/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22491002]

> D-death is actually a good thing bros! I'm totally not saying this because I've been sentenced to death because of my own stupidity and hubris and now I have to save face.

copium

[Anonymous No.22491059]

>>22491002
this sounds like a good place to live, what is your philosophy and what are your principles of governance?

[Anonymous No.22491066]

Bros I wish I could die an epic death while being mourned by my legion of fans

[Anonymous No.22491164]

>>22491066
then go to war dont be a philosophy cuck like socrates

[Anonymous No.22491171]

>>22491002
and he truly did not abscond

[Anonymous No.22491276]

>>22491066
For me? It's Seneca.
>dies the exact same way he lived, writing letters to his friends to preach about how stone-cold he is

[Anonymous No.22491389]

>>22491002
Doesn't he say at some point that we don't know whether death is good or bad, so why spend your time fearing it?

[Anonymous No.22491397]

>>22491389
then why did he act like an asshole to the jury knowing he well anger them into sentencing him to death? it's suicide.

[Anonymous No.22491407]

>>22491397
Was he an asshole or were they just a bunch of saggy tits?

[Anonymous No.22491412]

>>22491407
he insulted the olympic winners and called himself the wisest man. he had to go.

[Anonymous No.22491417]

>>22491412
>t. assblasted Athenian

Verification not required.

[Anonymous No.22491418]

>>22491002
the old fuck was literally already dying and he jumped at the opportunity to be sentenced to death so he could appear to be a martyr lmaoooooooo

[Anonymous No.22491428]

>>22491417
go be a debatebro somewhere else socrates cuck. in this polis we respect our ancestral values

[Anonymous No.22491441]

>>22491397
The argument of Plato's Apology is that 1) Socrates knows what kind of approach would get him off the hook (bringing his family in, crying and begging, promising he won't examine people), but 2) as a way of getting off the hook, this encourages Socrates a) to be less virtuous, in adopting cowardice over courage, and b) makes the Athenians more impious, since they've sworn oaths to judge by the facts and the laws, where letting emotional appeals sway them would result in breaking their oaths. Socrates further pisses off the court by insisting on being rewarded instead of punished, because to even ask for a lesser punishment like a fine is to admit guilt. So, not being persuaded he did anything unjust, he'll take both verdict and sentence without trying to weasel out of them, which would instead give an even stronger impression that he was guilty.

If you go by Xenophon's Apology (and his summary of it in the last chapter of his Memorabilia), Socrates, being 70, and noticing the beginnings of the decline of his age, also figured he didn't mind dying a relatively easy death like hemlock, since he would die soon anyway. The implication is that if the trial took place a decade earlier, Socrates would've been maybe more careful with his tone, but at 70, why bother delaying the inevitable?

[Anonymous No.22491457]

>>22491002
By facing the death sentence fearlessly, he mogged the materialist philosophers of his time on the issues of free will and the immortal soul

[Anonymous No.22491641]

>>22491441
>And as for Socrates, by exalting himself before the court, he brought ill-will upon himself and made his conviction by the jury more certain. Now to me he seems to have met a fate that the gods love; for he escaped the hardest part of life and met the easiest sort of death. [33] And he displayed the stalwart nature of his heart; for having once decided that to die was better for him than to live longer, he did not weaken in the presence of death (just as he had never set his face against any other thing, either, that was for his good), but was cheerful not only in the expectation of death but in meeting it. [34]

>And so, in contemplating the man's wisdom and nobility of character, I find it beyond my power to forget him or, in remembering him, to refrain from praising him. And if among those who make virtue their aim any one has ever been brought into contact with a person more helpful than Socrates, I count that man worthy to be called most blessed.

[Anonymous No.22491668]

>>22491641
>As for his claim that he was forewarned by “the deity” what he ought to do and what not to do, some may think that it must have been a delusion because he was condemned to death. But they should remember two facts. First, he had already reached such an age, that had he not died then, death must have come to him soon after. Secondly, he escaped the most irksome stage of life and the inevitable diminution of mental powers, and instead won glory by the moral strength revealed in the wonderful honesty and frankness and probity of his defence, and in the equanimity and manliness with which he bore the sentence of death. [2]

[Anonymous No.22491694]

>>22491441
>>22491641
>>22491668
Absolutely based, especially coming from Xenophon.

[Anonymous No.22492424]

>>22491407
He kind of implied they were all impious or immoral because he told Meletus that it is one man who makes everyone better and not all men making everyone better.

[Anonymous No.22492914]

>>22491002
He practically admits at the end of the dialogue that he's just trying to comfort his friends, and that no one really knows what comes after.

[Anonymous No.22493738]

>>22491002
https://youtu.be/xQXK-BMLgmc

[Anonymous No.22494576]

>>22491276
For me, it's Petronius
>Yet he did not fling away life with precipitate haste, but having made an incision in his veins and then, according to his humour, bound them up, he again opened them, while he conversed with his friends, not in a serious strain or on topics that might win for him the glory of courage. And he listened to them as they repeated, not thoughts on the immortality of the soul or on the theories of philosophers, but light poetry and playful verses. To some of his slaves he gave liberal presents, a flogging to others. He dined, indulged himself in sleep, that death, though forced on him, might have a natural appearance. Even in his will he did not, as did many in their last moments, flatter Nero or Tigellinus or any other of the men in power. On the contrary, he described fully the prince's shameful excesses, with the names of his male and female companions and their novelties in debauchery, and sent the account under seal to Nero. Then he broke his signet-ring, that it might not be subsequently available for imperilling others.

[Anonymous No.22494582]

>>22491002
Socrates was a moron
All good Plato works are Plato's, not his

[Anonymous No.22494586]

>>22491164
>then go to war dont be a philosophy cuck like socrates
>Yes, yes goy, fight for our shekels.

[Anonymous No.22494597]

>>22491441
>dude, not dying is not virtuous!
Kek completely retarded
Only goes to show that he wasn't motivated by bravery or courage or
He just had nothing to lose and as an attention whore he loved it too. If he escaped he would have to lay low and Socrates, being the spiritual tranny that he was, didn't like that

[Anonymous No.22494604]

>>22491668
>>22491641
Pilpul
Trust a snake before a Jew, and a Jew before a Greek

[Anonymous No.22494629]

>>22494582
Bro all of Plato's works are Plato's, what are you on about.
Are you meaning to say Socrates' influence was negative? He was an irreplaceable point in the physis/nomos historical development and there wouldn't be a Plato without him.

[Anonymous No.22494664]

>>22491002
τελείωσε

[Anonymous No.22494743]

>>22494629
Just like there wouldn't be a (You) without at least one of your female ancestors being raped and impregnated and without at least one of your male ancestors being molested.
>>22494664
Τέλος*
"Τελείωσε" is usually used to denote things like "the water is finished", i.e. there's no more left. "Τέλος" means "it is done", "this is the end", or even said angrily or condenscendingly to mean "cut it off"

[Anonymous No.22494779]

>>22494743
Very fair and true point, thank you
Also, I've never encountered Τελείωσε, or that suffix generally. What is it morphologically?

[Anonymous No.22494787]

>>22494597
>Only goes to show that he wasn't motivated by bravery or courage
Doesn't follow. The convenience of the death isn't in tension with the exercise of courage in refusing to beg and plead for one's life and innocence and to argue for the superiority of his way of life.