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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 74 KB, 622x1200, stoner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22377666 No.22377666 [Reply] [Original]

What's the deal with his fucking wife? if she didn't want to marry him she could've just said no
It seems that a lot of his problems artificially spring up from his wife having a bitch fit over insanely vain and trivial things

>> No.22377675

>>22377666
>seems like
Lol yeah thats the book. The theme is “what a mediocre/failed life looks like” not “dont marry wrong”, but if were being real his major failure was marrying wrong, hence his life being ruined.

>> No.22377679

>>22377666
I once read the theory that his wife was raped by her father, but that seemed like a bit of a stretch.

>> No.22377688

>>22377679
Its a popular theory on here but Id only heard it after reading the book and if its true it went right over my head. But I do think its certainly possible that that’s the case.

>> No.22377825

>>22377679
It’s pretty explicit n the text. She is described as somehow pleased that her father dies and burns some photos or something that he gave her. She was absolutely abused by him.

>> No.22377841

>>22377688
>on here
The retards here think Holden fucked his sister. So much for "on here."

>> No.22377845

>>22377825
That is very far from explicit. Do you know what that word means?

>> No.22377855

>>22377679

It should be obvious based on her childhood why Edith is severely mentally ill

It doesn't have to be rape you grognard

>> No.22377864

>>22377825
maybe she was just a lesbo but it was like the 1920s

>> No.22377988

>>22377864
This was my interpretation when I read it

>> No.22378020

>>22377825
or maybe she just thought that her father, by being strict and trad and all that, set her up for a miserable life with Stoner and resented him for it

>> No.22378398

>>22377666
He rapes his wife, Edith.

>> No.22378866

>>22378398
Correct
>Out of an unspoken stubbornness they both had, they shared the same bed; sometimes at night, in her sleep, she unknowingly moved against him. And sometimes, then, his resolve and knowledge crumbled before his love, and he moved upon her. If she was sufficiently roused from her sleep she tensed and stiffened, turning her head sideways in a familiar gesture and burying it in her pillow, enduring violation; at such times Stoner performed his love as quickly as he could, hating himself for his haste and regretting his passion. Less frequently she remained half numbed by sleep; then she was passive, and she murmured drowsily, whether in protest or surprise he did not know. He came to look forward to these rare and unpredictable moments, for in that sleep-drugged acquiescence he could pretend to himself that he found a kind of response.

>> No.22378869 [DELETED] 

>>22378398
You can't your wife

>> No.22378872

>>22378398
You can't rape your wife

>> No.22378952

>>22377666
A sensitive man SHOULD NEVER FUCKING EVER marry or have a family. Pessoa really understood this nuance.

>> No.22378977

>>22377855
She's a woman, of course it was rape

>> No.22378993

>>22378952
Pessoa suffered greatly because of loneliness

>> No.22379007

>>22378993
That was an aesthetic choice. So what he suffered? He also milked extreme amount of aesthetic pleasure from his contemplation too. I have seen so much suffering in marriages, everyone make each other more miserable as the years piles up. But a sensitive man will NEVER cope well and he will double his suffering. Marriag is for the non-sensitive who upon waking up forget the bullshit of previous day.

If the sensitive man is going to make a family he should know in advance that he is going to get hurt A LOT.

>> No.22379115

>>22379007
Okay you convinced me

>> No.22379151

>>22378952
>Pessoa really understood this nuance.
I don’t think he did. You can overthink everything but there needs to be a moment where you put it in practice and he never did.
You can demoralise yourself and subconsciously set yourself out with failure but that doesn’t make it so.
Show me the sayings of a non alcoholic sensitive man who actually tried a relationship, and not someone bereft by his own neuroticism (he should have gotten help in getting out of his self-sabotaging mindset).

>> No.22379174

>>22379115
Then try the novel family experience. Don't fag out. Pop out half a dozen kids. I really hope that you have the sensitivity of a poet for this family adventure. Goodluck

>>22379151
>he was heckin mentally ill and not normal and decent reddit approved human bean
Kill yourself fucking subhuman

>> No.22379190

>>22379174
?

>> No.22379195

>>22379190
I thought you were being ironic

>> No.22379271

>>22379195
No, you truly convinced me. Not ironic, friend.

>> No.22379287

>>22379007
If youre sensitive youll be hurt either way. Im sensitive but I raise a family. Its hard but if I wasnt responsible for something I wouldnt take care of myself either.

>> No.22379290
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22379290

Stoner? More like bone her (against her will)

>> No.22379292

>>22378866
I always saw Edith as being someone who felt pressured to act a certain "ladylike" way. She just went through the motions in her life, with 0 passion for any of it, I think this is why the Europe trip was something she was looking forward to it gave her a chance to sort of find herself or be truly inspired by something. I don't really think it was rape so much as her sort of begrudgingly dealing with it when she had no desire for sex with him. This also explains why she went out of her way to stifle her daughter's intellectual curiosity that the stoner attempted to nurture. Whenever I refer to the pages of stoners parents I imagine dust and stagnation, I think the story deals with the idea of ambition a lot. I don't think she ever got raped explicitly nor do I think that even if she did it was her primary motivation

>> No.22379302

>>22379292
Ya I honestly think its an incel mentality. In real relationships the lines of consent are blurred. When it is forgivable is when there is passion in the relationship. If it is stale then these moments seem like a bad thing but either way if you married him then just shut up and take it.

>> No.22379305

>>22379302
Exactly. The word rape is far too strong for this case

>> No.22379329

>>22378866
Goddamn. How do you not leave your wife if daring to show a little passion for her is met with disgust. Don't rape the woman, but the first signs of a loveless marital bed (outside of illness, pregnancy or just despondency), would convince me it's time to high-tail it out there. Why suffer for years with all this shame and tip-toeing.

>> No.22379360

The book seemed like a warning to me.

>> No.22379450

>>22379305

I agree and it also is reflective of a hyper modern zoomer understanding of consent

Look at the world in which Edith and Stoner grew up. Did they really understand the modern nuances of consent?

He didn't force her over the bed

>> No.22379453

>>22379450
one thing that stood out to me is how when she wanted the dee should would lay naked on the bed and pretend to be asleep or whatever, and one night after a party or something, stoner comes to the bedroom to see her laying there naked obviously hoping to get some, and he just puts on his pajamas and go to sleep. i was like what a dick.

>> No.22379458

>>22379453

When I was in a bad relationship we would constantly do stuff like that to each other as a passive aggressive fuck you and it rings very true to me

Reading this in my late 20s is making me think of her bros...

>> No.22379467

>>22379458
ya i think stoner is one of those books you have to be older to get the most out of. the stuff with lomax will also ring true to older people who have been in a career for a while. you have to be careful about making enemies at work because you don't know when they will get promoted above you, and now they have power over you. choose your battles carefully, was walker really a good hill for stoner's career to die on? idk but let it be a warning to zoomers. that said, stoner could have published another better book to boost his career but he just coasted on his one mediocre effort which is another thing that will happen to you if you're not careful.

>> No.22379485

>>22379458
Same here. 29 and married, I might be bipolar but a couple months ago a huge wave of nostalgia hit me and I fell into a weird obsessive fit where I was writing randomly concerning my feelings about my ex then she reached out the next day for the first time in years I couldnt believe it and started questioning my whole life. But that fits over and Im good now. My wifes awesome and its way better to be in a relationship with someone who you arent constantly at war with, even if it is insanely passionate. That shits for young people but there are always new adventures in store.

>> No.22379515
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22379515

>>22377679
>his wife was raped by her father, but that seemed like a bit of a stretch.

That's what she said.

>> No.22379766

>>22379174
>Kill yourself fucking subhuman
The only one that needs culling are those stifled by irrational fears and hypnotising others in their delusion.
Being sensitive doesn’t exclude family live at all, I can barely grasp how you came to such a non sequitur.