/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22470602]

so wtf is the alternative bros?

[Anonymous No.22470608]

>>22470602
calvinist anarco-maoism

[Anonymous No.22470610]

>>22470602
facts don't care about your feelings.

[Anonymous No.22470623]

>>22470602
aha, *blocks my path*, but not before changing the gaming entirely

[Anonymous No.22470677]

Fuck putting yourself in a context when capital is deterritorialized, fuck Hannah Arendts "Totalitarism" that only leaves room for "Democracy vs. Totalitarism" and fuck God being unconscious. Accept that your horizon is final and at the end there is only death. That way you can build a just society.

[Anonymous No.22470680]

>>22470602
Get in the car bitch. We are negating the negation. We are bring Communisim back. Don't like that? Fuck you

[Anonymous No.22470710]

>>22470680
OP lives in a nation that has probably already embraced the basics of the manifesto, and wants to talk about how there are no alternatives to capitalism despite not having ever lived in a capitalist state. Did communism actually go anywhere comrade? Putin is likely thermidorian reaction, Stalin is where it's at.

[Anonymous No.22470765]

>>22470602
There's no alternative. The best the government can hope for is managing the federal reserve and gullying capitalists into investing in the right things instead of buying another mcmansion.

[Anonymous No.22470778]

>>22470602
Communist Delusion

[Anonymous No.22470782]

>>22470602
Sound alternative options right here, People’s Republic of Walmart. We have the logistical system it just needs to be for the people instead of the rich.

>>22470680
Comrade!

[Anonymous No.22470819]

I wish there were some capitalist countries left. Everything is run by corporate collectives, and the state taxes individuals to death while giving tax breaks and subsidies to collectives. It's all some commie shit.

[Anonymous No.22470822]

Once the corporations take over the government functions is it still really capitalism? Because that is a plausible alternative to capitalism

[Anonymous No.22470826]

>>22470819
Lel what did you think is the endgame of capitalism? And no, that's not communism.

[Anonymous No.22470888]

>>22470602
poverty

[Anonymous No.22470918]

>>22470819
>I wish there were some capitalist countries left. Everything is run by corporate collectives, and the state taxes individuals to death while giving tax breaks and subsidies to collectives. It's all some commie shit.
"corporate collectives" lmao
Trumptard populists should just come out of the closet as anti-capitalists instead of coming up with increasingly more convoluted explanations for how real Capitalism is actually against big corporations

[Anonymous No.22470923]

>>22470602
milk and honey? hmmm no blood and school

[Anonymous No.22470927]

>>22470822
And what do the corporations do once "they take over the government", they lower taxes and promote deregulation (capitalism)? You are beyond dumb.

[Anonymous No.22470928]

>>22470602
Mark Fisher actually found it.

[Anonymous No.22470989]

read Marx, not Fisher

[Anonymous No.22471004]

>>22470826
Have you ever tried to read the little WEF manifestos on "Stakeholder Capitalism"? Weird little books where Klaus Schwab fantasizes about some kind of Glenn Beck globalist conspiracy. Says corporations shouldn't be allowed to act in self-interest, and stockholders should have no decision-making power. Instead you extend government regulation, ESG scores, and public-private partnerships until they're forced to work towards the common good as defined by technocrats and left-wing activists. "Controlling the means of production". Then you create a global governing body modeled after the EU with total power to enforce open borders, end war and racism, just make the world one big economy where everyone works together to make GDP go up.

I find it funny because it's all so lame, obvious, and anti-utopian, just "the end of history but more so". But if you identify with "The Left" and aren't talking about de-industrialization or anything totally crazy, how exactly is your socialism any different? The global technocracy have to call themselves The Workers, and there has to be some moment where they defeat anyone who isn't currently The Workers. Other than that there's no difference.

[Anonymous No.22471063]

>>22470602
Why is this book so popular with twitter leftists? I never read it.

[Anonymous No.22471074]

>>22471063
The central idea is that capitalism neuters your mind to the point that it is easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism

[Anonymous No.22471086]

>>22471063
because it's extremely short and doesn't offend people with liberal sensibilities by actually putting forward any communist theses

[Anonymous No.22471087]

>>22471074
The way they talk about capitalism reminds me of the way hardcore catholic types talk about satan or the devil.

[Anonymous No.22471092]

>>22471087
>hardcore catholic types talk about satan or the devil.
Funny way to write "protestants"

[Anonymous No.22471105]

>>22471092
I was thinking of the way their language takes a turn for the religious whenever they talk about it. You'd think that as materialists they'd see it for the cabal of piggies that it is rather than this abstract malevolent force.

[Anonymous No.22471133]

>>22470819
Wow. How can you separate capitalist and capitalism so completely in your mind. Go back to living in ignorance or take this red pill here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14&pp=ygUUbWljaGFlbCBwYXJlbnRpIDE5ODY%3D

[Anonymous No.22471136]

>>22470602
>sees a coca cola ad
>*hangs himself*
Kek commies are their own worst enemy.

[Anonymous No.22471165]

>>22471133
easy, just be a petty bourgeois loser. "it's not capital if I can't own it"
>>22471136
if he was a communist then his book would call for the dictatorship of the proletariat instead of some academic faggot wallowing

[Anonymous No.22471184]

>>22471086
Twitter liberals get offended by his takes on mental illness and modern pop culture

[Anonymous No.22471192]

>>22471184
only some do

[Anonymous No.22471193]

>>22470602
Capitalism, all of materialist nonsense really, is just a game that people play. They get very carried away with it. Mark Fischer wasnt having any fun. Maybe he thought he could escape the game if he killed himself. Cautionary tale of taking the game too seriously.
>>22471087
Capital may as well be another name for the devil. Not wrong.

[Anonymous No.22471231]

What people from the left-wing continental tradition like Mark Fisher refer to as "capitalism" is really just modern materialistic nihilism. Of course, they can't admit that that's what they're really talking about, for then the actual nature of the problem and its solution would become too clear. So they elevate our current western economic model, capitalism, to this grand metaphysical entity with mysterious omnipotent control over our moral, imaginative and intellectual lives, and make it the scapegoat for all our contemporary spiritual suffering.

[Anonymous No.22471301]

>>22470710
There's no 'skipping' steps -- a communist has to be a capitalist e.g. Lenin's New Economic Policy & current year Moscow/Beijing.

[Anonymous No.22471303]

>>22470782
>We have the logistical system it just needs to be for the people instead of the rich.

Entirely military logistics system. Retarded and naive.

[Anonymous No.22471440]

>>22470602
National socialism, obviously

[Anonymous No.22471442]

>>22470602
get job, log off millennial

[Anonymous No.22471447]

>>22470610
Feelings don't care about your facts

[Anonymous No.22471459]

>>22470602
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNyUx1CBv6Y&list=LL&index=50&t=427s&pp=gAQBiAQB
>>22470782
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZSFGAIaxaA&pp=ygUPcHJheGJlbiB3YWxtYXJ0

Fucking commie scum get off my board

[Anonymous No.22471461]

books like this continue to make me think socialists are massive faggots

[Anonymous No.22471470]

>>22470927
No they don't. They lobby for more regulation and higher taxes on small businesses. Natural Monopolies aren't a real thing a monopoly can occur with the help of the state. If large companies control our government the way you say they do wouldn't we already live in Ancapistan if that's what they wanted?

[Anonymous No.22471472]

Truly a retarded book. It's basically a reformulation of one of the arguments laid out in The German Ideology mixed with modern pseudo-soicialist retardation. Marx won.

[Anonymous No.22471491]

>>22471459
>youtube videos
LMAO wrong board. try >>>/yt/ or something

[Anonymous No.22471497]

>>22471491
>>22471491
>Y-you critiqued my shitty books in the wrong medium. R-retard

[Anonymous No.22471519]

>>22471497
>youtube videos
>book critique
holy shit

[Anonymous No.22471529]

>>22471519
Not an argument

[Anonymous No.22471532]

>>22471529
neither is a youtube video

[Anonymous No.22471533]

>>22470602
ok, you filter high by default

[Anonymous No.22471534]

>>22471497
If you want parasocial talking heads to think for you it's time to leave

[Anonymous No.22471543]

>>22471491
>>22471519
>>22471532
>>22471534
If they were articles or a lecture would they be more valid? Why don't you criticise the arguments made in the video if they're so bad?

[Anonymous No.22471548]

>>22471543
lol I'm not watching a youtube video by some basement dweller, I'm not a homosexual

[Anonymous No.22471549]

>>22471548
Fine. Here's a paper. https://cdn.mises.org/qjae_23_1_kounya.pdf
You will read it, right anon?
>basement dweller
lol, ok commie

[Anonymous No.22471555]

>>22471543
if you don't buy in to the creator's ideology from the start you're not going to watch it. I've been trying unsuccessfully to get communists to watch alt-hype for years. These youtube debates never just cite the evidence up front and you're left with a rather myopic argument that could have been made in a 300 word post taking 30 minutes to an hour

[Anonymous No.22471562]

>>22471549
>the quarterly journal of austrian economics
never mind, you should've stuck with the video
the paper doesn't even have any relevance to communism, it's about some retarded book written by social democrats. who cares lol

[Anonymous No.22471563]

>>22471562

[Anonymous No.22471568]

>>22470602
Suicide, obviously.

[Anonymous No.22471581]

>>22471301
Only Cuba has been through all the steps technically, but you make a valid point.

[Anonymous No.22471624]

Lefts are unable to oppress. They willingly deprave themselves of the right to oppress their own children, they are weak and it is only by the lawfulness of their subjects that they are respected as authority figures in the office. Then they demand the state to do the job of oppression when a new great idea on how something even more inferior to the current form can be implemented into the way of living of every citizen, they polemize, the law gets passed, and another few who still had faith in society become critical of the current Western form. This might end in the complete collapse of this civilization, if it wasn't for the fact that it's subjects are normie to such a degree that they find everything done by the state, if not inherently good, at least acceptable, keeping the growing intellectual and material power of the sewer class in chess, and thus, incapabiliting them of taking place in the government. Their acts of sabotage remain forever unnoticed, because they have a too lofty idea of their individual rights to act as a collective group. For the immigrants, for the homosexuals, for the college educated work ants, all of them are normies, incapable of independant thought and as long as the government doesn't demand them to eat cow manure, they will swallow everything and forget the old way. What is left of the conservatives will either disappear under the table and join the sewer class, or they will become heavily left-wing and only act as a force opposed to whatever new degeneracies the current left is inventing, the actual difference between the two is minimal. However, I can't keep wondering wether the West will either collapse into itself alone, although I don't see anyone capable of doing the governmental job other than the sewer class, wich speaks little in favour of the West, or wether it hold out just fine until an imminent external threat brings it to explode.

[Anonymous No.22471658]

>>22470602
Glad this clown put himself out of his misery

[Anonymous No.22471661]

>>22470602

The alternative is a bigger, better red terror followed by the continuation of the current state of things so that all your gay little libidinal desires stay satiated. The state creates some suitable sort of social democracy while it puts every potential class enemy it can sniff out into the chipper. Call it communism, state capitalism, fascism, autocracy, whatever. It's the first stage towards reaching the highest possible states of absolute spirit.

[Anonymous No.22471670]

>>22471231
He’s actually a cult leader or rather was. If mainline Marxism is Christian Orthodoxy then Fisher is pastor Jim’s apocalyptic Bible church

[Anonymous No.22471676]

>>22471670
no one is actually gonna do this

[Anonymous No.22472005]

>>22471087
Gee I wonder why

[Anonymous No.22472281]

>>22470680
>>22470710
>>22470782
YWNBAW

[Anonymous No.22472284]

>>22471004
The WEF is basically just euro-boomers circle jerking about how influential they are while their objective QOL goes down the toilet.
Meanwhile more important think tanks are basically refining the idea into something more manageable. Instead they've devised impact bonds, which is money orgs/govs can give out as a, "Fulfill public services and if you do it better than us then you get paid". The successful charities thrive while the shit ones get cut off. It has had some moderate success in developing countries.

[Anonymous No.22472290]

>>22470602
i am so sick of people who need to start with their connection to the teacher

[Anonymous No.22472305]

>>22470927
Why would they lower taxes/prices? They don't lower their prices voluntarily now, why would they start once they have absolute power?

[Anonymous No.22472341]

>>22470602
As much as this will make people (in particular antisemetic polcels and "woke" (faux) progressives) seethe, but Curtis Yarvin's neo-corporate monoarchist system is already happening. Big corps are building arcologies around the world to have greater political control within these spaces and they will enjoy enhanced safety, security and economic prospects from within their borders. While China may hang on as the last powerful nation state, these transnational mega corporations and their increasingly inclusive hives of talent resources will eventually eclipse even the larger countries; they have already far exceeded the majority of the developing world.

[Anonymous No.22472435]

If you read Tristan Garcia you will see that he suggests every socio- cultural movement reaches a point where it kind of becomes too "broad" and has to kind of swing back the other way. A bit like a tipping point but more of a natural "phenomenon" like the rise and fall of empires.

[Anonymous No.22472444]

>>22470602
Anarchism, specifically the Kropotkinist strain. Anti-Marxism is vital.

[Anonymous No.22472585]

>>22471459
Stop shilling your worthless videos retard

[Anonymous No.22472695]

>>22471549
hypothetical scenarios invented by economists with brainworms isnt really a concern for communism

>Add technology to this problem, which, although in a free market society is a blessing,
I'm sure the millions of workers that are constantly made redundant due to 'innovation' will agree

[Anonymous No.22472717]

>>22472341
>neo-corporate monoarchist system
lol, lmao. it's just capitalism. some nerd giving it some new retarded name because he doesn't understand how it works doesn't bring anything new
>State capitalism is not a subjugation of capitalism to the state, but a firmer subjugation of the state to capital. https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1951/doctrine.htm
large capitals creating their own micro-states is exactly this and nothing more

[Anonymous No.22472735]

>>22472281
Never wanted to be one. They are only good for fucking, not unlike you.

[Anonymous No.22472737]

>>22470602
who is fucking doing this, if not for the 31 million dollar bitcoin guy from Texas who wants to study in Canada because they're a little slower up there eh

[Anonymous No.22472738]

>>22470602
National socialism

[Anonymous No.22472741]

>>22472738
fuck nazis entirely. oh, did you do that on purpose?

[Anonymous No.22472750]

>>22472741
What, you don't like a genuine answer?

[Anonymous No.22473038]

>>22472735
So a degenerate, got it.

[Anonymous No.22473236]

You are either a communist, a bourgeois, or a retard. See >>22471549? Retarded.

[Anonymous No.22473241]

>>22472750
i'd say i think you're funny but then i'd hate myself even more because there is more than one of you

[Anonymous No.22473250]

>>22472717
you have to be 18 to post here, kid

[Anonymous No.22473263]

>>22473250
says the guy looking up to youtubers and other internet personalities. I could be your dad lol

[Anonymous No.22473362]

>>22473038
Better than being a Virgin chud neo nazi larping Aryan fairy.

[Anonymous No.22473595]

>>22471063
because they didn't understand it.

I made a video where I summarize it in plain english and show that it's top midwitcore

https://youtu.be/cNyUx1CBv6Y?si=fEzLRayyUtkNUjGb

[Anonymous No.22473601]

>>22473595
>1k views youtuber
get a job loser

[Anonymous No.22473625]

>>22473595
your old

[Anonymous No.22473637]

>>22473595
>>22471459
Was it really necessary to shill your retarded channel twice?

[Anonymous No.22473732]

>>22473637
Wow. I did not know someone else had already posted my video. LLLLLEEEEETTTTTSSSSSS GGGGGGGOOOOOOOOO

[Anonymous No.22475370]

>>22472341
Deranged idiot, corpos will burn and starve in the fires of climate disaster

[Anonymous No.22475673]

>>22475370
>corpo
end yourself you gayming faggot lmao

[Anonymous No.22475717]

>>22470602
We collectively pretend that destroying capitalism won't lower our standard of living and then scapegoat a minority for the inevitable decline when it comes.

[Anonymous No.22475723]

>>22475717
taxing the megarich and booting transnational corpos all sounds good to me

[Anonymous No.22475728]

It seems the fundamental tensions and contradictions of capitalism broadly understood just were wrong, but that doesn't mean there is no alternative. We are living in an alternative to the days when states only looked out for groups with the right relation to productive forces. The alternative IS this globohomo diversity shit in a regulated mixed economic system. It's about evolution, not revolution.

[Anonymous No.22475730]

>>22473236
>you must agree with my mental illness or you’re stupid
Trannies do the same thing

[Anonymous No.22475732]

>>22471676
I’ve done a video on it so you’re free to look it up.

[Anonymous No.22475735]

>>22471461
For the most part they are
>t. Disillusioned socialist

[Anonymous No.22475741]

>>22471461
>>22475735
Read Sorel. The humanist faux-socialists have won, and we are in for the dark age he predicted.

[Anonymous No.22475780]

>>22475723
you have to be 18 to post here
>corpo
faggot

[Anonymous No.22475808]

>>22475728
This honestly does seem the push at least. Some places are becoming more prog socdem while others are going more right after decades of misplaced policy.
The US at least is bringing manufacturing back while slowly withdrawing globally by reducing arms sales and being more careful with military operations. The Afghan and Iraq war were horrendous mistakes that set US influence back. Additionally free trade is being gutted by reintroducing tariffs and restrictions, while fed rates will probably stay high compared to the last 20 years of artificially low rates.

[Anonymous No.22475817]

>>22475808
>Afghan and Iraq horrendous mistakes
Hardly any died and the costs weren't prohibitive. What's the use of goodwill if you never spend it?

[Anonymous No.22475822]

>>22470602
go to church or start planting trees i guess

[Anonymous No.22475861]

>>22475808
I don't even really care about the specifics. I think that even asking the question in the OP indicates an error. The current reality IS the alternative, and you really shouldn't presuppose that some human was on the mark with his analysis of economic forces 100%. Systems just evolve, and we are living in one which has changed continuously since "Capital". It has morphed as completely as the economic regime did in the long-century preceding that book or its author. The globohomo is inevitable and authors like Mark Fisher will welcome its deepening grip.

[Anonymous No.22475865]

>>22475861
Just because you live in a cushy part of the international value chain doesn't mean most of the world doesn't live in poverty. This is hardly the alternative

[Anonymous No.22475877]

>>22475865
They live better lives now than they ever did in the past. I live a cushier life than any of my ancestors did. The trajectory of improvement is extremely clear, and hiccups cause further evolution and refinement. The global social revolution will not be televised because it isn't going to happen.

[Anonymous No.22475885]

>>22475877
and yet, not actually an alternative. There is no social revolution, there's billionaires doing the same bismarkian deal that started welfare over a hundred deal

[Anonymous No.22475898]

>>22475885
It became an alternative of some kind to the capitalism Marx railed against. Throughout the years that sort of system (there are a million different names for it) has evolved and taken root in just about every country on the planet. It looks nothing like the beast Marx confronted back then, so it is the alternative to that beast, which is still today the core bogeyman in socialist thinking. The same realities and contradictions are not in play with this system.

[Anonymous No.22475938]

>>22475885
Clearly you're looking for religion.

[Anonymous No.22475946]

>>22475808
>The Afghan and Iraq war
You can tell it's an underaged retard, a brown person or a tranny when they group these two together

[Anonymous No.22476077]

So, what bothers me most about capitalism is the following.
FV=PV*(1+r)^(n*t)
when r is 3.5 percent, n 1 and t 20 then if PV is 1 FV will be 1.98.
Global GDP is growing at 3.5 percent on average of the last 100 years. So, in real terms either GDP stops growing at 3.5 percent in the next 20 years or we all have twice as much purchasing power. Oh and that's Gross and not Net, so take into consideration that our debt to GDP load is growing at an exponential rate. Ie people owing money to people owing money. What happens under these conditions is fairly obvious - people will create new financial products with more and more opaque ways of increasing leverage through serial lending until there's an unwinding event. Boom and bust cycles that are closer together and more severe over time.

Either that or someone finds a way of producing exponential returns to capital by mining space asteroids or discovers free energy. Or there's a world war.

Every 20 years.

And the entire world economy is based on this principle in order to exchange goods and services. I mean...that's mind blowing. Anyone that can multiply and knows the difference between exponential and linear scaling laws should know that this is a serious problem. In 1950 the world population was 4 billion people. By 2000 it's 8 billion. There's absolutely no way that any of this is sustainable even in the immediate term.

[Anonymous No.22476088]

>>22471472
midwit

[Anonymous No.22476090]

>>22476077
And just as an FYI I don't know what the answer is. My take is to make as many mini nuclear power plants as possible and make energy free (as a start). But how is society supposed to be run (who gets what and how are goods and services distributed - in other words, who decides?) other than power and force of arms? Or a return to religions and force of arms by belief driven groups? Will everyone just decide that Elon Musk can raise a private army because he's the one that ended up with the most physical resources when lending stops working? Will it be anarchism and chaos?

I don't know. And all of this is going to happen in my life time. None of the outcomes look good.

[Anonymous No.22476097]

>>22471133
Also, this poster is dope as fuck. I know the movie, but who made the art?

[Anonymous No.22476855]

>The Virgin Fisher
>Typical far-left demoralised beta male cuck, kills himself because his dream utopia will never come true
>The Chad Land
>Married, father of 2, seeing his predictions unfold before his very eyes, lives a cozy life in China shitposting on X (formerly Twitter)

[Anonymous No.22476879]

>>22476077
>There's absolutely no way that any of this is sustainable even in the immediate term.

I find it puzzling when there are people that could readily accept that infinite growth is not sustainable, but if you merely even suggest a reduction in global population, they invariably prop up infinite growth ideology, or at least some stasis thought that does anything but recognize a reduction is inevitable. And I do think it invariably comes down to death anxiety of the system and some weird thought that systems can only adjust in one direction; the latter being a thought ingrained into consumerist ideology.

Really, a lot of the ideological issue is that it's unable to accept mortality and this reflects in how people often react to suggestion of reduction -- specifically in the population; mentioning reduction in consumption is fine, but the amount of consumers and amount of consumption is intrinsic: can't have one without the other.

[Anonymous No.22477169]

>>22471470
>No they don't. They (big corporations) lobby for more regulation and higher taxes on small businesses.
Lobby for what party, there is no political faction that promotes high taxes and regulation but only for small businesses. This is a ridiculous argument.
>If large companies control our government the way you say they do wouldn't we already live in Ancapistan if that's what they wanted?
No, I am saying that the whole narrative of corporations taking over the government to promote higher taxes and deregulations makes no sense and it's the result of Trumptards trying to combine free market advocacy with leftist/populist anti- big business rhetoric.

[Anonymous No.22477180]

>>22472305
That's what I am saying.

[Anonymous No.22477203]

>>22476879
>if you merely even suggest a reduction in global population
I know it's difficult for Marxists to understand derivatives but this started 200 years ago with secularization and birth control. We're late in the game now, and could really use some solutions for increasing birth rates in first world countries. The only population problem today is in Africa, but the neolib technocrats have been working on that for awhile.

[Anonymous No.22477368]

>>22475741
Oh but I own Reflections On Violence, just never finished it

[Anonymous No.22477402]

>>22477368
It's an often-boring collection of rants, but one of the groups he rails against are "humanists" (reform and centrist marxism). He posits transitions from one age to the next that aren't marked by a clean break from the past create dark ages, and he says the humanists and their compromises might create one and neuter class consciousness. The globohomo fits his prediction well. There was no break, but things have changed fundamentally.