/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22341197]

The fact that Orthodoxy has this book automatically puts it at the very top in terms of literary output. Augustine, Dante, etc. don't compare to this actual spiritual masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.22341200]

>>22341197
Nothing compares to Dante.

[Anonymous No.22341206]

>>22341197
>Orthodoxy
They were Catholic

[Anonymous No.22341211]

>>22341206
No, Catholics don't maintain this monastic tradition, only the Orthodox do.

[Anonymous No.22341217]

>>22341211
?

[Anonymous No.22341222]

>>22341217
Just say you never read the book or you don't know anything about monasticism instead of posting a picture from Google.

[Anonymous No.22341225]

>>22341222
Catholic monks exist retard. St. Benedict was directly influenced by desert fathers

[Anonymous No.22341228]

>>22341197
The fact that Lutheranism has this book automatically puts it at the very top in terms of literary output. Augustine, Dante, etc. don't compare to this actual spiritual masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.22341238]

>>22341225
Where did I say they don't exist? I said they don't maintain the tradition presented in the book, that of extreme asceticism.

>>22341228
That book is spiritual dogshit though.

[Anonymous No.22341241]

>>22341238
>That book is spiritual dogshit though.
Explain.

[Anonymous No.22341243]

>>22341238
Benedictine monks pray 8 hours a day and work 8 hours and sleep 8 hours. Sounds like asceticism to me.

[Anonymous No.22341252]

>>22341241
I did.
>>22341243
That's because you never read the book and you don't know about Orthdoox ascecitism. Silouan was sleeping 2 hours per night and praying with no breaks.

[Anonymous No.22341253]

What is the appeal here? It just seems like ancient schizo posting.

[Anonymous No.22341268]

>>22341252
Bro one exceptional guy doesn’t prove anything. The monks on mt athos pray work sleep 8 hours a day just like the benedictines.

[Anonymous No.22341274]

>>22341268
The Orthodox follow the ancient tradition of the guys in the book, you follow some other guy's tradition. This is irrefutable and you're stupid.

[Anonymous No.22341276]

>>22341197
>>>/x/

[Anonymous No.22341278]

>>22341274
Saint Benedict was heavily influenced by the desert fathers, sorry

[Anonymous No.22341281]

>>22341278
Protestants were heavily influenced by Catholics, but they don't follow the Catholic tradition. See >>22341274
>you're stupid.

[Anonymous No.22341289]

>>22341281
You realise Saint Benedict is a saint in the Orthodox Church too? You just called him a Protestant xD

[Anonymous No.22341290]

>>22341211
There are Catholic monasteries still

[Anonymous No.22341294]

>>22341289
I didn't...
>>22341289
>>22341290
You're both illiterate, please stop posting.

[Anonymous No.22341296]

>No true Scotsman
lmao

[Anonymous No.22341299]

>>22341294
Not an argument

[Anonymous No.22341306]

>>22341294
He was the founder of monasticism in Western Europe. You just claimed he stands in the same relation to the desert fathers as the Protestants do to the Catholics. So you think he perverted their doctrine in some way. Can you explain what it is about the Rule of St. Benedict that perverts the doctrine of the desert fathers? Because the guy was directly influenced by them and sought to establish in Europe the same system. Your only argument has been “this one guy slept only 2 hours and prayed the rest of the day once”. But the monks on mt athos follow the same time schedule as the Benedictine monks.

[Anonymous No.22341312]

>>22341281
>>22341289
Catholic/Orthodox or fallen harlot apostate Protestantism which does follow Catholic tradition, it makes no difference, they're all going to receive the plagues as it is written: The harlot daughter partakes of her whore mother's false doctrine, so she receives of the plagues.

Man doesn't have the authority to change God's Law and one of the biggest points of contention in Christ's day was not abolishing the law but rebuking religious leaders who teach for doctrine the commandments of men and have made the word of God of none effect. Another issue was the 4th commandment, which by their tradition made a burden; but by Romanist tradition they've destroyed the 4th commandment and replaced it with their "venerable day of the sun". Who will you obey, God or man? The seal of God or the mark of the beast?

>>22341296
Matthew 7:15
Matthew 7:21-23
1 John 4:1
Revelation 17:6
Revelation 18:4

[Anonymous No.22341313]

Catholics: Dante, Aquinas, Augustine, Bonaventure
Protestants: Bach, Jacobi, Kierkegaard, Boehme
Orthodox: Dostoyevski, Palamas

Eckhart?? Shestov? Solovyov?

[Anonymous No.22341314]

Explain how this isn't just like Superman vs Goku debates

[Anonymous No.22341316]

>>22341306
First of all, the rule of st. Benedict is about communal life, not hermiticsm and living in the wilderness like they were doing in Egypt, so I don't know why you keep going on about him. Secondly, Catholic monks now do intellectual exercise more than physical exercise, so once again it's entirely irrelevant to the topic. Catholics are not following the tradition in the book, it's entirely off-topic to talk about them.

[Anonymous No.22341317]

>>22341313
You're an idiot

[Anonymous No.22341318]

>>22341197
Post a nice passage

[Anonymous No.22341323]

>>22341318
>post an exerpt
>post a tweet about it
>post a tiktok video
No. You and the other zoomers ITT need to go back.

[Anonymous No.22341326]

>>22341314
God is real.
>but I can't find him
And you don't look because you love your sin.

God literally promises to reveal himself to those who diligently search with all their heart to find him. I took him up on that and I found him. I was never raised in any faith, went to state schools being indoctrinated into the state religion of atheistic naturalism; but that's not even scientifically possible within its own world view, it's stupid.

[Anonymous No.22341328]

But Lutheranism has Boehme and Hegel...

[Anonymous No.22341334]

>>22341323
Insufferable cunt lmao
And this fag expects me to believe he "found" God.

[Anonymous No.22341342]

>>22341316
The desert fathers soon built monasteries only the initial ones were full on hermits. Anyways there are hermits in the Catholic Church too, but most monks live in some sort of community including the Orthodox ones.

[Anonymous No.22341344]

>>22341334
I'm not the anti-evolution guy, I'm sorry if 4chan confuses you newfag

[Anonymous No.22341348]

>>22341342
It's enough to visit a Catholic and an Orthodox monastery to see the truth.

[Anonymous No.22341353]

>>22341344
Been here longer than you've been alive, zoomie.

[Anonymous No.22341356]

>>22341348
It’s enough to read St. Maximus the Confessor to see the truth.

OHNONONONNONONONONO

>How much more in the case of the clergy and Church of the Romans, which from old until now, as the elder of all the Churches which are under the sun, presides over all? Having surely received this canonically, as well from councils and apostles, as from the princes of the latter [Peter & Paul], and being numbered in their company, she is subject to no writings or issues of synodical documents, on account of the eminence of her pontificate, even as in all these things all are equally subject to her according to sacerdotal law.

>For the very ends of the earth and those in every part of the world who purely and rightly confess the Lord, look directly to the most holy Church of the Romans and its confession and faith as though it were a sun of unfailing light, expecting from it the illuminating splendour of the Fathers and sacred dogmas…For ever since the Incarnate Word of God came down to us, all the churches of Christians everywhere have held that greatest Church there to be their sole base and foundation, since on the one hand, it is in no way overcome by the gates of Hades, according to the very promise of the Saviour , but holds the keys of the orthodox confession and faith in him and opens the only true and real religion to those who approach with godliness, and on the other hand, it shuts up and locks every heretical mouth that speaks unrighteousness against the most High.

[Anonymous No.22341359]

>>22341353
If you had been here longer than a few months you'd know about the 1 minute timer.
>>22341356
It says nothing about monastic life, which is the topic of the thread.

[Anonymous No.22341380]

>>22341317
Why :(

[Anonymous No.22341406]

>>22341380
For assuming all traditions think of literary works in the same way. The Orthodox generally discourage philosophy and other Western endeavours. They'd tell you to read the Philokalia. Solvyov was heterodox, Shestov was not Orthodox, and your understanding of all of it is worse than nothing since you think 19th/20th century Russia is representative of anything.

[Anonymous No.22341421]

>>22341238
Carthusians and Camaldolese are more ascetic than any Ortho monastery althougheverbeitthough
There are also eastern Catholics who have the same monastic life as their Orthodox counterparts

[Anonymous No.22341432]

>>22341421
These orders barely exist
>As of May 2022 there are 21 extant charterhouses, 16 for monks and 5 for nuns, indicated by bold type
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Carthusian_monasteries

Catholicism is just an endless cope about not being orthodox.

[Anonymous No.22341450]

>>22341432
They exist, though. And there's nothing you can do about it. Catholic is the one true Christianity.

[Anonymous No.22341464]

>>22341450
They exist and are most likely crap. Meanwhile, you go to any Orthodox monastery and you'll find at least one saint. You go to Mt. Athos and you'll find the Holy Spirit talking through people.
>Catholic is the one true Christianity.
https://youtu.be/7o7UGLTauHI

[Anonymous No.22341475]

>>22341406
But I just listed cool people (Bach is there) that identified themselves to each Christian tradition.
>solovyov was heterodox
Solovyov apostatized from Orthodoxy then returned to it, then his Sophiology tried to reconcile itself with it. Thus the question mark after his name.
Same for Shestov, question mark, I didn’t say he was Orthodox.
I haven’t touched a single book on christian matter for ages, you e- christians are insufferably pedantic and dumb. I’m glad I literally don’t care about much of this stuff anymore.

[Anonymous No.22341477]

>>22341197
You should listen to a talk by Father Cassian Folsom

[Anonymous No.22341481]

>>22341464
>They don't exist lol
>Okay they exist but they aren't as big as I would like (size queen)
>Okay but the Holy Spirit talks though them so the party is better (trust me bro)
Keep moving the goal posts, fag.

[Anonymous No.22341486]

>>22341481
Catholic monks in the tradition of the Desert Fathers don't exist, never have. Sorry you're illiterate, but we already established this from the beginning.

[Anonymous No.22341491]

>>22341486
We established that they exist and you only whine about size because you're a size queen.

[Anonymous No.22341498]

It's fun to see Eastern "Orthodox" and Papists arguing.

[Anonymous No.22341504]

>>22341491
Those orders have nothing to do with the desert fathers only perhaps in your head and in Catholic fantasies but definitely not in real life

[Anonymous No.22341519]

>>22341486
Please, define for us, what is the tradition of the desert fathers to which Mt. Athos is included but not Grande Chartreuse? Where is the desert tradition today in the Eastern Churches?

[Anonymous No.22341634]

>>22341519
>what is the tradition of the desert fathers to which Mt. Athos is included but not Grande Chartreuse
Not listening to a fraudulent bishop for starters, not secularizing the church with profane philosophy, not venerating heretics, the entire spirit of the Catholic "Church" is foreign to anything authentically Christian from the early centuries. You can't patch something fundamentally wrong, real life is not pagan philosophy

[Anonymous No.22341663]

>>22341238
Primitive carmelites?

[Anonymous No.22341760]

>>22341228
Modern westoids are so high on hormones they think goyslop is actual Christian tradition

[Anonymous No.22341770]

>>22341760
>literature is goyslop now
Go back

[Anonymous No.22341787]

>>22341770
Existentialism is goyslop for depressed fags like yourself yes

[Anonymous No.22341816]

>>22341197
>The fact that Islam has this book automatically puts it at the very top in terms of literary output. Augustine, Dante, etc. don't compare to this actual spiritual masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.22341871]

>>22341634
You do realize that the desert tradition is older than Constantinople, right?

[Anonymous No.22341878]

>>22341871
And?

[Anonymous No.22341882]

>>22341787
rational theology is nihilistic

[Anonymous No.22342565]

>>22341197
The Desert Fathers were not Orthodox or Catholic. They existed before the Imperial church was established and influenced both early development.

[Anonymous No.22342583]

>>22341498
They're the only two worth listening on the subject

[Anonymous No.22342590]

>>22342565
In your timelines when exactly is the delineation line between the early church and the imperial church?

[Anonymous No.22342602]

>>22342590
Constantine. But more solidified with Constantius II

[Anonymous No.22342625]

>>22342602
Have considered the Biblical canon collected as you know it was put together by the same imperial Church right? Now I'm not arguing that there aren't doctrinal issues to debate regarding the Church, but your assessment seems trivial.

[Anonymous No.22342638]

>>22342625
>Have considered the Biblical canon collected as you know it was put together by the same imperial Church right?
I know that.
>but your assessment seems trivial.
I think it's rather stupid to attribute the Desert fathers as being Orthodox considering any conception of the Orthodox church either did not exist or had just came into being. That would also be ignoring that they influenced nearly all Christians regardless and are not uniquely 'Orthodox'

[Anonymous No.22342668]

>>22341348
Backpedaling LARPer! You have been proven wrong multiple times and keep arguing. Now go listen to what the CIA head bishop of your church has to say.

[Anonymous No.22342683]

>>22341200
Its just an edgelord's revenge fantasy

[Anonymous No.22342876]

>>22341197
we are called to asceticism. whether we are monastics or layman. hesychasm is the heart of Orthodoxy.

[Anonymous No.22342914]

>>22341326
NTA, but he has a point. Personally I'm Catholic, but I think the fighting between Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and Protestants is just stupid hair-splitting. For example, I can appreciate that Orthodox Christians also believe in Purgatory, and share the vast majority of theological views. I can also appreciate that Protestants who came to colonize America in the 17th century, though they were thousands of miles and an entire ocean away from Rome, decided to keep studying the Bible and to do their best keeping basic church traditions on a local level, even if they weren't a part of the Roman Catholic Church and lived in some rural countryside on the other side of the world.

I can also appreciate that the King James Bible, while missing a few books, is the most important piece of literature ever written.

OP needs to stop flinging shit at Catholics and focus on the real problem at hand--rampant secular materialists and rugged individualists.

[Anonymous No.22342963]

>>22341197
What makes this group of religious retards different to every other group of religious retards?
Organised religion is a farce.

[Anonymous No.22342972]

>>22341326
Liar. Kys troon.

[Anonymous No.22343232]

>>22342565
>The Desert Fathers were not Orthodox or Catholic.
They were Orthodox.
> Imperial church
Protestant made up crap, doesn't exist in Orthodoxy.
>>22342638
>any conception of the Orthodox church either did not exist or had just came into being
It did. Orthodox Church is the Church that has direct continuation with the Apostles and didn't change anything. No other Church has these: Protestants have no continuation with anything, Catholics changed things.
>>22342914
>OP needs to stop flinging shit at Catholics and focus on the real problem at hand--rampant secular materialists and rugged individualists.
These are both Catholic and Protestant-derived issues. The cause of it all IS your doing. You're an idiot and ecumenism has been rejected by Orthodoxy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-RdNeKlFs8

[Anonymous No.22343249]

>>22341481
kek

[Anonymous No.22343262]

>>22343232
>focus on the real problem at hand--rampant secular materialists and rugged individualists
>These are both Catholic and Protestant-derived issues. The cause of it all IS your doing.
Patriarch Kirill is a literal government stooge

[Anonymous No.22343264]

>>22341326
Reading comprehension—as expected from a follower of paganism.

[Anonymous No.22343271]

>>22343262
>Patriarch Kirill is a literal government stooge
Irrelevant, you're too stupid to even understand the problem let alone the cause. No patriarch created secularism, your entire ideology and perversion of Christianity for 1000 years created secularism.

[Anonymous No.22343285]

>could have been a cool thread about ascetic writings
>ends up just being an Orthodox guy trying to argue that monks outside of his denomination don't exist or aren't TRUE and HONEST monks

[Anonymous No.22343287]

>>22343285
Try r/Christianity and don't expect ecumenism in an Orthodox thread next time newfag.

[Anonymous No.22343578]

>>22343232
based vid mate, if you want to go deeper on ecumenism try lookin up sotiropoulos, try not getting into any schisms tho and stay orthodox

[Anonymous No.22343630]

>>22343285
>I want a "cool thread about ascetic writings" who cares about the truth
The puer aeternus brain trying to understand anything that is not Hollywood friendly

[Anonymous No.22343920]

>>22343630
They weren't orthodox. They were old men weeping in caves.

[Anonymous No.22343922]

>>22341313
>no Philokalia

[Anonymous No.22344151]

Orhtholarpers are more insufferable than /pol/acks, that is if they are not even the same people. They act the same in every thread without fail

[Anonymous No.22344178]

>>22341252
>slept 2 hours a night

You guys need to stop confusing ancient autists with spiritual leaders

[Anonymous No.22344197]

>>22341197
>thinking that sandnigger worshippers have any value
cake double u, grow up and stop believing in (bad) fairytales. youre being more cringe than harry potter fans.

[Anonymous No.22344268]

>>22344151
>>22344178
>>22344197
Reddit

[Anonymous No.22344288]

chatgpt thread

[Anonymous No.22345267]

>>22341197
God doesn't live in the desert, only lizards and scorpions. No wisdom ever came from there. That was Satan talking to you.

[Anonymous No.22345300]

>>22341274
You have to be 18+ to post.

[Anonymous No.22345318]

>>22341200
Paradise Lost is better than the Divine Comedy.

[Anonymous No.22345728]

>>22345267
>>22345300

[Anonymous No.22346152]

>>22343232
>Catholics changed things.
Literally every Ecumenical council changed things you idiot. Do you think the Cult of Icons existed in the Early Church?

[Anonymous No.22346321]

>>22346152
>Literally every Ecumenical council changed things you idiot.
They never changed anything.
> Do you think the Cult of Icons existed in the Early Church?
Absolutely yes

[Anonymous No.22346384]

>>22343271
>My CIA religion is better!
Just admit you got memed by youtube videos bro

[Anonymous No.22346426]

>>22346384
See >>22344268

[Anonymous No.22346466]

>>22346152
>>22346321
>the Early Church
This is the problem. The changes come when you found a church. The faith, the grassroots cult that it was was altered to try and make sense of it. Failing miserably the first dozen times, we have this nonsense religion with a million forking paths.

[Anonymous No.22346471]

>>22346466
Stop posting idiot

[Anonymous No.22346472]

>>22346466
There's only one path: Orthodoxy.

[Anonymous No.22346539]

>>22346471
>Stop exposing the evils of state corrupted religion!
No. We found all this out ages ago. Why we had deism and an Enlightenment.
>>22346472
You misspelled “Gnosticism”! Joking though. That’s not even a reasonable path, it’s just closer to the original “path”

[Anonymous No.22346542]

>>22346539

[Anonymous No.22346556]

>>22346542
Seriously don’t know what this is even trying to say
Save your ugly.jpg. You aren’t shaming me or anyone out of knowing the truth.

[Anonymous No.22346558]

>>22346556
You'll know when you grow up

[Anonymous No.22346561]

>>22346558
>Santa IS real! You’ll find out! You’ll find out wen it’s 2 late!!!

[Anonymous No.22347189]

>>22341197
Based, read a little and it slaps

[Anonymous No.22347192]

>>22341228
Midwit book. Favorite of undergrad pseud.

[Anonymous No.22348539]

>>22341197
As a Christian, lot of these sayings are hogwash. Supposedly they were out slaying mythical beasts with prayer?

[Anonymous No.22348634]

>>22346152
Depends what you mean by change. If growth is change, then yes, things changed. But usually in the context of these conversations when people say "change" it's a pejorative term referring to contradicting the past or adding something in that didn't exist in the past.

[Anonymous No.22348645]

>>22345318
Nta but I’m a Catholic and I’m astounded by how good milton is. While we have Joyce I must recognize that you anglos knew how to fucking write. Shakespeare, Spenser, Milton, and those are just the poets. Credit where credit is due

[Anonymous No.22349059]

>no I'M the real cuck who prostrates himself before a false desert god
Yawn.