/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22381918]

ROC(OR)-flavored Orthodoxy is but a humiliation ritual for Westerners, virtually indistinguishable from any other modern death cult like BLM or climate change, the membership requirement for which is hating yourself. It has nothing to do with Christianity, the Bible, Tradition, righteous living or humility. It's only an extremity of the Russian State apparatus.

If you listen closely, you can hear Stalin's erection poking through the ground.

[Anonymous No.22383137]

Not a bad way to start a thread. Have no idea why it isn't getting more attention, OP.

I agree with you to an extent. It's hard to see why any westener would join ROCOR specifically at this stage unless they already fetishised anti-western sentiment to a point where it defined who they were as a person. Have to imagine there are still some genuine converts though.

[Anonymous No.22383143]

>>22381918
I don't feel like any of the hierarchical forms of Christianity are legitimate. But yes some of them do seem less legitimate than others.

[Anonymous No.22383155]

>>22381918
All of Orthodoxy is similar. Video below is about a mainstream prayer manual from Mt. Athos (English translation published by St Vladimir's Seminary) which instructs you to pray with extreme interior physical force such that you physically injure your heart (the organ) and cause extreme chest pains and cough up blood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oClgY2pZ9k

[Anonymous No.22383161]

>>22383155
Also the creator of the video is an ex-ROCOR priest, coincidentally.

[Anonymous No.22383166]

>>22383155
Also the creator of the video used to be a priest in ROCOR, coincidentally.

[Anonymous No.22383268]

[Anonymous No.22383357]

>>22381918
>If you listen closely, you can hear Stalin's erection poking through the ground.
ROCOR was literally started by monarchist russians who fled the soviet union lmao

[Anonymous No.22383360]

You wouldn't be able to stand there and express that you're guilt free if it wasn't for all this winging about a mistake good people made, that was not lazy or purposeful. It's also only a medium problem. You're also taking your winging out on the wrong person, someone who is in a similar or worse position, minus your end of the sacrifice in a mistake. You will be punished for your wrongdoings to me, that was beyond a great evil and you can expect lifetimes of hell

You got a dimensional advantage to help you get through discomfort. Use it. You block the quick fix with your winging, you lose your right to complain. You've took copious amounts of pleasure from me. You don't even know the best parts of yourself because you accept no contact and just winge and commit evil. If anyone was bad for your image, it's you. This can all be over quickly, consider, and don't do you usual winge followed by ignorant weakness here, doing the right thing. And I'll stop all of your punishment. Which you will be. I'm serious. Half of your argument is evil and you are committing too much evil against an innocent, calling brother fiend and dismissing all of 'up there's moaning. You better release me because you'll have hell to pay if you don't. My problem is far worse than yours, you have a lot of comfort. All your moaning is about image and you over exemplify it's merit just so you can continue winging.

Seriously consider the guilt free option.

[Anonymous No.22383361]

>>22383268
Origen was a heretic

[Anonymous No.22383410]

>>22383361
He was condemned as a Christological heretic based on the writings of other people, centuries after his death. Nothing he said in that pic is even related to his "heresy" condemnation.

[Anonymous No.22383426]

>>22383361
In the 4th century Basil the Great and Gregory Nazianzen published a compilation of Origen's writings (the Philocalia of Origen) and about 1/5 of it was taken from Contra Celsum (the book in the pic earlier).

[Anonymous No.22383432]

Seems pretty obvious to me why orthodox Christians would despise the strictly propositional Freemason atheist heresy nation or else Protestant evangelical heterodox nation.

[Anonymous No.22383434]

>>22383432
The average Orthodox is either a secular person who attends church on holy days because it's his national religion, or a serf in a village in the old country who doesn't know what the word "propositional" means.

[Anonymous No.22383435]

>>22383268
You know Church Father can be other than strictly 100% correct, right?

[Anonymous No.22383440]

>>22383435
He's a historical example and speaking about the practice as it was in his time, which is in accord with other writings from this period. There isn't any substantial evidence to the contrary. Veneration of icons dates to the 6th century or so and can only be reasonably defended as a "development" rather than an apostolic practice.

[Anonymous No.22383442]

>>22383155
That is incredibly based and admirable.

[Anonymous No.22383446]

>>22383442
It can be as "based" as you want it be, but it isn't related to Christianity, dear trad larper.

[Anonymous No.22383447]

>>22383434
Did Christ call people to follow the average person or to follow him?

[Anonymous No.22383454]

>>22383440
And…?

[Anonymous No.22383455]

>>22383447
Christ calls you to leave a loaf of bread before an icon of St. Borgomius so that he can cure your sprained ankle overnight.

[Anonymous No.22383459]

>>22383454
"And" what? Are you claiming that Origen is wrong and that Christians in the second century venerated icons? That is historically false.

[Anonymous No.22383472]

>>22383268
Early Christians also condemned clergy wearing special clothes that distinguished them from normal people. The practice developed from Christianity gaining political power and clergy adopting the garb of Roman civil authorities, and then they just kept wearing them after they fell out of popular usage.

[Anonymous No.22383513]

>The notion that Luke painted an icon of Mary, scholars relate, first appeared during the Iconoclast controversy in the 8th century, created by those favoring icon veneration. The earliest mention of icons painted by Luke is found in a work called On the Veneration of Holy Images by Andrew of Crete, who died in the first half of the 8th century — an iconophile writing at the beginning of the Iconoclastic controversy. An oft-quoted and supposedly earlier mention in the history by 6th century writer Theodore Anagnostes of an icon painted by Luke and sent from Jerusalem to Pulcheria (Byzantine Empress: died 453) is found in 13th-century manuscripts of the history. But it is absent in earlier manuscripts from the early 11th century. That is a very strong indication that this story of a Marian icon painted by Luke was added much later to the original text. In a very well-researched book — Icons and Power: the Mother of God in Byzantium (Pennsylvania State University, 2006), Bessera V. Pentcheva writes: “The myth was invented in order to support the legitimacy of icon veneration during the Iconoclast controversy [8th and 9th centuries]. By claiming the existence of a portrait of the Theotokos painted during her lifetime by the evangelist Luke, the perpetrators of this fiction fabricated evidence for the apostolic origins and divine approval of Images.”

[Anonymous No.22383559]

>>22383432
If Orthos were smart, they would found their own Knights of Columbus equivalent instead of becoming fringe third worldists who simp for barely closeted Satanist philosophers and a country with one of the world's highest abortion rates.

[Anonymous No.22383616]

>>22381918
All those documentaries about murifats coming to live orthodox life in Russian country side looked pretty happy to me. Which is pretty sad, since people that call Drumpf "too liberal" and cite Tucker and Schwab, when being asked simple questions should have no easy life on god's earth.

[Anonymous No.22383840]

There's a great deal of difference between actual ROC types, American based tradpilled orthoLARPers, and actual Orthodox Christians. If you conflate all three you'll end up believing that a Christian living in Syria worships Vladimir Putin or something.

[Anonymous No.22383865]

>>22383616
We really should do a population exchange with Russia. They can have our chuds, we will take in their computer programmers and laboratory scientists.

[Anonymous No.22383919]

>>22381918
>There's a great deal of difference between actual ROC types, American based tradpilled orthoLARPers, and actual Orthodox Christians.
There's also a great deal of difference between any of those and Biblical Christians, not the least of which is a lack of making images/likenesses and bowing to or kissing or serving them.

[Anonymous No.22383992]

>>22381918
>/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22384008]

>>22381918
Obviously, it was compromised during the communist regime:
>The book describes establishing the "Moscow Patriarchate" on order from Stalin in 1943 as a front organization for the NKVD, and later, for the KGB.[66] All key positions in the Church, including bishops, were approved by the Ideological Department of CPSU and by the KGB. The priests were used as agents of influence in the World Council of Churches and in front organizations such as World Peace Council, Christian Peace Conference, and the Rodina ("Motherland") Society founded by the KGB in 1975. The future Russian Patriarch Alexius II said that Rodina was created to "maintain spiritual ties with our compatriots" and to help organize them. According to the archive, Alexius worked for the KGB as agent DROZDOV, and received an honorary citation from the agency for a variety of services.[67]

[Anonymous No.22384075]

Sounds like all modern christianity to me t b h.
>hate yourself and praise foreigners invading your nations and bringing misery and destroying your future

[Anonymous No.22384093]

>>22383559
I just don’t think Russians and Slavs or Balkans think like that. That’s Westerners and Jews who are like that. Russians are devious but they’re not subversive or weaselly. They don’t think like bankers and technocrats.

[Anonymous No.22384094]

>>22381918
Self-hate and death cult behavior seem pretty stock standard for Christians I've met desu.

[Anonymous No.22384100]

>>22383840
Why do you guys invent such bizarre ad hominem attacks? Why do you refuse to believe, for example, that a sincere orthodox Christian is also sincerely a monarchist? All you do is critique through layers of irony without even touching anything real let alone worthwhile. I bet you don’t even know any orthodox people IRL and maybe haven’t even spoken to any 1:1 online. You just have this chronically online fantasy that you made up and love to attack. And you never present your own beliefs or affinities, probably because you know they’re 10x more retarded and cringey.

[Anonymous No.22384105]

>>22384094
Yeah, because atheists, new agers, and neopagan totally aren’t like that at all…

[Anonymous No.22384111]

>>22384008
If this influence was purged, what difference does it make. Orthodogs have no Vatican and Pontiff with absolute authority. If a few priests are communists, it means basically nothing.

[Anonymous No.22384114]

>>22384105
What is this post even trying to say? You didn't even try to deny anything I said.

[Anonymous No.22384121]

>>22384114
I thought I was being obvious. You’re implying it’s a feature among Christians, when in reality it’s a feature among non-Christians at least much and arguably more so than non-Christians.

[Anonymous No.22384166]

>>22384100
Yeah

[Anonymous No.22384245]

>>22383268
Immediately after writing this he cut off his balls. True story

[Anonymous No.22384268]

>>22384093
lol ... LOL! I mean.. lmao.. an underaged kid can weasel around german academic professor, same goes for all anglos. literally most pragmatic kind on earth, which can be manipulated into anything and weaseled around by anyone

[Anonymous No.22384622]

>>22381918
>noo, church can’t serve interests of rhe state
Church should be the left arm of the people, state its right.

[Anonymous No.22384711]

>>22384622
In Russia the president came to power by orchestrating a terrorist attack on his own people and starting two bloody wars afterwards, and the church in Russia is an organ of the state, with actual former KGB agents serving as bishops and priests, not the people. In a perfect world, maybe your position would make sense, but it doesn't in reality.

[Anonymous No.22385147]

>>22384245
That appears to be a rumor created by his enemies, and he denied having done it. It's possible that it's true but there's no actual proof.

[Anonymous No.22385154]

>>22384622
The church is the body of believers, it's not a kingdom of this world.

[Anonymous No.22385174]

>>22385154
Its the body of believers in the Orthodox church

[Anonymous No.22385183]

>>22385174
No, that's cult theology (same with RCC and JW), not sound scriptural doctrine.

[Anonymous No.22385192]

>>22383616
>people that call Drumpf "too liberal" and cite Tucker and Schwab, when being asked simple questions should have no easy life on god's earth
The cop-outs will always get their grub. It is infuriating that after all we've been through people still manage to scratch together enough naïveté to larp. I guess we are going to take this ride all the way down...

[Anonymous No.22385199]

>>22384008
Never understood how 90% of ortholarpers on the internet converted because of Jay Dyer but then shrug their shoulders to this shit. Ditto Jay of course, but we can all do the math there.

[Anonymous No.22385206]

>>22385192
Now say it again without schizophrenia (if possible of course)

[Anonymous No.22385212]

>>22385199
You can't criticize the based trad ROC because otherwise that means you agree with globohomo degenerate westoids... or something.

[Anonymous No.22385217]

>>22385199
If you view the church as a physical institution that is under divine protection and it functions properly no matter what the clergy says or does then it doesn't matter if every priest is a KGB agent. Catholics are the same way.

[Anonymous No.22385218]

Literature???

[Anonymous No.22385247]

>>22384100
I read this post one time about a guy "coming out" as a "monarchist" to his family and can't believe I didn't save it because now nothing is more crystal clear to me than that this trad virtue signaling angst fest is nothing but the flip side of sexual identity searching. And also that trads are fucking faggots.
>You can say this because what you call orthodoxy is really just your wishy washy appeal to sentimentalities. Your spirituality is gelatinous. You have no solid idea of what you are talking about. That is why you impotently champion russian oligarchs and monarchism. It means nothing to be a monarchist at this point. It is nothing more than an obscure idea floating around in your head that you happen to fancy. What you really are is a virtual reality orthodox. It is as substantial as a created character in an RPG. Unfortunately your cute idiosyncratic notions have no weight when the archbishops of both Russia and Greece contradict you all the time. Trad Russia is an internet meme, monarchy is an internet meme, and you have become a meme. 4chan is not trad, internet christianity is not trad, christian memes are not trad, Vladimir Putin is not trad, and you are dumbest retard gorilla nigger I have ever seen.

[Anonymous No.22385251]

>>22385218
Start with The Bible.

[Anonymous No.22385257]

>>22385217
If either party actually thought they were above criticism they would just kill the people they thought were a problem, like they did when they actually did think they were above criticism and like jihadist do because they feel that way. For them to make such a powerful claim and to be so pussyfooted otherwise, I just don't buy that explanation.

[Anonymous No.22385272]

>>22385257
I'll rephrase. If your priest is a KGB agent and an atheist his sacraments are still valid as long as he's connected to the correct physical institution (in this case Catholicism or Orthodoxy) therefore it's "okay." And that is of course "the point" of church, which is to receive the magic bread. If you disagreed they'd tell you that you're a Donatist heretic.

[Anonymous No.22385311]

>>22385272
Well to throw the trads a bone for once, that reasoning is exactly why I actually find them less cringe than prots and a lot of other things but of course then there could be a whole discussion about how that would mean that if you are a christian, it is always better to be lowly, ignorant, and otherwise inoculated given that it's a zero-sum game of j"ust take sacrements and have no problems". So me and you as intelligent, vigorous people get to be risk being "bad" but of course women, retards, and invalids are basically "good" defacto.

[Anonymous No.22385322]

>>22385311
>Well to throw the trads a bone for once, that reasoning is exactly why I actually find them less cringe than prots
Protestants aren't Donatists, they simply don't view the sacraments or the composition of the church in the same way (e.g. that the Eucharist is an objective change of substance), so they aren't chained down to a particular institution if it becomes co-opted by evil groups.

[Anonymous No.22385419]

>>22385322
Ya but the sacraments can remain relatively static throughout centuries where as when your church is defined by the people in it, who, it must be made very clear, are from the masses and therefore mainly manipulated by the status quo, then it is unquestionably over in this era. Because at that point if you live in westvirginia and your pastor eats squirrel and his conception of God is taken from Hannah Barberra cartoons (this is what God is to most people) your life is now about finding those you judge to have a correct view of things, where ever in this burger king shitland they might be. But then how do you come to a conception of God that is correct when you have no one to help you and you've been programed to be an idiotic, complacent proletariat since birth? And so protestants are the typical neocon essentially: i.e. they say slavery is right in 1800 and say it is absolutely incompatible with christianity in 2000. But they would effectively just say there were secret christians all along, etc etc etc. It's pathetically ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.22385442]

>>22385419
>You have to figure something out for yourself therefore the solution is to join whatever big institution slaughtered all of its competition a long time ago
Good one

[Anonymous No.22385448]

>>22383919
What do you make of the images in the first Temple?

Obviously your definition of "graven image" is wrong