/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22367201]

spengler thread

do you think his predictions were right on the mark?
do you think he missed anything?
do you think his solutions are viable?
discuss

[Anonymous No.22367214]

sex gifs

[Anonymous No.22367291]

bump

[Anonymous No.22367462]

>>22367201
>do you think his predictions were right on the mark?
Too early to tell. But probably broadly correct. Modern tech might change things a bit though.
> Do you think he missed anything?
Not as knowledgeable as him.
>do you think his solutions are viable?

No

[Anonymous No.22367522]

>>22367201
perfect

[Anonymous No.22367722]

>>22367462
>Modern tech might change things a bit though
how so?

[Anonymous No.22367745]

>>22367201
Yeah. The main reason for the West's decline is white people.
>niggercattle of the jews
>negrolatrers
>goyslop enthusiasts
>vidya soi addicts
How tf can a culture survive with such dysgenic population? It cannot.

[Anonymous No.22367822]

>>22367201
I think he was correct about the pattern leading up to the present, though since he couldn't possibly foresee a shift in the pattern he might not be correct about the future.
So if the pattern throughout history has been (for example):
>1,3,1,2,1,3,1,2, etc...
You would logically assume the next number is one, but what if that is just the beginning of the pattern and really the next number in the sequence is 4 and the sequence has more to it than anticipated?

I've been reading Ellul's Technologial Society and he raises the idea of "technique" and how it is a historical anomaly. Up until now cultures and societies had a more spontaneous and organic approach to thought and evolution. IIRC Spengler said that when culture becomes civilization the culture calcifies and the cultural organism ceases to be elastic and spontaneous; but up until now it has never been so all-consuming as "technique" and it has not been global.
Technique is like the lifeless period of old age on steroids - and modern medicine and life support. Either this is it and "the system" wins - we all live in the pods and eat ze bugs - or there is a complete and total system failure that makes the bronze age collapse look like a 3rd grade science project volcano.
The only other option is some kind of a miracle and a harmonious synthesis is reached between technique and the human spirit.

[Anonymous No.22368315]

>>22367201
>solutions
I thought the point was that there are no solutions and the west is doomed to fall.

[Anonymous No.22368410]

>>22367201
He forgot to factor technological advancements lol.

[Anonymous No.22368721]

>>22367201
I think in general he put forth some interesting trends and was correct in general but a lot of specifics were off. DotW was and ambitious book. I admire Spengler’s autistic mind

[Anonymous No.22368734]

>>22367745
Lol. Whites are the only people capable of fighting back, it's why they want them replaced with shitskins. Non-whites exemplify all the traits you identify more than actual white people, within a generation, shit-tier indians and muslims are the most retarded consumerist bugmen you've ever seen. Meanwhile there are lots of whites who know what is going on and still have traditions and principles to uphold, which is why white people are under attack on all fronts by the media, academia, the governments, etc.

[Anonymous No.22368749]

I’ve only read half of the first book. But it’s kind of funny, for how much he talks against the arts in favor of technics, he sure is good at writing poetically. But I don’t even really believe in his basic thesis of culture, I believe in a more progressive view of history. His arguments against aren’t even all that compelling but it was still fun to read.

[Anonymous No.22368756]

>>22368749
>I believe in a more progressive view of history.
Progressing towards what? And do you deny that civilizations are basically cyclical?

[Anonymous No.22368795]

>>22368756
>do you deny that civilizations are basically cyclical
its more of a spiral than a circle

[Anonymous No.22369065]

the introduction is 51 pages, should I just skip it all and go straight to chapter 2? im 20 pages in and so far he's just mused about the flaws of classical history-keeping and jerking off Goethe or Nietsche

[Anonymous No.22369084]

>>22368795
Spirals are cyclical or circular you pseud.

[Anonymous No.22369119]

>>22367201
read Kondylis instead of Spengler

[Anonymous No.22369130]

>>22367201
His analysis is correct, some stuff he didn't get right tho.
>>22369119
Why?

[Anonymous No.22369144]

>>22369130
has a better description about how and why of contemporary society (he called it Mass Democracy and it isn't just exclusive to Western Political Systems)

start with Planetary Politics after the Cold War

[Anonymous No.22369489]

>>22369144
>and it isn't just exclusive to Western Political Systems
Spengler didn't call democracy exclusive to western faustianism. Democracy is what comes with large cities and power of money, all cultures go through it.

[Anonymous No.22369543]

>>22369119
I enjoyed his critique of Heidegger.

[Anonymous No.22369657]

>>22369489

[Anonymous No.22369660]

>>22369657

[Anonymous No.22369666]

>>22369660

[Anonymous No.22369670]

>>22369666

[Anonymous No.22369691]

Didn't Spengler predict that things would really start to break down by the year 2000? And if that's the case he WAS right, because 2000 is when shit really starts to get strange in the West.

[Anonymous No.22369784]

I don’t think Spengler accounted well enough for the changes technology could have and I also think he didn’t do well enough to point out what made each civilization alike in the first place. This was basically Ernst Jünger’s criticism and I think it’s fair. He also relied too heavily on Greece and Rome and didn’t investigate the Magian well enough. His basic presuppositions are also flawed. From a logical point of view, they don’t quite make sense. The book is incredible though.

[Anonymous No.22370668]

>>22369657
>>22369660
>>22369666
>>22369670
that was an enjoyable read, thanks anon
also why does he love using brackets so much? are they the direct translations from german or something?

[Anonymous No.22370682]

>>22369657
Spengler isn't a theorist. He only describes what he sees

[Anonymous No.22370683]

>>22369119
>>22369144
>>22369657
>>22369660
>>22369666
>>22369670
>He can be placed in a tradition of thought best exemplified by Thucydides, Niccolò Machiavelli and Max Weber.[4]
sounds like another midcentury cult leader, hard pass

[Anonymous !Jesus/ZKfo No.22370690]

>>22367822
Or maybe Christ returns tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.22370727]

>>22369144
>no Epubs on libgen

[Anonymous No.22370738]

>>22369691
More like back to normal. The 90s was an anomaly due to the fall of the Soviet Union and American-bought quiet.

[Anonymous No.22370787]

>>22370668
>also why does he love using brackets so much?

the translator's fault

>are they the direct translations from german or something?

there are no official translations in english but there are unofficial ones in his site, german and greeks editions are availaible

[Anonymous No.22370788]

>>22370727
https://www.panagiotiskondylis.com

[Anonymous No.22370808]

>>22370682
spengler is an astrologer who didn't even knew society radically changed since 1900, he's a mere buffoon compared to Kondylis

[Anonymous No.22370817]

>>22370808

[Anonymous No.22370944]

>>22370808
Society will change as soon as everyone exits the matrix and start lynching jews. Rationalistic and materialistic 'men' like Kondylis, this kike who doesn't even come close to possessing Spengler's psychological insight, would not survive Caesarism

[Anonymous No.22370952]

>>22370944
>mfw illiterate plebs latch on spengler because he's their baby first historian philosopher

[Anonymous No.22371002]

>>22370952
you seem to have a hard on for this guy so can you tell us
what does he do and say right that spengler doesn't?

[Anonymous No.22371721]

>>22367201
I'm a bit disappointed that he never explored the possibility of the Faustian spirit engulfing every other world-spirit through technics. He implies the opposite, that different races would hijack technics and turn it against the Faustian race but never considers the corrupting power of Technics and how it would inevitably alter the spiritual constitution of the barbarian races.

[Anonymous No.22372453]

>>22370944
Your brain is fried and you lack any intellectual ability.
>>22370788
Interesting, I was interested in Kondylis anyway due to the rekindled interest in him in the Germanosphere. I might read Planetarische Politik nach dem kalten Krieg soon.

[Anonymous No.22373629]

>>22368410
He wrote a book called Man and Technics, retard. Read more books before posting on 4channel.org, kindly.

[Anonymous No.22373656]

>>22367214
he does look like hank

[Anonymous No.22373750]

>>22372453
>I was interested in Kondylis anyway due to the rekindled interest in him in the Germanosphere

tell me more

[Anonymous No.22373756]

>>22371002
>>22369144

[Anonymous No.22373940]

>>22373750
>tell me more
Matthes und Seitz rereleased his monography on conservatism and will also publish a short book containing interviews with him this month.

https://www.matthes-seitz-berlin.de/autor/panajotis-kondylis.html

They're obviously not bestsellers but through spread of mouth he has become a bit more well-known in some circles I'd say.

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/buecher/rezensionen/sachbuch/panajotis-kondylis-studie-ueber-den-konservativismus-neu-aufgelegt-18753616.html

https://www.welt.de/kultur/literarischewelt/plus243871321/Politik-Panajotis-Kondylis-erklaert-uns-die-Krise-der-Konservativen.html

[Anonymous No.22373955]

>>22373940
that's good news, germans ought to read them, i hope there are official english translations in the future

[brutusanon No.22373956]

>>22367201
"Events have become unpredictable on the basis of form. Instead of the given tradition that can dispense with genius (because it is itself cosmic force at highest capacity), we have now the accident of great fact men. The accident of their rise brings a weak people (for example, the Macedonians), to the peak of events overnight, and the accident of their death (for example, Caesar’s) can immediately plunge a world from personally secured order into chaos."
We have substituted primordial order with mundane chaos. We are dying and being born all the time in a Baudrillardian vortex of instant/perpetual destruction of meaning and identity. In such a state predictions are impossible because time is non linear anymore. Cause and effect mutually destroy each other as they approach simultaneity. Beyond cause and effect is the accident Spengler observes. A temporal entity that cannot be defined as a cause or effect and cannot be specified in which way it is a cause and in which an effect. Utter meaninglessness.
How can you predict in such situations?
What is there to miss? You are forced to miss most of it, but it is all mundane so did you really miss anything of importance?
What are the solutions to this
Your questions are thus veiled:
"What the West has said and thought, hitherto, on the problems of space, time, motion, number, will, marriage, property, tragedy, science, has remained narrow and dubious, because men were always looking for the solution of the question. It was never seen that many questioners implies many answers, that any philosophical question is really a veiled desire to get an explicit affirmation of what is implicit in the question itself, "
Funnily looking for a solution here is also looking for a dilution, or a great dispersal of elements, thinning of meaning:
"This prime feeling of a loosing, Erlösung, solution, of the Soul in the Infinite, of a liberation from all material heaviness which the highest moments of our music always awaken, sets free also the energy of depth that is in the Faustian soul: whereas the effect of the Classical art work is to bind and to bound, and the body feeling secures, brings back the eye from distance to a Near and Still that is saturated with beauty."
Is this a prophecy? Who won? The military or the bankers?
"But for this very reason there now sets in the final battle between Democracy and Caesarism, between the leading forces of dictatorial money economics and the purely political will-to-order of the Caesars. And in order to understand this final battle between Economics and Politics, in which the latter reconquers its realm, we must now turn our glance upon the physiognomy of economic history."
https://pastebin.com/P3rVFrue

[Anonymous No.22374108]

>>22367745
I don't think spengler was able to account for the therapeutic state
>men don't lust war when they have simulated war

[Anonymous No.22374121]

>>22369084
>non Euclidean automatically means circular
Other anon is right, and you just outted yourself

[Anonymous No.22374130]

How many trannies did he predict?
Did he predict inwards flooding all urban areas?
What is DEVO?

[Anonymous No.22374414]

I don't know about his predictions but he can sure write some wonderful prose. I was amazed how much of Decline reads like poetry. He has some great passages. Def not what I was expecting when I first started reading it

[Anonymous No.22374423]

>>22373955
germananon here again, jesus christ, what the fuck is up with that english kondylis fanpage?

[Anonymous No.22374431]

>>22374423
yup, the guy who does the unofficial english translation is a full blown schizo, which makes the whole thing funnier than it should be

[Anonymous No.22374487]

>>22367822
>or there is a complete and total system failure that makes the bronze age collapse look like a 3rd grade science project volcano.
This is my guess, but who knows.

[Anonymous No.22374494]

>>22369065
Read everything

[Anonymous No.22374497]

>>22367822
Ernst Jünger’s critique was similar. He said he paid too much attention to what made the cultures in his alike while ignoring what made them different, the implication being that there is something unique about the current that doesn’t fit the pattern.

[Anonymous No.22374503]

>>22367822
Just thinking logically, Spengler’s model implies there would be a sort of Bronze Age collapse but only after the fall of the West, many centuries in the future. He also predicted that much of Western technology would unwind in the coming centuries because Western man had come to hate the machine. It’s literally as easy as choosing not to use it, which with Caesarism and the second religiousness enters the scene as the norm.

[Anonymous No.22374521]

>>22374503
>Caesarism
which still hasn't happened in any meaningful way, really

[Anonymous No.22374538]

>>22374521
But that’s besides the point