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/lit/ - Literature

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2236907 No.2236907 [Reply] [Original]

>that feel when "well-written" classic literature never achieved imaginative and exciting stories

style over substance

>> No.2236911

style is substance. overlay is substance.

pew pew and explosions and wizards are not substance.

gtfo, pleb.

>> No.2236913
File: 258 KB, 321x388, the-queen-is-skinless-with-disbelief.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2236913

>yfw OP is a particularly unsubtle troll

>> No.2236914

>>2236913
Doesn't mean he can't inspire interesting conversation.

Carrot soup from carrots, as they say.

>> No.2236916

>>2236911

false dichotomy, it's not either frivolous dinner parties or mindless pulp action

but someone with no substance wouldn't understand this, carry on

>> No.2236917

>a lonely captain driven to madness by his quest to hunt the white whale
>a doctor determined to find the secret of life and reanimate the dead
>a twenty-year look at a powerful southern family's downfall
>a retelling of the odyssey in dublin over a single day
>a determined law student rationalizes murder with philosophy half a century ahead of its time

>> No.2236918

What do you mean by well written literature? Dune and lord of the rings are pretty imaginative. Don't use kits overly exclusive pretentious definition for what good literatue is.

Intelligent people know there are thousands upon thousands of well written imaginative si fi and fantasy books.

>> No.2236919

>>2236917
>a doctor determined to find the secret of life and reanimate the dead

i feel dumb but what is this?

>> No.2236922

>>2236919
Frankenstein

>> No.2236923

>>2236918
if you have insanely low standards for what well written is, sure.

>> No.2236924

>>2236922
OOOOOOOHHHH

>> No.2236926

>>2236924
what's especially funny is I knew all the other ones immediately

>> No.2236928

>>2236917

>implying the premise is explored and action and intrigue take place

nope

>> No.2236929

the best fantasy stories were written before fantasy even became a thing

>> No.2236930

>>2236918

yes but our critics and academics think dune and Lotr are trash genre shit

>> No.2236932

>>2236923
See what I mean about this board being full of pretentious assholes? I mean, who else would possibly gravitate toward a literary board on....wait for the punchline....4chan!

It's safe to just presume everyone here is a worthless unemployed asshole who dropped out of college and reads all day in their parents basement desperately trying to convince themselves they're not fuckup idiots. Just underachievers.

>> No.2236934

>>2236930
>implying academia doesn't recognize tolkien as an amazing linguist

academia loves lotr.

why do you comment about shit you know nothing about?

>> No.2236935

there are probably about a hundred good fantasy and science fiction books.

>> No.2236938

>>2236935
probably, yes.

>> No.2236937

>>2236934
what legitimate contributions to linguistics did tolkien make?

>> No.2236952

>>2236937
He invented Sindarin and Quenya.

>> No.2236958

>>2236952
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOIM1_xOSro&t=2m42s

>> No.2236969

When you get to a certain level in a medium, the form and function are meshed together at all levels.

>video games
>just have fun with stuff
>eventually come to appreciate better stories, good graphics, good lore, use of sounds and/or music, the style and the way everything ties together

>paintings
>oh that's pretty
>eventually come to appreciate the strokes, the textures, the emotions they are trying to convey or evoke, the various styles at play, the way shapes or colors are used uniquely to the piece

>book
>this is a cool story
>come to appreciate the way the sentence flows, a paragraph is formed, the use of language to bring out something special and individual to the experience, a harmonious uniformity while still delivering a story

Look at A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, the book and its title. It really is a portrait, but in book form. If a portrait and the experience of it could be transcribed into written word it would be a lot like that, I'd think. Sensations, experiences, tones; some things come sharply to the forefront while others remain behind, vague and blurred but powerful. Though it may not be able to completely do a visual portrait justice in words, it can certainly draw a picture in a way an actual portrait could not do. The style was part of the substance, nigh indistinguishable. At least, it's one way of looking at it.

>> No.2236973

>>2236969
>good lore
hehe more like a good bore amirite?

>> No.2236974

>>2236973
No.

>> No.2236994

>>2236969
>video games
>eventually come to appreciate better stories, good graphics, good lore, use of sounds and/or music, the style and the way everything ties together
I like how you didn't even mention gameplay, mechanics, challenge, variation and complexity, etc.

>> No.2236999
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2236999

>>2236994
They were just a couple general examples. If I listed EVERYTHING, the post would be a mile long. Even you put an "etc". I tried to make up for it by saying "the way everything ties together".

>> No.2237001

>>2236999
that anon was just pointing out how you completely ignored what makes a video game a fucking game

>> No.2237003
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2237003

>>2236958

''None other than my main man Noman Chomsky''

>mfw

>> No.2237066

>>2236969 has little formal education, I'm guessing

>> No.2237069

>>2236994
>implying gameplay in video games isn't just 'press x not to die' and 'shoot shit dead with ur gun'

Also everything is brown in video games these days.

I can't believe plebs still play that shit.

>> No.2237081

>>2237069
>implying your teeth aren't covered in feces

>> No.2237082

>>2237069

I can't believe you have such poor taste in video games.

Console games are all a joke. PC gamers laugh at them.

If you want to play some GOOD GAMES

gta san andreas, trine, civilization 5(or any of them), portal1/2, half life (really anything by valve, all they do is make gems), plants vs zombies, majesty 1/2, the oddbox, deus Ex, batman arkham asylum

all of those games are 8/10 or above.

Anyway, back to /lit/

OP, the type of literature /lit/ likes is artificially limited by eveyone on this board being a pretentious asshole. The second someone claimed they enjoyed stream of consciousness writing by Joyce I came to that conclusion. (i dont think ulysses is TERRIBLE, but i think it is a concept work. Meant to expand the boundaries of literature. It isnt, by itself, a good work.)

>> No.2237084
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2237084

>>2236958
>'Plela' would be better for 'dog'

>> No.2237086

>>2237082

>read post
>i cant believe this retarded cunt
>see name

Nothing out of the ordinary here.

>> No.2237089

>>2237086

You know the work of art that is 'the fountain'?

Ulysses is the equivalent of that. But in literature. Its a concept piece, it isnt really good.

>> No.2237091

>a determined law student rationalizes murder with philosophy half a century ahead of its time

what is this?

>> No.2237094

>>2237086
Don't worry. Deist has never (and probably won't ever) read "Ulysses." His opinion (par for the course) is uneducated.

>> No.2237109

>>2237094

I dont need to mutilate my penis to know its probably not a good idea.

>> No.2237123

Read Aspects of The Novel by E.M. Forster.

Story is a required element of a novel, it's something that it's obligated to have. It's like a little bacterial element in the novel's digestion system. It's not pretty, but god damnit we need it.

It's not something to be embellished or really devote a lot of time too. A story is no more than "The king died, and then the queen died". The things that really make a novel great work around that, not through that.

>> No.2237145

>>2237001
And I wanted to just vaguely list some examples while maybe alluding to the rest. I know what makes a game a game. That wasn't the point of my post. My point was that EVERYTHING contributes to the overall experience to make something good. My point was not to list every single merit or feature of something, only to choose a couple random ones as they pertain, in my mind, to the topic.

You're getting all bent out of shape over a somewhat-related example which, in itself, wasn't that important to the complete point I was trying to make. Why focus on that one tiny, near-insignificant detail when what I was saying is still there? I could replace game with some other media if you're really that mad about it. How about music? Sculpting?

>> No.2237166

>>2237091
crime & punishment

>> No.2237178

>>2237166
thanks

>> No.2237180

>>2237166

I've only read brothers K. by him. Fine book. That plot sounds really interesting.

>> No.2237332

>>2237123
Yes! Yes! Somebody else has read it!

>> No.2238310

interesting plot/conflict >> every other aspect of a novel

Deal with it.

You guys are worse than hipsters.

>> No.2238317

>>2238310

Plot is not story. Learn the difference, pleb.

>> No.2238350
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2238350

>>2238310

>> No.2238366

>>2236907

Hot girl would fuck. Source, OP?

>> No.2238374

>>2238366

you know that is a guy right?


...its always a guy

>> No.2238376

>>2238366

>girl

>> No.2238389

>>2236932

Fuck up. I'm still in university after receiving a scholarship for being one of the best students in my country.

I'm not the only one.

>> No.2238406
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2238406

>>2238366

That's Bailey Jay (previously known as Linetrap).

>> No.2238410

>>2236917

I know Moby Dick, Frankenstein, and Ulysses. What are:

>a twenty-year look at a powerful southern family's downfall
>a determined law student rationalizes murder with philosophy half a century ahead of its time

>> No.2238421
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2238421

>mfw good sci-fi has both style and substance

>> No.2238428

>>2238410
The first is Faulkner's "Sound and the Fury"
Second is probably something dumb.

>> No.2238430

>>2238421
you wouldn't know good style or substance if it smashed your dick with steel-toed boots

>> No.2238431

>>2238428
The first one sounds like Absalom, Absalom. The second is Crime and Punishment, dumb fuck.

>> No.2238432

>>2238428
It's Crime and Punishment you dumbass

>> No.2238445

>>2236907
>that feel when you have been on 4chan so long that you know who that person is in OP's pic.

>> No.2238454

>>2238445

Linetrap was mid-2007, and has been posted frequently ever since, so that face should be pretty underwhelmed.

>> No.2238471
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2238471

>>2238430
Because self-injury fetishism is the only reason why anybody would want to read "classic" /lit/ in the first place

amirite?

>> No.2238475

>>2238471
the word "masochism" exists fyi

>> No.2238483

>>2238475
I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

>> No.2238496

>>2238475
Who do you think you are, Doctor Suess? Stop making up all these silly words.

>> No.2238509

>>2236917
>a determined law student rationalizes murder with philosophy half a century ahead of its time
what is this?

>> No.2238514

>>2238509
That's already been answered you stupid cad.
In case you don't know how to use CTRL+F it is Crime and Punishment.

>> No.2239556

bump to show how stupid OP is

>> No.2239564

I am actually one for substance over style and generally prefer classics. For example, Don Quixote is among my favourite books but I think the writing can be quite sloppy at times: but the characters, themes and plot is fantastic.

The problem with a lot of modern fantasy and other similar genres is that they may imagine fantastical and amazing worlds but without the realistic and grounded characters the entire novel fails. DH Lawrence in the Fox managed to make three people sitting quietly by a fire the most pivotal and tense moment in the story through nuance. A lot of modern fiction thinks the only way to achieve such dramatic tension is through huge, grand actions when something as small as the way someone sits on a chair can produce the same effect when done by a master.