22495520]

>>22495508
Oh, yeah? Are Nabokov, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Weininger also retarded then? Are all the ancient writers retards as well then?

[Anonymous No.22495525]

>>22495520
Yes

[Anonymous No.22495527]

>>22495520
imagine any of them trying to make a video post.

[Anonymous No.22495550]

>The first novel ever written
lol

[Anonymous No.22495618]

>>22495382
What is The Golden Ass? Satyricon?

[Anonymous No.22495620]

>>22495550
>>22495618
Every single scholar agrees that Genji was the first novel, retards. Just search on Google.

[Anonymous No.22495625]

>>22495620
The 2 books mentioned were written way earlier and considered novels

[Anonymous No.22495627]

>>22495620
>Just search on Google
And now who is the retard?

[Anonymous No.22495633]

>>22495620
False.
The Golden Ass:
>James Evans (2005). Arts and Humanities Through the Eras. Thomson/Gale. p. 78. ISBN 978-0-7876-5699-7. "The 'Golden Ass' the only Latin novel to survive in its entirety"
Satyricon:
>Moore, Steven (2010). The Novel, an Alternative History: Beginnings to 1600. Moore aligns it with modern novels like Joyce's Ulysses and Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow.

[Anonymous No.22495643]

wait so The Golden Ass was already well known for a while but why is Genji considered the first novel? Is there a particular reason why it's disqualified?

[Anonymous No.22495646]

>>22495643
>why is Genji considered the first novel?
I've never heard of this. It's always Golden Ass (first surviving novel) or Don Quixote (first modern novel).

[Anonymous No.22495651]

Fucking weebs.

[Anonymous No.22495654]

>>22495643
Apuleius and Petronius definitely wrote what is considered a novel but they are free flowing and have side storylines or plots. I’d imagine anyone saying Genji means novel with a tight arc. I’ve never read it though so maybe an anon can elaborate

[Anonymous No.22495662]

>>22495646
I've heard it multiple times. I think it's like a common misconception like how pasta originated from China.

[Anonymous No.22495664]

>>22495651
>Everyone who likes japanese culture is a weeb
Fuck off

[Anonymous No.22495667]

>>22495662
Where is pasta from?

[Anonymous No.22495676]

>>22495667
Italy.

[Anonymous No.22495682]

>>22495676
>The earliest written record of noodles is found in a book dated to the Eastern Han period (25–220 CE).[1] Noodles made from wheat dough became a prominent food for the people of the Han dynasty.[3] The oldest evidence of noodles was from 4,000 years ago in China.[1] In 2005, a team of archaeologists reported finding an earthenware bowl that contained 4000-year-old noodles at the Lajia archaeological site.[4]

[Anonymous No.22495697]

>>22495382
Isn't this about the prince that wants to fuck his stepmother?

[Anonymous No.22495733]

>>22495682
Noodles aren't pasta.

[Anonymous No.22495735]

>>22495697
Use spoiler tags, you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.22495739]

>>22495733
Noodles predate Italian pasta

[Anonymous No.22495746]

>>22495646
There was a nationalistic competition in the 19th century of who gets to claim the credit for anything and everything and the first novel proved no exception. You'd think the Greco-Romans would be a neutral ground, but you can't masturbate over the superiority of your own nation if you agree to that. So, scholars had to get around the Greco-Romans, leading to various definitions getting developed to justify every and each country's own book as the oldest real novel which incidentally is probably why that bit about Don Quijote being the first modern novel exists, although I don't know enough about its reception to say if it really stands out. That's also why the English wank off those early epistolary novels so hard despite them being arguably less novels than Golden Ass or Don Quijote; they didn't have anything better, but had to have something in order to stay competitive. Anyway, what ended up happening is that no matter what definition European scholars threw up, the Tale of Genji wound up fulfilling every criterion once the Japanese became aware there was a competition going on. Of course, after all that nationalistic fervour led to a couple of world wars, the Tale of Genji was fine neutral ground that for Western scholars that gave some credit to non-Europeans. Personally, I do agree that there is no particular reason to exclude the Greco-Romans. However, I really don't know where you're getting Apuleius from: Both Khariton's Kallirhoe and Petronius' Satyricon date from around the reign of Nero, predating the Golden Ass by a century or so, so either of them could be the oldest surviving novel.

[Anonymous No.22495757]

>>22495746
Wtf are you smoking dude

[Anonymous No.22495760]

>>22495620
>Every single (((scholar)))

[Anonymous No.22495761]

>>22495682
pasta didn't originate from chinese noodles. They were invented seperately

[Anonymous No.22495775]

>>22495746
>Both Khariton's Kallirhoe and Petronius' Satyricon date from around the reign of Nero, predating the Golden Ass by a century or so, so either of them could be the oldest surviving novel.
Because Golden Ass is complete and Satyricon incomplete.

[Anonymous No.22496092]

*Oldest novel we know about

[Anonymous No.22496121]

>>22495520
They aren't, but you are

[Anonymous No.22496170]

>>22496092
Not true btw

[Anonymous No.22496270]

>>22495646
Isn't Callirhoe the oldest surviving novel? >>22495643
My guess would be for the sake of marketing one of the English translations. My guess is there's a qualifier to set it as the earliest (certain type) of novel and publishers ran with it. That and/or someone called it "the earliest novel" at some point and the falsehood spread (could have been as simple as Japanese being accidentally dropped from "earliest Japanese novel). If you're interested look that up and maybe check out the move to introduce Japanese lit to the West in the early 20th century (e.g. Hearn and Pound)--it could be they were just genuinely mistaken and the existence of Callirhoe wasn't widespread knowledge (but my guess is marketing or publishers mistake).

[Anonymous No.22496391]

>>22495697
His adopted daughter, among others.

[Anonymous No.22496942]

>>22495382
>Isn't this about the prince that wants to fuck his stepmother?
Genji Monogatari is a fucking harem grooming novel, the first of its kind.

[Anonymous No.22497081]

The protagonist has sex with a young boy and tries to raise a baby girl to be his lover.

Goes on to show that the Japanese were always creepy bastards.

[Anonymous No.22497341]

>>22495382
I'm reading it right now, but I'm not yet halfway through yet. It's very good and is very different from anything else I've read in a very valuable way. However, one must remember that the book was written by a woman for other women. And as such the eponymous Genji commits rape multiple times and literally cucks his own father.

[Anonymous No.22497385]

>>22497341
Why are women so obsessed with rape?

[Anonymous No.22497442]

>>22495520
Yeah.

[Anonymous No.22497469]

It’s very hard to declare what the first novel is in the sense of a modern novel.
Genji, Satyricon and Golden Ass are put forward as opinions by various people. But it’s just opinions.

[Anonymous No.22497548]

>>22497469
>It’s very hard to declare what the first novel is in the sense of a modern novel.
DQ is the first modern novel. Golden Ass is the oldest (complete) novel.

[Anonymous No.22497568]

>>22497548
Why is Genji not "modern"?