Is it over for male fiction novelists?

[Anonymous No.22360359]

Been seeing more and more posts and articles lately about how men, particularly straight men, are finding it nearly impossible to get published traditionally. It's to the point where even some female authors/agents comment on the issue, but then get silenced by other women. There are, of course, still men publishing but they're mainly older, already established authors. Things have gotten to the point where 80% of the people that buy books and that run the publishing industry are women. Boys who aren't just completely absorbed with video games have largely fucked off to read manga/webnovels, and it's probably a factor in why they're being increasingly left behind in education. Male writers are aiming for video game writing/screen writing instead. Is there any hope of this turning around, or are self-publishing and webnovels the only way forward for aspiring male authors?

A recent sauce
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10129903/Best-selling-writer-BORIS-STARLING-examines-male-authors-written-fiction.html

[Anonymous No.22360370]

>dailymail
lol. I have had no major issues getting published despite being straight, white, male and not writing about topical things.

[Anonymous No.22360405]

>>22360370
Forgot to add, my 10 inch (flaccid) penis is capable of ejecting cum at 1000psi, forcibly impregnating you're mom at a distance

[Anonymous No.22360449]

>It worked out for me, so the problem doesn't exist
There are plenty of other articles on this issue from a variety of sites. It's been discussed here, the site that shall not be named, and tons of other writing forums. There are outright quotes from major publishers saying things to established authors like, "we’re going to take a break from white, male novelists for a while." And even then, the being white is less of a problem than just being male. 94% of authors are white. Only about 25% of best selling fiction titles in 2020 were written by men, a percentage that's certainly decreased since.

[Anonymous No.22360451]

>>22360370
>It worked out for me, so the problem doesn't exist
There are plenty of other articles on this issue from a variety of sites. It's been discussed here, the site that shall not be named, and tons of other writing forums. There are outright quotes from major publishers saying things to established authors like, "we’re going to take a break from white, male novelists for a while." And even then, the being white is less of a problem than just being male. 94% of authors are white. Only about 25% of best selling fiction titles in 2020 were written by men, a percentage that's certainly decreased since.

[Anonymous No.22360453]

>>22360359
Empty headed modern fiction consumers are highly susceptible to reading the absolute sloppiest sloppin' shit because the author has a pussy, is some sort of sex pervert, is a disabled immigrant bipoc blatinx, or is a raging libshit.
The people want slop, so the publishing companies will give them slop.

[Anonymous No.22360469]

>>22360451
>there are loads of reliable sources but I am going to give you shit instead!
Publishing is a business, they don't care who the author is just if they can sell them. If people are buying minority authors then that is what they are going to publish and publishing white men would be affirmative action in that situation. Ultimately we are in the same situation as we were 100 years ago when most authors were white males, still had to rise above the shit and prove yourself if you wanted to get published, crying will not do it.

[Anonymous No.22360473]

>>22360359
It's demoralization propaganda.
Just write.

[Anonymous No.22360474]

Literature is a dead medium. Sorry if it hurts to hear. There's no money, no fame, but more importantly, no cultural relevance in literature anymore. It's a form of art that ran it's course and concluded. Published literature of today is a plaything, cute little past time for upper class liberal women to fill up their valid days. Literature passed from being a real thing onto an aesthetic symbol. Like, say, swordfighting. Thousands of people are still fascinated by bladed weapons and fencing arts, but none of them study it to defend their homes or conquer new lands. The enjoy the idea of purpose knowing full well that purpose no longer exists. People who want to say something, to express themselves, to change the world or whatnot, have endless better avenues to choose from. YouTube, social media influence, programming, science, engineering, music, videogames, political discourse, streaming, pornography, even memes and 4chan.
Why would anyone spend their life writing the Next Great Novel only to have it be read by a score of bored moms?

[Anonymous No.22360475]

>>22360370
I forgot to add that I am trans if that matters

[Anonymous No.22360478]

>>22360359
In 2022, 75% of published authors were white, and 50% were male. Only 16% were LGBT. Everyone rages about race and gender and other culture war garbage but nobody cares that the average age of a published writer is 42. As always, you should really be mad at boomers for refusing to hand over the reins.

[Anonymous No.22360498]

>>22360478
Very cool statistic, anon. I don’t think your ass is a legitimate source

[Anonymous No.22360502]

>>22360498
Google it retard

[Anonymous No.22360507]

>>22360502
Do you really think someone who uses the dailymail as a source is going to accept any other source regardless of what it is?

[Anonymous No.22360508]

>>22360502
No, retard, I won’t. Give the link or fuck off back to plebbit where you belong

[Anonymous No.22360519]

>>22360469
Except the vast majority of new authors aren't male anymore, mate, that's the point. We're in a chicken or the egg situation where male books drop off a cliff in YA so teenage boys don't read them and rarely advance to adult books. The industry pays good lip service to minorities with stuff like #ownvoices, but the reality is that it's much less of a consideration if you're a man. LGBT men get cut a bit more slack, but not much. And we are in such a wildly different situation than 100 years ago in so many ways such as oversaturation of the industry and plummeting literacy rates that I don't even know why you'd draw the comparison. Acknowledging an issue isn't crying.

>>22360478
>but nobody cares that the average age of a published writer is 42.
Anon, that's literally my whole point. I've seen significantly lower percentages in the sources I'm looking at, but even if the amount of male authors is currently as high as 50%, the vast majority of them are already established novelists. When you look at debuts, you'll find significantly fewer males than females.

>>22360507
NTA. And like I said, this topic's been discussed on far more than dailymail. Here's more.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/may/16/how-women-conquered-the-world-of-fiction#comments
https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/57815/1/opinion-can-we-please-have-more-young-male-novelists-2023-barry-pierce

[Anonymous No.22360536]

>>22360478
>75% of published authors were white
How many of these are white and not (((white))) or my-great-great-uncle-was-irish caramel mutts named Jose?
>50% were male
How many of these identify as one, aren't faggots, younger than 90, and not called Stephen King?
>Only 16%
I like how it's considered mild when ONLY a fifth of culture is dedicated to sexual deviants

[Anonymous No.22360543]

>>22360519
Minorities of all sorts have been forced to read white men for centuries, and often seen themselves either represented as hideous caricatures or not represented at all. Some of them graduated to art and academia anyway, and all this without the most powerful information tool in the history of mankind (the same platform zoomers spend their entire lives on, I might add). Required reading will never be enjoyable. If the "men" of today can't power through a shitty school curriculum like every generation before them then they're just too dumb for lit, sorry. Funny how this board's veneer of elitism slips right off when this is brought up.

[Anonymous No.22360547]

>>22360359
Look, if you are that bent out of shape about it just claim to be gay.

[Anonymous No.22360550]

>>22360519
>Except the vast majority of new authors aren't male anymore, mate,
So demoralize males so they don't even try? Are you really trying to make the case that publishers will turn their back on a good writer who they can make money off of for something as superficial as gender? Why not motivate men to write, help cultivate the culture and community instead being a /pol/tard? But you won't do that, you want to be the victim because that means you are right.

I got published because when I got all those rejections I took it to mean that I am not yet good enough and kept working on getting better. And you know what, I got published and I continue to get published.

[Anonymous No.22360553]

>>22360536
>my-great-great-uncle-was-irish caramel mutts named Jose
Why would this guy identify as white when it's apparently so much easier to get published as a minority?

[Anonymous No.22360564]

>>22360359
I'm amazed that people still get published in the first place.
It's a medium that hasn't changed much over time, and the changes it has been through haven't all been beneficial to begin with.
Why would I want to read a new work of fiction from some literally who rather than something for an established writer who died 30 years ago?

[Anonymous No.22360569]

>>22360359
Publishers chasing ESG will begin inducing authors to use pen names and get off scott free out of desperation, and pay them bigger fees to tolerate such ingnomy.

[Anonymous No.22360575]

>>22360547
>op
>claim

[Anonymous No.22360592]

>>22360564
>Why would I want to read a new work of fiction from some literally who rather than something for an established writer who died 30 years ago?
KWAB

[Anonymous No.22360615]

>>22360543
To be clear, I've got nothing against minorities receiving better representation. My problem is with an entire gender being thrown to the wayside. That said, the younger half of gen z & especially gen alpha are raised with significantly more distractions than previous generations which the adults around them are either unwilling or incapable of limiting. Reading rates are dropping among both genders, though boys in particular. The blame lies with the adults for not getting them into better habits from a young age imo.

>>22360550
Okay, so it's clear at this point that you're arguing about something you're uninformed about and have no desire to change that. I literally quoted a critically acclaimed and commercially successful crime novelist being told by a publisher that "we’re going to take a break from white, male novelists for a while." from one of the articles you refused to read, so yes, publishers are turning their backs on profitable writers over gender. There are agents and editors going on record saying as much. And who the hell am I to demoralize anyone? When I want to motivate men to write, I go to /wg/, but I'm not going to refuse to address the increasingly grim realities because you want to bury your head in the sand. The whole point of this topic was questioning what else can be done in the face of this issue.
>/pol/tard
Nice straw man. Have barely stepped in there over the years I've been here.

[Anonymous No.22360691]

>>22360359
Male authors need to adapt and change. in other words there are many small independant publishers or just self publish. Traditional publishing is dead, create social media profile and gather a following who will then buy your books and even advertise it for free.

[Anonymous No.22360693]

>>22360615
Simple fact remains that if you want to be published you need to rise above the competition, nothing has changed. This thread is just playing the victim and demoralizing people instead of helping them succeed. Only a /pol/tard would use the daily mail as a source, especially to open with and the links you posted to do not prove anything; a writer saying that is not proof of anything, why should I unquestioningly take his word as truth? especially when my own experience is contrary to that?

Anyways, time for work, got a big stack of notes from my editor to work through.

[Anonymous No.22360753]

>>22360569
This is actually a pretty realistic possibility, especially with the rise of anonymous forms of publishing that self-publishing offers. Women wrote under male pennames for centuries and now men are starting to write under female pennames in genres like romance. They may just end up eliminating gender from the equation entirely except for big-names. I don't see the rates going up as a result, though, kek.

>>22360693
Judging by your lack of reading comprehension and continuous boasting about being traditionally published, I'm sure I've had a similar discussion with you before. You keep harping on and on about dailymail like a broken record when I've provided other sources, and plenty of others are a google search away.
>why should I unquestioningly take his word as truth? especially when my own experience is contrary to that?
If you'd even bothered to read a single one of the articles you'd have seen agents and publishers saying similar things. And again, the world does not revolve around you. Just because you succeeded doesn't mean there aren't better, even more persistent writers who will die in obscurity. Conversely, there are worse writers that were able to publish with greater ease than you. Any writer pretending luck isn't a massive part of the process is kidding themselves. Yeah, I think we're done here.

[Anonymous No.22360756]

xenosystems fragments by Nick Land is the best thing I read this year and explains all of this. Progressivism is a branch of Calvinism and things will only get worse.
Find an alternative to publishing houses. Grow an audience of white males and self publish. Stop trying to pander to a religious movement destined to hate you. no reform is coming

[Anonymous No.22360762]

>>22360691
This.
Women complain about existing systems not working for them.
Men make new systems.

[Anonymous No.22360763]

>>22360615
>To be clear, I've got nothing against minorities receiving better representation. My problem is with an entire gender being thrown to the wayside.
You can't have equity without the strong being punished and the weak being rewarded. White and Male will never have a voice within the system again. Seek a new path and stop apologizing for people who want you dead, pussy

[Anonymous No.22360772]

>>22360359
Lmao look at his arms, this guys gotta be like 5'4" manlet levels

[Anonymous No.22360810]

>>22360405
> you're mom
>you are mom
Tfw he is a mom?

[Anonymous No.22360826]

>>22360762
>Your banking company has deemed your activites racist and antisemitic. They have notified other banks to make sure you can't do any business and that your psychopathic tendencies don't affect heckin POC's and the chosen people.
Actions have consequences.
Have a good day!

[Anonymous No.22360839]

>>22360810
Intentional misspelling is part of the joke, retard

[Anonymous No.22360842]

>>22360826
>chosen people
Shalom, unlikeable Mossad agent and thank you for your contribution of antisemitic psyop.

[Anonymous No.22360845]

>>22360839
Seems like YOUR the retard if thats the kind of jokes that make you laugh. Have a good day , sire.

[Anonymous No.22360855]

>>22360842
Your wlecom potential kanyewest

[Anonymous No.22360859]

>>22360474
>>22360691
>>22360756
I tried to fight it for years but, sadly, this seems to be the future and I’m increasingly resigned to the idea that there’s no stopping it. But I’ve begun to turn around my perspective a bit and had a conversation with a friend recently on how “literature” or, probably more accurate, the people who in a previous generation would have taken up “literature” as the primary form of expressing their ideas, do need to evolve and adapt to current mediums and that it’s not necessarily a bad thing, just a transitional time. In essence, where once people like Twain or even PT Barnum or whomever would have toured a lecture circuit from small town to small town, or even would have later done late night or daytime television interview shows to express themselves, must now turn to social media and podcasts and YouTube, etc., and that has replaced that old lecture circuit. Or the late 19th century Lyceum societies are now found in podcasts or the depths of the internet. The audiences have the potential to be far larger and more extensive. The cons being of course they’re less intimate and, while fame can come quicker and is more accessible than ever, it’s also far more fleeting there’s far more trash to sift through. Whereas when a Twain or someone came to town it was an event and that individual had to be ultra famous to sell tickets and fill a theater, now they can do so from their basement and, similarly, the audience can just swipe to the next one. Interesting times, but definitely difficult to navigate.

[Anonymous No.22360904]

>>22360370
>>22360469
>>22360478
>>22360543
>>22360859
These posts glow.
I wonder why the powers that be are so interested in stifling white males. Hmm...

[Anonymous No.22360910]

>>22360859
If you're into literature as a vehicle for fame or "ideas" then yes, it's well and truly over.

>>22360904
You can always crawl back to your hugbox, sweetie.

[Anonymous No.22360911]

>>22360569
I work at a low level of the industry. They've been doing this for at least a decade. A lot of known female authors produce utter slop that has to either be completely rewritten by a male editor or they're just a face used to sell books by males. I've heard from multiple sources that Ottessa Moshfegh is one such face.

[Anonymous No.22360913]

>>22360910
>You can always crawl back to your hugbox, sweetie.
I know that's what you want. You won't be getting it.

[Anonymous No.22360925]

>>22360904
What are you talking about? I’m a white male sifting through the muck and the mire trying to find more avenues to intellectual success. I actually recently looked into literary agencies and, without fail, nearly all of them are staffed almost entirely by women who not only almost entirely look the exact same but who highlight almost entirely the same type of submissions they’re interested in representing. Feel free to check it for yourself. I agree with another what another anon said, that that’s not entirely their fault as they’re in a business after all and if that’s what the market demands then they’re not wholly wrong in seeking to represent what presently sells. Still, it is indicative and representative of a general movement of young, white men away from the traditional literary pursuits. And sure, you can continue to bash your head into the wall and blind yourself by your own blood streaming down your face, or you can step back a moment and try to figure out a way around, under, or over that wall.

[Anonymous No.22360941]

>>22360543
shut up bitch

[Anonymous No.22360966]

>>22360925
Give up on publishing and make YouTube videos then. Don’t try to discourage your fellow white males from their chosen form of expression or you’re really only serving your neoliberal masters.

[Anonymous No.22360978]

Fiction has been gay and feminized since the '50s. You could still be kind of cool by imposing your masculinity on it anyway and blasting all womanish dissent out of your path, for example by having been born earlier in the century and not having gotten the memo that everyone is to become gay and female immediately, but also by having various forms of natural masculine egotism like autism.

But the guys who didn't get the memo still got poisoned by how gay and feminine literature was becoming, because they were typically individualists and "liberals by default" who simply didn't mind that they were writing in a feminized atmosphere as long as they could write their wacky postmodern pastiche books, or their insightful but increasingly decadent and merely "sentimental" confessional-experimental novels. And even the guys who are naturally domineering by dint of autism or high-functioning schizophrenia, after a generation or two, were still raised in entirely feminine atmospheres, reading feminine novels by half-female men.

Thus by the 90s everyone is fully gay and female. David Foster Wallace is a good example. He's still so autistic that he transcends the femininity and homosexuality of the atmosphere and imposes his will on it in a way a gay woman never could. There could never be a female David Foster Wallace. But he's still fairly gay and womany. All of his energies were spent analyzing his own emotions about his own emotions and his personal difficulties with his mom and thinking he's supposed to play house with Karen (Karen's abuse was her own fault - if she had let DFW manifest as a Kipling, she would have been a happy unabused housewife, but because she manifested as a liberated late 20th century woman, she forced DFW to manifest as a miserable abusive wreck perpetually confused that he can't find happiness with a woman, because men aren't supposed to derive happiness from women). And for every DFW you have a bunch of little goblinoid Franzens running around his feet like pygmies being even gayer and more female. Then another 10 years goes by and now you have gay women literally talking about Ben Lerner as if Ben Lerner exists.

To talk about the decline of the novel let alone male novelists in 2023 is like talking about the decline of the Roman Empire in AD 1500. If you want to fix literature don't try dialing back to when we were only Franzen levels of gay (terminal dystopian hypergay), dial back to before the rot set in, before the 1950s when society was completely unmoored from any priorities other than being gay and a woman. The final solution to Ben Lerner is Rudyard Kipling and Bulwer Lytton, people with raisons d'etre, not Don DeLillo.

Also physiognomy is downstream from spirit, that's why every male novelist converges on the same brown hair glasses harmless "I'm gay and harmless" soft sensitive deep or parted lips pensive gay sweater babyface look, it's a very Jew mind + WASP masculinity tropes hybrid type face.

[Anonymous No.22360983]

>>22360826
Always crypto.
And more and more stores are accepting it. Or at least allowing you to buy gift cards with it.

Keep your sheckles, Schlomo.

[Anonymous No.22361012]

>>22360925
I agree with your comment however we need to look deeper.
>it is indicative and representative of a general movement of young, white men away from the traditional literary pursuits.
Why are young white men turning away from literary pursuits?
The new and current generation white male authors do not have foundation, do not have role models, times have changed and instead of writing what young white male reader would read they instead either write stuff in really shitty modern style taking inspiration from really old antiquity, medieval, even 19th century authors and ideas (which they don't really understand themselves, only have suface level understanding of them at best) or they write post modern garbage based on ideas that their single mothers and liberal society/media/education has inflicted on them.
I open any modern book today written by a current generation author and all I see is pozzed shit! People (even characters that may be old or non lib) who talk, whos manner of speech are of some 2023 homosexual from NYC, I very rarely see ideas, events and characters of greatness and epicness from society and civilisation and culture that can only be build by men portrayed in modern books and that is because the authors themselves don't know them and only know to write garbage.

[Anonymous No.22361014]

>>22360978
>epic culture warrior guy cries about literally everything except literature
You guys are all the same as well.

[Anonymous No.22361020]

>>22360474
Jonathan Franzen's Crossroads (2021) sold more than three million copies

https://www.esquire.com/uk/culture/books/a37848083/jonathan-franzen-crossroads-review/

[Anonymous No.22361029]

>>22360910
What do you propose is the way ideas are communicated now compared to literature before.

[Anonymous No.22361030]

>>22361012
>single mothers
>pozzed
>epicness
Yeah, you sure sound like someone who knows what they're talking about.

[Anonymous No.22361034]

>>22361012
>Why are young white men turning away from literary pursuits?
Because they're barely allowed to exist at all in publishing. A small but existing part of that problem is people like >>22360925 who accept and reify the status quo.

[Anonymous No.22361046]

>>22361012
>what young white male reader would read

And what exactly is this, my brown friend? What is the "young white male reader" thirsting to read, which is also refused by the literary establishment? You should be able to give a clear answer, since you're (apparently) speaking for them...

[Anonymous No.22361056]

>>22361030
Pozzed. Pozzed shit everywhere. Your comment is also pozzed, we need to eradicate all pozzed garbage so the world can become a better place.

[Anonymous No.22361058]

>>22361020
How to explain this contradiction away so that literature can still be assumed dead?

[Anonymous No.22361061]

>>22361020
Amazing. MrBeasts' latest video has collected 95 million views in less than a week. Latest music video from Ice Spice has 60 mil in a month.
3 million copies sounds like a lot for academia's equivalent of hype beast, but how many people actually read it? Where is the discussion? Franzen apparently isn't even relevant enough culturally to warrant his own subreddit. 3 million unread tomes collecting dust.

[Anonymous No.22361077]

>>22361046
Using my brown privilege I will only say that it's not the goy slop that you and people like you keep promoting.

[Anonymous No.22361083]

>>22360904
>The CIA is running a psyop on /lit/ to discourage heterosexual males on 4chan from attempting to become novelists
That makes 100 cents.

[Anonymous No.22361113]

It's over for now. Maybe in the future things will swing back the other way, but until then white male novelists will have to band together and create a new literary scene. A literary scene that excludes those who exclude us.

[Anonymous No.22361152]

>>22360474
The real question is whether or not literature can do things (important things, things people want) that other artistic mediums cannot. And I believe it can.

Take Submission by Michel Houellebecq. This is a genuinely important and interesting work because it uses a fictional story to talk about the moral insanity of political elites in France and the West, the demographic displacement of European peoples, and the inhumanity of our current cultural practices. Sure you could state these things matter of factly in an essay. But these ideas become richer, more significant, and more powerful when conveyed dramatically in the medium of a novel.

Also we want to understand ourselves and our experiences. We want to enter into (and sympathize with) other human lives. We want to experience vicariously all the pleasures and pains of the lived experience of others. Is there really a better medium for doing this than fiction? Some might say film or theatre or poetry. Sure. But each medium has its strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't mean that fiction is dead.

I think that in many respects certain elements of our culture are exhausted. And there are very few writers that are willing (like Houellebecq) to talk about the reality of where we are. In other words, there are few writers that dare to be really and truly interesting. Most writers merely strive to be entertaining. They are not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.22361158]

>>22361113
lmaoing at the thought of wignat literary journals reviewing wignat literature

[Anonymous No.22361184]

>imagine a scenario
>get mad at your imagined scenario
Chances are you haven’t even written a book, and even if you have, chances are that nobody has or will ever read it. Made up daily mail articles are not the thing holding you back from being a successful author.

[Anonymous No.22361205]

>>22361184
True, it's the publishing industry dominated by obviously partisan white women and bipocs.
Let's not pretend these fat middle aged thick rimmed lgbt supporting childless former whores like le patriarchs very much.

[Anonymous No.22361232]

>>22361113
You propose Exit

This is neoreactionary 101, which you reject because a Jew suggested it

[Anonymous No.22361241]

>>22360543
Dropped it after the first sentence. Gotta be more subtle.

[Anonymous No.22361275]

We as non faggot, non shitskin, non libtarded men, have it so hard in todays world. It is simply impossible to get published or be an author, as a consequence of the jewish zionist communist leftist lizardman LGBTBBQTVIA++£€¥&@!?? lobby. At this point, I am thinking about just giving up entirely. It’s over.

[Anonymous No.22361341]

>>22360763
A bit dramatic, mate, but you're not wrong about men needing to seek a new path. It's part of what caused the explosion of stuff like LitRPG and Royal Road in recent years. Discussing ways male authors could pivot was my original intention before the topic devolved into whether it was even an issue at all.

>>22360772
I don't know how tall he is, but he seems at least average height.

>>22361184
>Have a completed book
>A number of betas have read it and liked it
>Many other male authors and to lesser extent even female authors wanting to write male protagonists have hit the same wall, hence article after article about it
Thanks for making a bunch of completely wrong assumptions, though. And Jesus Christ a few of you(assuming this isn't the same guy) have really just latched onto the daily mail bit, haven't you? Let's just conveniently ignore the number of articles from more reputable sources/discussions from people in the industry available on the topic.

[Anonymous No.22361344]

>>22361341
>A bit dramatic, mate, but
kill yourself passive aggressive anglonigger

[Anonymous No.22361360]

>>22360469
>businesses are just responding to market forces
>its not like they would try to artificially skew the market for idealogical or propaganda reasons
>i mean who would do that?
>who would try to effect public discourse and thought by controlling popular story telling?

[Anonymous No.22361366]

>>22361344
Uh, okay...

[Anonymous No.22361380]

>>22361341
>It's part of what caused the explosion of stuff like LitRPG and Royal Road in recent years.
Too bad most if not all litrpg is coomer trash and royalroad is owned by israeli woman.
white men trying to distance themselves from degeneracy only managed move even closer to it.

[Anonymous No.22362381]

>>22360359
Art should be created for art's own sake, without the expectation or the desire to be paid for it. When you sell it, it becomes worthless. All professional writers are whores.

[Anonymous No.22362397]

>>22360359
Do any of you know of any publishers who consider works like Harassment Architecture and all that? I haven't found a single one who would so much as even consider a supposed "alt-right" text, let alone publish one. The few "conservative" publishers are only interested in lame left-vs-right political commentary works.

[Anonymous No.22362399]

>>22361232
you can't "exit" if you were never in to begin with.

If you try to get published now, you have to pass their political litmus test and fill your novel with gay, black, trans, mentally disabled characters who talk about smashing the patriarchy, rape culture, and dumb, anti-white bullshit rhetoric. If you don't put these things in your book, you don't get published. So what's your choice? Play their dumb games and disguise yourself as an antifa clown, or start your own non-gay literary scene?

[Anonymous No.22362417]

>>22360359
Men need to make lit video games.

[Anonymous No.22362448]

[Anonymous No.22362575]

I wrote up my thoughts on the matter but it got flagged as spam. So here you go.Basically we need more drama, because that's what gets in the newspapers, which is what drives public attention. Any literary movement in history has been 90% circlejerk, and if we aren't causing eachother to chaff we're probably doing something wrong.

[Anonymous No.22362594]

>>22360543
Honestly if women want to talk on this board they should be required to post themselves naked with their favorite books covering their tits and pussy.

[Anonymous No.22362618]

Men write books like 1984, the goym don't need to be reading any of this stuff so it is in their best interests to only be reading stuff which women write.

[Anonymous No.22362627]

>>22362618
>writes handmaiden tale
Psht nothing personal scrotes

[Anonymous No.22362634]

>>22360359
Do you faggots do nothing else but whine and cry? You are exactly like the niggers and women you hate crying victim hood

[Anonymous No.22362673]

>>22362575
I've been saying similar things for a while. We could very easily form a literary movement of our own, but anons are either too busy trying to cheat each other (I've heard bad things about the &amp guys stealing IP in the past and shit), too busy trying to tear one another down (read any critique thread; see what they did to Unreal Press with the doxxing), or are generally too naive to be able to contribute anything of significance yet. I've been in something like 60 magazines for everything from poetry to articles, and I'd happily help anons edit their stuff or form a collective, but I just don't see it happening any time soon. Hell, I'd even consult editors on here if we have a list of ones you could pay for consultations on specific projects.

[Anonymous No.22362674]

>>22360359
this guy gets so much young pussy its unbelievable

[Anonymous No.22362683]

>>22362575
anyone serious about this should read the first 100 pages of avant-garde florence by adamson, it's basically a DIY recipe for how to create fascist literary movements by creating journals and getting the right autistic people together

the real problem in my opinion is a lack of serious talent and the huge number of drama whore streamer faggots who just want social media paypigs and an "audience." late 19th / early 20th century feuilleton culture was way better than this shit, it channeled the egotism of autists better.

[Anonymous No.22362928]

>>22362673
I don't see it so much as an issue of a lack of projects or talent, there have been a number of journals, collaborative projects, and talented posters on this website. What I see as the issue, not only on /lit/ but with modern literature in general, is a lack of integration with the Simulacra of society at large. It's relatively easy to create OC, or to reach out to other parties here and adjacent to here and start a correspondence. To have interesting conversations, bounce ideas off each other, and engage in creative endeavors isn't the problem. The active creation of culture is actually fairly straightforward. The issue as I see it is the PASSIVE CONSUMPTION of literature as a medium; which isn't to speak of reading books necessarily, but the broadcasting of a "literary community" through vectors of mass media to an audience which isn't actively involved in the creative process but is influenced by the trends and ideas which are invented as a result of that process. It's not the exertion of any single creative talent, but the momentum of this large, formless mass which drives history. This is where I disagree with >>22362683. That "huge number of drama whore streamer faggots who just want social media paypigs and an audience" which is exactly what drove European literary movements to influence. D'Annunzio wasn't only a great poet/novelist, he was a notorious public figure who was involved in politics, had affairs with the most famous starlets of his era, and constantly promoted himself to the point of clownishness. The people he hung around weren't much better either. F.T. Marinetti was a great novelist, sure, but he's known (then and today) for his explosive manifestos and self-promotion. That he wrote Mafarka is altogether less relevant than the fact that he was dragged into a (well publicized) obscenity trial over it's release. Harukichi Shimoi was an altogether mediocre author, a second rate journalist at best, but the facts of who he was as a person (Japanese, Samurai, Fascist Spy, Arditi) create a halo of intrigue around him and his work.

All this is to say that I don't see doxing as an issue, but a fact that has to be overcome. Without a flesh and blood physicality, what hope does any nascent literary movement have? I'm reminded of an anecdote about Joseph Stalin: he was caught participating in communist activities during his studies at seminary school and expelled, rather than go quietly into a life of politics, he publicly released the names of all of his co-conspirators as well which resulted in their expulsion. This created a momentum of communist sympathizers without means to a bourgeoisie existence, a sense of urgency and public scandal, which helped to launch their careers as Bolsheviks.

[Anonymous No.22362946]

>>22362928
The question that I find myself asking is this: what are the vectors of culture, be they media, academia, or even just browsing wikipedia articles, that create the hyperreality which we currently live in? How can we seize these means of cultural production?

Its a bit like Julius Evola's analogy of riding the tiger. There is this great beast of popular culture, and it's directed simultaneously by multiple power interests yet it manages to form a semi-homogeneous whole. Even where there are schisms, people find themselves a part of a clearly definable dialectic. People in the West-Anglo-European sphere care very much about some topics, while schisms of different civilizations and epochs (iconography for example) no longer hold much meaning to the Western mind. Lots of so-called public "intellectuals" have easily made a name for themselves as commentators aligned with one or another political party, which is inconsequential in the big picture of things. If we want to truly call ourselves "artists", with any real sense of the word, we need to figure out how to shape the dialectical issues themselves, rather than being consumed by one or another "team". This requires being both a part of the cultural sphere while also standing outside of it. It requires engagement with the modern cultural apparatus, while also building parallel institutions. But above all, it requires boldness, and a willingness to stroke controversy.

[Anonymous No.22362967]

>>22360474
Your post reads like a fucking demoralization incel tyraid from /r9k)
Whether it’s true or not doesn’t even matter in the absolute sense as nation after nation in the first world and the digital era falls back into feudalism and technological regression (se Venezuela, Sri Lanka Lebanon ect)
The modernity you worship as God is quickly failing
And every natural force amoung the ruins from story telling to Christianity to fucking iron working will be given primacy over everything you hold deer and have come to reveer
And to be clear this isn’t a prophecy of what’s to come
It’s a basic unbiased description of what is manifest around you

[Anonymous No.22362971]

>>22362683
I remember you recommended Avant-garde Florence in another thread. I regrettably haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Would you mind posting a breakdown of how you think these movements should be done?

While I agree that the older literary culture was better, I don't think we should completely discount modern media technology. Audio-visual in particular, is a more immersive form of disseminating ideas than literature. Youtubers posting video essays can easily have a reach of millions of people. Film can add a human element to public personas which is crystalized in time: take Foucault v Chomsky, Vidal v Buckley, or Zizek v Peterson. I agree that streaming is a poor medium, since it lacks the superhuman cultivation of self by turning it into an instantaneous and continuous spectacle that reduces public personas into parodies of themselves, put the cult of personality seems to have a greater effect overall than any particular work of art. The story of Dante and Beatrice looms larger than Dante's Inferno does, to all but a few dedicated readers. Nietzsche and the Horse is better known than Crime and Punishment, and Crime and Punishment as an idea is bigger than Crime and Punishment as a novel. Anyone in the English speaking world instinctively knows the story of Hamlet, but most people lack the vocabulary to appreciate the play Hamlet. In mass culture the Thing tends to take on larger proportions than the Thing-In-Itself, and for better or worse, I think we need to embrace this reality.

[Anonymous No.22362986]

>>22360911
>.t works the mail room at penguin publishingM8204P

[Anonymous No.22362998]

>>22360469
There is some truth to this but I would counter that the demand is artificial and manufactured rather than an organic shift in the market. People aren't begging for this crap, it's being shoved down their throats and a few of the goodest goys are lapping it up happily.

[Anonymous No.22363003]

>>22362928
I admire your perspective on this, and it's clear that you're passionate about making something happen. With these things, it always seems to be a matter of getting the ball rolling. Only after people see that something is "safe" or popular will they join. I run several writers' groups, one of which has about 700 members, but I haven't had more than a few people come through who actually yearn for anything beyond publishing a YA book or getting into a magazine or two. I thought I could establish something small and draw interesting people in, but so far, it's been a bit of a bust. I'd be interested in starting correspondences with anons like you through here, though. I'd recommend Discord, but I hear the Discord for /lit/ is a complete shitshow.

[Anonymous No.22363009]

>>22360359
Ehem.
Yes, white heterosexual males are actively being gatekeeped out of every major institution, business and activity.
The mafia will gaslight you and first tell you is not happening, then they will tell you that is happening but is a good thing because "social justice" and finally will tell you that "yes fuck you and what are you gonna do about it".
The best way you can do is to create a small society with other like minded white males and start a business alternative by yourself. This will only get worse.
The good side is that the corporations that are forcing whites out are having problems in selling their low quality products to customers.
The bad side is that they are mass producing low quality low iq consumers for said products.

[Anonymous No.22363026]

>>22362967
Wow man you believe in grand things n shiet damn wish I had a cosmic brain like yours, alas I'm just a peasant bound to live in real life, I'll never ascend to peaks of schizophrenia to cope with anything.

[[e-mail] No.22363052]

>>22363003
Email is in the name field. I think we might have talked a few years ago. I'll be offline for the most of the next week but shoot me a message it's always fun to discuss these topics. I'm curious to hear about your perspective running a writers group, it sounds like an interesting experience. Any trends you've picked up on?

[Anonymous No.22363073]

>>22363052
You're right. I totally remember you. I just checked my email now, and it looks like the follow-up message I tried to send you back then never left my drafts. I'll shoot you a new email in the next little bit. Cheers.

[Anonymous No.22363074]

Make a comics with stable diffusion retards. This is a good thing now you won't need to write as much. Think of it as a return to the medieval ages

[Anonymous No.22363076]

>>22360543
>Minorities of all sorts have been forced to read white men for centuries
obvious bait but some retards i'm sure actually believe this. Plenty of white men have been going gaga for indian and asian literature for centuries, and then retards decry this as "orientalism," Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Anonymous No.22363081]

>>22360359
Just pretend to be gay.

[Anonymous No.22363082]

You guys are for pol faggotry what are you going to write anyways?Some opposite day book to the other side of the aisle political faggotry.
That's not what people want to read. They want to read about a neofeudalist dystopia where people eat bugs and live in pods and shit.
Atleast that's what I want to read. Not you're stupid we still matter waaah book.

[Anonymous No.22363093]

>>22363082
I wanna write about people and their relationships

[Anonymous No.22363104]

>>22363093
That's probably a dime a dozen and can be done better by women desu.
A male writer is supposed to be a what if machine in my opinion. Women are not as good at that.

[Anonymous No.22363106]

>>22363104
What if I put these nuts in your mouth

[Anonymous No.22363135]

>>22363082
>You guys are for pol faggotry what are you going to write anyways?
anything and everything that's not about LGBTQ bullshit.

[Anonymous No.22363165]

>all these pseuds itt who have never gotten a publishing contract but are bemoaning LE DEATH of SERIOUS LITERATURE
If you are an actual writer this kinda shit is smoke and mirrors. This only phases you if you are a "dark academia" faggot who wants to larp as Ernest Hemingway or some shit.

[Anonymous No.22363170]

>>22363135
This is some My Immortal sounding shit.

[Anonymous No.22363175]

>>22363170
I think it's from The Witcher.

[Anonymous No.22363274]

>>22363135
>put all my queer trauma into every single thing that I write
>the other character is "a little afraid but a lot impressed"

Not only is this retard unable to maintain a consistent tone without getting "quippy," he's just adding his self-insert power fantasies to a show with a >$176mil budget. Fuck.

[Anonymous No.22363555]

>identify gap in market
>develop product to fill gap
>????
>profit
Setting up as a publisher isn't hard. Get some venture capital together. Hire a good sales guy to talk to the book stores and review outlets
Hire a few lit grads to read the submissions.
Find those writers and those readers the market is missing.
I expect to see one of you profiled as the latest success story within two years

[Anonymous No.22363564]

>>22363555
>Hire a few lit grads to read the submissions.
back to square one

[Anonymous No.22363570]

Just try the George Elliot approach.

[Anonymous No.22363574]

>>22363564
Lol. Read them yourself then. But what exactly is the pitch? Right wing straight male writers wanted?

[Anonymous No.22363598]

>>22363574
gamer literature

[Anonymous No.22363627]

>>22360359
Women still love men. Just own it and don't be cringe about it.

[Anonymous No.22363916]

>>22360978
>Bulwer Lytton
Nice work, you almost got me until here

[Anonymous No.22363922]

>>22363916
he's actually pretty cool

[Anonymous No.22363925]

Publishing functions a lot like academia. If you get the right names and accolades on your resume, you can get picked up by the biggest names in the industry. But if you don’t, you get sidelined. So if you can’t get those prestige points and you’re a white male, then yeah, it’s over. Head for Substack or RoyalRoad or I don’t know whatever your preferred thing is (I don’t know anything about online publishing).

[Anonymous No.22363926]

My white bros suffer even in their homeland

I'm sad for my bros. I have never seen a rude white person in my 3rd world country, tourists are extra nice but still.

[Anonymous No.22363953]

>>22363926
We're not doing well, please help

[Anonymous No.22363955]

>>22360925
I bet they all look like my librarian sister, who is a cunt.

[Anonymous No.22364039]

>>22360359
it always has been. The amount of men that write novels >>>>>>> the amount of male novelists published and it has always been that way. Luckily there is self promotion and publishing.

[Anonymous No.22364042]

>>22363574
>>22363598
powerfantasy, must not have any minorities (except maybe few asians), must not have any coomer shit.
also scifi, military/space opera/action adventure, must not have any minorities and no coomer shit.

[Anonymous No.22364066]

>>22363926
Slavs aren't white nikolajczyzcyczakivicikcuk

[Anonymous No.22364071]

>>22360451
Fucking anglos and their race shit. They can't even form a normal sentence without grouping people into artifical sections.

[Anonymous No.22364076]

>>22360478
>Only 16% were LGBT
lmfao. Solid bait.

[Anonymous No.22364106]

>>22361158
Why?

[Anonymous No.22364185]

>>22361232
exit is autonomismo 101, which you reject because commies suggested it

[Anonymous No.22364611]

>>22360359
I have a friend who is a published author. He mostly writes Crime thrillers, Sci-fi, and Horror. He stopped trying to get published using his real name many years ago and started using a female pen name because he couldn't have unsavory female characters or have bad things happen to female characters without publishers throwing a hissy fit. He told me that when used a female pen-name and submitted the exact same material to publishers, they didn't get on his case at all about any of the sex and violence in his books.

[Anonymous No.22364713]

>>22360845
It's not a laughing kind of joke, it's the kind that you stare at blankly or at most exhale sharply through your nose. Fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.22364719]

>>22364611
'Philip Roth' was actually a front for a gentile author venting on kikes.

[Anonymous No.22364740]

>>22360359
>screen writing
hey if there is still opportunity there doesn't sound too bad

[Anonymous No.22364814]

>>22361061
youtube or whoever paid them, very nice for them
i imagine all of that money fabricated out of nowhere by a computer into the hands of (((record companies))) then immediately went into a computerized bank account
one those record companies undoubtedly have a direct stake in if they're directly injecting it with freshly printed cash
or perhaps through youtube, which is yet another virtual golden calf that simply provides you with receipts of receipts if you appease them
i am sure this beast guy is spending his money wisely and putting it into investments
i'm certain that money is real as well and not just a fabricated number fabricated through imaginary money printed by people who fabricate their entire business model propped up by yet another (((group))) who fabricates authority over the fabricated receipts
all of this is vastly superior to having some insightful thoughts and writing them onto paper

[Anonymous No.22364846]

>>22360359
>Male writers are aiming for video game writing/screen writing instead.
True. Let the chicks have fun with novel writing, I'm making KINO insteadd. Joyce finished literature anyway, not like there's much room for improvement. All praised modern novels are a riff on Joyce (if they are literary) or forgettable realist shit (if they are identity politics slop).

[Anonymous No.22365165]

This is how I view the problem.

In this corner: white boys who feel shut out of traditional publishing routes (and thus the mainstream) want a literature that treats them as outsiders, in the sense that was previously afforded Jews, women and various other minorities (most recently the LGBT people). In today's cultural and political climate, many white boys view themselves this way -- some permanently, owing to the irreversible and multiple collapses of societal structures, the climate and ethnic white boy pops in the West; some only temporarily, until they can seize back power and right all the wrongs. In any case, everyone knows that this POV -- regardless of who wields it -- is the only way to write real, lasting literature. Currently, these white boys have produced no such thing whatsoever.

In that corner: the disenchanted mainstream of late literature, beset with centuries of critical studies and a stifling political correctness that is just as bad as whatever the current insiders once were fighting against during the '50s or Reagan or whatever. This crowd refuses to grant white boys outsiderdom, the usual reasons being that white boys' forefathers wrote all the white boy literature we need, and/or that white boys are reaping various benefits that are still denied others. Having never quite shed their own outsiderdom and openly declared themselves insiders, they also hold a total mandate on the cool and correct way to conduct an underground, which is why the white boy equivalent is a self-publishing shitshow in everyone's eyes. Again, the white boys haven't done much to dispel this notion.

Is there a way forward? At some point, the insiders must yield and declare this white boy worldview valid. Demographic changes alone are proving the latter right. Their existential concerns are excellent kindling for genuine literature, and everyone knows it. This is why even tepid proto-white boys like Houellebecq are the only remaining authors of fiction to rattle the bourgeoisie and cause old-school sensation. They all love it.

The white boys must in turn get over their juvenile fear/blanket rejections of vulnerability, networking, academia and so on and engage with the world outside of image boards and chat servers. The way they're currently going about things is all a bit gay and retarded. Their final victory must be of the artistic kind -- the only true benefit, not just an n-word pass.

[Anonymous No.22365200]

>>22365165
>white boys ... want a literature that treats them as outsiders
what in the name of fuck are you talking about

[Anonymous No.22365208]

>>22364611
Too bad for your male friend pretending to be a female because I don't read anything written by females.

[Anonymous No.22365244]

F Gardner writes shit like this and his books are constantly discussed here. So no it’s obviously not over for white guys

[Anonymous No.22365256]

>>22365244
Gardner is just a meme, I post about gardner all the time to meme. I have only read small picture excerpts that other anons posted

[Anonymous No.22365268]

>>22365256
Meme or not F Gardner still gets an insane amount of attention from this site from his schizo book series. Fun fact there are apparently now 16 fucking F Gardner books somehow. He literally just doesn’t stop pumping these out. He is like a one man publishing house.

[Anonymous No.22365278]

>>22365244
F Gardner is discussed here because he bought tons of ads. He is unknown elsewhere, he's even more of a nobody than the other "politically incorrect" young, white, male authors, who at least were able to attract attention outside of 4chan. Also that excerpt is sophomoric trash. If you think that's good writing, then there's no saving you.

[Anonymous No.22365302]

>>22365278
Gardner lives in a penthouse in Chicago. Plus everyone he knows Call of the Crocodile. That is fame. Even if you don’t like his work.

[Anonymous No.22365313]

>>22365244
>>22365256
>>22365268
>>22365278
>>22365302
either samefag or discord retards talking to eachother

[Anonymous No.22365316]

>>22365302
*everyone here

[Anonymous No.22365336]

>>22365302
>everyone here knows Call of the Crocodile. That is fame
/lit/ is like a few thousand people at most. And even if the penthouse thing is true, there's no way he's selling enough $1 e-books to be able to afford it

[Anonymous No.22365347]

>>22365336
F Gardner got to the front page of Reddit before. Normies have been aware for a while. CotC isn’t just this board’s little secret like it was a few years ago anymore.

[Anonymous No.22365362]

>>22365302
This. Call of the Crocodile is one of the only books from the past decade I can even think of.

[Anonymous No.22365386]

>>22365362
That says more about (You) than contemporary literature.

[Anonymous No.22365442]

>>22365347
>F Gardner got to the front page of Reddit before
Prove it

[Anonymous No.22365459]

>>22365442

It apparently happened a couple of times now

https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/usymhq/goodreads_takes_down_thousands_of_fake_5_star/

https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/uqq77c/most_blatant_example_of_fake_positive_reviews_ive/

[Anonymous No.22365540]

>>22365459
lol dude come on

[Anonymous No.22365682]

Every great novelist of the 19th century would be writing prestige tv for HBO today

[Anonymous No.22365711]

>>22365244
>F Gardner writes shit like this and his books are constantly discussed here
it's honest to god just him astroturfing

[Anonymous No.22365731]

>>22365244
He's our very own Tommy Wiseau

[Anonymous No.22365767]

>>22365682
Correct. Real heads know that big boy fiction started with Joyce.

[Anonymous No.22365783]

>>22360469
>they don't care who the author is just if they can sell them.
That's false. They care most who the author is, their identity, whether personal or ethnic or whatever, is paramount to any big publisher that wishes to remain upright by the western regime's standards.

[Anonymous No.22365787]

>>22365711
What a cope. Those Reddit links have thousands of comments

[Anonymous No.22365848]

>>22365244
Is this his real writing or a parody?

[Anonymous No.22365904]

>>22365848
Real. Horror’s Call is genuinely nuts

[Anonymous No.22366154]

>>22360359
It's not about being white or non-white. It's about writing oversocialized shit about "marginalized minorities" and normalizing sexual deviancy. This affects non-whites also getting a literary agent. They are the gatekeepers.
So non-whites who aren't interested in writing anti-white stuff are negatively impacted too.

[Anonymous No.22366185]

>>22360359
I have read 34 books so far this year, as well as my very first book written by a woman (an introduction to the Orthodox church culture). I don’t filter women intentionally; they just don’t tend to write anything of value.

[Anonymous No.22366309]

>>22365787
that must cost literally tens of dollars on fiverr.
>t. former NFT dev

[Anonymous No.22366430]

>>22365787
Are you stupid? Most of them are about how he sucks and pays for fake reviews

[Anonymous No.22366557]

>>22361152
I prefer literature as a medium but for the average person, film, TV even fucking podcasts (vomit) are more engaging and impactful to them. It's a sad state we are in.

[Anonymous No.22366717]

>>22366309
They’re mostly thousands of accounts criticizing Gardner

[Anonymous No.22367412]

No. But feel free to go ahead and post the brandon slamderson hit piece or whatever where we're supposed to all rile ourselves up and hate him because of his gender & religion.

I'll find some time in my day to ignore it and not jump on the hate train I guess while writers keep thinking up reasons on why they need to jet to my fucking city while protesting climate change; as if they've written the next groundbreaking work.

[Anonymous No.22367636]

>>22362673
>I've heard bad things about the &amp guys stealing IP in the past
Oh fuck off! Talk about trying to "cheat each other" you little crabs in a bucket asshole. &amp is fantastic and all little losers like you can do is try to bring it down.

[Anonymous No.22367656]

>>22362967
absolute doomer cope. people like you are terrified you can't hack it so you just do nothing while seething and crying that the world is going to end and your lack of inaction will be vindicated. newsflash: even if you were right do nothing retards like you will still be on the bottom of the food chain.

[Anonymous No.22367685]

>>22360359
Good. I hope thia drives more white men to suicide, which will lead to less taxes for ZOG, which will lead to widespread collapse and total amerigroid death.
The path to TND is through TWmaleD

[Anonymous No.22367689]

>>22363003
discord is completely compromised. admins can and have in the past doxxed and leaked private chats and groups. the user base is 90% pozzed as well, get off it. use telegram if you must it is far more neutrally run as a platform.

[Anonymous No.22367841]

Wait.

Are you guys just writing books for the sake of it ? Not to get a foot into the creative industry of tv, movies and games ?

So you purposefully choose a dying media, that no one reads, not especially your own kind, and feel sad about it ?
>mfw when no one rides their horses anymore
That’s how you sound.

Look at this :
https://www.thegamer.com/disco-elysium-novel-sacred-and-terrible-air/
>makes an acclaimed book
>sells around 1000 of those
>become alcoholic
>make game about book and alcoholism
>sells around millions of those
>now translates the book in English for nerds

That is the textbook of what y’all should be doing, if you were actually interesting of making impactful stories. Feel like y’all just want to be called literary persons, instead of having people interact with what you wrote. To each their own.

[Anonymous No.22367930]

>>22367841
This is the literature board, not the "making it big in popular entertainment" board.

[Anonymous No.22367940]

>>22360359
I suggest to write poetry under a pseudonym or create mature graphic novels (specially if you want to write fiction slop). Prose reached its peak last century.

[Anonymous No.22368199]

>>22367841
Writing novels is a terrible way to take a step into other industries. Write a screenplay.

[Anonymous No.22368250]

>>22368199
There's way more demand for filmable novels than spec scripts.

[Anonymous No.22368357]

>>22368250
>There's way more demand for filmable novels
Only from established authors with a fanbase.

[Anonymous No.22369080]

>>22360543
>Minorities of all sorts have been forced to read white men for centuries

that's their problem, too dumb to have their own literature canon

[Anonymous No.22369155]

>>22369080
Yet here we are.

[Anonymous No.22369164]

>>22369155

[Anonymous No.22369500]

>>22360543
>Minorities of all sorts have been forced to read white men for centuries
They made the choice to move to a white country lol, they can go back if they don't like it, or write their own books.

[Anonymous No.22369506]

>>22369155
Imagine going to another country and crying because your hosts aren't giving you everything little thing you ask for. What if a white person went to China and started complaining that all the books are about chinese people? you're an idiot. You should be grateful that white people even let your stupid immigrant family in, it's probably the best thing that's ever happened to them.

[Anonymous No.22369519]

>>22369164
based Jeremy

[Anonymous No.22369535]

>>22369500
>>22369506
You will be replaced, chuds.

[Anonymous No.22369569]

>>22369164
You're Reddit.

>>22369506
Given the braindead replies to my original post I probably should've worded it differently. Switch out "minorities" with "everyone who isn't a straight white man".

[Anonymous No.22369652]

>>22365459
lmfaooooooo i didn't know he got so publically aired for his shilling

[Anonymous No.22370121]

>>22367841
If this isn’t bait, you’re a soulless faggot. I bet you’re one of those novelists who don’t read novels, part of the reason why contemporary literature is in such a sorry state. If your goal is to make money writing genre fiction slop for TV and video games, go write scripts (and get off of the literature board, you bug).

t. a guy who writes poetry, a medium that’s been commercially dead longer than the novel

[Anonymous No.22370144]

>>22360359
>female pen name
Congrats you are now "Elene Ferranti"

[Anonymous No.22370173]

>>22369535
You're just admitting that White nationalists are correct, you don't even have an argument.

[Anonymous No.22370190]

>>22369569
Wrong, there were plenty of tales about females and plenty of female authors. There were stories about all kinds of people, you're just stereotyping/being prejudiced.

Sorry people 200 years ago didn't care about non-binary genderqueer trans perspectives (nobody cares today either, they just say it so you don't throw a public tantrum)

[Anonymous No.22370208]

>>22360359
Nope.
Git Gud.

[Anonymous No.22370581]

>>22360359
They can just say they identify as a woman, problem solved.

[Anonymous No.22371156]

>>22367841
Behold the inevitable result of the demise of European cilvization.

[Anonymous No.22371160]

>>22360543
Minorities? What are you a Choctaw law giver? There are few non-whites in the west who are Minorities.

[Anonymous No.22371173]

>>22369500
>>22369535
Its so odd hearing non-whites complain all the time about difficulties dating and mating in the west. "I can't get a gf because I'm *ethnic whatever*!" They can just go to one of the numerous other nations consisting of several hundred million to billion or their peers and the problem is solved.

They never seem to make that leap.

[Anonymous No.22371207]

>>22360359
Literally use a pen name. There's no downsides for you or the publisher. Not actually trans jamaican slay queen? Pull a Pynchon. Pull a Salinger. Who gives a fuck.

[Anonymous No.22371842]

>>22371207
Doesn't really work in an era when authors are expected to whore themselves out 24/7 on social media, podcasts, zoom calls, readings, etc.

[Anonymous No.22371861]

It's probably because men are told reading is gay and unmanly. Even the likes of Andrew Tate promotes illiteracy among men.

[Anonymous No.22371865]

>>22371842
Elena Ferrante doesn't do any of those things

[Anonymous No.22371883]

>>22360405
KEK

[Anonymous No.22371893]

[Anonymous No.22371935]

>>22371865
The most well-known thing about Elena Ferrante is that Elena Ferrante is a pseudonym, which sort of makes the whole thing pointless. It's not a pen name case in the traditional sense, since it's part of the marketing strategy. And this luxury of being a Ferrante or a Pynchon is only granted if you're a major talent *and* lucky enough to slip in at the precise moment a spot opens up. If there were any more of them their "anti-image" would mean nothing, which perhaps would be healthy for literature overall but it's not what publishers want. So if you aiming to be this era's token mystery author then that's gonna be way more hard work than just attempting to publish as yourself.

[Anonymous No.22371983]

>tfw straight, white male but have foreign name so I slip under the net
Also certifiably retarded just in case the name doesn't take me over the line. I can't stop winning.

[Anonymous No.22372038]

>>22371983
>tfw straight, white male with Anglo name but it doesn't matter because the issue is there are very few straight white male writers worth publishing, not that talented white males are being discriminated against in favor of less talented minorities

[Anonymous No.22372079]

>>22360359
Because fiction is read by women. Non fiction is read by men.

[Anonymous No.22372495]

>>22370121
>If this isn’t bait
It isn't.

>you’re a soulless faggot
I ain't.

>I bet you’re one of those novelists who don’t read novels.
I don't attach myself to one form of art.
Mind Game inspired me.
Flatland inspired me.
EEAAO inspired me.
Portal inspired me.
Kendrick Lamar inspired me.

>why contemporary literature is in such a sorry state.
It is because words can't compete with images and videos in a attention-reduced world, so people take the easiest route to escapism. Simple as. Can't fight it, so embrace it.
Make your stories more accessible if you want people to engage with it, or go make elitist content but don't complain no on reads it anymore.

> If your goal is to make money writing genre fiction slop for TV and video games, go write scripts (and get off of the literature board, you bug).
>/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc.
>They said I can post here about my creative writing.

>t. a guy who writes poetry, a medium that’s been commercially dead longer than the novel
Hence the pretention, the anger and the elitism. Your character is on point, bro. I liked the Prophet and I enjoy listening to some audio versions of Rumi. There is still room for poetry, good luck trying to make the best out of it.

>>22371156
>Behold the inevitable result of the demise of European cilvization.
Yes.
It is not this Capitalistic System, Ruiner of Communities, Destroyer of Families, Devourer of Talent and Soul for the sake of our new God, Money.
It is I, the Adapting Artist, the true responsible for this downfall.
Sorry.

>>22372079
Also, this.
I always wondered so many people like to read about crime books ? Why do they get a high from violence ?
Then I see stats like these, and it starts to click :
https://universe.byu.edu/2022/09/24/why-women-are-more-likely-to-listen-to-true-crime-podcasts/

It's a woman's world.

[Anonymous No.22372574]

>>22372495
>Kendrick Lamar inspired me.
inspired you to steal a bike?

[Anonymous No.22372584]

>>22372495
>Mind Game, Flatland, EEAAO, Portal, Kenrick Lamar
Your book or video game or whatever the hell is gonna be a mess

[Anonymous No.22372621]

>>22372574
https://www.pulitzer.org/winners/kendrick-lamar
Stay m.A.A.d, bro.
The nigga done more than you ever dreamed of.

>>22372584
Kek, I'm not going to do only one thing.
It's just that all those art forms pushed the boundaries in the pursuit of fun, quirky settings and I think that's what lacking in the world.
Silly well made things, as opposed to trying so hard to be "The Great Work™".
Only my opinion, only doing my thing. There's room for everyone.

[Anonymous No.22372627]

>>22372621
>all those art forms pushed the boundaries in the pursuit of fun, quirky settings and I think that's what lacking in the world
Really? As far as I'm concerned, that's the dominant style right now.

[Anonymous No.22372645]

>>22372627
What was the latest Sci-fi book you read that followed a simple premise but went all-in on it ?
Something like Fahrenheit 451 or Snow Crash ?
Maybe I can't find them, but I just long for cool stories about cool characters doing surprising things.

[Anonymous No.22372660]

>>22360359
The art scene of the contemporary west is extremely dysgenic. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of men not being interested in it because it's so shit, and it becoming even shittier because anyone who might have an original thought or something interesting to say fucked off to someplace else, so all you are left with are the intellectual and spiritual eunuchs, the bourgeois kids, women, brown people, jews, homosexuals, and the like.

[Anonymous No.22372664]

>>22360845
I was thinking the same thing but I kek’d at sire

[Anonymous No.22372665]

>>22372660
It's an amazing and inspiring sign of health that so many people converge on basically eugenics-based insights like this. It shows that this instinct is innate and simply rational and has only been repressed artificially.

[Anonymous No.22372682]

>>22360826
your nose is glowing

[Anonymous No.22372719]

>>22372621
oh man them niggas got so much soul, don't they bro? I swear I ain't white!

[Anonymous No.22372728]

>>22372621
They gave Obongo a Nobel Peace Prize, too. All these political bestowals do is de-value the award itself.

[Anonymous No.22372740]

>>22372728
I wonder how many people that was a reality check for

One of my babby's first reality checks was when I finally saw how rich elite people live and saw that they were all massive Obama supporters who thought he was a real politician and everything. I guess I had just assumed up until then that rich elites were smart enough to know that it's all fake and managed political theater, and to have a kind of enlightened smug aloofness about it. But they took the soap opera just as seriously as my middle class and poor friends. I realized then that the elite classes don't really dominate, they are just used as enforcers by the real dominators.

[Anonymous No.22372762]

>>22372740
my own experiences are similar. Climbing the ladder and I become disillusioned at every rung. I'm endlessly wondering whether there's a real, true, bonafide stratum of society that can really separate black from white, so to speak.

[Anonymous No.22372765]

>>22360756
I always think it’s funny when atheist moderns that don’t know a lick of theology insist “this is just [religious denomination]!” Whether it’s true or not, they really have no idea what they’re talking about. Land was a schizo by the way. RWers latch onto him and Yarvin because they’re desperate for credibility via credentials. Otherwise, his philosophy is actual bullshit and Yarvin is a known liar.

[Anonymous No.22372771]

>>22360474
Unfortunately, this is true. Technology really changed everything.

[Anonymous No.22372776]

>>22361152
It’s not that it can’t where you’re mistaken. You’re mistaken in thinking people want those things. They don’t. Houllebecq is the literary equivalent of a shock jock. He gets eyes because he gives them the Jerry Springer shit show they want, not classical literature.

[Anonymous No.22372780]

>>22367841
Say “ya’ll” one more time.

[Anonymous No.22372788]

>>22372740
From a cynical standpoint, it is preferable to go along with bullshit even if you are aware of it all being bullshit as long as it benefits you than to call out bullshit for no real reward. People around here are only so bold in calling bullshit out because they have nothing to lose to begin with, unlike successful people who understandably would prefer not to commit social suicide.

[Anonymous No.22372790]

>>22365165
Your view is not even close to the reality.

[Anonymous No.22372798]

>>22367940
Graphic novels are an entirely different medium that demands entirely different skills. It’s less related to novel writing than even something like directing films ffs.

[Anonymous No.22372802]

>>22367841
The other anon has alerted me that you are a FAGGOT!

[Anonymous No.22372894]

>>22367841
>So you purposefully choose a dying media, that no one reads, not especially your own kind, and feel sad about it ?

It was unavoidable that anons would feel a sense of connection with a dying medium, as unwanted elements in humanity's future barely kept alive by a lingering sense of foolish romanticism.

[Anonymous No.22372918]

>>22372495
Again, I write poetry, a medium that died with the aristocracy. I don’t have any skin in this game, so there’s no anger or complaining coming from me. I just think your mentality is pathetic. Your end goal is to create escapist stories and quirky settings in pursuit of either money or attention, and you think you’re standing on solid enough ground to tell people here what to do with their time.

You mentioned horses — you realize people do still own and ride horses, right? And they’re not doing it to get from point A to point B. There are other considerations, like a connection to the past, companionship, etc. Would you walk up to someone and say “GET RID OF YOUR PET! WE HAVE CARS NOW!!!?”

[Anonymous No.22373108]

>>22372790
>the reality
Which is?

[Anonymous No.22373111]

>>22360474
>There's no money
King, Rowling, Tolkien, etc.
>no fame
Rowling, Collins, Dan Brown, etc.
>no cultural relevance
LOTR, HP, and the vast amount of works by Shakespeare and Dostoevsky still referenced in popular culture
>It's a form of art that ran it's course and concluded
No form of art has ever done that. Literature is one of the earliest humanities, present in all culture.
>Published literature of today is a plaything, cute little past time for upper class liberal women to fill up their valid days.
Published literature of today is the same as published literature ever since the advent of publishing. The current perceived bias for a certain class or category of people or type of work does not change that. Elizabethan era publishers did not deem plays worthy of publishing, yet we still got to know Shakespeare. (The Riverside Shakespeare)
>Literature passed from being a real thing onto an aesthetic symbol. Like, say, swordfighting. Thousands of people are still fascinated by bladed weapons and fencing arts, but none of them study it to defend their homes or conquer new lands
Literature is more than what is published. Also, not only it can defend homes and conquer new lands, but it can change one's home too, and isn't that what we are experiencing with the contemporary emphasis on Postcolonialism and Gender Theory? By this we then defend our new home against the old ideals we now deem immoral and thus an "enemy," such as racism and social inequality.
>The enjoy the idea of purpose knowing full well that purpose no longer exists
People practice swordfighting for the experience the activity brings, not for the sake of defending or expanding their country's honor. If the latter was their wish, they would then enlist to the military
>People who want to say something, to express themselves, to change the world or whatnot, have endless better avenues to choose from. YouTube, social media influence, programming, ..., even memes and 4chan
Then let Caesar change the world through politics and let Hugo change the world through literature
>Why would anyone spend their life writing the Next Great Novel only to have it be read by a score of bored moms?
The goal of the author of the Next Great Novel transcends that of being read by bored moms. If a writer were to be discouraged by this perspective, then he is unfit to write the Next Great Novel. And if the result were to be that his work is only being read in actuality by bored moms, then the fault lies not at his heart, but in his talent to render the Next Great Novel. Failing to pen greatness, he succumbs to the average, the middle of the bell, where the scores of bored moms are found. And this is the reason for your view that modern literature is only being read by this type of audience: (you) are seeing the average. But the next great entry to the world's canon will not be found in the average, but at the rightmost tip of the bell.

[Anonymous No.22373114]

>>22371173
That fantasy has no relation to what I said lmao

[Anonymous No.22373120]

>>22370173
Argument for what? Citizens can complain about anything they want, especially if it goes against their well-being.

[Anonymous No.22373164]

>>22372660
>an original thought or something interesting to say

Gee, I wonder what this could be.

[Anonymous No.22373171]

>>22373108
They don’t want literature that treats them as outsiders. They just want literature, good, classic literature. There are also no outsiders turned insiders. The insiders are the same. They just push different shit. You live in a fantasy world, probably contextualized mainly by the internet and academia if I had to guess. You don’t actually know these people, what they think, or what these so-called white boys really want, only what you want and what you think.

[Anonymous No.22373181]

>>22373171
>You don’t actually know these people, what they think, or what these so-called white boys really want, only what you want and what you think.
Change 'white boys' for literally any /pol/ boogeymand and the same applies. Not that guy btw.

[Anonymous No.22373187]

>>22372660
>>women, brown people, jews,
blah blah blah I will only read works written by my fetish subject: white men.
U might be looking for a gay daddy, mate.

[Anonymous No.22373192]

Unfortunately, nobody has managed to solve the curation problem. In Japan, there’s been for a long time a circuit of sites that authors of all stripes can publish on and let the readers sort them out. It works well, but the problem is really that the standard for this sort of thing is really quite low there. People looking for literature on the level of the sort of classic literature they’re used to won’t find it there, not only because that sort of thing is rarer but also because that’s not what the masses of readers want. So there’s a curation problem and it doesn’t satisfy Westerners. You can’t resort to online publishing for that reason and traditional publishing has been taken over by ideology, excluding the demographic most likely to publish this sort of literature. It’s not over for white male authors but I have no idea what the solution to this is. You have to first of all accept that text is an antique at this point, but then you have to decide if you’re going to take back publishing or innovate some alternative outside of the trad-self/online dichotomy. There’s basically no hope otherwise.

[Anonymous No.22373193]

>>22373181
The reply specifically mentioned that demographic. How can it apply when he didn’t give his take on that demographic? You sound like an idiot.

[Anonymous No.22373196]

>>22373187
>men
>fetish
You're a fag

[Anonymous No.22373202]

>>22373193
Same logic applies, I meant. I did not reply to the whole thing, only that little section. Faggot.

[Anonymous No.22373206]

>>22367841
>y'all
hang from a tree

[Anonymous No.22373208]

>>22373206
this

[Anonymous No.22373221]

>>22373171
>They just want literature, good, classic literature.
Which is what, exactly? As in when did we stop producing good, classic literature?

>The insiders are the same. They just push different shit.
Why did the insiders decide to stop publishing white men?

>what they think
What do they think, white boy whisperer?

[Anonymous No.22373223]

>>22372660
The solution can be found in Medieval Literature and the Middle Ages.

[Anonymous No.22373225]

>>22373221
c. 1950-1990 is when it really entered free fall. It’s mostly because they became tools of political parties.

[Anonymous No.22373240]

You would be quick to blame the Jews but I blame the Anglos and their phony identitarian nonsense. Jews are greedy, they would not profit from rejecting authors like this. Anglos (and their ilk) function differently. Their minds are rotten with the guild-ridden liberal virus. Completely subservient to their capricious women and their retarded ideologies. The west is unironically falling because women have too much power but little sense.

[Anonymous No.22373245]

>>22373240
guilt-ridden

[Anonymous No.22373399]

>>22373240
Stop it. It’s not just Anglos that are liberal-progressives just like it’s just Jews. This whole culture has been eroded by atheism, consumerism, hedonism, technophilia, powerphilia, and all the others. It’s not unique to any one demographic but all Westerners and all people living in the West.

[Anonymous No.22373429]

>>22373399
It mostly happens in the Anglosphere. It is an Anglo disease. And yes, unfortunately it's spreading fast. Example: All the fag ideology, including the acronym, the flag, the parade, the codified terminology, and related things were invented in the US (an Anglo culture).

[Anonymous No.22373546]

>>22373206
>>22372719
>>22372660
>>22372728

Oh, so you are just a bunch of racist ?
Kek.
I sometimes forget that people ACTUALLY believe one race is better than another.
Dying species holding a dying thinking, complaining about a dying media.
It all fits.

Enjoy your fall fellas, don't check in on the way out.

>>22372918
>I just think your mentality is pathetic
Oh.
>there’s no anger
Sure about that ?
Aren't poets supposed to score high on emotional intelligence ? At least, I thought so.

>Your end goal is to create escapist stories and quirky settings in pursuit of either money or attention
You inferred.

People read for three reasons :
-They want to learn about a topic (story, place, person,...).
-They want to elevate themselves (self-help and all that jazz)
-They want to escape
Sometimes, reasons mix. You can read fiction to escape and learn more about the way the world works or could work, elevating yourself to see things differently in the process.

That's what I want to do. I want to have an impact through stories.
In my way of seeing things, and we may disagree, but only the story matters. I don't care about the hardness of your science-fiction, the softness of your magic system.
What's the story ?

Also, I don't care about money, I'll keep my day job to avoid pimping my muses and to create what I would like to read, not what sells.
I don't care about attention, I'm writing about stuff that appeals only to a few. Otherwise, I'd pump romance novels and furry erotica.
No diss, to each their own, really.

> you think you’re standing on solid enough ground to tell people here what to do with their time.
I don't. I said "good luck trying to make the best out of it".

>you realize people do still own and ride horses, right.
Ah, so we agree ?
Horses are not popular like they were in the past. They are still used, not as a popular method of travel, but for other purposes, mostly by the upper-class.

The same can be said about literature, and to some extent about the male fiction novels.
They are not the dominant form of media anymore.
That was my point.


This thread apparently ruffles some feathers.
Don't know what's being argued really.
In the end, the only advice as always is to just write something you find cool and to stop complaining about anything anyone ever says.
Worked for the greatest.

[Anonymous No.22373552]

>>22373399
It's not jews so much as Angloid protestants. Even Israeli Jews are starting to diverge from their Anglo-American counterparts.

[Anonymous No.22374263]

>>22370208
imagine the seething if the word religion in that pic is replaced with socioeconomic factors

[Anonymous No.22375764]

>>22371207
Publishers actually tend to want zoom calls now to make sure you're not a pen-name.

[Anonymous No.22375808]

>>22363104
>can be done better by women desu.
lmao no

[Anonymous No.22375843]

>>22373192
It's just down to categorization imo.
Japanese non-LN writers don't need to go the webnovel route because they aren't actively excluded by their publishing industry in the first place.

[Anonymous No.22375871]

>>22372621
you are a deeply embarrassing person

[Anonymous No.22375889]

>>22361061
>comparing clicking on a ten minute video for free to paying for a large book

[Anonymous No.22375895]

>>22362683
>fascist

Why would I want a system that has most of the same problems as the current one? Replacing an oppressive, illegitimate state with another one solves nothing.

[Anonymous No.22375941]

>>22361012
It is all that, but it’s also simply that the population has been so dumbed down, made so lazy, and pushed more and more to strictly STEM-brained stuff. It’s not merely because they think literature is strictly pozzed stuff, although that is part of it.

[Anonymous No.22375952]

>>22361030
He is somewhat right though. The typical American male high school graduate has an impression of Western literature that equates basically to a sort of liberal-progressive moralizing. That’s not to say that reactionary literature is somehow a solution or even necessarily better, but rather that these people have crammed in their heads the notion that literature is basically just that, indoctrination into post-modern liberal moralizing culture. Whether they’d find anything worthwhile in pre-modern chivalric literature, heroic romances, Fascistic modern poets, Evolian schizophrenia or any of this stuff is besides the point because they don’t even know it exists. And quite frankly, that’s probably for the best because this is a very inorganic civilization that has no real use for literature which serves as something other than a civic social engineering tool. It considers literature basically the way it considers religion, as a tool for control, and not as what it really it is. So his point is very fair.

[Anonymous No.22375953]

>>22362673

[Anonymous No.22375959]

>>22373429
It happens in the Western cultural sphere and it happens the most in the Anglosphere only in so far as it’s the subgroup of the culture broadly which is most conducive to this sort of thing. Non-English-speaking Europeans are commonly more monolithic and dogmatic in their adherence to liberal-progressivism, but they don’t quite as often stray into total abject insanity and when they do, nobody cares. When liberal professors in American universities defend pedophilia, the world loses its mind but when French ones did it, nobody batted an eye.

[Anonymous No.22375962]

>>22373429
This is historical revisionism. All of this shit originated in Europe. Americans nearly took up the mantle and made it institutionally dogmatic, political, and economic. You will just blatantly lie your ass off to fit a narrative it seems.

[Anonymous No.22375972]

>>22373552
Israeli Jews are not Americans, not Europeans, and not Westerners. They had a great run through the 20th century when the American regime positioned itself against Nazi regime and by then arguably anti-Semitic Soviet regime. Jews excelled in American institutions and the American elite welcomed them because they were useful. Israeli Jews in particular became useful too American goals in the Middle East and the Israeli lobby enjoyed unparalleled influence. Now that the American left has started positioning itself against Israel because of their own political program at home, Israeli Jews are just doubling down on the right, which hasn’t yet let go of it’s post-war consensus myth or NeoCon aims in the Middle East. That’s all that’s happening. It has nothing at all to do with Jews abandoning Anglos. The Anglos that happen to lead the Democratic Party in the United States are abandoning Israeli Jews if anything. And frankly, calling those people doing the abandoning Anglos is a huge stretch. Many of them are Anglos as has always been the case among the American elite, but then again many of them are not.

[Anonymous No.22375977]

>>22375843
They do though. Most of those LN writers are discovered online before they’re ever traditionally published. But my point was that taking up the Japanese method would at best get us shitty LNs and not real literature.

[Anonymous No.22375982]

>>22362673
Well, there’s no way of separating the wheat from the chaff and the people who are serious and have integrity from those who aren’t and don’t. If you do a /lit/ publication, you end up mostly with F. Gardner shit and not the 10% of anons who are actually serious about poetry or whatever. There’s no way to sniff those people out and exclude the others.

[Anonymous No.22375991]

>>22362673
I think a huge problem is there simply aren’t enough good originals to publish. Anyone who spins up a publisher is going to spend most of their time selling known classics and translating forgotten classics. We just need to accept that the quality of what’s being written these days, even by us, is not that good comparatively.

[Anonymous No.22376003]

I think the single biggest problem is that the tradition has effectively ended with the post-war generation. When you read about poets and even many novelists from the time of Homer up to the 20th century, what you find is that these people were hanging out with each other, apprenticing with each other, living together, sharing their writing, producing each other’s stuff. There was always an older generation that was willing to take the younger generation under their wing. That stopped over the last century, and now poets and writers don’t really have anywhere to go to practice and master their craft in-person.

[Anonymous No.22376048]

>>22361012
>Why are young white men turning away from literary pursuits?
Radio, television, internet, porn. Men were lured with fun content only find the degeneracy of those mediums and leave men intellectually castrated.

[Anonymous No.22376050]

>>22376048
To*

[Anonymous No.22376295]

Some people aren't going to like hearing this, but I think making this a white men vs. the world issue is a mistake. Yes, there are people in the industry who have it out for white men in particular, but it's not like we're seeing a bunch of straight black, Hispanic, or Asian men publishing novels, either. Yet if you go into a bookstore you'll easily run into tons of black girl or latinx led books. And from what I've seen, most straight minorities don't have a problem with white leads in fiction/TV/video games. This is straight men vs. women & LGBT because those are the people buying and reading all the books, and also the loudest on social media. I remember there was a thread a little while back where a bunch of /lit/ admitted to pirating everything they read and I was just like, "And this is why we are where we are today."

[Anonymous No.22376301]

>>22375952
>The typical American male high school graduate has an impression of Western literature that equates basically to a sort of liberal-progressive moralizing.
I agree, this sucks. Literature should be something wild and dangerous, almost scary. Schools should tell students that their faggy little minds can't handle books.

>but rather that these people have crammed in their heads the notion that literature is basically just that, indoctrination into post-modern liberal moralizing culture.
If this is your lasting impression of literature after leaving high school you're ngmi anyway. And if you turn to shit like "Uncle Ted" and Turner Diaries for edgelord cred you're as gay as the libs.

>and not as what it really it is
Which (according to you) is?

[Anonymous No.22376316]

>>22360359
My strategy is going to be shopping my manuscript around with a penname that suggests I'm Native-Canadian and delaying meeting anyone in person until after the book is published.

[Anonymous No.22376340]

>>22376301
You’re not worth replying to. Your second little paragraph made that clear.

[Anonymous No.22376344]

>>22376316
They're going to want a picture, for promo purposes. These days you're expected to have social media profiles too

[Anonymous No.22376360]

>>22376340
>The /pol/tard cries out in pain as he hits you.

[Anonymous No.22376392]

>>22376360
You’re just not smart or sincere. You said “ngmi” like a chronically online person. You’re as internet-brained as the “poltards”.

[Anonymous No.22376441]

>>22376392
So you're a newfag as well. Cute.

[Anonymous No.22376842]

>>22360756
>Progressivism is a branch of Calvinism
Its those Calvinists, I tell ya! They run the media, academia, big banks, even the government!

[Anonymous No.22378222]

>>22360845
>he doesn't has [sic, like his sense of humor]a funny bone for misspellings

[Anonymous No.22378238]

>>22360359
I like how the most obvious implication of this isn't brought up. That maybe, just maybe, there's men reading books.
But they just pirate them. Or even go to the library. And thus, the sales for male targeted works are going down, because men are smarter with their money, and rather get a good book than BUY a shitty meme book. even shitty movie books like Star Wars, X-Wing Wedge's Gamble, was funner than some books I read for girls,

[Anonymous No.22378275]

>>22362594
4chan is a diverse place. We are equal in our faceless anonymity. I am 100% against this, even if super models did it, because it doesn't MATTER what gender you are. It doesn't MATTER what race you are. If you're a retard, YOU'RE A RETARD.
This is discounting CIA and bots of course. Get the fuck out of here you pervs, I want sincere, or at least, ironic-sincere anons, not glowies

[Anonymous No.22378303]

>>22362594
Honestly they should post themselves naked and still be prevented from speaking

[Anonymous No.22378357]

>>22361012
>Why are young white men turning away from literary pursuits?
I seen the answer why visiting my family. It isn't even a racial thing, it's universal
>be kid
>dad forces you to read Lord of the Flies
>you're a faggot retard and rather read about stocks
>get beaten for not reading a book you hate
>"I hate books"
We raise books like it's sunday school. Imagine if your parents, or your teachers, forced you to read your favorite book, and you never read it. If I got beaten for not reading Fear and Loathing on time, I would not have read it. But because I found it naturally, I ended up loving the book.
We need to bring that sort of culture in. Get kids to read stories that interest them. Let them in a library of diverse books, and see which one resonates with them. You think many of us got into games cause our dad beat us into liking them? Of course not! We saw a wizard, or a swordsman, or a plumber, and thought "this looks fun". Now books have became a boring pastime

[Anonymous No.22378391]

>>22362673
>this doxing stuff
What the fuck is wrong with this board? How hard is it to not get dox? You're just sending text. Is it just to get published/physical copies? If that's the case, I'm sorry to just printing it? If that's the case, I'm sympathetic, I like me physical books. But if I do participate in this movement, I sure as shit am not gonna value publishing,
>>22361341
>A bit dramatic, mate, but you're not wrong about men needing to seek a new path. It's part of what caused the explosion of stuff like LitRPG and Royal Road in recent years. Discussing ways male authors could pivot was my original intention before the topic devolved into whether it was even an issue at all.
I'm still pissed that I bought a classmate books, and it's just been a litrpg. Faggot said it was about Celtic mythology, yet called Aoi elves

[Anonymous No.22378415]

>>22378357
Just admit you are one of those faggots jerking to anime child porn on Discord and fuck off already.

[Anonymous No.22378434]

>>22360359
/lit/ needs to start its own publisher.

[2nd !!DFO6A75vftM No.22378438]

>>22362575
I think you've got this whole thing inverted. The circlejerk aspect of it repels people that otherwise might have some talent and the literary movements you describe succeeded despite the petty personal drama, not because of it. You already have this in the form of the Dimes Square losers and it's clearly not helping—nobody outside of their circle reads their stuff. Outlets like the New York Times write pieces about the drama, but just ignore the writings. This is partially because if you read their work it's just not very good, but the problem is deeper.

The problem is quite simple: Nobody cares about literature. Zoomers do not read, in fact, it's not just that they don't read, it's that they cannot read—they have become retarded. The average zoomer attention span is 8 seconds; millennials 12. How many seconds do you need to read a page? Maybe if we started to release books that have family guy clips playing on the top of the page you'd get some success. But why would you want to? Zoomers are retarded. "Odysseus be deadass bussin frfr no cap :skullemoji:" Ah, yes, just what we need.

Who still reads? Women. At least, supposedly they do. I don't know, maybe it's more accurate to say women buy books—I don't know if they read them. Go on Pinterest and search for "books" (look at my picture) that's what women really want out of it, they want to adopt a certain aesthetic. They want to be the flowery shy bookworm who sips pumpkin spice tea at the university library. There they will be approached by the "sensitive young man." A 6'3 broad shouldered Chad who wears turtleneck sweaters and circle rimmed glasses. "Awww he's sooo sweeet!" That's what it's all about. Fashion. Looks. Appearances. That's the sin of the age. There is nothing of substance left, and if there were it would not be valued but by a scant few. That's the problem. Don't introduce more bullshit into the equation.

[Anonymous No.22378456]

>>22362575
>twitter and substack
stopped reading right there

[Anonymous No.22378490]

>>22378357

ITS OVER WHITE BOI. BLACK MEN BE TAKING OVER BOOKS!

/LIT/ BUILT FOR BBC EDITION OFFICIAL LIST

Stephenie Meyer
>BLACKED
Jennette McCurdy
>BLACKED
Hermione Granger
>BLACKED
Mary Shelley
>BLACKED
Jane Austin
>BLACKED
Bella Swan
>BLACKED
F Gardner
>BLACKED
Lindsay Ellis
>BLACKED
Emily Dickinson
>BLACKED
Anne Frank
>BLACKED
Daenerys Targaryen
BLACKED
Virginia Woolfe
>BLACKED

GAME OVER WHITE BOI

[Anonymous No.22378995]

>>22378238
Women go to libraries more than men, but no doubt there are more men pirating and we've had whole threads about it here on /lit/. But when polled on their reading, men statistically read less than women do. And even if they were reading at the same rates, it means jack shit to the publishing industry if they're not putting their money where their mouths are. Basically, if everything you suspect is true, their frugality's only screwing us all over in the long run. Publishers will just shift their opinion from "men don't read" to an even worse "men won't pay even if the subject matter interests them."

[Anonymous No.22379513]

>>22378995
You are right that it's still bad, but I just find the idea that men would rather read good/classic books vs garbage modern books a lot funnier, and want to point it out

[Anonymous No.22379600]

>>22378415
You seem upset.

[Anonymous No.22379628]

>>22379600
Not me by the way, I'm not gonna engage in conversations of people calling me a trannie, when everyone in my family hates my trannies so much.

[Anonymous No.22379643]

the real problem is that men no longer read, and what little they read are book about the hustle and becoming alpha and other similar scams. that's the issue.

[Anonymous No.22379659]

>>22378438
>The problem is quite simple: Nobody cares about literature.
The number is slowly shrinking with each decade, but there's still plenty of people that care about literature. They're at universities, in lit journals, on indie publishers. But you knew that already, you just wanted an excuse to post some truly epic takedowns.

[2nd !!DFO6A75vftM No.22379683]

>>22379659
By people I mean the general population. For example back in the day everyone knew and read Dickens. Is there a modern day Dickens in that respect?

Yes, I did want to post some truly epic takedowns, you got that right. I hope they were epic enough for your liking.

[Anonymous No.22379694]

>>22360543
>>22360469
Kill yourselves faggots.

[Anonymous No.22379704]

>>22360359
>daily mail
this bit from Sapkowski's The Lady of the Lake always comes to mind

[Anonymous No.22379714]

>>22376295
So close.
It's a bourgeois vs proles issue.
Always have, always have been.

You have more in common with the nearest woman to you, than Elon Musk.
You have more in common with the nearest tranny to you, than to Jeff Bezos.

The fact that this place, one that places intellectuality so high on their values, can't see this show you how they played us well.

[Anonymous No.22379733]

>>22379714
>You have more in common with the
Nothing where it matters.

[Anonymous No.22379838]

>>22363570
what's that?

[Anonymous No.22379855]

>>22376842
It’s not Calvinism proper, but Calvinism or something sort of influenced by or downstream of Calvinism is the mainstream American religion. Even Catholics blindly accept Calvinist precepts in America. It’s not just that this country is Protestantized. It’s Calvinized. Woke shit is obviously not properly Calvinism but it really is an awful lot like it.

[Anonymous No.22379863]

>>22379838
She was a woman who published under a male name back when the tables were turned

[Anonymous No.22379874]

>>22378357
Kids won’t naturally choose to read books in a world full of screens. I’m dealing with this with my brother right now. He’s a college freshman and has expressed desire to read more. He doesn’t want to go through college without having read anything. I’ve bought him dozens of books that he’s asked for. A year later, he’s read none of them. Getting him to put down the phone is like pulling teeth. He is literally always attached to it. When he’s awake, he’s on the phone. When he’s asleep, he has AirPods in and is listening to something. He is plugged in 24/7 and getting him to put it down to read for an hour is like getting a heroin junkie to go cold turkey. Here’s the kicker: everyone under twenty-five is like this.

I actually don’t even know what to do anymore because he’s at risk of fucking up his life because he can’t put down his phone.

[Anonymous No.22379888]

>>22379838
henceforth i shall be Shaniqua Ngubu

[Anonymous No.22379892]

>>22379874
The zoomers are fucked, there is no saving them. Probably their kids too. All we can do now is have a fascist revolution within 20-30 years so that their kids or their kids' kids can be raised properly. Just view the upcoming generation as retarded brood mares and cannon fodder at most. They can incubate a future generation, and die fighting to create the world in which that future generation won't be retarded, but they can't be un-retarded themselves. Their function is to give birth and die.

[Anonymous No.22379927]

>>22379892
I can’t accept that for my brother. I also had problems at his age. Getting free took a lot of failure. My goal is to get him to not fail so much.

[Anonymous No.22380011]

>>22379892
Is 24 zoomer? I fear I am doomed

[Anonymous No.22380015]

>>22379892
>All we can do now is have a fascist revolution
But I thought you didn't want the kids to be retarded.

[Anonymous No.22380163]

>>22360473
>Just write.
Yes. Write for those wonderful Word documents on your hard drive.

[Anonymous No.22380309]

>>22380163
I use pages

[Anonymous No.22380338]

>>22379874
>Kids won’t naturally choose to read books in a world full of screens.
My belief is that we're going to experience a rejection of screens, the internet, etc. by a minority of people in the coming years.
It'll be mostly millennials, sure, but I do think there's a "tech burnout" in a not insignificant number of people. Whether this will go all the way down to zoomers or alphas is another matter.

[Anonymous No.22380544]

>>22380011
Posting the only good tweet for you

[Anonymous No.22381016]

>>22380338
Two more weeks anon. It's gonna happen

[Anonymous No.22381033]

>>22381016
I think it has already started to happen. But, by the nature of it, you wont really know about it online.

[Anonymous No.22381081]

>>22381033
Then they are relatively unimportant aren't they? If it doesn't exist publically, do they really exist? Who can even say they're real? I meet lots of people who don't use the internet. Mostly they sit around having the same discussions that filter down to them through the Internet and network TV. That their existence lacks scalability and reach means, almost by definition, that they are insignificant.

[Anonymous No.22381128]

>>22381081
It's because they haven't started creating their own counter-culture yet.

[Anonymous No.22381133]

>>22381081
too bad any existence with scalability and reach isn't any kind of meaningful existence at all. Impossible for individuated existence to exist at scale—the trade-off of light-weight comprehensibility is the reduction of dimension. Participating in a cacophony (as if anybody could tell)—at least I was LOUD!

>Mostly they sit around having the same discussions that filter down to them through the Internet and network TV
that has nothing to do with the fact they don't use social media, that has to do with the result that you and everybody you surround yourself with are inferior, irrelevant animals. There's no action you could possibly take to free yourself from this horrible fate.

>That their existence lacks scalability and reach means, almost by definition, that they are insignificant.
ah, glorious equivocation

[Anonymous No.22381264]

>>22381128
What media and social technologies will that "counter culture" be mediated through? Will it be broadcast on TV? Will the implications of it be discussed.on the evening news? By alt podcasters? Perhaps a loosely connected network of HAM Radio operators living in rural farmsteads across America? A revolution that isn't televised is no revolution at all. There have been successful revolutions which only took place on TV. So why handicap yourself liker that?

>>22381133
>too bad any existence with scalability and reach isn't any kind of meaningful existence at all. Impossible for individuated existence to exist at scale—the trade-off of light-weight comprehensibility is the reduction of dimension
That's a bold statement, but can you back it up with anything? Every word is a reduction of dimension, a one dimensional representation of meaning for the ends of scalable communication. Despite what some anons and tribal Bushmen think, cameras don't steal your soul. They are a useful tool.

>Ad hominum attacks
What do so called superior, relevant people do? Sit around grunting at each other? Remember that books are.just another form of mass media. All the intellectual depth of the printing press has lead up to a culmination in social media, the internet, and other technologies. Sitting in the mud and harking back to a simpler, apparently better time, is the behaviour of a coward. We have no way out but through, like it or not.

[Anonymous No.22381520]

>>22381264
Your exaggerated, black and white thinking is a chore to read. We weren't even talking about tech, but sure, i can pivot easily.

Technology is neither good nor bad—but it's pretty obvious that we're very bad at incorporating it into our lives. Look at whatever stats you think are important to confirm that society is circling the drain—mental health, wages versus real estate, sexual patterns, cross-generational opinion polling—nobody thinks things are going just fine—the only people who disagree are gaslight fuckwits like you who believe a priori that literally any possible development in the human story is for the best—it's completely ludicrous on it's face.

I have several friends who've "embraced" the brave new world we live in, semi-successful streamers, influencers, et cetera—and I can assure you they're all miserable (of course they'd be more miserable shoveling shit while Mike Rowe films them, but I digress). They don't like what they do, and they hate every aspect of what they need to do to survive in the e-hellscape advertisers have turned the internet into. There's just no other option.

It's one thing to shrug your shoulders and say it is what it is, but don't even fucking begin to prattle on about how this mode of living is superior to what's come before it. I'll repeat myself: Technology is neither good nor bad, inherently, but relatively speaking, it's a brand new phase of existence we've entered into in the last century, maybe even last few decades depending on where we want to draw lines, and to think humans have nailed it, right out of the park, first attempt, no problem, is so stupid I can't even comprehend how fucking delusional you have to be to believe this whole-heartedly, no debate even necessary.

>cameras don't steal your soul
i think modern life make a very good case that the tribal busmen were intuitively right on target

>Sitting in the mud and harking back to a simpler, apparently better time, is the behaviour of a coward
too afraid to sit around in the mud, are we? You coward! Knave! Poppycock!

>Ad hominum attacks
>Ad hominum attacks

[Anonymous No.22381831]

>>22379892
I don’t think it’s utterly impossible for someone raised in a manner that suppressed genius to be(come) a genius, especially if they live to see that culture die. Zoomers could actually become the most fervent haters of that culture—like Brave New World but for the one toddler who starts to find mummy’s ipad boring.

[Anonymous No.22381837]

>>22381520
>hominum

[Anonymous No.22381955]

>>22360359
More or less, you can't be Vonnegut or Updike or even Nabokov anymore. You have to be a world historic genius, a prophet, or else there is no point

[Anonymous No.22382058]

>>22381520
The point I suppose I'm trying to make is that current information technology allows for the (theoretically, not practically) infinite scalability of communication over a distance. This is a huge change, and its not going to go away by sticking your head in the sand.

Yes, this creates a lot of noise, but it introduces a new reality that has to adopted to. Objectively speaking, perhaps things like diving down spooky Wikipedia rabbit-holes about glowing historical events alone in your room until 4am, or sexting with bored e-whores on the other side of the planet, or ordering experimental research chemicals online using open source currency in order to fry your brain while streaming the greatest hits of Western Baroque cello compilations on surround sound may not be the best thing for your mental health; but we are in uncharted territory here.

What the major issue is, is that people cannot simply opt out of this. These ideas permeate every fiber of modern society. You can shut off your laptop, but ideas that percolate online will reach your local coffee shop with unnerving speed. There are examples of groups like the Amish, which have rejected modernity altogether, but they've only saved themselves, by retreating into insular communities. Assuming you're intellectually curious, cosmopolitan, and interested in ideas, this is no kind of life to live. The world as it is has to be dealt with, to be interacted with.

I'm not going to pretend for a second that this is a necessarily good thing, but it is a material reality, and it has to be overcome if man is to survive. To be clear I'm not a social media influencer, and I've never even watched a live stream. I worked in an artisanal field and a craftsman, all my social media accounts are pseudonyms and aliases, only use burner phones and public wifi, and I am more fanatically paranoid than most concerning the omnipresent surveillance apparatus that is modern tech. But thinking we can just turn away from it, retreat into ourselves, or small farming co-ops, where we jerk each-other off and churn our own butter, is a ridiculous notion. Technology is too omnipresent, too powerful. We need to embrace it, charge it head on, and try to understand it. After all, what beautiful powers it offers us, to broadcast to the world, to have personal archives that would rival the great libraries of old, to master technologies that would seem like magic to the men of last century. By overcoming technology, we overcome ourselves. Behold, I teach you the overman. The overman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth!