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/lit/ - Literature

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22379123 No.22379123 [Reply] [Original]

Shakespeare is really really overrated. He gets promoted a lot, and he has his uses--legit skill, connection with the U.S, historical value, mental acuity teaching--but he really is like the bible or any other overrated work, something that everyone feels the need to elevate that really is just another literally book, on par with any other contemporary thing. I feel the need to say this because these delusions, these frauds and these lies and the delusions they engender are bad for people, and people should say something.

>> No.22379132

Name art you think is better than Shakespeare or the Bible.

>> No.22379136

>>22379123
Was a pretty good bait until "but he really is like the bible or any other overrated work", too bad anon.

>> No.22379145

>>22379132
Realism in literal art was peak art. I think James Joyce was steps above him, so was DFW.

Look, If all art was lost by some accident, and I was tasked with writing down history for posterity, what I said and wrote would be passed down for as long as that civilization lasted.

I've read the bible, well I've flipped through it, and I can tell you there are different voices between books, and they were all ignorant or a lot of it got lost in translation, and much of it was stupid and trite and the ending parts were comic book like.

Obviously for hundreds of years it was all in latin, but this is what we have

>> No.22379172

>>22379123
Americans don't enjoy culture unless it's invented by jewish people.

>> No.22379198

>>22379172
no one cares. maui just burned to the ground like Dresden in the 40s or pompeii in 500 bc and no one fucking cares. it's a country of fucking narcissists.

>> No.22379217

>>22379123
Other than writing in English he has no connection to the U.S.

>> No.22379244

Given he's considered the top dog it's hardly possible for him to be underrated is it?
But live theatre is unforgiving. A script either works or it doesn't, and you can't fool all the audience all of the time. If they get bored they get bored - they will vote with their feet.
Shakespeare's plays still work live on stage in a way very few plays do. Try putting on most GB Shaw and it will fall flat. Much Ado About Nothing or Macbeth still fly in front of an audience, you cant fake that

>> No.22379264

>>22379132
Dante is better than Shakespeare.

>> No.22379404

>>22379132
Light in august

>> No.22379406

>>22379404
Rush also made better art

>> No.22379436

>>22379198
I realize that this is a popular take, especially outside of the u.s.a., but why not investigate the myriad relief efforts going on all over the nation right now, and while you're at it why not investigate the American *private* response to hurricane Katrina, which was epic. The truth is that there's no more generous people in the world despite its not being part of the 'official narrative', into which (you) have been clearly suckered 'lock, stock, and barrel'. Also, don't mistake your own 'essential narcissism' for that of an entire people.

>> No.22379465

>>22379145
>Realism in literal art was peak art. I think James Joyce was steps above him
The fuck am I reading? Shakespeare wrote stage plays. Joyce was a modernist; PoTA and Dubliners were his only works that dabbled in social realism, neither Ulysses nor, God forbid, Fin's Wake were centered around (social) realism. Fucking Lord of the Rings and Star Wars probably have more in common with another than Joyce and Shakespeare.

>> No.22379521

>>22379465
i'll be honest and say i've never read any of the works he wrote when he was older. I didn't grow up in ireland or seeped in catholitc church teachings or modernist bullshit they were all drinking to and making bank off of. I wasn't part of that and neither am I a cuck, so frankly, I don't give a fucking shit, and I'm not going to waste a single precious second of this life I have trying to decipher some imbecile's horseshit or "art" when I can't even afford it because other fucking idiots are tripping over themselves to buy shit they don't even understand. I'm going to publish a book. Here it is, a word game "'asldkfjsdlifjsdofijsdoifjsdoifjsdoifjsdiofjsdoijfsodifjosidjfs"

Every letter corresponds to something, anything, it's up to you, look it up, give me credit for the really smart shit, pass it on, suck my dick eat my ass I don't fucking care.

>> No.22379549

>>22379521
What on Earth

>> No.22379556

>>22379521
The state of /lit/

>> No.22379930

british vermins hype this Shakespeare turd because that's all they have lol

>> No.22379977

>>22379521
And yet (you) and your reddit spacing are here, on /lit/. Imagine that

>> No.22380003

>I didn't grow up in ireland or seeped in catholitc church teachings
I'm German, from the mostly protestant part, and thus on a surface level Dubliners revolves around little I can personally grasp as far as my own everyday life experience is concerned and yet I consider it a great piece of writing, or one of the best connected short story collections, because despite me not being Irish or a catholic I can sense and feel the interpersonal relations for they are written in a humane and hugely empathetic as well as beautiful manner. Reading, understanding and feeling Dubliners or PotA isn't something only a resident of Dublin can achieve, it's part of what makes the book so great.

>> No.22380173

>>22379145
>Realism
You're a soulless subhuman. People like you are the source of literally every problem society faces today.

>> No.22380181

>>22379977
this. he doesn't want to waste time reading Joyce but he's posting on 4chan. what a convoluted mess of a post

>> No.22380194

>>22379172
What Americans do you personally know, Paco?

>> No.22380197

>>22379198
Narcissism is good actually

>> No.22380200

>>22379436
Agreed

>> No.22380202

>>22379145
>>> DFW > Shakespeare

I pray for your mother that you are not really this retarded.

>> No.22380263

Masterful bait but your effort is wasted on this board since you can bait people just as easily with much less effort.

>> No.22380301

>>22380194
My ancestors who settled Pennsylvania, Juan.

>> No.22380325

>>22380173
Elaborate

>> No.22380336

>>22380325
oversocialized retard mad that his fantasy slop isn't as highly regarded as litfic

>> No.22380356

>>22380202
>>22380263

I'm not retarded and I was not bating so please eleaborate if you have a point to make

>> No.22380414

>>22380301
Based Friend. But that's my Philly father's side of family matters. My mother's side introduced Catholicism (and the best hard liquor) into Eastern Kentucky (from St. Mary's County MD)-- 'Old Granddad' is in fact my old grand uncle; Basil Hayden's older brother William is my 6x great grandfather..
Can it get more pleasantly American? I doubt it.
t. dif anon (:

>> No.22380423

>>22380325
Since the beginning of known history, we've been debating and oscillating between two opposite views of the world. The first view is usually called ‘idealism’ and the second view is usually called ‘materialism’. Idealism is the view that thoughts, ideas and concepts are real and permanent, forming the fundamental reality, while matter is an illusion or a secondary by-product of thoughts. Materialism is the opposite idea, that physical matter is the fundamental reality, while thoughts and concepts are an illusion or a secondary by-product of matter.

While it's nearly impossible to decisively prove or disprove one or the other viewpoint (since the result of any experiment will be interpreted in opposite ways by two people with the opposite viewpoints), these positions are NOT interchangeable. Each comes with a slew of hidden assumptions and a slippery slope leading their adherents down an opposite ideological path.

If you're an ‘idealist’, then you'll generally be inclined to believe that your mind will survive the material body after death. Thus you'll also come to the conclusion that in some way or form, the minds of all your ancestors are still around. You'll view this earthly existence as something temporary and ephemeral, compared with the permanent existence in the realm of ‘ideas’ or ‘spirit’. Thus accepting suffering and sacrifice on earth to respect principles makes a lot of sense, since principles are eternal and real while human suffering is just a temporary illusion. All these ideas will sooner or later germinate in the minds of people who think in terms of ‘idealism’. Those ideas lead to virtue.

If you're a ‘materialist’, then you'll generally be inclined to believe that your mind will disappear completely once your body (‘brain’) disintegrates. Thus any conception of life or reality after death is suspicious or irrelevant at best, compared with material life on this earth which is of primary importance. Since matter is constantly in flux, everything we hold dear in life will eventually disappear, our deeds will be forgotten, what we work towards will disintegrate or become obsolete. Thus the past and the future are of secondary importance, compared with the present moment. There's no point to making sacrifices in the name of principles or virtue, since those things are just arbitrary and illusory ideas, while human suffering is real and a tragedy. Thus the only value of ideas and principles is the immediate pleasure and satisfaction they can bring us - the real meaning of life is to extract as much enjoyment out of it as possible, while avoiding danger and discomfort. All these ideas will sooner or later germinate in the minds of people who think in terms of ‘materialism’. Those ideas lead to degeneracy.

>> No.22380428

>>22380423
My point is that so long that a people is thinking in terms of materialism, it will slowly inch towards degeneracy. It may take hundreds or even thousands of years, but the final destination must absolutely be a hell-hole like we have today. Inversely, if a society thinks in terms of ‘idealism’, it will slowly crawl up towards a different sort of state, a better one, because then people will not hesitate to work hard and sacrifice their comfort for the well-being of others and for the betterment of the future. Materialism drives people to do the opposite and become nihilists, ergo, modern society.

>> No.22380454

>>22379521
Holy mother of based

>> No.22380472

>>22380428
>a hell-hole like we have today.
KWAB

>> No.22380518

>>22380423
You are conveniently leaving out the state of mind and heart that rests neither in idealism or materialism but means all of it and none of it leaves you feeling cross-eyed with your fingers in your ears

>> No.22380550

>>22380423
Now that you got whatever the fuck that is out of your system maybe you'll explain how that relates to realism and the reply chain.

>> No.22380558

i don't get it...