/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.22403473]

Boukephalos' edition

>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>22349615

>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>Mέγα τὸ ANE
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

Feel free to write your thoughts/stories/etc... in your target language.

[Anonymous No.22404158]

>>22403473
When does LLPSI get hard? I'm on chapter 32 right now.

[Anonymous No.22404309]

>>22404158
Certain chapters before yours are troublesome to some people, but generally the authentic poetry in chapter 34 is considered the hardest part of the book.

[Anonymous No.22404399]

Where can I find a nicely formatted EPUB edition of the Vulgate?

[Anonymous No.22404627]

>>22404399
isn't it easier to convert it from pdf? the latter is easily found online

[Anonymous No.22404799]

>>22404399
Found this one
>https://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/

[Anonymous No.22405165]

Starting Coptic tomorrow. Wish me luck.

[Anonymous No.22405574]

>>22405165
good luck

[Anonymous No.22405576]

So I was having a conversation with my family as we were clearing the table and putting away leftovers after dinner, and I remarked on apples having been first domesticated in the vicinity of what's now Kazakhstan. My father wondered at my knowing such an apparently obscure bit of trivia, I didn't think it was that remarkable. My mum said "of course, you're an obscure nerd." I joked "Surely you mean a nerd of the obscure, a nerda obscurorum rather than a nerda obscura, if you'll pardon my cod-Latin." But that got me wondering, how would actually say "nerd" in Latin? Would "obsessa" be a decent approximation? (Or "obsessus" for a man.)

[Jon Kolner No.22405580]

>>22405165
Good luck

[Jon Kolner No.22405585]

>>22405576
Nerd is an American colloquialism so you could have just used it as a loan word in that scenario.

[Anonymous No.22405639]

Are there any imitators of Cicero in the Middle Ages?

[Anonymous No.22405929]

>>22405585
Yes, but I mean if you wanted to explain the same concept to an ancient Roman.

[Anonymous No.22406206]

>>22405576
Personally I'd just translate nerd as studiosus + genitive. It lacks the connotation though.
Maybe even make it a superlative since nerd does imply a stronger than normal interest in something.

[Anonymous No.22406420]

>>22406206
Studiosa obscurorum... I suppose it works.

[Anonymous No.22406608]

>>22404158
I'm on the same chapter!!!

[Anonymous No.22406937]

>>22405165
What are you using? I got Lambdin's Introduction to Sahidic Coptic on interlibrary loan and then never opened it lol. But I'd still love to learn at some point

[Anonymous No.22407054]

No one answered me, so I'll ask again: >>22387470

[Anonymous No.22407266]

>>22407054
What do you mean by a synopsis?

[Anonymous No.22407771]

>>22407054
>>22406937
>>22405165
You're learning it purely for Nag Hammadi, right? Or is there anything else that's interesting?

[Anonymous No.22408005]

>>22407266
Apologies; 'Sinopsis' may not be the right word, since it's regarding a literary aspect.
What I meant to ask was a general summary of what is 'Coptic'.

[Anonymous No.22408016]

>>22408005
What are you hoping that people here write for you that you couldn't read on Wikipedia?

[Anonymous No.22408820]

>>22405639
I don't know any, but I would imagine there were lots. Schooling was imitating Cicero.

[Anonymous No.22408849]

>>22407771
I'm Ethiopianon. I am very interested in Nag Hammadi, but I'm also interested in learning a non-Semitic Afro-Asiatic language and reading monastic writings and Manichaean writings.
>>22406937
I'm using Layton. I haven't read it yet, but based on my knowledge of Ge'ez resources, I think Layton will probably be better, no offense to Lamdin. My professor said Layton is better too.

[Anonymous No.22408899]

>>22405639
Sebastian Castellion tried to rewrite the Vulgate in the style of Cicero.

[Anonymous No.22409131]

>>22407771
Just autistic interest. I don't even have any texts in mind that I'd especially like to read

[Anonymous No.22409302]

>>22408005
Saint makes alphabet for Slavs from Greek

[Anonymous No.22409306]

>>22409302
disregard this post, I read Cyrillic like a retard

[Anonymous No.22409448]

Not sure whether finally to pick up Sanskrit or to focus on reaching 1-dan in Go.

[Anonymous No.22409635]

>>22409448
sanskrit and play me in go (8kyu)

[Anonymous No.22409686]

>>22409635
I've long stagnated around 10kyu according to results at my local club. Online is a challenge because I don't like computers. Just made a new Fox account though. My username is stupidbug. Challenge me

[Anonymous No.22409886]

Are there any published works written in dead, classical languages? I'm curious as to whether anyone writes new material in Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Phoenician, Akkadian, Old English, etc. Both fiction and non-fiction is valid but it has to be novel, not just a translation or interpretation of a previously published work (ex. Shakespeare in Klingon, Harry Potter in Latin, etc). My assumption is that they hardly exist and if they do, the writing heavily abuses loanwords from modern language. The anons >>22405576 >>22405585 here made me think of this. To write something new and relevant in a dead language would require extensive contextualization that I don't see many authors bothering with.

One example I can provide may or may not fit this definition. You can find all kinds of bizarre translations of political, scientific, and psychological essays using some kind of machine learning or algorithm-based synthesizer of theoretical dead languages.

https://forgottenlanguages-full.forgottenlanguages.org/

The team of researchers use a program that can do all kinds of things like smash languages together (to study hypothetical ethnic mixing scenarios), revive dead languages or "missing links" so to speak. This doesn't fit my criteria of being new since it's all translations of someone else's material but whatever tool they use clearly takes into account a huge quantity of modern, relevant vocabulary due to its scientific nature. It's also possible the website is an elaborate hoax. I'm too stupid to figure that sort of thing out.

[Anonymous No.22410328]

>>22409886
I recall some Czech guy I think who wrote something like an outer space based epic in dactylic hexameters with Homeric Greek, can't remember the details or the name.

[Anonymous No.22410419]

>>22409886
>>22410328
Yeah, Kresadlo's Astronautilia. It's actually not written in dactylic hexameter which is disappointing.

[Anonymous No.22410761]

>>22409886
Yes, absolutely. For example, I keep a dream journal in Classical Chinese.

[Anonymous No.22410774]

>>22410761
Damn, I'd do that if I could remember my dreams.

[Anonymous No.22410784]

>>22410774
I usually don't.

[Anonymous No.22410914]

>>22410774
So are you studying Classical Chinese too?

[Anonymous No.22411218]

I'm looking into the Nagas and it seems like they're usually associated with Sri Lanka but most of the sources are Indian.
Are the Tamil/Pali/Sinhala speakers here aware of anything that gives more information on them specifically or any mythology around them?

[Anonymous No.22411393]

Ipse Partitus est Hitler. Hitler verum est Germania, ut Germania Hitler est. Hitler, saluta palmam!

Τὸ Κόμμα ἐστί Ἵτληρ. Ὁ δὲ Ἵτληρ ἐστί Γερμανία, ὡς Γερμανία Ἵτληρ ἐστἰ. Ἷτλερ, νίκην ἄσπασαι!

[Anonymous No.22411420]

>>22411393
> Hitler, saluta palmam!

[Anonymous No.22411455]

>>22411393
Vade retro, fascista
βάλλ' εἰς κόρακας, ὦ φασιστά

[Anonymous No.22411475]

>>22411420
>>22411455
Go back to r/classicallanguages
MORS OMNIUM NIGRORUM

[Anonymous No.22411493]

>>22411475
Surely you mean "mortem omnibus nigris"?

[Anonymous No.22411812]

>>22410914
Sadly no, I'm a Latin-only brainlet.
Never studied Classical Chinese, but I've given up on Mandarin before. Not because it was hard, but because I was trying to juggle between several languages and it was starting to take a toll.

[Anonymous No.22411844]

>>22411812
Classical Chinese is probably easier in some ways and harder in others. All the allusions do make it a little tricky.

[Anonymous No.22411864]

>>22411844
I remember reading on /clg/ that knowing Mandarin is something of a requirement since you'll need commentaries to understand most Classical Chinese texts. What do you make of it?

[Anonymous No.22411903]

>>22411864
I think that's stupid. It helps to know at least one modern Sinosphere language (Mandarin or another Sinitic language, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese) but it's not a requirement, any more than you have to know a Romance language to learn Latin. There are resources for Classical Chinese in English, and the traditional commentaries were in Classical Chinese.

[Anonymous No.22411929]

>>22411903
Reiterating from the last time this was brought up that millions of Japanese learn to read Classical Chinese in school by effectively japonicizing it. Though this is very far from ideal, especially for poetry, it's tenable for those who have an interest in Japan and not China.
To go very deep into the subject, some East-Asian language should be required. But almost everything that goes on here should be considered a type of casual readership anyway.

[Anonymous No.22411953]

>>22411929
I think certainly knowing some East Asian language helps, but I don't think it's mandatory.

[Jon Kolner No.22412543]

>>22411393
Kek. Based. Rudolf Hess if he were a Roman senator in 50 BC.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ccmrl

Ceasar Roma east!

[Anonymous No.22412651]

How do you guys study Latin pronunciation? Is picrel any good?

[Anonymous No.22412714]

>>22412651
Yes. The vox series is the gold standard. It should go without saying that you should have a basic knowledge of phonetics and total complex IPA first.

[Anonymous No.22412779]

>>22412714
Thanks bro. I appreciate it

[Anonymous No.22413802]

>>22410419
>It's actually not written in dactylic hexameter
isn't it? the prooimium in wikipedia looks written with hexameters

[Anonymous No.22413942]

>>22413802
yes but not in dactyls

[Anonymous No.22414305]

Doric feels so weird with all those open vowels

[Anonymous No.22414609]

>>22412714
If there were a list of resources on the reconstructed pronunciation of ancient languages in that would anyone be interested in that?

[Anonymous No.22414879]

>>22414609
It would certainly be nice to link whenever the question came up, as it seems to come up frequently enough.

[Anonymous No.22415025]

>>22414879
At least for Latin and Greek, Wikipedia seems like a decent introduction, both for 'what did they sound like' and 'how do we know'.

[Anonymous No.22415238]

αὐτάρ is the most beautiful word in Homer and perhaps literature in general.

[Anonymous No.22415597]

>>22415238
why do you say that? i haven't gotten very far with my homer yet.

[Anonymous No.22415634]

>>22403473
I was thinking about learning Latin to improve my grasp of the English language. Is worth learning for this alone?

[Anonymous No.22415659]

>>22415634
Not really. There are good reasons to learn Latin, but if you just wanna get better at English, study English.

[Anonymous No.22415676]

>>22415634
No, it's an interesting side effect and I have a habit of boring people by telling them all about Latin vocabulary in English, but it isn't close to being a worthwhile reason in and of itself.

[Anonymous No.22415680]

>>22415659
>>22415676
not even for just English vocabulary?

[Anonymous No.22415695]

>>22415680
If you want to learn English vocabulary study English vocabulary. Perhaps study Latin roots. But actually learning Latin grammar, syntax, habits of speech etc won't help you much.

[Anonymous No.22415704]

Should I learn Roman Latin or church Latin

[Anonymous No.22415724]

>>22415680
it's interesting to know how words like transfer and translate come from the same irregular verb 'to carry', but it's not worth spending hundreds of hours learning a language just to improve your vocab knowledge in your native tongue

[Anonymous No.22416477]

>>22415634
If you're doing it for a test then no, just learn roots.
But if it is for self-edification and improving your grasp of English and languages in general then yes. It is difficult but very rewarding. Ignore the naysayers.

[Anonymous No.22416544]

Any anons learning two languages at once? I am studying French, and trying to pick up Latin on the side.

[Anonymous No.22417006]

Any recommended resources for learning the Greek alphabet?

[Anonymous No.22417080]

>>22417006
wikipedia

[Anonymous No.22417108]

>>22417006
Duolingo.

[Anonymous No.22417193]

How many languages can a person learn just for reading purposes?

[Anonymous No.22417220]

>>22417193
Exactly 4

[Anonymous No.22417243]

>>22417193
Depends on the person. Up to 8, I'd say.

[Anonymous No.22417256]

>>22417193
as many as you have the time for. language acquisition becomes easier the more you know about languages.

[Anonymous No.22417312]

>>22417220
>>22417243
How did you come up with this number?

[Anonymous No.22417428]

omnes de feminae conscire necesse esse in uno colloquium

[Anonymous No.22417507]

>>22415238
I love Homeric Greek so much bros

[Anonymous No.22417870]

>>22416477
it was strictly for personal reasons. Has nothing to do with school or testing.

[Anonymous No.22418050]

>>22417006
You can learn it in one day on duolingo

[Anonymous No.22418078]

>>22412651
>classical
always feels like im the only one learning using the ecclesiastical pronunciation here...

[Anonymous No.22418219]

>>22417193
There is no limit other than time and effort.

[Anonymous No.22418248]

>>22415597
Simultaneity of action. In particular, the sweet pagan lie of active, interested gods leans so much on that word. Wily, divine Odysseus rests, overcome with fatigue and sleep; αὐτάρ Athena comes down from Olympus to his aid. In some moods those lines might bring tears to my eyes.

[Anonymous No.22418569]

Entering my 3rd year of my classics degree. Is there any hope at the end? At this point, the only things I can do after my degree are hope I get into grad school or teach English in China. Fucking sucks. Any advice?

[Anonymous No.22418916]

>>22418569
Everyone is fucked once we collectively realize that personalized advertising does not justify the collective effort we've poured into it.
Just enjoy the ride, anon, and learn to teach. Find something else fulfilling down the line. Everyone will have to at some point.

[Anonymous No.22419074]

>>22416477
No, in general you should learn the language you want to learn, not learn another language just for the sake of learning the language you actually want to learn.

[Anonymous No.22419083]

>>22417428
*de feminis
*in uno colloquio

[Anonymous No.22419088]

>>22417108
>>22418050
Wouldn't that be teaching the modern Greek pronunciation? Which may be what the person wants, but may not.

[Anonymous No.22419092]

>>22417428
>>22419083
Would also add
*omnia

[Anonymous No.22419101]

>>22417006
http://atticgreek.org/pronunc/pronunc_guide.html

[Anonymous No.22419117]

>>22418078
I initially started teaching myself with ecclesiastical pronunciation but then when I took a semester in college my professor asked me to switch to Classical in class because it's what everyone else, including him, was used to. Not sure what I'd use if I finally got around to picking Latin back up. I considered teaching myself using traditional English pronunciation but decided against it because no one would understand me.

[Anonymous No.22419160]

Do you guys also follow the rules of poetic contraction when you speak Latin IRL?
I do. This is how I sound:
>Iam destinat'erat'egregio iuveni, iam'electus nuptiarum dies, iam nos vocati. Quod gaudium quo maerore mutatum'st!

[Anonymous No.22419330]

i really want to read meditations
should i read it now or read it once i can properly read it in koine greek?

[Anonymous No.22419340]

>>22419330
Translations are fine for casual readership of prose. Originals become necessary for deeper readings and any and all poetry.

[Anonymous No.22419346]

I humbly invite you to my Tacitus thread
>>22419288
>>22419288
>>22419288

[Anonymous No.22419347]

>>22419340
Depends on the quality of the translation and the languages, but yes.

[Anonymous No.22419434]

>>22418248
pretentious faggot

[Anonymous No.22419440]

>>22418569
I have a Classics degree and teach English in Japan. Less pay than China but better quality of life

[Anonymous No.22419850]

>>22419330
If you already have a basic grasp of Greek grammar, then reading it now. Reading texts you actually want to read is how you stay motivated to learn languages, and they will help cement your grammar and vocab knowledge way better than reading another textbook

[Anonymous No.22421116]

>>22419083
>>22419092
You are most learned, magister. Should conscire be an accusative gerund as the subject in the indirect clause?

[Anonymous No.22421120]

>>22421116
Not sure, my Latin isn't great but also the original sentence is pretty badly mangled to the point that it's hard to tell what it means except by context.

[Anonymous No.22421123]

>>22421116
>>22421120
Also *magistra (one of the people you're replying to, I don't know about the other one)

[Anonymous No.22421804]

it's too hot to read Greek

[Anonymous No.22421836]

does anyone get scared advancing to the next chapter of his graded reader

[Anonymous No.22421893]

>>22421836
ille niga timet librum.

[Anonymous No.22422129]

>>22421836
it always feels a bit intimidating at first. what are you reading?

[Anonymous No.22422188]

>>22419088
It is very easy to switch from modern Greek to Homeric Greek pronounciation but probably not the other way around
t. Greek

Or if he wants some Classical/Hellenistic pronounciation then this was closer to modern than to Homeric times.

[Anonymous No.22423231]

>>22419160
happens also in Plotinus' Latin, it would be normal even outside of poetry
I try to, it flows better

[Anonymous No.22423386]

>>22423231
>Plotinus
*Plautus

[Anonymous No.22424238]

>>22415634
You should only really learn Latin if you actually want to read/write in Latin. Personally I never understood spending the time and effort reaching yourself purely for etymological reason because apart from the occasional "oh neato I now know which Latin word this English word comes from" there's not much else you're going to get out of it.

[Anonymous No.22424266]

>>22415634
I'm going to have to partly agree and partly disagree with >>22424238 in that Latin utterly transformed the way I view language and vastly improved my processing of language and texts in general and I would still benefit from this if I didn't read any Latin anymore.

I think Latin is like math, it's one of those universal things every kid should learn or they should be beaten to death.

[Anonymous No.22424348]

>>22421836
>scared
it's a fucking book you pussy. this general gets more pathetic every day.
You're reading words on a page in a language known for thousands of years. Grow up

[Anonymous No.22425004]

Is it safe to learn Greek? I'm worried that I'll permanently fuck myself up.

[Anonymous No.22425101]

>>22417193
How many languages can a person learn just for reading purposes?
>>22417220
>4
>>22417243
>8
>>22417312
Both anons are technically right. You can probably read 4 "fluently" and another 4 relatively competently with a dictionary, but not anywhere near the rate of the first 4. And the later 4 would probably best be limited to languages where you have only one text you are reading like the Koran or Beowulf for Arabic and OE respectively.

[Anonymous No.22425135]

>>22425004
;;;;

[Anonymous No.22425253]

>>22425101
Four is too pessimistic, especially if those languages are closely related.
An extreme case would be a Norwegian who learned Spanish to a high level (besides English), and could then with little effort add Portuguese, Danish, and Swedish.

Fluently reading Italian or Dutch, or even French or German might then be a realistic possibility, if he puts the effort in.

[Anonymous No.22425451]

she do be a lil chubtrīx tho

[Anonymous No.22425493]

are any of you anons in a classics or other humanities grad program or were in one at one point? I was wondering because I'm a first year grad student and am worried about screwing it up - on multiple fronts but mainly because of my political beliefs. I already know some of the staff are pretty left-leaning and imagine most of not all of my peers are too (at least one of my peers who is a teaching assistant in the same course I am this semester is a trans "man/thing"). I'm only in a master's program, so, assuming everything goes according to plan, I'll only have to endure about a year and a half in total of these people, but i just don't want my political differences to ruin my financial offers or my enrollment altogether (I had another trans peer in my undergrad who was known for complaining to the dean for less than "transphobic" views). I plan on trying to figure out how to be around them as little as possible, and while I'm not happy/proud about it, I will probably lie about my politics if I have to. I was hoping one or more anons could tell me about their experience if they had any in this sort of situation and whether I'm just overthinking it.

in other news, I recently started Ovid's Metamorphoses and am pleasantly surprised how much of the meter and content im able to get on the first read, especially considered I haven't read any Latin for a couple months. what're y'allz'z reading?

[Anonymous No.22425603]

>>22425493
>I'll only have to endure about a year and a half in total of these people
What are you going to do with a grad degree in Classics? Teaching in any capacity will put you in direct contact with those freaks. Universities are pozzed and will only get more so.
As far as your politics leave them at home. Assuming you are white and male you already have two strikes against you in academia's eyes. Don't give any ammunition for more. Keep your mouth shut and head down, focus on your studies and your work. You might not have to outright lie but you will have to choose your words carefully and talk around subjects.

[Anonymous No.22425674]

what did crowd sourced "knowledge" mean by this

[Anonymous No.22426050]

>>22424266
Was Latin the first foreign language you learned? I think learning any language other than your own gives you a lot of new perspective on language in general.

[Anonymous No.22426058]

>>22425493
>(at least one of my peers who is a teaching assistant in the same course I am this semester is a trans "man/thing")
Conservative trans people do exist, you know, take Caitlyn Jenner for instance. Statistically, this person is probably decently liberal, because academia leans liberal, but you can't assume they are just because they're trans.

[Anonymous No.22426317]

>>22425603
>what are you going to do with a grad degree in classics? teaching in any capacity will put you in direct contract with those freaks
my first option is to teach, yes, but not at a university level. at a secondary level, while it's not like I'll realistically be able to avoid those people 100%, the odds of dealing with them is diminished and I have more sayso over whether I associate with this group or that (assuming I have multiple job offers). plus based on my financial support, if I play my cards right and don't start living any sort of lavished life, I'll be pocketing $20K+. I'm relatively young, so if classics doesn't pan out, assuming I play my social cards right as well, I'll have some financial freedom to go elsewhere
>As far as your politics leave them at home. Assuming you are white and male you already have two strikes against you in academia's eyes. Don't give any ammunition for more. Keep your mouth shut and head down, focus on your studies and your work. You might not have to outright lie but you will have to choose your words carefully and talk around subjects
yeah I think this is the best thing to do. I do take my academics seriously, but I could certainly improve in different ways; and I can also stress my academic "rigor" to my professors and peers such that they reduce my lack of interest or tendency not to offer to spend time with them outside of class to how seriously I take my coursework. perhaps it will be relatively easy to do this, I just haven't officially started the semester yet to find out. at any rate I'll do what I can
>Conservative trans people do exist, you know, take Caitlyn Jenner for instance. Statistically, this person is probably decently liberal, because academia leans liberal, but you can't assume they are just because they're trans.
that's fair, but I've seen their social media and was in a teaching assistant workshop with them and saw how they responded to some of the progressive talking points and questions posed by the instructors of the workshop, so I know they're a progressive

[Anonymous No.22426338]

>>22425603
>what are you going to do with a grad degree in classics? teaching in any capacity will put you in direct contract with those freaks
my first option is to teach, yes, but not at a university level. at a secondary level, while it's not like I'll realistically be able to avoid those people 100%, the odds of dealing with them is diminished and I have more sayso over whether I associate with this group or that (assuming I have multiple job offers). plus based on my financial support, if I play my cards right and don't start living any sort of lavished life, I'll be pocketing $20K+. I'm relatively young, so if classics doesn't pan out, assuming I play my social cards right as well, I'll have some financial freedom to go elsewhere
>As far as your politics leave them at home. Assuming you are white and male you already have two strikes against you in academia's eyes. Don't give any ammunition for more. Keep your mouth shut and head down, focus on your studies and your work. You might not have to outright lie but you will have to choose your words carefully and talk around subjects
yeah I think this is the best thing to do. I do take my academics seriously, but I could certainly improve in different ways; and I can also stress my academic "rigor" to my professors and peers such that they reduce my lack of interest or tendency not to offer to spend time with them outside of class to how seriously I take my coursework. perhaps it will be relatively easy to do this, I just haven't officially started the semester yet to find out. at any rate I'll do what I can
>>22426058
>Conservative trans people do exist, you know, take Caitlyn Jenner for instance. Statistically, this person is probably decently liberal, because academia leans liberal, but you can't assume they are just because they're trans.
that's fair, but I've seen their social media and was in a teaching assistant workshop with them and saw how they responded to some of the progressive talking points and questions posed by the instructors of the workshop, so I know they're a progressive

[Anonymous No.22426743]

What textbook did you guys use for Greek? I'm looking for something akin to Wheelock's Latin.
Friends recommended me From Alpha to Omega, which looks similar enough. But I'd like to know about the alternatives too.

[Anonymous No.22426791]

>>22426743
>grammar-translation
ISHYGGDT

[Anonymous No.22426831]

>>22426743
>>22426791
by far the best method to learn attic greek is to work through a book like alpha to omega or hansen & quinn and then reading a graded reader to build up your reading fluency.
having a strong grasp of the grammar and being able to "see" how it all fits together also makes learning other languages easier. picking up greek after reading llpsi pretty much means starting from zero but having wheelock under your belt will makes things a lot smoother.

[Anonymous No.22426874]

>>22426831
What's wrong with something like Athenaze?

[Anonymous No.22426889]

>>22426791
Using textbooks doesn't mean you ascribe to the grammar-translation method. Knowing the grammar of a language doesn't mean you transverbalise while reading.
Anyone who's succeeded in reaching a decent level in the language of their choice will tell you that using a textbook and a reader is the way to go. That's what I did by using both Wheelock and LLPSI back when I was learning Latin, and that's what >>22426831 is advising me to do with regards to Greek.

[Anonymous No.22426900]

>>22426889
Isn't Wheelock literary designed for grammar-translation?

[Anonymous No.22426912]

>>22426900
Yes, but you can just read the grammar bits, then try to read and understand the sentences and excerpts without translating them.
I never picked up a pen while working my way through Wheelock. I would even translate the English sentences in my head before checking the key.

[Anonymous No.22426914]

Please. Don't.

[Anonymous No.22426948]

>>22426912
Fair enough, it just seems like it would be easier to use a textbook designed to be conducive to your method of learning.

[Anonymous No.22427056]

>>22426874
i don't think it does a good job giving the student strong fundamentals. however it (especially the italian edition) is great as a graded reader.

[Anonymous No.22427078]

>>22427056
What do you mean by strong fundamentals?

[Anonymous No.22427092]

>>22427078
the tools you need to start reading authentic texts comfortably

[Anonymous No.22427098]

>>22427092
those being?

[Anonymous No.22427104]

>>22427098
All of them

[Anonymous No.22427126]

>>22427098
in short: both deep knowledge and intuitive understanding of grammar and a strong core vocabulary. a good grammar book and the italian athenaze should cover these bases.

[Anonymous No.22427148]

>>22427104
your mother
>>22427126
I went through Athenaze, not even the Italian one (though I do have a pdf of it) and picked up some Plato and felt pretty comfortable all things considered. Xenophon and Lysias have been even easier

[Anonymous No.22427247]

>>22427126
I think explicit knowledge of grammar may be less helpful than you think.

[Anonymous No.22428345]

>page 10

[Anonymous No.22428551]

>>22426338
Even in high school the pozz is real. You seem to be unaware of how quickly things have 'progressed'. Not dissuading you but go in knowing that in any teaching capacity you will be dealing with them for much longer than a year and a half.
>I can also stress my academic "rigor" to my professors and peers such that they reduce my lack of interest or tendency not to offer to spend time with them outside of class to how seriously I take my coursework
I hope you are in one of the few universities that still takes this seriously. You will be able to graduate from any but if you don't play high school tier social games, hobnob, pander and kowtow to the progressive idols you will be shut out from any advancement career wise. Be prepared for other grad students to backstab you as well. Academia is cutthroat and Classics particularly so due to waning influence, lack of funding and a complete twisting of purpose. You may be a young Werner Jaeger but Classics is no longer looking for Werner Jaeger, it wants Tyquonisha (they/them).
All that said your best bet is to put everything into your studies. Coursework, teaching, tutoring, theses, etc. Be meticulous and flawless. Be zealous in your pursuit of academic excellence and rigor. Be the person other students want to be, someone undergrads and professors look up to and respect. That will go a long way towards mitigating the inevitable fallout when you decline to attend a rally for dilating axe wounds.

[Anonymous No.22428556]

>>22426743
>From Alpha to Omega
It will do but there are far better options. Mastronarde's introduction to Attic Greek is my recommendation. I've heard the Reading Greek series is good as well.
Alpha to Omega was my first Greek textbook

[Anonymous No.22428562]

>>22426914
Too late, they show up every thread

[Anonymous No.22428646]

>>22428551
>You seem to be unaware of how quickly things have 'progressed'.
that could very well be true. I mean it's obvious there are a lot of woke-minded secondary schools, but there seem to be less of them than of universities and/or more is seemingly being done about it on the communal and governmental front. I certainly don't have any assumptions that I will somehow be able to avoid these people in their entirety: at the very least I just like my options more. and should I get a secondary schooling job, I'm less concerned about any potential backlash for my political beliefs at that point; I moreso just don't want to fuck up this opportunity for an easy five figures
>I hope you are in one of the few universities that still takes this seriously. You will be able to graduate from any but if you don't play high school tier social games, hobnob, pander and kowtow to the progressive idols you will be shut out from any advancement career wise. Be prepared for other grad students to backstab you as well. Academia is cutthroat and Classics particularly so due to waning influence, lack of funding and a complete twisting of purpose. You may be a young Werner Jaeger but Classics is no longer looking for Werner Jaeger, it wants Tyquonisha (they/them)
sounds bleak, but I appreciate the bluntness. to clarify I'm "black" (technically mixed, but most people seem to consider me as black, though I don't identify with the term or hardly care about my race as it is). so, I think that could give me some leeway in my aversion of my colleagues and any woke activities they propose. how far I can use that to my advantage though remains to be seen
>All that said your best bet is to put everything into your studies. Coursework, teaching, tutoring, theses, etc. Be meticulous and flawless. Be zealous in your pursuit of academic excellence and rigor. Be the person other students want to be, someone undergrads and professors look up to and respect. That will go a long way towards mitigating the inevitable fallout when you decline to attend a rally for dilating axe wounds
I appreciate the advice, and I think you're right. I really intend to just put my nose to the grindstone and perhaps I can make it out with no major problems or hinderances. I also plan to work out more of a backup plan should thinks turn sour sooner rather than later. we'll see how it goes

[Anonymous No.22428703]

>>22428556
Thanks, I'll check Mastronarde out.

[Anonymous No.22429039]

>>22428646
>I'm "black"
>though I don't identify with the term
Man start doing so, Classics departments will worship the ground you walk on. You don't have to go full on Zulu Nation but check that box on all applications. If you put your nose to the grindstone as stated and are black there will be no limit to what you can do. Even demented troons and pink haired faggots will be unable to hinder you. You will still have to hold your tongue of course, all the previous advice applies. You will also have to deal with sycophants praising you as their pet token and being invited to conferences and such solely due to your skin color. This is not knocking your academics, rather just how things are in universities these days. Take advantage of it, swallow your pride and use the system to your own benefit.
Also avoid crack and malt liquor

[Anonymous No.22429175]

>>22426058
Conservatives are just libs but with a bit different aesthetic
All americans are leftards

[Anonymous No.22430376]

pig disgusting comes from the late Latin, pigere desgustus

[Anonymous No.22430654]

>>22430376
ὑπερξυνετώτατε βατρχάγγελε

[Anonymous No.22431176]

>Nūllum rēctum est vocābulum
How does the Roman mind accept this kind of syntax?

[Anonymous No.22431625]

>>22418569
You'll have options in academia if you go for a graduate degree.

[Anonymous No.22432415]

>>22429039
>man start doing so... swallow your pride and use the system to your own benefit
initially I didn't want to, and I still don't completely feel okay with it, but I probably should just say fuck it and play the token character they want me to be - at least within reason. I can repent for it later
>also avoid crack and malt liquor
for whatever reason I've always had this skin-deep temptation to get addicted to them and become a menace to society, and I was just on the verge of doing so, but your advice has swayed me anon. I am forever in your gratitude

[Anonymous No.22433379]

>page 10
You wankers think you're so much better, just because you can (roughly) speak a dead language which few people care about, don't you?
Yet here is your general almost hitting rock bottom.

[Anonymous No.22433394]

Also, dang modder. Why delete those posts, and why only now?

[Anonymous No.22433536]

>>22433379
there is no greater intellectual cuckold than the man who must rely on the translation of another

[Anonymous No.22433636]

>>22432415
It's a different situation, but yellow man here.
I don't give a damn about Japan. My jomon ancestors were barbarians playing with clay when Greece had already reached the pinnacle of civilization.
I can never say anything remotely on this wavelength publicly, and everyone expects statements comparing the execution of Socrates to Japanese internment or whatever bullshit. I really do not care.
But if I'm the vessel needed to transit safely a tradition greater than myself another generation, so be it. I'll do the song and dance.

[Anonymous No.22433681]

>tfw neglected greek for 2 months

[Anonymous No.22434069]

>>22433636
shut up chinaman before I hate crime you, as we blacks are wont to do
>I don't give a damn about Japan. My jomon ancestors were barbarians playing with clay when Greece had already reached the pinnacle of civilization...and everyone expects statements comparing the execution of Socrates to Japanese internment or whatever bullship. I really do not care
I feel you anon. I've never given a fuck about Africa let alone "blackness" - whatever the fuck that even means. in fact, the incessant push for people to care - and more specifically someone like me to make it the center of who I am and what I do - has made me more indignantly opposed to it. intersectionality and "inclusivity" (as typical leftists understand it) are truly a cancer in this world.
>I can never say anything remotely on this wavelength publicly... but if I'm the vessel needed to transit safely a tradition greater than another generation, so be it. I'll do the song and dance
what exactly is your situation, if I could ask? presumably you're in academia, but are you an undergrad, graduate, or a teacher/professor of some sort?
>>22433681
let me help get you back track, anon. picrel is a dog

[Anonymous No.22434091]

>>22433636
shut up chinaman before I hate crime you, as we blacks are wont to do
>I don't give a damn about Japan. My jomon ancestors were barbarians playing with clay when Greece had already reached the pinnacle of civilization...and everyone expects statements comparing the execution of Socrates to Japanese internment or whatever bullship. I really do not care
I feel you anon. I've never given a fuck about Africa let alone "blackness" - whatever the fuck that even means. in fact, the incessant push for people to care - and more specifically someone like me to make it the center of who I am and what I do - has made me more indignantly opposed to it. intersectionality and "inclusivity" (as typical leftists understand it) are truly a cancer in this world. just let me be an autist about specific ancient languages and philosophy without having to bring other shit into it
>I can never say anything remotely on this wavelength publicly... but if I'm the vessel needed to transit safely a tradition greater than another generation, so be it. I'll do the song and dance
what exactly is your situation, if I could ask? presumably you're in academia, but are you an undergrad, graduate, or a teacher/professor of some sort?
>>22433681
let me help get you back on track, anon: picrel is a dog

[Anonymous No.22434128]

>>22403473
What are the benefits of learning latin? I don't want to learn a new language unless it has some concrete benefit like maybe better access to literature or really anything substantial.

[Anonymous No.22434488]

today I learned Aeolic first aorist participle active ending masculine is -αις instead of -ᾱς

[Anonymous No.22434529]

>>22434488
interesting. I'm not too familiar with non-Attic dialects, the only real "dialect" I'm familiar with is Homeric Greek, but at least linguistically that makes sense. you see a lot of diphthongization, specifically of already long monophthongs, across languages

[Anonymous No.22434886]

>>22434529
you know, actually I'm not even sure what dialect pic related is supposed to be, first I thought the usual Doric/West Greek due to the lack of ᾱ -> η, but then those -αις resembling the optative were not making any sense, plus the weird accent in ἄπο made me think about Aeolic, and the latter does supposedly compensate lengthening with αι but now I'm not sure

[Anonymous No.22435813]

>>22434128
>What are the benefits of learning latin? I don't want to learn a new language unless it has some concrete benefit like maybe better access to literature or really anything substantial.
Most people who learn classical languages do so out of a passion for culture, history, and aesthetics which you clearly don't have. I can't think of anything more pathetic then asking someone to convince you to learn something and then giving a preemptive ultimatum threatening not to listen to them unless you are thoroughly convinced.

[Anonymous No.22436282]

>>22434091
>shut up chinaman before I hate crime you, as we blacks are wont to do
It's okay as long as it gets filmed by some passers by. Gavin Newsom and Eric Adams will cut us both fat checks.
To be frank, anon, this dilemma is hardly a dilemma. All thinking or creating or otherwise autistic people of all ages have had to learn to smile, pay lip service, and keep quiet when needed. This is the tax on doing what you enjoy.
You do not have to be their cheerleader. You only need to be the absolute best at what you do, and they will leave you alone like you leave them alone. Being the best is achievable if you're decently clever, obsessed with what you do, and put in at least 8/10 effort, because pink haired grievance collectors are only putting in 5/10 effort at best, guaranteed.
Eventually, you may be able to say at least part of what's on your mind uninterrupted. See John McWhorter. But first you have to be safely the best.

>presumably you're in academia, but are you an undergrad, graduate, or a teacher/professor of some sort?
Former teacher, now tech drone. I will teach again someday, but for now my family needs me to make money. Teaching seems really awful until one considers other work.

[Anonymous No.22436502]

I'm disillusioned with latin, actually I'm disillusioned with Rome in general. It seems like everything the Romans created was just a variation of something the Greeks already did. And when they managed to make something new, it's just not as deep as the works of their predecessors.

Can someone refute me?

[Anonymous No.22436554]

>>22436502
That is an oversimplification. The Latin character, concerned not only with mastery but with stability, and moreover with straight roads, indeed never reached the sublimity of pure belief in pure beauty found in Homer. Neither, however, have we, nor any Westerners since, with the exception of the also Greek Gospels. The rustic, practical Latins represent the purest grappling with this unbearable weight, and the earliest distillation of the Western self. We cannot possibly think like Homer or Paul, but in our ugliness we can easily think like scheming politicians or mercenary lovers comparing kisses to pennies. And that is why we study Latin.
Moreover, your post sounds like the intrusive thoughts of someone burned out with study. You can take a break, but don't think for a moment it's the material that's at fault: it's always us spiritually stultified moderns who are. When we tire and question the material is when we push harder.

[Anonymous No.22436679]

>>22431176
nullum is determiner/adjective (idk), rectum is adjective, vocabulum is noun. whats it matter the order really, it can't really be confused for anything

[Anonymous No.22437208]

>>22436502
Learn greek as well as latin, why settle for just one?

[Anonymous No.22437784]

>Is (Arion) diu apud Periandrum Corinthiorum regem versatus erat.
What is meant by versare in this context?

[Anonymous No.22437813]

>>22437784
be with/spend time with/etc....
versari ~ be
>Difficili in loco versor, Cicero(I'm in an impasse/difficulty)

[Anonymous No.22438289]

>>22429175
What are you talking about? America barely has a left wing, we have a center-right party and a far-right party, and a few moderate lefties on the fringe of the center-right party.

[Anonymous No.22438743]

Any good resources for Greek theater online?
listening to the chorus is very enjoyable but i cant really find much beyond a few plays.

[Anonymous No.22439750]

pump

[Anonymous No.22439820]

>>22438289
You're both correct in a way. Conservatives are "liberal" in the sense that they support a a free market system and (most) believe in liberal democracy. Which is to say the right wing in the U.S agrees with the left on underlying principles--that government ought to be based in popular sovereignty and natural rights.
But they differ on how to actually enact those principles.

[Anonymous No.22440180]

Learning Greek and Latin at the same time in three months.

Tell me I won't make it and be amazed when I do.

[Anonymous No.22440187]

>>22440180
>Learning Greek and Latin at the same time
>in three months.
You'd be better off spending the next 3 months on Latin and starting Greek afterwards as planned.

[Anonymous No.22440188]

>>22440187
I wanna finish Greek and Latin as fast as possible so I can start Japanese and Chinese and focus on those for years. I doubt Greek and Latin will be that hard considering I already know English, Spanish, Portuguese, French and German.

[Anonymous No.22440215]

>>22440188
>I already know English, Spanish, Portuguese, French and German.
This makes my point even better that you should focus on Latin and bang it out of the way quickly since it will be easy for you and also because Greek is a different animal than any of the languages you named. It's cute that you learned German, but Greek has 240 verb forms and you just come across as cocky and unserious.

If you want to learn these languages so you can actually use them, then you wouldn't be in a rush. If you just want to check a box to impress people, then get an English root word etymology book and then lie to people that you know Latin and Greek instead.

[Anonymous No.22440888]

Ego habeo duos annos discendo lingua latinam, quare nec illic nullus populos qui loquitur latinum super internexus? Cogito quod hoc lingia est pulcherrima et quod magic populus debet discere et loquier latinus. Quam difficile esset docere alii homines?

[Anonymous No.22441048]

>>22440888
Go study more. You made mistakes in every clause.

[Anonymous No.22441098]

>>22440888
Prorsus non intellego ullum a te scripti, qua causa in linguis flexivis loquendis haudquaquam intellegi possis nisi praeceptas declinationum apte sequaris.
Sum autem curiosus sciendi mehercle quid dicere voluisti. Potesne mihi Anglice iterare?

[Anonymous No.22441214]

Why do people want to write Latin before they have read a single authentic text in full?

[Anonymous No.22441365]

>>22440180
>>22440188
>Tell me I won't make it
>I wanna finish Greek and Latin as fast as possible
you won't make it because your heart's not in it. with your experience you might get latin down in about two months of serious study but greek will take you at least four months, and that's me being generous.

[Anonymous No.22441367]

>>22441214
it's fun and good for learning

[Anonymous No.22441439]

>>22440888
nigga tace the hell your os

[Anonymous No.22441440]

Evens: keep reading Ovid today
Odds: drill Greek declensions
0: do both

[Anonymous No.22441817]

>>22440888
When people say they've mastered Latin in 4 months, this is how I imagine them writing.

[Anonymous No.22441864]

>>22440888
latine hactenus ipse intellexi versa: duos annos didici linguam latinam, quam ob rem nulla in patria publice adhibetur lingua latina praeter medium interretiale? duco ipse pulcherrimam esse linguam hanc atque oportere plurimos discere loquique. Estne tam difficile impetratu alios homines docere?

[Anonymous No.22442205]

>>22440215
>Greek has 240 verb forms
And? Every child and village idiot in ancient Greece spoke it fluently, how hard can it be? :)

[Anonymous No.22442403]

>>22440188
I hope this is a very elaborate troll.
Are you trying to better yourself? This isn't how.
Is this some autistic exercise? Might as well play video games.
Are you trying to impress people? Stop.
Pick up a stack of books and really read them without *ever* letting anyone find out. Delete whatever social media you have and stay off all of it, including this site. Whatever you're doing right now clearly isn't doing you any good.

[Anonymous No.22442436]

>>22440188
Hey, let me also throw this in.
I *am* ethnically Japanese and I really don't think you know what you're getting into with Japanese and Chinese. The issue is not linguistic. It's not even surface-level cultural: any bugman unsocialized enough to browse 4chan can eventually learn to bow and defer to elders. The problem is that you are almost certainly distracting yourself and dislocating (or very possibly running away from) your own identity in the process. I recognize this path, and it leads nowhere good.
Let me give you a suggestion. I know you don't actually "know" all those languages in the commonly understood sense. You probably have an okay foundation in at least most, though. Now pick one and only one out of genuine care and master it to complete spontaneous, conversational fluency. Do not tell anyone that you are working on this. In fact, don't ever brag to anyone about anything. Learn to recognize when you want to do this and hold your tongue. Stop bragging to the people you've certainly been bragging to already, and they'll forget it all very fast. You will probably lose a lot of people in your life who were not doing you much good, and to whom you were certainly not doing any good, anyway.

[Anonymous No.22442482]

>>22442436
>You will probably lose a lot of people in your life who were not doing you much good, and to whom you were certainly not doing any good, anyway.
What do you mean?

[Anonymous No.22442496]

>>22442482
Once you discard a superficial identity and way of life, you will find out very quickly. The flipside is that if you don't, you will find out more slowly and much more painfully and possibly never realize what happened or what you did wrong. No more of this now. Get off this damn website.

[Anonymous No.22442717]

>>22441098

Rideo, quod cogito tu intellegis quid scripsi. Declinationes sunt durissimas pars Latinae, sed cogito syntaxis meus (praesertim conjugationes verba mei) est acceptabilis. Semper potes utor Google Translate si non me intellegis :^)

>>22441817

>"""Mastered""" :’^)

I like to consider myself intermediate.

>>22441864

Gratias (magister?)! Sed… cogito quod hoc modo de scribere est plus antiquus et complicatus et provectus sicut Cicero!

Thank you everybody for the attention on my last post. For a little clarification, ever since I read Longinus’ On the Sublime I’ve always wanted to write Latin in a clear and modern style that would be intelligible for non-speakers like in Hans Ørberg's Lingua Latina. My intentions with the language are creative, more on the poetry side, though I do want to get good enough one day to start teaching others online and get attention.

If it helps, I’m already fluent in Spanish and French (and learning Italian and German here and there) and all the Romance languages basically have the same grammar rules as Latin so I just apply modern Romance language grammar and syntax to Latin while writing it in English.

For the past two years I’ve mostly been translating Latin to English to build a solid understanding of it and it’s only very recently that I’m daring to write some of my own Latin on my own.

Some of my favorite writers who I think have the most lucid forms of Latin are Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus and Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis, though most of what I tend to read is classical Latin, Spanish, French, English, Italian, and German poetry and philosophy. The individual writers I study the most are the love elegists Ovid, Propertius, and Catullus.

[Anonymous No.22442725]

>>22442205
>And? Every child and village idiot in ancient Greece spoke it fluently, how hard can it be? :)
Yeah you should learn Attic by watching dubs of Disney songs on YouTube.

[Anonymous No.22442762]

>>22442717

I smile, that I be know you know which I wrote. Declinations are the hardests part of the Latin, but I think mine σύνταξις (especially conjugations verbs mine) be receivable. You can forever I use GOOGLE TRANSLATE if you don't me comprehend :^)

> intermediate

You're not within leagues of intermediate friendo.

[Anonymous No.22442772]

>>22442496
Are you saying that people will start abandoning you once you discard superficial identity?

[Anonymous No.22442783]

LEARN LATIN/GREEK: THE EASY WAY

1.) Buy a grammar, buy a dictionary for each. This will set you back about 40$.

2.) Read the grammar for each a few times, probably three times if you're really smart, maybe six or seven times if you're a bit denser.

3.) Get a Loeb of whatever author you want to read. READ THE ENGLISH PAGE FIRST, then read the Greek/Latin. Go back and forth like this. Read the Loeb multiple times, on the three/six or seven system depending on your aptitude.

4.) Do this for another Loeb, then another, and so on.

Within a year, you'll be able to read Greek and Latin pretty damn well. Any other method is almost a waste of time. The Loeb is key. This is how real academics learn Latin/Greek. They use the Loebs as a crutch, and then in almost no time you can read the original straight off.

[Anonymous No.22442803]

>>22442783
>Get a Loeb of whatever author you want to read. READ THE ENGLISH PAGE FIRST, then read the Greek/Latin.
Did this after finishing both LLPSI and Wheelocks. I even picked up a supposedly easy Loeb (Cornelius Nepos, iirc) and still got filtered by the fucking intro.

[Anonymous No.22442809]

>>22442803
So, I guess I'm asking if I did something wrong

[Anonymous No.22442815]

>>22442803

Yeah that's because you can't read Latin yet and you have to READ THE ENGLISH FIRST, then the Latin. Of course it won't make sense all at once, just keep proceeding in this way, always reading the English first, and it will start to click over the course of a few months.

[Anonymous No.22442820]

>>22442717

You've been studying Latin for two years and you don't know the declensions? Dude you can learn the declensions in a couple of hours, wtf have you been doing with your time?

I can imagine you now, with your "Latin book" open on your desk inbetween empty packages of Chester's Hot Fries, picking at your earwax with a ball-point pen.

[Anonymous No.22442824]

>>22442815
Okay, I'll give this another shot next week. I was reading the english and using it to help me understand the latin, but I was probably being too autistic because I was getting mad at myself for not understanding all the latin even with the help of english.

[Anonymous No.22442826]

>>22442783
how would you know?

[Anonymous No.22442833]

>>22442803
>Did this after finishing both LLPSI and Wheelocks. I even picked up a supposedly easy Loeb (Cornelius Nepos, iirc) and still got filtered by the fucking intro.
You should get an edition that's actually designed for students instead of a Loeb imo. I have a physical copy of this one:
https://archive.org/details/livesofcornelius00nep/
It has vocabulary, notes, and also citations to Gildersleeve and Allen & Greenough's reference grammars. There are also English to Latin composition exercises to help you drill vocab and idiom.

[Anonymous No.22442835]

>>22442826

Novi perfacile, amicule, nam mea Latinitas merior, purior, melior omnino quam tua umquam erit.

[Anonymous No.22443165]

>>22403473
Hey guys does anyone have the 3rd edition of Athenaze Book II?

[Anonymous No.22443170]

>>22441817
I take offense at this. I'm >>22441098 and I barely have 5 months of Latin under my belt.
I don't think my Latin composition is good, but at least I understand the cases, tenses and how to use them.

[Anonymous No.22443171]

>>22440180
>in three months.
>not starting now
ngmi

[Anonymous No.22443186]

>>22434529
Homeric isn't a real dialect, it's a combination of dialects that was never actually spoken aa a dialect

[Anonymous No.22443291]

>>22443186
cant you argue thats just every dialect to an extent

[Anonymous No.22443335]

>>22443186
>Homeric isn't a real dialect
I genuinely don't say this with any hostility, but that's why I used quotation marks. it's not a dialect proper, but it has its own pecularities. I actually had a class last semester surveying parts of the Iliad and we talked about the blend of different actual dialects which are found in not just the most canonical but various versions of the text. it's actually interesting to consider in terms of the evolution of the story how it was brought to different peoples across the mediterranean first as a form of minstrel entertainment and only later as a canonized text

[Anonymous No.22443353]

What do you guys think of the allegations that Athenians changed the original text of the Iliad at some point?

[Anonymous No.22443372]

>>22443353
I'm not familiar with that claim. could you expand upon it or direct me where you learned of it?

[Anonymous No.22443390]

>>22443372
I read it in a French commentary of the Iliad some years ago. The author didn't expand on it, but the idea has intrigued me ever since.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/261600
https://www.jstor.org/stable/261451

[Anonymous No.22443414]

>>22443390
what's the French commentary? I'm actually learning French on the side and have been reading primarly classics-related articles and academic journals as content

[Anonymous No.22443416]

>>22443414
Not sure I can, but I'll try to find it again for you.

[Anonymous No.22443439]

>>22443416
no worries if you ultimately don't want to, but I would appreciate it

[Anonymous No.22443748]

>>22442717
does your "clear and modern style" entail a complete lack of understanding of cases and conjugation?
because latino sine flexione has existed since 1887, you're more than a century too late

[Anonymous No.22443838]

>>22442717
>I’ve always wanted to write Latin in a clear and modern style
you ain't writing Latin, it's simple as that; more like a Latin-based conlang
you don't need to outdo Cicero's prose to write good Latin, even Wikipedia Latin is a good example in this case, declensions and gender aren't optional

[Anonymous No.22444397]

>>22442772
I'm saying you will lose superficial people and people you connected to specifically over time. This will happen no matter what, and it's a good thing. There is no detour around authenticity that does not create immense suffering.

[Anonymous No.22444426]

>>22442717
Best troll in this thread. Masterful stuff, really. Can't give less than decem super decem.

[Anonymous No.22444584]

>>22444426
I doubt it's a troll. I've known people exactly like him.

[Anonymous No.22444676]

>>22444426

Dunno why my writing triggered some of these people so hard, especially since, like, you know, I have a pretty solid understanding of what I'm talking about and obviously understand the language and its rules pretty well. Not exactly an expert yet, but getting there. I’d definitely say I’m in the upper percentiles at this point in terms of fluency though, and I think the reactions to my writing style speak for themselves. I’m aiming to compete with guys like polymathy in the future.

I did start putting some of my translations out there under my real identity and did start getting a decent amount of attention (I also did notice my audience tended to lean heavily female) but from what I know reaching a native level of fluency in a language like Latin, realistically, takes about 3 to 5 years for most people, so I decided to stop the attention seeking behavior and have been solely working on my craft for the past year or so. 10,000 hour rule yada yada yada.

I will probably stop lurking here once I resume my activity out there on the non-anonymous internet- but I've been on and off this board for a long time now and I’ve been craving some form of communication that I used to get from my audience and… well, all I have to ask is… “are you entertained??” :^)

I think some of it is that "bitter and/or envious academic who is hostile and/or threatened by anyone else who shows some talent (or even more) in something they care about" trope in action with the responses I got, but hey! I’m pretty confident with my skills but want pure excellence, so that/this type of feedback is helpful/useful in its own way.

[Anonymous No.22444723]

>>22444676
Okay you are trying too hard now lol

[Anonymous No.22445242]

nescivi graecam discere tantum oblectamenti fore
λόγος, λόγου, λόγῳ, λόγον, λόγε, λόγω, λόγοιν, λόγοι, λόγων, λόγοις, λόγους... papae!

[Anonymous No.22445860]

>>22445242
declinationes sane quidem, at cave cum verbis modo operam dabis; videbitur profecto lingua latina haud compar difficultate

[Anonymous No.22445897]

rate my trans-progress
>Arion citharista praeclarus erat.
Arion was a famous guitarist.
>Is diu apud Periandrum Corinthiorum regem versatus erat.
For a long time he lived at the court of King Periander of Corinth.
>Tum in Italiam Siciliamque navigare cupivit.
Then he desired to sail to Italy and Sicily.
>Ingentibus opibus ibi comparatis, Corinthum redire voluit.
With vast wealth obtained there, he wanted to return to Corinth.
>Itaque Tarento, urbe Italiae, profectus est;
Therefore he departed from the Italian city of Taranto;
>ibi navigium hominum Corinthiorum conduxerat.
There he had hired a boat of Corinthian men.

[Anonymous No.22445968]

>>22445897
bretty good

[Anonymous No.22446698]

>Hi autem eum in mare proicere constituerunt;
These men however decided to throw him into the sea;
>pecunia enim potiri cupiebant.
for they desired to seize his money.
>Tum vero Arion consilium intellexit.
But then Arion realized their intent.
>Tristis ad preces confugit.
Depressed, he took refuge in prayer.
>Pecunia omni nautis oblata, vitam deprecatus est.
Having offered all his money to the sailors, he prayed for his life.
>Nautae vero precibus viri non commoti, mortem ei statim minati sunt.
But the sailors, unmoved by the man's prayers, immediately threatened him with death.

[Anonymous No.22447784]

ἤδη γάρ μοι κῆρ νυν ἀνώγει νῆμα σαῶσαι

[Anonymous No.22447838]

I want a book that progresses in the following way
>grammar concept is introduced along with some vocabulary
>you have to read multiple sentences showing the vocab and grammar concept
>next grammar concept is introduced as well as more vocabulary
>now you have to read new sentences with the new grammar concept and vocab but also the old ones as well
What is the book for me? I find that this works for me

[Anonymous No.22448084]

>>22425101
>only Beowulf for Old English
There gotta be more

[Anonymous No.22448316]

>>22448084
He is indeed exaggerating, but OE does have a very small corpus. Beowulf, admittedly a major work, then Caedmon, then Cynewulf's few surviving poems...
I wouldn't consider it a classical language in the same vein as Latin or Sanskrit. Beowulf was rediscovered after the single manuscript was partially burned in the 18th century.

[Anonymous No.22448347]

shill a bronze age language to me that i should learn

[Anonymous No.22448382]

>>22447838
Wheelock's, though that breaks down in later chapters

[Anonymous No.22448416]

>>22448347
Linear A

[Anonymous No.22448519]

>>22448084
>>22448316
I was naming the one text people actually give a shit about. For example there's obviously more to read in Arabic than the Koran, but I was saying if you wanted to learn that many languages you could do it if you set a goal if mastering a single text. You can learn a lot of languages that way if you are willing to be honest about how much of the corpus you are actually interested in investing several years of your life to learn.

[Anonymous No.22448818]

>Mortuae feles in sacris sepulcris, Bubasti in oppido sepeliuntur
Is it correct to say that "Bubasti" is locative and "oppido," its adjunct, is cast to the locative by the preposition "in," but because Bubasti already has a locative inflection it remains outside the prepositional phrase?

[Anonymous No.22448874]

>>22448818
wouldn't go so far, more like a predicate construction i.e which oppidum? Bubastis, but both go in the required case
like the double nominative or double accusative

[Anonymous No.22449461]

>>22443372
I seem to recall Plutarch claiming in his Life of Solon that the Athenians edited the catalog of ships in order to legitimize their claim to Salamis.

[Anonymous No.22449470]

>>22449461
what do we think of this claim?

[Anonymous No.22449479]

>>22443335
Oh didnt see the quotation marks
>>22443353
Could have happened for any ancient text ever, especially if it started as oral tradition
>>22448347
Hittite
Mycenaean
>>22448416
Minoan isn't yet deciphered sadly
>>22443291
Well, Homeric was never spoken. It was written, and used for reciting the works but it was not spoken anywhere as a dialect that came to be out of the natural blend of two or more dialects or/and linguistic drift

[Anonymous No.22449496]

>>22448347
Unironically Hebrew.
Lots to read, not that hard, and Modern isn't too different.

[Anonymous No.22449903]

>>22449479
>Minoan isn't yet deciphered sadly
exactly: be the one to decipher it

[Anonymous No.22449947]

>>22448347
>>22449496
Also, for most bronze age ME languages, the textbook will assume that you already know some
> Hebrew

[Anonymous No.22450031]

>>22448347
Early Classical Chinese.

[Anonymous No.22450164]

>>22448347
Just do Egyptian as there's more of a popular appeal from it and it has more resources probably but is possibly full of many new things for upcoming students of it to discover.

[Anonymous No.22450200]

>>22450164
Egyptological pronunciation is stupid though.

[Anonymous No.22450298]

>>22450200
I wonder if there would be a convenient way to convert words to Coptic or late Egyptian pronunciation.

[Anonymous No.22450823]

>>22450298
I've heard that the Soviet Egyptologist Perepelkin taught himself fluent Coptic first, and then learned to read Egyptian in Coptic reflexes, like how the Chinese read Classical Chinese in the modern readings of the characters. Apparently he was one of the only people who could actually read hieroglyphs fluently instead of deciphering it painstakingly symbol by symbol.

[Anonymous No.22452022]

>>22450298
Learn Coptic and Late Egyptian before trying Middle Egyptian.

[Anonymous No.22452337]

approximately what reading/grade level are the final chapters of LLPSI?

[Anonymous No.22452372]

>>22452337
No idea how you want us to quantify that.
The second to last chapter of FR has authentic poetry, but is also commonly considered to be too hard, so it's not a good benchmark for how far the book gets you.

[Anonymous No.22453496]

βυμπ

[Anonymous No.22453996]

This thread is on a hiatus,

BUT NOT ON MY WATCH, AH! BUMP

[Anonymous No.22454015]

>>22452337
I'm on the second to last chapter and I can't read shit when I glance at anything authentic so I think it's fair to say that they hype is in fact not real.

[Anonymous No.22454107]

>>22454015

[Anonymous No.22454323]

>>22452337
The final chapters are significant chunks of cicero and horatius with some abridgement so I'd assume fairly high level

[Anonymous No.22454325]

>>22454323
*horace

[Anonymous No.22454577]

>>22452337
7

[Anonymous No.22454697]

>>22454107
I wish I could say otherwise.

[Anonymous No.22455080]

>>22453496
bib?

[Anonymous No.22455085]

>>22455080
nigga this isn't modern greek

[Anonymous No.22455306]

>>22438289
Both the Democrats and Republicans are for bigger government. They're both left wing.

[Anonymous No.22455529]

does num quid retain its negative expectation as an interrogative?

[Anonymous No.22455632]

>>22455529
kinda, yes; feels more like neutral to me
>numquid vis?
>anything else?

[Anonymous No.22455742]

What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.22455958]

>>22455742
No idea, but you do read the wildest takes on this website sometimes. I think it's called the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[Anonymous No.22456186]

>>22454015
Maybe try easier authentic texts, like the Vulgate, then.

[Anonymous No.22456189]

>>22455085
Okay, bümp then. Though beta shifted to a bilabial fricative at least pretty early. But even if you're going purely by Classical Attic, why transliterate by spelling instead of sound? Why not write βαμπ?

[Anonymous No.22456218]

>>22455306
That's... not what that means.

[Anonymous No.22456363]

>ended up owning 4 different Greek textbooks

do you ever go through multiple books to reinforce grammar etc.? I'm trying to find ways to convince myself I'm not an idiot for this.

[Anonymous No.22456423]

>>22456363
Yes, but I just download pdfs.

[Anonymous No.22456732]

>>22456363
what did you get? i'd say you're an idiot only if after two years you're still plowing through textbooks without engaging with authentic texts.

[Anonymous No.22457091]

Volo scribere rem, in latina naturaliter. Sed, hic problema est: non scio latinam satis.

[Anonymous No.22457103]

>>22457091
Please don't write in Latin until you have a decently strong grasp on the language

[Anonymous No.22457123]

>>22457091
>"hic" problema non "hoc" problema
omnino consummatu'st

[Anonymous No.22457160]

>>22457123

[Anonymous No.22457180]

>>22457160
gratias tibi, proiciam memet statim ad leones

[Anonymous No.22457246]

>>22457091
amice, te mendosam in forem ingressus esse puto

pedicandi locum duas insulas distat

[Anonymous No.22457424]

How hard is russian compared to german?

[Anonymous No.22457442]

>>22457424
I would say Russian is 3x as difficult as German, if you're coming from english and inexperienced learning languages.

[Anonymous No.22457546]

>>22457442
That's fucked up. How long does it take to learn it to the point where I can read Dostoyevsky in it?

[Anonymous No.22457552]

>>22457424
Not a classical language. If you have a decent study plan that involves lots of input and the self-discipline to work on it every day, and if you focus on somewhat archaic materials, you can probably reach that point in a year. But, again, not a classical language.

[Anonymous No.22457579]

>>22457546
>How long does it take to learn it to the point where I can read Dostoyevsky in it?
Heh, I'll tell you when I get there

[Anonymous No.22457605]

>>22457552
>Not a classical language.
What Dostoyevsky wrote is more important than whatever epic crap Homer or Virgil did. In short, shut the fuck up!

[Anonymous No.22457834]

>>22457605
That is your (incorrect) opinion. Irrespective of your personal judgments, Russian is not a language that has outlived its vernacular status to become the stylistic model and corpus of reference for further languages; the Old Slavonic languages are. In short, it's just like a slavish tsar-worshipping serf to claim an inapplicable term you don't understand solely for its prestige, like the oligarch kiddies raid the most overpriced YSL outlets in Paris, the sewer of Europe, solely because Pushkin told them to! Go die defending your mafia boss, Moskal.

[Anonymous No.22457990]

Anyone here knows Chinese? Which version of Chinese should I learn if I wanna read "A Dream of Red Mansions" in the original? How long would it take?

[Anonymous No.22458036]

>>22457990
Learn Mandarin, which is not a classical language either. Red Chambers is one of the masterpieces of modern literature, meaning it is no more classical in language or in character than Tristram Shandy. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.22458049]

>>22457990
I forgot to mention: it will take two years if you are smart and diligent to learn enough to read Red Chambers; otherwise, it will take you the rest of your life. Don't complain about it here.

[Anonymous No.22458058]

>>22426058
This is sorta true I generally dislike overly online leftist types, but wouldn't really call myself conservative at least in the American gop sense
>non-binary(male)

[Anonymous No.22458079]

>>22458036
>>22458049
If I learn modern Mandarin will I also be able to read Three Kingdoms and Journey to the West or do I have to learn another language entirely to be able to read those?

[Anonymous No.22458837]

>>22447784
θυμὸς ἐμὸς ἔπεα πτερόεντα κλύων ὅσ’ ἔειπες,
αὐτόθι τ’ ὄφρ’ ἔλθω πρήξω τε τὰ αὐτά, μοι ἄρχει

[Anonymous No.22458928]

How hard objectively is ancient greek (classical) compared to latin? Considering alphabet, causes, voices etc.

[Anonymous No.22459139]

>>22458928
How do you even quantify such a thing?
Alphabet is nothing, you'll know it in a week
Voices, declensions, conjugations, tenses, moods - there are more than Latin but not a ridiculous amount. Having so many forms makes starting out a bit difficult but actual reading much easier.
In short don't worry about 'how hard'. If you want to learn Greek, do so and start now.

[Anonymous No.22459149]

>>22458928
alphabet is meme difficulty, you'll learn it fast; maybe the pitch accent system will be the more challenging side in terms of phonetics, but it has its logic
I'd say once you get past a certain point the whole castle of Greek grammar is quite regular and handy. The fact for instance that you have one additional mood like optative actually in many ways makes things less ambiguous

[Anonymous No.22459433]

>>22403473
What's the difference between Εγώ είμαι and just είμαι?
Duolingo is being gay and isn't explaining it all too well

[Anonymous No.22459442]

>>22459433
if modern Greek here works like ancient, it's just emphasis on the subject; ancient Greek is pro-drop

[Anonymous No.22459457]

>>22459433
Emphasizing the Subject

[Anonymous No.22459780]

>>22459433
reported for off-topic

[Anonymous No.22460471]

>>22459433
>duolingo
duolingo last I checked is shite and a half for language learning. even if you're just trying to do something a little light on the side, you'd be better off going more slowly through a proper grammar

[Anonymous No.22460638]

Changes you'd like to see in ISO/SPQR24?
>remove sigmatics
>deprecate semi-deps
>consteval on indeclinable subs

[Anonymous No.22460684]

>>22460638
> deprecate semi-deps
They should have thrown out deps altogether, horrible idea from the start.

[Anonymous No.22460992]

I've been learning French for a while
Will this help me learn Latin?

[Anonymous No.22461112]

>>22460992
I don't have first-hand experience in your position, but I started with Latin and have been learning French for nearly two years and can say that it'll definitely help you out. there are a lot of forms and words that are similar in spelling between the languages, but there are also many cognates in French that have a fucky spelling compared to their Latin predecessor. e.g. maître, which is from magistrum. that said, even with fucky compound verbs, there are general formulas in their composition that you can learn and gradually be able to intuit more and more the meaning of the Latin predecessor - sometimes even when seeing it for the first time in a text. short answer yes, but probably not as much as knowing Spanish would help, say

[Anonymous No.22461424]

>>22460471
Well what's the alternative to it?

[Anonymous No.22461541]

>>22461424
an actual grammar, take your pick. some people here have used Athenaze (the English and/or Italian version) and have liked it, others I know have used Hansen and Quinn (i.e. "Greek: An Intensive Course"), and others still I know have used more specific grammars for their goals (e.g. a new testament grammar, of which there are a handful). look around online, ask around if you want, see what feels most agreeable to your purposes

[Anonymous No.22461543]

>>22461424
>Duolingo
>Well what's the alternative to it?
Literally any textbook for adults that is written by a qualified scholar as opposed to a game-app with sentences about peacocks fighting weasels and lighting parrots on fire.

Unless you're not a serious person and never cared about literature in the first place. In that case keep on what you are doing.

[Anonymous No.22461563]

>>22461424
There is none, it is by far the best resource for language learning on the planet. Ignore the naysayers.

[Anonymous No.22461571]

>>22458079
They're in somewhat literary Mandarin, but essentially Mandarin yes.

[Anonymous No.22461579]

>>22460992
A more conservative Romance language would have helped more but yes.
>>22461563
Nah I've tried it, it sucks.

[Anonymous No.22461669]

>>22439750
>>22447784
post more greek frogs pls

[Anonymous No.22461677]

Recently submitted my dissertation
I still feel I'm not confident in my latin and greek, its a marvel that I graduated.
I can read by using tools but I still cannot read by getgo.
I wasted a decade on latin and greek and I'm still shit at it. Wish I focused more on dating ngl. There were qt3.14's in my department now I'm just another single male in the jobless cohort...

[Anonymous No.22461713]

>>22461677
>dissertation
on? you don't have to give specifics if you don't want
>not confident in my latin and greek
>I wasted a decade on latin and greek and I'm still shit at it
what courses did you take and which authors did you go over? how much of your spare time did you spend reading Latin and Greek? ime most learners, even some grad students I've seen, seem to do the bare minimum
>there were qt3.14's
sure, but were they libtards/commies? I guess it depends on your politics as well, but all the girls I've ever ran into in classics have been as I just described. not that I wouldn't mind a girl with similar interests, but of that sort I'm not willing to risk getting involved with and saying one wrong thing only to get reemed by the hr department

[Anonymous No.22461749]

>>22461713
Yeah sorry to not be specific, you can easily find me but lets just say Hellenistic era history
I took way too many courses, also studied on my won, Yale's Reading Greek and Latin Series is my favorite, they are extremely intensive and brutal. But you are absolutely right, way too many stuff is going on, wish I could study it at my own pace
>sure, but were they libtards/commies?
I'm more of a champagne socialist, but I would not refuse a conservative or liberal women based on her politics.
I dunno, now looking back I just feel I missed out, instead of being more social I shut myself in either played ss13 or studied latin/greek, spend an entire summer just studying latin/greek Now I regret it. I could've been more social.
I have 14 papers and 2 articles on my name but no job offer because I cannot mingle with people at conferences. I feel depressed thinking about all my colleagues who got a job/fiance just from being social, oh well

[Anonymous No.22461785]

>>22461749
>studied on my won, Yale's Reading Greek and Latin Series is my favorite
He asked you to name authors and you give textbooks? Did you do any reading of Classical works on your own? Anything not on the syllabus? Why did you major in Classics in the first place?
>>22461713
>most learners, even some grad students I've seen, seem to do the bare minimum
Same here. When I got my BA I was outshining grad students in class and on exams, written and verbal. They seemed to have no interest in the subject and were just going through the motions. It boggled my mind how they were all signing up for enormous amounts of debt to study something they apparently cared little for.

[Anonymous No.22461793]

>>22461785
ah yes sorry forgive me I got confused, in seminars we read Iliad (fucking waste of time, here's to 20000th translation done by an overpaid boomer professor), Polybius, Caesar and Cicero
>Why did you major in Classics in the first place?
my undergrad was in polsci, I studied latin-greek on my own and applied for phd program later on

[Anonymous No.22461819]

>>22461749
>Hellenisitc era history
>14 papers and 2 articles on my name
how did you find something to talk about? I'm in grad school now and I have a few interests but I never went anywhere previously that cared too much on academic research and so I feel like I don't know what I could focus on in any sort of research paper. I mean I have ideas but I feel like everythings been discussed at this point (unless it's gender studies/feminist/minority = good, majority = bad stuff, which I see a lot of other grad students concerning themselves with)
>Yale's Reading Greek and Latin\
never heard of it, I'll have to check it out
>I would not refuse a conservative or liberal women based on her politics
I'm open to them having a noticeably different political perspective than me, within reason, but in my current circumstances I'm not willing to put my enrollment on the line
>I shut myself in either played ss13 or studied latin/greek, spent an entire summer just studying latin/greek
>Iliad, Polybius, Caesar and Cicero
surely that can't be it. what all did you study in your spare time? no Plato? no Xenophon? Ovid? Catullus? Seneca? Suetonius? I'm really not trying to be rude and rub salt in the wound, but I just feel like you should have a pretty strong grasp on the languages. maybe your criteria for yourself is rather high. you said it's a marvel you graduated: how so? are you again talking about your skills or your lack of desire/interest?
>>22461785
>when I got my BA I was outshining grad students in class and on exams, written and verbal. they seemed to have no interest in the subject and were just goign through the motions
I was in Latin class last semester as an undergrad all with other grad students and only one of them - a phd student - showed any compelling understanding of Latin. the other grad students obviously had some knowledge, but for a grad student they really should've been better. departments ime also baby students, though idk how universal that is. in a different graduate level Latin course there was a student who told the professor that they were worried about a POETRY course dealing with METER - like wtf do you expect, we just ignore a central part of the literature? idk if it has something to do with the times, the type of classes, but most people just seem to want a handout and programs are seemingly going along with it to some non-trivial degree

[Anonymous No.22461850]

>>22461819
the secret is to turn every seminar into a paper, papers are not articles you don't need to be groundbreaking, you have a lot of leeway. Some conferences are extremely anal and want to review your abstract, I was rejected 4/6 times from one, but many places will accept you just with 100-150 word proposal. The real issue is funding, hotel and planeticket costs can be a bitch. Becareful. Department/school sometimes funds it but not always.
Also expand your horizons, I was a Hellenistic era guy but gave a paper on Byzantine Empire, its not that hard. (unlike learning latin and greek, deffinetly check yale's series out)
>I'm not willing to put my enrollment on the line
You've been warned anon, if you don't find a partner now you'll probably never find a partner, everyone who entered single became engaged/married, everyone but me, be warned
>what all did you study in your spare time? no Plato? no Xenophon? Ovid? Catullus? Seneca? Suetonius?
nope, as I sad I was not a classics major undergrad, took a grad seminar on homer and did some translations on hellenistic/roman history classes (hence polybius)
>you said it's a marvel you graduated: how so?
lucked out I guess
yeah my latin/greek is still shit. I should not have a degree, I'm not saying this as an impostor syndrome haver. I really realy doubt my adviser will write me a letter.

[Anonymous No.22461853]

>Blablabla politics blablabla gradschool

When did this become normalfag central? We're supposed to be based autodidacts here.

[Anonymous No.22461979]

>>22461853
all the good posters here have been academics

[Anonymous No.22462223]

How do I learn to read Latin poetry? I have no problem with prose but poetry is destroying me.

[Anonymous No.22462376]

thoughts on rhyming latin verse?
>aut subiecta terunt curuae uineta carinae;
>et, modo qua graciles gramen carpsere capellae,
>nunc ibi deformes ponunt sua corpora phocae.

[Anonymous No.22462545]

>>22462223
Just force yourself to read it, you get used to hyperbaton after a week.

[Anonymous No.22462550]

NOVUM
>>22462548
>>22462548
>>22462548